Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon
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Gonna throw it out here before the next chapters throw new curveballs: Imu is definitely a kid.
1.) If he has been alive since the Void Century via the Ope Ope's Eternal Youth Operation, like most people theorize, what better way to show a person that hasn't aged than a kid?
2.) Adding to this, the Sugar parallel where she stopped growing after gaining her powers that are related to erasing people's identity and memories (Void Century). Also, her outfit with the distinct golden crown is something to consider.
3.) A kid ruling over a council of geezers is the kind of striking contrast that I would expect from Oda and that, presented in a certain way, might even make them look like his babysitters (lmao)
4.) If Imu is going to be fully revealed now, in the next 2-3 chapters, I was pondering why didn't Oda do it before, in 1060 with the Lulusia stuff? What needed to happen in the last 25 chapters before Imu's appearance could be revealed?
The answer is the Seraphims: the religious parallels that also feed into Devil Fruits, Lili (Lilith?), Adam and Eve tree, Guardians of Eden, being programmed to be literal slaves of the Gorosei (and by extension Imu), and most importantly, the heavy emphasis on them being kids, which would link them more to Cherubims. But what if the Cherub is already represented by Imu?
5.) The possible parallels with Akira (without spoiling anything huge about Akira):
Oda has referenced having read Akira as a young kid a few times (like when talking about the pronouns the characters use) so I wouldn't be surprised if he was influenced by it in some way.
6.) Almost forgot: Luffy's secret dream being something that is deemed childish even for other kids. Roger was chastised by Whitebeard for the same reason. Imu would be the warped accomplishment of a kid with the same dream.
Let's see how this develops over the next few chapters, but at this point I would need heavy convincing on an alternative to this.
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@Goukan said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
4.) If Imu is going to be fully revealed now, in the next 2-3 chapters, I was pondering why didn't Oda do it before, in 1060 with the Lulusia stuff? What needed to happen in the last 25 chapters before Imu's appearance could be revealed?
Oda sometimes keeps a mystery for the sake of keeping the mystery. Kinda like Kuzan being the 10th captain was obvious for so long we started discarding that idea because the reveal wouldn't be that impactful.
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I think Im is probably a creature with unimaginable power who needs to possess someone for a new body after a certain amount of time has passed, I think in whatever war happened 800 years ago, the 20 royal families decided to unite under Im for morally grey reasons l, and were supposed to live out the rest of there lives in the holy land with Im, but Lili decided to go back and with the dangerous knowledge she possessed the other 19 Kings/Queen turned against her and had Im posses her
I also think the posters we saw Im have of Luffy, Black Beard, Shiroshi and Vivi was him deciding who to posses next, and he choose Vivi because she is most compatible with the body he has now of her ancestor
Also maybe the vision of Luffy destroying fishman island wasn’t him but a possessed version of Luffy
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This is the 6th chapter away from Egghead, and there's at least next one to still cover this flashback. This means Volume 107 (probably covering 1077-1086) is stuff unrelated to Egghead piling up on one another.
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I expected more from Sabo/Bonney meeting. Maybe the reveal that they knew each other from the Revolutionaries? Sabo worked with her dad for many years, after all. This "Hi/bye" meeting was bland.
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Queen Lily's reveal is interesting.
I have a feeling she was the first person that Imu erased, but since the Nefertari dynasty kept existing, her name was still known by them.
Could she have anything to do with the origins of the Kuja? Amazon "Lily", King "Cobra"...
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Sai was always my favorite Grand Fleet captain, and he keeps being the chadiest chad that ever chaddied. He has a cool "Don" title, gets the girl, and kicks Celestial Dragons.
Mjosgard deserves mention as well. I want to see more of him.
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But where does this even lead? I think this may be the reason why the Grand Fleet will be able to reach Egghead in time. Maybe Fujitora (last seen in Ch 957) has been tasked with capturing Sai and Leo? Maybe the Grand Fleet had decided to rendezvous with Luffy's Vivre Card?
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And Imu reveals himself to Cobra.
In last year's Jump Festa, Oda teased he was eager to tell us the story of the Void Century.
Could this be next chapter's great reveal?
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I'm just so happy we're seeing all of this. After we left the Reverie initially and Wano started I strongly believed we'd get back to it, but it had been so long and more and more of it was just revealed as part of the dialogue that I had just lost hope.
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@Goukan That might explain why Imu is roughly the same height as the sword in the Chamber of Flowers, but that same chapter also shows that the throne room's guard rails are roughly waist-high on Imu - which suggests they're about comparable height to the Five Elders.
Although it's always hard to tell with One Piece given how humans can simply be gigantic. It can really be any combination of child-sized person/normal-sized chair, normal-sized person/giant chair, or giant child/giant-sized chair.
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My current theory is that Imu is Uranus (if it's a person) or the person able to command Uranus (if it's something else).
Imu betrayed Joyboy, Poseidon and the other races after they vanquished the Ancient Evil of the Void Century. He then convinced the 20 kings to support him, and together they managed to usurp the Ancient Evil's throne, now called the Empty Throne.
Imu was seen analyzing four portraits: Luffy's, Teach's, Shirahoshi's, and Vivi's. Those are the inheritors of Joyboy, the Ancient Evil, Poseidon and the new Uranus. Vivi, thus, is the one that can nullify Imu's power, and thus she's the "Light to be Extinguished". Vivi bringing rain to Alabasta was her power manifesting (the story hinted it was Smoker's doing, but he denied that to Hina).
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My theory is that Imu looks like Lord Farquad.
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@Cyan-D-Funk said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
My theory is that Imu looks like Lord Farquad.
You know this might be the better option actually
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@cavendishsama said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
I'm just so happy we're seeing all of this. After we left the Reverie initially and Wano started I strongly believed we'd get back to it, but it had been so long and more and more of it was just revealed as part of the dialogue that I had just lost hope.
Can’t even imagine why Oda would suddenly abandon something he spent so long building up on. Would be weird to think he suddenly stopped caring. lol
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@electricmastro Well, that's what I thought, but whenever I thought it would be a good time for the Reverie (Act 1 intermission, Act 2 intermission, Post raid chapters, post wano chapters), we didn't get it, so I thought that was just it.
We'll see how it reads when it's all said and done, and right now I really couldn't care less, I'm just enjoying it, but for example we had been told twice already that the Revos clashed with the Admirals and rescued Kuma, so can you blame me for thinking we'll not actually see it? -
@last-exit-to-laughtale said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
@Goukan That might explain why Imu is roughly the same height as the sword in the Chamber of Flowers, but that same chapter also shows that the throne room's guard rails are roughly waist-high on Imu - which suggests they're about comparable height to the Five Elders.
Although it's always hard to tell with One Piece given how humans can simply be gigantic. It can really be any combination of child-sized person/normal-sized chair, normal-sized person/giant chair, or giant child/giant-sized chair.
It could be an optical illusion caused by Im's crown. It makes them look a lot taller than they are and some shots make it ambiguous where the head is supposed to start.
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Ah, so a big reason Luffy and others have a D. initial is because of Lily, huh?
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Either Imu is Lily or he was in love with Lily.
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Not going to try guesisng s Imu's height considering how inconsistent size can be in the series, but I don't get the feeling that they are very imposing.
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[Lost in translation] The mysterious Queen Lily is written as リリィ (Lili?) in the Japanese chapter. It is a slightly different spelling from リリー as in Amazon Lily and Lily Carnation (Baron Omatsuri film), so they may have no connections.
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@King-Cannon Perhaps, but I personally don't feel that shots like these:
are all that ambiguous in term's of Imu's general height when it comes to the guard rails, even when accounting for the crown. Unless the rails at the bottom of the steps are significantly larger than the ones at the top and the whole thing room an optical illusion, but I'm sticking with it just being a really big throne.
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I'm with Deicide in this one: if this is all there is to Bonney going to Mariejoi she could be cut off it completely and nothing would change. Complete dead weight fifth-wheeIing her way to the series' screentime. I hope there's something else, but when Oda shows us that she was left OUTSIDE of the Castle by Sabo I think he's done with her.
I didn't make any connection between Queen Lily and Amazon Lily before reading the community pointing it out, the first patch of land that came to my head was God's Valley. It is a place deep conected with the pirate side of the show, it is conviniently erased from maps and such and it is known to have Celestial Dragons in the area. I think it fits! And it would be a way to start to stitch the seemingly divergent streamways of storyline that populates current One Piece (the Rev drama runs paralel to the Pirate King Race rn).
Imu gave the impression of being a child this chapter. I'm not a fan of Powerful Children being inserted in the plot because they either doesn't really have an agency (Akira) or they are just senseless children that are guided by the protags to Do the Right Thing (Owl's House) and I don't think either are interesting narrative choices. I also think that both choices would contrast way too much with Imu's looming appearances up until now, so I hope we have either a Farquaad situation (as people pointed out) or it's just Oda's messed up perspective tricking us all.
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One indicator that Im is a woman is that thing Oda in fact did not silhouette this chapter (worn on the head under the crown): it really reminded me of a mourning cap, like the one of Queen Victoria.
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@last-exit-to-laughtale said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
@King-Cannon Perhaps, but I personally don't feel that shots like these:
are all that ambiguous in term's of Imu's general height when it comes to the guard rails, even when accounting for the crown. Unless the rails at the bottom of the steps are significantly larger than the ones at the top and the whole thing room an optical illusion, but I'm sticking with it just being a really big throne.
It's worth noting that Im's crown was a lot smaller in their debut in 906, so it could be that Oda hadn't all the kinks of the design figured yet.
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@electricmastro said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
Ah, so a big reason Luffy and others have a D. initial is because of Lily, huh?
I'm not sure how you got that from what Cobra said.
She had a letter about those that carry the name of "D", she must have had some insight regarding them for future rulers of Alabasta and that Poneglyph -
I think there's some strong symbolism with Im being akin to a flower, considering their room and all the butterflies surrounding them. And lilies are flowers.
I do think Im and Lily are the same person. The 20th weapon possibly being Im's saber totally feels like one of those unassuming details Oda inserts in his story that actually turn out to be very relevant.
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good chapter
flashbacks are most interesting, egghead can wait another month or two
the most important part of the conversation was cut off ( Lili's message ) but why ? we're already in a flashback there is no need to visit it twice just wrap it now and move on
this mystery must be revealed next chapter or it's gonna be years of waiting before we see another lore drop
anyways i hope Cobra says something that drives them mad before he's murdered
you know something like you goons are not much different than pirates who tried to usurp my kingdom
because I'm convinced 100% that Imu gained her power & authority in a similar way of that of Orochi through everything that is low and immoral
more flashbacks!!
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Any chance off Oda finally revealing stuff about the D clan? I'll take any crumb Cobra has
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@wolfwood He reveals people with the Will of D have a transformation akin to Super Saiyan :P
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Turns out the D was a mistake when the doctor dropped a noodle on the birth certificate.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but both リリィ and リリー would be romanized as "ririi"?
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One more thing guys. What do you think about the smacking of Carlos? Luffy did it long ago and Daint Carlos didnt change one bit = aka what good was that smacking for? What did Luffy achieve with it in terms of influencing Carlos or teaching him a lesson? How come this simingly oddinary person was ok after a hit like that?
The reason I ask is because now Sai pued a hit that should be able to split continent, Leo also hammered him. Since no one died....again I ask you. A normal human lives through this?
Cartoony effects aside.... what will it achieve? What consequences will Carlis vare? Is he now in a wheelchair? Cause I mean if not.... again... what was the point other than it ft good for Sai and Leo....I know Oda is doing it for the fanart factorvand cause we all wanna see this dude smacked around but IMO there should be some consequences not just joke like swollen face and alike
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@Scabbard-Avenger said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
it really reminded me of a mourning cap, like the one of Queen Victoria.
I thought this too. The panel where Im says "Lily" and this panel from 906 suggest that Im is wearing some sort of transparent veil.
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@LightningAce said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
@electricmastro said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
Ah, so a big reason Luffy and others have a D. initial is because of Lily, huh?
I'm not sure how you got that from what Cobra said.
Well he said Lily passed down the letter after asking what the letter D meant, so obviously Lily would have to be a big player in all this somehow.
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Nice color spread of the ladies. Surprisingly tame after seeing so many Egghead butt shots. Surprised Pudding got left out.
Call me pessimistic, but this is 0 for 2 on chapters for the Reverie Flashback for me. Very little moves forward with it and what we got feels pretty unnecessary.
Bonney whole existence in this plot just ended up being an entire revolving doorway. Yeah, she was here and prepared to deal with things herself, but as soon as the convenient Revolutionary attack happens, she switches gears to "You guys got this, I'll move on to getting his brain back!"
She really should've been the one to cause chaos on Charlos and people present to help save her father. Then Morley comes in to grab him and she can have her moment to leave then. Sai and Leo were always about the bottom of the Grand Fleet leaders for me, so I'd have no issue giving up their moment in favor of Bonney actually doing something. Bonney has a history of getting away, but Sai and Leo getting away from this just seems obnoxiously stupid.
Sabo only goes back inside because apparently some guards are stupid enough to talk about their personal boogy man story about "vanishing guards who saw the Phantom/Lost room." Why have this Bonney/Sabo interaction happen at all? It would've been way better to see Sabo spot or hear about Cobra's special meeting and choose to sneak in because of that.
The whole Cobra talk into Imu joining didn't really get far enough to have anything to say about it. Maybe next chapter we'll finally get something of value out of this flashback.
I don't know, it's just not doing anything for me yet. To each their own.
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Yeah, even without this being a flashback you can tell Cobra is about to die. A hidden man reveals himself and reveals that he sits on the symbolic throne meant for no one. He's revealing everything, which means that one man isn't leaving this room alive.
With all that in mind, next chapter will be interesting assuming that we stay here. Imu clearly is paying attention to Cobra, and might be willing to talk. We could get a lot of lore and facts about the world coming up.
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@sandman I was talking about this in the spoiler thread the other day, but I don't know enough about Japanese culture to try and grasp the significance of it, but any ideas why Oda chose such an unusual spelling?
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Ulti feels like an odd choice to be on the color spread with the others.
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That is a powerful Jump cover this week, Luffy is looking damn good. And then on the flip side we have a very fanservice-y colour spread. We say 'fanservice,' but really these things seem to be authorservice as much as anything else. Oda draws like he's just discovered that the t shirt and bikini bottom combo holds a different appeal to him than just a regular bikini pic and has decided he's going to explore every angle of the idea (and the actual canon Egghead outfits back that up). There's some nice details in here - Carrot riding a Napoleon tube, Bonney trying to eat the giant koi, Perona's Kumacy shirt, the tab on the end of Ulti's club suggesting the got an inflatable version just to take to the pool.
But there's also Yamato. Sigh. Look, I think at this stage Yamato in Oda's mind is just a man and a woman all at once, as the scene requires. I don't really want to talk pronouns again, but here we go. There aren't and will never be official pronouns for Yamato as English-speakers understand the term. Because casual Japanese language mostly uses neutral second and third-person pronouns (equivalents being 'you,' 'they,' 'that person,' just calling them by name, etc) and has most of the gendering happen via first-person pronouns (so masculine and feminine forms of 'I,' 'me,' 'myself,' etc), it isn't the same social faux pas to refer to someone with the wrong gender in part because it's much harder to do. And the first-person pronouns are taken as more of a masculine or feminine flair rather than the definitive statement of gender English third-person pronouns are, and will often shift based on the mood and formality of the conversation as well. So the Vivre Card didn't "confirm" anything except the biological bits we can all see because it wouldn't occur to a Japanese-speaking author to correct a form of reference that doesn't really exist in his language. Unfortunately, Yamato's mode of speech doesn't confirm one thing or another either, because of the flexibility outlined above. Deciding how to refer to a character like Yamato, or anyone fully androgynous or with a tendency to cross-dress becomes less about translation and more about adaptation because the cultural and social ways gender is expressed and how those expressions are taken just don't line up 1:1. Oda hasn't made Yamato a he/him or a she/her or even a they/them, so we have to look at how the character acts and what they say and how others respond to them and decide what the best fit for that is in our own framework. And to me, Yamato in the story (particularly the bath scene) screams someone who wants to be viewed as firmly masculine. Maybe a retranslation with the benefit of hindsight could go back over everything and play Yamato in more of a nonbinary/genderfluid/bigender way that gels better with these noncanon depictions of them as one of the girls, but in the version we have, the in-story Yamato reads male.
With that out of the way, I think we go over a decent bit of familiar ground this week, re-establishing the 20 royal families and the founding of the World Government. I'm getting my hopes up that Oda is trying to remind casual readers of the full context they'll need for some big impending reveals.
Sabo and Bonney is a fun little teamup for as long as it lasts. It's fun seeing characters discover mutual connections like Kuma in such a large world. It's a shame they seem to part ways before the Cobra incident though, so we probably won't have news of that making it to the group on Egghead. The Lost Chamber is a tantalising tease to namedrop here. I imagine it's just Imu's little garden though. The frozen Strawhat is in a massive fault deep underground, far more than a chamber and way too grand and unconcealable to be a lost.
While a lot of people say to new readers to stick with One Piece til Arlong Park for it to get good - and they're close to the mark - I think the point where One Piece truly becomes One Piece is Alabasta. For that reason it warms my heart to see the Nefeltaris become so instrumental to the series big mysteries and impending endgame. The web of relations between Lily, Imu and the D is going to be speculated in circles until the final reveals. The idea of a letter being passed down makes me think of Joyboy's apology message at Fishman Island. Are they connected? Is one a reply to the other? And we have to consider that Toki will likely have some major role to play when it all comes to light as well.
Making the Nefeltaris key to it all only redoubles my conviction that if there is to be a final crewmate (and I don't think there has to be one) it'll be Vivi. Plot relevance and established presence are key at this stage of the story.
The Charloss beatdown and Kuma rescue are satisfying moments, but there's not much to say or speculate about them as we've seen the fallout to both already. Mjosguard's promise to take responsibility works out and Sai and Leo's choice to go pirate insulate their nations from any residual consequences. The phrase 'attempted murder' in the chapter title and the newspapers way back when this happened let us know Charloss is okay. A gap in which we didn't know the exact players and actions has been filled in, but it's unremarkable in the grand scheme.
And we end on Imu. From context we could already guess they were a top-secret presence, and the guards talking earlier in the chapter confirms what happens to people who get a glimpse of them. I like the detail of them listening in from their secret room as well. Makes sense they'd be monitoring the whole Pangea Castle.
As for their identity... I'm not totally sold on the idea of it being Lily, but it's not off the table either. The twentieth sword and actual flower lilies in their secret room (though the sword i absent in this chapter and lacked the decay of the others surrounding the throne when seen in chapter 908) could be read either way as echoes of a former life or mementos of a past love, or perhaps even as trophies from a vanquished foe. Was Lily the only of the original royal families willing to speak against the hypocrisy or cruelty or corruption or whatever of the fledgling World Government, taken down before she could share the truth? There's not much we can fully rule out at this stage but it's so exciting to be edging closer to real answers every week.
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One reason why I certainly don't want Imu to be Lily is character design. Like Lily clearly looked like Vivi and of course people can change over the course of 800 years, but with Oda's track record I would still say that there is a good chance she's just another Nami clone with funky eyes, and that'd be disappointing for such a major character.
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@cavendishsama said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
One reason why I certainly don't want Imu to be Lily is character design. Like Lily clearly looked like Vivi and of course people can change over the course of 800 years, but with Oda's track record I would still say that there is a good chance she's just another Nami clone with funky eyes, and that'd be disappointing for such a major character.
I would say Lily's sillhouette that we see in this chapter does seem rather eerie. A creepy looking Vivi lookalike would be thematically interesting, at least for me.
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@Captain-M said in Chapter 1084: The Attempted Murder of a Celestial Dragon:
actual flower lilies in their secret room
Those flowers don't look anything like lilies, which have incredibly noticeable and exposed stigma and styles along with petals that curve backwards. The flowers we see in the "lost chamber" are far more cup shape, sort of like Canterbury Bells or Morning Glory. If they're meant to be lilies, than Oda's doing a really bad job here because he can't rely on color to carry the slack.
I don't think the flowers have any real meaning besides helping create a contrast between the peaceful and gentle innocence of the room and the darker, more violent tendencies of Imu.
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@Bugs You might be right, flowers aren't exactly my area of interest haha. Image results showing lilies with their bells mostly closed have kind of a resemblance, but not when they're blooming properly. I should have looked closer.
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Does anyone else note the extreme irony that Im, the King of the World, has no personal freedom at all? They can't reveal their identity to the world, so they've been in the same exact room for over 800 years.
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Im being Lily is too simple, yet at the moment it's the most possible scenario
I still think Oda could have a curve ball, hoping that it isn't a love story, or even worse a triangle love story
Not because it's a bad narrative device per se, but because it feels very bad to have 8 centuries of oppression and innocents dying over a love affairSo, I prefer that the history is about cultural clash, eventually between people like Shandians coming from another place
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Some people says that Bonney was shown in Marijoa for nothing but maybe she will be used as the tie for what will happen in Egghead next since she knows what the revolutionaries did and can explain it to the Strawhats
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@Johnny-B-Decent It's a worthy sacrifice compared to the danger that the space bunnies pose to the world.
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Not sure if it was mentioned before, but a thought just came to me.
What if Imu got the eternal youth surgery as a punishment and the reason of why the World Government wants the fruit again, is that Imu wants to age and die.
Of course this wouldn't fit the mysterious and ominous ruler Imu is portrayed as, but I'd like to believe that Imu has sort of a death wish, even the evil mastermind must get lonely after losing everyone they knew over their lifetime.
All that of can only be true if Imu is indeed from the void century or around the time the World Government was formed.Going back over the chapter, it was satisfying to see Charlos getting the Luffy treatment. Getting his spine and had crushed in. I do wonder how he survived?
Is it possible that the WG wants to cover up the death of a Celestial Dragon? Not that likely but not out of question, they always try to conceal what happens in reality.
Rescuing Kuma while he was after Shirahoshi was good to see, I think I was not the only one who thought that Charlos wouldn't give up after just one attempt to capture the Mermaid Princess.
Sabo's and Bonney's mutual connection in Kuma was nice to see in the chapter and their way of connecting, but I felt that Bonneys time was cut short, I hoped she would have stayed a bit longer with Sabo, but her goal, freeing Kuma was accomplished so she was no longer needed to be here.
Cobra's meeting with the 5 Elders did not go the way I expected, of course he would raise the D initial question, but I never thought he would see Imu in the flesh, because Imu went and sat down on the throne.
What I thought would happen, is that Cobra happened to see Imu sitting on the throne cause he went a head and went into the throne room without being let in. I know that would be out of character for him as he was portrayed in the story, but something along that line.
I hope we get to see a bit more of they interaction maybe the big reveal will happen in the next chapter.
But I do wonder how the picture of Sabo over Cobras body happened, will Cobra be allowed to leave, or was Sabo able to enter the throne room? -
Enjoyable chapter, but the Bonney part doesn't sit well with me. After coming so far and showing so much resolve in the quest for her father, it is baffling that she will just shrug off and leave without so much as seeing him or at least having confirmed that the revos have rescued him. Did she even need to be there in the first place ?
I am also not fond of Sabo princess-carrying her to safety when the guards come. She is from the Worst Gen, damn! From what we've seen so far Bonney is more than able to fend for herself, so this should at minimum earn him a prideful retort and elbow in the face. Something like "Who do you take me for?" or "Hands off, who do you think you are?".Other than this? The girl power cover is a delight, seeing Charlos get his just dessert is a huge satisfaction, and the Im part is promising as long as it doesn't get off-paneled next time. Looking forward it the next chapter, whenever it comes (I feel like we've been practically on a bi-weekly schedule for a couple months now, with all the breaks and holidays)
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I don't understand how Charlos is alive?!
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I think it would be highly disrespectful if any big reveal about the void century and related topics came to us without any involvement whatsoever of Robin.
Sabo just needs to know about Imu's existence and their interaction is what the next chapter should be about. He's the one up in arms directly against the WG so it fits with his story, but it would bother me if this Ace placeholder got to casually eavesdrop ancient secrets that a main character devoted her whole life to try to uncover with great sacrifices and sorrow.