Did you really just link the results from a single marathon? Not to mention that there's a difference of 14 fucking seconds. And why should we focus on how fast somebody can run a marathon when we live in a world where, as MK once so eloquently pointed out, we can soar through the sky using liquified dinosaur remains?
What does the fact that aeroplanes exist have to do with the comparison of 'strength' between males and females?
Same question I've asked myself. It's not like men in One Piece do fly and win wars by shooting canons. Big fights are decided by muscle, will and abilities, not a big gluteus maximus.
@TheCrystalShip:
So men who agree with us are now under some kind of hypnotic spell? You're treating this like it's a game of men vs. women, where people like Daz and MK are "traitors" to some mythical cause. We're not defined by our genders, we're just PEOPLE who happen to agree on this one point.
Did you really just link the results from a single marathon? Not to mention that there's a difference of 14 fucking seconds. And why should we focus on how fast somebody can run a marathon when we live in a world where, as MK once so eloquently pointed out, we can soar through the sky using liquified dinosaur remains?
Now what the hell are you talking about.
More like they keep repeating everything like they have no own opinion. It differes like 0% from DarkFalcon, but I've accept that already.
Those are at least four different marathons… and those are minutes not seconds. Shows way too much how much time you took to formulate that reply. :/ We've been talking about bodies and strength, reflexes etc. So we were talking about sports, not flying planes.
That was about Rogues' Gallery's first posts with body builder women. Just like bb men they were more than likely dehydrated, using tricks like oil or training of specific muscles to look that way. And just as with men, having showing six-packs like that is clearly unhealthy. Any real body builder will be able to tell you that, in 90+% of the time it's only for competition and promotion.
@choperman:
Schabrak doesn't believe in Big natural titties??
Not when the body has a fat percentage of 10-%. It's imply not possible, that's reality. You can't just chose to lose fat everywhere but on the breast. This is no argument, this is a clear fact, which every educated person will confirm.
Daz, it's one of the very possible reasons why he chose to not depict so many women in the marines, add to that that "men" are the standard and his total depiction of more men than women even within the citizens may explain the situation. Maybe it's just easier for him to draw so many crazy and different looking men. He has a bigger variation for them, that's quiet undeniable.
I feel the same way, but it's awesome to see other people stand up for what they're into.
Agreed. All love is good love
What does the fact that aeroplanes exist have to do with the comparison of 'strength' between males and females?
I… don't think you were around to understand the context of MK's statement. Or maybe you forgot.
He also talked about things like antibiotics. It had nothing to do with aeroplanes specifically.
Same question I've asked myself. It's not like men in One Piece do fly and win wars by shooting canons.
Aaannnd you actually believe that I'm talking about fighter planes and dogfights.
Big fights are decided by muscle, will and abilities, not a big gluteus maximus.
Quite right. Now tell me again how running a marathon translates to fighting prowess?
Or how any aspect of your argument translates to a world in which Devil Fruit powers exist and men can lift icebergs?
Those are at least four different marathons… and those are minutes not seconds. Shows way too much how much time you took to formulate that reply. :/ We've been talking about bodies and strength, reflexes etc. So we were talking about sports, not flying planes.
It's the same marathon over a number of years. I concede that the minutes thing is depressing.
That was about Rogues' Gallery's first posts with body builder women. Just like bb men they were more than likely dehydrated, using tricks like oil or training of specific muscles to look that way. And just as with men, having showing six-packs like that is clearly unhealthy. Any real body builder will be able to tell you that, in 90+% of the time it's only for competition and promotion.
So if it's just as "unnatural" for men as it is for women, as I've mentioned several times in this very thread, why are you bringing it up as part of your argument?
It seems humanity is stuck in this infinite loop with no escape. When it seems like you make progress, more problems arise. And those that cause it are those that try to fix. And without progress, we fall apart. it's like an unstoppable force vs an immovable object. Let's see who'll destroy us first. Those that try to fix the problem or those that do nothing about the problem. Maybe, just maybe, if everyone was willing to suffer for the future, then we might have a chance of escaping this infinite loop. I'm not. Screw you all.
Ocean Guide
"The ocean sees the beginning of the world,
and the ocean knows the end of the world.
Thus, it calls us towards the way we must take.
Thus, it leads us towards a proper world."
And just as with men, having showing six-packs like that is clearly unhealthy. Any real body builder will be able to tell you that, in 90+% of the time it's only for competition and promotion.
What do you mean by this exactly?
@•Ace•:
It seems humanity is stuck in this infinite loop with no escape. When it seems like you make progress, more problems arise. And those that cause it are those that try to fix. And without progress, we fall apart. I rather watch how things prog ggggggggggIIit's like an unstoppable force vs an immovable object. Let's see who'll destroy us first. Those that try to fix the problem or those that do nothing about the problem. Maybe, just maybe, if everyone was willing to suffer for the future, then we might have a chance of escaping this infinite loop. I'm not. Screw you all.
You're right Ace. I'm tired of having the same argument with the same people over and over again.
I'm going to let the "competent civil rights guys" like CCC and MK do all the work for me from now on. After all, somebody might actually listen to them.
@Jewelery:
What do you mean by this exactly?
When the six-pack is showing as in many of those pictures, it's actually an unealthy ammount of fat, too little fat, it's near a point of starvation, what's so hard to understand about that? You can have big enough mucles/abs that are showing, but in most cases it's because there is too little fat and a bit of muscle. Those pictures are often shown from times during a cut, when much water and fat is lost to make the muscle appear so big.
@TheCrystalShip:
text
I think it was pretty clear that I replied to the posts from page 160/161 without having read what's inbetween.
I disagree with your "solution" to equality. There's no solution, only a finish line.
When the six-pack is showing as in many of those pictures, it's actually an unealthy ammount of fat, too little fat, it's near a point of starvation, what's so hard to understand about that? You can have big enough mucles/abs that are showing, but in most cases it's because there is too little fat and a bit of muscle. Those pictures are often shown from times during a cut, when much water and fat is lost to make the muscle appear so big.
Um, yeah no. I'm pretty sure lots of those women have abs even when they're not cutting before a competition. With the strength they have their abs are gonna show at a higher percent body fat then the average person who has em.
I'm sure this is also going to rub people the wrong way. But as i understand it isn't it even more unhealthy for women to workout to those extremes?
I have this memory of it being taught to me that women should have a higher amount of body fat than men for health reasons.
I could just be talking out of my ass though, i'm sure one of you guys are up on this topic.
@ Schabrak, I want to see where you're coming from. Do you study something connected to biology or medicine or are you spots fan, who is interesting how body of sportsmen work?
Are you supporter of biological determinism?
I do not object to data you are providing, but you seem not to understand my initial stance. It may be problem of my ability to convey thought, since I don't know how to rephrase myself I'll live it at that at least temporally.
Pleas don't compare other people to likes of me - they may feel offended.
"I'm a bad guy! I don't save the day, I don't fly off to the sunset and I don't get the girl! I'm going home." - MegaMind
I'm sure this is also going to rub people the wrong way. But as i understand it isn't it even more unhealthy for women to workout to those extremes?
I have this memory of it being taught to me that women should have a higher amount of body fat than men for health reasons.
I could just be talking out of my ass though, i'm sure one of you guys are up on this topic.
No, not really. It would be the same effect for men. Abs show up at the same % body fat relative to the amount of necessary body fat they need. Example men's abs show up usually below 10% when 5% is the amount needed, and for women the amount necessary is 12% but there abs show up at like 17 - 19% I believe (not too sure on that one but it's close). Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to say though lol
I'm sure this is also going to rub people the wrong way. But as i understand it isn't it even more unhealthy for women to workout to those extremes?
I have this memory of it being taught to me that women should have a higher amount of body fat than men for health reasons.
I could just be talking out of my ass though, i'm sure one of you guys are up on this topic.
Women are already going to have a higher amount of body fat (on average) due to hormones. Everything is supposedly designed to protect the womb, whether you have a womb or not. For example, after 'mones, you may actually feel colder when it's cold out, because your blood brings warmth to the center of your body instead of to your extremities. Now, this can likely be counterbalanced by building up your fat reserves and allowing redistribution to happen like you're "supposed to". This doesn't really answer any of your questions, sorry. I'm not sure if it's any less healthy for women to bodybuild just because of these factors.
[http://www.shapeup.org/bfl/basics1.html
Based on current information, a woman must have a minimum percent body fat of 13-17% for regular menstruation. If a woman's percent body fat is too low, her periods may stop and she may experience infertility. Her menstrual irregularities may also compromise the health of her bones, normal hormonal function is necessary for bone health.](http://www.shapeup.org/bfl/basics1.html)
Nothing to see here.
Women are already going to have a higher amount of body fat (on average) due to hormones. Everything is supposedly designed to protect the womb, whether you have a womb or not. For example, after 'mones, you may actually feel colder when it's cold out, because your blood brings warmth to the center of your body instead of to your extremities. Now, this can likely be counterbalanced by building up your fat reserves and allowing redistribution to happen like you're "supposed to". This doesn't really answer any of your questions, sorry. I'm not sure if it's any less healthy for women to bodybuild just because of these factors.
Oh i'm sure they can bodybuild just fine. Was really just thinking of that extreme end of the spectrum.
But eh seems like it's answered itself
Oh i'm sure they can bodybuild just fine. Was really just thinking of that extreme end of the spectrum.
But eh seems like it's answered itself
There's healthy bodybuilding and unhealthy bodybuilding. Healthy is simply slowly building yourself up naturally through a balance of exercise and food. Unhealthy simply means that fools constantly put their body through extreme conditioning daily(eventually causing damage). This applies to both genders.
Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship
Daz, it's one of the very possible reasons why he chose to not depict so many women in the marines
Wooooooow
Just wow. You are saying that you could honestly see Oda doing this? As he sets out to draw background marine/pirate footsoldiers for his fantasy adventure pirate comic aimed at young boys, Oda makes the conscious consideration that he cannot draw any women, because they'd rationally have been scared off from this profession by the risk of rape
Am I the only one completely flabbergasted by this scenario? Or is it a natural thing to look at characters in this shonen manga, like Bellemere and Hina, and think "wow they're brave characters alright, becoming marines, officers no less, despite the overhanging threat of rape!"
Idunno, I just have a really hard time coupling "unspoken overhanging threat of rape for female soldiers/fighters" with "One Piece"
There's healthy bodybuilding and unhealthy bodybuilding. Healthy is simply slowly building yourself up naturally through a balance of exercise and food. Unhealthy simply means that fools constantly put their body through extreme conditioning daily(eventually causing damage). This applies to both genders.
Oo And most normal and educated body builders aren't part of the first? Nobody but the extreme go more than three/four times a week, and those extreme cases take steroids which enable help with the regeneration. I don't want to further the topic, as it has nothing to do with the topic anymore.
@The:
Oda makes the conscious consideration that he cannot draw any women, because they'd rationally have been scared off from this profession by the risk of rape
Am I the only one completely flabbergasted by this scenario? Or is it a natural thing to look at characters in this shonen manga, like Bellemere and Hina, and think "wow they're brave characters alright, becoming marines, officers no less, despite the overhanging threat of rape!"
Idunno, I just have a really hard time coupling "unspoken overhanging threat of rape for female soldiers/fighters" with "One Piece"
That's not what I wrote, don't turn the words around. You seem a little too desperate to make me appear like some kind of bogeyman. Not because, but also again.
Just because you have a problem with it, doesn't make it an unbelievable and unpossible influence into the reason why we see so few female soldiers. OP is realistic to a degree, many of the topics Oda choses to portray are real world problems still.
Making it out to a "it's just manga, everything should be possible" seems to miss my pov. I'm out, because it's 1a.m., not because I wanna flee. :P
@The:
Wooooooow
Just wow. You are saying that you could honestly see Oda doing this? As he sets out to draw background marine/pirate footsoldiers for his fantasy adventure pirate comic aimed at young boys, Oda makes the conscious consideration that he cannot draw any women, because they'd rationally have been scared off from this profession by the risk of rapeAm I the only one completely flabbergasted by this scenario? Or is it a natural thing to look at characters in this shonen manga, like Bellemere and Hina, and think "wow they're brave characters alright, becoming marines, officers no less, despite the overhanging threat of rape!"
Idunno, I just have a really hard time coupling "unspoken overhanging threat of rape for female soldiers/fighters" with "One Piece"
I'm having pretty much the same reaction. Whether that would be true in real life or not is irrelevant, because I can't see that as being an issue for Oda in his SHONEN comic book at aimed MIDDLE SCHOOL BOYS.
That's not what I wrote, don't turn the words around. You seem a little too desperate to make me appear like some kind of bogeyman. Not because, but also again.
The "any" was referring to, as we've discussed, background characters. OBVIOUSLY Oda included named female officer-characters; the curious absence of background/Fodder/footsoldiers in spite of that fact is what set off this debate in the first place.
Of course, this is pretty irrelevant, because…
Just because you have a problem with it, doesn't make it an unbelievable and unpossible influence into the reason why we see so few female soldiers. OP is realistic to a degree, many of the topics Oda choses to portray are real world problems still.
…you still think this is a viable standpoint.
In the OP of your mind, we might possibly see a scene of Tashigi seriously confessing how tough her life as a marine has been, what with the looming threat of potential rape. Yes I use "extreme" examples, but doesn't the inclusion of the topic of rape into this story strike you as absurd, and out of place?
@Rogues':
Posting that Gif, I came to the sudden realization of how depressingly sad Oda's women are.
Between the remaining pirate crews and other organizations left in the New World (Yonko crews, Revolutionaries, Government, Shichibukai, others, etc.), I sincerely hope to God we have a hard-cut female like that.
But knowing Oda, we probably won't. ;_;
Why?
I guess Oda can't draw a muscular woman without exaggerating it, like Miss Monday.
Oda has a cartoony artstyle that doesn't really favor realistic body types. Add the fact that he already has trouble drawing women in the first place and you get some wishful thinking.
Schabarak is a bad poster.
The amount of eye rolling LaFF's posts gave me could rewind a fucking hurricane
@Monkey:
If we had some shitheaded stereotypical Teen Atheist on here casually talking shit about religion and all that. He'd be just as soon booted out the door as you and Kenjitr.
Don't worry, should Stereotypical Teen Atheist come around, I'll sort them out, as the big enlightened atheist of this here forum
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I don't buy the women are naturally weaker argument, therefore, they cannot be as badass as the men in One Piece. Men in this world can lift houses, the strength arguement goes out the window, because that is far more ridiculous than a woman being as strong as Zoro (and not saying that HAS to happen). And in this world people can get increddible powers from devil fruit so strength shouldn't matter that much. And now Haki exists.
Completely agree. With such an insane natural strength potential (up to the level of lifting houses if you train intensely enough), whatever small real world average strength differences between men and women would be rendered moot. What's stopping a woman from training just as much as Zoro and lifting a house herself? And it's especially weird in light of the explicitly strong women of Amazon Lily. I'd like to believe that the women of the OPverse are simply held down by societal norms, but unfortunately it seems it's simply Oda's notion that women are just naturally weaker (ever since Kuina).
Pleas don't compare other people to likes of me - they may feel offended.
Not at all. That would be a compliment.
But I'm absolutely offended at the suggestion that Daz and MK and I "don't have opinions of our own." As if anyone with a remotely progressive agenda who disagrees with the blatant misogynists must be a sheeple.
@CCC:
Not at all. That would be a compliment.
But I'm absolutely offended at the suggestion that Daz and MK and I "don't have opinions of our own." As if anyone with a remotely progressive agenda who disagrees with the blatant misogynists must be a sheeple.
You're just being politically correct, to be safe and popular!!
I guess Oda can't draw a muscular woman without exaggerating it, like Miss Monday.
Oda has a cartoony artstyle that doesn't really favor realistic body types. Add the fact that he already has trouble drawing women in the first place and you get some wishful thinking.
I knooow. I'm not demanding for Ms. Monday here, I don't want an ugly Schwarzenegger in drag, I just want a confident female unashamed of sporting six-pack abs.
Not asking for the moon, Oda! 
Completely agree. With such an insane natural strength potential (up to the level of lifting houses if you train intensely enough), whatever small real world average strength differences between men and women would be rendered moot. What's stopping a woman from training just as much as Zoro and lifting a house herself? And it's especially weird in light of the explicitly strong women of Amazon Lily. I'd like to believe that the women of the OPverse are simply held down by societal norms, but unfortunately it seems it's simply Oda's notion that women are just naturally weaker (ever since Kuina).
Oda really dropped the ball with Kuina.
Trying to give a real life biological explanation for a character's potential weakness when his own fantasy world has a bunch of elderly characters kicking all sorts of ass and people surviving stuff that they shouldn't.
However, I still like to believe that Kuina was just succumbing to outside pressuring and that the whole thing was all in her head.
@Rogues':
I knooow. I'm not demanding for Ms. Monday here, I don't want an ugly Schwarzenegger in drag, I just want a confident female unashamed of sporting six-pack abs and broad shoulders.
You… Can be... Proud of having broad shoulders?
As I mentioned in the SnK thread, I greatly miss the old Arlong-park arc/East-Blue Nami compared to her current characterization, which I believe has since greatly deteriorated or otherwise suffered for the worse.
Y'now, before she became treated as Fanservice and needed to be put on a pedestal like she was as fragile as fine china.
God damn, I can hardly believe they're the same character.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You… Can be... Proud of having broad shoulders?
I honestly don't know what I actually meant with the shoulders thing. Was kinda ad-libbing there.
Final Exams make my head tired, sorry.
@Rogues':
As I mentioned in the SnK thread, I greatly miss the old Arlong-park arc/East-Blue Nami compared to her current characterization, which I believe has since greatly deteriorated or otherwise suffered for the worse.
Y'now, before she became treated as Fanservice and needed to be put on a pedestal like she was as fragile as fine china.
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Z0w7w4_JOXc/hqdefault.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8072/hcdy.jpgGod damn, I can hardly believe they're the same character.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I honestly don't know what I actually meant with the shoulders thing. Was kinda ad-libbing there.
Final Exams make my head tired, sorry.
present Nami is better. I can give you 2 good reasons why :ninja:
@Rogues':
I honestly don't know what I actually meant with the shoulders thing. Was kinda ad-libbing there.
Final Exams make my head tired, sorry.
No, I was just asking, hah.
@Destiny: Is it each of her thighs? :ninja:
@Monkey:
present Nami is better. I can give you 2 good reasons why :ninja:
Her baby blue eyes? 
It's actually Right tit and Left tit, isn't it?
@Rogues':
As I mentioned in the SnK thread, I greatly miss the old Arlong-park arc/East-Blue Nami compared to her current characterization, which I believe has since greatly deteriorated or otherwise suffered for the worse.
Y'now, before she became treated as Fanservice and needed to be put on a pedestal like she was as fragile as fine china.
God damn, I can hardly believe they're the same character.
!
UGGGGGGH… she was really so much better before. Now she seems to mostly be a straight man character to offset the guys.
I just rewatched Strong World over the weekend and was reminded that, for once, she's on the receiving end of slapstick at the hands of the electric bird. I was pleasantly surprised when it shocked her a few times, but then I remembered that all this really means is the anime writers are less conservative with her than Oda is.
(Also, after finding that volume cover, I feel like Oda just transferred all of the mass from her ridiculously oversized clown feet and transferred it to her boobs.)
I miss tomboy Nami. She was so much more interesting. And um… does anyone else think that boobs that large aren't attractive? I keep imagining giant nipples on them that look like pacifiers.
@Monkey:
I'm just saying we all have our appetites and it's not very fair to come down on Rogue's Gallery.
Also if Zoro and Mihawk are about to leap over the table and fuck in your sig, does that mean Law is going to watch? Is that where his left hand is going? Is that why Bepo is drooling?
Hahaha, this is pretty damn adorable. Well I guess you have some creativity, I'll give you that. I must say the internet really is an amazing place, absolutely hysterical seeing people on the internet needing to have the loudest bark. There's really nothing tougher than internet baddasses!
Also next time you start barking loud and sounding really really tough, can you make sure to call your mentalist lap dog over here. I need to ask valiant if he prefers paypal or cash for reading me so well with his internet PHD in psychology. He shouldn't waste such talent for free.
@CCC:
Wait. Sorry.
I completely lost track of the main point here, which is…Would you call men who happen to be just as muscled as the women in RG's pictures "disgusting"? I suspect not (prove me wrong), but if not, then why not?
And any argument involving "wacka wacka it's not natural" is a bunch of nonsense, because bam- there they are. They did their chin-ups and ate their Wheaties. Nothing unnatural there.
Disgusting was a hyperbolic comment, and hopefully that alone didn't start what looks to be like a fucking trainwreck heading in no man's land. It's not that it's not natural, I just find it a massive turn off. Some guys will find turn offs with a girl having bad teeth, or her nose or whatever it is, to me women that have very noticeable muscles are a turn off. I'm sure they will be more than fine without my attention, as these women get more than enough love around the world, just looking at this topic alone shows that. Different strokes for different folks. One of my friends (a guy) is into professional body-building. I personally don't see the appeal of working so hard to look like that but I can't deny the incredible work that it takes to get in that shape, on top of him having a great attitude about everything, more power to him and to these women. Nothing wrong with others finding these women hotter than the typical woman either, to me however the opposite is what I find attractive despite the douchy way it was stated in the first few words of my earlier comment.
@Rogues':
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/655/158/ba8.gif
I'm not convinced this is a fair response, given the guy is clearly trying to make amends and while I'll agree his initial outburst was a bit insulting, I see nothing unreasonable with how he put it this time
Hahaha, this is pretty damn adorable. Well I guess you have some creativity, I'll give you that. I must say the internet really is an amazing place, absolutely hysterical seeing people on the internet needing to have the loudest bark. There's really nothing tougher than internet baddasses!
Also next time you start barking loud and sounding really really tough, can you make sure to call your mentalist lap dog over here. I need to ask valiant if he prefers paypal or cash for reading me so well with his internet PHD in psychology. He shouldn't waste such talent for free.
Damn, not necessarily on your side but I admit that was a good comeback lol.
I'm not convinced this is a fair response, given the guy is clearly trying to make amends and while I'll agree his initial outburst was a bit insulting, I see nothing unreasonable with how he put it this time
Ehh, fair enough, fair enough.
I concede, and post deleted.
! http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/4479/463628-onepiece_v_9.jpg
UGGGGGGH… she was really so much better before. Now she seems to mostly be a straight man character to offset the guys.
I just rewatched Strong World over the weekend and was reminded that, for once, she's on the receiving end of slapstick at the hands of the electric bird. I was pleasantly surprised when it shocked her a few times, but then I remembered that all this really means is the anime writers are less conservative with her than Oda is.
(Also, after finding that volume cover, I feel like Oda just transferred all of the mass from her ridiculously oversized clown feet and transferred it to her boobs.)
Oda is the one who wrote that scene
I'm not convinced this is a fair response, given the guy is clearly trying to make amends and while I'll agree his initial outburst was a bit insulting, I see nothing unreasonable with how he put it this time
It's a fair response, better than calling the cops
Oda is the one who wrote that scene
Yeah I was thinking that.
Which is a bit strange, because the last time I can remember Nami or Nami's body on the receiving end of slapstick, was when Sanji was inhabiting it.
Yeah I was thinking that.
Which is a bit strange, because the last time I can remember Nami or Nami's body on the receiving end of slapstick, was when Sanji was inhabiting it.
What about the incident with the art lady on Dressrosa?
I miss tomboy Nami. She was so much more interesting. And um… does anyone else think that boobs that large aren't attractive? I keep imagining giant nipples on them that look like pacifiers.
Well, boobs that big are basically impossible considering the rest of her measurements, so they don't really appeal to me.
Maybe if she were more proportional.
I want to believe too big guy3ds code friend:0404-6254-1866
