The only time I hate us Millennials is when I read us talk about politics.
Because we've somehow managed to grow up into even more worthless defeatist sadsacks than the already worthless sadsacks that made up Gen X.

Talking out one side of your mouth about people not fighting hard enough when it mattered, and out the other side about it being too late or whatever comfortable numbness bullshit you want.

We're not the cringing kids any more, we're middle aged with beer bellies. There's kids coming up, fight for them you self obsessed navel gazing blobs.

I've been trying to figure out a relateable analogy to how prejudicial Russians seem to regard Ukrainians. It can't be overtly racial being as they see them as fellow East Slavs, but… yeah it still reeks of heavy heavy prejudice.

I keep thinking ... is it like how Americans some times mock and laugh at "hillbillies" and the South more generally? Or how Londonders might look down their nose at northern English people?
But then naw I feel like those don't encapsulate the full thing. The full shitty borderline racist venom.

Maybe how shitty northern Italians view southern Italians?

@pariston_hill:

Yes, and how exactly a popular movement for more westernization of Ukraine can't be hijacked the national elites? That's a point that probably is trickier for you folks above the Equator, but the national elites of post colonial countries, which I assume is fair to count the post Russian Empire/Soviet Union and the Balkans as, is that they are a backstabbing absolute merciless and reckless bunch that will often bow down to whoever gave then more economical gains (usually Western Companies) in the shorter time, and they are unbelievably hard on neoliberals like Regan and Thatcher.

The alternative here being an even worse form of capitalism, an entire country run top to bottom like the mafia.

Also lol at the implication that popular movements in general don't always water down and lean toward some different power bloc in the end. You hope you can salvage the main points and end up somewhere better, and Ukraine joining the EU is an absolute objective improvement over the Russosphere so what the fuck point are you even trying to make.
You're framing this like it's between Latin America style nationalization versus the United Fruit Company, which it isn't at all.
The line you don't seem to understand here is not the equator but the old iron curtain.

@Smudger:

Trump, Boris and Le Pen have monopolised on voters being fed up of decades of rule under of your typical cardboard cutout lying politicians.

When the concerns of the people are ignored it creates radical opposition powered by people that would accept massive character flaws in exchange for their voice being heard.

Absolutely nothing is gotten in exchange. Populists are cardboard cutout lying politicians that exist entirely for grift and personal prestige.
The difference between them and vanilla politicians is celebrity wrestler like charisma, sociopathy, and narcissism. And because they build personality cults their followers can and do worse off under them than most other politicians, but still slavishly support them to literally death.

No matter how lame the standard politicians are there's no fucking excuse to support populists lol. They're always worse than the bland usual crap.

@pariston_hill:

The West think they too good to have an far right incompetent buffoon as leader even when they have Bojo, had Trump, Berlusconi and others. Meanwhile Orbán is on the fourth run, Putin since '00, Erdogan since '03 (the last two are not in UE, but not for the lack of Turkey trying). All that is needed is to win one election, and win the following one.

The west does this, but bit by bit.

Brits thought there was no way Brexit would pass, until they woke up the next morning.
Americans thought there was no way Trump could win even after Brexit, and yet….

Our countries (especially America) are now very very very disabused of this notion. Anti-Trump Americans are very freaked out at the possibility of what he almost did and could still do, trust me.

The problem is each major Western country has it's own personal arrogance, and in this regard you're absolutely right. Meaning basically that the French might be all "Oh haha. please we're not like the (lol) Yankees and Brits, we already thought of them as embarrassing simpletons. FRANCE would never do THAT."
Each Western country is as you say until it happens, and learn nothing at all from the other western countries who went through that process.

@Smudger:

And Finland.

This must be how Finland and Sweden view the Natomobile, while Ireland, Cyprus & Malta zip off into the clouds.
[hide]

Ireland and Cyprus would join it in two seconds if not for the fact that the countries they're most directly worried about are already members.

@Smudger:

I feel the opposite when I read about the tragic aftermath of this ongoing war. Judging by reports of captured russians it's likely the majority of these russian soldiers are being lied to, and think of themselves as heroes. And while yes I can understand this won't hold water for everyone, I can understand how losing a comrade on either side could make you lose your humanity.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russian-soldiers-ukraine-anger-duped-into-war

This is what I thought at first, but now look at the most recent news we're getting of what they've been up to in the areas they were occupying.

Every last nightmarish thing about this is just a complete mask off mass event for Putin's Russia.

@Wintermute:

You forgot about the Krim? That was some years ago.

It was very confusing coming out of nowhere in the current context.

You know realpolitik. Please enlighten me how the Ukraine gets back all their territory now? Within a year? 10 years?

The Russian army collapsing from doing the war like they've been doing could very easily lead to Donetsk and Luhansk being retaken.
I'd say Crimea too if not for Russia officially considering it Russian territory.
What exactly are you mentioning realpolitick for anyway.

@Wintermute:

Russia violently gnawed away big chunks of an independent nation and got away with it. That, as sad as it is, is a win.

Why are you talking in the past tense about an ongoing war.