Chapter 1086: The Five Elders
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So Stephen has Garling as the former ruler/king of God Valley.
The two interesting differences I found was Ju Peter saying that if the Mother Frame works it could bring "this ancient battle to an end" (instead of ending just any conflict) as well as Imu saying that he "desires" Vivi as opposing to simply wanting her brought back.
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"Mother Frame" is completely different from "Mother Flame" and implies there's no actual energy source used, but rather a system.
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Everything points to V107 ending next chapter instead of this one. The cliffhanger didn't feel like a good volume cap, nor a tease for next one, and there's several 15-pages long chapters in V107, making room for a possible 11th inclusion.
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Having the 3 last Seraphim being the most obvious ones was kinda a let down. However, them not being at Egghead may mean it won't be the Straw Hats to fight them.
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Vegapunk was an asshole to scar S-Croc's face. Did he amputate the the poor kid's hand too?
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Mjosgard’s death shocked me by how unorthodox it was. The guy was a hero, but his death is unknown by anyone, including those he helped. Also, most of the cast never met him. I hope he’s not forgotten. I feel his story is not over.
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Imu's words confirm they used a Vegapunk creation on Lulusia. However, Dragon says Vegapunk would never make a weapon like that, and the conversation then led to the Ancient Weapons. Maybe Vegapunk unwittingly made Uranus deployable?
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When I see the Elders or the Holy Knight leader, I don’t get the same “these guys are STRONG” feel I got from the likes of Kaido or Big Mom. It’s more “these guys are EVIL”. Their power is in influence, secrecy and amorality, rather than raw strength.
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@Bugs said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
So Stephen has Garling as the former ruler/king of God Valley.
I Was going to mention the same thing, Spanish and French versions do not have him as God Valley's ruler.
And there was already earlier discussions about it on twitter.
Perhaps Sandman can also shed some light on this topic.
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@King-Cannon It could still be a powering system.
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I wish I had access to a raw copy right now. If Oda's using フレーム, then yeah that can mean "frame" or "flame", but it's flame as in "flaming someone on the internet" as opposed to fire.
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@Monquito said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
@Bugs said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
So Stephen has Garling as the former ruler/king of God Valley.
I Was going to mention the same thing, Spanish and French versions do not have him as God Valley's ruler.
And there was already earlier discussions about it on twitter.
Perhaps Sandman can also shed some light on this topic.
Sandman already said in the spoilers that he thinks that "champion" is correct instead ruler. Usually, I put Sandman's word over Stephen but... the word can mean either one.
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Says フレイム
Not sure how much of a difference that makes -
I'm going to trust sandman with the champion thing because it makes no sense to be king since we know world nobles are on marijois not other islands and they only have gorosei higher ranked not other kings.
But what was shanks doing ar reverie, visiting his grandpa?
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Oh yikes, so Myosgard was executed already?
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I was hoping TCB was correct, but it seems Mjosgard is dead...
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Thanks. Hmmm... it doesn't seem to be the more common way of spelling "flame" or "frame," but it's not invalid. Unfortunately, I can't really tell if "flame" meaning fire is invalid as a definition.
How do the Spanish and French version do it?
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@sandman wrote this on his twitter:
Some translations of Garling as the former * king * of God Valley may not be accurate enough. It is more accurate to translate him as a superhero who played an active role in God Valley. Plus, unlike Viz, Mother * Flame * (マザーフレイム) is more accurate translation, I believe.
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@Bugs said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
How do the Spanish and French version do it?
French says "Mother Flame" while Spanish says "Mother Frame"
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Can’t believe Mac Tonight is a legitimate threat in One Piece.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
@sandman wrote this on his twitter:
Some translations of Garling as the former * king * of God Valley may not be accurate enough. It is more accurate to translate him as a superhero who played an active role in God Valley. Plus, unlike Viz, Mother * Flame * (マザーフレイム) is more accurate translation, I believe.
Great, so we don't have any clear answers for either. The Spanish version also calls him a monarch and uses Mother Frame. The French version apparently calls him a champion and uses Mother Flame. The Bahasa version uses Mother Frame. The Brazilian Portugese version uses Mother Flame but (correct me if I'm wrong), also calls Garling a former ruler of God Valley.
Oi. What a mess.
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Hopefully Stephen can go into it a bit more on the podcast on to why he went with these definitions. Ruler can also be taken in a different way to King (as a hero can also be a ruler) but Frame and Flame imply very different things. Frame makes it sound like a ship but Flame makes it sound like a power source.
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.....Wait, am I the only one who just noticed Garling is missing his left arm?
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Is he though? It could just be the angle and his clothes being completely black
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@statu-variabilis It's a bit tricky, but his sword is on his left hip and his right hand on the hilt, so if you look up at where his left arm should logically be, it's not there.
Which would mean the likelihood of him being Shanks' dad is now quite higher.
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@Johnny-B-Decent To me, he has arms crossed, and his opposite arm is holding the sword.
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Very shocking chapter
All those Uranus Lulusia predictions outta the window so fast
I've said before that I've yet to see something mind blowing from Vegapunk and god damn it he created something equal to an ancient weapon !!
and it makes perfect sense that this weapon is under WG control since they funded everything in egghead
I would like someone to confirm on Iva's words referring to founder Imu using male wording instead of female
Shank's father is poorly designed goofy looking scum
Mjosgard deserved a better ending, we don't even know his last words are.
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@hideoushorrendous said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
All those Uranus Lulusia predictions outta the window so fast
I don't think this chapter disproved that. Ivankov bringing that possibility up just reinforced it, IMO.
It can both be an Ancient Weapon AND Vegapunk's creation, if the later was used to power/deploy the former. Dragon did say Vegapunk wouldn't create such a weapon, after all, in this same chapter, so we know the government must have tampered with it somehow.
It being the "Mother Flame", while Egghead was powered by "fire", with Lilith theorizing of an "eternal flame", and Stella dreaming of "unlimited power", I feel it's heavily implying the WG used a Vegapunk-made power-source to enable the use of an Ancient Weapon.
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Well, it's just unless York invented it entirely by herself and kept it hidden away, wouldn't the Vegapunks remember "Oh yeah, we did invent this super fuel thing"?
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@Johnny-B-Decent We still haven't got any reaction from Vegapunk about Lulusia's destruction (does he/they even know that happened?).
I don't think one of the Vegapunks would be able to create a weapon so powerful without any of the others knowing. It goes beyond just keeping some actions/thoughts away from their hivemind, as there would be need for a lot of resources in Egghead. It would be a proper project.
I think the simplest explanation is that Vegapunk's existing energy source, which currently powers Egghead, was offered to the Government, who in turn used it to fuel up Uranus, whatever it is.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
@hideoushorrendous said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
All those Uranus Lulusia predictions outta the window so fast
I don't think this chapter disproved that. Ivankov bringing that possibility up just reinforced it, IMO.
It can both be an Ancient Weapon AND Vegapunk's creation, if the later was used to power/deploy the former. Dragon did say Vegapunk wouldn't create such a weapon, after all, in this same chapter, so we know the government must have tampered with it somehow.
It being the "Mother Flame", while Egghead was powered by "fire", with Lilith theorizing of an "eternal flame", and Stella dreaming of "unlimited power", I feel it's heavily implying the WG used a Vegapunk-made power-source to enable the use of an Ancient Weapon.
Uranus in mythology was king of the sky, and seeing as how Lunarians are sky beings with flames on their backs, then I suppose Lunarians would be the prime suspect here.
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@electricmastro This is a good point. Maybe the ancient kingdom's tech was powered by lunarian fire, thus they were "gods", much like Enel's power allows him to rule over the ancient moon civilization.
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Japanese fans think Imu is male because he is called Imu-sei (イム聖) in this chapter, not Imu-Gu (イム宮) like Shalria, Charlos's sister.
Regarding Flame/Frame, It is written as マザーフレイム (Mother Flame), not マザーフレーム (Mother Frame), so I believe the former is most likely correct.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
@electricmastro This is a good point. Maybe the ancient kingdom's tech was powered by lunarian fire, thus they were "gods", much like Enel's power allows him to rule over the ancient moon civilization.
Which would point to the idea that One Piece has a king of the sky character who’s Lunarian and would explain much about Uranus, like how Neptune explained much about Poseidon.
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What an absolute treat these last chapters have been. Don't even mind the break, fortunately not really a cliff-hanger ending and wrapping up the Reverie scene perfectly. Somehow I feel like it's a much better point for a 4-week-break than the one last year.
Myosgards death really hit me, Otohime is one of my favorite characters and so seeing a part of her legacy brutally executed was something I maybe could've seen coming after chapter 1054 especially, but didn't, and so yeah, man rough.
I am curious what the book is that Ivankov is holding, I think it says Genesi(s) on it. so it doesn't appear to be the devil fruit book, certainly an intriguing title. What also stood out to me is that Dragon is still very passive/quiet in this chapter, very much feels like Oda is still saving him for the end-endgame to me.
And Stelly appeared, I think based on his scene in the throne room all the way back in 907, it was reasonable to assume he might play the role that Wapol ended up playing, learning something he shouldn't have, but Wapol's much more entertaining and he also has more interesting relationships, so I'm totally fine with the way things turned out. Still good to see this piece of shit.
Also, I guess I should watch Film Red. -
Poor Myosgard, dude really paid it forward.
Kinda surprised Imu has no really leverage over the Elders beyond the fact they've always been there.
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Imu is just a natural extension of the World Nobles system. The descendants of the Gods are nothing without one of the Gods.
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The simple fact that Imu hides himself behind a veil of deception and lies implies he fears for his life. He's "god" only to believers, he knows the world would rise up if the truth was revealed. To me, he's the ultimate pretender, a cowardly usurper.
I believe the he first joined an alliance to defeat an Ancient Evil. Then he convinced 19 other kings to betray that alliance and seize power to themselves. Then, when the 20 kings decided no one would rule alone, he waited all his peers to die out so he could seize the throne. And even THEN, he made his existence a secret, because if he was revealed as the ruler of the world, others would challenge him for his position.
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Do you guys think Imu could represent Earth, since his Elder underlings have planet names? It could imply this idea of “the planets revolve around Earth”?
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@electricmastro I think he's meant to be the void of space. That's what's implied in him calling himself "mu" (void or emptiness). However, even in that he's just a pretender, as the true void would be Blackbeard.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
@electricmastro I think he's meant to be the void of space. That's what's implied in him calling himself "mu" (void or emptiness). However, even in that he's just a pretender, as the true void would be Blackbeard.
Blackbeard might be the Moon, or more literal with Garling, whose head is the shape of the Moon.
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@electricmastro
I think the dichotomy here is Sun vs Darkness. -
A shame to lose Jinbei for a color spread, but oh well.
Well, this should be the puzzle pieces falling into place on the whole Morgans situation. Wapol's call to Morgans should be the exact scene way back where Morgans first got the message to cover up something and then got threatened by cp0. Cobra's death was kept secret at first while they got the Reverie to end and all royalty to start their trip home. The Government probably just wanted some time to decide how to cover it up, but Morgans (thanks to Wapol) basically forced their hand to use the camera photo to frame Sabo.
Wapol and Vivi hid amongst the storage of the British Kingdom, meaning their probably surrounded by barrels of tea. Bonney hid on the ship for the Kingdom seeming like Morocco. Both these Kingdoms also had rebellions as they returned home apparently. None of that probably matters, but it's kinda fun little trivia.
Obligatory Spandam cameo on search duty. That means Kaku is the only one that got left out of this flashback. Shame, since we know he was there from the actual chapters of the event, but I guess he was busy like Lucci. I'm happy to see Sabo actually did get roughed up a lot from this situation. He looked pretty fine when all he suffered was the tail stabbing, but this is good. I can probably take Sabo off the list of boring powerful good guys that Oda hasn't shown looking hurt or defeatable yet. Hoping for Garp next. Shanks and Dragon eventually...hopefully.
Already spent my time voicing my feelings on the Elders & Im scene here. I still get the vibe of the Elders being relatively reasonable in their approach of this situation, but Im makes a demand and the Elders must comply. Time will tell if Oda bothers fleshing out the Elders more, but this is the first time I've felt like the Elders are starting to feel like real characters and not just plot device leader villains and I'm happy for that.
Happy to see there's more Seraphim out there. For Crocodile to have been spotted at Buggy's place, this has to be after the initial attack on the Warlords which all failed (with Hancock's being the closest). I kinda doubt all 3 Serpahim were sent after just Crocodile/Buggy, so perhaps the idea of the scene is that dozens of things are getting called off all at once and the Seraphim are just getting ready to be sent out to cover various ones. Otherwise maybe they were sent at Crocodile, but once Mihawk showed up, they decided to call off the attack. I don't know, but I really doubt Oda wants to imply the Seraphim actually failed out there, so the only things that make sense are they either went out to do different stuff, or the attack never happened.
I'm not stuck wondering if Oda will necessitate Shanks being involved when things get busy with the big war and the Holy Knights are confronted. I still want to believe Shanks death is imminent, but this connection with the leader of the Holy Knights really puts a wrench in things. There's not much point in creating a connection here if Shanks isn't gonna be involved. So are we dealing with Im and the government first, then Shanks will die to Teach mid-war (but after fleshing out his connection with Garland?) and then Teach last?
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Chapter 1086 gives possible perspective on Celestrial Dragon life. Any faint showing of a Celestial Dragon turning over a new leaf like Mjosgard is excuted by Garling due to his idea that a scum-helper is below scum itself. Nevermind helping scum, Garling breeds it.
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Flame is such an intuitive take no one would think of Frame, so maybe Stephen is already aware of something we are not and that why he picked it?
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@access-timeco Other official translations used "Flame", thought. And more than one japanese speaker said "Flame" is more appropriate, since "Frame" is usually written a bit differently.
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You know what? This is enough to satisfy me for a month's hiatus. It's plenty. No complaints, and I hope Oda's recovering smoothly from his eye surgery. Beams and everything.
We're three for three of really likable Jump covers lately, and I really enjoy seeing characters other than Luffy share these things. I hope all these nice bits of art find their way into the volumes in one form or another. And hey, Luffy's shorts seem to be a different shade here compared to the Onigashima orange ones. I guess this is the post-Wano outfit. The colour spread is a gorgeous bit of work as well with a lot of cool artistic flexing in the rippling reflections and slick water colour on the raincoats. Beautiful stuff.
The flashback wraps up in fairly short order with some expected confirmations and some big surprises. My read on Wapol's bit with Morgans is that the king brought the scoops to the bird completely fresh. But if it wasn't Morgans' snail in the throne room, how did he get the picture of Sabo? And if it is all based on Wapol's account (with Vivi's input) how did Sabo end up blamed? Especially considering Morgans declined to work with Cipher Pol on the two big Reverie controversies. Something about Sabo's accusation doesn't add up here.
I really feel for Igaram in the montage of people looking for Vivi and Cobra. It's a terrible situation and I hope the Alabasta squad didn't make things worse for themselves in their desperation.
It's interesting how the Elders note how surrounded by Ds Sabo is. I wonder what they'd think of Luffy trying to give him one when they were kids. But the real meat here, aside from the names and roles (we're up to nine out of twenty Celestial Dragon names revealed now, but how many of the remaining eleven will there be room for in the story?), is this Mother Frame weapon being a Vegapunk weapon. Depending on who holds the keys, this could be the very thing that justifies such a big cutaway in the middle of the Egghead arc. I was never fully sold on the theories it was an Ancient Weapon, and this being the weapon's first test firing closes a lot of questions about why such a thing wasn't used sooner. We also a little later learn it isn't anything as crazy as an orbital weapon or some long range blast from headquarters. The darkness behind the clouds was just ambiguous enough to leave doubts in chapter 1060, but now we know for certain this is a large, physical thing that has to get in place over its target. I'm caught between a traditional flying saucer and a death star for my design expectations. Maybe leaning toward the saucer based on this one panel from that first chapter.
And the frame/flame translation debate is just another part of this setup to keep an eye on.
The last few Seraphim were not a reveal I expected in the flashback but I'll take it. Weird for the Crocodile one to still have his scar.
And for all my talk of ambiguous wording last week, we learn fairly completely that Nerona Imu was one of the original monarchs, and is probably a man as well, since he's described as a king in the history books. Neat. Even though it doesn't add a ton, I enjoy Sabo, Dragon and Ivan speculating about what it all means. We can sound a lot like that on the forums sometimes, can't we? The Op Op immortality operation is the first place a lot of us went for Imu so it's satisfying to see in-universe characters reaching the same conclusion. But that doesn't mean they're right! The scene ends with Ivan and Dragon convincing themselves that the new weapon is more likely to be an Ancient Weapon than one of Vegapunk's machines, even though we the readers have already been told that isn't the case. I think it's always a nice humanising factor when characters are allowed to jump to wrong conclusions and get mistaken about their own world's lore like this.
And then holy shit, that ending. Have to appreciate the historical irony of the Revolutionaries' supply blockades leaving the nobles with nothing but cake. Let them eat it then. Garling makes quite an impression, both visually and in his ideology. And in being the ruler of God Valley. Since when did Celestial Dragons hold land and titles below those of Mariejoa? File that away as having something special about it we don't know yet (or being a translation issue, as some are suggesting).
The Holy Knights having enough authority over the Celestial Dragons to execute one is shocking. I mean, I first pegged them as mediators for disputes among the world's most untouchable group, but this is the next level. Even more shocking is the sentence having already been carried out. Of course in One Piece you have to take these kinds of things with a grain of salt, but that last panel paints a pretty bloody picture. No last words, no Kuma rescue after his climb, this character is gone. And the method as well - a scaffold and two men with blades has been shown as the standard so far, but here's Mjosgard, crucified on a World Government symbol and seemingly done in by a firing squad. And so, the Celestial Dragons purge the sole redeemable figure from their ranks.
Despite how weighty all of this feels, I don't think we're at the end of volume 107 yet. Not until we've seen the Strawhats again, even if it's only on the last page. Shame we couldn't quite get over the finish line on this one before the hiatus though. If I recall correctly, volume 104 and the last break were the same way. What can you do?
And that's it I think. A month of downtime, but we should have the volume 106 cover reveal and full release both in the coming weeks, so it's not like there'll be no One Piece to talk about. I'm going to try and keep a new review or essay coming out on the blog every Monday like usual, all different topics.
I want to try to take a swing at the Youtube thing again as well. But something less time sensitive than chapter reviews because there was just no way to be official release-friendly and keep up with fandom hype cycles and algorithms. Wanted to do that last week actually, but I copped a bad cold and had to put it off.
I hope that whatever you all pursue to pass the time in the break, it goes well for you.
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@CaptainM,
This chapter doesn't confirm it is Vegapunk's 'weapon' that destroyed Lulusia.
Rather the wording seems heavily hinting it is an ancient weapon fueled by Vegapunk's creation. -
@Captain-M said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
But if it wasn't Morgans' snail in the throne room, how did he get the picture of Sabo? And if it is all based on Wapol's account (with Vivi's input) how did Sabo end up blamed? Especially considering Morgans declined to work with Cipher Pol on the two big Reverie controversies. Something about Sabo's accusation doesn't add up here.
In Ch 956 we see that Morgans was contacted by Wapol after he already had all three news known.
Yes, Cipher Pol tried to cover one of the news, but it was never said which one. Now knowing that Mjosgard was executed without any news to the world, maybe the story that the WG wanted covered was actually the "assassination attempt" on Charlos?
@Captain-M said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
I was never fully sold on the theories it was an Ancient Weapon, and this being the weapon's first test firing closes a lot of questions about why such a thing wasn't used sooner.
Ivankov's later points make it seem like this may be an Ancient Weapon after all. Imu never said that the "Mother Flame" is the weapon, only that he wishes to test it.
Dragon knows Vegapunk very well, and says that Vegapunk would never knowingly make a weapon like that.
Ivankov brings the Ancient Weapons into the conversation, and Dragon asks the same question as you: why they never used it before?
Except that... maybe they did? God Valley disappeared after all. And since Lulusia is now said to "never have existed", who's to say it was never used?
But it's clear that the Government wouldn't be able to use it at will, or else they do it. So, what may have changed?
Probably, Vegapunk's energy research created a power source reliable enough to power up an Ancient Weapon? It took like 2 weeks to use it on Lulusia, still...
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
@Captain-M said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
But if it wasn't Morgans' snail in the throne room, how did he get the picture of Sabo? And if it is all based on Wapol's account (with Vivi's input) how did Sabo end up blamed? Especially considering Morgans declined to work with Cipher Pol on the two big Reverie controversies. Something about Sabo's accusation doesn't add up here.
In Ch 956 we see that Morgans was contacted by Wapol after he already had all three news known.
Yes, Cipher Pol tried to cover one of the news, but it was never said which one. Now knowing that Mjosgard was executed without any news to the world, maybe the story that the WG wanted covered was actually the "assassination attempt" on Charlos?
@Captain-M said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
I was never fully sold on the theories it was an Ancient Weapon, and this being the weapon's first test firing closes a lot of questions about why such a thing wasn't used sooner.
Dragon knows Vegapunk very well, and says that Vegapunk would never knowingly make a weapon like that.
Ivankov brings the Ancient Weapons into the conversation, and Dragon asks the same question as you: why they never used it before?
Except that... maybe they did? God Valley disappeared after all. And since Lulusia is now said to "never have existed", who's to say it was never used?
Probably, Vegapunk's energy research created a power source reliable enough to power up an Ancient Weapon? It took like 2 weeks to use it on Lulusia, still...
No, This chapter made it clear that the weapon was tested on Lulusia for the first time. It was a test and bald Gorosei wanted to do it on a jungle.
Whatever destroyed God Valley( if erased from the map means totally destroyed like Lulusia), must be something else.
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Ivankov's statements are pretty logical....so I'm now like 95% sure they are red herrings.
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@auem said in Chapter 1086: The Five Elders:
This chapter made it clear that the weapon was tested on Lulusia for the first time.
It made it clear that Vegapunk's "Mother Flame" was tested for the first time.
As for God Valley, the island has disappeared, and not only on maps. Sengoku said the island "disappeared entirely", and, if the manga wasn't clear enough, the anime did emphasized it disappeared physically.
It could be something like Uranus had power for X uses and the government had run out of fuel, so the Mother Flame test was needed.