Chapter 734: "Rommel's Whirlwind"
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Luffy touched the sword and nothing happened
thats not what i meant. The idea I had was that the ''user'' gets possesed, once he dies, the spirit goes back into the sword, and waits for a new host. I'm not convinced at all, i should of put that into the theories thread so lets leave it at that, was just a random thought.
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Not sure if it's been mentioned (sure it has, we tear apart each chapter every week.)
But Orlumbus definitly just about hit Cavendish with his whip. In my opinion this is showing he has the second best CoO in D block.
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thats not what i meant. The idea I had was that the ''user'' gets possesed, once he dies, the spirit goes back into the sword, and waits for a new host. I'm not convinced at all, i should of put that into the theories thread so lets leave it at that, was just a random thought.
that's totally like a devil fruit. this Hakuba guy si nothing but Cavendish's power.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Not sure if it's been mentioned (sure it has, we tear apart each chapter every week.)
But Orlumbus definitly just about hit Cavendish with his whip. In my opinion this is showing he has the second best CoO in D block.
! http://img.batoto.net/comics/2014/01/16/o/read52d7da526e7e9/img000011.png
Suleiman also looks like he know something's about to hit him, so he's the third best CoO in block D, or Orlombus and Suleiman were to close from Hakuba so they couldn't dodge it.
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@Panda:
Well, to be fair, we know from the scene of the marine outside the Coliseum looking through his list of names and thinking that he didn't recognize any of them that 'physical' records of a person are unaltered. Considering Doflamingo at least presumably knows how the toy power works, and that it involves a memory alteration, he could conceivably create some sort of record ahead of time; so while he would still have absolutely no memory of anyone transformed himself, he could see what he had made note of.
To further said fairness, such a list would need to be closely monitored and reviewed to protect against forgetting what was already forgotten. A tiresome endeavor, to be sure.
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I really liked the fact that rebecca was able to dodge Hakuba's attacks.
This means that she's actually pretty good at fighting (or dodging w/e).
I actually think that she'll be the one to eat mera mera no mi and after that luffy will make her join the crew.WHY? Well the answer is simple.
- Mera mera is a logia type fruit. which makes it really rare and unique.
2. Blackbeard is going after rare fruit users.
3. means that if rebecca eats the fruit, Blackbeard might go after her.
4. I know I know, Sabo must be stronger than rebecca/Jesus/Bart. But i don't want him to have that fruit.
5. Why? well he's a revolutionary, after eating that fruit, he'll still go on revolutionary missions, so he won't have much time panel/screen-time with SH's.
6. I want straw hats to have at least 1 logia fruit user. and 7 guys and 2 girls in a crew.. let's face it, i want to have at least 1 more female strawhat on the board.
7. She's a princess so she can't leave? Pffft, there's viola. who's much smarter than rebecca. she'll make a better queen/princess.
A Logia User with excellent CoO would be great on the TEAM. plus , we're really running low on female Logias.
Oh, I remember the perfect sarcastic post for this.@Jewelery:
Rebecca's for sure going join, she's so strong.
I mean like, come on, she'll be able to push one of the BB pirates off of a cliff at the end of the series. - Mera mera is a logia type fruit. which makes it really rare and unique.
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It is because Luffy touched it when Hakuba's curse was not unleashed. I mean look at how the fighters who touched Durandal in this chapter ended up. SLICED!!!
Sliced, as opposed to what a normal sword does?
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Sliced, as opposed to what a normal sword does?
It's futile to deny the curse of the cutting sword. Cavendish's hat is also cursed. When the curse is activated it keeps his head warm.
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Sliced, as opposed to what a normal sword does?
Thanks for expaining my joke !
I hope we will see more about Franky next week. We did not even get to see his haircut in this chapter.
As for Cavendish's hat, I wonder if the fatal blow it received will prevent Cavendish to wear it in the following chapters …I really liked this hat! -
Concerning Franky vs. Pink, I really hope Oda doesn't give the fight the Jora treatment.
Seeing only tidbits of the fight for the next 4 chapters would be painful.
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She said her mother told her that hurting people was bad when she was a kid and you're reading an awful lot into that to say it defines her as a person. Her fighting style is geared towards coliseum fighting and it's served her fine up until now. She's expressed a desire to take out Doflamingo which suggests she's not against harming people if she needs to and we don't know what she's capable of when push comes to shove because push hasn't come to shove yet. She didn't take out a named character, but then the only people that did that were Orlumbus and Hakuba. Cavendish didn't, and neither did anybody else in the block.
'Seemingly unsolvable' is our key disagreement here. Until Hakuba there was nothing to indicate who was going to win block D except for our own prejudices. As far as I'm concerned, Rebecca still could have won. Once Hakuba appeared he himself was the problem, and Rebecca's avoiding being taken out was a result of her amply foreshadowed speed, so not a deus ex machina.
Cavendish and Hakuba are the same person, what's so hard to grasp about this. I think you need to reread the defninition of deus ex machina again. It was a convenient intervention that came out of nowhere. And if you're delusional enough to think Rebecca would've won anyway without Hakuba, well then I think we're done here.
So I did a double-check and as far as I can tell your 'in awe' refers to the single panel immediately after Luffy one-shots Hajrudin. She expresses surprise that Luffy would be that strong. Cavendish meanwhile says 'of course' or something similar. It's not the level of strength that surprises her, but the person it's coming from. Cavendish isn't surprised because he knows Luffy by reputation. He expected that level of strength out of him, while Rebecca didn't.
Do you seriously think Cavendish would have a shocked expression on his face if it were, say, Jean Ango that took out the giant? No. Because it's not a feat of strength that he'd find impressive. Rebecca, on the other hand, would've been in awe regardless.
The fact that it's the same tournament doesn't mean squat. You can't make a comparison based on fodder and the named characters all have wildly variable stats. Unless two people fight each other or the same single enemy there's little means of comparing them, and even then circumstances have to be accounted for too. We don't actually see the speed at which the fighting occurs because manga doesn't move, so what we see is what Oda wants to show us at the pace that conveys what he wishes to convey. Sometimes three panels represent more time passing in-universe than an entire chapter.
So Cavendish is a total beast who nevertheless failed to take out any named characters in his block, something you earlier in this very same post tried to use as evidence against Rebecca? And when Bastille says Cavendish is good with a sword that means something but when Sabo says Rebecca is fast that's meaningless? Come on. At least be consistent.
Again, there was no reason to display Cavendish's power, we've seen plenty of it with his short skirmishes against Chinjao and Luffy (the latter whom pretty much toyed with Rebecca), Oda saved the name characters to be fodderized by Hakuba to show Cavendish is even more of a beast in his "Mr Hyde" form. Sabo says that Rebecca's speed "wasn't solely based on luck" implying a combination of luck and skill, so I don't see how this suddenly makes her some "speed prodigy".
You still don't know that she's going to be beaten, and she definitely doesn't know that she's going to be beaten, so until that actually happens you are wrong. And since the phrase comes from a real life battle in which the victor suffered such great losses that it wasn't worth it, you are still using it wrong. Rebecca hasn't lost anything. Even if she loses in the final she won't have lost anything.
Again, you're trying to dodge the original point of my argument: that the victory serves no purpose because we as an audience know that Rebecca has not gotten anywhere closer to her goal, nor has she grown as a character. Hence, bad writing. Again, I'd assume getting beaten half to death by Jesus Burgess would be considered "losing something", and if for whatever reason she escapes the round unscathed because Sabo decided to bend over for her, it's again unbelievable writing.
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@Monkey:
my bloody valentine is a great band
ding-ding-ding
(m b v blew my friggin socks off)…I feel like this has largely become a power levels discussion thinly disguised as a CoO levels discussion.
But yeah, I don't really think of Hakuba as a deus ex machina - it gives a whole chunk of probability to Cavendish (whoever referred to him as Dr. Cabbage and Mr. Horse is a new hero of mine) returning later on in the New World. And as much as he hates Luffy, his speed and incredible swordplay (plus his legendary sword) makes me wonder if he and Zoro would have a fight somewhere down the line.
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Not sure if it's been mentioned (sure it has, we tear apart each chapter every week.)
But Orlumbus definitly just about hit Cavendish with his whip. In my opinion this is showing he has the second best CoO in D block.
! http://img.batoto.net/comics/2014/01/16/o/read52d7da526e7e9/img000011.png
Looks more like a desperation strike to me (same for Sulieman). I don't doubt that Orlumbus and Sulieman are probably the two strongest fighters not named Cavendish in the block though, as they were introduced as one of the favourites to win at the beginning. But then again, so were Jeet and Abdullah…
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Looks more like a desperation strike to me (same for Sulieman). I don't doubt that Orlumbus and Sulieman are probably the two strongest fighters not named Cavendish in the block though, as they were introduced as one of the favourites to win at the beginning. But then again, so were Jeet and Abdullah…
There's also that Rebecca person.
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I don't like the idea of Rebecca eating the mera-mera fruit, however, it would be interesting if she did and then . . . A while after the strawhats have moved on from Dressrosa, they get word that Dressrosa has been attacked, they rush back and upon arrival to Dressrosa, they find it in ruins with a massive crater in the center. Sanji uses skywalk for a birds eye view and relises that the crater is in the shape of a colossal fist. It turns out, after hearing about Rebecca eating the fire fruit, Blackbeard dispatched Sanjuanwolf 'The Battelship' to retrieve Rebecca and her fruit? yes? no?
I don't if these kinds of posts are allowed here, apologies in advanced if they aren't.
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Which is the Most accurate one ?
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Cavendish and Hakuba are the same person, what's so hard to grasp about this. I think you need to reread the defninition of deus ex machina again. It was a convenient intervention that came out of nowhere. And if you're delusional enough to think Rebecca would've won anyway without Hakuba, well then I think we're done here.
Just going to interject myself into conversation because I have downtime at work. Spam understands they are two different people and is only separating the two personalities so it's easier to understand– ironic that you can't follow that. As for 'convenient intervention', are you referring to the writing (Oda) or in-world convenience? I have to assume the former since you are referencing deus ex machina, in which case you are wrong to assume that Hakuba's sole purpose in the manga is to push Rebecca into the finals. You are also wrong to call others delusional for refraining to draw conclusions due to a lack of evidence; IE: there's no proof that Rebecca would have lost without Hakuba's involvement.
Rebecca, on the other hand, would've been in awe [if it was Jean Ango that took out the giant].
Spam has more supporting evidence suggesting Rebecca was simply surprised at Lucy; the burden of proof is on you, and unfortunately your pretend scenario is impossible to prove.
Again, you're trying to dodge the original point of my argument: that the victory serves no purpose because we as an audience know that Rebecca has not gotten anywhere closer to her goal, nor has she grown as a character. Hence, bad writing. Again, I'd assume getting beaten half to death by Jesus Burgess would be considered "losing something", and if for whatever reason she escapes the round unscathed because Sabo decided to bend over for her, it's again unbelievable writing.
There's no reason or benefit in having Cavendish move forward in the tournament, while Rebecca carries emotional weight. Allowing her to win a round and lose to Doflamingo (effectively) is better for the story and develops her character more. Allowing all of her training and back story and effort to amount to something, even if very little, is a good thing. Obviously Cavendish isn't pigeonholed to this arc like Rebecca is, so again it better serves the narrative to move her to the finals, regardless of the final outcome.
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Which is the Most accurate one ?
http://i.share.pho.to/80507963_o.pngPowermanga is more accurate than Mangastream and Mangapanda.
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I am still baffled by why everyone assumes that Burgess is this incredibly powerful beast? Seriously we have seen absolutely and utterly nothing to indicate this. The only real thing we have seem from him is that he couldn't use Haki two years ago making him essentially helpless vs Ace and that he threw a house which is not that impressive. Of course spending two years in the Gran Line would have made him stronger but I don't see him being much more impressive then say Sanji
I see this alot, Burgess didn't throw a house at Ace . . . He threw a HOTEL haha don't diminsh his feats
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I don't know, I dislike the existence of a second persona for Cavendish. It also seemed like many knew about it, but no one mentioned anything before this chapter - Oda might have planned this a long time ago, sure, but to me it just feels weird. I found Cavendish interesting enough on his own before this already.
@Galaxy:
Powermanga is more accurate than Mangastream and Mangapanda.
But in this particular instance? I think that's what the poster wanted to know, if the statement literally read "twice as strong" in Japanese.
3DS friend code: 2964-8756-2295Games: Pokemon Y & Alpha Sapphire
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Great Chapter. I wouldnt have never imagined that Block D would end like this. I dont like Rebecca as the Winner of this Round and I think she will win the Finals, but how this will happen in the Future is a Secret that I cant explain.
My theory about the "Jekyll and Hide" thing: The Vice-Admiral said that this guy made his appearance everywhere when Cavendish showed up. I dont get it 100 % but has it been said that he got a second personaltiy or is it still a Mystery? Is it possible that his Sword got a curse (Like Zoros Sword) and everytime when he want it (If hes able to control it) would this curse turn into a Mask and control the guy who oscillate this Sword? Zoro got multiple Heads, Hands, Swords with Asura. I remember the fight between Ichigo and Byakuya. When Ichigo was nearly beaten, the mask appeared and beated the shit out of Byakuya. With the Sword of Cavendish it looks so much equal then that.
But if it isnt in the Sword, just something like a parasite which nestles in a Human Body with good fighting Abilities, I would love it when Cavendish and Luffy meet again, the parasite hikes somehow to Luffy and later, when Dofla is (maybe) about to beat Luffy, the mask appears and Boooom :DJust some thoughts.
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I'm the only one thinking that someone will cut Dofla hands? xd
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@-Pk-:
Great Chapter. I wouldnt have never imagined that Block D would end like this. I dont like Rebecca as the Winner of this Round and I think she will win the Finals, but how this will happen in the Future is a Secret that I cant explain.
My theory about the "Jekyll and Hide" thing: The Vice-Admiral said that this guy made his appearance everywhere when Cavendish showed up. I dont get it 100 % but has it been said that he got a second personaltiy or is it still a Mystery? Is it possible that his Sword got a curse (Like Zoros Sword) and everytime when he want it (If hes able to control it) would this curse turn into a Mask and control the guy who oscillate this Sword? Zoro got multiple Heads, Hands, Swords with Asura. I remember the fight between Ichigo and Byakuya. When Ichigo was nearly beaten, the mask appeared and beated the shit out of Byakuya. With the Sword of Cavendish it looks so much equal then that.
But if it isnt in the Sword, just something like a parasite which nestles in a Human Body with good fighting Abilities, I would love it when Cavendish and Luffy meet again, the parasite hikes somehow to Luffy and later, when Dofla is (maybe) about to beat Luffy, the mask appears and Boooom :DJust some thoughts.
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There's no reason or benefit in having Cavendish move forward in the tournament, while Rebecca carries emotional weight. Allowing her to win a round and lose to Doflamingo (effectively) is better for the story and develops her character more. Allowing all of her training and back story and effort to amount to something, even if very little, is a good thing. Obviously Cavendish isn't pigeonholed to this arc like Rebecca is, so again it better serves the narrative to move her to the finals, regardless of the final outcome.
The issue is that if she is defeated by Diamanté, wouldn't that be undercut by the fact that Sabo/Burgess/Bartolomeo would end up being the one to defeat him, assuming the tournament ends normally? What's the payoff then if Oda builds up the defeat? And how would it change Rebecca's role if she loses later other than if her defeat fell earlier?
If she is sticking around, I'm guessing it's because either Oda wants Diamanté and the tournament to still be linked and Rebecca plays a part in taking him out so that can hold weight with respect to the arc and have Diamante's role end at the tournament, or Oda plans to have the story of the tournament shift again so players pertinent to the arc are once again involved.
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Not sure if it's been mentioned (sure it has, we tear apart each chapter every week.)
But Orlumbus definitly just about hit Cavendish with his whip. In my opinion this is showing he has the second best CoO in D block.
! http://img.batoto.net/comics/2014/01/16/o/read52d7da526e7e9/img000011.png
That's what I was afraid of with people instantly transforming each of Rebecca's dodges into CoO. Now everytime a character manages to react to something it will be CoO.
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Dude, I wonder if Doflamingo wants to keep Cavendish in that dumpster after this.
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There's no reason or benefit in having Cavendish move forward in the tournament, while Rebecca carries emotional weight. Allowing her to win a round and lose to Doflamingo (effectively) is better for the story and develops her character more. Allowing all of her training and back story and effort to amount to something, even if very little, is a good thing. Obviously Cavendish isn't pigeonholed to this arc like Rebecca is, so again it better serves the narrative to move her to the finals, regardless of the final outcome.
Truth be told, though, I don't see the reason for Rebecca moving on as well.
I mean, we readers all know the reason she wants to win the tournament is void right now. (1) She wants to become strong to take down Doflamingo, something that Luffy will do very soon, and (2) she wants the Mera Mera because that will make her strong in a flash so she can attack Doflamingo before Thunder Soldier has the chance to do so himself, but we know he is already attacking.
Out of all the competitors (not only Sabo, Barto and Burgess, but also the other guys in Block D), she is the only one who can't gain anything anymore from staying in the tournament. None of her reasons to become strong or get the Mera Mera stands as of now. She doesn't know, obviously, but we readers do, so I wonder what Oda is planning by keeping her in the tournament… I hope it is not just so the people from Dressrosa start to love her and, knowing Oda, I am sure there is more behind it.
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@.access:
I hope it is not just so the people from Dressrosa start to love her and, knowing Oda, I am sure there is more behind it.
I think that's probably exactly why she's still in the tourney. Even if Luffy and Law and the rest defeat Doflamingo, people will still resent the Riku family. Perhaps if Rebecca is somehow badly treated in the final, the crowd will empathize with her?
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@.access:
That's what I was afraid of with people instantly transforming each of Rebecca's dodges into CoO. Now everytime a character manages to react to something it will be CoO.
This has been incredibly annoying since CoO was introduced. I hope later in the series we see some really strong characters that use neither haki or fruits.
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@.access:
Out of all the competitors (not only Sabo, Barto and Burgess, but also the other guys in Block D), she is the only one who can't gain anything anymore from staying in the tournament. None of her reasons to become strong or get the Mera Mera stands as of now. She doesn't know, obviously, but we readers do, so I wonder what Oda is planning by keeping her in the tournament… I hope it is not just so the people from Dressrosa start to love her and, knowing Oda, I am sure there is more behind it.
I think that's probably exactly why she's still in the tourney. Even if Luffy and Law and the rest defeat Doflamingo, people will still resent the Riku family. Perhaps if Rebecca is somehow badly treated in the final, the crowd will empathize with her?
Actually, I can see Oda doing that too, but that would also include everyone getting their memories back while Rebecca's in the ring. The crowd turning on Diamanté and cheering on Rebecca in the climax does seem appropriate.
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The thing is that it was established that the whole royal family's thing is to peaceful, as the country had been in peace for 800 years. I'd also call plot device, but he sliced up everyone else, too. Including some other female gladiators. Plus, her thing being that she never gets hit. which was countered by having her hit(by a male character, too). It really doesn't seem that strong of an argument this time around.
The two things to critize are probably that she's another "fragile, but skilled" type of character and that she has a revealing outfit, but everything else is fine. Character-wise she was handled fine, as it is in line with what we have learned about her in-story. She's good at what she does - being the only one noticing Hakuba's movements and managing to almost avoid it. It's a very nicely balanced outcome.This isn't some feminist point that I was making. She got hit in the helmet and if she didn't have it on, she would have likely been KO'ed. She had that same person attack only twice (?) until everyone but her was taken out, then he conveniently didn't bother to attack anymore but slept. That's a massive plot device. Her CoO and speed obviously played a part in her not getting taken out in those two hits, but it was one of the only ways for her to go through the round and potentially win it the next round since the other 3 will be focused on one another if it's a free for all.
Her sob story simply has not connected with me at all. Her sister is another story, same with her father, who I find more interesting.. especially Violet. Rebecca is simply far too boring and the way she won the round made her unlikable at this point.
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Not sure if it's been mentioned (sure it has, we tear apart each chapter every week.)
But Orlumbus definitly just about hit Cavendish with his whip. In my opinion this is showing he has the second best CoO in D block.
! http://img.batoto.net/comics/2014/01/16/o/read52d7da526e7e9/img000011.png
i dont think so, he was probably fighting someone else, while getting knocked out by hakuba(cabbage)
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She got hit in the helmet and if she didn't have it on, she would have likely been KO'ed.
And if Floyd Mayweather had bricks in his gloves he'd knock people out.
I hate those kind of yeah but what if X scenarios. It is what it is, no more and no less.
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This isn't some feminist point that I was making. She got hit in the helmet and if she didn't have it on, she would have likely been KO'ed. She had that same person attack only twice (?) until everyone but her was taken out, then he conveniently didn't bother to attack anymore but slept. That's a massive plot device. Her CoO and speed obviously played a part in her not getting taken out in those two hits, but it was one of the only ways for her to go through the round and potentially win it the next round since the other 3 will be focused on one another if it's a free for all.
Her sob story simply has not connected with me at all. Her sister is another story, same with her father, who I find more interesting.. especially Violet. Rebecca is simply far too boring and the way she won the round made her unlikable at this point.
Count me in !
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Cavendish and Hakuba are the same person, what's so hard to grasp about this. I think you need to reread the defninition of deus ex machina again. It was a convenient intervention that came out of nowhere. And if you're delusional enough to think Rebecca would've won anyway without Hakuba, well then I think we're done here.
I am treating them as separate people because they have different fighting strengths and we are having a conversation comparing fighting strengths. Given that, treating them as the same person makes no sense. I have not misread the deus ex machina definition. I have highlighted for you right there why I think this is not a deus ex machina and you have dismissed it by calling me delusional. So I guess we are done here because you haven't offered any further counter-argument.
Do you seriously think Cavendish would have a shocked expression on his face if it were, say, Jean Ango that took out the giant? No. Because it's not a feat of strength that he'd find impressive. Rebecca, on the other hand, would've been in awe regardless.
I have no idea what kind of reaction that would draw from anyone and neither do you. Your assertions are not backed up by anything.
Again, there was no reason to display Cavendish's power, we've seen plenty of it with his short skirmishes against Chinjao and Luffy (the latter whom pretty much toyed with Rebecca), Oda saved the name characters to be fodderized by Hakuba to show Cavendish is even more of a beast in his "Mr Hyde" form. Sabo says that Rebecca's speed "wasn't solely based on luck" implying a combination of luck and skill, so I don't see how this suddenly makes her some "speed prodigy".
That's a narrative reason but that doesn't really fly without an in-universe explanation. If Cavendish is so much stronger than everyone else there, why, when it actually matters, have we not seen any of it? It's all very well claiming that Cavendish's skirmishes with Chinjao and Luffy count as plenty of proof that he's strong and that Rebecca's skirmish with Luffy is plenty of proof that she's weak, but I find that difficult to buy when in the actual fighting tournament no such strength seems to have come out. No announcer fangasms, no crowd reactions, no nothing. Could it be that, given subsequent evidence, your initial gauge of their respective strengths were wrong?
Again, you're trying to dodge the original point of my argument: that the victory serves no purpose because we as an audience know that Rebecca has not gotten anywhere closer to her goal, nor has she grown as a character. Hence, bad writing. Again, I'd assume getting beaten half to death by Jesus Burgess would be considered "losing something", and if for whatever reason she escapes the round unscathed because Sabo decided to bend over for her, it's again unbelievable writing.
We as the audience know no such thing. We as the audience can make assumptions about the path of the story, but if you're not the one writing it then you can't see the rest of her character arc, so calling bad writing on something based on the bits you haven't read yet is just you being a pessimist.
And look. Rebecca won block D. She didn't lose anything. Not a pyrrhic victory. Just a victory. Things that might happen later but have nothing to do with the battle that you're talking about as resulting in a pyrrhic victory don't matter. That would make all victories ever attained pyrrhic because all participants will eventually die anyway.
Ed Balls
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We have seen countless times that strong guys, doesn't give a shit about Yonkous or Marines (They're no scared), so somebody seeking knowledge can take actions and make a deal with Doflamingo.
Like ….. Cesar Clown?
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work for other Shicibukai?
Nah, If somebody hijacked the Marine ship it will be somebody big but is just an idea, it might no happen but I just don't see him in Impel Down.
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That's a narrative reason but that doesn't really fly without an in-universe explanation. If Cavendish is so much stronger than everyone else there, why, when it actually matters, have we not seen any of it? It's all very well claiming that Cavendish's skirmishes with Chinjao and Luffy count as plenty of proof that he's strong and that Rebecca's skirmish with Luffy is plenty of proof that she's weak, but I find that difficult to buy when in the actual fighting tournament no such strength seems to have come out. No announcer fangasms, no crowd reactions, no nothing. Could it be that, given subsequent evidence, your initial gauge of their respective strengths were wrong?
Kinda hard to gauge anything from D-Block when we were shown so little of it.
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really cool twist on Cavendish. No one saw that coming. Well done Oda.
Although it seems like that block was filled with weaklings. I guess every block thus far has been nothing but weaklings save for the winners(except Don). I wonder how Hakuba would do against Zoro. I'm sure they'll cross swords by the end of this arc.
I still don't care about Rebecca.
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First let me say that everything relating to Rebecca may be biased by the fact that I don't like her.
@Spam286:I am treating them as separate people because they have different fighting strengths and we are having a conversation comparing fighting strengths. Given that, treating them as the same person makes no sense. I have not misread the deus ex machina definition. I have highlighted for you right there why I think this is not a deus ex machina and you have dismissed it by calling me delusional. So I guess we are done here because you haven't offered any further counter-argument.
I do consider Haruka a deus ex machina. Cavendish suddenly goes into that crazy mode which had no build up or hint that makes him blitz everyone except Rebecca and than faint. Rebecca is now the winner. Definitely seemed like a deux ex machina. Why? it can either be for her to win without being a powerhouse or to win without hurting anyone.
@Spam286:That's a narrative reason but that doesn't really fly without an in-universe explanation. If Cavendish is so much stronger than everyone else there, why, when it actually matters, have we not seen any of it? It's all very well claiming that Cavendish's skirmishes with Chinjao and Luffy count as plenty of proof that he's strong and that Rebecca's skirmish with Luffy is plenty of proof that she's weak, but I find that difficult to buy when in the actual fighting tournament no such strength seems to have come out. No announcer fangasms, no crowd reactions, no nothing. Could it be that, given subsequent evidence, your initial gauge of their respective strengths were wrong?
All of the big player had their fans. Cavendish was doing good with no damage taking and taking thing easy as evrything he is in a big smile totally relaxed and clean. The TV was all on him which is why Luffy moved and Everytime we moved to block D it was to see something Rebecca related.
I love how the winner of block D didn't hurt anyone and one of the loser is unscratched.
I hope Oda isn't going to use Hiruka as a way to downplay Cavendish.
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I wonder how much time Cavendish actually sleeps. Must be a lot or else he would have racoon eyes, either that or his make up is just that good.
I wonder if Rebecca had sticked to her "fighting back to the water" fighting style if Hakuba would have fallen offstage.
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Maybe there is no reason to worry about that as Cavendish remains unscathed. There is no reason for him to receive medical treatment, so it's more likely he will not become a toy.
But Bastille and the marines said NONE of the losers have came out, stands to expect that it doesn't matter if he's wounded or not. The DD crew & thugs are not letting the ones who lost, out. I'm sure they have other ways to get them down that chute and become a toy. IF Cavendish wakes up and foils the plan is a different matter.
Perhaps, the sword is cursed Cavendish, she is the cause of the transformation of the swordsman.
Yea but it could be a parasitic demon or some shit, just saying, maybe it started the first time he touched durandal, the spirit possesed him and it takes over his body, when he sleeps. Just sayin, that'd be kinda new, id like that
Luffy touched the sword and nothing happened
Luffy isn't a swordsman. Say that if the sword is cursed and is sentient, Why would Durandal choose a new host that is uses his fists and abandon an excellent swordsman?
thats not what i meant. The idea I had was that the ''user'' gets possesed, once he dies, the spirit goes back into the sword, and waits for a new host. I'm not convinced at all, i should of put that into the theories thread so lets leave it at that, was just a random thought.
I am leaning towards that IF the sword is cursed then could have a sentience to it. After all it is not unprecedented in OP. Zoro has two swords that have attitudes. Remember the one he got in Lougetown?
"The Sandai Kitetsu is one of the Wazamono grade swords, a "Sharp Sword". Like all of its predecessor Kitetsu swords, this one is said to be cursed." [hide]
Zoro felt that it was cursed from the moment he touched it. [ch 97]
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Zoro has commented that the sword appears to have a mind of its own, mentioning that it seemed bloodthirsty, making it a "problem child". [ch 108]
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Zoro can "feel" this sword's presence without even seeing it.[ch 363] … and no it wasn't CoO, it was him being able t sense the curse.
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http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/05/05/o/read4dc2da4e7e1ce/One_Piece-363-11.png [/hide]
" [/hide]Then there is the sword won from Ryuma, Shusui. in ch 474 (pg 5) Zoro comments that its also a 'problem child'
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[/hide]With the history of those, I have no problem seeing another cursed semi-sentient sword. In the OP world things are so odd that its possible one cursed sword have enough sentience to possess a user.
One interesting trivia tidbit is that "in the Water 7 arc, Chopper handles the sword Sandai Kitetsu for a period of time, and he is unaffected by its curse.So goes with my above comment of maybe the swords don't bother with non-swordsmen ..or ones that are not worthy (that is have a good enough skill to weild them) -
But Bastille and the marines said NONE of the losers have came out, stands to expect that it doesn't matter if he's wounded or not. The DD crew & thugs are not letting the ones who lost, out. I'm sure they have other ways to get them down that chute and become a toy. IF Cavendish wakes up and foils the plan is a different matter.
Well, every loser so far was more or less hurt. Even those who got minor injuries like Sai were sent to have medical care. Cavendish is the only one who lost and was not hurt at all (after all, he technically won), so he may not end up there.
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Kinda hard to gauge anything from D-Block when we were shown so little of it.
True. For the purposes of all these arguments block D was poor. There's no solid evidence for anything save what happened right at the end. We can't just ignore it though, it is after all the first genuine fight both Cavendish and Rebecca have been involved in, and the outcome of it up until the advent of Hakuba put both of them on equal footing in that they were both still in and both unscathed. Not much to go on, but more than nothing and shouldn't be dismissed, especially since the result of Hakuba was proving Rebecca better than all the other characters (to whatever degree you believe it did) and leaving Cavendish's usual personality as unknown in that regard.
First let me say that everything relating to Rebecca may be biased by the fact that I don't like her.
I'll allow it. (You may have noticed that I quite like her ;))
I do consider Haruka a deus ex machina. Cavendish suddenly goes into that crazy mode which had no build up or hint that makes him blitz everyone except Rebecca and than faint. Rebecca is now the winner. Definitely seemed like a deux ex machina. Why? it can either be for her to win without being a powerhouse or to win without hurting anyone.
It still depends on whether you believe Rebecca was in an inescapable pinch before Hakuba. Since the rest of block D didn't happen we can't know, but there was nothing overt to suggest she couldn't have won the block despite the constraints on her (i.e. not directly hurting her opponents and not being excessively more powerful than them.) I say overt because I foresee nit-pickers rushing to exert their interpretations of Rebecca and Cavendish's relative strength. For something to really be a deus ex machina there needs to be some manner of apparently insurmountable peril, and there wasn't.
All of the big player had their fans. Cavendish was doing good with no damage taking and taking thing easy as evrything he is in a big smile totally relaxed and clean. The TV was all on him which is why Luffy moved and Everytime we moved to block D it was to see something Rebecca related.
Right, so he was doing fine, but he also wasn't doing anything noteworthy. Palpitoad is trying to suggest that Rebecca stood absolutely no chance against him by pointing out that Rebecca hasn't been able to take out any named members of block D. My argument is that Cavendish hasn't either and there must be a reason for that. My suggestion is that he's not as strong as all that. It's fine to say that he doesn't need to for narrative reasons, but what is the in-universe reason? If he's that much more powerful than Rebecca then he should be dominating, but he wasn't. Why?
Ed Balls
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I don't know, I dislike the existence of a second persona for Cavendish. It also seemed like many knew about it, but no one mentioned anything before this chapter - Oda might have planned this a long time ago, sure, but to me it just feels weird. I found Cavendish interesting enough on his own before this already.
But in this particular instance? I think that's what the poster wanted to know, if the statement literally read "twice as strong" in Japanese.
who knew?the only one who knew about hakuba was bastille
