Well I honestly hope it isn't the case
It is probably the only way a yakuza boss could go about caring for a kid off the street. If she was a product he was grooming nobody would look twice, it ain't a bad cover from that angle
Well I honestly hope it isn't the case
It is probably the only way a yakuza boss could go about caring for a kid off the street. If she was a product he was grooming nobody would look twice, it ain't a bad cover from that angle
Orochi Fan Club's Number 1 Hater - Denjiro
So Hiyori becomes Shogun and Momo becomes full time Pirate? W/o her Kozuki name, Hiyori has gained the love of the people as Komursaki like Toki did in Oden's absence. Momo has the Udon prisoners through Luffy's actions. He has to do something on his own like defeat Orochi or show some sign of honor like his father did.
I doubt running a con on the people of the capital based on you being a great companion count as gaining the people's love.
I doubt running a con on the people of the capital based on you being a great companion count as gaining the people's love.
Boa runs her country, partially off her beauty tho and she hides her slave days from them. Hyori and Denjiro have taken care of the poor through that con
It is probably the only way a yakuza boss could go about caring for a kid off the street. If she was a product he was grooming nobody would look twice, it ain't a bad cover from that angle
Yeah I actually prefer the idea that Denjiro and Hiyori had to get dirty to survive. Instead of clearly being good guys and everyone being too moronic too notice. Although now I wonder what the playing music was about. Maybe Momo gets the throne and Hiyori goes to music?
And yes, how Oden's swords ended with Hitetsu is a bit foggy, but that can easily be cleared later with a few flashback panels.
.
We saw Oden giving the swords to Toki in previous chapter.
Boa runs her country, partially off her beauty tho and she hides her slave days from them. Hyori and Denjiro have taken care of the poor through that con
They love Boa because she the most badass ever to them and the amazon are all about strength. I'm not sure being hot would help sell people that she should rule them.
You can compare for yourself. Maybe Oda made them look the same on accident.
They definitely didn't look the same.
They love Boa because she the most badass ever to them and the amazon are all about strength. I'm not sure being hot would help sell people that she should rule them.
They took care of the people for 20 years as Orochi and Kaido destroyed it. Don't need a scale to tell the difference. When Boa turned Marguerite into stone, they were okay with it because they couldn't hate her and her beauty was spammed as part of the reason.
They took care of the people for 20 years as Orochi and Kaido destroyed it. Don't need a scale to tell the difference. When Boa turned Marguerite into stone, they were okay with it because they couldn't hate her and her beauty was spammed as part of the reason.
So you're going for the witching hour Boy helper of the people ruling them not the great concubine Komurasaki ruling them. Then sure.
I was just saying I don't think Hiyori time as the great concubine would help. Or if it does I would find it silly.
So Hiyori becomes Shogun and Momo becomes full time Pirate? W/o her Kozuki name, Hiyori has gained the love of the people as Komursaki like Toki did in Oden's absence. Momo has the Udon prisoners through Luffy's actions. He has to do something on his own like defeat Orochi or show some sign of honor like his father did.
He about to throw an island sized elephant on Kaido's ass.
Sorry, non-sequitur. My Brilliant Friend fan?
Sorry to the other users for the off topic by the way yes i am! My favourite tv series right now :wub:
He about to throw an island sized elephant on Kaido's ass.
Kaido wants that to see if he could survive it
So Hiyori becomes Shogun and Momo becomes full time Pirate? W/o her Kozuki name, Hiyori has gained the love of the people as Komursaki like Toki did in Oden's absence. Momo has the Udon prisoners through Luffy's actions. He has to do something on his own like defeat Orochi or show some sign of honor like his father did.
Agreed! And interesting scenario.
So you're going for the witching hour Boy helper of the people ruling them not the great concubine Komurasaki ruling them. Then sure.
I was just saying I don't think Hiyori time as the great concubine would help. Or if it does I would find it silly.
She was an "oiran" not a "concubine".
She likely helped "witching hour boy" by playing the rich assholes as well.
We saw Oden giving the swords to Toki in previous chapter.
I know. The part I'm unclear about is, who left the burning castle with the swords (Kawamatsu/Hyori I'm assuming) and when did they place them under Hitetsu's care (some time before or right after they got separated, most likely, since Hyori knew their whereabouts yet didn't show up in the capital with them).
Lmao, the rollercoaster of emotions the Wano kunians are going for.
Woaaah the nine red scabbards, Toki was right all along, we're saveeed!!
-Wait a minute, isnt that fat asshole, the one who's been stealing food for him and hus bandits? And would even steal from leftovers town?
-Eeey look at that one, its Kyoshiro, he supported Orochi's dictatorship for 20 years
Whaaat, Princess Hiyori is alive!!!
-eeey, isn't that the woman who's been scamming dudes??
Prince Momonosuke is baaack!!
-Woaaaah another Dragon, please noooo!!
Kin'emon- I can Explain this!!
-You better do.
Kin'emon- uhmmm….. Shushui is back!!
Everyone- YAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!
So by the way, Numbers.
Totally forgot about' em.
So Hiyori becomes Shogun
That's what I've been hoping for a while, yes. Hiyori is also a Kozuki and, unlike her brother, she actually went through the same shit under Orochi and Kaido's rule as the rest of the country. She lived through Wano's worst years like one of its citizens, while Momonosuke was spared of everything and skipped 20 years. He barely even knows Wano at this point and all the respect he gets is simply because of the name he carries, not something he actually earned.
Hiyory becoming the Shogun would also fit the theme of Wano opening itself to the influence of the outside world and moving away from its backwards views (although this one would work better if the gender roles in Wano were more focused on, but we don't hear about it since Kin'emon freaked out over Nami clothes back in Punk Hazard).
Not to mention somehow people think being 8 years old means Momonosuke is too young to be on a pirate crew (ignore the fact he was born on a pirate ship and spent his first two years living there with the crew), but somehow is a proper age for him to rule a country. Not saying he is going to become a pirate, though, he could just wish to become a samurai for all I care.
Hiyori has no wang.
No wang, no shogunate
It's hard to believe that from Momo's perspective all this happened few months ago. Underwent quite a change.
The pacing and maybe a few other things felt off for this chapter, like it felt too rushed. Though I'm also very forgetful for when things have happened in past chapters.
Was the part where Oden talked about the relationship between the Minks and Kozuki family happening shortly after Oden and his new family arrived to Wano? I'm going to have to reread the chapters, as I just remember him arriving in Wano after his crew disbanded, learning how bad Wano has become and getting angry at Orochi.
Shinobu just seemed to have disappeared after the vassal conversation.
Toki, as well as her daughter too I guess, somehow surviving an encounter with Kaido. Kaido only seemed to want to focus on Killing, later taunting, Momo? I guess only Momo has the ability to become Shogun? Toki was just the wife and could only go back to royalty if she married the next Shogun or whoever? The next person marrying Hiyori if that ever happens won't ever get the chance to become Shogun? I can't remember how the system worked in Japan, or in One Piece.
I could understand Kaido not dropping Momo and instead testing him through fire if Kaido somehow strangely respects Oden and assumed Momo could also end up being a worthy opponent if Momo ends up surviving the fire. Wonder if he thought the same for Hiyori, or if he and his pirate crew just didn't want to murder kids with their own hands.
I apparently forgot about the backup plan to keep Hiyori in the current time in case the jump failed so that threw me off at first. I wish we saw more of Toki's power. Her giving the speech without any of the people that jumped to the future, in the view/panel, seemed weird. Like did she already send them to the future during the previous or so page? And later did she only have enough energy to find some citizens and give a speech before collapsing to her death as sending 5 people to the future is harmful?
The panel with Denjiro and Kyoshiro side-by-side was confusing as heck. Also lol @ The anime opening spoiling this.
How the heck did Kawamatsu lose Hiyori? Thank fuck she ended up meeting Denjiro again.
Hiyori has no wang.
No wang, no shogunate
You nailed it.
Seriously though. It would have been cool if Hiyori became a samurai. Instead she becomes an oiran and the sword that was given to her was just given to Zoro instead.
This chapter also reveals why Momo is so perverted at such a young age: Oden raised him like that. I guess it was to be expected considered he used to hang out in the red light district as a kid himself.
After 2 weeks break and what Toki said on the previous chapter, I thought this flashback is over. Then, after I read the first panel of this chapter, danggg I immediately know it will be another flashback.
Chapter is amazing for breaking long buzzing theories , but the confusion level in it is intermediate :blink:.
I wonder why Kaido didn't directly kill Momo, is this some kind of fighters attitude? Momo's words also shock me. Or maybe his word reminiscing Kadio about someone's dream, Shirohige or someone on the Rocks pirate.
I am disappointed that Yasuie not appearing to protect the Kozuki on the chapter.
Kyoshiro transformation is also confusing, at first I thought there are 2 Kyoshiro.
Toki is like Luffy, she don't do SPOILER.
The shivering Orochi is on point, what a character. Pure villain.
Hope Oda is doing just fine. He works really hard.
Btw, we still dont know how Inu and Neko back to Zou? So, another flashback? LOL
@.access:
That's what I've been hoping for a while, yes. Hiyori is also a Kozuki and, unlike her brother, she actually went through the same shit under Orochi and Kaido's rule as the rest of the country. She lived through Wano's worst years like one of its citizens, while Momonosuke was spared of everything and skipped 20 years. He barely even knows Wano at this point and all the respect he gets is simply because of the name he carries, not something he actually earned.
Hiyory becoming the Shogun would also fit the theme of Wano opening itself to the influence of the outside world and moving away from its backwards views (although this one would work better if the gender roles in Wano were more focused on, but we don't hear about it since Kin'emon freaked out over Nami clothes back in Punk Hazard).Not to mention somehow people think being 8 years old means Momonosuke is too young to be on a pirate crew (ignore the fact he was born on a pirate ship and spent his first two years living there with the crew), but somehow is a proper age for him to rule a country. Not saying he is going to become a pirate, though, he could just wish to become a samurai for all I care.
Well in regards to being the Shogun, it's what he's actually setup for, and it was already established back in Zou that they are fine with helping Momo rule until he's older. As for needing to earn respect/break away from his father's immense shadow, that appears to be his character arc.
Anyways, it's not like people are intentionally dismissing Hiyori as an alternative, they all think she's dead. Not to say there would be no eventual sexism there, but first and foremost they just want someone from the Kozuki Clan to rally behind.
Translation didn't make me see how Hiyori family treated her in a better light.
Must be nice to be a backup plan and be knowingly put through suffering for years, hmm
Why couldn't she time flash them both and have her stay out of Kaidou sight and the entire war if she was to be a back up plan?
Instead she was put into danger in a situation of poverty and when she could die anytime.
Flash forward 20 years and I don't see a difference.
Current situation if she and Momo dies in this arc, it doesn't even matter.
How is she a back up plan if she is going to get involved in 20 years anyway.There was no reason for her to suffer for 20 years.
Such a bad taste to an otherwise good flashback.
There is a difference because it isn't that straightforward.
It is probably the first time Toki is using her powers to send people into the future. She had only sent herself before.
So, it is not 100% that it would be successful. What if they somehow got stuck in a time-space reality. Or end up being 25, 30 years later instead of 20. Or if they time travelled 20 years but ended up being in some other place than Wano and could not find their way back in time or die before they find Wano. These are all the possibilities that could happen,and why someone had to stay back as a backup plan, just in case for some reason they do not appear after the 20 years.
so that she would be able to take the lead and tell the "someone who appears to take down Kaidou after 20years" what had happened and help them to take down Kaidou on her own with the remaining scabbards.
I will respectfully disagree.
It's a little bit troublesome to post picture, but the difference is easy to spot.
Wado Ichimonji is very clean visually, causa it basically doesn't have any kind of adornment other than the tip of the scabbard. On the other hand, Denjiro's sword had a lot of weird details all over it.
Hoo boy, this panel now has a whole new meaning.
"It is good to have you on my side", LMAO. Orochi you piece of shit, I'm going to thoroughly enjoy every minute of your downfall.
Is there any wordplay between Denjiro and Kyoshiro? Considering that the second parts of the names are almost the same.
How the heck did Kawamatsu lose Hiyori? Thank fuck she ended up meeting Denjiro again.
Hiyori ran away because she was feeling sorry for Kawamatsu because he was always hungry while trying to take care of her.
As the last chapter said, the story certainly is hurtling toward the present day. That was probably the right choice, pacing-wise, since most of the things that happen here have been discussed at least once already. I see this being the last full chapter of flashback. There'll be a few more pages with black gutters at the start of the next one, maybe half the chapter, but then we're back to the present, probably just in time to use Luffy's reappearance and the announcing of a present-day counterattack as the end-of-volume cliffhanger.
The history of Wano, Oden, Orochi and Kaido has been something of a puzzle not just for the Wano arc but for almost all of the New World to date. Oda started sowing jigsaw pieces around the place as far back as Kinemon's introduction all the way back in 2012. Over the past eight years we've been getting all these little, vague hints, and this was the point where Oda finally put them together into a picture. While it's obvious he knew the big moments, like Kaido being a dragon, the samurai being from the past and Oden, we also know that Oda will often sort out the fine details as he goes and make changes as he puts the chapters together, so it must have been just as much of a problem-solving exercise for him as it was for us. How often did he have to reconcile what he established years ago with stuff he came up with on the spot today? How how many of the long-term hints were added on a whim and now had to be worked into the planned framework of the story? I'd love to hear more about the process of planning and writing this whole arc at some point, whether it comes from Greg when Wano is less current and his hands aren't tied for behind the scenes stuff, or whether it comes up in an interview with Oda or an editor further down the line.
Despite the sheer number of plot points and offhand dialogue hint puzzle pieces that needed to be worked into the final tapestry here, Oda has done remarkably well with continuity. But there are two little points where he has perhaps taken the scissors to his jiggies to make them fit.
The first thing is from chapter 818:
Obviously we know now that Oden's execution didn't really have anything to do with his journey with Roger or the secrets he learned about the world. It was a pure power grab from Orochi that Kaido played along with because it benefited his interests. It's not even as if they used the crime of exiting the country as fodder at Oden's offscreen mock trial - the narration in chapter 970 says the crime he was tried for was "rebellion against the shogun." We could maybe take the chapter 818 scene is something disingenuous from Kinemon, who sees the flow-on from Oden's journey with Roger to trying to open Wano's borders to the rebellion that got him executed, and is laying out the root cause from his own perspective, but that does feel like a little bit of a stretch to me.
It would also still leave the line about Kaido attempting to get information as an outlier, but I think that actually can be made to work with what we know. Kaido didn't seem to have any real interest in being King of the Pirates or finding the One Piece in the flashback, but that could have changed over 20 years. I don't know what the original Japanese says, but Kin says "Kaido is trying to pry information out of us." Not was, but is. In chapter 819, we get this exchange:
This makes it seem like people trying to learn the secrets of the world from the samurai is mainly a post-timejump problem, something that's been affecting them mostly as they move through the present, not something that only happened in the past. Suppose Kaido only decided he cared about the One Piece during the past 20 years. Suppose he left standing orders that should the samurai reappear his underlings should grill them for information. The best time for Kin's group to learn that would be when they were exploring Wano after the jump, maybe from Shinobu having picked it up while spying in the palace.
It's a little inelegant, and it would be great to have the reasoning set in stone, even by an SBS, but it can be made to work.
The second little issue, from chapter 922:
There are exactly two points in time where Ashura and Denjiro could have confronted Kaido like this, and there were no echoes of this memory in either of them. In the battle in chapter 970, Denjiro is show fighting close to Oden and Kanjuro, but never Ashura, and it can't have happened after Oden was knocked out, because Ashura was backstabbed and fell almost immediately after. The framing of the memory is similar to the scene in chapter 973 where they drop back to buy some time for the rest, but there they seem to be facing one of the Numbers, not Kaido himself. Even though neither Ashura or Denjiro was sent to the future, this couldn't have happened during the 20 years due to Denjiro's transformation. So when did it happen?
Well, it could have happened offscreen in chapter 973. The pair dispatch a Number, then are quickly knocked down by Kaido before he hurries to overtake Kin on the way to Kuri Castle, but it is a little bit of a shame not to have shown it. It wouldn't totally shock me if the panel was edited to a more Kaido-y silhouette for the volume release.
Overall, Oden's story has been a strong bit of long-form storytelling, even with its two little continuity glitches here. I look forward to Oda fast-talking his way around the issues and providing bullshit-but-believable explanations in a future SBS.
As for chapter 973 itself, it's a rapid-fire, dramatic conclusion to the flashback now that the climactic moment has come and gone. Most of the first half served to connect the dots between past and present and tick off the last few plot boxes. I was expecting a little more from Kaido and Momo's meeting. An interrogation about his father's travels. The same holding-him-over-a-drop thing but during a dizzying dragon flight to really justify Momo's fears of dragons and heights. But we have to remember that the child is young and that this night was only a couple of months ago from his perspective. These wounds are still incredibly raw. It can just be hard to keep that in mind because it's technically been 20 years in-universe, and eight in the real world.
The Kyoshiro reveal is an excellent twist, even if the explanation for the face change is ridiculous. But the layers it adds to Kyoshiro's previous scenes are amazing. Go reread any of his dialogue to date, especially regarding Orochi and it's all put in a totally different light. I've been saying it again and again over the past few chapters, but Wano really is an arc built for the reread, and this is just another way it's going to be better the second time around.
Hyori as Komurasaki isn't really a reveal due to how it's been framed, but it is important to note that this is the first time it's been directly stated to the readers. So there you go, another thing confirmed.
As said above, I expect the first half of the next chapter to rapidly bring us up to speed with the present, mostly doing little continuity housekeeping things. I want to see how Cat and Dog managed to get off Wano, given that they were seemingly captured and the country has so few ships. Maybe Kaido's men chose to toss them over the waterfall like the outsiders they are as a means of execution. I'd like to see Kaido developing an interest in the One Piece and the secrets of the world, just to justify the above continuity issue (but this could come in a later Kaido flashback) and I'd like to see how Denjiro and Hyori pulled off her fake death. Then we'll probably see Denjiro putting his plan for the promised night into action to get the plan back on track, building up to the reintroduction of the Straw Hats for the last page of the chapter and volume. After all these months, that's going to be a hell of a feeling.
Really enjoyed this chapter and found Kaidou's conversation with Momo to be really intriguing. Like what is he talking about? Seems like something that is to be fleshed out later. And I can't wait to go back and reread the arc with Denjiro's secret in mind.
Can't wait to get to the present and see how the crew outsmarted Orochi and how their actions and abilities will surpass the Scabbards wildest dreams and expectations.
Additional thoughts I almost forgot to mention: Toki ended up a pretty flat character in this flashback, but I'm sure her time with us isn't up yet. To be clear, I don't think she's alive, just that we're going to go back to her. The things about the past that she told Oden (or maybe Momo or Hyori) seem like they'd best be brought up as an Act Five or epilogue thing, especially considering that this kind of info is likely to send the story hurtling into its endgame. So yeah, I'm not massively impressed with Toki right now, but I'm reserving judgement until the arc is over and we've seen her full story.
And finally, it's ridiculous how often the idea comes up (especially on Reddit) that the anime spoiled the Denjiro reveal. This is dumb. I get wanting to have an untainted experience, but sometimes spoiler culture just feels a little ridiculous. To me, the images in the anime opening left too much doubt as to whether they actually meant what they were implying. Can it really be said that it gave the reveal away when people have been debating whether or not it actually did that for a whole nine months? If it's only a spoiler in hindsight, was it really a spoiler, or was it just another hint that could have gone any number of ways? I don't want to tell people how to enjoy their media, I just don't get some of the reactions to this thing.
Nah, you're wrong. They definitely spoiled for those who weren't that skeptical. I don't mind it, but if someone else wasn't suspecting him as much, that sucks for them.
Oh so good for the people who don't watch the anime or go on the big sites to discuss one piece.
Now that the flashback is over, these are a few things I observed:
1. Making to the end of the world or achieving your dreams can make life blase. This can be seen in how none of the Gol D. Roger pirates made anything meaningful of themselves after Laugh Tale. They just gave up on everything and set their sight on the prophecy.
2. Oden seemed to have a premonition of his death and in the 5 years of dancing didn't do enough to plan for Orochi's deception.
3. Kaido is a conflicted individual who's trying to bury his pains in drink and war. His will to live is almost lost and this is probably because of all the evil he has done in the past.
4. The concept of the barrier barrier fruit is troubling. The wielder of such a power seems completely untouchable. That makes no sense to me in a world where powers are honed and harnessed over a spectrum.
5. If Kaido likes to use his club to pummel enemies so much, why does he bother fighting in Dragon for
6. Oda needs to tighten his story telling as his readers are now older and demand more from his writing.
As we move to the present there's a lot of puzzles that I look forward to Oda addressing not least the traitor puzzle. Oda writes the most irresolvable puzzles till he unravels them. My biggest puzzles remain the following: Luffy, after gaining the powers of foresight from his observation haki, was unable to evade Kaido's club. How will a fortnight of training his COA without training for COO help him in this fight? And, isn't a few days of training a little too late? Another puzzle is how can these crew of upstarts hope to beat two emperors?
Now that the flashback is over, these are a few things I observed:
1. Making to the end of the world or achieving your dreams can make life blase. This can be seen in how none of the Gol D. Roger pirates made anything meaningful of themselves after Laugh Tale. They just gave up on everything and set their sight on the prophecy.
Where was this part confirmed?
I'd say Law can cut the bari bari barrier as long as its inside his room
Also Teach could wipe Barto's ass every other day with his deactivation ability
I'd also like to see how Big Mom or Kaido break Barto's barrier, only to show that there is nothing indestructible in this world.
I'd also like to see how Big Mom or Kaido break Barto's barrier, only to show that there is nothing indestructible in this world.
They wouldn't break it either. That's the whole point of it. Doesn't mean he's invincible, but yea
I don't see how Kaido or Big Mom would ever go against Bartolomeo though.
Although I'd be surprised if no one is ever shown breaking the barrier. I think it's just a matter of having the right "devil fruit" or the right "armament". Et cetera et cetera.
I don't see how Kaido or Big Mom would ever go against Bartolomeo though.
Although I'd be surprised if no one is ever shown breaking the barrier. I think it's just a matter of having the right "devil fruit" or the right "armament". Et cetera et cetera.
If Barto shows fear with BM, he's doomed
I guess barto barrier is like jozu. Maybe aokiji can just freeze him and his barrier to death, no need to break it. There is also perona or brook with their ghost that can go past it, maybe even homies of bm.
It's the only thing barto got, he didn't show haki or any relevant strength feat, so it will likely never break. It's the fanboy shield, protecting SHs from criticism, you can't break it.:ninja:
Where was this part confirmed?
The three Roger pirates we've seen or read about that reached Laugh Tale are Raleigh, Crocus, and Oden. Crocus we meet as a hermit living with a whale, Raleigh is gambler and a drink living day by day as the wind blows, and we just saw what happened to Oden. Shanks and Buggy didn't reach Laugh Tale so they're excluded.
Perona's ghosts and Kuma's Ursus shock could pass thru.
And Pica could use the stone floor to his advantage
And there's no way Barto wouldn't fall for a Merrow Merrow from Hancock
I think, in the end, the prophecy that they were not the chosen ones flattened the Roger Pirates will to go on and achieve greater. They set their sight out for the future generations. This, to some extent, explains Shanks and Raleigh's attachment to Luffy. They believe very much that he is the one.
The three Roger pirates we've seen or read about that reached Laugh Tale are Raleigh, Crocus, and Oden. Crocus we meet as a hermit living with a whale, Raleigh is gambler and a drink living day by day as the wind blows, and we just saw what happened to Oden. Shanks and Buggy didn't reach Laugh Tale so they're excluded.
Crocus goal was to find Brook's crew and he failed. We don't know what Rayleigh's goal was outside of being a Roger Pirate and if he achieved it in all of the years that we don't know of. Oden's dream is being carried out now by his Scabbards. Buggy and Shanks are applicable, but what about the rest of the crew? You said "none" if i'm not mistaken. How do we know that Rayleigh nor the others accomplished what their goals were outside of reaching Raftel?
If Barto shows fear with BM, he's doomed
Yeah but I'm talking about what might actually happen. Last I remember of Bartolomeo he was burning Shanks flag so he is going to pay for that.
I can totally imagine him thinking his barrier is indestructible like some readers do and Shanks coming along and destroying it.