Usopp almost always gets good material in the arcs he's in. I'm okay with him taking a backseat in one.
Official Wano Thread
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Its been near 300 chapters since he sniped Sugar
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Usopp needs to get some Busoshoku Haki pronto, because it's going to get tougher from here and he needs to be able to take on people like Page One and actually win.
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The pessimist in me wants to say why bother.
But i'm sure i'll let myself be suckered into believing once again.
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Really goes to show how Carrot was completely sidelined in Wano.
Also, lol Jack.
Also that Yaamto is that high up when he missed the first two years of the arc!
If the count started from the invasion he'd probably be in the top five, as would Big Mom.
I hope the blueballing ends soon on the Kaido flashback. If there is none I will be quite disappointed with the lack of emotional investment this Kaido battle is going to have. We've got a lot fragments and hints from other characters but I'm still strongly convinced that a Kaido flashback is absolutely integral to tie it all together emotionally and have Kaido become more than simply a force of nature and actually an engaging villain.
I've been saying for ages THE time to do that would be after all the other battles were out of the way, so that a lengthy pause is ONLY adding context to the Kaidou final clash, and not interupting anything else. With Big Mom down that leaves just a handful of odds and ends, so the time is probably soon.
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I actually have a good notion on why to be optimistic about Usopp in the future. The future arcs have to be Elbaf AND something involving Shanks crew (assuming these both aren't the same arc). While I'm sure Usopp will get his ass kicked a bunch of times during that, at the very least that's going to give him a good deal of screen time. Wano might be kind of like how Skypiea sucked for Usopp, but it lead to his time in Water 7 earlier.
Yes, I'm posting this in spite of what DarthAstma is saying. It's weird that Oda only gave Usopp one good moment like 10 years ago, but I'm going with the assumption that he wants Usopp to look weak now so he can be strong later. My other example is how Sanji got more or less overpowered by Vergo and Donflamingo, yet later he got major time in one arc and a major powerup later.
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I've been saying for ages THE time to do that would be after all the other battles were out of the way, so that a lengthy pause is ONLY adding context to the Kaidou final clash, and not interupting anything else. With Big Mom down that leaves just a handful of odds and ends, so the time is probably soon.
Same. I have faith. It was more the feeling that the rest took this long but we should get it soon. But also def a tiny bit worried Oda maybe thinking he can skip it and just roll parts of it into a rocks flashback or something, I dunno.
I just know right now as it stands I think Kaido still needs that extra characterization for me to be really invested. Truth to be told being a horrible piece of shit hasn't really drawn me in since the celestial dragons cause they're literally already the worst. So no villain after that could surpass it and match their hateability on being scumbags for me.
That means for me it's always been post timeskip the flashbacks that did the work of making those villains really good for me. Takeout the Doffy, BM flashbacks and it doesn't work as well for me anymore. Hody is a bit of a special case in the sense that he works off the Tiger flashback as well with his own lil scenes but it follows the same idea in my mind as having a flashback flesh him out even if indirectly. It's that extra glimpse on seeing how these villains tick and not really their bad deeds that have been consistently what got me engaged into wanting them being beaten post timeskip. -
Usopp almost always gets good material in the arcs he's in. I'm okay with him taking a backseat in one.
If this was before he was found to have Obversation Haki, then I prob would have agreed more, but seeing as how what happened with Ulti was after, then I can't quite say it was satisfactory for him to have backdated at Wano. Even him just admitting that he needed to better his Haki skills alongside Nami getting Zeus after she also got attacked would have sufficed for me. Too bad that didn't happen though.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also that Yaamto is that high up when he missed the first two years of the arc!
If the count started from the invasion he'd probably be in the top five, as would Big Mom.
I've been saying for ages THE time to do that would be after all the other battles were out of the way, so that a lengthy pause is ONLY adding context to the Kaidou final clash, and not interupting anything else. With Big Mom down that leaves just a handful of odds and ends, so the time is probably soon.
Also interesting, that Zoro has met with every living character that has had 290+ panels except for Yamato, herself having gotten more panel time than Tama, even though Tama appeared awhile before Yamato too.
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When all is said and done I have a hard time imagining not feeling like Wano had too many characters that didn't need to exist and first on my personal chopping block would have been the Hyogoro and the Yakuza. Could have easily just taken a scabbard spot instead and fulfilled essentially the same role.
Some scabbards are also… like, just there. Not contributing enough. Remember the last time we see Denjiro?
Do we really need NINE scabbards? If I'm being harsh, you could cut Kawamatsu, Kiku, Denjiro, Raizo and Ashura. The Raizo spot could go to Kanjuro as the damsel in distress/secretly double agent. Kawamatsu/Kiku/Denjiro could be condensed into 1 person. Hell I'd argue you could cut off Izou as a reinforcement too, in his place we got Marco anyway.
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Some scabbards are also… like, just there. Not contributing enough. Remember the last time we see Denjiro?
Do we really need NINE scabbards? If I'm being harsh, you could cut Kawamatsu, Kiku, Denjiro, Raizo and Ashura. The Raizo spot could go to Kanjuro as the damsel in distress/secretly double agent. Kawamatsu/Kiku/Denjiro could be condensed into 1 person. Hell I'd argue you could cut off Izou as a reinforcement too, in his place we got Marco anyway.
I don't think we need to cut out Scabbards, just Kaido defeating them for real would be enough.
We did not need to see all nine get up. That killed the stakes and hurt the pacing. They should have remained mostly helpless. An injured Ashura could still have protected them from Kanjuro's trick. One or two of them still able to fight could have rushed to Momonosuke. Leave the others helpless, they could even work to raise the stakes by being targeted by the enemies (like they were when we first saw them in the dark room).
Also, Jack could have had only one fight (on the roof top). Give it half a chapter early, then leave him out permanently. And Perospero could have remained out of Onigashima entirely.
Fukurokuju's vendetta with Raizou has been completely pointless, thought it remains to be seen if it will have any importance in the end.
Maybe even Orochi being offed by Kaido could have been better for pacing. Thought we haven't reached the end of that plot, so it's hard to say.
I bet there are other things that could be trimmed to improve pacing and allow some other plots and characters more room to breathe.
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I don't think we need to cut out Scabbards, just Kaido defeating them for real would be enough.
We did not need to see all nine get up. That killed the stakes and hurt the pacing. They should have remained mostly helpless. An injured Ashura could still have protected them from Kanjuro's trick. One or two of them still able to fight could have rushed to Momonosuke. Leave the others helpless, they could even work to raise the stakes by being targeted by the enemies (like they were when we first saw them in the dark room).
Also, Jack could have had only one fight (on the roof top). Give it half a chapter early, then leave him out permanently. And Perospero could have remained out of Onigashima entirely.
Fukurokuju's vendetta with Raizou has been completely pointless, thought it remains to be seen if it will have any importance in the end.
Maybe even Orochi being offed by Kaido could have been better for pacing. Thought we haven't reached the end of that plot, so it's hard to say.
I bet there are other things that could be trimmed to improve pacing and allow some other plots and characters more room to breathe.
I still think Kawamatsu and Ashura have added nothing to the story and could've easily been cut. Denjiro did their jobs anyway (dude worked as a thief and took care of Hiyori), and you would have a nice number of 7 Scabbards to reference the Seven Samurai.
In the end, you end up with 9 different figures running around aimlessly with only a few doing anything of importance.
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My conclusions regarding each of the Straw Hats in the Wano Arc summed up:
Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Robin: One of their best arcs
Usopp, Franky, Brook: Not one of their best arcs
Nami, Chopper, Jinbe: Uncertain
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I mean Usopp didnt get to shine in one arc. Its not yet a pattern. Its just that the one arc he isnt shining in is very long.
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I mean Usopp didnt get to shine in one arc. Its not yet a pattern. Its just that the one arc he isnt shining in is very long.
Nonetheless, I still think that Dressrosa is a better Usopp arc than Wano. lol
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My conclusions regarding each of the Straw Hats in the Wano Arc summed up:
Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Robin: One of their best arcs
Usopp, Franky, Brook: Not one of their best arcs
Nami, Chopper, Jinbe: Uncertain
Chopper in uncertain? But he mass cured people from a deadly virus.
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@All:
Chopper in uncertain? But he mass cured people from a deadly virus.
I know that, along with his attack against Queen, but his showcase as a whole still ends up feeling kinda hollow to me somehow.
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I know that, along with his attack against Queen, but his showcase as a whole still ends up feeling kinda hollow to me somehow.
Is there any of the Numbers still around?
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My conclusions regarding each of the Straw Hats in the Wano Arc summed up:
Sanji(breaking suit), Chopper(helping as a doctor), Franky(running mom), Brook(he's there) : One of their best arcs
Nami(wasted fight),Jinbe(barely do stuff),Robin(not that sucessful as spy and not lot of personal stake in fight): Not one of their best arcs
Luffy, Zoro, Usopp: Uncertain
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Nonetheless, I still think that Dressrosa is a better Usopp arc than Wano. lol
Well, Dressrosa was a pretty good arc for Usopp in general. Becoming the legendary hero of the dwarfs, the God Usopp stuff, unlocking his Observation haki…good stuff.
While I do think the complaints that Usopp got sidelined in a major arc like this are completely valid, yet I also feel it's a bit silly and premature to say that Oda doesn't care about Usopp anymore.
It has always been the case that some of the Strawhats got more focus in an arc while others were mostly sidelined, even back when the crew was much smaller. Sanji in Little Garden, Zoro and Usopp in Drum, Sanji and Usopp in Skypiea etc. This has only increased as the crew got larger and larger, and Oda has handled it by splitting up the crew for longer arcs and then only focusing on half of the crew at a time
Splitting up the crew though, of course, had the negative side effect of some of the characters not appearing or getting any significant moments for hundreds of chapters, which is of course due to the fact recent arcs have become super long and bloated. But Oda's pattern of sidelining Strawhats and then giving them focus in the next arc is still true - Nami, Sanji, Chopper and Brook basically sitting out Dressrosa and then getting major focus in Whole Cake Island is a good example of that. You could have argued that Oda doesn't care about those characters anymore while reading Dressrosa and you would have been wrong. (Getting focus doesn't necessarily equal getting a fight in an arc, or else you would have to argue that Nami didn't get any focus for the first 200 chapters of the manga).
One also has to distinguish between a character not getting any focus or paneltime and a character not getting the kind of focus you or I wanted. Many people seemed to have been disappointed that Sanji didn't get a fight in WCI, but it would be ridiculous to claim that he didn't get major focus as a character. (I'm personally not one of those, because Sanji proving his strength to his family or the reader simply wasn't the point of the arc, just like it wasn't for Usopp back in Enies Lobby). Similarly (though on a more small scale level) Chopper and yes, even Nami, did get pretty good character moments during the raid. I'd argue they got better focus than, say, Franky, even though he got a real fight and they didn't. Well, Nami kinda did sorta? Honestly, Nami vs. Ulti would have been fine if Oda didn't have Big Mom intervene in the fight - really bad decision by Oda there, the setup for their fight was so well-done, too!
All that said, this arc is so important and big that it should have been one of those arcs where each Strawhat got a chance to shine and Usopp simply hasn't, more so than any of the others, and that is extra disappointing because he also sat out the big arc before this one. Part of the problem is that aside from the Monster trio, non of the Strawhats got much to do during the first two acts, which was firmly focused on the Wano characters. Things have been better during Onigashima for a lot of the Strawhats (Robin being probably the biggest standout), but Usopp has been the biggest victim of the arcs being so bloated.
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I don't think its fair to say that Usopp is just a victim of "alternating arc focus", considering that after Dressrosa there was Zou, where he did next to nothing, Whole Cake where he wasn't featured, and now Wano…where he's done next to nothing. Heck, Usopp doesn't have much to show for himself in Punk Hazard either where his contribution in capturing Caesar was handed to him almost out of pity, adn in Dressrosa Sugar needed to be wheeled out again to make fodder-nutcrackers just for Usopp to have a second shot at beating her properly.
In an older, Usopp-lite arc like Skypea Usopp may not get the same amount of big showoff moments like Zoro, and he spends a few volumes KO'd, but he also gets a lot of fun gags during the initial upper yard expedition and fight with Satori, and when he and Sanji boards the Maxim. While Usopp is conscious he's there, on panel, he has gags and lines and reactions and stuff. Whereas by the time of Wano, Usopps state is so dire that something like him putting rando guards to sleep is not just a "showcase" moment, it is an "Oh yeah, Usopp exists!" moment.
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@Daz:
I don't think its fair to say that Usopp is just a victim of "alternating arc focus", considering that after Dressrosa there was Zou, where he did next to nothing, Whole Cake where he wasn't featured, and now Wano…where he's done next to nothing. Heck, Usopp doesn't have much to show for himself in Punk Hazard either where his contribution in capturing Caesar was handed to him almost out of pity, adn in Dressrosa Sugar needed to be wheeled out again to make fodder-nutcrackers just for Usopp to have a second shot at beating her properly.
In an older, Usopp-lite arc like Skypea Usopp may not get the same amount of big showoff moments like Zoro, and he spends a few volumes KO'd, but he also gets a lot of fun gags during the initial upper yard expedition and fight with Satori, and when he and Sanji boards the Maxim. While Usopp is conscious he's there, on panel, he has gags and lines and reactions and stuff. Whereas by the time of Wano, Usopps state is so dire that something like him putting rando guards to sleep is not just a "showcase" moment, it is an "Oh yeah, Usopp exists!" moment.
I didn't say that he was just a victim of alternating arc focus, but that is part of it. Dressrosa and WCI are basically the series biggest and most extreme examples of alternating arc focus, with each half of the crew getting focus in one arc and being absent from the other one. As I said, it has always been the case that some crewmembers got more focus than others in each arc, and that was usually pretty well-balanced, I would say. The problem with DR and WCI in particular is that ever since Dressrosa, Oda has been trying to cram as many characters and plot points into single arcs, so each arc became more complex, longer and more bloated. This has negatively affected the Strawhats' screentime in two major ways:
First, due to the larger cast, instead of giving some of the Strawhats less to do than others, Oda instead chose to remove them from the arc entirely. So for example, while Usopp had a reduced role in Skypiea, he was still very much present and got some stuff to do, which was obviously not the case in WCI. To make matters worse, due to the still very large number of characters in each arc, even the Strawhats who were present in the arc got overall less focus than in previous arcs.
Second, due to the increased length of newer arcs, if a Strawhat got less focus than others in a given arc, that means he wouldn't get focus for several years. Or more drastically and due to the crew being split up like that, he wouldn't even appear at all for several years!
Now, hopefully it is coming across that I'm not at all a fan of this development - in fact I think it's been a huge problem and will hopefully never happen again after this saga. What I am arguing is that so far, none of this has anything to do with Usopp in particular, which is what people were saying. Dressrosa and Whole Cake Island basically cancel each other out in terms of screen time. What people seem to be forgetting is that Whole Cake Island was basically making up for Nami, Sanji, Chopper and Brook completely missing out on Dressrosa. They got the better deal, I'd say, because their screen time was more recent and they also got to take part in the overall better and less bloated arc. But ultimately, it evens out.
Now regarding Zou and Wano, first of all, I feel like it's a little unfair to complain about Usopp not being given anything to do in Zou, because nobody did anything noteworthy in that arc in general, including Luffy? It was a complete lore dump arc meant to setup the next two big arcs.
Wano, otoh, I fully agree with your complaints. As I said, this should have been one of these arcs where everybody got something cool to do, and Usopps lack of focus and screentime just really stands out, especially as one of the main five crew members. It's very unfortunate, but I don't see it as a pattern of Oda not giving a crap about Usopp anymore. I do think and hope that we will get plenty of Usopp focus in the next arc, as I can't believe Oda wouldn't be aware that Usopp has done nothing of worth for a long, long time.
I think a major misstepp of Wano was to give most of the Strawhats so little to do during the first two acts. When we usually arrive at a new island, the crew usually goes exploring, splits up into two or three groups who all have their little mini adventures before the different plotlines get tied together. This was even the case in DR and WCI, but not in Wano due to the fact that we basically already new what was going on and half of the crew was already there. And I think that's a shame because that's usually also a very good way of giving all crewmembers some screen time and creating fun and memorable interactions between the characters.
So yeah, basically what I'm trying to say is: Usopp in particular got shafted in Wano overall, which is really sad and annoying, but it doesn't mean there is any actual pattern of Oda not caring about Usopp anymore…
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During Dressrosa I was like Usopp must be Oda's favorite right now! Then I was like no Sanji is Oda's favorite!
It really is unfortunate how much of a back seat so much of the crew had taken during the first couple acts of Wano. Please Oda just a couple more intimate adventures before the great war where every character and their mother decides to join in.
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My conclusions regarding each of the Straw Hats in the Wano Arc summed up:
Sanji(breaking suit), Chopper(helping as a doctor), Franky(running mom), Brook(he's there) : One of their best arcs
Nami(wasted fight),Jinbe(barely do stuff),Robin(not that sucessful as spy and not lot of personal stake in fight): Not one of their best arcs
Luffy, Zoro, Usopp: Uncertain
Did Jinbe and Robin stall Big Mom with the shoulder throw/roll out of the room deal? Also, they both took out a Tobi Roppo. But I am a Robin stan, so maybe I am biased.
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Robin getting the intel on Orochi and Kaido's forces + comforting Toko stand out more than her fight and bouncing BM off the premises.
I thought the point would be clear by now. They need the numbers. It has to be like WB's crew and friends. Scabbards, Minks, Fleet, etc. These side characters will be treated as members in their arc, so when they pop up in the future to help, it's not just random fighters with abilities and designs to look at.
Law explained it in PH arc. They won't be successful unless they have the numbers. Corrida Colosseum, Gang's betrayal, Tama's ability have been cool vessels for this.
My fav character went missing for a whole arc and that unexpectedly became a top 5 arc for me.
After Alabasta, is there 2 consecutive arcs where every SH get their own personal subplot? What was Chopper's deal in Ennies Lobby that was just for him? I used to question why that one r/ user makes those threads to debunk "Straw Hats don't interact like they used". I thought it was pointless at first, but came to see the point.
If its just interactions and their role getting shine, then I don't see where any of the Straw Hats didn't get anything at all in Wano because they did.
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I'm kinda addicted to measure arcs by Volumes, cause its a pretty accurate way of guessing more or less where it'll end.
I always knew Wano was going to be over 10 volumes, but that it would go as far as 14/15, it is a bit surprising tbh.
Vol 102 is being printed and we'll have it in roughly over a month from now, whether vol 103 will have 10 or 11 chapters is anyone's guess, but we're 4/5 chapters from having bout enough to complete said volume, and I feel like A LOT is going to happen in those 4/5 chapters, I'm confident they'll be some of the juiciest parts of the climax of Wano, and Luffy has claimed he's in his final G4 of the arc.
After that, along with the epilogue, I'd say Wano is definitely ending in Vol 104.
I also feel like these next months are going to fire up discussion in the Nakama Thread.
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On one side, I hope we reach the end in 4 (or 5) chapters, closing with Volume 103. 4/5 chapters could contain a short Kaido flashback (maybe spread over the fight instead of contained in a single chapter), CP-0's intervention, Drake's action, and Yamato/Momo plot conclusion. I don't think Luffy/Kaido needs more than several chapters mostly about it and one chapter entirely dedicated to it. However, it may feel very rushed.
However, I fear this battle will have complications (CP-0, maybe Luffy not beating Kaido before Gear 4th ends), and it extends for the entirety of volume 104.
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On one side, I hope we reach the end in 4 (or 5) chapters, closing with Volume 103. 4/5 chapters could contain a short Kaido flashback (maybe spread over the fight instead of contained in a single chapter), CP-0's intervention, Drake's action, and Yamato/Momo plot conclusion. I don't think Luffy/Kaido needs more than several chapters mostly about it and one chapter entirely dedicated to it. However, it may feel very rushed.
However, I fear this battle will have complications (CP-0, maybe Luffy not beating Kaido before Gear 4th ends), and it extends for the entirety of volume 104.
Yeah, Oda still has yet to conclude several plots on Onigashima.
Denjiro, the Kanjuro ghost, Raizo's preparations, Drake vs. CP0, Apoo and Inbi, Zoro's situation, etc. I do not think this will all be tied up by then, but I can see a big reveal happening in 1045 to make up for it.
Volume 104 can easily have the conclusion of the fight and the first part of the epilogue. Second part can easily spill into 105 with no problem and already feature elements of the next arc in the cover.
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I'm kinda addicted to measure arcs by Volumes, cause its a pretty accurate way of guessing more or less where it'll end.
I always knew Wano was going to be over 10 volumes, but that it would go as far as 14/15, it is a bit surprising tbh.
Vol 102 is being printed and we'll have it in roughly over a month from now, whether vol 103 will have 10 or 11 chapters is anyone's guess, but we're 4/5 chapters from having bout enough to complete said volume, and I feel like A LOT is going to happen in those 4/5 chapters, I'm confident they'll be some of the juiciest parts of the climax of Wano, and Luffy has claimed he's in his final G4 of the arc.
After that, along with the epilogue, I'd say Wano is definitely ending in Vol 104.
I also feel like these next months are going to fire up discussion in the Nakama Thread.
I feel the same way, Oda can definitely do it in this volume, especially if it ends up being an 11 or 12 chapter one. Everything points to Kaido's end being close.
Finishing the whole arc in volume 104 could be a fun prospect. There's a lot of cooldown and lore to dig into for this, especially with the series' endgame coming up after it and the Reverie to circle back to. That's gonna be a packed ten chapters if he really goes for it. Volume 90 will look like nothing by comparison.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yeah, Oda still has yet to conclude several plots on Onigashima.
Denjiro, the Kanjuro ghost, Raizo's preparations, Drake vs. CP0, Apoo and Inbi, Zoro's situation, etc. I do not think this will all be tied up by then, but I can see a big reveal happening in 1045 to make up for it.
Volume 104 can easily have the conclusion of the fight and the first part of the epilogue. Second part can easily spill into 105 with no problem and already feature elements of the next arc in the cover.
My feeling is that none of the lingering threads need more than a couple pages to go into for now. This is a critical point for the series to keep its momentum.
I think Kanjuro's ghost is done. It whispered its master's name while it seemed to fade away to nothing. The preparations could be a convergence on Orochi to finish him off, or maybe a way to get everyone safely off the island before it falls. Drake and the lead CP0 can eliminate each other quickly, just like how Izo's fight was a one-page affair, leaving the third guy to escape and report back to the World Government the state of things, maybe lurking as a spy in the epilogue. Zoro, I'm honestly tipping is done for now and we'll learn more after the battle. Like, he'll wake up after two weeks of treatment and go "I saw something strange before I blacked out…" and go into it then. Apoo and Inbi is the only loose end that it's hard to see a solution for.
But that's just my gut feeling. I've been saying "he'll start to wrap things up quickly from here" for months now, so I wouldn't exactly put money on any of it.
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@Daz:
I don't think its fair to say that Usopp is just a victim of "alternating arc focus", considering that after Dressrosa there was Zou, where he did next to nothing, Whole Cake where he wasn't featured, and now Wano…where he's done next to nothing. Heck, Usopp doesn't have much to show for himself in Punk Hazard either where his contribution in capturing Caesar was handed to him almost out of pity, adn in Dressrosa Sugar needed to be wheeled out again to make fodder-nutcrackers just for Usopp to have a second shot at beating her properly.
In an older, Usopp-lite arc like Skypea Usopp may not get the same amount of big showoff moments like Zoro, and he spends a few volumes KO'd, but he also gets a lot of fun gags during the initial upper yard expedition and fight with Satori, and when he and Sanji boards the Maxim. While Usopp is conscious he's there, on panel, he has gags and lines and reactions and stuff. Whereas by the time of Wano, Usopps state is so dire that something like him putting rando guards to sleep is not just a "showcase" moment, it is an "Oh yeah, Usopp exists!" moment.
Let’s not forget Usopp and Nami having possibly there greatest matchups of all time with both Page One and Ulti, and getting close to nothing for a fight with Nami and Usopp being insanely useless against Page one who again was like the perfect foil for Usopp
Only way Oda could justify this is if Usopp see’s it as a reason to get stronger and maybe gets some tips from Izo or His Dad that will make him a better fighter, only way I can excuse that
I mean am I wrong or was Page One basically the Usopp of the Beast Pirates
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Only Usopp, Brook and Chopper left. Most likely no fight and just clutch moments like the Tama announcment, saving Kin/Kiku, helping Robin and the handling of the virus. Looks like Drake might take the CP0 boss out.
On the enemy side, that leaves Inbi, Apoo and the last CP0 agent. Apoo might just escape with a Number as his new crew member. Oda might have different plans where he takes some kinda L here.
! First list - 984
Scabbards
! Momo and Hiyori vs Orochi n co. - avenge their pops
Kinemon vs Kanjuro - safest bet, leader vs infiltrator
Kawamatsu, Izo, Neko, Inu vs some Numbers - Izo missed out the 1st time and Kawamatsu, Neko and Inu represent those that were messed w/ for being different. The Numbers were introduced as different too
Denjiro and Kiku vs top Mimawarigumi - I think the guy in the middle is the same 1 that was chasing down to give the letter to Oden before the Mountain God Incident. 2 youngest Scabbards in the flashback at least
Raizo and Shinobu vs Fukurokuju and Oniwabanshu - Let the Chunin Exams begin
Asura vs Jack - finish their duel and Oden's biggest troublemaker vs the Dragdown
Carrot vs Ulti
! SH
! Nami vs Bao Huang - closest female to Kaido, but this could be Black Maria as well. Nami got Doublefinger and not Robin in Alabasta, so secretary and Flying Six is tricky for me. Bao has a fan n is seen positioned to the ceiling like a ninja at times. Nami was trained as a novice for some time and the wind knot was 1 of the things she learned. Maybe Nami figures out how Bao's fan works
! Usopp vs Number - Usopp vs a Giant is my only thought here
! Robin vs Black Maria - she's in charge of pleasure quarters and Robin assimilated as a Geisha for this arc
! Chopper vs Page 1 - seems like the lil brother to most, like Chopper
! Brook vs Apoo - music, was managed by 3 long arm tribe individuals and WCI arc's MVP is rewarded with a Supernova
! Franky and Killer vs Queen - mechanics/tech/engineers, Queen is a perv and Killer owes him for the waterboarding.
! Sasaki vs Jinbe - feel guilty, but yeah Fishmen
! Drake vs Sanji - I think Drake plays this all the way to keep up appearances
! Who's Who vs Zoro - seems to lead in the search for Yamato and Zoro might get in his way as he goes for Kaido's son who is with Luffy at the moment
! Sanji and Zoro vs King - after being tired out from Tobi Roppo, yeah this might never happen
! Luffy, Yamato and Kid vs Kaido - kinda positive about this 1, but I could be totally wrong. This feels like the safest bet
! 2nd list - ch 1000
Scabbards
! I'm starting to feel like most of the top Wano guys will end up turning on the Beast Pirates. Specifically, Orochi, his Mimawarigumi and Oniwabanshu. So, i'm not believing in a lot of th matchups concerning the Scabbards. plus, the Scabbards look like they can barely move anymore. Looks like some of that 10K of Orochi's men might turn on the Beast Pirate's 20K.
! Orochi's 10K + Kin/Luffy's 5400 + possibly 5640 Grand Fleet = 21040. Beast Pirates come get this L. Hold up, BM Pirates!!!!!! Do they make it there in the last minute? Maybe they do and the Grand Fleet appears after to stomp on their plans
! SH
! Luffy, Killer, Kid, Zoro, Law vs BM and Kaido - I think this is mostly final. Not ruling out anyone joining in or BM being distracted at any point tho- Queen vs Sanji - After the Judge thing, i'm confident in this
- King vs Marco - I still feel like there's a chance that Zoro might take over with Marco dealing w/ something else but for now i'll stick to this
- Jack vs Chopper - As i've spammed before, i'm not counting Jack out until i've seen his hybrid form. I'm not sold on him being done and dealt with. He's the young guy that I can't remember showing up in the flashback for the Beast Pirates and Chopper is the youngest Straw Hat. Also, Chopper lead the saving of the Minks after Jack's attack.
- Brook vs Apoo - Part of me feel like Apoo and Hawkins will switch sides, but I think they are defeated first b4 that takes place
- Drake vs Hawkins - Both have aided in each other's defeat at 1 point. Time to go at it
- Black Maria vs Robin - Not buying Sanji vs Maria. Robin spent time as a geisha (might be the wrong term). Robin has spider theme attacks. I always thought Usopp would face the Jorogumo inspired Beast Pirate, but it looks like Oda has him in another dope team up match
- Sasaki vs Franky - I've anticipated this as a possibility for a while. This is the one that i'm most confident in and even this can change
- Perospero vs Wanda and Carrot - Carrot gets the final attack. Didn't think Oda would go this route at first, but with Wanda, it makes sense
- Jinbe vs Who's Who - Seems like there might be some history between the 2 or possibly not exactly linked to Jinbe
- Ulti and Page 1 vs Usopp and Nami - It's interestingly similar to Chopper and Usopp's team up in Alabasta. Outsmarting this duo will be difficult. Nami n Usopp have paired up multiple times since the t/s and maybe this was why
! No idea - I'm keeping an eye on the remaining Numbers (1,2,3,6 and 9) and Bao Huang.
Best Wano characters
10 Fuga
9 Killer
8 Orochi
7 Kaido
6 Marco
5 Raizo
4 BM
3 Sanji
2 Zoro
1 Queen! 1st list
Spoiler:
10 Oden
9 Sanji
8 BM
7 Tama
6 Denjiro
5 Robin
4 Chopper
3 Zoro
2 Queen
1 Orochi
! 2nd list - April 6th 2021
10 Perospero
9 Denjiro
8 Tama
7 BM
6 Sanji
5 Robin
4 Chopper
3 Zoro
2 Queen
1 Orochi
! 3rd list - Aug 31st 2021
10 BM
9 Zeus-tact
8 Kaido
7 Orochi
6 Tama
5 Robin
4 Sanji
3 Chopper
2 Zoro
1 Queen -
From all the places people oftenly expect Shanks to show up, this one actually makes sense.
Everyone figured it was just a matter of time that the Worst Gens would wage war directly against Kaido after the events of PH, and surely Shanks heard the news about Luffy leaving Totto Land in that direction, I mean, Teach knew it.
So it is actually weird that he's not showing up to aid Luffy, he knows what kind of enemy Kaido is, I suppose he'll have a credible excuse for being a no show.
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I do think Usopp, Franky and Brook have been the most snubbed this arc. Say what you will about the direction of Nami vs. Ulti, at least Nami got a fight and a new power-up. Plus prior to the raid she was actually doing useful stuff on-screen (which Usopp wasn't).
I'm not going to count Luffy because he's always a focus but for the rest of the crew:
Great showing: Zoro, Sanji, Robin
Decent showing: Nami, Chopper, Jinbei
Bad showing: Usopp, Franky, Brook
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You kidding? I think Franky's come out of this arc absolutely shining. His search for the blueprints before the raid was a comedic highlight, he got to make a great entrance on his bike, showing up Big Mom of all characters, revived the fan favourite General Franky, and got a hilarious fight with Sasaki.
Brook could definitely have used a little more, but Whole Cake Island showed how well he works as a backup to the rest of the crew, coming in clutch to do things like fell a Number and carry an injured Robin at critical moments.
I do think Nami was robbed of what could have been a much better moment with Ulti, but the back and forth it took to claim Zeus kinda makes up for it. Not fully, but a little.
Usopp has been 100% screwed over though. He hasn't done nothing, but I'd struggle to pinpoint anything big enough to be called his moment for the arc. Letting Pageone go down to Big Mom without Usopp even suggesting he could have found a way to do it himself eventually was a mistake. Hopefully we get our Elbaf arc next so the poor guy can get the focus he deserves.
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If I had to rank them for the arc in whole, it would be similar to what Jex wrote, but switch Chopper with Robin. I'm satisfied with all of their portrayals in this arc for the most part, of course some minor issues, but there will always be some that were done better than others.
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The only recent thing which stuck in my memory was Usopps moment to Izo and Kinemon, but over the whole Wano arc, he sure does feel under used. I hope this still can change, like having a great moment to motivate Luffy to get back up, or taking over guts role, to motivate the Wano folks to still believe Luffy will defeat Kaido, if such a moment should arise.
Robin, loved her fight with Black Maria, she showed some great development in her fighting style, like using Fishmen karate and that core finding thing, whatever it may be. (I'm not sure if its the same thing Sabo did when destroying the Colosseum.)
Chopper, had his moment finding the cure to the virus and dealt some blows to Queen, even though they likely didn't amount to much. Still his standing up to a Commander was great. I really loved the moment where Chopper said that viruses are bad and shouldn't be used to hurt people. This was a great timing and maybe the whole plot of the viruses was somehow tight to the whole Covid situation. I'm sure Oda was somehow influenced by the pandemic in this regard.
Franky's fight vs Sasaki, was our first fight which introduced us to those wonky dinosaur powers and for that I love him. Also the scene where he drove over Big Mom was great, especially the reference to the song about the flower. (Was that only anime only?) And in recent chapters he was the savior Zoro needed, otherwise he likely would be laying somewhere on Wano mainland.
Brook, had a great support in the fight of Robin vs Black Maria, keeping the goons away so Robin could deal with her opponent. Also he was able to finish of a number by himself, and if they are somewhat on the level of oars thats a huge indicator of his growth. Besides the fighting, he assisted Robin in looking for information on Poneglyphs, and general intelligence gathering.
Zoro and Sanji, had great fights. Both were able to finish of the top Commanders, which was awesome. Sanjis power up through his genes was a nice twist. Zoro got a bit more flashed out as a character, thanks to that mini flashback. I still hope we will see him at Ryumas grave in the post fighting chapters, maybe even with the fox besides him. (This could hammer home their possible family ties without spelling it out for everyone.)Jinbei, had his moment against Who's Who. The bit about racism being out of style in this age/time was great, also speaks to the development of the societal aspects of the greater One Piece world. (Maybe incoming Marijoa's arc with more Fishman Tiger?) Some hints to the greater mystery of the mysterious figure Nikka and Luffys Devil fruit, maybe being more important than we thought it was for the story.
Namis helped spying in the flower capital, and had that missed opportunity like Usopp to show more growth in their fighting and teamwork capabilities. I'm sure both of them would have been able to defeat the sibling duo. Nami could have used her mirror powers and maybe pitch them against each other, and both of them might have taken each other out. Imagine something like a misty/foggy room, Usopp in the middle of it, as the already bloodied and beaten up bait. They somehow sense him through Haki but still end up running into each other. Than Usopp uses is snipping skills close range to deal them some damage with acid or whatever it may be then Nami summons a thundercloud and finishes them off.
So in all I'm most disappointed in Namis fight, besides that team up with Shinobu in the flower capital had some decent gags and was enjoyable. Also I'm fine with the power up she got through Zeus, but I'm still not sure how it will turn out, as Big Mom's story isn't over. (possible more in Elbaf like many of us think and hope)
Usopp is the only character which to this date was and is massively under utilized in the Wano arc as a whole.
If I would have to rank all of the Straw Hats, excluding Luffy.
Sanji=>Zoro>Jinbei=>Franky=>Robin>Brook>>Chopper>>>Nami>>>>Usopp
I think something like that might be reasonable.
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Well, Usopp was generally unused in most arcs. In Dressrosa, his biggest contribution was scaring the shit out of Sugar, thus releasing her DF powers. So maybe Oda prepares something like that for Wano also.
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Now that Wano is nearing his end, I can say that my disappointment regarding Usopp and Nami treatment is immeasurable now that it looks like they're not getting anything else.
In a way I'm even more let down regarding Nami situation even though she technically got more moments because I reallythought Nami vs Ulti looked extremely promising, whith Oda progressively building the animosity and antagonism between the two…. for it to fell flat in the end.
When Nami "finished" Ulti with Zeus, I felt nothing despite initially looking forward to the navigator geting her payback. With Big Mom doing Nami's homeworks for her by heavily weakening her opponent and with Zeus going on autopilot, it feels like she ended up having barely any involvement and was just a glorified spectator.
One common argument is the two cowards were too weak and it wouldn't make sense for them to take on emperor officers which is understandable….but was it then necessary to write and draw cliffhangers like chapter 1012 ending? Dunno, I'm reading a shonen and in retrospective that scene felt like peak false advertising. It's not like Oda couldn't have show Nami standing up for Tama another way.
Even with several months to think about it, the sour taste didn't go away and I still see it as a gigantic waste of time. Sure it wasn't a literal waste, plenty of plot revelant things happened like Zeus coming back to Nami, Tama converting the gifters to their side, not denying that.
That feeling is amplified by the fact Nami hasn't had an actual on-screen fight for like a decade by now. Her main role may not be that of a fighter, but when the author keeps giving so many weapon upgrade and even an emperor soul, I expect some pay-off outside fodders cleaning.
I do not dislike everything, for example I liked how she keeps standing up out of devotion for Luffy even when completely outmached (Although I do wish Oda didn't off-screen the whole first round) and some gags like the cotton nickname she gave to Zeus... but this doesn't shake away the negative feelings.For Usopp, well. There's no much more to add as he was really forgettable. As Nami I was disappointed by how Oda chose to handle his fight. I liked some of his gags like Nami impersonation and the speech he did when trying to save Kinemon and Kiku, but beside that... He already was absent in WCI, when was the last time Usopp truly had a shining moment? COO awakening in Dressrosa? aka 300 chapters, 7-8 years ago? Man that's extremely long, almost 3/10 of a very long series. Elbaf better be worth it.
I get not all straw hats can shine every arc, but a character getting the short end of the stick in a 50 chapters long arc is not nearly the same as them getting it in an arc three times as long.
For other straw hats, it goes from okay to great. Brook didn't do much either but I feel the works great as backup, which he did in assisting Robin who was real good.
Overall I think Wano was positive for the crew, which is why I'm even more disappointed regarding Nasopp. -
I miss the pre raid days of Wano. I find it weird to think we've had 70 chapters of raid at the moment.
Luffy laughing and being care free in this fight against Wano feels so tonally different to the miserable laughter the people of Ebisu town had. The build up to Yasuie's death kinda feels a bit redundant to everything now especially since we dealt with Oden's sacrifice/death in the flashback. I know he gave them a chance to change the meeting point (which Kinemon fortunately messed up) but at the time it seemed to be the emotional zenith for Wano.
I do hope we get some chopper prowess to perhaps cure those who ate defective smiles - Chopper could think he failed as they are all laughing still only to realise it is voluntary laughing from them.
as it goes on I'm more doubtful of a 5 act structure. I still think we should probably get an Act 4 at least as the big celebration. I would also say it will be a wasted opportunity if the end of arc feast is not boiling Oden where they all sing and dance to the song.
Moria also is too late now really to join in the arc, unless Kaido gets arrested and put in a jail where no light gets to him so nobody realises that his shadow is missing and that Moria working for BB or a BB crew member with his fruit has aquired Kaido's shadow.
As for SH showings in the raid in no partiuclar order:
- Obviously Luffy, Zoro and Sanji had great stuff,
- Jimbei getting involved sharing screentime with Robin and then fighting Who's Who was solid.
- Chopper getting to be the main doctor instead of Law again is decent, along with his stand against Queen - even if him curing two viruses from the same villain in an arc was a bit of a rehash.
- Robin's feats here do make one wonder why she didn't step up more in Dressrosa (especially to show off to Sabo and Koala how far she'd come), but another proper fight from her way way overdue.
- Brook had some decent interactions with Robin - he did have a solid relationship with Pedro in WCI though so I personally would've liked a team up of him and Carrot vs Perospero
- Franky I think I enjoyed the fight a bit but doesn't have much lasting memorability in his choreography (only really remember the triceracopter from Sasaki)
- Nami had so much uneccessary time spent to whether Zeus is hers or not, her speech about Luffy against Ulti was the highlight, but would be nice to see something else than just thunder attacks from her (when is the last time she used tornado moves)
- Usopp had the gags going for him when initiating the fight speaking behind Nami to call out Ulti and Page One, but besides just using some pop greens to no avail he's done v little. I miss the cunning Usopp who outplayed stronger opponents not only through lies, but assortments of dials and trickery. He had time to upgrade Nami's climatact at Dressrosa but done nothing to his own arsenal. I'd say it's pretty telling when the best moment for Usopp has been Anime padding of the Big Mom battle in the Tank with Chopper. Which admittedly was great.
Also have we had confirmation that Tama's DF only works on Smile fruit users and not full Zoan's otherwise she is the most dangerous character in the world…. didn't Luffy already eat her kibidango? or at the very least BB should kidnap her then he can control Zunesha.
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These last few weeks I'm really feeling the fatigue for this arc. Things are happening that I should care about, should love or hate but I can't feel anything but indifference.
Big Mom's defeat might be the reason. I loved her fight and her end was satisfying, so it kinda took all the hype that'd been built up and served as a premature climax. Or maybe it's because we've arrived at the finishing line. You know how when you're running and you see the goal suddenly the fatigue set in and you just want it to be over. We're so close and I don't want any more twists and turns, just get us across the line.
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It would seem evident to me that Luffy and Zoro would need several days to rest properly, and in the meantime, it'll be up to Momo to deal with the WG fleet outside of Wano.
But Momo has a giant elephant pet, and the WG has that brand new weapon, they both have nuclear deterrents at their disposal, and it would seem better to avoid conflict at al costs.
They could instead, find out a common interest thru dialogue, which is the opening of Wano's borders, for Momo to have direct dialogue with the OP rulers, itll be but the right step forward into showing the wolrd that Wano is no longer a closed nation, and in return, the WG could ask to take the Beast Pirates captive, most would end up in ID, but at least Kaido and King would be returning to Vegapunks new lab, perhaps Queen too.
Big Mom's fate could be a huge hint towards this outcome, they will not be able to take her into custody, simply cause she's out of reach, her story arc aint over yet, but I also think she will no longer be considered a Yonkou after Luffy's invasion, her defeat in the hands of Kidd and Law, and plus, whatever is currently happening in Totto Land, which seems to be yet another invasion that could destroy whats left of the Charlotte's reputation, no one will fear the BM Pirates anymore.
Shanks better die ASAP, cause him and Luffy together are just one hell of a massive power that makes Teach looks like an insect beside them.
The post-Wano world, will be really interesting.
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When we get to next week's chapter of 1,049, we will have had 140 chapters in Wano, and have been there from July 2nd, 2018, until now, which is under two months shy of four years.
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@Johnny:
When we get to next week's chapter of 1,049, we will have had 140 chapters in Wano, and have been there from July 2nd, 2018, until now, which is under two months shy of four years.
Didn't Wano start in chapter 909? Chapter 1049 would mark 141 chapters.
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For the entire New World saga to date, Oda's been making sure that one arc feeds into the next far more than they did in the first half of the series. There have always been things from the previous arc defining the next destination, from the simple start of an underwater current the crew got caught in while leaving Fishman Island depositing them close enough to Punk Hazard to hear a distress call, to the plans and politics of their growing alliance and its many enemies pulling them to Dressrosa, and then between Zou, Whole Cake Island and Wano. And it feels too late in the story to reset the momentum by going back to aimless wandering.
The question being what from Wano (or its interludes) could be used to decide the next destination? Will there be some notes left over in Kaido's things that show the location of the last Poneglyph? Will Chopper need to seek out some kind of panacea (a less temporary one than the minks') to repair the damage Luffy and Zoro have done to their bodies? Sabo rescue mission? Some big move to counter the much-hyped plans of the World Government or the Blackbeard Pirates?
Have I missed any obvious angles?
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The question being what from Wano (or its interludes) could be used to decide the next destination?
The Reverie, IMO. Reinforced by the 2019 "Sabo/Vivi/Hancock will…" JUMP Festa statement. It really feels like it's all setting up next arc And any trouble with those three would spur Luffy into action.
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A quick visit to Graveyard Isand is guaranteed in my headcannon.
Elbaf could be hiding the missing RP, or just be appointed by the log pose, and for the first time in the NW, actually use the damn thing.
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A quick visit to Graveyard Isand is guaranteed in my headcannon.
Elbaf could be hiding the missing RP, or just be appointed by the log pose, and for the first time in the NW, actually use the damn thing.
They did use the Log Pose a few times. Just not to… you know, decide on a destination. That would be nice to see, but I think (pun not intended) that ship has sailed.