Gotta keep in mind that Roger surpassed Rocks as the greatest pirate ever. He reached the pinnacle while Rocks was killed before accomplishing his objective.
On another note, does anyone have a source for Crocodile being able to transform on reflex? I could've sworn I read about it in the manga or SBS but I'm having trouble finding it.
I do wonder why Oda didn't give Zoro a rival. Some character that also wants to be the world's greatest swordsman so it would at least feel like Zoro attaining it would be in jeopardy. Could've been one of the supernova (not Killer but it's not like we know his dreams anyway). Cuz right now it just seems like Zoro is gonna take down Mihawk and get the title. Depending on when it happens his fight won't have the stakes if he fights anyone after Mihawk.
If he didn't have his female issues that rival could have been tashagi
If he didn't have his female issues that rival could have been tashagi
I mean yeah, that would involve changing the character a bit from girl obsessed with swords to girl with big ambition to be the best
Would be extra weird though cuz then it's like why even kill Kuina? Might as well have did to her what was done to Sabo.
I mean her ambition isn't to be the strongest, but her stated desire to "save" all great swords from pirate hands still could've lead her to beating Mihawk. As in i i'm beating you not because i care about your title, but because your hand won't let go of Yoru while you are still concious
A roundabout approach but I guess it works.
Still would've liked a simple rival for Zoro also competing for the title.
@Zik:
A roundabout approach but I guess it works.
Still would've liked a simple rival for Zoro also competing for the title.
It may not be a stereotypical rivalry situation, but I think it works in the long run.
Zoro carries famous swords as well, and the only realistic way Tashigi can claim them outside of underhanded tactics like trickery (which isn't her style) is to beat him in a duel and take them. If we assume Zoro supplants Mihawk as the World's Strongest Swordsman by the end of the series, then that means Tashigi has to beat the World's Strongest Swordsman in order to achieve her goals, which means that upon doing so, she becomes the World's Strongest Swordsman herself in turn, even if the title itself isn't her primary motivator.
Provided Zoro isn't killed, then in order to reclaim his title (possibly along with his swords, though I can see Zoro just opting to steal those back), he has to fight and defeat Tashigi, and now we have the two of them standing at the peak of swordsmanship, trading the title of World's Strongest back and forth while pushing each other to new heights, more or less in accordance with his initial promise with Kuina.
Without love, it cannot be seen.
It may not be a stereotypical rivalry situation, but I think it works in the long run.
Zoro carries famous swords as well, and the only realistic way Tashigi can claim them outside of underhanded tactics like trickery (which isn't her style) is to beat him in a duel and take them. If we assume Zoro supplants Mihawk as the World's Strongest Swordsman by the end of the series, then that means Tashigi has to beat the World's Strongest Swordsman in order to achieve her goals, which means that upon doing so, she becomes the World's Strongest Swordsman herself in turn, even if the title itself isn't her primary motivator.
Provided Zoro isn't killed, then in order to reclaim his title (possibly along with his swords, though I can see Zoro just opting to steal those back), he has to fight and defeat Tashigi, and now we have the two of them standing at the peak of swordsmanship, trading the title of World's Strongest back and forth while pushing each other to new heights, more or less in accordance with his initial promise with Kuina.
Sounds good but I just don't think Oda is ever going to have Tashigi be strong enough to beat Zoro. Even though them trading the title back and forth has story potential and a cool thematic ending.
The gap between Tashigi and Zoro is even bigger than the gap between Luffy and Smoker.
@Zik:
Sounds good but I just don't think Oda is ever going to have Tashigi be strong enough to beat Zoro. Even though them trading the title back and forth has story potential and a cool thematic ending.
The gap between Tashigi and Zoro is even bigger than the gap between Luffy and Smoker.
Oh definitely, Tashigi would need to drastically step up her game for it to work. I remain hopeful though.
@Zik:
I do wonder why Oda didn't give Zoro a rival. Some character that also wants to be the world's greatest swordsman so it would at least feel like Zoro attaining it would be in jeopardy. Could've been one of the supernova (not Killer but it's not like we know his dreams anyway). Cuz right now it just seems like Zoro is gonna take down Mihawk and get the title. Depending on when it happens his fight won't have the stakes if he fights anyone after Mihawk.
I suppose I should be glad One Piece doesn’t really do rivals since I was never fond of them in the first place, and even “rivalries” between characters like Zoro and Sanji are surface-level and don’t become anything like personal grudges at all, as they’re always willing to help each other out as friends deep down.
I suppose I should be glad One Piece doesn’t really do rivals since I was never fond of them in the first place, and even “rivalries” between characters like Zoro and Sanji are surface-level and don’t become anything like personal grudges at all, as they’re always willing to help each other out as friends deep down.
I wouldn't even call Sanji and Zoro rivals. The most they compete in is who has the biggest bounty and who is more willing to risk their lives for Luffy and the crew.
With Zoro (and Luffy really) there's nobody else really competing with him to be the best swordsman in the world. His last real challenge was Mr. 1 and he got beat. With Luffy its a bit different, yes Blackbeard is going to be the or one of the final antagonists going for One Piece but he's a full on enemy. The supernovas could've been rivals but in the 2 years skipped they all got washed up by some obstacle except for us not knowing what's going on with Urouge. Law doesn't even want to be PK. Kid just seems destined for failure. Everybody else has settled and/or was defeated. Maybe Oda should've held Hawkins back of go ahead with making him a warlord.
Is this the right thread if we want to talk about what we think is going to happen after Wano?
In chapter 1000, Yamato remarked that someone kept Oden's Journal safe from the fire at Oden Castle. Do we know who left it at the river, or is that still a mystery? If it is, it seems like a pretty big and potentially important one.
When exactly did Kaido start getting the Smile fruits? I get the feeling they were a relatively recent acquisition, because Poker and Babanuki didn’t seem to have the Smile fruit powers when Ace was at Wano four years ago.
When exactly did Kaido start getting the Smile fruits? I get the feeling they were a relatively recent acquisition, because Poker and Babanuki didn’t seem to have the Smile fruit powers when Ace was at Wano four years ago.
https://i.ibb.co/ZgNP5DL/835262-DD-39-F9-4-B91-AEEB-78-D8-D01-A3125.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/CtQYhGz/5-CE15417-08-FB-47-CD-B24-E-688404-F6-CE95.jpg
Well Dofla talked about the age of smiles at Sabody 2 years ago, and said that he didn't care for slavery business anymore. So I think at the least, Smiles existed 2 years ago. Plus Caesar was a govt scientist under Vegapunk 4 years ago, so it is unlikely he was making SAD back then. He returned to Punk Hazard 3 years ago, so that is the most likely starting point of Smiles
Why didn't Oden call Whitebeard via dendenmushi…" hey big bro I am in troubles come help me "?
He and Toki would still be alive,Wano would be free,Kaido would be dead
Why didn't Oden call Whitebeard via dendenmushi…" hey big bro I am in troubles come help me "?
He and Toki would still be alive,Wano would be free,Kaido would be dead
Probably the same reason for the next 20 years Whitebeard never bothered to go to Wano again even after hearing about Kaido making it his headquarters.
I call in to question WB and his love for his "family". Seems unable to save anybody and waits too long to even try.
If he felt some way about Ace going after BB, he should've sent Marco or Jozu to shadow him. If he cared about Oden, he'd have come back to visit but I get the feeling he stopped caring when Oden became a Roger pirate and then Roger became pirate king cuz Roger straight up told him anything and he didn't even bother to check on him despite the Wano members in his crew.
I thought there were no dendenmushis in Wano twenty years ago? Kinemon certainly seemed very surprised when he first saw one in Punk Hazard.
@Zik:
Probably the same reason for the next 20 years Whitebeard never bothered to go to Wano again even after hearing about Kaido making it his headquarters.
I call in to question WB and his love for his "family". Seems unable to save anybody and waits too long to even try.
If he felt some way about Ace going after BB, he should've sent Marco or Jozu to shadow him. If he cared about Oden, he'd have come back to visit but I get the feeling he stopped caring when Oden became a Roger pirate and then Roger became pirate king cuz Roger straight up told him anything and he didn't even bother to check on him despite the Wano members in his crew.
I suppose Whitebeard figured Oden must have gone his own way after the Roger Pirates disbanded and didn’t find out about Oden until it was far too late for him to do anything about it or saving Wano in general despite it being his little brother’s home. He must have felt that his former Rocks crew mate Kaido was far too much trouble to deal with, and that Whitebeard felt like he could handle the Marines when it came to saving Ace.
I suppose Whitebeard figured Oden must have gone his own way after the Roger Pirates disbanded and didn’t find out about Oden until it was far too late for him to do anything about it or saving Wano in general despite in being his little brother’s home. He must have felt that his former Rocks crew mate Kaido was far too much trouble to deal with, and that Whitebeard felt like he could handle the Marines when it came to saving Ace.
Cowardice!
I mean Toki, Momo, Hiyori were all on his crew. Izo still was. I'm more than sure his crew and all his allied forces would do a better job than Luffy and Momo are currently doing. Especially at a time where he's more in hid prime than when he went to save Ace.
16 characters of Ace was speshul
@Zik:
Cowardice!
I mean Toki, Momo, Hiyori were all on his crew. Izo still was. I'm more than sure his crew and all his allied forces would do a better job than Luffy and Momo are currently doing. Especially at a time where he's more in hid prime than when he went to save Ace.
He must have thought Hiyori was dead along with Toki, and that Momo hadn’t arrived in the future yet. Izo was already with him too, so as much as it comes off as selfish that Whitebeard didn’t save Wano for Oden’s sake, it could also come off as selfish to put himself and his family at risk for revenge over someone close to him who’s already dead, in addition to the gigantic task of saving an entire country. I guess that was just the pirate way for him.
This was touched on in Chapter 999. There's a difference between going to war to save a comrade and going to avenge them - the latter results in more WB Pirates meeting their doom. Even in Marineford when Ace died, WB had the rest of his crew retreat still for their safety.
That whole no what if it was dangerous cop out really gutted WB for me. Moved him from man with literally the biggest balls on the ocean and a simple but badass creed to guy who talks a big game.
That whole no what if it was dangerous cop out really gutted WB for me. Moved him from man with literally the biggest balls on the ocean and a simple but badass creed to guy who talks a big game.
I support this message. I stand by the idea that only Roger should have been involved in the Oden flashback.
That whole no what if it was dangerous cop out really gutted WB for me. Moved him from man with literally the biggest balls on the ocean and a simple but badass creed to guy who talks a big game.
Whitebeard couldn't care less about that in favor of focusing on his family and village, so I'm not sure what else to tell ya.
He must have thought Hiyori was dead along with Toki, and that Momo hadn’t arrived in the future yet. Izo was already with him too, so as much as it comes off as selfish that Whitebeard didn’t save Wano for Oden’s sake, it could also come off as selfish to put himself and his family at risk for revenge over someone close to him who’s already dead, in addition to the gigantic task of saving an entire country. I guess that was just the pirate way for him.
Nothing about it is selfish. Oden was a Whitebeard pirate. A Whitebeard division commander. He was murdered along with his wife who was a friend. I'm pretty sure WB knew nothing about Toki sending anyone to the future.
It really just seems like he let Oden go with Roger and he stopped caring.
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@Kaido:
This was touched on in Chapter 999. There's a difference between going to war to save a comrade and going to avenge them - the latter results in more WB Pirates meeting their doom. Even in Marineford when Ace died, WB had the rest of his crew retreat still for their safety.
Actually no. Whitebeard gave the command to retreat before Ace died. It was basically go on and be a crew and leave me to die.
Ace stuck around cuz of meaningless words like an idiot then cuz of that he was forced to sacrifice himself for his brother.
Marco said they only knew about Oden's years after the fact and that by then the country was already in the hands of Kaidou.
They could go to war but they would've destroyed the country in the process, not save it.
But Marineford was a free for all, it was just a marine base.
If they didn't need to rescue Ace, Whitebeard could've easily sunken half of the island (all of it if there were no Admirals and above present).
Aye. I can only hope that Oda regrets transforming WB into excuses-beard just for an excuse to cram him into the Oden flashback
Well it being Shonen, it gave a good excuse to have Whitebeard vs. Roger even if just a glimpse. It also gave motivation for Marco and Izo.
Will the other Supernova get arcs catered to them?
Law got Dressrosa and Bege got WCI arc. Wano doesn't feel personal enough for Killer and Kid. They were infiltrated, set up, drowned and imprisoned, but it doesn't hit their background like it did for Bege and Law.
Maybe every Supernova don't get one. Bonney and Urouge might get their own tho. Bonney due to the Kuma connection and Urouge because he feels like the least utilized one. Urouge comes off too obvious.
Will the other Supernova get arcs catered to them?
Law got Dressrosa and Bege got WCI arc. Wano doesn't feel personal enough for Killer and Kid. They were infiltrated, set up, drowned and imprisoned, but it doesn't hit their background like it did for Bege and Law.
Maybe every Supernova don't get one. Bonney and Urouge might get their own tho. Bonney due to the Kuma connection and Urouge because he feels like the least utilized one. Urouge comes off too obvious.
I guess Bonney will. Urouge is a mystery, there's this theory that he's the 10th Titan, I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up true.
Will the other Supernova get arcs catered to them?
Law got Dressrosa and Bege got WCI arc. Wano doesn't feel personal enough for Killer and Kid. They were infiltrated, set up, drowned and imprisoned, but it doesn't hit their background like it did for Bege and Law.
Maybe every Supernova don't get one. Bonney and Urouge might get their own tho. Bonney due to the Kuma connection and Urouge because he feels like the least utilized one. Urouge comes off too obvious.
Bonney and Urouge are the only Supernovas Luffy has yet to personally meet, so I think it’s only a matter of time.
Apologies for the dumb question, I don't know if this has been clarified anywhere.
Pertaining to Raftel/Laugh Tale. Do we know for a certainty what the current people of the One Piece world call the final island? Do they say Laugh Tale, or do they say Raftel, a kind of degradation of the original name, kind of like how Gol D. became Gold?
If everyone has actually been saying Laugh Tale this whole time, was there just some kind of miscommunication with the official translation? Did Japanese readers read it as "Laugh Tale"? Or did Oda/Editors intentionally try to hide the actual translation for some kind of big reveal? It seems to me like a weird thing to hide, considering Laugh Tale doesn't really mean that much more to us than Raftel does… I don't know, it seems any way you slice it, something just feels off.
Thanks, if anyone can help me understand.
Apologies for the dumb question, I don't know if this has been clarified anywhere.
Pertaining to Raftel/Laugh Tale. Do we know for a certainty what the current people of the One Piece world call the final island? Do they say Laugh Tale, or do they say Raftel, a kind of degradation of the original name, kind of like how Gol D. became Gold?
If everyone has actually been saying Laugh Tale this whole time, was there just some kind of miscommunication with the official translation? Did Japanese readers read it as "Laugh Tale"? Or did Oda/Editors intentionally try to hide the actual translation for some kind of big reveal? It seems to me like a weird thing to hide, considering Laugh Tale doesn't really mean that much more to us than Raftel does… I don't know, it seems any way you slice it, something just feels off.
Thanks, if anyone can help me understand.
The original English name "Raftel" was essentially a "best guess" on the part of the translators based on how the island's name is written in Japanese (which uses the strictly phonetic katakana, rather than kanji that would have meaning built in). We only got clarification that it was intended to be "Laugh Tale" with the Stampede movie and then the manga itself some time later, more than 20 years into the series. The way it's spelled and pronounced in Japanese never changed.
There have been hints over time that "Raftel" wasn't right (notably in the lyrics to Bink's Sake), but presumably they were resistant to changing the established spelling until it became absolutely clear that they had to - the same reason Zoro is still officially "Zolo" in the English manga.
Not ideal, but it happens from time to time, particularly for older and/or long-running series that haven't always taken the foreign market into account. The infamous "Band of the Hawk" from Berserk should have more rightly been translated as the "Band of the Falcon", but the other name was too well established to change by the time that became clear. Similarly, there's a character in "A Certain Magical Index" that was known both officially and unofficially by the name "Laura Stuart" for a good 40 light novels and two seasons of anime (at the time - three now), only for it to eventually become very, VERY plot relevant that her name was actually "Lola Stuart" the entire time.
Without love, it cannot be seen.
The original English name "Raftel" was essentially a "best guess" on the part of the translators based on how the island's name is written in Japanese (which uses the strictly phonetic katakana, rather than kanji that would have meaning built in). We only got clarification that it was intended to be "Laugh Tale" with the Stampede movie and then the manga itself some time later, more than 20 years into the series. The way it's spelled and pronounced in Japanese never changed.
There have been hints over time that "Raftel" wasn't right (notably in the lyrics to Bink's Sake), but presumably they were resistant to changing the established spelling until it became absolutely clear that they had to - the same reason Zoro is still officially "Zolo" in the English manga.
Not ideal, but it happens from time to time, particularly for older and/or long-running series that haven't always taken the foreign market into account. The infamous "Band of the Hawk" from Berserk should have more rightly been translated as the "Band of the Falcon", but the other name was too well established to change by the time that became clear. Similarly, there's a character in "A Certain Magical Index" that was known both officially and unofficially by the name "Laura Stuart" for a good 40 light novels and two seasons of anime (at the time - three now), only for it to eventually become very, VERY plot relevant that her name was actually "Lola Stuart" the entire time.
Thank you very much, that clears things up for me. Kind of unfortunate, as you said, that the actual name of arguably the most important island in the series was never fully communicated between Oda/Editors and the translation teams. But I guess the word "Raftel" didn't show up that often for the majority of the series anyway.
I do have a second dumb question as well – just something I don't fully grasp. I'm attaching a scanlation note from chapter 968:
!
I don't know how to check the veracity of these translation claims. Anyone know if they are accurate? And if the true meaning of One Piece is supposedly "The Great Hidden Treasure of One Peace", is it possible Oda meant "One Peace" all along, and Piece was a mistake? I believe Oda has had some mistakes in the past when he spelled things specifically in english. It's just a bit worrisome for me that the name of the actual series might be unintentionally incorrect.
A side note – from reading 968, it also isn't super clear to me the origin of the name One Piece in reference to the treasure. Apparently the world as a whole started calling it that, but for no clear apparent reason? I don't have the actual official translation on hand, so I don't know if I'm just missing something there.
Thanks again for the help.
That one I'm afraid I can't help with, but given that the logo for the series clearly uses the "Piece" spelling, I feel safe in thinking that it's intentional - it is, after all, purported to be a "treasure" and "pieces of eight" (a.k.a. the Spanish dollar, silver coins in use by the Spanish Empire in the Americas for centuries) were very much in use during the IRL Age of Piracy and have been referenced in other pirate-related media (Pirates of the Caribbean and the "Monkey Island" franchise, to name a couple).
There may be some deliberate wordplay in effect, though, so the "Peace" spelling may still be relevant, but there's no way to be sure based on what we currently know.
This is the narrator box in the original Japanese:
I only know basic Japanese so I'm just spitballing here, bear that in mind. The Furigana (the small syllables on the side) straight up read "Wan Pisu" so it's ambiguous if it's Peace or Piece. The Hiragana read "ひとつなぎの大秘宝" (hito tsunagi no dai hihou), you can break it down into "hito" (man, human, mankind, one), "tsunagi" (link, connection), "hito tsunagi" can also be read as "one piece of treasure". "Dai" (大) means "big" but where it gets funny and the point of my post about my amateurish Japanese skills is the hihou (秘宝) part:
!
! Oda you sly dog. The MacGuffin of the entire series is just another perverted gag.
Sure would be a different manga if it was titled Sex Museum lol.
Now I really wonder what Roger and crew were laughing about.
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I've been wondering, in the One Piece universe is there air in space?
Enel is seen going on the moon just fine when he meets those robots and alien space pirates. So is staying alive cuz there's some sort of air to breathe up there or is it just cuz he's made of lightning and doesn't need to breathe anymore?
Why did Nami not get a bounty for defeating Zala, even though Zoro defeated her partner, Daz Bonez?
Why did Nami not get a bounty for defeating Zala, even though Zoro defeated her partner, Daz Bonez?
Daz a famous bounty hunter in west blue. We have nothing on the girl having a great rep. But also Zoro has a reputation as bounty hunter. So him switching to villainy probably matter more then the bunch of no names around Luffy.
Daz a famous bounty hunter in west blue. We have nothing on the girl having a great rep. But also Zoro has a reputation as bounty hunter. So him switching to villainy probably matter more then the bunch of no names around Luffy.
Interestingly to believe that Zala directly working with a reputable bounty hunter to begin with under a shady organization run by a warlord tyrant was never under consideration for a bounty for defeating her, but whatevs. lol
Someone remind me, has it ever been explained why Chopper, unlike other Zoan users, cannot transform completely into his Zoan animal? His "human form" looks closer to a hybrid.
Someone remind me, has it ever been explained why Chopper, unlike other Zoan users, cannot transform completely into his Zoan animal? His "human form" looks closer to a hybrid.
Well he was originally an animal who ate a human fruit, so there’s an aspect to him that will resemble a reindeer no matter what even if humans are different from animals.
Well he was originally an animal who ate a human fruit, so there’s an aspect to him that will resemble a reindeer no matter what even if humans are different from animals.
But Rob Lucci in his Cheetah form looks nothing like a human, etc. That was the point. The average zoan user can transform completely into their animal form to the point they are indistinguishable from a regular animal.
Ever since Sengoku was revealed to have the Hito Hito no Mi: Model Daibutsu I've always just assumed that Chopper has the Model Yeti/Bigfoot or something along those lines. It would fit with him hiding in the woods and people being scared of him
Interestingly to believe that Zala directly working with a reputable bounty hunter to begin with under a shady organization run by a warlord tyrant was never under consideration for a bounty for defeating her, but whatevs. lol
The organization was secret until Alababasta with even someone like Robin flying under the radar of the government. So Zala actions are most likely unknown. Which made her an unknown figure defeated by an unknown figure. But Crocodile threat level is known to the government from his public pirating days and Daz bone threat level is known from his public bounty hunting days.
If your question was rhetorical and its just something that bothers and you wanted to point out thats fine. But if its a genuine question about no else getting bounties during Alabasta Daz being a known figure prior to his to his baroque days is the most relevant info in what makes him different from other Baroque workers. BUt you can also add the goverment relunctance to give bounties or that it was supposed to be swept under the rug so they didnt want to give out so many bounties.
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Someone remind me, has it ever been explained why Chopper, unlike other Zoan users, cannot transform completely into his Zoan animal? His "human form" looks closer to a hybrid.
It isnt explained.
The organization was secret until Alababasta with even someone like Robin flying under the radar of the government. So Zala actions are most likely unknown. Which made her an unknown figure defeated by an unknown figure. But Crocodile threat level is known to the government from his public pirating days and Daz bone threat level is known from his public bounty hunting days.
If your question was rhetorical and its just something that bothers and you wanted to point out thats fine. But if its a genuine question about no else getting bounties during Alabasta Daz being a known figure prior to his to his baroque days is the most relevant info in what makes him different from other Baroque workers. BUt you can also add the goverment relunctance to give bounties or that it was supposed to be swept under the rug so they didnt want to give out so many bounties.
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It isnt explained.
I reman, it doesn’t bother me, but I guess it does make me wonder when she received her bounty of 35 million then if she really is an unknown figure.
