Nazis are supposed to be fascist. Republicans are supposed to be conservative. Unfortunately right now the line between them has become so fuzzy it's hard to tell sometimes.
American Politics thread: No Nazis Allowed
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Nazis are supposed to be fascist. Republicans are supposed to be conservative. Unfortunately right now the line between them has become so fuzzy it's hard to tell sometimes.
Well in the loosest sense of the political spectrum, doesn't going full-stop conservative/right lead to fascism?
Or this a case not unlike when "liberal" not always meaning "left"?
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@Monkey:
I'm confused as to why someone would have issues with "no nazis allowed".
i dont have an issue with it. I just found it strange that this thread mentioned nazis by name in the title because nazis are statistically irrelevant and barely have any public support. You are literally more likely to be lynched if you dress up as a nazi than to are to be lynched by a nazi.
the only people who keep bringing up nazis are the far left(antifa and their sympathizers) who perpetuate nazi hysteria in order to support their radical views.
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I mean…I guess there are Democratic Nazis out there? But probably much less than Republicans.
More believable than Allen West claiming most of the party had communists in their ranks.
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How many people did antifa kill in the Charlottesville nazi riots?
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@Monkey:
i dont have an issue with it. I just found it strange that this thread mentioned nazis by name in the title because nazis are statistically irrelevant and barely have any public support. You are literally more likely to be lynched if you dress up as a nazi than to are to be lynched by a nazi.
You seem very concerned about Nazis being victimized by mob violence.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
There aren't Nazis, where are the Nazis? Bet you can't find any Nazis.
I mean, if there were any they'd probably be really in trouble the poor guys. Poor Nazis.
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Mods tend to change thread titles in a tongue-in-cheek way while some memorable/heated/important discussion is happening. The “No Nazis Allowed” was added after we had like a 5 page long discussion about nazis happening, iirc. It’ll change again the next time something happens.
Reposting this since this seems to be a question new people ask :/
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@Monkey:
You seem very concerned about Nazis being victimized by mob violence.
.i was literally just making an analogy to show the relevance and the state of nazis in public life
a vast majority of people hate nazis, so much so that if you dress up as one, you will likely face physical violence. Hence i found it strange that this thread specifically said "no nazis allowed", because that isnt the type of thing that you have to say, its just assumed most of the time.
please stop trying to associate me with nazis.
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@Monkey:
i found it strange that this thread specifically said "no nazis allowed", because that isnt the type of thing that you have to say, its just assumed most of the time.
That's because this forum has a pretty cool tradition of altering the titles of long-running threads to reference recent topics in a tongue-in-cheek way.
Search for the Naruto and Bleach threads and you'll see what I mean.So just like a kid's treehouse or secret den might say "no gurlz allowed" or something,
this is kind of the same idea. Nazis are smelly and they should stay away. -
The reason the title was changed was because Robo was fretting about nazi-punching/antifa.
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I'd change the title but I for some reason lost that power when I went down to Yellow mod.
I can only change titles now with a pain in the butt workaround which isn't worth the effort unless there's something time sensitive.
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I feel like it’s relevant now and should stay a bit more lol xD
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Also it's really kinda bizarre to just focus right in on the title and not actual issues or whatever.
Also honestly Democrats, Republicans, lol.
What passes as "Not Republican" these days includes both of those of the recent past.
Shit has drifted, acting like the neutral middle space must also drift is insanely dumb. -
@Monkey:
i was literally just making an analogy to show the relevance and the state of nazis in public life
a vast majority of people hate nazis, so much so that if you dress up as one, you will likely face physical violence. Hence i found it strange that this thread specifically said "no nazis allowed", because that isnt the type of thing that you have to say, its just assumed most of the time.
please stop trying to associate me with nazis.
Woooh, why does this always happen with new members who are right of left of centre? mumbles something about the paranoid left labelling everyone nazis and the paranoid right immediately assuming they're referring to them
Either way, you most certainly are welcome, even if you're right of centre, as long as you avoid arguing bigoted/racist/sexist stances.
Just a further warning to help you get along, it is very much a left-wing forum, so you'll be encountering pretty strong opposition if you agree with the right, just keep a level head explain your view, and sometimes if it gets too heated agreeing to disagree can be the way to go. This coming from the guy whose almost always on the right-wing side of the argument for some reason… :ninja:Other than that, play nice, avoid swearing and ad-hominem and you should be okay! Gambatte!
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I feel like it’s relevant now and should stay a bit more lol xD
Yeah. It actually, um, seems to be serving a pretty useful purpose in the current climate.
Though I imagine "No Fascists Allowed" would work just as well as a sieve/mousetrap if people are already bored of Nazis.
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Haven't seen Robo in a while. Got thread-baned?
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Haven't seen Robo in a while. Got thread-baned?
That’s enough of that. He’s around, probably busy irl.
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American Politics thread: No Integralists/Falangists/Austrofascists Allowed
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@CCC:
Yeah. It actually, um, seems to be serving a pretty useful purpose in the current climate.
Though I imagine "No Fascists Allowed" would work just as well as a sieve/mousetrap if people are already bored of Nazis.
They're rarely actually fascists or nazis though… they certainly wouldn't be in favour of the key tenet of Nazism or Fascism - namely authoritarian government control, repression of freedom of the press and expression in favour of the pro-nationalisic government narrative, government based economic spending, fear based top-down socio-militaristic control of a part of the population via the othering and marginalising of a minority (even an economically powerful one like the jewish people) of the population.
In that sense neo-nazis and hard-line pro-Trump republicans are almost completely different (probably due to ignorance), the only thing they have in common is the pro-military stance and the bigotry. Other than that, they most likely would hate being under a Nazi or Fascist regime, considering how much they love thier 'freedom'.
Perhaps 'No Bigots Allowed' would better encompass the core idea behind the title? Also it avoids the unfortunate issue of AP being conflated with the confused marxists on twitter labelling even the more moderate right wingers as Nazis… sometimes for trivial things like not being in favour of eradicating capitalism...
Just my 2-cents
EDIT: By 'They' I mean 'the guys we don't want around because they contribute nothing to the conversation other than promoting hate'. Not that Nazis and Fascists wouldn't do that anyway... but self-identified Nazis would fall under 'Bigots' anyway, wouldn't they?
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If the title was "no commies allowed" I do wonder how many left leaning people would get offended.
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Probably none, considering none of the left wingers here are defense forcing communists here the way right wingers defend Trump and his ilk.
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Perhaps 'No Bigots Allowed' would better encompass the core idea behind the title?
Yo dog, there's a time and place for the neener-neener you-can't-come-in treehouse deal (not saying that as a mod, mind you), but a broad term like "bigots" would invite even more whiners, I suspect. The nazi thing is more recent, but bigots been getting called bigots foreverrr, and the snowflakes are especially sensitive to that.
For all the fun and good times we appear to have with users of differing opinion, more conflict isn't really a net positive.
Also you're missing the overall point, I think? Nobody here (well, at least not me) is calling these users Nazis. Of course that's a ridiculous notion. Average doughy white suburban grumbly "Republican" from Ohio would probably hate living in a fascist regime, probably, as you point out!
Rather, the title was changed in response to literal nazis across America in the news (not referring to members of this forum lol), and then these users go out of the way to self-identify on some fuzzy level when they show up and the first words they type are complaining about the thread title. What a twist it would be for a self-proclaimed right-winger to come in and make their first post about gasp the nuances of an actual issue. -
If the title was "no commies allowed" I do wonder how many left leaning people would get offended.
Left leaning people nowadays actually are pretty vocal about being communist, or Anarcho-communist, I really don't think it's got quite the same punch. At least in the UK, I've got quite a few friends who'd happily describe themselves as marxist. I guess it has a bit more of a stigma in the US, but in Europe that's hardly an insult.
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Assholes all of them, they should try living in a commie country and enjoy for themselves their rationed food and "free" "healthcare".
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They're rarely actually fascists or nazis though… they certainly wouldn't be in favour of the key tenet of Nazism or Fascism - namely authoritarian government control, repression of freedom of the press and expression in favour of the pro-nationalisic government narrative, government based economic spending, fear based top-down socio-militaristic control of a part of the population via the othering and marginalising of a minority (even an economically powerful one like the jewish people) of the population.
The current populists aren't far from approving of that sort of thing at all. As long as all authoritarian/government based framing is wrapped up in their populist figure.
Most of that is spot on in the current climatePerhaps 'No Bigots Allowed' would better encompass the core idea behind the title? Also it avoids the unfortunate issue of AP being conflated with the confused marxists on twitter labelling even the more moderate right wingers as Nazis… sometimes for trivial things like not being in favour of eradicating capitalism...
You may still not believe me, but I'd be bashing in the left-wing populists heads as much as the right wing ones if they surfaced here beyond that one dude awhile ago.
It's just, unlike our friend suggested, the actual statistical rarity is them.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
If the title was "no commies allowed" I do wonder how many left leaning people would get offended.
"Commie" just immediately makes me think of idiot McCarthey type stuff.
But I'd have nothing but thumbs up for the inclusion of "Tankies".
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Left leaning people nowadays actually are pretty vocal about being communist, or Anarcho-communist, I really don't think it's got quite the same punch. At least in the UK, I've got quite a few friends who'd happily describe themselves as marxist. I guess it has a bit more of a stigma in the US, but in Europe that's hardly an insult.
It doesn't have the same punch until they start adding "Leninist" at the end of Marxist, or god forbid "Stalinist" or "Maoist".
Outright non-authoritarian communists are the left wing libertarians. For all their many flaws, they do not come inherently packaging nihilistic sociopathic jackboot fetishism.
They are mostly just naive economic idealists. -
Left leaning people nowadays actually are pretty vocal about being communist, or Anarcho-communist, I really don't think it's got quite the same punch. At least in the UK, I've got quite a few friends who'd happily describe themselves as marxist. I guess it has a bit more of a stigma in the US, but in Europe that's hardly an insult.
Hasn't the UK always had vocal Marxist and Trotskyist sects of people?
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@CCC:
Also you're missing the overall point, I think? Nobody here (well, at least not me) is calling these users Nazis. Of course that's a ridiculous notion. Average doughy white suburban Republican from Ohio would totally hate living in a fascist regime, probably, as you point out!
Rather, they go out of the way to self-identify on some fuzzy level when they show up and the first words they type are complaining about the thread title. What a twist it would be for a self-proclaimed right-winger to come in and make their first post about gasp the nuances of an actual issue.I mean, to me it's more a question of 'Nazi' having become such a throwaway term in left-wing circles (you may not use it, but in the wider internet-sphere it's pretty common), that even the most moderate republicans may have been called 'Nazi' by someone in the past. First year of Uni I got called a Nazi for being not entirely condemning of Margaret Thatcher… So in my mind, it's more open to misenterpretation, as the word has shifted from 'Neo-Nazi' and 'Pro-Hitler's regime' to 'right-winger who quite likes Jordan Peterson'.
Bigot on the other hand has remained pretty stable in its meaning. It just means someone who holds prejudice against a group for no good reason, discounting their value as individuals a-priori. In my mind, it's less likely that people will object to a forum being 'against bigots' than 'against Nazis', because the latter term has been misappropriated so much in the recent past that its lost its (pretty powerful) original meaning.
Then again, that's my perspective sitting at home in the UK while going to very left-wing University, it might be that in the US the above isn't quite as accurate.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Monkey:
You may still not believe me, but I'd be bashing in the left-wing populists heads as much as the right wing ones if they surfaced here beyond that one dude awhile ago.
It's just, unlike our friend suggested, the actual statistical rarity is them.I believe you, I'm just saying that the newcomers don't have a way of knowing that we're not left-wing populist heads… and my guess is that when they see 'Nazi' in the title, they just assume that's what we all are, hence the immediate asking 'why is Nazi in the title' and skepticism when we respond 'no we mean no literal nazis'.
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Hasn't the UK always had vocal Marxist and Trotskyist sects of people?
Yeah. The UK for all it's peculiar mirror image politics to the US differs strongly there, they are much more in line with Europe in that regard.
No surprise given their class issues are very old world style, possibly the most alien thing about them to an American. -
@Monkey:
Yeah. The UK for all it's peculiar mirror image politics to the US differs strongly there, they are much more in line with Europe in that regard.
No surprise given their class issues are very old world style, possibly the most alien thing about them to an American.I agree, but having moved from Italy to the UK, I happen to think the UK's class system is actually one of the most extreme class systems in Europe. It's so entrenched in every social interaction, especially with how the accent you have (moreso that your clothes and in some circles moreso than skin-colour) influences the way people treat you and think of you, it's really hard to ignore! Some areas actually have two or more regional accents, for upper class, middle class, and lower class people. Probably my least favourite thing about the UK, it's amazing how such a 'progressive' country can have such a strongly ingrained bigotry relating to speech and upbringing.
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If the title was "no commies allowed" I do wonder how many left leaning people would get offended.
Communism in America has functionally been dead since the Soviet Union stopped funneling cash to CPUSA in the late 80s due to them being huge Stalinists. It now only exists in the rooms of white suburban college kids who wear Che shirts and think that Zach de la Rocha is the most profound songwriter of all time.
Compare to fascism, which has been on the rise and a public force for quite a while now.
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I happen to think the UK's class system is actually one of the most extreme class systems in Europe.
I can believe that actually, given the history.
They've had the largest scale longest lasting ancien' regime and all attached nobility that comes therein. -
CNN: Obama called on Alabama voters to reject Roy Moore.
Am I the only one afraid this will backfire due to the OBAMA BAD!!! knee jerk?
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CNN: Obama called on Alabama voters to reject Roy Moore.
Am I the only one afraid this will backfire due to the OBAMA BAD!!! knee jerk?
Yeah, I really don't think Alabamians are big Obama fans. Are they? If they are that'd be a bit weird, they're a hard red state aren't they. A good chunk probably agree with Trump that he's born in Kenya. Just a hunch, but I reckon Ex-Prez ain't gonna change things -_-
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It's to encourage black turnout.
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It's to encourage black turnout.
Oh fair, it's 25% Afro-American in Alabama (compared to 13% US wide), that does kinda change things.
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@Monkey:
anyways, is this a democrat-only thread?
Folks like Robby have already discussed in general how this thread works regarding Conservative/Republican opinions in general: That being that as long as you aren't an asshole, use hate speech, slurs, or calls for violence while trying to make your points, you're free to share your opinion, Democrat or Republican alike.
One thing I want to add to Robby's statement is this however:
As he said, the majority of folks here ARE either some level of Liberal or are more moderate conservatives who don't fully agree with Trump or the official party's platform or actions right now. I know some people here who identify as conservative who are more liberal on social issues too.
What this means is, someone who is more conservative may not have too popular an opinion here. This is a discussion forum. We post to discuss with one another. So what will happen if you post one of these unpopular opinions is that a lot of people will see it and in the spirit of discussion, reply with their opinions and counter-points. Sometimes, it will be a LOT of people replying to you because, again, unpopular opinion on a discussion forum.
It becomes easy to then feel like you're being piled onto and "attacked" for having the unpopular opinion even if everybody is keeping their tone civil. Don't fall into this trap.
I say all of this because I actually WANT some opposing viewpoints in here. It would be very interesting to me to see a rank and file Conservative's thoughts on these issues and if one can rebut without resorting to attacks or bigotry I think that might actually add something to the thread.
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One of the problems we have right now is there is Right, then there is Alt-Right. A conservative like Eisenhower or even Regan would be appalled by some of the shit that's going on right now.
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CNN: Obama called on Alabama voters to reject Roy Moore.
Am I the only one afraid this will backfire due to the OBAMA BAD!!! knee jerk?
Not if the calls are being targeted to the main Democratic voters of Alabama, aka, black people.
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One of the problems we have right now is there is Right, then there is Alt-Right. A conservative like Eisenhower or even Regan would be appalled by some of the shit that's going on right now.
Operation Wetback suggests Eisenhower would be pretty cool with Trump's immigration policies at least.
Reagan would only really be appalled by the cozying up to Russia.
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Operation Wetback suggests Eisenhower would be pretty cool with Trump's immigration policies at least.
Reagan would only really be appalled by the cozying up to Russia.
To be honest, there is a certain something about all elected republicans that makes me think of this little gem
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Operation Wetback suggests Eisenhower would be pretty cool with Trump's immigration policies at least.
Reagan would only really be appalled by the cozying up to Russia.
I don't think either would be okay with the general idiot and embarrassment Trump is. And yes, I know Reagan had Alzheimer's, but Trump has been an idiot his whole life.
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I honestly thought Trump running for President was a joke, but he was actually elected…..:wassat:
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@Monkey:
I'm confused as to why someone would have issues with "no nazis allowed".
I agree with people who say this is a circle jerk (because, let's face it, it is) but people coming in here and asking exactly about that is very, very unsettling.
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I agree with people who say this is a circle jerk (because, let's face it, it is) but people coming in here and asking exactly about that is very, very unsettling.
Circle jerks are great; everyone gets off.
jk, it's always good to get opposing view points to argue with and challenge our own views.
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Circle jerks are great; everyone gets off.
jk, it's always good to get opposing view points to argue with and challenge our own views.
And to be fair, there are some people in this thread who do have opposing views or are debating stuff sometimes, but mostly it's people with the same political outlook. Not that it's a bad thing, as long as everyone's aware of it ;)
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I mean, part of the issue is that this thread is here all the time and you can only debate different philosophies so much. Is it a bit of an echo chamber? Sure. But for the most part parties with different view points have already said their piece.
Imo the best discussion on here comes from analysis and speculation about current political events, nuanced policy points in particular. Otherwise we're all just cursing/crying together.
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It's not that much of a circle jerk, me and Nilitch are here too!
Oh and Robo always makes a point of presenting both sides :ninja: /sarcasm /friendlyjab
EDIT: i do actually think the 'circlejerk' nature of the thread really died down after the "Quick Announcement" brennen.exe posted in July. It really became a lot friendlier shortly after that, made it actually enjoyable to post in this thread after that… was a bit like warfare beforehand.
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It's not that much of a circle jerk, me and Nilitch are here too!
Nilitch was threadbanned, so he's not here anymore (unless that was lifted).
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I'm sure this thread will get competitive again once various Democrats start throwing their hat in the presidential race in a little over a year (yes, that soon).