Quick Announcement; Forum Rules, Guidelines, Staff

brennen.exe

Hey everyone. Quick announcement:

We've received complaints of favoritism and bullying/harassment; we want to address this, and will be revising our rules as a first step.
While discussing things with the staff, we've seen a need for some more active moderation; we may be looking to adjust our roster.
Some of staff members have/may step down in one form or another due to their availability or other concerns.

Bottom line, we want to address the attitude on the forum, and we think that needs to start with us. We'll be adjusting the forum rules over time to help address this, with announcements on the changes as we go, and hope to move forward with a more positive atmosphere in general.

Consider this an open thread for concerns and/or discussion, but please try to keep things constructive. This isn't the gossip corner and we aren't therapists. Please don't backseat mod.

Thatanas

More active modding would obviously be nice, but I'm personally not aware of any favoritism/bullying/harassment. Might be that I'm not active enough (I read more than post), but if the signs are there it's good that you guys are taking action.

Good luck!

KageKageKing

I guess that explains why Robby is Yellow now.

joekido the Second

I don't see much favoritism/bullying/harassment going on nor have I experienced much of it lately but this has been going on for many years and the staff have already dealt with this issues many times. But this is much needed.

auem

Haven't seen much bullying lately, but don't want the trolls take over the forum.Little bit harsh to a newcomer is ok, or else this forum will be degraded to the likes of Oro Jackson….

dropper

I've witnessed a lot of this in the general sections, especially the news and politics threads. A lot of the members would rather single someone out for having a differing opinion, attacking them just to validate themselves instead of having an active discussion. I suspect certain moderators are also biased.

MetaMario

Hasn't happened to me personally but I can see where/why some people would complain. Hope it works out well for the forum, then.

Sakonosolo

Think I've only really seen anything like this in the politics thread so it doesn't seem to me like site wide rule changes are really necessary, at least from my perspective, though I don't go in the manga or anime sections so maybe they're there too.

Shift

For my part, I haven't seen too much controversy in the Anime threads, but I realized I haven't had my eye firmly planted on them all, so I wouldn't be surprised if at least some problems have gotten passed me. So I'll be making more of an effort with being diligent. And if anyone ever finds an issue there, please PM me and I'll be on it.

Nilitch

@dropper:

I've witnessed a lot of this in the general sections, especially the news and politics threads. A lot of the members would rather single someone out for having a differing opinion, attacking them just to validate themselves instead of having an active discussion. I suspect certain moderators are also biased.

There might be some centrism-is-wisdom people on this forum but no, implying that the Labour was behind the bomb attack at Ariana Grande's concert to get better rankings in the polls was still a crazy thing to say.

andre

@Nilitch:

There might be some centrism-is-wisdom people on this forum but no, implying that the Labour was behind the bomb attack at Ariana Grande's concert to get better rankings in the polls was still a crazy thing to say.

That does sound like a particularly horrible thing to say, but that thread is very centrist and has in the past been very elitist. It should have been expected around election time, but a lot of people were treated with little respect and there was serial condescension.

That condescension is all over here and people tend to gang up on others, especially new members. I enjoy this forum and it's culture can allow for a level of conversation that isn't easily found on the web, but man, it can be frustrating just reread how some unpopular opinions are treated and have been for years. There has to be a happy median that preserves the level of conversation, but makes this place more inviting at the same time.

Last thing. I imagine a lot of people who would have readily complained are either gone or just lurk. I haven't experienced much disrespect my way, but I've seen enough that I was delighted to see that it's being addressed.

Kaido King of the Beasts

I have seen stuff like this around the forum and am happy at the idea of measures being taken. It's petered out in the manga section where I'm usually at but I still see traces, so it's good that it's being worked on.

Femme

@Kaido:

I have seen stuff like this around the forum and am happy at the idea of measures being taken. It's petered out in the manga section where I'm usually at but I still see traces, so it's good that it's being worked on.

Be sure to report instances of broken rules and/or just awful stuff going down if you see it. We don't catch everything.

Kaido King of the Beasts

@Femme:

Be sure to report instances of broken rules and/or just awful stuff going down if you see it. We don't catch everything.

Yeah, I've tried. Just hasn't been happening as much where I usually go nowadays

dropper

@Nilitch:

There might be some centrism-is-wisdom people on this forum but no, implying that the Labour was behind the bomb attack at Ariana Grande's concert to get better rankings in the polls was still a crazy thing to say.

I said no such thing. Why would you actively go so far out of your way to bring something topically unrelated to this thread? Oh right, because apparently it's your job to single people out to justify your own horrible behavior. I must have touched a funny bone.

@andre:

That does sound like a particularly horrible thing to say, but that thread is very centrist and has in the past been very elitist. It should have been expected around election time, but a lot of people were treated with little respect and there was serial condescension.

That condescension is all over here and people tend to gang up on others, especially new members. I enjoy this forum and it's culture can allow for a level of conversation that isn't easily found on the web, but man, it can be frustrating just reread how some unpopular opinions are treated and have been for years. There has to be a happy median that preserves the level of conversation, but makes this place more inviting at the same time.

A perfect example of of what's happening in this thread as seen above and in areas of touchy subjects. I made a comment saying that the right-wing in the UK would play the terrorist card after the attack (which is what ended up happening), yet somehow this member has came to a complete opposite conclusion. Now Nilitch is using it to berate me on this completely separate thread which ironically is addressing these issues.

Femme

@Nilitch:

There might be some centrism-is-wisdom people on this forum but no, implying that the Labour was behind the bomb attack at Ariana Grande's concert to get better rankings in the polls was still a crazy thing to say.

You are bringing up a misunderstanding that was clarified in the news thread when it happened. To bring this up again after Dropper clarified his stance at the time is basically harassment and you're the one out of line right now.

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=40847&page=677&p=3786736&viewfull=1#post3786736

The Politics and the News threads will always be a place where disagreements and differing opinions will happen which is why there's always a need for policing by the mods there. However, we expect that people will discuss their disagreements in a civil manner and not drag situations about all over the forum, months later.

CCC

What Femme said. Disagree in those threads (which are inherently thornier places), do it as peacefully as possible, and don't spread the poison to other parts of the forum.

Don Quichotte De Flamingo

There are always people who have to complain and always people who want to turn discussions in a nightmare.
As a community the thin line of it being accepted and it making people hate the place, always varies and is a point of discussion.
Being open about it and and just stop adding fuel would help greatly.
In the past we had often the case that the process of deleting and banning people was nontransparent so there could room for improvement.

Eldir

The only place I visit is Manga and Spoiler Section. Spoiler topics can sometimes get out of the hand when two opposing opinions clash. Try keeping spoiler topics civil.

Nilitch

Being zealous/harsh against new members is actually a thing that exists in every social groups I think. Because people don't know who the newcomer is.
And in a community like AP in which some have been around for a decade or more, there might be a caste (yes lol, but yes, right?).

Anyway, I don't see the specific issues here. I don't get if we have to talk about those specific issues or if we just have to agree that we witnessed "those things" –-to be honest.
And it seems that there is also something about biased moderation, but how can we talk about it though? Do people have to name those mods? Should people bring up things they have/are complaining about? But if they do, wouldn't that break the "This isn't the gossip corner and we aren't therapists" rule ?

In other words, I don't get how it is supposed to be constructive, if we keep being unclear about what we're talking about.

@Femme:

You are bringing up a misunderstanding that was clarified in the news thread when it happened. To bring this up again after Dropper clarified his stance at the time is basically harassment and you're the one out of line right now.

Except that I was not bringing it up because I have suddenly turned into a nitpicky boy, but because I thought this was what he was referring to. If not, then okay– I guess.

RoboBlue

@Nilitch:

Being zealous/harsh against new members is actually a thing that exists in every social groups I think. Because people don't know who the newcomer is.
And in a community like AP in which some have been around for a decade or more, there might be a caste (yes lol, but yes, right?).

Anyway, I don't see the specific issues here. I don't get if we have to talk about those specific issues or if we just have to agree that we witnessed "those things" –-to be honest.
And it seems that there is also something about biased moderation, but how can we talk about it though? Do people have to name those mods? Should people bring up things they have/are complaining about? But if they do, wouldn't that break the "This isn't the gossip corner and we aren't therapists" rule ?

In other words, I don't get how it is supposed to be constructive, if we keep being unclear about what we're talking about.

Except that I was not bringing it up because I have suddenly turned into a nitpicky boy, but because I thought this was what he was referring to. If not, then okay– I guess.

It wasn't relevant to the topics of alleged bias and harassment. Specifics are extremely important, but did Dropper actually harass anyone?

Nilitch

@RoboBlue:

but did Dropper actually harass anyone?

You mean in the situation I thought he was referring to? No, but he might have thought he was being harassed by whoever was answering him back then.

Foolio

@Nilitch:

And it seems that there is also something about biased moderation, but how can we talk about it though? Do people have to name those mods? Should people bring up things they have/are complaining about? But if they do, wouldn't that break the "This isn't the gossip corner and we aren't therapists" rule ?

In other words, I don't get how it is supposed to be constructive, if we keep being unclear about what we're talking about.

If you have specific complaints then PM the staff.

Femme

@Nilitch:

Except that I was not bringing it up because I have suddenly turned into a nitpicky boy, but because I thought this was what he was referring to. If not, then okay– I guess.

Just to close this situation, you brought up a misunderstood implication, which he then later clarified that he didn't mean.

This is a problem because you've publicly made mention of a mistake, now further spreading the idea that he said a political party was behind a terrorist attack to new people in this thread who have no idea what you're talking about.

That is the reason why we are stepping in, because it's essentially ruining a member's reputation because of a misunderstanding. Let's close this matter now.

sabret00the

Walks into thread.
Remembers the time he got banned from a whole thread/series for saying he wished scanlations of that series came out quicker and one of the people who has an official job scanlating the series had a hissyfit.

"Ahhhh favouritism"

Leaves thread

dwo

I never experienced anything negative in this forum.

But I never joined a political thread either. I didnt even knew there is such a thing here.

My advice: shut down completely political threads.

Kaptayn

@dwo:

I never experienced anything negative in this forum.

That's probably because you never had a discussion with M********* yet!

Mr M

Wooden_Giraffe

So when do we start the giant fight to the death between the current 4-stars? Winner gets promoted, losers get eaten by Wagomu.

Kitsune Inferno

Can I just say that we don't have a clique problem at this school?

PinkoPico

I never did understand the means of favoritism or witnessing it nonetheless.

Outerspec

@dwo:

I never experienced anything negative in this forum.

But I never joined a political thread either. I didnt even knew there is such a thing here.

My advice: shut down completely political threads.

That'd be a huge disservice to people on here interested in real life events outside of things like ComicCon and the like.

And I love ComicCon and all the news surrounding it but I also appreciate there's a place on here for discussion of more serious matters. My advice is that people in the politics thread try to be more friendly to those of differing opinion, rather than shutting it all down.

Yes, politics can naturally be a thorny topic but unless someone is coming in sprouting hate speech we can also be civil enough to inspire more diverse debate.

Femme

True, I've personally learned a lot about American politics from those threads despite the occasional rift in there from time to time.

@Kaptayn:

That's probably because you never had a discussion with M********* yet!

This isn't a public calling-out thread, so if you have issues with a specific member, PM a mod with your concerns.

AfroSamurai

Favouritism huh… I'd like to say none of that's ever happened to me... but you know... If i'm completely honest I understand that I have inflammatory opinions... so perhaps this is no surprise... but...

I kinda see the Politics thread as a place that is completely and utterly sealed within its mod enforced bubble of acceptable opinions, usually highly skewed towards whatever the democratic party believes, and where opinions that don't fit the mold are cast out by members and mods alike, with anyone bold enough to post comments going against the general consensus being basically vilified by the people who regularly frequent the thread. To be honest, arguing when the mods are so blatantly biased towards your ideological opponent is not enjoyable, scares off anyone who might agree with you, kills opportunities for sharing of opinions and dialogue between opponents, and I often get the feeling that I'm not wanted there, not by the mods, not by the members that frequent the thread, and definitely not by a certain cat with a fedora...

It's such a hostile place that I've had likeminded people DM me privately, telling me that while they agree with me, they're not comfortable sharing their opinions on the politics thread due to the sheer level of backlash that doing so would entail.

So yeah, do something about that. In my view, AP's politics thread doesn't reflect the plurality of political views at AP, it only shows the far left ones, because anyone who isn't far left is too scared of the damage to their reputation and standing with the mods to ever post anything.

(too much? idk, that place pisses me off regularly enough and this seems like the right place to vent about it)

Wintermute

This post is deleted!

flyingteapot

Hello, this could be my first post in years… I'm very surprised to see a step like this, so I hope writing this here is not a problem. Please delete this if this is not the place. I've been a member since 2009 and until a couple of years ago, I used to log in daily and love chatting around, loved seeing all these news and translations, and fun discussions about OP here. I used to recommend AP forums to all my friends who loved OP. It was like reading the newspaper in the morning for me.

But eventually I started noticing some very rude answers and some obvious favoritism of some more "popular" people of that time. Not necessarily always against me, but as in generally to others. These people were given a bit more authority over time despite being very rude obviously. Knowing that any form of reply or post we make could be replied by someone making fun of it took the fun out of things. Sometimes people needlessly took sides or only paid attention to what they post. So I started thinking "I'd better not say anything at all" most of the time. This pattern started to become an unwanted stress… I lost my enthusiasm for logging in daily and eventually stopped by only to read what's going on.

By the way, this is by no means pointing fingers, I even have no idea if the people I'm talking about are still active here since I'm not following everything like I used to. Anyway, it's in the past now.

Just wanted to say these since I saw first post and it pointed out "We've received complaints of favoritism and bullying/harassment; we want to address this, and will be revising our rules as a first step." and "While discussing things with the staff, we've seen a need for some more active moderation; we may be looking to adjust our roster."

Thank you for paying attention.

I hope things get better for everyone.

Kasouya

hmm because i am only lurking on manga thread i don't see any of this, troll maybe but yeah. my 2 cent for this just up hold the rule.

Laffitte Doflamingo

@auem:

Haven't seen much bullying lately, but don't want the trolls take over the forum.Little bit harsh to a newcomer is ok, or else this forum will be degraded to the likes of Oro Jackson….

Not sure what you mean by "Little bit harsh to a newcomer is ok". I don't think there should be any favoritism.
However, it is inevitable that old members, (or "prestigious" member), have a group of friends/supporters in a community and just like andre said:
@andre:

That condescension is all over here and people tend to gang up on others, especially new members.

Discouraging newcomers really makes a place degrade.

auem

@Laffitte:

Not sure what you mean by "Little bit harsh to a newcomer is ok". I don't think there should be any favoritism.
However, it is inevitable that old members, (or "prestigious" member), have a group of friends/supporters in a community and just like andre said:

Discouraging newcomers really makes a place degrade.

Newcomers with the attitude of 'i know it all' while having very little understanding of OP-verse should be discouraged.
Problems with so called 'prestigious' members are everywhere, not a isolated situation in AP forums.I have seen worse in NF….

Laffitte Doflamingo

@auem:

Newcomers with the attitude of 'i know it all' while having very little understanding of OP-verse should be discouraged.
Problems with so called 'prestigious' members are everywhere, not a isolated situation in AP forums.I have seen worse in NF….

I agree that people with the attitude of 'i know it all' while having very little understanding of OP-verse should be discouraged, but not limited to newcomers. Old members of the same type should be discouraged as well (being an old member doesn't necessarily make anyone know more about OP than newcomers).

Kaptayn

@Femme:

This isn't a public calling-out thread, so if you have issues with a specific member, PM a mod with your concerns.

I did not call out anybody. But the fact that you had no trouble connecting a letter and several * kind of reinforces what I think.
Why should it be made private when everyone instantly knows what I'm talking about?

Purple Hermit

Because this is not the place to address those concerns nor is it conducive to improving the forum.

If you've got some helpful advice or criticism, PM a mod with your concerns.

Femme

Yup, what purple said.

Katzztar

This post is deleted!