Chapter 1083: The Truth of That Day
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This chapter has brought a question to the front of my mind. I've asked it in a few places, including OPP's Piece the Tweet and the spoiler thread, but I'm honestly interested in the overall view:
Do you feel that Oda could/should have done more to play up the religious angle of the Celestial Dragons? I don't think it's emphasized enough that they consider themselves the "gods" in Marijoa's title of the "Land of the Gods".
Sure the terminology is there, with Celestial Dragons, Heavenly Tribute, Holy Knights, Sacred Marijoa, but it seems like in-story nobody but themselves believe it, even though their being seen as divine goes a long way to explaining how they get away with so much.
We, the audience, are well aware that the Celestial Dragons are overly entitled, pampered scumbags, but maybe we know it TOO well, to the point it's unclear if the setting at large feels the same.
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@sgamer82
There is this scene from the post-war flashback
maybe just one scene in 1000+ chapters isn't enough, but I think in general we know the civilian population trust the wg propaganda, so I don't doubt the Goa population applies to the average wg affiliated country.But I certainly think what needs explanation is why the marines support their bullshit, but I don't think it's too late for that as we still know nothing about Imu.
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So the truth that happened that day was that Karasu has the soot-soot logia power, right ? Because we didn't learn much about the numerous other mysteries from the reverie :-)
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It's going to turn out that no one murdered Cobra and he just dropped dead of tuberculosis the moment he walked into the Elder Stars' room.
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Convenient lethal disease strikes another victim.
At least Morgans didn't spin it into anti-vax propaganda... this time.
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Makes you think, huh?
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Can't say I'm surprised with Shanks silhouette up front defending Marijoa
What a bitch.
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@black-leg-jex said in Spoilers 1,083. Not by Redon!:
Also where exactly are they? It looks like a balcony and has a big number 2 on it, but it's clearly away from the action going on.
Lucci and Vivi are on these stairs:
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So is there a soot/crow pun in Japanese or Karasu’s name (I guess his name is Crow so that answers that…, but still curious if there’s a soot pun somewhere)? That’s usually how Oda comes up with motifs of things.
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Some details about the timeline:
- Ch 925 says the Revolutionary attack happened in the 4th (of 7) day of Reverie.
- Ch 956 has the "Alabasta incident" soon after the Reverie closed.
- Ch 1054 places the attack hours before the incident.
- Ch 1083 has the attack coming "during the Reverie", confirming Ch 925. Also, everything is in place for Cobra's death to happen soon, as in Ch 1054.
So, was Garp's info wrong?
Maybe it wasn't Oda's mistake, rather Cobra's death was hidden until the Reverie ended?
Another small detail most will miss: this helps us clarify the time passed since Luffy woke up.
- The Revolutionary attack happened in the 4th day of Reverie.
- 10 days later (7 after Reverie), there was the Onigashima raid.
- Luffy and Zoro woke up another 7 days later. Big party.
- Then the Straw Hats stayed in Wano for "a few days" before leaving.
- Then, we got another "a few days later" between them leaving and reaching Egghead.
This means the two small timeskips must have been at least 13 days in sum, but it probably took a bit more. Something between 2 and 3 weeks?
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@Tarek That's interesting, it makes sense that Vivi is there, since she wants to ask for Garp's help, and we know the marines are down the Bondolas in the Red Port.
This is no casual meeting, Lucci has been ordered to follow her. He's probably just waiting the order to kill or kidnap Vivi.
Since everyone else is at Pangea, the rescue will probably come by Chaka and Pell, who will arrive in the nick of time.
As for Wapol... he hates Vivi.
He probably was scheming something and followed her up. Seeing the assassination/kidnapping attempt probably put his own life in danger, so he had to team up with her to get away.
It will be interesting to see the contrast between Lucci siding with Luffy in Egghead and trying to murder/kidnap Vivi in the flashback.
To me, it's a sign that Lucci will get his comeuppance in Egghead. I think he will betray Luffy at some point, and then get what he deserves.
(I'm now worried about Chaka and Pell. Even thought Pell is immortal, lol)
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@sgamer82 said in Chapter 1083: The Truth of That Day:
This chapter has brought a question to the front of my mind. I've asked it in a few places, including OPP's Piece the Tweet and the spoiler thread, but I'm honestly interested in the overall view:
Do you feel that Oda could/should have done more to play up the religious angle of the Celestial Dragons? I don't think it's emphasized enough that they consider themselves the "gods" in Marijoa's title of the "Land of the Gods".
Sure the terminology is there, with Celestial Dragons, Heavenly Tribute, Holy Knights, Sacred Marijoa, but it seems like in-story nobody but themselves believe it, even though their being seen as divine goes a long way to explaining how they get away with so much.
We, the audience, are well aware that the Celestial Dragons are overly entitled, pampered scumbags, but maybe we know it TOO well, to the point it's unclear if the setting at large feels the same.
It depends on how the average people see them. If they see them as tyrants with endless I think its been portrayed fine so far.
If they see them as a seprate race like the image downstairs shows then I think that needed more emphasis.
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Well colour me surprised that we're not just contining straight on with the scene that ended the last chapter but going into what seems to be a full-fledged, multi-chapter Reverie flashback. This is not guaranteed of course - most flashbacks end mid-chapter with the black panel gutters fading back to white, but there were also points in Zou where you can see a black-gutter flashback run right to the end of a chapter and the first panel of the next chapter is right back to white gutters and present day. Anything could still happen next week, but it seems like we'll keep going with this plot thread. This is most likely the seventh chapter of volume 107 though, and the run of cutaways started in the (probable) second chapter. We're getting dangerously close to spending a whole volume away from the Strawhats and - as I've said repeatedly - it feels like we broke from their story mid-sentence. I don't know if this structure will stand the test of time.
I really enjoyed seeing a more grounded strategic side of the Revolutionaries this week. The steps taken to besiege and starve out the Celestial Dragons make a lot of sense. I can't imagine it's easy to grow food in such rocky terrain at such extreme altitudes and that is a perfectly pragmatic thing to take advantage of. I'd be interested to see the mood inside Mariejoa right now, how much the Roswalds and Charloses of the ruling class are leaning on the Elders over reduced rations.
Sabo's determined acceptance of Cobra's death as a step toward his idea of the greater good is a surprisingly morally grey choice for his chapter, and one that I think offers a lot of depth to both him and the Revolutionaries as a whole. And it definitely feels like something neither Luffy or Ace would ever have said, which helps him stand out from the shadows of his siblings. I've expressed disappointment in the past that writing the Revolutionaries to only be against "bad kings" rather than the monarchist system that enables them kinda defangs their rhetoric and goals, but moments like this - where there is this event that I feel sad about because I knew Cobra and don't want to see Vivi hurt by his death and we have Sabo taking the unsympathetic stance of 'I'm okay with that for the sake of my goals' - that restore that feeling of more complicated politics and help me trust Oda has a plan for it all.
People were getting really worked up over the Holy Knights thing when the spoilers and scans came out for this one. Personally, I'm astonished at how much of a nothingburger they ended up being in the chapter. The silhouettes seem varied enough that I'm guessing Oda has an idea of their designs already. I guess that one in the middle kinda looks like Shanks. More the sword than anything else, I think. Sure, Film Red implied Shanks might be the wayward child of a Celestial Dragon family, and yeah there's fun theory potential in it being a sibling or something that met with the Elders during the Reverie, but literally none of that is in the chapter. Could still be true, but it's not here.
The idea of these guys being mobilised as a real threat to the Revolutionaries in the field is an interesting one. From their first mention in chapter 1054 I'd figured this lot was more for mediating disputes between Celestial Dragon families and keeping the peace among the highest authorities in the world, that no one else could possibly keep in line.
I think some people are being a tad premature predicting these guys to be Imu's boss crew or whatever. A lot of build up with the Marines would need to be thrown aside for these guys to become the main fighting force that represents the World Government against the Strawhats in the endgame, and we're all getting very presumptuous about the future roles and powers of a group that have literally been mentioned twice in nearly 1100 chapters. Execution is everything, but we don't even know what Oda's trying to execute yet! Literally zero information. I'll wait and see, thanks.
The Revolutionaries get a great showing here. I love Karasu from a power and design perspective. The idea that he's just got a normal elemental logia but is adept enough at using it that he makes his transformation into theme-fitting crow shapes, which he can even talk out of, is an absolute game-changer. I want to see more logias using their fluid bodies to show of personal animal motifs and other wild forms! This guy is the only one using his logia correctly. I know we like to speculate that logia Awakenings are a permanent shift to the environment, but Karasu is actually out here doing things no one else with his kind of fruit is doing.
Morley is absolutely out of proportion compared to his first appearance here, but the spread is cool enough that I don't really care. Going back to chapter 1054 to double check that first Holy Knights mention also let me rediscover a panel which makes a fun parallel with the nobles bickering about collateral damage and CP0 musing about the admirals being held back in the latest chapter.
And speaking of, I'm not the biggest fan of all of CP9 making the jump to CP0. It's not awful, but it might have been more fun to spread them out, some of them ending up in different divisions or even going their own way after Spandam's betrayal. Kind of like how most of Baroque Works rediscovered their original dreams and left. Oh well.
As final thoughts on the start of this flashback I have to wonder if we'll learn anything about Bonney and Kuma in this sequence that will tie immediately back into the Egghead plot. It's certainly a possibility, and I absolutely love Vivi standing up to Lucci here. It does feel like more setup than substance, but that increases my confidence we'll be exploring this part of the past for at least a couple more chapters. The original Reverie chapters made for one of the most explosive and exciting times to be a One Piece fan back in 2018, feeling like we were getting more plot and lore in one go than we had for years. If we're really going back for the unabridged version right now the next month or two could be huge. Hopefully next week we'll get a clear idea of how far down the rabbit hole Oda intends to take us.
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@desa said in Chapter 1083: The Truth of That Day:
@sgamer82 said in Chapter 1083: The Truth of That Day:
This chapter has brought a question to the front of my mind. I've asked it in a few places, including OPP's Piece the Tweet and the spoiler thread, but I'm honestly interested in the overall view:
Do you feel that Oda could/should have done more to play up the religious angle of the Celestial Dragons? I don't think it's emphasized enough that they consider themselves the "gods" in Marijoa's title of the "Land of the Gods".
Sure the terminology is there, with Celestial Dragons, Heavenly Tribute, Holy Knights, Sacred Marijoa, but it seems like in-story nobody but themselves believe it, even though their being seen as divine goes a long way to explaining how they get away with so much.
We, the audience, are well aware that the Celestial Dragons are overly entitled, pampered scumbags, but maybe we know it TOO well, to the point it's unclear if the setting at large feels the same.
It depends on how the average people see them. If they see them as tyrants with endless I think its been portrayed fine so far.
If they see them as a seprate race like the image downstairs shows then I think that needed more emphasis.
I think there is a degree of that. We see it from the Dragons' side in Doflamingo's flashback. They treat human as a whole other race from themselves. Though if they see themselves as gods that makes sense.
I'm wondering now if there was a time when they were seen as gods by the populace, but they've gradually outgrown that belief to the point that the Revolutionaries can get a foothold in peoples' hearts & minds.
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So here's what Sabo's name looks like in the Japanese raws, with some sick flame-themed letters:
And I had kinda looked forward to getting a better look at them when the English release moved the text out of the way, but they replace the original lettering with a much more toned down but still slightly fiery font:
Which is at least better than the scanlations, which went with the most generic military stencil font imaginable:
In short, everyone dropped the ball this week, bring back the fire letters!
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@Captain-M said in Chapter 1083: The Truth of That Day:
We're getting dangerously close to spending a whole volume away from the Strawhats and - as I've said repeatedly - it feels like we broke from their story mid-sentence. I don't know if this structure will stand the test of time.
I think Oda will do a wake-up call to instantly invest the reader back in Egghead when we finally return to it.
Like, for instance, returning to reveal the SH already lost the battle. This could be Volume 107's cliffhanger (Ch 1086).
Then following chapters can rewind time a bit to quickly show what happened.
This would allow Oda to skip the reintroduction into Egghead ("Sanji is doing this", "Zoro is doing this"...) and instantly put tension back in the story.
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@Deicide I think you're on the money with this one, it's very in-line with how he handled concurrent plot threads and scene changes through Wano.
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Another thing I've been thinking about is how this flashback may go in Ch 1084 to cover everything needed.
I've came to the conclusion that there's 3 events that need to happen:
- Kuma's release (Includes Charlos' "assassination attempt", Mjosgard Intervention and Sabo/Bonney meeting)
- Cobra's assassination
- Vivi's disappearance
To try and fit all that into one chapter, I think the following frame device could work:
- Start with Cobra's meeting with the Elders. Their conversation frames the first half of the chapter.
- Cut to Kuma/Charlos/Roswald, and the events about it featuring Sabo/Bonney/Mjosgard
- That situation leads to the parties involved going their ways. From now on, Sabo's words telling the story frame the remainder of the chapter
- Cobra's death. Sabo barges in. Sees Imu.
- Cut to Vivi. Lucci attacks her. Chaka and Pell intervene. Vivi escapes
- Back to Sabo, As he escapes, we get a glimpse of Imu's face. Chapter ends with Sabo's closing words to Dragon and Ivankov.
Let's see how accurate this hypothesis will be.
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Seems very obvious to me at this point that Charlos "killer" was Bonney.
For Vivi, I think it's more simple that she will try to run past Lucci and he will attack to prevent her from going further. If Lucci was supposed to kill her from the beginning, he would've done it by now. It also ties to Cobra's words about Vivi causing the trouble herself.
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@King-Cannon He may be waiting the order. For now, he may have been asked only to be ready.
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I was fairly preoccupied with other interests, so I didn't keep up with the spoiler thread this time. I pretty meh chapter this time that personally I would've skipped or condensed most of it.
It's nice seeing that their plan has been to do all they can to turn Marijoa into a besieged fortress and that ultimately, we're seeing the results as the CDs are finally having to mobilize their own private forces. However, everything else about this scene drags and it drags for 5 full pages.
Happy to see the CDs have their own private faction, the Holy Knights, but we'll have to wait and see if we're looking at a squad for the strawhats to fight, or another set of Numbers around just to give others something to do and get punked.
We already knew they caused chaos, released a bunch of slaves, and kept the Admirals busy cause they couldn't go all out. I'm actually disappointed in what we see. I was hoping the revolutionaries were playing dirty and specifically targeting CDs, forcing the Admirals to be busy protecting them. What we got was significantly worse. Why couldn't we have seen Morley folding the ground to push CDs off the cliff and Karasu dragging them into the sky, so Fuji and Ryokugyu would've had to focus their gravity and vines on saving them? What we see, there's really no excuse for why Morley shouldn't have been stabbed and drained by vines. It just annoys me to waste so much time on the Revolutionary captains when I just can't believe they're gonna matter that much in the grand scheme of things in the final war. Just stay in the background where you guys belong.
The only saving grace of the chapter is finally seeing the rest of Cp9 decked out in their new outfits to assume they're cp0 too. I'm guessing they were on guard duty outside the castle, and I enjoy that they look like they have absolutely no interest to go join the action. I wonder where Spandam is now.
And finally we get to where the chapter should've started. Sabo's on his own in the castle looking for collar keys, Shirahoshi's still in danger, Vivi's being protected by Lucci, and Cobra's on his way to his meeting. Next should be everything actually interested we've been waiting for.
At the moment, I'll be most curious to see how Vivi disappears. Should be juicy to see how the heck she gets away from a Lucci personal guard, but it could be as simple as Lucci just listening and going to protect Shirahoshi instead.
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It has decent content, but overall not a well written chapter.
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Knowing how much Luffy is loving food I would assume not even him would have approved of destroying the food storage. The one person who would like to have a big party. You know it becomes serious when Oda is messing with food supply; pretty sure that is a way more heinous matter than slavery in the world of One Piece.
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I just realised where Vivi is and what she's doing now. She's about to ride the elevator down to the bottom of the Red Line so she can find Garp, who we know was chilling their with Hina and other Marines. I wonder if this is how she managed to avoid all the turmoil and escape?
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The reveal none asked for.
Shanks was just cosplaying as a pirate, he was WG agent all along collecting taxes for world nobles from countries under his yonkou flag.
On a more serious note, him having a clone explains him meeting gorosei. Why would yonkou just visit gorosei for a cup of tea. Arent they like... enemies?
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we shouldn't hate Shank alone
let's not forget his former captain literally protected and saved celestials from the Rocks pirates at the valley
that tells you something about those two.
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@Cockycent It's just a recap chapter.
Really, except for a few details, like the Revolutionary plan, most of this chapter is about things readers already knew because of the sprinkled information we got after Wano.
We knew the Revolutionaries burned the Celestial Dragon symbol and fought nerfed Admirals. This chapter just shows instead of telling it, but these are just quick glimpses, not full scenes.
Ch 1084 will probably contain real answers. Like:
- how Cobra died
- what Sabo saw in the throne room
- what's Bonney involvement
- who tried to kill Charlos
- how Mjosgard gets into all this
- how Sabo and Bonney escaped
- how Vivi ended up with Wapol and Morgans...
But even thought we may get some "whats" and "hows", we already know the conclusion for all those events as well.
Which leads me to think Oda is reserving a major reveal we aren't really expecting in order for this to pay off. I think that reveal will be Imu's face, but could be anything.
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This post is deleted!
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Most of the stories that feature a radical group of revolutionaries always get to a point in which the said revolutionaries "go too far" or end up doing horrible things for their believes and are equated with the villains. So I'm genuienly happy to see Dragon and his group still portrayed as doing good things and being the most assured allies in the final war. And it's interesting that while Luffy and the strawhats are happy to reinstate many kings around the world, the revolutionaries can have a more pragmatic approach.
This chapter really shows that the end goal for the Revos is not to mantain all monarchy around the world. It's just that without ending the CD system they can't do anything, because the WG is the support for all of the kings, like how they destroyed Lulusia after it became a democracy -
There is a break this week right? How come chapter scans dont state it any more or not the opening posts?
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@blue-san No break this week. Break after 1084.
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Aha ok then spoilers incoming
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You know, the tension at the end of Ch 1083 would be way higher if Vivi’s current status hadn’t been revealed yet. We’d be anxiously betting on her fate.
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@Deicide said in Chapter 1083: The Truth of That Day:
You know, the tension at the end of Ch 1083 would be way higher if Vivi’s current status hadn’t been revealed yet. We’d be anxiously betting on her fate.
Yeah Im thankful that she is safe, I cant handle the stress of not knowing
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@sgamer82 said in Chapter 1083: The Truth of That Day:
Do you feel that Oda could/should have done more to play up the religious angle of the Celestial Dragons? I don't think it's emphasized enough that they consider themselves the "gods" in Marijoa's title of the "Land of the Gods".
He definitely could have and would have been interesting to see but it doesnt feel like his style.
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The nobles really are too dumb to live. I can't believe these people haven't gotten themselves killed a dozen times over
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Just read that 1 of the main ingredients for Japanese calligraphy ink is soot.
Also, Miyazaki/Ghibli made Susuwatari for My Neighbor Totoro and Spirited Away that revert to soot when their task is done or they have nothing left to do.
I see messaging and varying task being the use of soot that Oda is reflecting here.
I think the way Karasu communicates through it has to do with the fact that he has to use an amplifier in his mask. Maybe some impairment allows him to do it. Like Daredevil having enhanced hearing due to his lack of sight.
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I think he is just carrying around small speakers in his crows, while speaking into a microphone. :)
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@Riccardo If there is a device, I don't know if i'd refer to it as a speaker because the soot is hearing and seeing where to go, then recognizing who to do task with from long distances.
It speaks to the pirate slave and tells him where to go. It gave the newspaper to the Revs when they were with Robin. It even spoke to Sabo as it carried him.
I see that the wikia has already gone ahead and decided that it is Logia. It tends to do this a lot. I don't see the issue with waiting, but I guess when many are already saying its confirmed, gotta roll with it.
I have also seen that soot can amplify the heat of flames and once the flame radiates in that way, it can get out of control. There is a chance for Sabo and Karasu's abilities to work together well if Oda wanted it to.
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To me, it's simple: Karasu is spreading himself far and into many pieces. This has drawbacks.
Logia can manipulate their body shape. However, unless they "release" their element, making it just normal stuff and not under their control anymore, all of it is "true body" and can be hurt by haki.
Karasu is essentially shaping himself into dozens (hundreds?) of "crows" made out of soot. He can see and speak throught each of them. But each is also part of him, and someone stabbing/blunting any of the crows with haki will hurt Karasu.
How he coordinates all the crows? By Shonen logic, he trained a lot to multitask. What I'm more amazed about it is that he's been shown to send crows across seas to deliver messages and comunicate, and that's kinda crazy since DFs often have a fairly limited range of effect.
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That's my first thought, but the key being that he is impaired in some way by the WG like Law's Amber Lead poisoning. A victim that survived.
I won't say that what the other user said is impossible with a device being involved. The Logia aspect, I can't call it.
If Akainu tossed a piece of himself as lava across the world, could it listen, speak, and recall what is going on? It leaves the door open for the possibility of Paramecia as well and that is why I can't just jump on the Logia speculation yet because it can go either way.
If it was a Logia, I believe being impaired some way could allow a user to take it that far. Not farfetched.
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@Cockycent To me, once the fruit name was revealed, I can't see it being anything other than Logia. Karasu just specialized on using it in his own way.
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@Cockycent said in Chapter 1083: The Truth of That Day:
I see that the wikia has already gone ahead and decided that it is Logia. It tends to do this a lot. I don't see the issue with waiting, but I guess when many are already saying its confirmed, gotta roll with it.
Because soot is an element that can be found in nature, since it's just half-burnt carbon that is normally the result of any wildfire. It's not like mochi, which is an artificial substance and the likely reason Oda retconned its classification.
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