"It will be a laugther that'll bury you all" was a neat anarchist slogan, after all.
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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I'm only OK with it being Luffy's DF because it could mean Shanks snitched on him to the Gorosei and that would lead to an unpredictable outcome.
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Greg, I'm not sure if you talked about this in a column or somewhere in this or any thread. Did you expect something like, what happened at the end of chapter 1,042? I'm especially talking about the parallel between Kaido's fight, someone is always interfering when he has a good opponent that he finds worthy of fighting.
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I do think there's an excellent chance this plays into the secret of the Boundman design which was teased when it made its anime debut.
What was that again? I don't remember much from anime Dressrosa.
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What was that again? I don't remember much from anime Dressrosa.
Maybe Greg is talking about, the part where Luffy transforms into G4 and his fruit is sort of displayed while the transformation occurs.
(Starts at about 1:40)Also the OST seems rather Wano-esque.
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1:50 looks like the Kozuki symbol
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Naw, that's just author hyping stuff for the audience. That shouldn't be taken at face value as an actual quandary he was having that he was so stumped years in advance that he'd have to inform readers that he was stumped.
That's pure hype.
I always saw that quote as a mixture of hype and him telling the audience he doesn't plan every little detail in advance.
Like, "Hey guys, sometimes I just have a cool idea, put it in the manga, and then I figure out the best way to deal with it. I just said Kaidou is the strongest there is, because I have this secret backstory for him, etc, and now I gotta find a way to make Luffy cooler that's not just punching really hard." -
I'm only OK with it being Luffy's DF because it could mean Shanks snitched on him to the Gorosei and that would lead to an unpredictable outcome.
Snitched about Luffy having the gum gum fruit?, There's no way that wasnt of their knowledge already.
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Snitched about Luffy having the gum gum fruit?, There's no way that wasnt of their knowledge already.
Maybe he snitched about which fruit could bloom into the legendary one.
Roger told him something, maybe it was about how to tell it apart.
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Shanks talked to the elders like a month ago, why would they only just now be sending priority 1 override message on Luffy?
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No one thought they'd actually make it this far
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Greg, I'm not sure if you talked about this in a column or somewhere in this or any thread. Did you expect something like, what happened at the end of chapter 1,042?
Did I expect CP-0 to interfere? Not at ALL. That was a total surprise.
Did I expect Oda to force Kaido to relive his greatest trauma? Not at ALL! Brilliant move to round him out for the decisions he makes from here.
Did I expect that Luffy and Co. needed things to get REALLY bad before the win? Yes. Absolutely. This is what I was talking about when I said the plan needed to fail.
I've said it here and other locations, but for the story to reach a crescendo that Oda will make in long arcs without fail there needed to be a major loss that puts everyone at stake where everything depends on a single strike.
So why wasn't it a big deal yet? Because the citizens of Wano still aren't under direct threat. Yeah, the island will fall and do damage, but it's not under immediate threat (ie. the island isn't in freefall).
Interestingly enough, Oda was careful to foreshadow that once Kaido is KO'd nothing's holding up the island. We have a few options for a dramatic conclusion that involves chaos (the island falling) rather than conflict. I think once Kaido is dealt with, we'll have this battle's final form of danger in the form of chaos as the island falls.
How is it saved?
Zunesha is a pretty swell option if it can get up there/reach but that seems a bit too easy.
I don't think Oda will have Momo's clouds be enough, that seems a bit of a stretch even with age up, unless he gives him a grounded super Saiyan moment.
But more importantly, what's the best way that dramatically incorporates those wish lanterns?
It seems like those wish lanterns will play a dramatic role floating up there and delivering the wishes of the people of Wano. If Oda goes with the spirit angle, it's quite possible it could even be involved with the actual resolution but that seems like a bit much. So which part do the wishes play in? The defeat of Kaido, or the saving of the island? Personally, the defeat of Kaido would seem to be the most satisfying since we could see the spirits of those he's wronged appear.
There's….also the option of them just showing up to be 'pretty' and make for a sweet ending, but I hope that they're involved on even an inspirational level because it would mean the people of Wano were also involved in saving themselves.
No one thought they'd actually make it this far
I think there's a good chance this may wind up being the explanation he goes with.
It's easy enough to swallow that while someone is walking around with the nuclear football but:
1. Have no idea what they're holding, nor does the rest of the world.
2. Have no chance in hell of activating it.By drawing unnecessary attention to it, they'd only be raising eyebrows and they may literally have been waiting for him to die.
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You just gave me the mental image of Onigashima landing on Zunisha's head and now I really want Zunisha o wear the skull as a hat.
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Probably a helmet in Elden Ring.
Logistically though, if Zunesha can get in there, I wonder if Oda will expand on the idea of how it may be able to possibly rear up, articulate its front legs, and reach fantastic heights. If so this would aid the Thriller Bark shadow idea I proposed.
If Zunehsa cannot make it up there, I wonder if the trunk can make it. I don't…think...it's quite that long, but maybe...
Either way, I see Zunesha primarily serving the function of making sure the Strawhats can make it away from Wano with some semblance of believability.
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There's….also the option of them just showing up to be 'pretty' and make for a sweet ending, but I hope that they're involved on even an inspirational level because it would mean the people of Wano were also involved in saving themselves.
Hopefully Luffy sees them and got hit with a flash of inspiration to come up with a new power up.
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Perhaps Zunisha might be able to stretch his trunk quite a bit to grab up there. Or perhaps the combination of trunks and legs make for good climbing tools. No idea really?
About the entire Florian Triangle thing. I'm not ruling out the possibility, but hasn't the FT been this mysterious area between Water Seven and Fishman Island where ships get lost for years? If Zunisha is actually the thing in the mist, respectively being the one responsible for the mist, wouldn't that mean the FT is a pretty generic stretch of sea when Zunusha is not around?
Then again it might be explained by being a reappearing occurance rather than a permanent thing. But then again why should the mysterious mist be recorded only there and not anywhere else Zunisha is passing by? This is making me head spin the more I think about it. I'll better leave it here.^^'
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wouldn't that mean the FT is a pretty generic stretch of sea when Zunusha is not around?
The nice thing about FT is it has several things going for it:
1. The giant shadow(s)
2. It's Moriah's recruiting grounds.
3. It's covered in fog which would be ABOSLUTE HELL on the Grandline.So yeah, elephant or no elephant, the FT sucks.
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Do you think Oda would do the opposite of 1042, with Kaido getting distracted by the spirit of Oden and taking a big hit from Luffy head on?
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If the parallel continues then Luffy has to be put in a position close to death as a respect from Kaido.
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Do you think Oda would do the opposite of 1042, with Kaido getting distracted by the spirit of Oden and taking a big hit from Luffy head on?
That's a good question because it would leave the victory debatable, wouldn't it?
My knee-jerk reaction was 'no' because Oda wouldn't cheapen Luffy's victory (which I don't think he'd do at this stage) but if he wanted to be cruel and leave the question of superiority up for debate, he could have that happen.
Doesn't seem like a samurai thing to do though, tbh. Still, worth considering.
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The nice thing about FT is it has several things going for it:
1. The giant shadow(s)
2. It's Moriah's recruiting grounds.
3. It's covered in fog which would be ABOSLUTE HELL on the Grandline.So yeah, elephant or no elephant, the FT sucks.
That's actually the thing I'm wondering about. If Zunisha really is the thing in the FT, what's the source if the mist then? I ask this because Zunisha seems to be surrounded by fog wherever it goes. Which begs the question if it's following the mist or if it is the other way around? If Zunisha is the source of it, what about the FT?
Of course there's also the possibility that it's two unrelated types of mists, just like Arabasta is a country of sand with ir without Crocodile. But still it kind of intregues me if there's a connection.
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If Zunisha is the source of it, what about the FT?
I think I mentioned this way back when I noticed the similarities, but there are a few options for the shadows.
1. They're all different things. (this is what most people assume)
2. It's Zunesha.
3. It's Zunesha's mate.That kinda helps iron that out. I'd like to think there's only one super-powered god-elephant in the world, but hey, even god elephants get lonely, right?
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Now that you mention it, I think option 3 was the first thing I thought about, when the connection got brought up the first time. I mean Laboon is also not the only island whale, right?^^
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I am not much believer of the line 'nobody expected SHs to come this far' to justify why Gorosei never took serious action against Luffy till now ( if it is indeed Luffy's fruit they are worried about). Sure, the fruit have had not been 'awakened' in many centuries; but also nobody else raided Ennis Lobby and got away , nobody else broke into Impel Down and managed to get out ( Shiki fled, but didn't broke in) and most of all I am pretty sure nobody else got away with 3 admirals on his/her tail while being half-dead. It is hard to justify that the Gorosei , who even at the slightest hint of shift in balance take quick action, are only seeing the danger now. I will not be disappointed if it pans out this way anyway , but it should be consider a type of 'plot-hole' .
P.S : Worst they 'let' Kuma protect Sunny for 2 years.:ninja:
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I am not much believer of the line 'nobody expected SHs to come this far' to justify why Gorosei never took serious action against Luffy till now ( if it is indeed Luffy's fruit they are worried about). Sure, the fruit have had not been 'awakened' in many centuries; but also nobody else raided Ennis Lobby and got away , nobody else broke into Impel Down and managed to get out ( Shiki fled, but didn't broke in) and most of all I am pretty sure nobody else got away with 3 admirals on his/her tail while being half-dead. It is hard to justify that the Gorosei , who even at the slightest hint of shift in balance take quick action, are only seeing the danger now. I will not be disappointed if it pans out this way anyway , but it should be consider a type of 'plot-hole' .
P.S : Worst they 'let' Kuma protect Sunny for 2 years.:ninja:
That's my take on it aswell. Also it comes even more across as inconsequential if we consider that the very first time we see the Five Elder stars they are literally having Luffy's wanted poster in front of them and they claim, that they cannot allow this guy to roam as free anymore. That was a reaction after "only" defeating Crocodile thus causing the first crack in the balance of the three powers. But I guess running wild at all three WG facilitues (Enies Lobby, Impel Down and Marineford) and also defeating another warlord as well as punching a Celestial Dragon in the face is a plausible reason to pull a 180 on their decleration to not let Luffy roam free anymore. Wait what?
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I hate the idea of the FT monster being another elephant. I like there to be some unsolved unrelated mystery, there's more allure to that than making it just another thing that turned out to be important later. And I don't really like the way it's presented perspective-wise if it's supposed to be an elephant.
You gotta wonder how common knowledge it is to normies that there's a giant ass elephant walking around anyway.
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Perhaps it's a giant mammoth.:ninja:
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I don't know if it was already discussed here, but I find the wording of chapter 968 strange: Joyboy will appear, but before that Wano has to be opened first.
Luffy is mainly responsible for opening Wano and he is Joyboy…..or is he is not?
Is being a Joyboy something you have to acheive? DF awakening? Does this have implications for Wano's ending?
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
(Nb is Kaido depressed because he somehow realized he is 100% not JB?)
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I am not much believer of the line 'nobody expected SHs to come this far' to justify why Gorosei never took serious action against Luffy till now ( if it is indeed Luffy's fruit they are worried about). Sure, the fruit have had not been 'awakened' in many centuries; but also nobody else raided Ennis Lobby and got away , nobody else broke into Impel Down and managed to get out ( Shiki fled, but didn't broke in) and most of all I am pretty sure nobody else got away with 3 admirals on his/her tail while being half-dead. It is hard to justify that the Gorosei , who even at the slightest hint of shift in balance take quick action, are only seeing the danger now. I will not be disappointed if it pans out this way anyway , but it should be consider a type of 'plot-hole' .
P.S : Worst they 'let' Kuma protect Sunny for 2 years.:ninja:
Five Elders clearly had acknowledge Luffy's threat back at Arabasta but somehow not enough. But it's clear they put him under control since then.
This goes straight into the whole retroactive "let's hide Roger's D, but not Luffy's" plothole.
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I think I mentioned this way back when I noticed the similarities, but there are a few options for the shadows.
1. They're all different things. (this is what most people assume)
2. It's Zunesha.
3. It's Zunesha's mate.That kinda helps iron that out. I'd like to think there's only one super-powered god-elephant in the world, but hey, even god elephants get lonely, right?
Didnt Momo out right state that Zunesha was separated from their herd and punished to roam alone?
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This goes straight into the whole retroactive "let's hide Roger's D, but not Luffy's" plothole.
They hid his name after he found One Piece. People who were around before that (Like Kureha) know him as Gol D. Roger. I don't understand how that is a plot hole. It seems to me like they didn't try to hide the D in his name until after he made it to Laugh Tale.
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You could argue that they didn't need to hide Luffy's D because they already hid Roger's. It's easier to hide the biggest one so that peopleo won't make the connection than to hide every new D that appears (starting to sound like a dirty conversation)
But it still feels like a tiny plot hole
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I am not much believer of the line 'nobody expected SHs to come this far' to justify why Gorosei never took serious action against Luffy till now
Oh, I don't love the notion or anything. I'm just trying to think of ways Oda could force a justification.
Re: Zunesha herd
Sure! I was being over the top but if that shadow was indeed more than one being, yes, it would absolutely be the herd. Just…how it perfectly lines up with Zunesha seems too good to be a coincidence. For all we know that was indeed one elephant, but there are others around as well.
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@ Greg,
I am not pointing to you particular. We all are trying to justify our own doubt and finding a answer about plot points. You, knowing OP more than any of us here, will perhaps be more successful in it.If that FT moster was indeed Zunisha, do you have any theory of how it could pass through Red Line ?
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I think someone else mentioned about it using its trunk and that's certainly one way.
Another way is, a region of Red Line that has giant steppes which would be impossible for anything other than Zunisha to walk on.
And my idea has always been that it could use its massive multi-joined legs.It would rear up on its back legs and manipulate its front legs to reach up and find ground, pulling itself up. It might look a bit silly but then again, slugs crawling up it also look ridiculous ^o^
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That's certainly a theory !
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Or Zunisha has eaten the mimi no mi and can turn into Dumbo enabling him to fly over the Red Line.
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One of the FT shadows had its eyes (?) near the sea surface, that would be weird for an elephant.
As if it has a large head with his eyes located relatively low, like an octupus.
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I would imagine they just go through the Calm Belt, no?
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@Scabbard:
One of the FT shadows had its eyes (?) near the sea surface, that would be weird for an elephant.
As if it has a large head with his eyes located relatively low, like an octupus.
I don't think chapter 490 necessitates this is the case. I could be wrong, but I don't see eyes on the initial panel showing the three figures (or three bodyparts of one figure). the eyes come on the next panel's closeup, which could be at the top of the figures or anywhere else.
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Even the anime shows the eyes at the top of one of the initial figures and not at the water's surface. It could be that the eyes are at the top, it could be that they're at the bottom of them, or it could be a misdirect and the part of the figure we see in the closeups (the head) is not what we see in the later part.
Our first glimpse of Zunesha looked pretty similar to one of those figures,
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but seems to me to have been its leg.
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Which says to me that Oda has done the… legwork, to be pretty fuzzy about it all. The hardest evidence that the figures in the FT were individual creatures is the gwoooom sound effect seeming to come directly from the top of one of the figures.
@Johnny:
I would imagine they just go through the Calm Belt, no?
We don't have any information to suggest they do or don't have a relationship with the Sea Kings to allow this. My guess is that they do have a relationship given their similar way of "talking", but that the Sea Kings wouldn't let Zunesha in and out of the calm belt, given their presumed relationship to Joy Boy and that Zunesha's promise to me seems like it's because of a betrayal of Joy Boy. Maybe Zunesha is free to walk wherever he wants, but it makes more sense to me that he has to stay in the New World, away from his herd in Paradise. Of course it could be that he can walk everywhere but paradise, but a stricter limit to The New World would be more constrictive and helps build the mystery of the New World in general.
Oh, and my justification for why it's a herd is simple. He brings fog with him when he walks, but we have no reason to suspect that it lingers. If it is lingering and a giant elephant that brings fog happens to be present, it seems inevitable that it's actually a multitude of them creating more and more fog in a single area. If it's just Zunesha, or even a mate, then the fog is incidental, which makes little sense to me.
On an aside, Zunesha's way of speaking and the Sea Kings are exactly the same as Luffy and Momo's on Wano. I'd bet that Shirahoshi will be able to speak in the same way.
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One of the FT shadows had its eyes (?) near the sea surface, that would be weird for an elephant.
Myself and Robby have addressed this in the past.
In fact, iirc I think Robby even made visuals for it.
The explanation is, it's a clever use of perspective. Yes, we see a sliver of ocean, but that sliver could be miles and miles away from the previous establishing shot.
Essentially, the further you are, that sliver of ocean, if viewed from a low close-up perspective, would realistically make an extraordinarily tall object look 'close' to the surface. It's exactly the kind of stunt Oda would pull to make something look one way, but actually be another, safely guarding the truth in plain sight all these years.
As for Shirahoshi, I don't think so. If anything, I think this means Momo is Uranus, or the Momo/Zou combo is Uranus. Depends how he wants to frame it. Of course, if Zunisha is considered a sea king of sorts, well, that changes that entirely!
Therefore our ancient weapons would be two people and an actual ship.
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@Johnny:
I would imagine they just go through the Calm Belt, no?
Going through the Calm Belt doesn't across the Red Line, which what people are wondering about?
As far as why they eyes are so low. Maybe the creature just hunched down? We specifically just see eyes on the one isolated shadow, not on any of those three shadows next to each other.
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Have we ruled out big elephant shaped hole in the wall yet?
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Going through the Calm Belt doesn't across the Red Line, which what people are wondering about?
Well, I mean, wouldn't it be easier to just go through the Calm Belt instead of climbing the Red Line? I would imagine since they are so massive, even Sea Kings would think twice about attacking them.
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Would you cross a shallow river knowing there's a bunch of bloodthirsty piranhas in it?
It may just be how it would look like.
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@Johnny:
Well, I mean, wouldn't it be easier to just go through the Calm Belt instead of climbing the Red Line? I would imagine since they are so massive, even Sea Kings would think twice about attacking them.
The Red Line completely bisects the world, you cannot move between the New World and Paradise without crossing the Red Line, whether you cross the Calm Belt(s) or not.
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This post is deleted!
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@Johnny:
Well, I mean, wouldn't it be easier to just go through the Calm Belt instead of climbing the Red Line? I would imagine since they are so massive, even Sea Kings would think twice about attacking them.
What I was trying to tell you is that crossing the Calm Belt and crossing the Red Line does not take you to the same place. If you cross the Calm Belt from the Paradise section of the Grand Line, you end up euther in East Blue or South Blue. If you cross the Red Line you end up in the New World section of the Grand Line, from wich crossing the Calm Belt would take you to either North Blue or West Blue.
Zunisha is in the New World, the Florian Triangle is in Paradise. Crossing the Calm Belt doesn't enable you to get from one place to the other.
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Ivotas, just curious, have you seen Zou's first appearance lined up with the shadows? It's almost exactly the same even accounting the effect of the fog on the legs according to depth.
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Yep, I'm familiar with it.^^