I love everything about Nami and Zeus, their interactions are great and Nami getting such a huge power-up is really exciting.
Chapter 1,016: It's Me, Otama!!
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I love everything about Nami and Zeus, their interactions are great and Nami getting such a huge power-up is really exciting.
I also liked how Zeus can turn into physical weapons too like a mace.
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Did the blast mostly hit Ulti’s cape?
[qimg]https://i.ibb.co/QrQvpwM/BDCAD6-E5-A722-4-BD6-B624-835-DC02-F69-EC.jpg[/qimg]
Yeah, Oda played with perspective to make the hit look worse than it actually was.
Kinda like how at Marineford he made Mihawk and Hancock look huge by putting them in the foreground and a smaller marine between them and the other warlords.
Or how Ceaser stabbed the cube holding Monet's heart from an angle that made it look dead on, but he basically missed.
The camera shot was the only angle where it would look super bad but it was actually a grazing hit.
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I'm thinking its staring to look unlikely that Yamato would have a SH's only cover any soon.
We're currently witnessing the chapters of volume 101, then volumes 102 and 103 would likely portray dramatic situations with Kaido, Luffy and all the characters desperately fighting for their freedom(Kinemon, Tama, Momo, Hyogoro, Yamato), but hardly dedicated to the SH's only.
So I'm thinking, if the arc is still going by 104, then the perfect moment would be volume 105.
We've had full crew covers depicting them "celebrating" their victory, recruitment or reunions, and they sure would have a lot to celebrate at the end of wano+ the context of Jinbro's toast AND Yamato's toast also hinted in chapters 999/1000.
Could very well happen in vol 104, but would depend in Oda rushing things out.
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Ulti being defeated as part of Zeus' arc instead of being Nami's main fight reignites my hopes that Nami will end up fighting Galette. Well, with this upgrade, I wouldn't mind if Nami fought Galette, Amande and Compotte all at once.
Yes, the Big Mom Pirates will appear. I'll only stop thinking that once we move to the final Yonko fights.
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This chapter steps on the brakes a little compared to the last two. It figures we couldn't keep up that kind of pacing forever, but it still obviously feels like a step back. On the other hand, the official end of a main one on one fight is a big signal that the end is close for Wano, and there'll probably be more big leaps forward like it in the coming weeks.
Also hey, I made a few good guesses last week:My best guess for the how of Zeus's fusion is that Hera ate his cloud body, but the bit of Big Mom soul animating him leapt into the Clima Tact instead. It's a new Homie with all the memories of the old one. There's probably no way for Nami to summon him out of it in cloud form like she did before though, now that that body is 100% gone. But I don't see it changing too much of his abilities. We saw him and Prometheus change the weather to a full-on storm with rain and strong wind back on Whole Cake Island, so he was at least partly an all-purpose weather hack already, despite the focus on lightning.
I was off the mark on Nami not being able to summon him in cloud form, and I don't think anyone expected the shapeshifting aspect, but otherwise, the talk of being reborn and not being able to leave voluntarily sure sound like a new Homie's been made out of the tact to me.
I also said
Although, the chapter does raise the question of why [Tama] isn't doing what Momo does and grabbing a Mary. How does her power work over radio waves or magic devil fruit comms?
Which turns out to be exactly what she does. Nice!
I've also been on team Ulti gets back up for weeks now, but that one isn't worth patting myself on the back over.
The opening scene with Toko and Hitetsu is very sweet, but it also has two interesting details. The first is the clear skies over the capital, showing the full moon. Could we be in for a Sulong second wind in the final stages of Onigashima's journey? Second is the bonfire built big enough to be visible from the heavans. I will be shocked if there isn't a big moment where someone spots its light from the flying island a few chapters from now. Or if we don't have Luffy and Momo using it as a beacon to get to the capitol on their return flight or something like that.CP0's battle updates are always welcome. Remember that there are only around 500 Gifters, so Tama's broadcast isn't going to flip a massive number of combatants. I think it's more likely we're going to see exactly how many normal soldiers a Gifter can be worth instead.
I'm surprised Bao Huang is so sure Momo and Shinobu are dead. Maybe I need to reread the fine details of what Shinobu was up to for 20 years, but she's a known quanity to the Beasts Pirates, right? They know she can do this, don't they?I had no fear for either of them when they fell last week because aside from the plot armour angle, jumping off the island was a really logical and safe thing for Shinobu to do with her skillset.
I like the attention to detail in Ulti's cloak consistently having a big visible hole where Big Mom's attack went out the back. A lesser author might have forgotten to do more than just burning her top and skirt to show a tasteful amount of midriff and thigh, but Oda's not just a perv.
I also enjoy Zues amping up Nami's physical capabilities a level. Like, you couldn't even say the extending trick shown off on Zou has been underutilised because that would imply it's been utilised at all. Zeus could save it from being written off as wasted potential if Oda keeps using him like this. He legitimately brings a lot to the table as a powerup, including being a whole other character to interact with, and I'm glad she'd got him.
His rejection of the new name is a great gag, and I like him helping Nami with the targeting. It makes sense that electricity would arc to its target, right?
And that's about where my praise for Nami VS Ulti ends. It's definitely on the weaker end of both Nami and the series' major clashes. I don't even know if so much of the early stage being offscreen is the issue, like so many others have said. A few more pages of Nami getting physically overwhelmed before she made her big Luffy declaration two dozen chapters ago wouldn't have changed the issues the later stage of the fight has.
Ulti could almost be seen as one of those Resident Evil enemies that shrugs off you attacks and pursues you while you try to solve puzzles and do other stuff, and at the end of the game you finally get access to a souped up rail gun or rocket launcher and get your revenge for the trouble they gave you. Nami is mostly focused on avoiding Ulti and solving the Gifter issue for the whole fight and is rewarded with the extra firepower she needs at the end. But unfortunately, what makes for a satisfying turnaround in a game doesn't land the same way in a manga.
This chapter alone, the scene with the finishing blow, works fine in isolation. But trying to take all the Nami/Ulti scenes up to this point and visualise them as a full sequence, it just doesn't work. The dialogue implies that the main cause of Ulti's defeat was the two big blasts from Big Mom and Nami, rather than the culmination of all the hits she's taken so far (and there've been a lot of them). There's very little sense of give and take in the fight, no push and pull, no calls and responses in the choreography. None of that good stuff that makes a compelling fight. But because Nami was always running and staying one step ahead instead of being backed into a corner, there isn't enough of a desperate atmosphere to make an turnabout from the underdog work either.
Whatever the reason, it just feels like there's something missing from this fight, necessary though it was for it to happen. And Ulti's still a highlight of Kaido's crew, despite the slightly anticlimactic end.
I'm hoping for a better showing from the rest of the crew's fights. Most of the Strawhats are standing their ground instead of running from their opponents anyway, so there's more to build a fight out of with those anyway.
Does Bao Huang confirm that Page One is down for good as well? I guess no round two for Usopp, which is a shame. Page One staying down probably says something about something. Maybe its just his lower endurance or taking more hits from Usopp and Nami compared to Ulti. Maybe it's the power of Big Mom's CoC coating against an opponent who can't respond in kind.But there has to be something more for Usopp. Catching Bao Huang isn't big enough to be his scene for the arc, and it isn't presented like the climax of his story here.
It feels odd not to show Tama actually giving her order and the immediate results of it, especially with the chapter named after her. Is it not there because the chapter's only 15 pages, or is the chapter 15 pages because Oda couldn't fit what he wanted to do in just two more?I like that we get a bit more of Kaido's dragon form. It always makes for such good looking panels. We also have the clearest signpost yet that Yamato is leaving Wano with the crew. I don't know if I'm totally on board with him in the main cast yet, but I've made my peace with it seeming inevitable, and we'll cross that bridge after it's fully confirmed I guess.
We've known for a while that Wano is special in the grand scheme of things. Something about the country is vital to Joyboy's will and the much-alluded to Dawn. It's been implied it was open to the world in the past. It may even have been an active trade partner to other ancient nations, if there's anything to be read into about its reputation as a "country of gold" and the large amounts of gold found in Shandia without them any obvious mines or smelting ability. Kaido saying he chose Wano because it's special somehow is just a reminder of the kinds of potentially huge revelations waiting in the aftermath of the battle.
It was a short chapter, which is always a shame before a break, but the end of a major fight always gives a decent bit to reflect on. See you all in a couple of weeks for maybe another fight conclusion, if Oda wants to use volume 101 to push Onigashima into its endgame.
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One step closer to big axe wielding Nami
Didn't "this fight" start with Usopp attacking Page One; hiding behind Nami, then proceeding to run away from them? I'm not sure Oda ruined anything more so than people having unreasonable expectations.
Yeah this idea that Ulti and Paypay deserved better fights is just weird fan projection.
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Ok so, this chapter pretty much confirms that this is the point where the Beast Pirate's fall becomes inevitable.
I'm still confident Apoo, Hawkins and Fukurokuju will follow, either after or before the flashback hits, eveyone else will be defeated before reaching the Capital.
I can actually see the both of them running away.
Apoo cuz thats just his nature when overwhelmed and Hawkins cuz the fates change or w/e with the cards and he just withdraws.
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@Zik:
Yes, Oda has disappointed me there. Specifically after introducing Smoker's seasons tipped jutte.
Seastone is a super strong material. Probably second only to poneglyphs material and equal to steel if not better and no swordsman has decided to make it in to a sword.
Because there are no seastone craftsmen good enough outside of Wano. It was established already during this arc
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Ok so, this chapter pretty much confirms that this is the point where the Beast Pirate's fall becomes inevitable.
I'm still confident Apoo, Hawkins and Fukurokuju will follow, either after or before the flashback hits, eveyone else will be defeated before reaching the Capital.
I'm hyping myself with the possibility that the 9 Shadows moment occurs right in the Capital, and with Tenguyama present there, he could be the one repeating Toki's prophesy insteaf of the narrator, while all the citizens wittness it.
Its possible that most fighters will be out of comission by then, Zoro almost reaches that point for example.
9 Shadows will be the last men standing.
Who do you think the 9 shadows will be?
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showing the full moon. Could we be in for a Sulong second wind in the final stages of Onigashima's journey?
If they keep losing 3,000 soldiers every 10 chapters, there will be no need of Sulong by the time they reach the Capital.
Its more than likely that all battles, from randoms to Calamities will be won already, it'll be just Kaido threathening the citizens with dropping Onigashima over
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--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Who do you think the 9 shadows will be?
A very random group.
Doing a wild guess out of the blue I'd say;
Usopp
Nami(cause this two are still at full strenght, thanks to Big Mom)
Yamato(coming back for his second round), and also to prove to Wano that he has nothing to do with his father's crimes)
Marco, cause phaesant Momotaro stuff
Jinbro, who could end up not wasted enough from his versus with WW, and haven't had a chance to face off against Kaido yet
Diez Drake, as the biggest traitor in Kaido's side.
Law
Kidd(cause I still believe Big Mom is not going to be defeated, something else would happen to her)
Carrot(Mink presence, and prolly her last chance to shine)Luffy is optional, cause he could be charging Haki(again) I believe there's going to be three rounds(Luffy v Kaido) and we're currently waiting for the second. And Luffy wants to fight Kaido alone anyways.
The 9 Shadows would be giving the last stand defending the citizens in the Capital, until Luffy recharges haki again.
It'll be a randon group like the 4 survivors of Enel's Game, and it'll feel like the SH's fighting Oars until Luffy appeared.
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I know i'm just opening up myself for ridicule here, but this chapter honestly makes me question what OP will be like going forward.
Here? Of all places?
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Said my thoughts on the chapter many times in the spoiler thread, the Ulti stuff would've been good but Big Mom interfered in a big way, Pageone is just a huge nope. Nami's powerup is awesome and inventive, as if her weapon ate a Devil Fruit, so that helps things a lot. This fight would just be infinitely better if Big Mom never interfered, and somehow Pageone gets put to sleep or distracted until the Ulti fight is finished. And then you never injure Ulti besides from Usopp/Nami.
Certainly not a chapter that "sucks all the tension out of the arc", that makes no sense since Kiku and Kin'emon died a chapter ago (unless you believe they'll be revived), but yeah, certainly sloppy. -
If they keep losing 3,000 soldiers every 10 chapters, there will be no need of Sulong by the time they reach the Capital.
Its more than likely that all battles, from randoms to Calamities will be won already, it'll be just Kaido threathening the citizens with dropping Onigashima over
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It'd probably be overkill for the main battle, but it might be a good way for an injured Cat or Dog to get that final hit in against Jack or Pero. Certainly doesn't have to happen (the full moon could be there for the symbolism and prophecy references, or Oda might just have liked it aesthetically for that scene) but definitely worth keeping in mind that it's an option.
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I just don't understand why Oda would rob Nami and Usopp of a clean victory like this. Why would he do that? Even if he wants to clearly keep them the weakest Straw Hats, Ulti and Paypay would have been absolutely in their ballpark for a desperate encounter, with still more than enough room to grow between now and their Blackbeard opponents (who will be all Impel Down 6 quality, if not now then by the time the crew encounters them).
Now they'll be leaving this arc as the weaklings who needed an Emperor to do 90% of the job for them.
Like, I just don't get why it was so important to make that point, that no, they're absolutely not ready to combat even the weakest commanders of an Emperor's crew. Not even with their own bag of dirty tricks. I don't understand why Oda wouldn't want to have fun with such a scenario, a scenario he himself teased when Nami & Usopp taunted them away from the main stage.Which honestly makes me consider that this will be the way for everyone else as well. They fight their designated opponents, but it won't come to a conclusion for various reasons. What if this is not the arc where they take down Yonkou commanders, but just the arc where they prove that they can at least keep them occupied? Either because they are…
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...too weak to finish them themselves (Nami / Usopp / Chopper)
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...strong enough, but also lacking the stamina to keep up for hours (Franky, Robin, Brook)
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...technically strong enough to properly beat their opponents, but it would take the usual one or two days because their enemies play in a similiar ballpark (Sanji, Jinbe)
While Zoro will get up for one final wankattack later, probably doing a Gold Roger CoC Divine Departure sword move to oneshot all the remaining Numbers or what.
And while everyone is busy not really winning their fights, Luffy beats Kaido and thus shatters the resolve of the Beast Pirates (reverse scenario, just that virtually everyone will abandon Kaido because they had no real attachement to begin with. Except for Jacku. Jacku will stay and carry a beaten Kaido into the sunset. Just those two.)
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They fight their designated opponents, but it won't come to a conclusion for various reasons. What if this is not the arc where they take down Yonkou commanders, but just the arc where they prove that they can at least keep them occupied? Either because they are…
That's fine for a midpoint and "we still have room to grow" perpective, and given that we still have giant/admirals/blackbeards to go, they can't be at the tip top of their games just yet… and the beast pirates are at the top.... but that would be pretty unsatisfying overall.
Oda's never done an arc before where Luffy beats the big bad first though, so he might be willing to do it just once to shake up expectations... as long as everyone gets good solid wins after that... but I can only imagine that leading to a fishman island scenario where the whole crew gets big impact pages one after another rather than anything individually satisfying.
And if he was going the morale broken simultaneous win route then why have 2/6 of them down already? Why not show off all the other fights more in depth first? Its just weird pacing all around.
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It seems to me that Oda has given priority to severing the link between Zeus/Tama and Big Mum in a logical way at the expense of Nami and Usopp fight.
It's really disapointing and I wish he could have found a way to do both.My wish is that the 2 will now help Law and Kid fighting Big Mum but I prefer not be too hopeful anymore
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The way Oda decided to resolve the Nami and Ulti does have me worried that that conclusions for the other fights may end in similar fashion. Which would be very unsatisfying in a lot of ways. .
Let's hope it doesn't go that route
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I just imagine what if this wasn't a singular lapse in judgement? What if this is how it'll be from here on out? And if i personally will be able to draw the same entertainment i used to from a story where the mains i used to love get relegated more and more to the sidelines while their feats and moments get divided to whatever side character happens to be around atm.
The concern is shared. I can live with Straw Hats getting less screentime if the secondary characters are interesting (they usually are) and the mains' performance is still noteworthy. However, the Namisopp fight is nowhere near that and, thinking back about it, it's been ages since anyone outside the monster trio had a truly jaw-dropping moment. The first that comes to my mind is Usopp sniping Sugar, but after that I'm under the impression many fights were either guest-starred by other characters or not all that interesting. From Robin spectating the Diamante battle to fishmen and Vinsmokes taking the spotlight in WCI, or Chopper vs Brulee ; off-panel Sanji vs PageOne. And now this. The next Strawhat fights will set the tone I guess, so I'm waiting for them with a mix of dread and excitment.
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haki for all! jk. Regarding Nami/Ussop not given fights. I don't expect them to be their top form yet, since we still have several arcs to go. BUT when you have luffy and zoro doing the shit they can do, the differences make the lack of growth for the other SHs more glaring.
Just re-read the arc and honestly Big Mom pirates felt more of a threat. Like half of her children have bounties and she has officers that rival the headliners. The commanders feel more of a threat at least initially than the All-stars. And there's 3-5 of her children that can rival the Tobiroppo easily. Queen is a joke at this point. And Jack is a punching bag even if he's a threat.
The concern is shared. I can live with Straw Hats getting less screentime if the secondary characters are interesting (they usually are) and the mains' performance is still noteworthy. However, the Namisopp fight is nowhere near that and, thinking back about it, it's been ages since anyone outside the monster trio had a truly jaw-dropping moment. The first that comes to my mind is Usopp sniping Sugar, but after that I'm under the impression many fights were either guest-starred by other characters or not all that interesting. From Robin spectating the Diamante battle to fishmen and Vinsmokes taking the spotlight in WCI, or Chopper vs Brulee ; off-panel Sanji vs PageOne. And now this. The next Strawhat fights will set the tone I guess, so I'm waiting for them with a mix of dread and excitment.
Yeah when has the SHs gotten big moments except something that looks good, sound "loud" but end up getting them squashed? Brook had that great double spread….but he got his ass kicked. I mean sure he ended up getting the red road poneglyph but not growth there. Oda could've still give him a power up this arc after his encounter with big mom's soru soru no mi and learn to better utilize yomi yomi no mi for example. Regarding secondary character, the red scabbards were good...but they feel forgotten already in the story.
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Honestly the Nami fight wouldn't have been so bad (for me at least) if getting Ulti beaten up by someone else had been the plan all along and not just something that happened.
For example, Nami tries fighting, doesn't work and she just about manages to escape, realises she needs help, spots Big Mom fighting Kidd, baits Ulti to launch herself at her, goes through a fake, through a wall and right into Big Moms ample backside. A dazed Ulti then gets pummelled by both Mom and Kidd for interrupting their fight and down she goes, with Nami claiming it as her victory.
You could even have a battered Ulti pop up again looking for revenge, with Nami (powered up or not) now capable of handling it herself.It's basically what happened originally, but like I said, to me everybody would have come off looking a bit better.
(Ussop could then get a fight with Page One, where he uses traps and long range sniping to eventually blast Page One off of the island 'Early Series Luffy' style, this leads into a Cover Story where Ulti has a series of wacky adventures searching for her Pay Pay).
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I see people referring to Zeus as a "Power Up" for Nami, and it just doesn't feel right. He's a really strong companion that helps Nami out, not any extension of Namis skills, knowledge or strategizing. It feels pretty damning for Namis involvement in this fight that it could play out in an identical fashion regardless of her having the Zeus-tact or not, as long as Zeus was in the vicinity. Nami attacks Ulti, she dodges, Zeus follows and hits her.
With the most RPG-minded approach you can classify this as a "power up" for Nami because she acquires a familiar with high stats and special attributes, but in actuality Namis own involvement in Ultis defeat is very minimal.
And fuck, its even more depressing when you look at the whole picture of this ""fight""
- After the big "Straw Hats are here to kick ass and take names!!" spread leads into setting up Ulti+Pageone vs Nami + Usopp, this IMMEDIATELY cuts to Nami and Usopp decimated offscreen, their personal efforts having failed. Despite Usopp arguing she should save her own skin, Nami stands up to Ulti on principle…and gets saved at the last second by an elementary schooler and her big dog.
- When they are unable to shake the big lumbering dino-bros due to failure of their personal efforts, Nami and Usopp are saved from Pageone by a conveniently appearing Big Mom.
- Despite Usopp arguing she should save her own skin, Nami stands up to Ulti on principle...again... and we cut to her best efforts IMMEDIATELY failing, and her being saved at the last second by Big Mom. Again.
- And now, despite Nami trying her best effort to take down a seriously damaged base-form Ulti, she fails yet again and the opponent is finally drained of the last of her HP by an independently acting Zeus.
(And before all that, Nami also had to be saved at the last second by a conveniently arriving Franky.)
Its Rebecca all over again. Regardless of "oh they're outgunned/its a poor matchup" or whatever, the thing that rankles is that these characters, Nami in particular, keep trying their damndest, and keep failing, again and again and again. Its so unfulfilling.
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There is just too much wrong with current One Piece. Nami being no exception.
Besides, what exactly was the point of Nami's "Luffy becomes Pirate King" declaration some chapters ago? Was it supposed to be emotional? Because, no, it doesn't work. It had no lasting impact or meaningful consequences nor did anyone react to it in any meaningful way. Instead it just felt like an item on Oda's To-Do-List which can get checked off, too.
Unless I'm supposed to root for the Beast Pirates because that's what I'm doing these days. Because I like rooting for the underdog.
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@Daz:
I see people referring to Zeus as a "Power Up" for Nami, and it just doesn't feel right. He's a really strong companion that helps Nami out, not any extension of Namis skills, knowledge or strategizing. It feels pretty damning for Namis involvement in this fight that it could play out in an identical fashion regardless of her having the Zeus-tact or not, as long as Zeus was in the vicinity. Nami attacks Ulti, she dodges, Zeus follows and hits her.
With the most RPG-minded approach you can classify this as a "power up" for Nami because she acquires a familiar with high stats and special attributes, but in actuality Namis own involvement in Ultis defeat is very minimal.
This isn't correct, at least as far as I understand it. Even when Zeus was a pure cloud homie under Nami's command, he was nothing without her knowledge about weather and specifically the skills she trained 2 years for (esp. weather egg). And Oda made sure that this fact is always highlighted, he even wasted entire panels on Nami conjuring weather balls before going to town with Zeus.
So the homies can be powered up in two ways:
1. They consume their element
2. They're directly powered through Big Mom pumping her soulpower into them
Option two is obviously out of the window now, which means Zeus can only ever be powered up by consuming nearby thunder. Zeus, without Nami fueling him with her lightning moves, is practically worthless unless the natural weather happens to be an ongoing thunderstorm.
Zeus can do nothing on his own, he just gives Nami's abilities life. He is literally an extension of her abilities! It's like Usopp's relationship with his plants, just in reverse:
Usopp is responsible for the Pop Greens to hit the target, while the growing plant does the heavy lifting. Zeus, on the other hand, makes sure that Nami's attacks connect (or form in a certain way in the first place), but Nami is still doing the heavy lifting.
And as for strategic use in future battles? Well, I would say lets wait and see, because she has that feature for a few minutes now.
I think it's a fitting upgrade for her and I don't think she's being carried by something she didn't work for. She's a weather-witch and a (soul-)thief, and Zeus is her familiar, like you say.
The other stuff you posted… uff. It's even harder to swallow when you look at it chronologically. I really don't understand this at all. Like it's so underwhelming it must be intentional. Like the rick roll is waiting around the corner.
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I'm also disappointed for Nami and Usopp but at the same time I realize that Ulti/Page 1 aren't that far below the enemies they will likely face at the end of the series. Emperor veteran level fighters competing to become commander. If the two weakest crewmembers were able to deal with these type of fighters right now it would be difficult to create tension for the final battle without going full power creep.
Frustration is normal but having Nami being carried through against an opponent at Ulti level despite all her determination will end up being the better choice long term.
On the positive I really like the Zeus Tact and the possibilites it offers, this chapter Nami was mostly a spectator but I believe it was to showcase the abilities. In the next fights Nami will be more control. It's not like Zeus can attack by itself, Nami needs to "summon" him and launch the moves herself. As Zeus said, he's here to assist.
I'm not as negative as I could have been because I believe the two weaklings role isn't over yet. (Although Oda wil likely take a little break from them to show the adult trio and Jinbe first)So, I just saw this on twitter: "Nami's habit of giving silly uninspired names is such an unappreciated trait of hers" - and now I'm like…wait, Nami has a habit of giving uninspired names to things or people?
Is anyone taking notes of said moments? Now I'm genuinely curious.
What's coming in my mind right now :
Eyelashes (Alabasta Camel)
Scissors (Alabasta crab)
Long Nose (Sogeking/Usopp in W7/EL)
Cape (How she would have named Raid Suit Sanji, SBS 94)
Cotton/Fluff (Zeus this chapter) -
Because there are no seastone craftsmen good enough outside of Wano. It was established already during this arc
Well even then, you know how these stories go. There was that one stonemason/craftsmen that left Wano and actually forged a sword out of seastone or that one foreigner that came to Wano with seastone and went to the best swordsmith (Kitetsu or Hitetsu) and got a sword made of it.
That aside I'm surprised Vegapunk with all of his future tech that provides the marines with all sorts of seastone weapons hasn't come up with the simple assembly line like process to make a sword with a bunch of machines.
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I empathize with a lot of the complaints about the anticlimactic nature of this chapter. I'm similiarly disappointed with how Namis and Ultis fight turned out, tho not by Ulti's portrayal throughout - she has been a huge badass. If the other Flying Six will be able to tank this much damage, then damn, this will be a tough battle.
Despite my disappointment, I'm not quite as disheartened as some. I regard this more as a singular misstep. The depiction of the Strawhats during the raid has been overall good, after all. Most of the Strawhats have had a fair amount of screentime and Robin and Chopper in particular had some of their best moments in years, while Sanji had one of his most badass ones last chapter. So for now, I don't think there is that much cause for concern about how Oda will depict the weaker Strawhats in the future. If all of the fights turn out similarly disappointing, then I'm with you.
I feel like people are also mixing together two different types of complaints, one which is valid and one which is not. One complaint is that the Strawhats not named Luffy or Zorro don't get much screentime, and I feel thats kinda unfair, because Oda has given a lot of focus to Nami and Usopp in recent chapters, and in particular to building up Zeus becoming a permanent power-up for Nami. So the problem is not that Oda isn't focusing on the other Strawhats - which makes the complaint that he is pushing them aside to focus on cool, new side characters invalid - but rather that most of us aren't satisfied with the content of their scenes, which is an entirely different matter.
And that's a complaint that seems a lot more valid to me, that Oda is sort of undermining the feats of the weaker Strawhats for some reason. And that's the thing, I can't discern why exactly he is doing that. Is he just trying to illustrate that some of the Strawhats really need a power-up to take on these enemies? Because that would be reasonable and not a case of bad writing imo. Like, I can understand why he portrays Nami not standing a chance against Ulti in general if this is meant to convey the importance of her getting Zeus as a power-up. But then why not have her defeat Ulti at full health to make the victory more impressive and badass? It's just…weird and rather unlike Oda to write such an anticlimax to a fight.
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What are the shots that all 11 SHs have CoC. Roger's crew and rocks had 5-6, if luffy's crew will be the best all time, he needs to have more.
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Agree with all criticisms regarding Nami's fight.
Seems like One Piece is still a manga about fights and cool superpowers, but it isn't so much a manga about the strawhats. This fight represented no growth or character building for Nami or Usopp, so it felt unsatisfying.
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My biggest problem with current OP is that it completely lacks a proper central theme. Instead all of the emotional foundation is hidden behind some vague prophecy stuff.
So the story is about opening Wano's borders? But why? Is there any actual given reason - aside from the prophesy and the upcoming Dawn? Did we witness a single situation in which we were actually shown some concrete misery where the main source of problem is the shut down borders?
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@uniaka:
What are the shots that all 11 SHs have CoC. Roger's crew and rocks had 5-6, if luffy's crew will be the best all time, he needs to have more.
I think Rocks was a cautionary tale that you cannot have many conquerors on one boat.
Plus they really don't need it since none of the others have ambitions that involve being better than other people at something.
Only Luffy and Zoro have that and that's why they've developed an ability that lets them suppress the Will of other people.
Nami, Franky, Brook, Robin, Chopper and Jinbei(what is his dream btw) don't have to knock people out to accomplish their goals. Luffy and Zoro kind of do.
Ussop, though, has a very strong chance of having it. It would be the physical embodiment of him finally achieving that arbitrary title of Brave warrior of the sea.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
My biggest problem with current OP is that it completely lacks a proper central theme. Instead all of the emotional foundation is hidden behind some vague prophecy stuff.
So the story is about opening Wano's borders? But why? Is there any actual given reason - aside from the prophesy and the upcoming Dawn? Did we witness a single situation in which we were actually shown some concrete misery where the main source of problem is the shut down borders?
Umm..yes. We have.
If Wano wasn't closed off, the marines could have probably done something to liberate Wano(at least in the eyes of Wano Citizens.).
Remember one of the main reasons the marines don't interfere in Wano, is because they perceive it as a country made up of strong samurai warriors. They probably think Wano is Sparta or something.
However, because of closed borders, no one knows 90% of the population is starving and half-dead.
We also know that the Revolutionary army did not interfere because of the same reasons.
All of Odin's powerful friends did not interfere, because of the same reasons.
Wano could have received help along time ago but their isolationism led to 20 years of hell.
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But the core problem of Wano's suffering isn't the border issue. It's because it's ruled by shitty people - Kaido and Orochi. Besides, the border issue goes for centuries, but the people weren't starving and half-dead for centuries, too, were they?
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To rephrase my question: What exactly prevented Oden's father and his ancestors to just open the borders? Is there any comprehensible reason which is not gated by the prophecy?
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But the core problem of Wano's suffering isn't the border issue. It's because it's ruled by shitty people - Kaido and Orochi. Besides, the border issue goes for centuries, but the people weren't starving and half-dead for centuries, too, were they?
No they were not.
But its that previous trend of isolationism that left them vulnerable to what is happening now.
If Wano was not an isolated country, it could have 100% been able to join the World Government and benefit from it.
If it went the Alabasta Kingdom way, it would have been able to form strong alliances and create something as solid as the Kinokuni kingdom, which has a navy that equals the military might of the marines.
Its a not great analogy, but compare it to climate change. Sure when people were fucking the environment up, there really weren't any immediate consequences, but in time those consequences are beginning to image and at one point in time it will be a fact and not an inevitability.
The current generation of Wano is suffering from the isolationist ethos of their ancestors.
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To rephrase my question: What exactly prevented Oden's father and his ancestors to just open the borders? Is there any comprehensible reason which is not gated by the prophecy?
It has to be political and rooted in tradition and less to do with any kind of prophecy.
In my headcannon: The Kozuki's chose to close Wano up because they did not want the World Government(or anyone else) to exploit their vast supply of Seastone. Acquiring Wano and doing that would be similar to gaining an Ancient Weapon(you effectively render DF advantages null and void), so the ancient Kozukis chose to hide away because they could not destroy it.(Basically, Wano is the Wakanda of One Piece).
Unfortunately it can also be something as lame as a promise to Joyboy or something.
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And that's exactly my problem. You have to come up with headcanon because the story just doesn't provide anything of substance.
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Nah, the story will explain it and it will make sense.
This particular country has a significant role in the story. Expect that Oda won't just brush it away with something like prophecy.
He's avoided prophecy for nearly 800+chapters. Believe that he is not suddenly turning into Kishimoto and making his story centered on prophecies and repeating cycles.
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I'm with Artemis here, the whole "open Wanos Borders!" plotline is extremely undercooked, and guts the arc of much of its potential pathos. The idea is operating on "just trust me, its real important, for some reason, it'll be explained later", but it leaves us without a clear grounding for Odens goals and motivation- because explaining it would be a spoiler - and also means that all the scabbards working to enact Odens will have no real idea why they're doing it, beyond "Oden wanted it so it must be important I guess"
There has never been established a throughline from "closed borders–>current Kaidou misery", when Oden makes a dying speech about how much he wants to open Wanos borders there is zero sense that this is meaningful or desirable for the Wanoese, whos current predicament is not so much a result of closed borders as it is a despot gaining the throne through magic trickery and gradually letting outsider agents in to occupy the nation.
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The next Strawhat fights will set the tone I guess, so I'm waiting for them with a mix of dread and excitment.
You sort of have to hold up hope that he won't screw over Robin too
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However, the problem is this lack of clear goals and motivations for the protagonist side basically affects every storytelling aspect in a fundamental way. Therefore absolutely everything feels completely disjointed. None of the dozens of subplots are intervowen in a good and meaningful way - because the basic fundament of the story just is completely missing.
Therefore, the Nami subplot is one of the many casualties of the poorly established leitmotif of the Wano arc. Resulting in this complete mess lacking any meaningful tension and stakes.
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I'm also disappointed for Nami and Usopp but at the same time I realize that Ulti/Page 1 aren't that far below the enemies they will likely face at the end of the series. Emperor veteran level fighters competing to become commander. If the two weakest crewmembers were able to deal with these type of fighters right now it would be difficult to create tension for the final battle without going full power creep.
Frustration is normal but having Nami being carried through against an opponent at Ulti level despite all her determination will end up being the better choice long term.Nami was able to defeat the second number in Baroque works with a weapon which most features were party tricks. In the end it is rather if Oda wants it or not.
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He's avoided prophecy for nearly 800+chapters. Believe that he is not suddenly turning into Kishimoto and making his story centered on prophecies and repeating cycles.
I don't know it rather seems to me like we have a lot of prophecies currently
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For me, this arc is just missing the weight of emotion and tension. There's been quite a bit of instances where there's been skipped content that once you it adds up, the arc becomes do disjointed … And that also affects my investment in the characters.
So I'm with Artemis and Daz. The meat and potatoes this arc should have just isn't there.
:sad:
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My biggest problem with current OP is that it completely lacks a proper central theme. Instead all of the emotional foundation is hidden behind some vague prophecy stuff.
So the story is about opening Wano's borders? But why? Is there any actual given reason - aside from the prophesy and the upcoming Dawn? Did we witness a single situation in which we were actually shown some concrete misery where the main source of problem is the shut down borders?
Opening the borders is the goal of the Scabbards and Momo because that was Oden's dying wish. Luffy and the Strawhats do not have the same goal. They want to help their friends country and defeat an Emperor. Momo explicitly tells Luffy he wants to defeat Kaido in chapter 819 and Luffy responds that he will defeat Kaido. That's it. The border issue is for the people of Wano to deal with.
I think chapter 918 is a microcosm of the whole arc. The Strawhats (Luffy and Zoro) team up with the rebels of Wano (Kiku). They topple the corrupt Wano elite ( Urashima) and the Beast Pirates (Holdem) and return food and prosperity to the oppressed citizens of Wano (bringing the treasure barge to Okobore).
Its like for Alabasta, Luffy wanted to fight a Warlord and help his friend Vivi. The Strawhats have spent weeks and some an entire month in Wano and want to liberate this country. Compare that to the afternoon they had in Alabasta before joining the Civil War.
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Just makes me remember that old man who kept digging his well. That was an emotional hook moment for me that made me fully invested in seeing Crocs ass beat.
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Just makes me remember that old man who kept digging his well. That was an emotional hook moment for me that made me fully invested in seeing Crocs ass beat.
Definitely. And Zoro has had multiple of those moments in Wano alone. He meets and fights alongside Kiku and she even bandages his left arm. Shows why he's enraged after seeing her severed left arm in the Live Floor. Then he meets Yasu and the people of Ebisu who give him water and kindness. He meets Hiyori and Toko and defends their lives. He even got so mad over Yasu's death he tried to kill Orochi.
Luffy was fed by Otama and learned about Ace's promise. He was trained by Hyogoro and inspired the prionsers of Udon.
And Sanji literally wore the physical reminder of his hated birth family and used the raid suit for the first time to defend the innocent townspeople from Page One.
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Just makes me remember that old man who kept digging his well. That was an emotional hook moment for me that made me fully invested in seeing Crocs ass beat.
As well as Arrow and the others that were laughed at by Crocodile in their desperation to save Alabasta, and reinforcing how cruel he was.
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I was under the impression that the arc's themes were fully apparent and the end goal pretty clearly laid out, so to hear that there's confusion over it has caught me off guard.
The central themes of the arc are the dangers of isolationism, the relationship that food/basic services have between people, and the way that people can be simultaneously inspired by and burdened by the past.
The people of the country are decades behind the rest of the world culturally and are deprived of new experiences as a direct result of their isolationism. That's pretty bad in One Piece, a story about how exploring the world and encountering new viewpoints is the only way to defeat the old ways of thinking that powerful tyrants use to keep the populace under their thumbs. One of the ways they do this is by controlling basic services that should be a human right but are instead monopolized and used as tools of manipulation. Oda's not been particular vague about this, considering that Wano has sacrificed its agriculture in order to devote most of the land to weapons manufacturing for the elite, which has led to famine and poisoned rivers. And it's thanks to that famine that Orochi was able to ship off those defective smile fruits to the poor in order to force them to constantly appear happy and keep up the image he wants for the country. Tama's whole deal is that she gave the last of her food to Luffy and literally having the power to shift the tides of the war by feeding her cheek dangos to the smile fruit users. The big hero of history is named Oden for god's sake.
And all of this stems from the fact that everyone's dealing with some version of the past in different ways. Oden was inspired to open Wano after learning of the past, Momo constantly feels the pressure of trying to measure up to his father, Kaido is obsessed with how certain figures will be perceived in history after they're gone, and his son Yamato now idolizes Oden and associates him with freedom. Toki who had a literal time traveling fruit and who plucked the scabbards out of the past and thrust them towards the future, and how those same scabbards struggle with how they never got to grieve after Oden's death which left them vulnerable to Kanjuro, and how this whole thing got kicked off because Orochi was manipulated into seeking revenge for the persecution of the Kurozumis, and finds himself obsessed with the idea that someday the scabbards will return and take revenge on him instead.
This all seemed like it was laid out pretty openly.
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I just don't understand why Oda would rob Nami and Usopp of a clean victory like this.
Probably the same reason Luffy isn't getting one.
This isn't a martial arts tournament or boxing match. Shit happens. Pirates don't fight fair. They're in a pretty crowded place in a big battle. It's the type of fight tailor made for interruptions, team-ups, and ppl jumping in.
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@Zik:
Probably the same reason Luffy isn't getting one.
This isn't a martial arts tournament or boxing match. Shit happens. Pirates don't fight fair. They're in a pretty crowded place in a big battle. It's the type of fight tailor made for interruptions, team-ups, and ppl jumping in.
Well Oda is definitely making that pretty apparent since Ulti has gone down about half a dozen times already. Hehe.
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–- Update From New Post Merge ---
To rephrase my question: What exactly prevented Oden's father and his ancestors to just open the borders? Is there any comprehensible reason which is not gated by the prophecy?
Nobody was leaving Wano, so apparently they didn’t have much news of the outside world. They just knew that their ancestors closed country for fear and f a great power. Oden was the only one, at least on his time, that wanted to go out and explore the world and even he couldn’t do it till Whitebeard got shipwrecked there. I think that kind of solves your issue.
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Nobody was leaving Wano, so apparently they didn’t have much news of the outside world. They just knew that their ancestors closed country for fear and f a great power. Oden was the only one, at least on his time, that wanted to go out and explore the world and even he couldn’t do it till Whitebeard got shipwreck there. I think that kind of solves your issue.
Yeah, it seems that no one really started to actively question why Wano got closed until Oden came along, and basically found out from Joy Boy and his connection to the Void Century as to why Wano got closed up in the first place, whatever the exact reason was.
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@Zik:
Probably the same reason Luffy isn't getting one.
Luffy will miss the final blow against Kaido and Momo will get him? :ninja:
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Well Oda is definitely making that pretty apparent since Ulti has gone down about half a dozen times already. Hehe.
Three times: In her dinosaur form against Yamato; her hybrid form against Big Mom's homies, and now in her human form against Zeus. 1 more left. :ninja:
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But the core problem of Wano's suffering isn't the border issue. It's because it's ruled by shitty people - Kaido and Orochi. Besides, the border issue goes for centuries, but the people weren't starving and half-dead for centuries, too, were they?
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To rephrase my question: What exactly prevented Oden's father and his ancestors to just open the borders? Is there any comprehensible reason which is not gated by the prophecy?
Wano houses secrets about the Void Century. If the World Government was to learn that in Wano, one could potentially learn how to read the ancient language, they'd invade Wano, at best, or outright extermination, at worst.
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@Johnny:
Wano houses secrets about the Void Century. If the World Government was to learn that in Wano, one could potentially learn how to read the ancient language, they'd invade Wano, at best, or outright extermination, at worst.
Yeah but like nobody knows that, Kin'emon seemed completely unaware of Poneglyph stones and Language.
That's Artemis's issue, why dont they just tell stuff, so they actually know what's going on.