What does what you country you live in have to do with ideals in an anime? Seems like a classic case of not having a strong case and adding as many irrelevent points to to put down the person you are arguing with. Ridiculous.
What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?
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What does what you country you live in have to do with ideals in an anime? Seems like a classic case of not having a strong case and adding as many irrelevent points to to put down the person you are arguing with. Ridiculous.
Ask MonkeyKing, I don't have a clue lol
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I think that all the sexism speeches lead to nowhere, while we should look at the simplicity of nature to avoid forever sexism issues.
What in the actual fuck.
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Don't act as if this was no issue at all, I'm sure it has been brought up enough times in this thread already. If you say you like how female proportions in the manga have developed, nobody is going to judge, but there are a lot of people, me included, that would love it if Oda returned to realistic proportions like he drew them in the beginning, ESPECIALLY Nami. This is not about being able to take someone seriously, this is about oversexualisation in a negative way. This is just Oda catering to a certain target group while completely ignoring the majority of people who loved the old way of him doing female bodies.
This is NOT about all those weirdo character designs we like Oda for. This is just about quadrupling the size of known character's boobs for the heck of it.Over-sexualiation is one issue.
Noted shitposter Saturnkid stating his issue with it is that he can't take big boobed women seriously? That's a misogyny all it's own. -
@Monkey:
Over-sexualiation is one issue.
Noted shitposter Saturnkid stating his issue with it is that he can't take big boobed women seriously? That's a misogyny all it's own.Did you guys ever thought about the incomes from the Japanese action figures market?
Did you guys thought about Japan market, since Japanese readers are the target of this manga, which is translated for other cultures but is tailored to Japan?
For example One Piece has Momotaro references, not Shakespearen references. -
But yeah, it's still Oda's take on 1700/1800
Boy is it ever NOT. Do you like know ANY history?
One Piece's world absolutely has no direct correlation to real life history in really any shape or form.
This isn't some alternate earth like Berserk has, with clear fantasy versions of Germany, France, Italian city-states, and a Indianized take on the Ottoman Empire.
This is a completely different world of zero resemblance to earth. There are no parallels to be drawn in virtually any way. Even the nature of the pirate era is completely unrelated to the real world equivalent.I dunno though, do you remember when in the 1700's a relatively late 20th century appearing world was under a single government and military? Yeah, phew, crazy times.
and every place screams about it, from the organization of society to common people employments mostly in farming and workmanship and the such.
Nothing screams it. What the hell series are you talking about lol. Farming and what now?? Have we EVER seen people farming aside from Bellmere?
One Piece has a globalized modern economy lollll, complete with mass produced name brand fashion lines, multiple ones.
Hell it's reeeallly obviously even post-industrial!
The only thing keeping it from being 20th Century is the vehicular technology! And even there the ships and whatnot are way beyond 1700's stuff!No, it covers subjectivity, and it's indeed fun hearing from you, the guy that tries to kill every argument that isn't objective.
ahahahaha, you've never gotten it, never all along. Objectivity? You really thought it was about that? You know nothing about what I do.
O___________O Touchè…I'm bleeding.
Sorry but democracy lessons from someone living in 'Murica are something to laugh about.Is a jab someone not from Italy could maybe make lol.
For godsakes, Bersculoni. Nuff said.
That's some borderline Eastern Europe shit with that guy. Except I think I'm insulting Eastern Europe!In third world Italy, we are not perfect but we don't try to give lessons to others and we don't export democracy with weapons while kids makes massacres in schools, and people enters Restricted Goverment areas to kill people.
Third world Italy, otherwise known as turn of the century Mezzogiorno, is where a good mass percentage of the people around me came from if only in part these days.
And we didn't fuck it up over here like the old country seems to be doing while still trying to say the south is the problem. May even land the presidency in three years.
Please, Europe is part of my life for a little while longer. The policies in the EU are kicking my fiance's country in the balls among other things. So I'm not some impartial outsider anymore, I'm gonna say when your shit stinks. Because it just might be tossed on her island.
What's more, that whole southern european greco-latin machismo bullshit is MOST FUCKING CERTAINLY a negative part of my female greco-latin southern european's life.
I seen how it is in her place, in Greece, and in Italy, hell even France. You damn right I'm bringing it up.
And don't think of me as some detached patrician redneck american either, I have roots directly in your soil my own self.
This is very much personal.A place where a president get shot, his supposed killer goes to jail, and when he gets out of jail he gets shot by someone entering the prison without being controlled.
So do you imagine that President Kennedy was in like the 90's or something lol? My dad wasn't even born when that happened XD
The difference is that people doesn't call Oda misoginist for a bad arc.
Yeah because that wouldn't make any sense?
And obviously Oda messes only with women and gays…
Why is it "messing with". No one's suggesting Oda is actively a bad dude doing bad things. They're just pointing out some very human flaws in his writing that we wish were better. Wish he were more exceptional about, rather than sadly typical.
No one gives a shit when Kishimoto is worthless in this regard (and boy is he ever), because no one RESPECTS that guy.
When Oda does something off, it's precisely because we respect him that we feel the need to point out when he lapses.
And he is most certainly an otherwise progressive dude! There's concepts of racial tension he captured (Jimbei's talking about how problematic it might be for Luffy to defeat Hody without it being framed right) that even average Americans, with all their constant exposure to racial discussion, would be clueless about.
Which is frankly AMAZING coming from a guy from one of the most homogenous countries on earth that never ever thinks about such issues!This thread exists entirely because of how much people love this series and like this author. You could even call it a fantasy intervention session.
I think few knows what sexism is, nor what a world without sexism would be like.
Rules to prevent sexism, that women asked in real world at the end of the day still discriminates between men and women.
You're smart enough to know that evolution is needed for survaivability of the species, which implies multiply the chance of mating in nature.
In most cases even animals evolve with visible features to be more appealing to mating partners.
In the real world the thing slightly changed to making money to be more appetizeable for mating, but that's not a nature rule, and it's doing it wrong.
I think that all the sexism speeches lead to nowhere, while we should look at the simplicity of nature to avoid forever sexism issues.whhhhat the fuckkk is this shitt
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What does what you country you live in have to do with ideals in an anime? Seems like a classic case of not having a strong case and adding as many irrelevent points to to put down the person you are arguing with. Ridiculous.
Oh I'm sorry are you another angry medd man? No fuck given.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Did you guys ever thought about the incomes from the Japanese action figures market?
Did you guys thought about Japan market, since Japanese readers are the target of this manga, which is translated for other cultures but is tailored to Japan?
For example One Piece has Momotaro references, not Shakespearen references.Ah yes, the exotic east! With their curious customs! Yellow man very fond of bad woman behaviour! I shall keep my noble western culture outside their savage alien ways. After all they don't know any better, those silly people.
Truly all cultures are stagnant and have always been as they are now. ignores literally everything
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Don't act as if this was no issue at all, I'm sure it has been brought up enough times in this thread already. If you say you like how female proportions in the manga have developed, nobody is going to judge, but there are a lot of people, me included, that would love it if Oda returned to realistic proportions like he drew them in the beginning, ESPECIALLY Nami. This is not about being able to take someone seriously, this is about oversexualisation in a negative way. This is just Oda catering to a certain target group while completely ignoring the majority of people who loved the old way of him doing female bodies.
This is NOT about all those weirdo character designs we like Oda for. This is just about quadrupling the size of known character's boobs for the heck of it.If you want to dig up issue, there's plenty of issues more important.
Violence, child beating, marine's justice? And you said you having a problem with the boobs? Lucky you… -
If you want to dig up issue, there's plenty of issues more important.
Violence, child beating, marine's justice? And you said you having a problem with the boobs? Lucky you…lol, but those are issues IN the series. Not COMING FROM it.
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I think few knows what sexism is, nor what a world without sexism would be like.
Rules to prevent sexism, that women asked in real world at the end of the day still discriminates between men and women.
You're smart enough to know that evolution is needed for survaivability of the species, which implies multiply the chance of mating in nature.
In most cases even animals evolve with visible features to be more appealing to mating partners.
In the real world the thing slightly changed to making money to be more appetizeable for mating, but that's not a nature rule, and it's doing it wrong.
I think that all the sexism speeches lead to nowhere, while we should look at the simplicity of nature to avoid forever sexism issues.
But that's something no one would ever do.
So in the end it's only a matter of how much you respect the other gender and consider it equal, while Countries' laws make messes about the whole argument.This is one of the most shitty things I've read in a while.
Oh hey! My boss groped me at work but really, I must ignore it since it's the natural order of things!
Oh hey! I work five times as that guy, but he got the promotion I deserved since as I am a woman I do not have the ability to lead my co-workers. That is the natural order of things!
Oh hey! An old man ogled at me and gave me lewd looks, but it's alright! Nature decided to give me big boobs so it's really my own fault for evolving in such way to attract males for the good of the species!You wouldn't know what sexism is if it bit you in the ass little boy. Not even sexism but equality in general. By your logic alone, people who have not 'evolved' in a way to attract the other gender, won't reproduce because that's what Nature orders. "Rules to prevent sexism, that women asked in real world" Rules? You surely don't mean rights. Like the rights to vote or work? What rules do you mean here really?
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Hey people. Let's go back to our Natural ways. Who needs clothes or using the toilet when you can go around naked and shit on the floor. DOWN WITH CIVILIZATION!
'Xept if you want to use selective hearing and just be civilized about mundane things, while keeping on being an animal about other matters. Disobedient woman? Bite her down.
Don't worry. She likes it. -
@Monkey:
lol, but those are issues IN the series. Not COMING FROM it.
Tell that to 7 - 13 year old kids, who got money from their parent, buy and read the manga alone in their room… Or to their mother...
Even after the censorship, the anime in my country has forced to end in thriller bark arc. Shinchan, Det. Conan and Inuyasha were non sexualisation(?) series still got banned. But the manga's still running. -
Tell that to 7 - 13 year old kids, who got money from their parent, buy and read the manga alone in their room… Or to their mother...
Even after the censorship, the anime in my country has forced to end in thriller bark arc. Shinchan, Det. Conan and Inuyasha were non sexualisation(?) series still got banned. But the manga's still running.Sounds a bit like the US lol.
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@Monkey:
Sounds a bit like the US lol.
Wait until the mothers realize the 'cartoon' source is from 'comic'…
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Wait until the mothers realize the 'cartoon' source is from 'comic'…
Did you ever see the first dub we got? Man.
I dunno if folks from Indonesia think the US is like wild and carefree Europe. But we have a long history of many of the same hangups and "family" values stubborness as the modern Muslim world. Only recently does it feel like it's dying.
Recall we outlawed alcohol once upon a time XD
I think recently in Turkey they passed some tough alcohol laws, and some Turks complained, and the Turkish leader said something like "um, weve only just made our laws as strict as Texas" and I was like UGHHH LOL. -
I have an extremely intelligent and capable friend in Cyprus. She is from Russia and she speaks 3 languages. She went for a job interview. There were two guys interviewing her. She was perfectly qualified. One of them completely ignored her presence while the other guy kept asking her questions for over an hour. At the end he told her they weren't planning on getting her since they wanted a guy with her skills to lead the company instead of a woman because a man is tough and more capable of being responsible for others. He told her he just kept her there because he liked her.
And yet you are against RULES that ban these behaviors and protect women from this kind of discrimination? That even protect men from this? Because I am pretty sure there are people who seek strictly attractive women in other jobs to attract male customers. Seriously. It's a really unhealthy view of things to just let everything be and not speak up and demand for equal rights and RESPECT for everyone.
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I feel we're going in circles here.
I think it would be best if the topic got locked, but that maybe just me wanting to avoid more conflict.
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And if we're going to compare Oda to his Jump brethren in his treatment of women, focusing on Kubo's Bleach
Orihime, the female main character gets kidnapped by a guy who'se design philosophy was to be as emo as possible
Because she has this amazing power to "reject" reality, meaning regrowing missings limbs, and restoring people back to life, amongst other things.
She was kidnapped on the orders of Aizen, a shitty super-powerfull always-have-a-contingency-for-every-possible-eventuality, who'se base power level gives him the ability to create reality defying ilusions on anyone who sees his sword, and who has a magic ball in his chest that grants him wishes.
She's physically tortured, mentally broken and then, when she gets out we get a wide shot showing how she's resolved to "reverse" said magic wishing ball.
Then we find out that Aizen not only never cared about her amazing to begin with, but that he only captured her so that one guy he had no way of knowing was gonna go after her would.
And then when the final battle takes place, she does show up, after a more then year long absence from the story, where Aizen is but does absolutely nothing to help, does not contribute to his defeat in any way, does not revert his magic ball thing, and is in fact, not even in the scene when Aizen gets defeated.
So she was kidnapped just so a guy would go after her, and after she resolves to get even and even makes it to where Aizen is, Kubo has her do absolutely nothing at all.
Then the next arc where she and Chad vow to be more usefull they get instantly brainwashed by a guy who creates memories that do not make logical sense, never question it, or the fact said guy is attacking Ichigo right in front of them, instead defend said brainwash guy and tell Ichigo that he needs to "apologise", and in the end they contribute nothing to the arc and have to get knocked out so they won't get in the way of people fighting.
Oh and as an aside, Kubo, before the arc started, said it was going to be "Chad's arc".
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i think women are portrayed ok, they aren't really strong in real life why would they belong to the strongest in a shonen manga? it's also a matter of fact that the average man is more intelligent than the average woman and that men have a bigger brain. women should be glad, they're even TOO STRONG in the maga, if anything.
but i hate that male characters always refuse to hurt women, it's sexistic and dumb. even zoro did this in the last arc. it was very out of character.
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i think women are portrayed ok, they aren't really strong in real life why would they belong to the strongest in a shonen manga? it's also a matter of fact that the average man is more intelligent than the average woman and that men have a bigger brain. women should be glad, they're even TOO STRONG in the maga, if anything.
Wow whales must all be five times as brilliant as Einstein! Quite a genius yourself showing off that thinkadink!
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@Monkey:
Did you ever see the first dub we got? Man.
I dunno if folks from Indonesia think the US is like wild and carefree Europe. But we have a long history of many of the same hangups and "family" values stubborness as the modern Muslim world. Only recently does it feel like it's dying.
Recall we outlawed alcohol once upon a time XD
I think recently in Turkey they passed some tough alcohol laws, and some Turks complained, and the Turkish leader said something like "um, weve only just made our laws as strict as Texas" and I was like UGHHH LOL.I don't know about Turkey's alcohol problem, but our statistic say more than 18k wasted life / year for alcohol, and the crime? Just recently the government made a change so the law can be set in local regulations.
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@Monkey:
Wow whales must all be five times as brilliant as Einstein! Quite a genius yourself showing off that thinkadink!
"For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much — the wheel, New York, wars and so on - whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reasons."
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, chapter 23.Sorry, but couldn't resist :ninja:
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@Monkey:
Almost as if I don't agree!
You don't say. To me, that's where, were someone trying to have a legitimate discussion on a topic in good faith, rather than simply take potshots at people, he (or she, of course!) would elaborate on why they held an opposing view, perhaps in an attempt to sway me, and at the least in order to allow us to better understand the position we each are arguing from. Or, given the context of a large thread like this, perhaps this hypothetical someone would simply say that they've already posted their thoughts on the issue, and tell me to go find them, which, while someone dismissive, would be understandably so.
Literally ignoring the only point brought up by a post because you disagree with it is about as unconducive to discussion as anything I can think of. It's not that this is a particularly major point to me, or anything, but it's just sort of bizarre to me, I suppose.
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@Panda:
You don't say. To me, that's where, were someone trying to have a legitimate discussion on a topic in good faith, rather than simply take potshots at people, he (or she, of course!) would elaborate on why they held an opposing view, perhaps in an attempt to sway me, and at the least in order to allow us to better understand the position we each are arguing from. Or, given the context of a large thread like this, perhaps this hypothetical someone would simply say that they've already posted their thoughts on the issue, and tell me to go find them, which, while someone dismissive, would be understandably so.
Literally ignoring the only point brought up by a post because you disagree with it is about as unconducive to discussion as anything I can think of. It's not that this is a particularly major point to me, or anything, but it's just sort of bizarre to me, I suppose.
You say this like we were having a discussion!
When in reality you grabbed a random part of a post I made, a hypothetical directed at no one in particular.
Made a snarky comment at it, and I responded in kind. Which then you spun into your thoughts on Sanji that I don't give a shit about.I don't owe you a fucking Sanji argument
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This fucking thread -
@Monkey:
Wow whales must all be five times as brilliant as Einstein! Quite a genius yourself showing off that thinkadink!
you make fun of my intelligence while making such dumb statements? female and male humans are both human, same species, same brain structure. whales are not, you know?
@mods: funny that i get a point for just stating a fact, btw.
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i think women are portrayed ok, they aren't really strong in real life why would they belong to the strongest in a shonen manga? it's also a matter of fact that the average man is more intelligent than the average woman and that men have a bigger brain. women should be glad, they're even TOO STRONG in the maga, if anything.
but i hate that male characters always refuse to hurt women, it's sexistic and dumb. even zoro did this in the last arc. it was very out of character.
You are sexistic and dumb.
@No:
I feel we're going in circles here.
I think it would be best if the topic got locked, but that maybe just me wanting to avoid more conflict.
There was actually some pretty good discussion these last few pages. I was remarkably happy to see a conversation about the difference between Newkama Land and Kamabakka Island, which is something that I had always noticed. I was also happy to see discussion about a whole host of other things that would never in a million years be discussed on other forums (that DON'T have a focus on these issues). Really, this is the only place of its kind, where you would see anything even remotely bordering on what we've seen here. The problem is that it's still a manga/anime forum, and… "tragically misinformed" people like Kanzen are going to leak into the thread and spout their essentialist bullshit. Thankfully, MK is pretty good at smashing those people into the ground.
TL;DR: Sometimes, this thread goes in circles, and other times, it makes my brain want to forcibly remove itself from my skull and take a trip down the garbage disposal. But as it's extremely rare to see informed discussion about these issues on "normal forums", we should probably keep it alive.
Also, this is a random question, but has anyone else developed a strange attraction to Monkey King over the last few pages?
-snip-
Reading this story made me sick. And knowing that I have no prospects, reading this story made me more hopeless than I already am. In the video that MK posted, Bellemere asks her daughters not to hate the era they were born into. But in reality, I don't know that I'll ever stop hating it.
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@Monkey:
Oh I'm sorry are you another angry medd man? No fuck given.
Yeah, I'm furious for pointing out something totally ridiculous. I just can't handle all this rage man!!!
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Also, this is a random question, but has anyone else developed a strange attraction to Monkey King over the last few pages?
Reading this story made me sick. And knowing that I have no prospects, reading this story made me more hopeless than I already am. In the video that MK posted, Bellemere asks her daughters not to hate the era they were born into. But in reality, I don't know that I'll ever stop hating it.
She is such a wonderful person too. Raising her daughter all alone because her ex is a good for nothing loser. She needed that job badly and being ridiculed like that just because she is a beautiful woman, was absolutely disgusting.
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In the video that MK posted, Bellemere asks her daughters not to hate the era they were born into. But in reality, I don't know that I'll ever stop hating it.
It just the video/anime, right?
Maybe this thread should move to General One Piece…
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Haha! I can't believe it! Are these really examples of sexism? I label those people as assholes.
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i think women are portrayed ok, they aren't really strong in real life why would they belong to the strongest in a shonen manga? it's also a matter of fact that the average man is more intelligent than the average woman and that men have a bigger brain. women should be glad, they're even TOO STRONG in the maga, if anything.
but i hate that male characters always refuse to hurt women, it's sexistic and dumb. even zoro did this in the last arc. it was very out of character.
I've seen you be a horrible poster before, but wow, this is one of the stupidest things I've heard in a while. You realize that there is absolutely no correlation between brain size and intelligence in humans, right? Like, studies have been done, and never came up with anything. Probably because what really matters is the ratio of brain size to the rest of the body. Which is absolutely not different between women and men
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@Monkey:
Almost as if I don't agree!
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Yeah, that childish sexist author .
suggests reason he doesn't like the big boobs is that it makes him not take the women seriously
Fuck you.There is difference between large breasts and making them look like a caricature and in One Piece they are seriously starting to look like a joke. There may have been an excuse earlier on with the manga needing to lure immature teen boys to climb up the ladder but now that it's so successful it's about time they actually started making at least the female straw hats look goddamn normal like they were in the beginning
Violence, child beating, marine's justice? And you said you having a problem with the boobs? Lucky you…
Well seeing as how the boobs are in pretty much every single episode, they look beyond silly and are dragging down great characters(and the only regular female characters) yeah I think that's pretty much one of the main issues in the manga. In fact apart from this there aren't really any real problems with One Piece. The child beatings, marine justice those are just plot points. The boobs are pathetic fanservice that's really not needed
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you make fun of my intelligence while making such dumb statements? female and male humans are both human, same species, same brain structure. whales are not, you know?
Yes, structure. The actual thing that determines thinking capacity, and is entirely unrelated to size. And is the reason why those whales are not as smart as us humans.
Thanks for refuting your own argument for me.How horrifying to know there are people willing to look down on 50% of earth for stupid factual errors they make.
But hey, I think we'd all be giving you too much credit to think the "fact" came before the sexism. -
Einstein actually had a below average sized brain, as he had a below average sized head. I'll stop feeding kanzen the troll now though.
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Wonder who was people's go to genius before Einstein
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Newton or da vinci I guess?
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Some dead Greek or another.
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i think women are portrayed ok, they aren't really strong in real life why would they belong to the strongest in a shonen manga? it's also a matter of fact that the average man is more intelligent than the average woman and that men have a bigger brain. women should be glad, they're even TOO STRONG in the maga, if anything.
In One Piece, 17 year old boys can destroy building blocks with nothing but their own personal non-DF derived strenght. People can survive 10 story falls. Trying to set restrictions on the female gender in a manga such as this because of differences in muscle mass in real world biology is ridiculous.
And women are "TOO STRONG!!!" ?
I'm sorry, what?In a story where people can THROW ICEBERGS, the most impressive physical feats out of any woman propably belong to Kalifa, when she managed to tug a train cart. Kalifa was the butt end of CP9, 7 times weaker than Lucci before Zoan induced power boost. But i guess being 14 times weaker than your male collegue is TOO STRONG for a woman.
Just look at Some of the most dangerous women in the series, Perona, Hancock, who fight using broken magic abilities rather than absurd physical strength. -
i think women are portrayed ok, they aren't really strong in real life why would they belong to the strongest in a shonen manga? it's also a matter of fact that the average man is more intelligent than the average woman and that men have a bigger brain. women should be glad, they're even TOO STRONG in the maga, if anything.
but i hate that male characters always refuse to hurt women, it's sexistic and dumb. even zoro did this in the last arc. it was very out of character.
Lol, how did you last in this forum for two years?
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Lol, how did you last in this forum for two years?
He lurks for months, only to appear once in a while to troll a bit and then disappear again when he starts attracting too much hate.
Though, I do would like to see more great feats of physical strength from a Nami-proportioned female.
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@The:
In One Piece, 17 year old boys can destroy building blocks with nothing but their own personal non-DF derived strenght. People can survive 10 story falls. Trying to set restrictions on the female gender in a manga such as this because of differences in muscle mass in real world biology is ridiculous.
And women are "TOO STRONG!!!" ?
I'm sorry, what?In a story where people can THROW ICEBERGS, the most impressive physical feats out of any woman propably belong to Kalifa, when she managed to tug a train cart. Kalifa was the butt end of CP9, 7 times weaker than Lucci before Zoan induced power boost. But i guess being 14 times weaker than your male collegue is TOO STRONG for a woman.
Just look at Some of the most dangerous women in the series, Perona, Hancock, who fight using broken magic abilities rather than absurd physical strength.I don't agree with that guy but you're clearly ignoring the existence of BIG fucking MOM is she a tranny?
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Well, I'm interested to see what comes of Big Mom and Catalina Devon. They're ugly, so it's possible that they're strong.
EDIT: I wrote this before I saw the T-slur comment.
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Well, I'm interested to see what comes of Big Mom and Catalina Devon. They're ugly, so it's possible that they're strong.
Well, Big Mom's humungous, so she should at least be able to put alot of mass behind the force of her punches, though it remains to be seen how much acceleration she can get.
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Well, Big Mom's humungous, so she should at least be able to put alot of mass behind the force of her punches, though it remains to be seen how much acceleration she can get.
And we should also wait to know wether or not she punch.
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Well, I'm interested to see what comes of Big Mom and Catalina Devon. They're ugly, so it's possible that they're strong.
EDIT: I wrote this before I saw the T-slur comment.
LOL at t slur
t people are they female or male? Answer me ms. nice person my point was that Big mom is treated like she is not a female I don't care about what you call other genders I didn't mean any disrespect for them if that's what you mean.
Also is Boa hancock weak? she is a master of haki and some stupid ppl here are saying she uses magical powers.. -
Well, CCC's take on it isn't really that divisive. (I think?)
I think so too?
I was more puzzled than anything. Why show a positive version of a demographic and then flip the script to demonize and show a grossly exaggerated and terrifying version of them that goes right in line with every negative stereotype ever? It's weird structurally, and "haha it's a joke just laugh because men with stubble and dresses are funny because that's what sitcoms taught me and lol sanji funnny" isn't satisfying in the least. -
@CCC:
I think so too?
I was more puzzled than anything. Why show a positive version of a demographic and then flip the script to demonize and show a grossly exaggerated and terrifying version of them that goes right in line with every negative stereotype ever? It's weird structurally, and "haha it's a joke just laugh because men with stubble and dresses are funny because that's what sitcoms taught me and lol sanji funnny" isn't satisfying in the least.Well, I would say that's ultimately how it went down. I believe his portrayal with Ivankov and Bon Clay are his ultimate thoughts on the matter as in he believes it is a perfectly fine lifestyle choice if that's how the person wants to live. Heck, doesn't Oda have a friend he based Ivankov off of? I believe he did fit the stereotype of what people usually imagine when they think of okamas, but Oda certainly fits the case of being okay with the lifestyle for those who choose it. I also just don't think he sees a problem in also making jokes based on them either. Even those okamas could even be considered to be good in the end too since they were instrumental in Sanji's training during the two years he was there and helping the Strawhats escape the marines at Sabaondy.
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@CCC:
"haha it's a joke just laugh because men with stubble and dresses are funny because that's what sitcoms taught me and lol sanji funnny" isn't satisfying in the least.
Now i feel guilty for laughing at all those 'allo 'allo episodes
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I don't agree with that guy but you're clearly ignoring the existence of BIG fucking MOM is she a tranny?
We don't know anything about Big Moms fighting style/physical strength level yet. My post was simultaneously ridiculing his assertion that one should expect OP women to be ohysically weak because they're women, and sadly stating that despite that, a disprespectancy between male/female power levels does seem to exist in the series.
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Also is Boa hancock weak? she is a master of haki and some stupid ppl here are saying she uses magical powers..
I was referring to her overpowered DF ability which her fighting style revolves completely around, as opposed to brute strength.
Hancocks best physical feats involve Perfume femur, which was used against fodder and completely impassive enemies respecively (and also directly utilizes her DF).
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I don't know what Kanze is talking about but in real world the Top 2 highest IQ belongs to women.
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Looking at the ratio of men:women in schools, while having multiple levels of middle/high schools, women are cleary, by a mile, better off.
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@Monkey:
Boy is it ever NOT. Do you like know ANY history?
One Piece's world absolutely has no direct correlation to real life history in really any shape or form.
This isn't some alternate earth like Berserk has, with clear fantasy versions of Germany, France, Italian city-states, and a Indianized take on the Ottoman Empire.
This is a completely different world of zero resemblance to earth. There are no parallels to be drawn in virtually any way. Even the nature of the pirate era is completely unrelated to the real world equivalent.I dunno though, do you remember when in the 1700's a relatively late 20th century appearing world was under a single government and military? Yeah, phew, crazy times.
Nothing screams it. What the hell series are you talking about lol. Farming and what now?? Have we EVER seen people farming aside from Bellmere?
One Piece has a globalized modern economy lollll, complete with mass produced name brand fashion lines, multiple ones.
Hell it's reeeallly obviously even post-industrial!
The only thing keeping it from being 20th Century is the vehicular technology! And even there the ships and whatnot are way beyond 1700's stuff!Again, "ucronic".
Or dystopian if you prefer.ahahahaha, you've never gotten it, never all along. Objectivity? You really thought it was about that? You know nothing about what I do.
Is a jab someone not from Italy could maybe make lol.
For godsakes, Bersculoni. Nuff said.
That's some borderline Eastern Europe shit with that guy. Except I think I'm insulting Eastern Europe!I start seeing what you do…but I see how you fail.
Mentioning Berlusconi to picture the flaws of Italy is merely an act of sheer ignorance since our troubles come from at least 60 years ago.
Funny how many didn't know that our third president Gronchi had an heartstroke between the legs of a prostitute, and Andreotti's relations with mafia, or the involvment of many industrials with Zionist lobbies, politicized magistrature that jailed 50000 innocent people in the last 20 years, keeps criminals outside the bars and close one of Europe's biggest steel factory because they don't know the meaning of judiciary subject.
It doesn't do us a good service, but saying "Berlusconi"...man, it's either ignorance or douchebaggery.Third world Italy, otherwise known as turn of the century Mezzogiorno, is where a good mass percentage of the people around me came from if only in part these days.
And we didn't fuck it up over here like the old country seems to be doing while still trying to say the south is the problem. May even land the presidency in three years.
Please, Europe is part of my life for a little while longer. The policies in the EU are kicking my fiance's country in the balls among other things. So I'm not some impartial outsider anymore, I'm gonna say when your shit stinks. Because it just might be tossed on her island.
What's more, that whole southern european greco-latin machismo bullshit is MOST FUCKING CERTAINLY a negative part of my female greco-latin southern european's life.
I seen how it is in her place, in Greece, and in Italy, hell even France. You damn right I'm bringing it up.
And don't think of me as some detached patrician redneck american either, I have roots directly in your soil my own self.
This is very much personal.Third world Italy is the whole Italy in my book, not the south.
I don't discriminate between my Countrymen or other populations, like you like to do.
And as much as I don't like how things goes, I stay and fight for my country.So do you imagine that President Kennedy was in like the 90's or something lol? My dad wasn't even born when that happened XD
What does that mean, we can't erase history because it's where we come from.
Denying our history saying that "we changed" it's bullshit.
We must acknowledge our errors and keep them in mind any single day.
But America is a place that doesn't learn.Yeah because that wouldn't make any sense?
Because calling him misoginist for fictional characters makes sense, innit?
Why is it "messing with". No one's suggesting Oda is actively a bad dude doing bad things. They're just pointing out some very human flaws in his writing that we wish were better. Wish he were more exceptional about, rather than sadly typical.
No one gives a shit when Kishimoto is worthless in this regard (and boy is he ever), because no one RESPECTS that guy.
When Oda does something off, it's precisely because we respect him that we feel the need to point out when he lapses.
And he is most certainly an otherwise progressive dude! There's concepts of racial tension he captured (Jimbei's talking about how problematic it might be for Luffy to defeat Hody without it being framed right) that even average Americans, with all their constant exposure to racial discussion, would be clueless about.
Which is frankly AMAZING coming from a guy from one of the most homogenous countries on earth that never ever thinks about such issues!I agree on this.
This thread exists entirely because of how much people love this series and like this author. You could even call it a fantasy intervention session.
It might be but I also see lots of people who just hate on things for the sake of it.
Ah yes, the exotic east! With their curious customs! Yellow man very fond of bad woman behaviour! I shall keep my noble western culture outside their savage alien ways. After all they don't know any better, those silly people.
Truly all cultures are stagnant and have always been as they are now. ignores literally everything
Differences don't imply being better or worse.
But yeah, I see your point, America likes to change what's different with wars.This is one of the most shitty things I've read in a while.
Oh hey! My boss groped me at work but really, I must ignore it since it's the natural order of things!
Oh hey! I work five times as that guy, but he got the promotion I deserved since as I am a woman I do not have the ability to lead my co-workers. That is the natural order of things!
Oh hey! An old man ogled at me and gave me lewd looks, but it's alright! Nature decided to give me big boobs so it's really my own fault for evolving in such way to attract males for the good of the species!You wouldn't know what sexism is if it bit you in the ass little boy. Not even sexism but equality in general. By your logic alone, people who have not 'evolved' in a way to attract the other gender, won't reproduce because that's what Nature orders. "Rules to prevent sexism, that women asked in real world" Rules? You surely don't mean rights. Like the rights to vote or work? What rules do you mean here really?
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Hey people. Let's go back to our Natural ways. Who needs clothes or using the toilet when you can go around naked and shit on the floor. DOWN WITH CIVILIZATION!
'Xept if you want to use selective hearing and just be civilized about mundane things, while keeping on being an animal about other matters. Disobedient woman? Bite her down.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTiL7MzkscRnJy2RRPbQH6-WNhUhum__VnNGDS2lOQQajrBfDbWvQ
Don't worry. She likes it.I have an extremely intelligent and capable friend in Cyprus. She is from Russia and she speaks 3 languages. She went for a job interview. There were two guys interviewing her. She was perfectly qualified. One of them completely ignored her presence while the other guy kept asking her questions for over an hour. At the end he told her they weren't planning on getting her since they wanted a guy with her skills to lead the company instead of a woman because a man is tough and more capable of being responsible for others. He told her he just kept her there because he liked her.
And yet you are against RULES that ban these behaviors and protect women from this kind of discrimination? That even protect men from this? Because I am pretty sure there are people who seek strictly attractive women in other jobs to attract male customers. Seriously. It's a really unhealthy view of things to just let everything be and not speak up and demand for equal rights and RESPECT for everyone.
You totally misunderstood me here.
As you saw from the bad adventure your friend went through, it's not about laws.
We already have a fundamental law that says that all citizens are equal.
CITIZENS, as concept of whole population of a Country.
Men and women are equals for the law.
And, it's despicable but this law is never enforced.
So, on top of that, Countries have written laws to make women "more equal", but even these laws still fail.
Silly stupid laws, I must say since employment quotas are never 50%-50%.
What I mean is that the problem of sexism, which is a bad burden we inherited from Judaic/Christian/Muslim culture CAN NOT be completely solved by laws.
The important role of the woman in the society is nothing that can be pushed into people with laws, but with education.
There are indeed examples of historic society where the role of women was important, like "Viking" culture, but our "civilization" has preferred to ignore it because we're controlled by a Christian/Judaic system.
And it's despicable how media gives little to no importance to the brave feminist movement in Iran for example.Laws can obviously help but only marginally, since the problems are in mindsets.
We have laws against murder and thievery, still there are murder cases and stealings every day.
Sexual harrassment unfortunately is something that can't even be proved and judged "clearly" by law.
Did laws prevent the guy who spoke to your friend to be a douchebag?
It's pretty horrible to read around that Sanji should kick women because he should treat women like men.
I think it's a very much distorted concept of respect and not where building equality should start or end.
But can we expect something different in a society where the very familiar bonds are just a piece of paper, and the relation husband/wife is not considered important?So…in the end, nature itself say men and women are equal and need each other, but we completely fucked up the message.
It's fun you posted the lion mating pic, which is obviously the first image that would come to mind, but you forgot a Black Widow or a Praying Mantis as an example of gender equality.
I seriously hope, that it was just an anger reaction, and not your true stance about sex equality.
We should thought of penguins a bit more for a example