Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

Ivotas

@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

As a strong Carrot supporter I feel like I've already said all I can about the character joining so don't need to rehash that. I'd rather like to go the opposite route and point out what I don't really like about her portrayal and honestly is something I think the character can do without. That's the entire thing about turning her a Chopper cheerleader in the first half of Wholecake. It came totally out of the left field and served no purpose at all. And I still think we saw her do the Bropper/Choniki thing at some point in Wano. I can honestly do without a character being another Strawhat's cheerleader in the crew. Sanji get's a pass because he is the same for every woman, not just Nami and Robin. But if I say that Hancock and Bartolomeo would break the dynamic on the Sunny by fangasming over Luffy, then I have to play it fair and say I wouldn't like to see the same thing with Carrot and Chopper.

Eh, I didn't see her as his cheerleader. There was this senpai-kohai relationship, or big brother-little sister, but Carrot was definitely not there to cheer on Chopper as his support to make him look cooler. They were diving the job, and arguably Carrot outshined Chopper in their little side adventure.

We don't have to call her cheerleader. A sempai-kohai relationship is just as it has a clear structure of who's the superior and subordinate. Deviding their work share is doesn't change that as it's an integral part of a sempai-kohai relationship. Personally I prefer avoiding any labels among the Strawhat crew which would remind me of this concept.

theackwardstation

@Ivotas the nature of their kohai-senpai relationship has only one dimension: one is the experienced adventurer and the other the rookie eager to know more. It didn't play out like a hierarchy of superior and subordinate -- the submissive Carrot and the master Chopper --, but instead more like a playful respect between the two in their tag team. And it was cool because Chopper was the rookie in Alabasta, so it was fun to see him as a senpai later.

Ivotas

@theackwardstation
That's the thing though. Putting Mr. "Yosh, I'm gonna try my best too" in a senpai role just ruins the kohai for me.

DynoStretch

In regards to Vivi, I've heard people voice that she wouldn't put her desire to rejoin the Straw Hats over the people of Alabasta. And yeah, I can totally get that.

Here's the thing though, in light of the recent events, she might not even have the choice to be a proper leader for the people.

Recall when the Five Elders met with King Im (Ch 908). He was holding a picture of Vivi as they asked Im to reveal the name of the "light" that needed to be extinguished from history.

One possible interpretation I have is that Im wants Vivi for some reason, but she's untouchable due to her status as royalty. So in order to have her captured, he needed to 'extinguish' the Nefertari's royal status, essentially making her no longer a princess (perhaps having her go AWOL in the wake of Cobra's death would cause this) .

She'd realize she couldn't fix things for the world in her old position, so she rejoins the Straw Hats in order to bring the world to the vision she wants.

theackwardstation

@Ivotas well, lol, Chopper is who Chopper is. He and Carrot are the playful juniors and there's this juvenile vibe about it.

Hakase

If there is still old Oda left I think there is no doubt that Vivi rejoining will happen and it will feel right some way or another and I think this will be regardless of an 11th person existing or not before her. To me I think that's just a very beautiful moment that would be an absolute waste to not make happen in the series but well.... I'm also at an all time low when it comes to trust in the writing. But again I think just on paper readers seeing the promise fulfilled that many real life years ago and Vivi being able to sail one last time with the crew again close to the end is just way too good to not happen.

electricmastro

@Hakase said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

If there is still old Oda left I think there is no doubt that Vivi rejoining will happen and it will feel right some way or another and I think this will be regardless of an 11th person existing or not before her. To me I think that's just a very beautiful moment that would be an absolute waste to not make happen in the series but well.... I'm also at an all time low when it comes to trust in the writing. But again I think just on paper readers seeing the promise fulfilled that many real life years ago and Vivi being able to sail one last time with the crew again close to the end is just way too good to not happen.

I'm definitely willing to be believe she'll sail with them again, but not join, as per mentioned, since I honestly don't get the feeling she has abandoned her ultimate ambition to care for her country at this point, much less so after Cobra got killed.

Bugs

I ain't saying I think she's joining... but we can't say with 100 % certainty that going back to Arabasta is an option her. Depending on how things went down (with both her father's death and being of interest to Imu, though I'm pretty confident she doesn't view the WG as an ally anymore), it could be too dangerous for her or her people to go back home. For all we know, Luffy's protection might be her best option. Until we actually know where she is, it's just speculation.

electricmastro

@Bugs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I ain't saying I think she's joining... but we can't say with 100 % certainty that going back to Arabasta is an option her. Depending on how things went down (with both her father's death and being of interest to Imu, though I'm pretty confident she doesn't view the WG as an ally anymore), it could be too dangerous for her or her people to go back home. For all we know, Luffy's protection might be her best option. Until we actually know where she is, it's just speculation.

As mentioned, I think it really depends on where Vivi's ultimate ambition lies. If she ultimately wants to go with Luffy, then fine, but if she still wants to care for Alabasta despite the circumstances with Cobra, then maybe Luffy would help give it more protection like he did with Wano. And if that's not enough, Luffy would need to get more back-up.

danie

@electricmastro I think the idea is that Vivi won't be able to return to Arabasta until Imu is dealt with. So if she isn't meant to his prisoner or something, she will join.

Kind of a sour reason to become an official crewmate but, meh. I'll take it!

Deicide

I’m sure Vivi will be on the ship again and be a key factor ahead.

I just don’t think she will be the 11th. She will be a companion like Momo or Kin’emon, and she will be “nakama” in-story. However, “the 11th”, as acknowledged in color spreads, match-ups and a Blackbeard counterpart, won’t be her.

Shin10 Bukuro

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I’m sure Vivi will be on the ship again and be a key factor ahead.

I just don’t think she will be the 11th. She will be a companion like Momo or Kin’emon, and she will be “nakama” in-story. However, “the 11th”, as acknowledged in color spreads, match-ups and a Blackbeard counterpart, won’t be her.

This is all totally fair. But it makes you wonder...

Do we really need an 11th "official" Strawhat? For what purpose?

Zanze

What if not every Blackbeard fights a Straw Hat 1 on 1? The party could start with all the Straw Hats VS San Juan Wolf, for example.
Plus I don't think Aokiji (if he is indeed a commander, but I mean what other role could he have?) is actually going to fight a Straw Hat to the death in the endgame.

Call me boring but I think the crew is complete with Jinbe

danie

Until proven otherwise, I'm going with with the idea that Vivi will become the final official crewmate!

The Youtube header released a while back and the situation surrounding Vivi now pretty much convinced me that if we get another official crewmate, it will be Vivi!

electricmastro

@danie said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro I think the idea is that Vivi won't be able to return to Arabasta until Imu is dealt with. So if she isn't meant to his prisoner or something, she will join.

Kind of a sour reason to become an official crewmate but, meh. I'll take it!

I mean, if she returns to Alabasta to ultimately care for it, then how could she be sailing as a crewmate with Luffy and the others?

danie

@electricmastro She won't be returning until the end of the story. i imagine she won't be only crewmate returning home by the end of the story.

Deicide

@Shin10-Bukuro
“Need” is relative. I feel one was planned long ago. If so, the author feels some need for it.

Galleon Panthera

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Why Carrot? What has she done to deserve being a Straw Hat? I've thought about that for a long time. Especially during Wano, when she had little to do and Yamato came crashing in, I was trying to understand what I originally saw that made me want to stick with her despite it all.

What I've come to understand is Carrot has barely begun her story, and her failings up to now have, in fact, been very important. Failure, inadequacy, weakness. All the Straw Hats have suffered from these at some point in their lives, and it was part of what made the tragedies in their backstories so engaging.

Look at Chopper for instance: he tried so hard to cure Dr. Hiriluk but was naive enough to give him a poison mushroom thinking it was a cure. Yet Hiriluk embraced him, pushed him forward by eating that mushroom anyway so that Chopper would continue to pursue medicine.

Some of Usopp's greatest character development happened precisely because he wasn't strong enough. Zoro used his moment of weakness, losing to Mihawk, to push himself forward. Franky blamed himself and his ships for Tom being taken away and had to overcome those feelings to join. Brook survived his crew's slaughter strictly because his fruit gave him a second life. Jinbe becoming a warlord released Arlong and begged Nami for forgiveness. Nami herself begged Luffy to help her in her darkest moment, as did Robin. Even for Luffy himself, quite a few defining moments were when he failed: losing Shanks' arm, losing his crew, losing Ace.

Pedro told Carrot to move onward. But he messed up, went backward instead by chasing revenge. Obviously I didn't want Carrot to fail at the time; I wanted her to win, I wanted her to have a proper battle with Perospero. But I also wanted her to fight for the right reasons: not for revenge, but because he had to be prevented from attacking others. And when she not only failed, but was happy ro let someone else take care of it, that really annoyed me. I didn't know of she had gotten anything meaningful out of her experience.

But she was presented with yet another way to go backward, by going home to Zou and staying there permanently as it's ruler. And this time, she paused. She didn't decide anything. That is key, that's very important. She remembers Pedro's will, she knows he never chose to be a king and had a mission centuries in the making to fulfill. And for once, Carrot isn’t making a rash, hasty decision. That is crazy important for her.

I really hope that Carrot can stick the landing. I hope she will show why she wants to join, why she must join. I knew she was the one the moment Pedro died, when Luffy counted her among his crew and when she was there to welcome Jinbe back. She's the 10th.

If so, that makes me wonder why she's being treated so weirdly as late. Like, I wish Oda could just get it over with, so these debates can end.

If she doesn't join (and I have no real faith anymore that she will), these debates are going to continue till the end of the series. What joy....

electricmastro

@Galleon-Panthera said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Why Carrot? What has she done to deserve being a Straw Hat? I've thought about that for a long time. Especially during Wano, when she had little to do and Yamato came crashing in, I was trying to understand what I originally saw that made me want to stick with her despite it all.

What I've come to understand is Carrot has barely begun her story, and her failings up to now have, in fact, been very important. Failure, inadequacy, weakness. All the Straw Hats have suffered from these at some point in their lives, and it was part of what made the tragedies in their backstories so engaging.

Look at Chopper for instance: he tried so hard to cure Dr. Hiriluk but was naive enough to give him a poison mushroom thinking it was a cure. Yet Hiriluk embraced him, pushed him forward by eating that mushroom anyway so that Chopper would continue to pursue medicine.

Some of Usopp's greatest character development happened precisely because he wasn't strong enough. Zoro used his moment of weakness, losing to Mihawk, to push himself forward. Franky blamed himself and his ships for Tom being taken away and had to overcome those feelings to join. Brook survived his crew's slaughter strictly because his fruit gave him a second life. Jinbe becoming a warlord released Arlong and begged Nami for forgiveness. Nami herself begged Luffy to help her in her darkest moment, as did Robin. Even for Luffy himself, quite a few defining moments were when he failed: losing Shanks' arm, losing his crew, losing Ace.

Pedro told Carrot to move onward. But he messed up, went backward instead by chasing revenge. Obviously I didn't want Carrot to fail at the time; I wanted her to win, I wanted her to have a proper battle with Perospero. But I also wanted her to fight for the right reasons: not for revenge, but because he had to be prevented from attacking others. And when she not only failed, but was happy ro let someone else take care of it, that really annoyed me. I didn't know of she had gotten anything meaningful out of her experience.

But she was presented with yet another way to go backward, by going home to Zou and staying there permanently as it's ruler. And this time, she paused. She didn't decide anything. That is key, that's very important. She remembers Pedro's will, she knows he never chose to be a king and had a mission centuries in the making to fulfill. And for once, Carrot isn’t making a rash, hasty decision. That is crazy important for her.

I really hope that Carrot can stick the landing. I hope she will show why she wants to join, why she must join. I knew she was the one the moment Pedro died, when Luffy counted her among his crew and when she was there to welcome Jinbe back. She's the 10th.

If so, that makes me wonder why she's being treated so weirdly as late. Like, I wish Oda could just get it over with, so these debates can end.

If she doesn't join (and I have no real faith anymore that she will), these debates are going to continue till the end of the series. What joy....

Maybe Oda didn't feel like having the debate end, which thus led to a cliffhanger of Carrot in the middle of her choice and Yamato at odds as to whether or not she'll give up on her sailing ambition.

Oda def never ceases on coming up with ways to encourage more people to keep talking about his manga. lol

Shiebs

We do have one more species we don’t know about, maybe the last Straw Hat will be whatever that is

Ivotas

@Galleon-Panthera said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Why Carrot? What has she done to deserve being a Straw Hat? I've thought about that for a long time. Especially during Wano, when she had little to do and Yamato came crashing in, I was trying to understand what I originally saw that made me want to stick with her despite it all.

What I've come to understand is Carrot has barely begun her story, and her failings up to now have, in fact, been very important. Failure, inadequacy, weakness. All the Straw Hats have suffered from these at some point in their lives, and it was part of what made the tragedies in their backstories so engaging.

Look at Chopper for instance: he tried so hard to cure Dr. Hiriluk but was naive enough to give him a poison mushroom thinking it was a cure. Yet Hiriluk embraced him, pushed him forward by eating that mushroom anyway so that Chopper would continue to pursue medicine.

Some of Usopp's greatest character development happened precisely because he wasn't strong enough. Zoro used his moment of weakness, losing to Mihawk, to push himself forward. Franky blamed himself and his ships for Tom being taken away and had to overcome those feelings to join. Brook survived his crew's slaughter strictly because his fruit gave him a second life. Jinbe becoming a warlord released Arlong and begged Nami for forgiveness. Nami herself begged Luffy to help her in her darkest moment, as did Robin. Even for Luffy himself, quite a few defining moments were when he failed: losing Shanks' arm, losing his crew, losing Ace.

Pedro told Carrot to move onward. But he messed up, went backward instead by chasing revenge. Obviously I didn't want Carrot to fail at the time; I wanted her to win, I wanted her to have a proper battle with Perospero. But I also wanted her to fight for the right reasons: not for revenge, but because he had to be prevented from attacking others. And when she not only failed, but was happy ro let someone else take care of it, that really annoyed me. I didn't know of she had gotten anything meaningful out of her experience.

But she was presented with yet another way to go backward, by going home to Zou and staying there permanently as it's ruler. And this time, she paused. She didn't decide anything. That is key, that's very important. She remembers Pedro's will, she knows he never chose to be a king and had a mission centuries in the making to fulfill. And for once, Carrot isn’t making a rash, hasty decision. That is crazy important for her.

I really hope that Carrot can stick the landing. I hope she will show why she wants to join, why she must join. I knew she was the one the moment Pedro died, when Luffy counted her among his crew and when she was there to welcome Jinbe back. She's the 10th.

If so, that makes me wonder why she's being treated so weirdly as late. Like, I wish Oda could just get it over with, so these debates can end.

If she doesn't join (and I have no real faith anymore that she will), these debates are going to continue till the end of the series. What joy....

It's not a problem exclusive to Carrot herself. To give you a different example of a character being treated weirdly for too long until he got his moment to shine look no further than Sanji. For many years, quite a number of people considered that Oda has turned him into a lesser version of his pre-timeskip self. His attraction to women which was a charming gag before, now goes way overboard. And in terms of fighting last time he actually shined was during Fishman Island (and even then he had to team up with Jimbei). There weren't just a few who thought that he lost his place in the monster trio.

Of course not everyone thought so but we have to admit that many people saw issues with this which is why they didn't expect him to take on an opponent of Queen's level. Personally I never thought he would not take on Queen as I never thought that in Oda's mind Sanji has lost his favor. Rather I thought that Oda just didn't feel the need to write moments where he shines. I'm not saying it's a good choice by Oda. Just what it felt like to me. But now with Sanji defeating Queen many seem to have forgetten the qualms they had before (though I don't think one fight is enough to make up for years of turning him into a lesser version of the old Sanji).

To bring this back to Carrot. I'm well aware that her and Sanji are not the same in so many ways. What I'm trying to say is that Carrot would't be the only character to be neglected for a period of time. It's just that we in this forum put bigger emphasis on her because the next crewmate seems is one trademark discussions to be had here. There most likely will be even an "X character for nakama" discussion going on, long after the series ended. Doesn't mean though that this might be yet another character, where Oda might just feel that he's done enough.

I mean we all often complain how Oda handled badly in various ways, be it too little or too much focus, contradictory motivations, actions and/or traits and whatnot. Just now with Yamato many people are rightfully upset about the flow of how her 180 was handled. Yet for Carrot everybody expects an Oda in his prime who writes stories with an organic and natural flow, with no contradictions and satisfying conclusions. Where's this expectation coming from after witnessing so many examples of Oda not being as good a writer as people (myself included) innitially made him out to be.

Zik

@SeaOfHope said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Zik As Shift said, if we get to the next island and Carrot isn't there, we can drop the arguments and theory she stowed away. You're acting like we're stubbornly believing something beyond what we've asserted or making new arguments beyond what we have said here.

Again, you’re weirdly speaking as if you speak for all Carrot fans. You’re also acting as if I’m personally speaking to you in regards to how far some fans may want to take their Carrot “theories” and ideas.

You can believe what you want doesn’t mean that’s how it’ll turn out.

@SeaOfHope said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Zik said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@SeaOfHope said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Zik said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@SeaOfHope said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Zik said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Zik said in [Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

When you say literally nobody said that do you mean just in this thread or at all?

Cuz there have been Carrot and next nakama thread discussions going on in spoiler threads, chapter threads, and wherever else on this forum.

Nobody said that at all in this forum. People who root for Carrot have always set Wano as a deadline, ending at the stowaway theory.

LOL

You really can’t back that up with any proof but okay. All of the Carrot for nakama posters are all on the same page about when they’ll stop carrying on their Carrot for nakama talk.

Bet

January 7th, 2021

...Therefore, if Carrot wants to join and tag along again, there's no reason that I see why Luffy would turn her down. He's familiar enough with her, more familiar than he initially was with Robin when they met outside of curiosity, and they are perfectly fine friends as it is. If Carrot invites herself, like when she stows away again, Luffy is gonna roll with it and let her. If anything of her character stirs up, then so be it. There's plausibility here, that's all I'm reinforcing. The only thing stopping Carrot is herself.

EDIT: Found another.
January 4th, 2021

...Contrary to what Shift believes, I'm of the belief that Carrot doesn't officially join the crew when Wano concludes, but will stowaway (again), follow them to the next island which hopefully will be Elbaf so that her interest in giants might be shown, and by then we'll have more insight into her end goal as well as purpose. She needs time to develop, maybe she'll grow more than we hypothesize in this arc, but I fail to understand how she won't continue being around the Straw Hats when Pedro's last words were to know their significance and then peeps are saying she simply goes away thereafter.

EDIT: Another one.

November 15th, 2020

She has shown many times that she can do whatever she wants with no one's approval. She has a a responsibility to her people? Where was that ever shown? The moment her status as a Kingsbird became null and void, she yeeted herself off Zou to help out the crew on her own volition and continues to do whatever she wants on her own volition. She's a complete independent variable. So if she wants to stow away again to seek her adventure or further her goals, she's gonna do it.

From @AvocadoInTheRain
March 8th, 2018

This is only a problem if Luffy's actively recruiting. I think she'll either stow away again or, if that's too similar to Robin, straight up ask to join. That's a dynamic we haven't seen yet in the series. Brook was already asked and the grand fleet thing was extremely official and ritualized, but a character asking to join the crew with the same level of emotion and determination that Luffy usually asks people to join would be interesting.

I've said this many times, this is just the most recent I could find and I know I'm not the only one who has said something along this ballpark.

I don't know why you guys like acting rude towards people who support Carrot as the next nakama and have had their reasons all these years. It's been a fact, in all the years I've spent in this thread, the goalposts have consistently moved against Carrot to promote other people's agendas.

Carrot appearing on Volume 88 alongside the Straw Hats don't mean anything, but Yamato appearing on Volume 100 in a side by side view by Ace does.

Carrot being on merchandise labeled as "The Straw Hat Crew" doesn't mean anything and it was rationalized as the only panel they could get with Jinbe despite the double spread panel on Chapter 989 of the Straw Hats. But Yamato being on a towel line alongside the Straw Hats? Complete confirmation. (I'll find pictures later).

spoiler

Carrot being relied on by Luffy to protect the ship with the other Straw Hats in his stead in Chapter 878 doesn't indicate he views her as a fellow nakama, but Luffy ordering Yamato to protect Momonosuke in Chapter 988 shows she's taking orders from Luffy as a captain. Already nakama!

Like these arguments are exhausting. If you're going to debate, then debate, but some of you guys, you especially, should have learned by now not to count your chickens before they hatch. If people want to debate that Carrot is going to be the last nakama, we can. If Deicide wants to argue that its going to be Hancock, he has every right to. This is a thread to debate such things. Show some respect.
The fuck is this shit?

Do you not even know the proof you’re suppose to provide? lol

A couple random quotes of ppl talking about something else doesn’t matter.

This is what I meant when I said you can’t do it.

It remains consistent from what you said.

No it doesn’t.

Literally go back and reread.

I did. Remains consistent from what you said. People have always said this.

No it doesn’t. You apparently haven’t understood what I e been saying from the beginning and found a way to warp it to w/e you’re replying to now.

Cockycent

I wonder how Pekoms is doing.

Oh yeah, Carrot might join the Straw Hat crew.

Shiebs

If Caribou stowed away on the ship would you guys consider him the next Straw Hat

Ivotas

@Shiebs said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

If Caribou stowed away on the ship would you guys consider him the next Straw Hat

Isn't he already?

Shiebs

@Ivotas I hope so, I wonder where his story is going really though? He’s definitely not actually going to join the crew, I assumed he’d ride with them to the next island and eventually tell whatever person he’s looking for about the ancient weapons but he hasn’t seemed to appear on the ship yet

Ivotas

@Shiebs Ok, I've arbirtrarily decided Caribou is hiding in a barrel and that Carrot is hiding/captured inside him. You heard it here first!

Shiebs

@Ivotas I’m fine with that, he’s done it before

Galleon Panthera

This post is deleted!

Deicide

@Galleon-Panthera Dude, erase that right now.

Galleon Panthera

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Galleon-Panthera Dude, erase that right now.

Oh sorry, I didn't figure out I was doing "that". Thanks for the warning

King Cannon

@Ivotas That ignores the context that Sanji is a character introduced +1000 chapters ago, back in the 90's. He can afford being ignored for some time. Just like how Oda ignored one half of the Straw Hats for 70 or so chapters and then did the same with the other half.

Whereas Carrot is much more recent. You can't just put her in the backburner if she's meant to be a main character, but doesn't have half the screentime of Jinbe yet.

electricmastro

@King-Cannon said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas That ignores the context that Sanji is a character introduced +1000 chapters ago, back in the 90's. He can afford being ignored for some time. Just like how Oda ignored one half of the Straw Hats for 70 or so chapters and then did the same with the other half.

Whereas Carrot is much more recent. You can't just put her in the backburner if she's meant to be a main character, but doesn't have half the screentime of Jinbe yet.

Speaking in general, I think this idea of “it’s too late to have more Straw Hats” is really getting in the way of many conversations as of late. If Luffy is truly never going to have more people on the crew ever again, then these crewmate threads might as well be closed, or else it would come to repeating the same things over and over again I’m sure.

Ivotas

@King-Cannon I said that they are not exactly the same espacially of this situation. Also if we go by the reactions it garnered by readers, I would say that Oda can not really afford to neglect one of his main characters for over a decade. If anything I'd rather say that one good fight against Queen does not make up for a decade of questionable portrayal.

The main point stands. That being that Oda often gets critisized for not handling certain characters or situations better with no reason at all, yet for Carrot we put so much heavy emphasis on this in context of her being a possible candidate to join the crew, her being handled badly by Oda is something that can stand by itself completely outside of the next crewmate discussion.

Not only get's she removed from a possible Nami team up, which have worked better in both characters favor if they'd be the ones to take down Ulti rather than having Linlin do the heavy lifting. She also loses offscreen against Perospero while teaming up with Wanda. To add insult to injury Neko won against Perospero not because he was the stronger more experienced fighter, but because he got lucky with the timing. If that's the only difference Oda could have just aswell given the win to the girls.

This is just a bad handling of the character. I'm not saying she deserves a lot more focus in such a bloated arc. But she deserved better. And the point I'm trying to make here is that is bad overall, not just in the vacuum of the next crewmate discussion. Let's say she really never had any chance of joining the crew, than this portrayal still would be considered a bad handling of the character. Especially if this would be the end of the journey for her.

electricmastro

@danie said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro She won't be returning until the end of the story. i imagine she won't be only crewmate returning home by the end of the story.

I can understand why people got mad over Yamato, because of Oda wasting our time showing various panels of Yamato wanting to sail out and join all for the sake of showing how smarter he is, all for a character that prob will only appear again in the last 10 chapters during the Final War whom Luffy may even barely talk to. Such a disrespectful way to treat manga readers honestly.

onemoment

A depressing thought with Yamato. I think he's basically a Strawhat, and will join the crew, but aren't we nearly the final arc? What if Yamato rejoined the crew, and it's already the last arc? At that point...does joining the crew even matter? Sure, you're technically a Strawhat, but if you don't have the adventures and experience under your belt then who cares? I'm nervous that Yamato might suffer from a terrible coincidence of bad timing.

Also, Carrot stopped being a candidate for Strawhat when she got stomped by an opponent in a handicap fight early in the arc whereas many other fighters stayed up the whole time and even dug deep to push themselves over the line. The fact that Carrot didn't do that seems really damning. It's not about being strong or weak, its that when the battle gets tough the author just saw fit to knock her out and put her aside. That's not main character behavior, and sadly in hindsight it seems like Oda gave Carrot all that spot light years ago just to make a character who'd cry when Pedro died. That's really it, and that's super sad.

Cockycent

Similar to when it was said multiple times "we're at the climax, or implying that WCI arc was almost over, fans started to view that arc as too long and wanted to be done with the arc and get to Wano.

I notice that there is a shift. Now that Wano is over, many are speaking highly of WCI arc, while Wano was a disappointment. There is a connection between being under the impression that something is close to over or they would like to finish it.

Yet, Oda and his team are more than likely saying this in a different way with intentions of coddling the audience who are obviously like "when will it end" at this point.

Last I checked, Brook was beat up by Ryuma and Jinbe was burned by Akainu. I would even question what is the big solo fight Nami won in Orange Town or Arlong Park arcs. If winning some solo fight is criteria, shouldn't it apply to most of the nakama before joining?

Going by this logic, Gin should be a Straw Hat over Sanji.
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onemoment

Winning fights isn't the issue. In those arcs, Brooke and Jimbei got up again, and fought with the rest of the crew until Luffy went down (more or less). Carrot was down long before that, and never really interacted with the rest of the crew again. After the arc ended, she spent most of her time with the other minks. It's completely different treatment. It seems that, in hindsight all her Zou spotlight was meant to build her up for her sad moment in WCI, then it was broken off. It's really messed up, but that seems like the case. Carrot was born to cry for Pedro.

Cockycent

Barely a spotlight in Zou. Achieved what she needed to do in WCI arc. Nami cried and had to watch Luffy fight Arlong. Proving her case even more if anything. Brook watched Zoro defeat Ryuma and ultimately had to watch KLuffy deliver the final blow in TB arc.

This would pull Carrot ahead of actual SH going by this same fighting reasoning.

Ivotas

A completely different point I don't get, which is not an x vs. y character debate is: Why do people value the idea of a character joining the crew at the endpoint of the series so much? Let's say Vivi, Yamato and/or Carrot join either at the climax of the series or after the series conclusing in an "...and they all sailed together for many years to come" kind of way. What's the appeal? Isn't the whole point of them being a Strawhat Pirate for us to see them being part in the adventures of the main cast? I cannot see any value in someone joining this late other than bragging rights.

And no, I'm not pointing fingers at the Yamato supporters here. If for example Carrot would join at the end it would mean nothing to me. Sure it be nice to see her team up with the Strawhats again (as it would be nice to see Yamato and Vivi etc. again). But it would mean nothing to in the sense of witnessing her being part the voyages and adventures of the Strawhat Pirates. If she doesn't actually sail through various adventures which we readers can actually witness, the moniker of Strawhat Pirate is an empty husk. That's why I don't get the appeal of the "she will join much later for sure" argument.

electricmastro

@onemoment said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

A depressing thought with Yamato. I think he's basically a Strawhat, and will join the crew, but aren't we nearly the final arc? What if Yamato rejoined the crew, and it's already the last arc? At that point...does joining the crew even matter? Sure, you're technically a Strawhat, but if you don't have the adventures and experience under your belt then who cares? I'm nervous that Yamato might suffer from a terrible coincidence of bad timing.

Yeah, at the risk of sounding selfish, I didn't care how Wano's defenselessness is brought up or what that crappy Admiral Treebranch did, because Yamato going on and on with the narrative of wanting to be free at sea just to change her mind like that comes off to me as a waste of time. It felt like a waste of time, and I don't like that, because nobody likes their time being wasted, including me, as well as many other people who had to put up with Yamato's pleas to sail and be shown her past as to how much that was kept from her.

That all said, even if Yamato joins in 100 chapters, I'd still be willing to accept her as part of the crew just as much as Zoro and the others are, regardless of time. Even better so long as Oda as willing to invest enough to give her greater purpose and interactions with her own crew that she had deserved for so long.

It really just depends on how much Oda is willing to care and invest in this himself. If it amounts to her time with the crew being worthwhile despite it being the last saga, then fine, but if not, then I can always look back from before her crappy fate in 1057. Nothing that comes after that take away from how cool I thought Yamato was before then, and I'm sure I'll always think so.

Others can feel with what's there is never enough all they want, but I'm sure I'll be content enough for what's there while I'm enjoying the ride.

Shin10 Bukuro

@Ivotas Agreed.

In fact, I would imagine if there is a final crewmember, they will be a previously-established character, and will be reuniting with the Strawhats very soon.

Ivotas

@Shin10-Bukuro
Even then it would feel a bit weird to me if this character does not at least sail one or two island experiencing a regular adventure of facing the unknown, rather than doing endgame stuff where they know exactly where they are going and what it is they are supposed to do.

If Vivi, Yamato or Carrot come back to help fighting the big bad, then they clearly know what they are coming for. A Strawhat adventure to me is more "what lies beyond the horizon?" kind of thing. Jinbe now for the first time experiences this with the crew. Whoever comes back should enjoy this too and not just be like "I came back to fight X opponent on Y island!" That's not the idea of a romantic adventure.

electricmastro

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

A completely different point I don't get, which is not an x vs. y character debate is: Why do people value the idea of a character joining the crew at the endpoint of the series so much? Let's say Vivi, Yamato and/or Carrot join either at the climax of the series or after the series conclusing in an "...and they all sailed together for many years to come" kind of way. What's the appeal? Isn't the whole point of them being a Strawhat Pirate for us to see them being part in the adventures of the main cast? I cannot see any value in someone joining this late other than bragging rights.

And no, I'm not pointing fingers at the Yamato supporters here. If for example Carrot would join at the end it would mean nothing to me. Sure it be nice to see her team up with the Strawhats again (as it would be nice to see Yamato and Vivi etc. again). But it would mean nothing to in the sense of witnessing her being part the voyages and adventures of the Strawhat Pirates. If she doesn't actually sail through various adventures which we readers can actually witness, the moniker of Strawhat Pirate is an empty husk. That's why I don't get the appeal of the "she will join much later for sure" argument.

For me, I guess I just don't short-sight myself so much to the point that I'll deny other people joining the crew "because it's too late." Understanding people want to see more, for me I've just never seen the crew as having a cut off point. Luffy can make friends with anyone anytime he wants, and any relationship he has with the others shouldn't feel any less relevant or less special because of time. One might as well say Brook or Jinbe don't feel as much like Straw Hats because they haven't been there as long as Zoro has and haven't been to Alabasta or Skypiea or Enies Lobby like how he has either.

I guess I don't see crewmates based on time or places or whatever, but ultimately on just how much enjoyment Luffy gets being around them and vice versa.

Ivotas

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

A completely different point I don't get, which is not an x vs. y character debate is: Why do people value the idea of a character joining the crew at the endpoint of the series so much? Let's say Vivi, Yamato and/or Carrot join either at the climax of the series or after the series conclusing in an "...and they all sailed together for many years to come" kind of way. What's the appeal? Isn't the whole point of them being a Strawhat Pirate for us to see them being part in the adventures of the main cast? I cannot see any value in someone joining this late other than bragging rights.

And no, I'm not pointing fingers at the Yamato supporters here. If for example Carrot would join at the end it would mean nothing to me. Sure it be nice to see her team up with the Strawhats again (as it would be nice to see Yamato and Vivi etc. again). But it would mean nothing to in the sense of witnessing her being part the voyages and adventures of the Strawhat Pirates. If she doesn't actually sail through various adventures which we readers can actually witness, the moniker of Strawhat Pirate is an empty husk. That's why I don't get the appeal of the "she will join much later for sure" argument.

For me, I guess I just don't short-sight myself so much to the point that I'll deny other people joining the crew "because it's too late." Understanding people want to see more, for me I've just never seen the crew as having a cut off point. Luffy can make friends with anyone anyone he wants, and any relationship he has with the others shouldn't feel any less relevant or less special because of time. One might as well say Brook or Jinbe don't feel as much like Straw Hats because they haven't been there as long as Zoro has and haven't been to Alabasta or Skypiea or Enies Lobby like how he has either.

I guess I don't see crewmates based on time or places or whatever, but ultimately on just how much enjoyment Luffy gets being around them and vice versa.

I agree that time spent with the crew should not be a factor in this. But that's not what I was takling about since time is a relative factor and we have arcs that last several years which is enough exposure to the audience.

My question was not refering to the "how long?" but rather to the "what?" aspect of having a Strawhat adventure. If we ask what they are doing, then there's a fundamental difference between the crew feeling "where do we go next and what will we encounter there?" and "let's go to X to stop Y from making Z happen!" The former is a romantic adventure facing the unknown. The latter is setting out with a clear objective and destination in mind.

At the end of the day One Piece is a romantic pirate adventure. And if a character finally joins the crew only to provide help in the final battle, then that character whoever it is, pretty much has been denied the exploration part of the voyage and just came to fighting an antagonist.

Wouldn't you want to see Yamato get excited looking at the log pose not knowing what adventure awaits her? I know I would want that for Carrot. But if Yamato, Carrot, Vivi or whoever joins at a point that is past that, then where's the appeal in having the character being labelled a Strawhat Pirate? Sure, it's nice to see them back. But they miss out on the core element of this series, having a romantic adventure and not having an entry number in the Royal Rumble.

electricmastro

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

A completely different point I don't get, which is not an x vs. y character debate is: Why do people value the idea of a character joining the crew at the endpoint of the series so much? Let's say Vivi, Yamato and/or Carrot join either at the climax of the series or after the series conclusing in an "...and they all sailed together for many years to come" kind of way. What's the appeal? Isn't the whole point of them being a Strawhat Pirate for us to see them being part in the adventures of the main cast? I cannot see any value in someone joining this late other than bragging rights.

And no, I'm not pointing fingers at the Yamato supporters here. If for example Carrot would join at the end it would mean nothing to me. Sure it be nice to see her team up with the Strawhats again (as it would be nice to see Yamato and Vivi etc. again). But it would mean nothing to in the sense of witnessing her being part the voyages and adventures of the Strawhat Pirates. If she doesn't actually sail through various adventures which we readers can actually witness, the moniker of Strawhat Pirate is an empty husk. That's why I don't get the appeal of the "she will join much later for sure" argument.

For me, I guess I just don't short-sight myself so much to the point that I'll deny other people joining the crew "because it's too late." Understanding people want to see more, for me I've just never seen the crew as having a cut off point. Luffy can make friends with anyone anyone he wants, and any relationship he has with the others shouldn't feel any less relevant or less special because of time. One might as well say Brook or Jinbe don't feel as much like Straw Hats because they haven't been there as long as Zoro has and haven't been to Alabasta or Skypiea or Enies Lobby like how he has either.

I guess I don't see crewmates based on time or places or whatever, but ultimately on just how much enjoyment Luffy gets being around them and vice versa.

I agree that time spent with the crew should not be a factor in this. But that's not what I was takling about since time is a relative factor and we have arcs that last several years which is enough exposure to the audience.

My question was not refering to the "how long?" but rather to the "what?" aspect of having a Strawhat adventure. If we ask what they are doing, then there's a fundamental difference between the crew feeling "where do we go next and what will we encounter there?" and "let's go to X to stop Y from making Z happen!" The former is a romantic adventure facing the unknown. The latter is setting out with a clear objective and destination in mind.

At the end of the day One Piece is a romantic pirate adventure. And if a character finally joins the crew only to provide help in the final battle, then that character whoever it is, pretty much has been denied the exploration part of the voyage and just came to fighting an antagonist. And I wonder what the appeal of that is if we're talking about labeling them Strawhat Pirates.

Well in Yamato's case, it has been stressed she barely knows anything of the world and wants to explore it arguably as much as he did despite that Wano babysitting setback. So Oda has indeed set-up Yamato with the desire to explore, and that indeed it's up too I'm if he wants to give the satisfaction in fulfilling what he had set-up with Yamato's desire to explore. Maybe she can even explore some places we have already seen in addition to places we missed in Paradise.

So indeed, there's a good opportunity there, and Oda can expand on that as long as he's alive and willing, but if Oda doesn't grab it with Yamato, then I can safely say he has failed to satisfyingly follow-up on what he had set-up with Yamato's exploration.

Ivotas

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

A completely different point I don't get, which is not an x vs. y character debate is: Why do people value the idea of a character joining the crew at the endpoint of the series so much? Let's say Vivi, Yamato and/or Carrot join either at the climax of the series or after the series conclusing in an "...and they all sailed together for many years to come" kind of way. What's the appeal? Isn't the whole point of them being a Strawhat Pirate for us to see them being part in the adventures of the main cast? I cannot see any value in someone joining this late other than bragging rights.

And no, I'm not pointing fingers at the Yamato supporters here. If for example Carrot would join at the end it would mean nothing to me. Sure it be nice to see her team up with the Strawhats again (as it would be nice to see Yamato and Vivi etc. again). But it would mean nothing to in the sense of witnessing her being part the voyages and adventures of the Strawhat Pirates. If she doesn't actually sail through various adventures which we readers can actually witness, the moniker of Strawhat Pirate is an empty husk. That's why I don't get the appeal of the "she will join much later for sure" argument.

For me, I guess I just don't short-sight myself so much to the point that I'll deny other people joining the crew "because it's too late." Understanding people want to see more, for me I've just never seen the crew as having a cut off point. Luffy can make friends with anyone anyone he wants, and any relationship he has with the others shouldn't feel any less relevant or less special because of time. One might as well say Brook or Jinbe don't feel as much like Straw Hats because they haven't been there as long as Zoro has and haven't been to Alabasta or Skypiea or Enies Lobby like how he has either.

I guess I don't see crewmates based on time or places or whatever, but ultimately on just how much enjoyment Luffy gets being around them and vice versa.

I agree that time spent with the crew should not be a factor in this. But that's not what I was takling about since time is a relative factor and we have arcs that last several years which is enough exposure to the audience.

My question was not refering to the "how long?" but rather to the "what?" aspect of having a Strawhat adventure. If we ask what they are doing, then there's a fundamental difference between the crew feeling "where do we go next and what will we encounter there?" and "let's go to X to stop Y from making Z happen!" The former is a romantic adventure facing the unknown. The latter is setting out with a clear objective and destination in mind.

At the end of the day One Piece is a romantic pirate adventure. And if a character finally joins the crew only to provide help in the final battle, then that character whoever it is, pretty much has been denied the exploration part of the voyage and just came to fighting an antagonist. And I wonder what the appeal of that is if we're talking about labeling them Strawhat Pirates.

Well in Yamato's case, it has been stressed she barely knows anything of the world and wants to explore it arguably as much as he did despite that Wano babysitting setback. So Oda has indeed set-up Yamato with the desire to explore, and that indeed it's up too I'm if he wants to give the satisfaction in fulfilling what he had set-up with Yamato's desire to explore. Maybe she can even explore some places we have already seen in addition to places we missed in Paradise.

So indeed, there's a good opportunity there, and Oda can expand on that as long as he's alive and willing, but if Oda doesn't grab it with Yamato, then I can safely say he has failed to satisfyingly follow-up on what he had set-up with Yamato's exploration.

And that's exactly what I'm saying. If just IF the point where Yamato joins is past the exploration phase, what would be the appeal of having her be called a Strawhat Pirate? I'm not saying it's set in stone it would be that late. I'm asking where the appeal is if. And if you say, that you'd feel Oda has failed in such a case then we pretty much agree that there's not really an appeal in having her labelled as a Strawhat Pirate.

ShinmenTakezo

My Bonney prediction a decade ago might come true after all, i had given it up when Yamato seemed like a done deal (which should have been)..

electricmastro

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

A completely different point I don't get, which is not an x vs. y character debate is: Why do people value the idea of a character joining the crew at the endpoint of the series so much? Let's say Vivi, Yamato and/or Carrot join either at the climax of the series or after the series conclusing in an "...and they all sailed together for many years to come" kind of way. What's the appeal? Isn't the whole point of them being a Strawhat Pirate for us to see them being part in the adventures of the main cast? I cannot see any value in someone joining this late other than bragging rights.

And no, I'm not pointing fingers at the Yamato supporters here. If for example Carrot would join at the end it would mean nothing to me. Sure it be nice to see her team up with the Strawhats again (as it would be nice to see Yamato and Vivi etc. again). But it would mean nothing to in the sense of witnessing her being part the voyages and adventures of the Strawhat Pirates. If she doesn't actually sail through various adventures which we readers can actually witness, the moniker of Strawhat Pirate is an empty husk. That's why I don't get the appeal of the "she will join much later for sure" argument.

For me, I guess I just don't short-sight myself so much to the point that I'll deny other people joining the crew "because it's too late." Understanding people want to see more, for me I've just never seen the crew as having a cut off point. Luffy can make friends with anyone anyone he wants, and any relationship he has with the others shouldn't feel any less relevant or less special because of time. One might as well say Brook or Jinbe don't feel as much like Straw Hats because they haven't been there as long as Zoro has and haven't been to Alabasta or Skypiea or Enies Lobby like how he has either.

I guess I don't see crewmates based on time or places or whatever, but ultimately on just how much enjoyment Luffy gets being around them and vice versa.

I agree that time spent with the crew should not be a factor in this. But that's not what I was takling about since time is a relative factor and we have arcs that last several years which is enough exposure to the audience.

My question was not refering to the "how long?" but rather to the "what?" aspect of having a Strawhat adventure. If we ask what they are doing, then there's a fundamental difference between the crew feeling "where do we go next and what will we encounter there?" and "let's go to X to stop Y from making Z happen!" The former is a romantic adventure facing the unknown. The latter is setting out with a clear objective and destination in mind.

At the end of the day One Piece is a romantic pirate adventure. And if a character finally joins the crew only to provide help in the final battle, then that character whoever it is, pretty much has been denied the exploration part of the voyage and just came to fighting an antagonist. And I wonder what the appeal of that is if we're talking about labeling them Strawhat Pirates.

Well in Yamato's case, it has been stressed she barely knows anything of the world and wants to explore it arguably as much as he did despite that Wano babysitting setback. So Oda has indeed set-up Yamato with the desire to explore, and that indeed it's up too I'm if he wants to give the satisfaction in fulfilling what he had set-up with Yamato's desire to explore. Maybe she can even explore some places we have already seen in addition to places we missed in Paradise.

So indeed, there's a good opportunity there, and Oda can expand on that as long as he's alive and willing, but if Oda doesn't grab it with Yamato, then I can safely say he has failed to satisfyingly follow-up on what he had set-up with Yamato's exploration.

And that's exactly what I'm saying. If just IF the point where Yamato joins is past the exploration phase, what would be the appeal of having her be called a Strawhat Pirate? I'm not saying it's set in stone it would be that late. I'm asking where the appeal is if. And if you say, that you'd feel Oda has failed in such a case then we pretty much agree that there's not really an appeal in having her labelled as a Strawhat Pirate.

I'd see appeal in her interactions and fights alongside the others, which could also satisfy me.

Ivotas

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Ivotas said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

A completely different point I don't get, which is not an x vs. y character debate is: Why do people value the idea of a character joining the crew at the endpoint of the series so much? Let's say Vivi, Yamato and/or Carrot join either at the climax of the series or after the series conclusing in an "...and they all sailed together for many years to come" kind of way. What's the appeal? Isn't the whole point of them being a Strawhat Pirate for us to see them being part in the adventures of the main cast? I cannot see any value in someone joining this late other than bragging rights.

And no, I'm not pointing fingers at the Yamato supporters here. If for example Carrot would join at the end it would mean nothing to me. Sure it be nice to see her team up with the Strawhats again (as it would be nice to see Yamato and Vivi etc. again). But it would mean nothing to in the sense of witnessing her being part the voyages and adventures of the Strawhat Pirates. If she doesn't actually sail through various adventures which we readers can actually witness, the moniker of Strawhat Pirate is an empty husk. That's why I don't get the appeal of the "she will join much later for sure" argument.

For me, I guess I just don't short-sight myself so much to the point that I'll deny other people joining the crew "because it's too late." Understanding people want to see more, for me I've just never seen the crew as having a cut off point. Luffy can make friends with anyone anyone he wants, and any relationship he has with the others shouldn't feel any less relevant or less special because of time. One might as well say Brook or Jinbe don't feel as much like Straw Hats because they haven't been there as long as Zoro has and haven't been to Alabasta or Skypiea or Enies Lobby like how he has either.

I guess I don't see crewmates based on time or places or whatever, but ultimately on just how much enjoyment Luffy gets being around them and vice versa.

I agree that time spent with the crew should not be a factor in this. But that's not what I was takling about since time is a relative factor and we have arcs that last several years which is enough exposure to the audience.

My question was not refering to the "how long?" but rather to the "what?" aspect of having a Strawhat adventure. If we ask what they are doing, then there's a fundamental difference between the crew feeling "where do we go next and what will we encounter there?" and "let's go to X to stop Y from making Z happen!" The former is a romantic adventure facing the unknown. The latter is setting out with a clear objective and destination in mind.

At the end of the day One Piece is a romantic pirate adventure. And if a character finally joins the crew only to provide help in the final battle, then that character whoever it is, pretty much has been denied the exploration part of the voyage and just came to fighting an antagonist. And I wonder what the appeal of that is if we're talking about labeling them Strawhat Pirates.

Well in Yamato's case, it has been stressed she barely knows anything of the world and wants to explore it arguably as much as he did despite that Wano babysitting setback. So Oda has indeed set-up Yamato with the desire to explore, and that indeed it's up too I'm if he wants to give the satisfaction in fulfilling what he had set-up with Yamato's desire to explore. Maybe she can even explore some places we have already seen in addition to places we missed in Paradise.

So indeed, there's a good opportunity there, and Oda can expand on that as long as he's alive and willing, but if Oda doesn't grab it with Yamato, then I can safely say he has failed to satisfyingly follow-up on what he had set-up with Yamato's exploration.

And that's exactly what I'm saying. If just IF the point where Yamato joins is past the exploration phase, what would be the appeal of having her be called a Strawhat Pirate? I'm not saying it's set in stone it would be that late. I'm asking where the appeal is if. And if you say, that you'd feel Oda has failed in such a case then we pretty much agree that there's not really an appeal in having her labelled as a Strawhat Pirate.

I'd see appeal in her interactions and fights alongside the others, which could also satisfy me.

Appealing as this is, one does not need to be a Strawhat Pirate to do that. Many others have fought with and for the Strawhats without being part of the crew. At which point the question still remains what the appeal is to be labeled a Strawhat Pirate when all a character does is things that other non-Strawhat characters have done too.

As I said before, this has nothing to do with being in the Yamato or Carrot camp. This has to do with doing the character justice. And if Yamato is a Strawhat Pirate but we ever see her do under Luffy's flag, I'd consider it a huge slap to her face.