Indecision 2016 - In Soviet Russia, we elect american president!

[Ubiq]

Hard to believe it's already been three years since the last Presidential Election; last time we had a 200+ page thread so let's see what this debacle will bring.

The first debate for the Republican Party candidates will happen in a few days so this is as good a time to start as any. Plus it'll take some of the stress off of the Random News thread.

Keep it civil, folks.

For now, let's meet the candidates.

First up, for the Democratic Party:

Who - Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Who? - Seriously?
Strengths - Name recognition, tons of political experience and connections, and Aura of Inevitability after the last election.
Weaknesses - Voter fatigue before the election has even happened.
Why: She pulled into the lead on Super Tuesday and never lost it.

And now, the Republican Party. There were no less than seventeen announced candidates but the one to actually wind up driving the Clown Car is no less than Donald Trump.

Who - Donald Trump
Who? - Businessman, reality show TV star, walking hairpiece.
Strengths - Name recognition. Has a knack for saying things that gets media attention.
Weaknesses - Just because people know who he is, doesn't mean that they like him. The GOP establishment hates him.
Why - A weak field and winner-take-all states let him build a massive lead early on. Indiana sealed things up.

! Dropped out:
! Democratic Party
!
! Who - Jim Webb
Who? - Former Senator from Virginia and Secretary of the Navy.
Strengths - Political moderate, military experience.
Weaknesses - Same problem as everybody who isn't Hillary or Sanders. Being in the military doesn't pull voters like it used to.
When: 10/20/2015
Why: No traction at all and no funding. Considered an independent run but decided against it.
! Who - Lincoln Chafee.
Who? - Former Senator from and Governor of Rhode Island; Chafee used to be part of the Republican Party and eventually left the party after losing to Sheldon Whitehouse in 2007. He ran for Governor of Rhode Island as an Independent and switched to the Democratic Party in 2013.
Strengths - Track record of working with both parties, voters like Governors.
Weaknesses - Less name recognition than the other candidates.
When: 10/23/2015
Why: Like Webb, no traction and no funding.
! Who - Martin O' Malley
Who? - Former Mayor of Baltimore and Governor of Maryland.
Strengths - Again, voters like Governors and has strong liberal credentials.
Weaknesses - Same as Chafee really though with the additional problem of the next candidate preventing him from grabbing headlines by running to the left of Clinton. Seems more like Veep material than anything else.
When: 02/01/2016
Why: Finished third in the Iowa caucus, which sounds respectable until you find out he got 0.5% of the total votes.
! Who - Bernie Sanders
Who? - Socialist Senator from Vermont that is running as a Democrat.
Strengths - Dedicated core of volunteers and gets media attention by running to the left of Clinton.
Weaknesses - Big money donors are terrified of him.
When: 06/06/2016
Why: Hasn't dropped out yet but Clinton reached the necessary number of delegates and superdelegates to clinch the nomination.
! Never actually announced:
! Who - Joe Biden
Who? - Seriously?
Strengths - Sitting Vice President, fairly well liked by voters.
Weaknesses - Has a tendency to say things without thinking them through.
When: 10/21/2015
Why: Age, family issues, and the fact that this race just didn't really offer him many opportunities.
! Republican Party
!
! Who - Rick Perry
Who? - Former Governor of Texas
Strengths - Name recognition and strong conservative credentials. Former Guv'nor.
Weaknesses - His 2012 primary performance was pretty terrible. His 2016 pre-primary performance was worse.
When: 09/11/2015
Why: Little support in polls and less from donors.
! Who - Scott Walker
Who? - Governor of Wisconsin
Strengths - Wealthy patrons in the Koch Brothers; strong conservative credentials. Guv'nor.
Weaknesses - Not particularly well liked even in his own state. Having tons of money works better on the state level than the national one.
When: 09/21/2015
Why: Mediocre debate showings and being unlikable meant little support and less money.
! Who - Bobby Jindal
Who? - Governor of Louisiana
Strengths - Strong conservative credentials. Voters yadda, yadda, yadda Governors.
Weaknesses - His ethnicity and religion might be a tough sell to certain elements of the GOP. Probably best known outside of Louisiana for a disastrous response to the State of the Union address.
When: 11/17/2015
Why: Terrible poll numbers meant that he could never leave the kid's table debates. No funding as a result.
! Who - Lindsay Graham
Who? - Senator from South Carolina
Strengths - Hawkish policies will be liked by GOP. Has a decent bipartisan record.
Weaknesses - Disliked by Tea Party.
When: 12/21/2015
Why: Poor poll numbers and pretty much stuck being the lone sane man on foreign policy (relatively speaking) in a race ever to the right.
! Who - George Pataki
Who? - Former Governor of New York
Strengths - Actually won on a state level in New York as a Republican. Also 9/11.
Weaknesses - Pataki is running?
When: 12/30/2015
Why: Pataki was running for President?
! Who - Mike Huckabee
Who? - Former Governor of Arkansas
Strengths - Decent name recognition, credentials as religious conservative will help in primaries. Governors etc.
Weaknesses - Lacks appeal outside of religious conservatives; threw away fairly good reputation as moderate in pursuit of that crowd.
When: 02/01/2016
Why: Finished in eighth place in the Iowa Caucus and his potential base has been sucked up by other candidates.
! Who - Rand Paul
Who? - Senator from Kentucky, son of Ron Paul.
Strengths - Tea Party darling.
Weaknesses - Pretty much fallen off the face of the Earth because of other candidates, particularly Trump, poaching his support base.
When: 02/03/2016
Why: Finished low in the Iowa Caucus, but, more importantly, has a challenger for the GOP Primary for his Senate seat.
! Who - Rick Santorum
Who? - Former Senator from Pennsylvania.
Strengths - Conservative credentials.
Weaknesses - Name recognition. Make sure you search his full name if you want information about the actual guy. Poor track record in Presidential primaries.
When: 02/03/2016
Why: Poor showing in Iowa, which he won in 2012. His base has went for other candidates.
! Who - Carly Fiorina
Who? - Former CEO of Hewlett-Packard
Strengths - Business experience is a plus for many Republicans.
Weaknesses - No real political experience; ran a disastrous campaign for Senator of California against Barbara Boxer in 2010.
When: 02/10/2016
Why: Bad showings in Iowa and New Hampshire, left out of the pre-New Hampshire debate, and unlikely to make any of the other debates as well.
! Who - Chris Christie
Who? - Governor of New Jersey
Strengths - Fairly well known; aggressive with reporters. Blahblahblah Govenors.
Weaknesses - Nobody really likes him that much anymore; his polling numbers are terrible and he has a ton of baggage because of scandals in office.
When: 02/10/2016
Why: Like Fiorina, didn't do well in first few states and has been polling poorly anyway.
! Who - Jim Gilmore
Who? - Former Governor of Virginia.
Strengths - Moderate Republican; seems to be positioning himself as the "Adult in the Room".
Weaknesses - Announced really, really late, which hurt his chances of getting into first debate and all of the rest of them as it turned out.
When: 02/12/2016
Why: Zero support.
! Who - Jeb Bush
Who? - Former Governor of Florida. Son of George H.W. Bush and brother of George W. Bush.
Strengths - Name recognition, moderate Republican, and voters like Governors.
Weaknesses - The primary voters don't want moderates, tends to say things that will be used against him, and name recognition.
When: 02/20/2016
Why: Poor showings in all three contests to date, gaffes galore, and his support went elsewhere.
! Who - Ben Carson
Who? - Neurosurgeon. Gained attention for speech at National Prayer Breakfast.
Strengths - Religious conservative.
Weaknesses - No real political accomplishments. Will have a lot of competition from better known, better funded rivals.
When: 03/04/2016
Why: Nonsensical statements, most of his potential support went to Cruz, and possibly slept through several debates.
! Who - Marco Rubio
Who? - Senator from Florida.
Strengths - Tea Party darling.
Weaknesses - His thunder has been stolen by other candidates; best known for looking like a water-sipping deer in headlights during a response to the SotU.
When: 03/15/2016
Why: His campaign never recovered from him being eviscerated by Christie in a debate and from there was a downwards spiral culminating in his loss in Florida.
! Who - Ted Cruz
Who? - Senator from Texas
Strengths - Diehard conservative that has gotten a lot of attention recently.
Weaknesses - Most of that attention hasn't been positive. Also announced early and was hammered by rivals from the start.
When: 05/03/2016
Why: Performed terribly in Northeastern primaries and lost the winner-take-all state of Indiana.
! Who - John Kasich
Who? - Governor of Ohio
Strengths - Second verse, same as the first. Lengthy political career.
Weaknesses - Angered Tea Party with Medicaid expansion; his campaign is just sort of there so far.
When: 05/04/2016
Why: Indiana basically made Trump the inevitable nominee.

[Pachylad]

200+ page thread? Strange, just went to check and it's only 120 pages. Unless you're using a different post-page layout?

Anyway, only Democrats I recognise are Hilary Clinton (because of being bombarded by right-wing news sites trying to flame her on my FB feed lulzy lulz) and Bernie Sanders (shout out to my American friends on FB for talking about him - he seems hella cool!). Republicans… yeah I don't wanna talk about it (but I probably will anyway, thanks mom and dad >_>).

Also, let's see if we can get a CaptainKid for this particular season NIHLISTIC APATHETIC IGNORANCE HERE WE GOOOOOOO:

@CaptainKid:

I'm home for the week and my parents won't shut up about me voting. God forbid I tell them I literally don't like either of the candidates. If I have to watch another 30minutes of Fox News I'm going to hang myself. On a sidenote, I also realized arguing politics is much harder to do intensely when the person you are trying to argue with is a very attractive girl in your apartment. LOL!

[NateRich]

Time really does fly by; Obama is already six and a half years in. I'm looking forward to seeing who comes out of the Republican Party so I plan to actually pay attention to debates this go-round

[Monkey King]

You forgot to mention "SMARTY PANTS BOOK READIN' GLASSES" under Rick Perry's strengths.

[Johnny B. Decent]

Didn't Lindsey Graham say if he became President, he would have the army overthrow Congress or some such crazy talk?

[Nobodyman]

[Jabberwok]

About six or seven Republican candidates are about to lose whatever minimal momentum they might've had once the first debate takes place, since Fox is taking only the top ten candidates according to media polls. The remaining candidates will be sent to the little kids table to have their own debate. Maybe one or two come out of that exile while the rest end their campaigns early. Here's the presumptive standings: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/four-republicans-are-on-the-bubble-to-get-into-the-first-debate/

So, of the candidates likely to be excluded, which would like to see stay in the race most?

[Robby]

I just want Trump to go the distance, or eventually go third party. he'll be entertaining AND have no chance of winning.

[Pachylad]

@Ubiq:

Who - Rick Santorum
Who? - Former Senator from Pennsylvania.
Strengths - Conservative credentials.
Weaknesses - Name recognition. Make sure you search his full name if you want information about the actual guy. Poor track record in Presidential primaries.

oh man can't believe I missed this ahahahaha you Savage man, Dan.

[Cyan D. Funk]

Fantasy Fox Debate Roster:

• Jeb
• Mike Huckabee
• Ben Carson
• Lindsay Graham
• Bobby Jindal
• Ted Cruz
• Scott Walker
• Rand Paul
• Rick Santorum
• Donald Trump

[y2kyle89]

I'm rooting for Bernie myself but my vote will ultimately be against whoever comes out on top of the clown car

[Kaiolino]

I thought Sanders was a social democrat and not a socialist.

[Outerspec]

I'm actually really interested in Bernie Sanders and hope to hear more from him in the upcoming months. I hope he goes the distance.

[Rogues' Gallery]

Oh, is it that time already for the first Republican debate?

[Silverblade]

Two women and a black person to eighteen white men and a single Bobby Jindal.

That is kind of too XX century of you, USA.

[Pachylad]

Carson and Jindal are pretty much the GOP's "token best friends" aren't they.

[Monkey King]

@Kaiolino:

I thought Sanders was a social democrat and not a socialist.

He's a Vermont version of whatever term you want to throw on it.
Vermont, a state perpetually playing Neil Young songs somewhere in the background (not even kidding).

[Pachylad]

@Monkey:

Vermont, a state perpetually playing Neil Young songs somewhere in the background (not even kidding).

Holy shit, you really weren't kidding o___o

[Rogues' Gallery]

[MetaMario]

Gonna be a crazy ride ahead of us, folks.

[Smudger]

It'd be great if we could have some form of analysis/simulation of what would be expected to happen if each candidate came into power.

Trump would be entertaining for all the wrong reasons.

[Rogues' Gallery]

@Smudger:

Trump would be entertaining for all the wrong reasons.

:ninja:

[Green_vs_Red]

@Smudger:

It'd be great if we could have some form of analysis/simulation of what would be expected to happen if each candidate came into power.

• Repeal the Affordable Care Act.
• Repeal Dodd-Frank.
• Sign various laws stripping Planned Parenthood of funding.
• Sign laws limiting or outright banning abortion.
• Sign laws punishing safe haven states.
• Restore the Bush Tax Cuts.
• Scheme of starting another war somewhere on the map
• Gut voting rights even more at the federal level.
• Come up with a radical idea of trying to get rid of the 11 million immigrants in this country.
• Add to the deficit instead of lowering it.
• Stroke Israel's ego.
• Privatize Social Security
• Cut funding for programs like Welfare
• Shut down or screw over agencies like the uh…...(Rick Perry reference) EPA.
• Some saber rattling on A constitutional amendment banning Gay Marriage.

All these things would never happen of course. But no one has ever faulted Republicans for going through the motions.

[Robby]

I like Bernie Sanders. Its just a shame Hillary has been the presumed runner for so long that there's just not much contest… and they're both too old to run again after this run.

Society's only now catching up to Bernie who shoulda been someone thirty years ago.

@Green_vs_Red:

All these things would never happen of course. But no one has ever faulted Republicans for going through the motions.

It annoys me. Half the country is republican and is fairly neutral and things. Obviously you cant just dismiss that much of the population as wrong. But yeesh, some of the stuff being thrown around at the top is just awful.

I know nobody is a one issue voter, buut you'd really think at least a few of those things would just destroy their base.

[Green_vs_Red]

^ It would it their base were smart enough to realize how most of the what they want to do will hurt them and benefit the republicans and their interest groups (somehow). Then when things go south blame a variety sources that aren't at fault instead of owning up to their mistakes.

[Jabberwok]

It seems to me like Republicans are split between appealing to a broader (and therefore more moderate) base, specifically Latinos and young people, and pandering to the most vocal and dedicated wing of the GOP, the Tea Party. Since the primary process is dominated by dedicated party members through lower overall turnout, candidates have to either pander to the galvanized extremists or have enough name recognition and funding to barrel through anyway.

To a lesser extent this holds true for Democrats, though I'd say that since there are more third parties that appeal to extreme leftists the mainstream party is less dominated by them.

[Ekila]

The one I'm most interested is Bernie Sanders since he seems to have similar beliefs as I do. The rest I don't really care about at the moment. Though I probably never vote Republican, but I would vote for a third party if I thought they were interesting enough. (Last election, I voted for Gary Johnson.)

[Smudger]

@Joey:

but I would vote for a third party if I thought they were interesting enough. (Last election, I voted for Gary Johnson.)

The biggest issue faced with a large portion of the population is the idea of a wasted vote.

Sadly most of us…. wherever we are from, have two main parties that will get into power, meaning its more about picking the lesser of two evils until it's at a breaking point that allows a better third party to infiltrate the inner voting circle.

This happened in England during the last votes. The only difference is both main parties were willing to adopt a few views/objectives from lesser competition in the aims of stealing votes which allowed one side to narrowly clinch a win. While this for some people seems like a small victory, the points adopted get slept under the rug and ignored. This was again most apparent when looking at UKIP's thunder being partially stolen by the conservative party.

[Monkey King]

@Jabberwok:

It seems to me like Republicans are split between appealing to a broader (and therefore more moderate) base, specifically Latinos and young people, and pandering to the most vocal and dedicated wing of the GOP, the Tea Party. Since the primary process is dominated by dedicated party members through lower overall turnout, candidates have to either pander to the galvanized extremists or have enough name recognition and funding to barrel through anyway.

To a lesser extent this holds true for Democrats, though I'd say that since there are more third parties that appeal to extreme leftists the mainstream party is less dominated by them.

All those extreme leftist third parties such as

[Jabberwok]

@Monkey:

All those extreme leftist third parties such as

The Green Party, Communist Party, and assorted Socialist parties, for instance, though I suppose that there are a similar number of libertarian parties on the opposite end.

The other option is that Democrats are just more sane but I didn't want to say that outright.

[Ekila]

@Smudger:

The biggest issue faced with a large portion of the population is the idea of a wasted vote.

Yeah, that is kinda annoying how many people think like that. I mean of course a candidate will lose if no one votes for them. But if they look past their logic, then they would realize that if more people voted for said person, that person can actually win. AKA a third party in this example.

@Smudger:

Sadly most of us…. wherever we are from, have two main parties that will get into power, meaning its more about picking the lesser of two evils until it's at a breaking point that allows a better third party to infiltrate the inner voting circle.

Ah, I see. I just vote for who I think be good, and all that. Like in this case with Bernie Sanders running for the Democrat Party here in the United States. I actually agree with most of his policies. (The ones I've heard so far anyway, like raising the minimum wage to a good enough amount that people could actually live on.) So, in my case, I'm voting for who I think is best. But I do understand what you mean by the lesser of two evils tidbit.

@Smudger:

This happened in England during the last votes. The only difference is both main parties were willing to adopt a few views/objectives from lesser competition in the aims of stealing votes which allowed one side to narrowly clinch a win. While this for some people seems like a small victory, the points adopted get slept under the rug and ignored. This was again most apparent when looking at UKIP's thunder being partially stolen by the conservative party.

Oh, I see, interesting. And I didn't know England had two main parties. I thought they had like five main ones, or something similar. (Or maybe I'm mis-remembering o.o)

[Jabberwok]

@Ekila:

Oh, I see, interesting. And I didn't know England had two main parties. I thought they had like five main ones, or something similar. (Or maybe I'm mis-remembering o.o)

The U.K. has two main parties, the Labour and the Conservative, but usually neither is big enough to control and outright majority of Parliament. They usually have to ally with a number of smaller parties, from medium-sized parties like the Scottish National Party to parties with only one or two representatives like UKIP or the Green Party, in order to form coalitions. That said, the Conservative Party currently holds a rare majority of Parliament.

[Kaiolino]

I thought coalitions were very rare in the UK. The Conservative/LibDem coalition was an anomaly.

[Monkey King]

@Jabberwok:

The Green Party,

So extreme wow yeah.

Communist Party, and assorted Socialist parties,

I'm sorry I thought we were talking about third parties that actually register a blip or more on the polls and in votes.
Not veritable perennial candidate level non-entities.

for instance, though I suppose that there are a similar number of libertarian parties on the opposite end.

What even is your definition of extreme.

[Ekila]

@Jabberwok:

The U.K. has two main parties, the Labour and the Conservative, but usually neither is big enough to control and outright majority of Parliament. They usually have to ally with a number of smaller parties, from medium-sized parties like the Scottish National Party to parties with only one or two representatives like UKIP or the Green Party, in order to form coalitions. That said, the Conservative Party currently holds a rare majority of Parliament.

That's really interesting. It's way different over there than here. And I'm guessing the Labour party is the "liberal" party like Democrat in the United States?

And thanks for explaining too! :3

[Shandian]

Seems kinda boring election… Don't want to see Hillary win...Joe Biden could be decent choise, Bernie Sanders also seems kinda nice.

I kinda wish that Trump have a success on preliminaries...at least it would make elections much more electric. Hillary will have 100% success against Trump because she is half moderate republican herself on some values.

[Smudger]

@Ekila:

Yeah, that is kinda annoying how many people think like that. I mean of course a candidate will lose if no one votes for them. But if they look past their logic, then they would realize that if more people voted for said person, that person can actually win. AKA a third party in this example.

This can happen, but the predicted results from early on in the election gives a rough indication whether or not it's possible.

The most annoying thing I've seen is the mass amount of elderly votes based on this dated mentality some of them have, which treats their party more like a football team, and will continue to vote and support regardless of the issues they want to tackle. Loyalty outweighs common sense!

I didn't even know this existed to such an extent till recently.

Oh, I see, interesting. And I didn't know England had two main parties. I thought they had like five main ones, or something similar. (Or maybe I'm mis-remembering o.o)

Labour and conservatives. Though the last election seemed to bring the rise of a few more parties that are showing promising futures.

[Ekila]

@Smudger:

This can happen, but the predicted results from early on in the election gives a rough indication whether or not it's possible.

The most annoying thing I've seen is the mass amount of elderly votes based on this dated mentality some of them have, which treats their party more like a football team, and will continue to vote and support regardless of the issues they want to tackle. Loyalty outweighs common sense!

Oh wow. I know here in the United States, that's how a lot of people seem to see elections. Voting for their favorite "team", not caring what the person says, etc. It's not just old, but young ones too. Kinda sucks at times. At least in the U.K, other parties have at least a chance to win, it seems.

@Smudger:

I didn't even know this existed to such an extent till recently.
Labour and conservatives. Though the last election seemed to bring the rise of a few more parties that are showing promising futures.

I gotcha. And that's good as well. (In reference of the new parties that are showing promising futures.)

[Jabberwok]

@Monkey:

So extreme wow yeah.

I'm sorry I thought we were talking about third parties that actually register a blip or more on the polls and in votes.
Not veritable perennial candidate level non-entities.

What even is your definition of extreme.

I never said they made a difference. We don't have notable third parties in the US, just third-party candidates.

And more extreme as in the members are generally more liberal or conservative than either of the two main parties. Not actually extremist, since no one pays attention to those loons anyways. At least, no one used to.

[Jabberwok]

So Lindsey Graham and Ricks Perry and Santorum are all pretty much assured to miss out on the major debate. I'm hoping they end up desperately overcompensating in the JV match.

[wolfwood]

@Green_vs_Red:

• Repeal the Affordable Care Act.
• Repeal Dodd-Frank.
• Sign various laws stripping Planned Parenthood of funding.
• Sign laws limiting or outright banning abortion.
• Sign laws punishing safe haven states.
• Restore the Bush Tax Cuts.
• Scheme of starting another war somewhere on the map
• Gut voting rights even more at the federal level.
  - Come up with a radical idea of trying to get rid of the 11 million immigrants in this country.
• Add to the deficit instead of lowering it.
• Stroke Israel's ego.
• Privatize Social Security
• Cut funding for programs like Welfare
• Shut down or screw over agencies like the uh…...(Rick Perry reference) EPA.
• Some saber rattling on A constitutional amendment banning Gay Marriage.

All these things would never happen of course. But no one has ever faulted Republicans for going through the motions.

Huh. So there's only about 11 million illegal immigrants in the US.

Not that it ain't alot. Just figured there would be way more than that.

[Green_vs_Red]

It's a rough estimate I constantly seen thrown around.

[Ubiq]

The debate list is out.

Donald Trump
Jeb Bush
Scott Walker
Mike Huckabee
Ben Carson
Ted Cruz
Marco Rubio
Rand Paul
Chris Christie
John Kasich

[Green_vs_Red]

@Ubiq:

The debate list is out.

Donald Trump
Jeb Bush
Scott Walker
Mike Huckabee
Ben Carson
Ted Cruz
Marco Rubio
Rand Paul
Chris Christie
John Kasich

The list is out and so are Pataki, Perry, Santorum, & Graham I actually though Christie would be in there too considering he's another guy like the four above who the party's forgotten.

[Pachylad]

Oooooh Carson to give us some interesting insight as an ex-neurosurgeon into how- wait, nevermind.

[taboo]

@Monkey:

All those extreme leftist third parties such as

the tumblr party

!

[Crossword]

I'm so glad I have Thursday off.

[taboo]

[Ubiq]

@Green_vs_Red:

The list is out and so are Pataki, Perry, Santorum, & Graham I actually though Christie would be in there too considering he's another guy like the four above who the party's forgotten.

The lower threshold for making the debate had to be something like 3% support since Trump, Bush, and Walker are pretty consistently the only candidates in double digits and Huckabee is around 6%.

@taboo:

[qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLgNCh_UsAAvCsU.png[/qimg]

Trumpelstilkskin?

[G8trH8tr]

Why you guys hate Trump? He's just an average dude who probably would do a better job than all the corrupt morons.