^this.Also to add the same thing happened to Gin when he was madly obsessed with Don Krieg, but at the end he got over it and moved on, Even Gin "tried" to betray Sanji and the straw hats.
Wasted opportunities of One Piece
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^this.Also to add the same thing happened to Gin when he was madly obsessed with Don Krieg, but at the end he got over it and moved on, Even Gin "tried" to betray Sanji and the straw hats.
It's similar, but Gin was devoted to Don Krieg out of pure fear. With Bellamy, you can tell it's cause he idolizes Doffy to an extreme degree. There's definitely a little fear in there, cause of how Doffy had Sarkies beat him down, but after Doffy left Bellamy could have just went and lived his own life. Instead he takes the gold pillar to Doffy (say, where is that gold pillar on Dressrosa, anyway?) just to get back in his good graces. Dude's obsessed.
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FI was the biggest "wasted opportunity" but hopefully one day they go back and actually have a proper arc there (Poseidon, Noah, Luffy destroying the island, etc.)
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Fishman Island was not a wasted opportunity what else could Oda have made Luffy and Co do there. If Luffy and his crew got beat up by Hody and his crew than what would have happened to Luffy against his fight with Ceaser or Doffy he would stand no chance against them.
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Well Oda has hyped FI for many years when the purpose of this arc was to show how overpowered are the strawhats after the Time Skip. Again they might come back to FI since Luffy is in Shirley's vision. Unless it's a rubber clone.:blink:
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I was certainly disgusted with Fishman Island. The level of build up to it had me quite excited, and shattered my expectations entirely.
I'm sure I'm not the only one.
We were finally about to see this almost unreachable, mystical place beneath the ocean depths. The ship had to be coated in a special veneer just to travel to it, and due to the time skip, that prolonged the journey even more. It whet the appetite.
What would it be like? Who would they meet there? One Piece has always, at the core, been about exploration and adventure. Now, this was to be a grand spectacle.
The cheerful and uplifting reunion at Sabaody gave me such hope. The dive beneath the ocean seemed as though the story may end right there and then – But, it didn't. Luffy tamed the Kraken, they witnessed all that wreckage at the bottom of the ocean, and they almost didn't even make it past the veritable front gates of Fishman Island, as I recall. Quite the adventure.
Then, they arrived. At this point, one's appetite began to lessen. The roller coaster started to traverse downward at a rapid pace.
While I enjoyed the character of Vander Decken, who was a classic Oda type, I wasn't in the least bit impressed by Hody, or his motley crew. To skip directly to the point, I am more than familiar with the methods of displaying power in shonen manga, but to have Hody -- This super-powered steroid fuelled savage racially hateful monster -- Get his arse handed to him on a coral platter makes him almost lesser as a potential threat than Foxy, of all villains.
I understand the timeskip needed to be justified by some form of outright victory, but in my eyes, this was not the way. To use a Dragon Ball formula, think of the future version of Trunks easily dispatching a cybernetic, powered up version of Freezer. Freezer was a current, singular villain that had presented a massive threat to the protagonist in the previous arc. To have a new character slice him into pieces, in an ascended form none the less, displayed how powerful this new character was so that even a child could fathom it.
He eviscerated a villain that had been quite a severe challenge with absolute ease. We knew all about Freezer due to the heavy focus upon his character that we'd invested in beforehand. Nobody had time to invest in Hody, nor his followers. We saw a newly introduced villain cheat his way to a pathetic, absolute loss. Even the animated interpretation had to allow him to get at least a single attack on Luffy to make the hollow victory a fraction more justified.
I'm sure we're all familiar with Fishman Island, so to close off this wasted opportunity, I present Timeskip Franky. Franky was such an exciting, cool character during his introductionary stage. He had all these unusual, quirky special attacks, and as we saw, he was able to handle himself in a fight providing he had enough cola available to keep himself freshly powered up. Fishman Island destroyed Franky's credibility, in my eyes.
No longer did he rely on his special attacks or established moves -- He simply sat inside a gigantic mecha, despite the fact he'd crafted himself a huge muscular body, and did silly little things like fall over clumsily to crush people. He used a laser beam attack, which is impressive on one scale, but it wasn't technically Franky firing the laser beam. It was all the mecha.
Potentially, even Nami, Usopp or Chopper could operate this mecha. But they'd still have the same level of physical or special skills once they stepped outside of it.
Imagine if Sanji or Zoro simply abandoned their unique fighting styles to simply sit inside of a mecha that Franky had built for them to operate. It's a waste of character development and an absolute slap in the face to the respective fans of those characters. If you love a character, you love them on a base level. That mecha is simply not a part of Franky, but rather, a tool for him to use. In simple terms, it makes him as a fighter look weak, incompetent and cowardly. He's literally hiding behind a giant mecha.
Even Usopp wouldn't resort to that. He'd use his own legs to run away, of course.
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No longer did he rely on his special attacks or established moves – He simply sat inside a gigantic mecha, despite the fact he'd crafted himself a huge muscular body, and did silly little things like fall over clumsily to crush people. He used a laser beam attack, which is impressive on one scale, but it wasn't technically Franky firing the laser beam. It was all the mecha.
Franky can fire laser beams by himself. What the hell are you talking about?
He also can fire rockets and one-handed Coup de Vents now.
Imagine if Sanji or Zoro simply abandoned their unique fighting styles to simply sit inside of a mecha that Franky had built for them to operate. It's a waste of character development and an absolute slap in the face to the respective fans of those characters. If you love a character, you love them on a base level. That mecha is simply not a part of Franky, but rather, a tool for him to use. In simple terms, it makes him as a fighter look weak, incompetent and cowardly. He's literally hiding behind a giant mecha.
Even Usopp wouldn't resort to that. He'd use his own legs to run away, of course.
Franky's biggest talent has always been building things. What's wrong with a mecha? It's not like he is using it all the time.
The fact that Franky managed to build a mostly-functional robot armor in an age where only Vegapunk was believed to have the knowledge to do so should be considered a big achievement for Franky.
However, it seems like you only care about Franky's fighting prowess, while ignoring his creativity and engineering skills being implemented on other things besides his own body.
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Franky can fire laser beams by himself. What the hell are you talking about?
He also can fire rockets and one-handed Coup de Vents now.
I'm perfectly aware of this. He can even shoot fireballs and streams of flame from his mouth.
During the final battle on Fishman Island however, he resorted to spinning around in a tubby mecha and falling over by accident.
Which leads me directly to your next qualm.
Franky's biggest talent has always been building things. What's wrong with a mecha? It's not like he is using it all the time.
The fact that Franky managed to build a mostly-functional robot armor in an age where only Vegapunk has the knowledge to do so should be considered a big achievement for Franky.
That's true. He's a builder by trade, being a Shipwright. The amusing thing with him however is that he develops ridiculous things, such as the Centaur Mode.
If his biggest talent is building however, why does he clearly make a mistake piloting the mecha and pass it off as a "special move" of sorts?
It's a funny joke, but it doesn't lend much credibility to his fighting abilities or his talents as a builder.
As for the creation of the mecha? I agree. It's an achievement as a designer or a builder, but not so much an achievement as a fighter. To me, Franky was an adept battler that, despite his technological skill, usually resorted to physical attacks – Franky Boxing, for example.
To have him sit the climactic battle out inside a clumsy suit of robot armour, with a huge self-built muscular body, makes no logical sense to me.
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I'm perfectly aware of this. He can even shoot fireballs and streams of flame from his mouth.
During the final battle on Fishman Island however, he resorted to spinning around in a tubby mecha and falling over by accident.
Which leads me directly to your next qualm.
That's true. He's a builder by trade, being a Shipwright. The amusing thing with him however is that he develops ridiculous things, such as the Centaur Mode.
If his biggest talent is building however, why does he clearly make a mistake piloting the mecha and pass it off as a "special move" of sorts?
It's a funny joke, but it doesn't lend much credibility to his fighting abilities or his talents as a builder.
As for the creation of the mecha? I agree. It's an achievement as a designer or a builder, but not so much an achievement as a fighter. To me, Franky was an adept battler that, despite his technological skill, usually resorted to physical attacks – Franky Boxing, for example.
To have him sit the climactic battle out inside a clumsy suit of robot armour, with a huge self-built muscular body, makes no logical sense to me.
But Franky's physical skills were always dependent on technology. Franky Boxing wouldn't be nowhere as effective if it weren't for his cybernetic implants.
The mecha is nothing but a glorified weapon that is not always available. And it needed an introduction at Fishman Island as Franky would need to use it at Punk Hazard later to avoid the Shinokuni.
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Honestly, I think having the General introduced in those 5 chapters during Punk Hazard would have been just, if not more effective if you ask me. Showcasing it and the land based Gaon Cannon against two of Doflamingo's crew and completely destroying them was much more satisfying than all of his FI battle.
Just imagine the hype and reaction it would have got after Franky being out of the picture for like 20+ chapters and then this at the end of 692.
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Just imagine the hype and reaction it would have got after Franky being out of the picture for like 20+ chapters and then this at the end of 692.
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Agreed. It would have been one long week of speculation to come, that's for certain. You should be hired as a story consultant.
To clarify, I have nothing against the "General" mech. I have nothing against Franky building things. I simply find it nonsensical that he redesigned himself with a massive, hulking bodybuilder's physique and then abandoned his entire original battle repertoire in favour of sitting inside a giant robot.
In the video-game Pirate Warriors 2, Franky only uses the General mecha as a brief finishing move from what I recall. I'm aware that the game isn't considered canon and has an original storyline, but every other time he's in battle, he's actually fighting using his own abilities. This is what I expected to see during the final brawl of Fishman Island. What I witnessed wasn't an increase in Franky's personal power, but an increase in his construction and building power.
Even Chopper, Nami and Usopp as the Weakling Trio conveyed to the audience they had became more capable and had "levelled up" their physical or special abilities for use in combat. I was happy with everybody's individual display of newfound strength but Franky.
As Periwinkle pointed out, it would have been totally fine to have the mecha show up on that singular page during Punk Hazard. That singular page suggests Franky survived the virulent gas and is likely about to take out two potentially dangerous enemies. So casually confident, he mistakes them for a mere passing bird – Also suggesting they're tiny compared to the mecha. It makes up for the fact he did virtually nothing during Punk Hazard but briefly inhabit Chopper's body and set fire to something whilst bound and locked up in a cage.
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Honestly, I think having the General introduced in those 5 chapters during Punk Hazard would have been just, if not more effective if you ask me. Showcasing it and the land based Gaon Cannon against two of Doflamingo's crew and completely destroying them was much more satisfying than all of his FI battle.
Just imagine the hype and reaction it would have got after Franky being out of the picture for like 20+ chapters and then this at the end of 692.
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And I think it would come off as a massive, literal Deus Ex Machina.
"Oh shit, this poisonous gas is covering the entire island and Franky is outside the lab! How is he going to… wait, what's this robot? Where did it come from?"
Agreed. It would have been one long week of speculation to come, that's for certain. You should be hired as a story consultant.
To clarify, I have nothing against the "General" mech. I have nothing against Franky building things. I simply find it nonsensical that he redesigned himself with a massive, hulking bodybuilder's physique and then abandoned his entire original battle repertoire in favour of sitting inside a giant robot.
In the video-game Pirate Warriors 2, Franky only uses the General mecha as a brief finishing move from what I recall. I'm aware that the game isn't considered canon and has an original storyline, but every other time he's in battle, he's actually fighting using his own abilities. This is what I expected to see during the final brawl of Fishman Island. What I witnessed wasn't an increase in Franky's personal power, but an increase in his construction and building power.
Even Chopper, Nami and Usopp as the Weakling Trio conveyed to the audience they had became more capable and had "levelled up" their physical or special abilities for use in combat. I was happy with everybody's individual display of newfound strength but Franky.
As Periwinkle pointed out, it would have been totally fine to have the mecha show up on that singular page during Punk Hazard. That singular page suggests Franky survived the virulent gas and is likely about to take out two potentially dangerous enemies. So casually confident, he mistakes them for a mere passing bird – Also suggesting they're tiny compared to the mecha. It makes up for the fact he did virtually nothing during Punk Hazard but briefly inhabit Chopper's body and set fire to something whilst bound and locked up in a cage.
Fishman Island also served to introduce the Rhino Bike and the Brachio Tank, which combined into the Shogun. The combination had to be showcased on panel.
Franky's relationship with the Shogun is no different than his relationship with all his weapon implants. They're all tools that make him stronger. If you're going to call him a coward for "hiding behind a mecha", then you should say the same for all the implants he put on his body to become stronger instead of doing so naturally.
Also, not introducing the Shogun during FI would be like Usopp not using Pop Greens, or Brook not using his newfound freezing ability, or Robin not showing her giant limbs, or Chopper not showing his controlled Monster Point and updated forms. The Shogun was the most important thing Franky came up with during the timeskip besides the Radical Beam.
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The entire point of Hody and his crew was that he was an empty villain who had no power of his own to back his completely empty ideaology. He wasn't supposed to be terribly menacing or effective, and his racism was supposed to be its own weakness, and in the end, he's left crippled and weak with no chance for redemption, a fate most OP villains aren't shackled with.
He was also there to provide someone to show the Straw Hat's training was worthwhile. They'd been stomped down for the previous three years in real time, for them to struggle even a little in that arc would have been a massive dissapointment,
We already had the powerful, semi-justified racist complete monster in Arlong and its difficult for ANY villain to match up to that level of irredeemable murdering bastard… Hody was supposed to be awful, while also trying to be Arlong 2.0... which he could never match up to.
There was literally nothing he could have done that would have ever matched him up to Arlong's killing of Bellemere with a shotgun to the face in front of her children... even his killing of the queen was a much weaker version of that same event.
For Hody to be lame and weaker was very clearly and blatantly Oda's intention, and he succeeded at it. Let's hope he never makes an intentionally empty villain again.
And... Franky makes mecha suits now. That have limited levels of usefulness. That's just the kind of dumb stuff he does, and has always done.
Don't source a Musou game as the proper way any of it should be handled.
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And I think it would come off as a massive, literal Deus Ex Machina.
"Oh shit, this poisonous gas is covering the entire island and Franky is outside the lab! How is he going to… wait, what's this robot? Where did it come from?"
Deus Ex Machina is essentially the right hand man of any weekly manga artist, and unashamedly so.
As I was following this story, I actually forgot all about Franky being outside. It became a cluttered mess, which is inevitable for Oda stuff.
Hence all the map diagrams detailing the locations of every single character involved in the scenario that you see frequently leading from the days of Alabasta or so.
Fishman Island also served to introduce the Rhino Bike and the Brachio Tank, which combined into the Shogun. The combination had to be showcased on panel.
Franky's relationship with the Shogun is no different than his relationship with all his weapon implants. They're all tools that make him stronger. If you're going to call him a coward for "hiding behind a mecha", then you should say the same for all the implants he put on his body to become stronger instead of doing so naturally.
Also, not introducing the Shogun during FI would be like Usopp not using Pop Greens, or Brook not using his newfound freezing ability, or Robin not showing her giant limbs, or Chopper not showing his controlled Monster Point and updated forms. The Shogun was the most important thing Franky came up with during the timeskip besides the Radical Beam.
I didn't call him a coward. I know Franky isn't a coward.
I simply find it distasteful and heavily out of character for a guy that was initially presented as a physical brawler type with cybernetic weaponry to suddenly start sitting battles out inside of a mecha. Plus, I hate to break it to you, but One Piece isn't Mobile Suit Gundam. The General mecha is interesting, but I get tired of the constant jokes about it being slow, clunky or useless.
For example, during the fight with Baby 5 and Buffalo. The gag about the shield being tiny and being used with poor timing, and then Baby 5 successfully penetrating the armour using her own body. Franky praises her coolly and calmly for it, then uses the special beam attack on the two of them. I felt for sure they'd be vaporized into powder, but no. They were simply slightly weakened, leaving it up to Usopp and Nami to finish them off – Admittedly, to allow them a moment in the sun, so to speak.
This doesn't exactly make the General mecha look like a formidable weapon by any standard, to me as a reader.
The entire point of Hody and his crew was that he was an empty villain who had no power of his own to back his completely empty ideaology. He wasn't supposed to be terribly menacing or effective, and his racism was supposed to be its own weakness, and in the end, he's left crippled and weak with no chance for redemption, a fate most OP villains aren't shackled with.
He was also there to provide someone to show the Straw Hat's training was worthwhile. They'd been stomped down for the previous three years in real time, for them to struggle even a little in that arc would have been a massive dissapointment,
We already had the powerful, semi-justified racist complete monster in Arlong and its difficult for ANY villain to match up to that level of irredeemable murdering bastard… Hody was supposed to be awful, while also trying to be Arlong 2.0... which he could never match up to.
There was literally nothing he could have done that would have ever matched him up to Arlong's killing of Bellemere with a shotgun to the face in front of her children... even his killing of the queen was a much weaker version of that same event.
For Hody to be lame and weaker was very clearly and blatantly Oda's intention, and he succeeded at it. Let's hope he never makes an intentionally empty villain again.
For me, the talk about Arlong during Fishman Island was another wasted opportunity in regards to him making some manner of return or appearance either on Fishman Island or elsewhere. Not to mention the introduction of his sister, Shyarly, who served as some manner of plot device and very little else as I recall.
As you've stated, Arlong killing Bellemere was a truly shocking and forever memorable scene. His gross and inhumane behaviour toward the young Nami was equally callous and disgusting. I'm sure everybody recalls the visceral scene in which Nami gores her arm with a dagger aimed at the brand of the Arlong Pirates. The tale with Otohime never stood a chance in terms of comparison, but I had a soft spot for Otohime because she was such a sweet and lovable woman.
Her personal policy on allowing murderers to roam free unpunished in order to avoid confrontation and anger leaves a strange taste in my mouth, though.
For people who followed the series from the early days, I'm certain that they've always wondered what happened to Arlong. He certainly wasn't confirmed dead, from what I recall. I believe there was some hint towards him being arrested. I suppose once a villain is defeated, the odds of them presenting a further threat lessens considerably.
Unless you're Buggy, of course.
And… Franky makes mecha suits now. That have limited levels of usefulness. That's just the kind of dumb stuff he does, and has always done.
Don't source a Musou game as the proper way any of it should be handled.
I didn't source the game as "the proper way" things should be handled. I even made reference to it being non-canon quite clearly.
All I did was suggest that I would like to see Franky putting his new timeskip body to good use during a fight scene with a notable opponent in the manga, sans the General mecha.
Thankfully, the game allows you to do this. This doesn't make it the proper way, it is simply wish fulfillment.
Think of it as a Man's Romance, if you will.
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Still firmly believe revealing Hody's group should have been revealed by doing the KKK thing and killing/hurting the person who gave Sanji blood (and that person should have been a kind hearted fishman that ended up getting killed instead of an okama joke, even if the end with Jinbe giving Luffy blood is supposed to be a huge moment). We automatically get emotional investment in the character because the person is obviously kind enough to help the Strawhats out, and we automatically hate the villain and get a strong feel for what they represent. If nothing else, have Hody's gang attack the okamas instead of just doing a one off joke. Sanji's blood donors being a gag instead of something much more important is a big wasted opportunity IMO.
Also think the story would be much better received if we knew the motivations of Hody and co. right away instead of keeping it as a reveal until the very end. The lack of villain focus along with their weakness led to a lot of speculation as to whether Hody and co. are sympathetic or not, or if they'll even end up being the true villains of the arc.super high expectations, which meant the Hody and co. reveal felt colder than normal.
I think Oda's biggest issue was trying to balance the new post-timeskip story with both Fishman Island stories, the story for that particular arc and the overarching story for down the line, so trying to figure out how the changes that the Strawhats have been through during the time skip on top of trying to show off Fishman Island and tell it's story and the overarching story on top of it just became too much to handle.
Honestly, I think having the General introduced in those 5 chapters during Punk Hazard would have been just, if not more effective if you ask me. Showcasing it and the land based Gaon Cannon against two of Doflamingo's crew and completely destroying them was much more satisfying than all of his FI battle.
Just imagine the hype and reaction it would have got after Franky being out of the picture for like 20+ chapters and then this at the end of 692.
[hide]http://110.imagebam.com/download/O3hiz8UWwQ4lcedJEYk7zw/33663/336620647/General.png[/hide]
I could see people saying it's a disservice to the suit, but Hody and co. were meant to not be strong enough for the suit to be really needed. Fishman Island ultimately used the suit for a "Franky brought it out for no reason" running gag. I think if people found that funny as a gag, then it was worth the reveal during Fishman Island.
That said, I could also see Franky talking about the vehicles and its transformation properties, possibly eluding to a mecha transformation in Fishman Island, and then actually revealing it down the line when it was actually needed. But I dunno if I'm really tackling the point of the thread or if I'm going "here's how I would have written the series" at this point.
Originally Posted by Nightwing
Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?
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Still firmly believe revealing Hody's group should have been revealed by doing the KKK thing and killing/hurting the person who gave Sanji blood (and that person should have been a kind hearted fishman that ended up getting killed instead of an okama joke, even if the end with Jinbe giving Luffy blood is supposed to be a huge moment). We automatically get emotional investment in the character because the person is obviously kind enough to help the Strawhats out, and we automatically hate the villain and get a strong feel for what they represent. If nothing else, have Hody's gang attack the okamas instead of just doing a one off joke. Sanji's blood donors being a gag instead of something much more important is a big wasted opportunity IMO.
When I read over what you've written, I realize just how much things have changed in terms of Oda's sense of storytelling. You used to see a lot of these "injustice" style stories back during the East Blue days. Infact, the very first one that stands out to me is the one involving Higuma, the mountain bandit, that takes place during Luffy's childhood. He unsuccessfully attempts to goad Shanks into a fight in the local bar – Shanks, even back then, was an incredibly formidable fighter and could have utterly destroyed the bullying braggart Higuma, but he doesn't. He turns the other cheek, which teaches a life lesson to a young and impressionable Luffy, who goes on to defend Shanks's benevolent actions at great risk to himself.
Just that brief piece of storytelling and the conclusion of it were far superior pieces of writing to having Sanji react with vitriolic hatred towards someone that saved his life, albeit a silly and humorous ailment played for laughs, just because they so happened to be homosexual. In a way, that destroys the whole clumsy racial harmony message of the Fishman Island arc. If that was the intended message, I'm no longer certain.
You have an heterosexual, lusting and unsuccessful lothario who has his life "saved" all thanks to an openly homosexual male -- Basically, his complete opposite as far as Sanji is concerned -- And how does he react? With utter contempt and disgust, as he is now "tainted" with a homosexual male's blood inside of his heterosexual male body. It would be the comparable equivalent of Arlong discovering he'd been donated blood by a human being. As far as Arlong would be concerned, he's just been donated blood by a being he considers to be inferior to himself. It isn't a compassionate message by any standard.
As much as Oda writes about exploration, friendship, adventuring and acceptance, I get the feeling he's actually quite a sheltered individual in regards to race relations and sexuality. The fact that every homosexual male character in One Piece happens to be a bizarre caricature of The Rocky Horror Picture Show suggests to me that Oda probably watched that movie one evening and decided that this is what every homosexual male was.
Then, I imagine he watched Monsters Inc and The Nightmare Before Christmas for a few more design pointers. But, I digress.
Gizmo, your idea may seem like a cliche to some, but it would have been vastly more interesting and thought-provoking to read about. I understand that the Japanese are quite xenophobic, and it isn't exclusive to Oda, but if they'd at least got the message that an innocent person was maimed or killed due to an act of kindness towards somebody who looked different to them or led a different lifestyle to them, hey. It'd have been worth the thought.
There's another wasted opportunity we can add to the list.
I could see people saying it's a disservice to the suit, but Hody and co. were meant to not be strong enough for the suit to be really needed. Fishman Island ultimately used the suit for a "Franky brought it out for no reason" running gag. I think if people found that funny as a gag, then it was worth the reveal during Fishman Island.
That said, I could also see Franky talking about the vehicles and its transformation properties, possibly eluding to a mecha transformation in Fishman Island, and then actually revealing it down the line when it was actually needed. But I dunno if I'm really tackling the point of the thread or if I'm going "here's how I would have written the series" at this point.
Again, a wonderful idea that never saw the light of day. Another wasted opportunity to build colossal hype towards a super revelation.
I'm getting the same sensation. I feel the discussion of wasted opportunities is beginning to merge with a "what if" sensibility. Personally, I feel there's nothing wrong with that. It's justified if you're presenting something you consider to be a wasted opportunity and then adding: "Here's what I would have liked to have seen", as a footnote to it.
Ultimately, nothing will change. Oda is the author and creator, and he has final say over his own personal universe. What has been done cannot be undone. However, every person is entitled to their own opinion and sense of aesthetics.
There are no right or wrong answers to this thread, simply "what if" scenarios that appeal to us, yet may not appeal to others. Debating it to the degree I feel I've been doing regarding the General mecha is beginning to grate on my nerves. I've said all I wish to say regarding that.
Next?
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And I think it would come off as a massive, literal Deus Ex Machina.
"Oh shit, this poisonous gas is covering the entire island and Franky is outside the lab! How is he going to… wait, what's this robot? Where did it come from?"
I see what you're saying and mostly agree, but 3 chapters later the threat of the gas completely vanishes with kinemon's revival so having the the General shown withstanding it AND Luffy's hardened fist would have smoothly lead into the final reveal. And I kind of already saw the outcome with the gas that way anyway so nothing would have changed for me.
What Gizmo says here is kinda more along the lines of what my thought process was like when posting before, lol.
That said, I could also see Franky talking about the vehicles and its transformation properties, possibly eluding to a mecha transformation in Fishman Island, and then actually revealing it down the line when it was actually needed. But I dunno if I'm really tackling the point of the thread or if I'm going "here's how I would have written the series" at this point.
And don't get me wrong, I'm in no way trying to say I would have written it differently because I really wouldn't change a thing given the chance. I just thought the idea was kind of cool and worth sharing.
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That said, I could also see Franky talking about the vehicles and its transformation properties, possibly eluding to a mecha transformation in Fishman Island, and then actually revealing it down the line when it was actually needed. But I dunno if I'm really tackling the point of the thread or if I'm going "here's how I would have written the series" at this point.
I kinda disagree. Having Franky allude the possibility, but not show the transformation sequence would be like Luffy alluding to either Gear 2nd or 3rd and then next time we saw him he would already be in gear mode, completely skipping the change process (the thumb blowing and leg pumping).
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The dealing with of Sanji's nose bleed gag was really one of the series' lowest points. Sanji STILL hasn't recovered from how awful he was there or just how bad that gag-turned-serious plot thread was.
For me, the talk about Arlong during Fishman Island was another wasted opportunity in regards to him making some manner of return or appearance either on Fishman Island or elsewhere. Not to mention the introduction of his sister, Shyarly, who served as some manner of plot device and very little else as I recall.
It's been stated clearly that he's still in jail… and still alive.
Storywise, him escaping wouldn't ever work... he's too weak to match to the current cast, and his old terror still has a spot of, well, terror. His legacy was more important than the man himself.
Shirly, as well as Tom's brother, were both mostly used to show of that Fishmen can come out looking very different from their siblings and that the racism isn't entirely rampant. Both will probably show up again later when FI is revisited down the road. Its the most unfinished story arc Oda has done, with a large number of its plot points still waiting to be resolved.
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Shirly, as well as Tom's brother, were both mostly used to show of that Fishmen can come out looking very different from their siblings and that the racism isn't entirely rampant. Both will probably show up again later when FI is revisited down the road. Its the most unfinished story arc Oda has done, with a large number of its plot points still waiting to be resolved.
Actually, when the Sea Kings talked about the Arc and how it would need plenty of repairs, they referred to "that family" as the ones that should do it (repair the ship).
I always thought "that family" was a reference to Tom's family, seeing as how his brother was in the business as well. So, maybe, Den will be the one in charge of repairing the Noah? That'd be a pretty cool way of making his introduction not worthless.
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I think the problem with FI wasn't the fights (aside from Zoro's). The fights could have been that and while the villain was slightly lackluster, he wasn't all that bad tbh. What annoyed me about the arc was the lack of exploration, not seeing anything of the Fishman district or much of the island. At one point, Brook walks out of the Mermaid cafe with Pappag and we see nothing inside, only a promise that they would return to it later. The forest wasn't explored all that much as well as Noah. Another issue was getting the sense that something bigger was supposed to happen but never did. Water 7 was amazing because of how the transition from relaxed to danger happened subtly, and also in a scary way. To put it simply, the arc was rushed and over-hyped. FI should have been more menacing in certain areas.
What I am truly hoping for the follow up to all of the foreshadowing about returning to the island to come true.
First you have the Tamatebako, the treasure that is now laced with explosives for Big Moms tea party, I hope that instigates something against FI and Luffy.
Luffy is NOW protecting the island, so maybe she attacks the Island specifically because of it.
Jinbe has unfinished business and has not joined the crew.
Luffy is destined or predicted to destroy the island.
Shirahoshi is Poseidon.
Noah will be repaired and used later at some point.I just can't rap my head around how they will return, but I'd rather have a part 2 much earlier than towards the end of this manga.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The dealing with of Sanji's nose bleed gag was really one of the series' lowest points. Sanji STILL hasn't recovered from how awful he was there or just how bad that gag-turned-serious plot thread was.
It's been stated clearly that he's still in jail… and still alive.
Storywise, him escaping wouldn't ever work... he's too weak to match to the current cast, and his old terror still has a spot of, well, terror. His legacy was more important than the man himself.
Shirly, as well as Tom's brother, were both mostly used to show of that Fishmen can come out looking very different from their siblings and that the racism isn't entirely rampant. Both will probably show up again later when FI is revisited down the road. Its the most unfinished story arc Oda has done, with a large number of its plot points still waiting to be resolved.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I really hope he can revisit this island and probably deliver a much stronger arc than the first.
To be honest there are only 3 things I want to happen (selfish I know lol) in this manga:
1. Return to FI
2. Assault on Mariejois (Reverie based arc most likely)
3. Another, completely different sky island. Give me a great adventure arc again. Less characters, more about the geography and the island itself. Skypiea did that wonderfully for me, even thriller bark. Enies Lobby showed some pretty cool background about the mystery behind the gates of justice and so on. I want really mysterious shit like that again. The only thing remotely like that is Raftel and we wont be seeing that for 10+ years. -
I kinda disagree. Having Franky allude the possibility, but not show the transformation sequence would be like Luffy alluding to either Gear 2nd or 3rd and then next time we saw him he would already be in gear mode, completely skipping the change process (the thumb blowing and leg pumping).
Well in the scenario, Franky would show the transformation sequence for the first time when using it in Punk Hazard and it would hold the proper weight. But personally do not mind how the General Franky has been used. Actually, given the use in the last two arcs I'm glad he's having a fight without the mech suit in Dressrosa.
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The dealing with of Sanji's nose bleed gag was really one of the series' lowest points. Sanji STILL hasn't recovered from how awful he was there or just how bad that gag-turned-serious plot thread was.
To be honest I actually like the gag and that it turned into what it did. Maybe not how it was handled, but I don't mind the actual thing itself. Sanji at that point was turned into stone just looking at Hancock, though it's obviously a gag and that may have happened anyway, for him to go to the mermaid isle (one of his dreams) after being trapped for 2 years on okama island, I can see why he'd have that sort of reaction. We also definitely had to have that gag considering who Sanji is and it's mermaids. I don't mind that it was parleyed into information about blood status on FI, rather than just being told that information by someone like Pappug or Hachi.
While I do think it would have been neat to have some kind elder give blood to Sanji, then be killed for it, in a way I think it would have diminished the impact of Jinbe doing that same thing later on with Luffy. I think at that point prejudice had just reached this point that, even if you were a normal citizen who's kind and totally sympathetic toward humans, even willing to give blood, you still wouldn't do it publicly for fear of your life. In fact I'd argue that Luffy needing blood after a fight is more nonsensical than Sanji needing it after a nosebleed, considering the state of Luffy's fights so far, we haven't once seen him need blood afterward. And he kicked Hody's ass, even.
But anyway Jinbe giving blood to Luffy was one of my favorite moments, if not my favorite, of the entirety of FI. Everything it represented, and it just shows how much Jinbe cares for Luffy even more. Tiger refused a transfusion even though it could save his life. Jinbe willingly and freely offered it to a man he respects and would be willing (and almost did) to die for.
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Oh, the scene of Jinbe providing blood was great.
Just Sanji had to be dragged through an obnoxious and offensive demeaning pile of mud to get to that point and the whole handling of that was… not so good.
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Fair enough. I do agree that it could have been handled better.
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Oda's frank hatred of Sanji never gets old for me.
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I understand the timeskip needed to be justified by some form of outright victory, but in my eyes, this was not the way. To use a Dragon Ball formula, think of the future version of Trunks easily dispatching a cybernetic, powered up version of Freezer. Freezer was a current, singular villain that had presented a massive threat to the protagonist in the previous arc. To have a new character slice him into pieces, in an ascended form none the less, displayed how powerful this new character was so that even a child could fathom it.
Except that was terrible and dragged a great villain through the mud in an extremely contrived fashion to make no point at all other than "this guy is SUPER SAIYEN ALSO" which didn't at all need to shit on a great villain to accomplish. Trunks showing that he was SS to Goku like he did was all we would have needed.
We already know how strong a SS is by that point. Completely pointless.He eviscerated a villain that had been quite a severe challenge with absolute ease. We knew all about Freezer due to the heavy focus upon his character that we'd invested in beforehand. Nobody had time to invest in Hody, nor his followers.
It's almost like Freeza was a massive major game changing series villain and Hody was a local terrorist racist who was not going to last or ever make a major series impact.
We saw a newly introduced villain cheat his way to a pathetic, absolute loss. Even the animated interpretation had to allow him to get at least a single attack on Luffy to make the hollow victory a fraction more justified.
Ah yes, that really stupid thing the anime did is now good for some reason.
Hody was meant to get his ass kicked. Good. Why shouldn't he have.
You know funny, I was also massively let down by the FI arc. But it sure as shit wasn't a tedious who cares thing like this that did it.
COMBAT COMBAT COMBAT. God you people are boring. As boring as combat.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
For me, the talk about Arlong during Fishman Island was another wasted opportunity in regards to him making some manner of return or appearance either on Fishman Island or elsewhere.
Arlong is never ever showing up again outside a flashback. Virtually the entire manner of his defeat was that Luffy erased Nami's past from existence short of outright murdering Arlong. If Oda were any other author Arlong would be dead. For all intents and purposes he is dead. The fact that he didn't show up in Impel Down speaks strongly to that fact.
Nor should he have showed up again, like there's literally no reason for such a thing to happened.
What. The flashback stuff of him wasn't enough for you?Not to mention the introduction of his sister, Shyarly, who served as some manner of plot device and very little else as I recall.
Smaller characters in arcs are generally exactly that, plot devices attached to quirky personalities. This isn't a complex story we're dealing in here.
I just want to know why she's any different from all the other characters just like that since chapter 1.Her personal policy on allowing murderers to roam free unpunished in order to avoid confrontation and anger leaves a strange taste in my mouth, though.
She was never against punishment and imprisonment, what the heck? Her whole establishing scene was her catching, slapping, and berating a robber. Who then goes to jail after having a change of heart to do his time lol.
For people who followed the series from the early days, I'm certain that they've always wondered what happened to Arlong.
He was symbolically murdered, and thrown into the void of prison never to be seen again.
He certainly wasn't confirmed dead, from what I recall. I believe there was some hint towards him being arrested.
Ah yes, hint.
You mean how they had Nezumi get them arrested.
How we SAW Hachi escape the prison ship.
And then literally had him mention that all the other Arlong Pirates were still in prison when the crew met him again.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Gia:
I think the problem with FI wasn't the fights (aside from Zoro's). The fights could have been that and while the villain was slightly lackluster, he wasn't all that bad tbh. What annoyed me about the arc was the lack of exploration, not seeing anything of the Fishman district or much of the island. At one point, Brook walks out of the Mermaid cafe with Pappag and we see nothing inside, only a promise that they would return to it later. The forest wasn't explored all that much as well as Noah. Another issue was getting the sense that something bigger was supposed to happen but never did. Water 7 was amazing because of how the transition from relaxed to danger happened subtly, and also in a scary way. To put it simply, the arc was rushed and over-hyped. FI should have been more menacing in certain areas.
This person has the correct reasons that the arc was a let down.
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Well, I suppose Oda tried to compensate the lack of exploration of the island proper with all the awesome underwater scenes before they arrived at FI, but who am I to know that?
If the island itself was a disappointment, the ocean around it at least wasn't.
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Well, I suppose Oda tried to compensate the lack of exploration of the island proper with all the awesome underwater scenes before they arrived at FI, but who am I to know that?
If the island itself was a disappointment, the ocean around it at least wasn't.
Yeah I did enjoy the descent a bunch.
Though I still think the whole thing was marred by Oda just never figuring out a good way to depict things as being underwater art wise. -
@Monkey:
Yeah I did enjoy the descent a bunch.
Though I still think the whole thing was marred by Oda just never figuring out a good way to depict things as being underwater art wise.I don't think its cause he can't draw underwater scenes. Zoro vs. Hodi was done fantastically and every scene after that. But i am still kind of disappointed we didnt see the Forest more or Fishman district and definitely agree that there should have been more ocean and water aspects to this arc, not just coral houses lol.
Who knows maybe we'll see more of it in the future.
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Well, I suppose Oda tried to compensate the lack of exploration of the island proper with all the awesome underwater scenes before they arrived at FI
For the most part, Oda is remarkably good at "building up" the start of each arc. I don't think there was a single moment where he didn't hype me up for an arc by building up anticipation (except for maybe Ussop's arc, but every other one had an incredible start…Fishman Island included).
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When they arrived at Punk Hazard only to meet that dragon I was so damned excited.
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I thought that dragon kind of looked like the one from Shrek.
I accept Jesus Burgess as my Lord and Savior
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@Medical:
I thought that dragon kind of looked like the one from Shrek.
Yes! I'm not the only one who thought of that. :D
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I think Smoker could have fought against a Baroque Works officer when he took Crocodile's ship.
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I think Smoker could have fought against a Baroque Works officer when he took Crocodile's ship.
Well back then he was untouchable for pretty much everyone and was portrayed as stronger than Luffy. I suppose him fighting an officer while Luffy fight Crocodile would have been bad for this portrayal.
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Well back then he was untouchable for pretty much everyone and was portrayed as stronger than Luffy. I suppose him fighting an officer while Luffy fight Crocodile would have been bad for this portrayal.
… Why?
I fail to see what about him wandering off is any better for his portrayal. Frankly, it was simply dumb, considering his forces planned on attacking Crocodile.
Let's be clear here, the only reason Tashigi didn't die was because of a whim.
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Decreased the 2Y time skip to 6 months, that way an arc or two and they can get stronger than at this point. The 2Y time skip forces Oda to make sure the SH don't meet any big shot without alliances and other crap that slows down the story progression. 6months is enough to still make FI interesting (they aren't competing with NW/SN guys), they can get couple of victories and defeats etc. Move on to the next arc and again abandon all commonsense and just go after the first major guy. Instead we are left with careful balancing of power levels and making sure the guys who spent 2 years training don't get easily defeated. We go from free adventure that holds risks to safe voyage with theme park islands that are already planned for. Hody beating Zoro would have been fine (if he fought back etc.), Sanji getting absolutely beat by Vergo before another mid-arc rest that builds toward them going to DR. Smoker actually going to DR to have a proper fight again DD, and Law being interesting reveal (undecided of who to fight) when they finally make it to DD. So much more interesting than being overprotective of the main characters and maintaining power levels.
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Decreased the 2Y time skip to 6 months, that way an arc or two and they can get stronger than at this point. The 2Y time skip forces Oda to make sure the SH don't meet any big shot without alliances and other crap that slows down the story progression. 6months is enough to still make FI interesting (they aren't competing with NW/SN guys), they can get couple of victories and defeats etc. Move on to the next arc and again abandon all commonsense and just go after the first major guy. Instead we are left with careful balancing of power levels and making sure the guys who spent 2 years training don't get easily defeated. We go from free adventure that holds risks to safe voyage with theme park islands that are already planned for. Hody beating Zoro would have been fine (if he fought back etc.), Sanji getting absolutely beat by Vergo before another mid-arc rest that builds toward them going to DR. Smoker actually going to DR to have a proper fight again DD, and Law being interesting reveal (undecided of who to fight) when they finally make it to DD. So much more interesting than being overprotective of the main characters and maintaining power levels.
The SH's were shown to be so far out of their league though, that something as short as a 6 month time skip would have made no sense.
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The SH's were shown to be so far out of their league though, that something as short as a 6 month time skip would have made no sense.
Not if you imagine their whole voyage since east blue was 6 months. The problem with 2Y time skip is that now if they go on for 6months to a year until they reach the end of NW their relative strength will always be limited by the fact that they reached the current level after 2 years of pure training with guidance. If they can defeat Crocodile in first half, 6 months should be enough for the others. And by the looks of it the emperors are not going to be taken down 1v1. In fact a second time skip after they enter NW would have been much better to create space between exciting FI and early NW dangers and taking on big pirates in NW.What we now have is 2Y training, some level reached, using their current strength to fight and probably win marginally then a jump in strength that usually comes after these arcs, but the last bit won't make any sense, a week in DR shouldn't give them that much strength relative to their currently level nor should 3-6 months in NW either. I'm talking from RPG point of view, if you spend 2 hours training and you gain a lot in the next hour relative to those two hours, then you spent way too long training. The only solution to that being that the first 1 hour is filled with relatively weak opponents that won't test you much, which is what I'm afraid is going to happen (already happened).
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Not if you imagine their whole voyage since east blue was 6 months. The problem with 2Y time skip is that now if they go on for 6months to a year until they reach the end of NW their relative strength will always be limited by the fact that they reached the current level after 2 years of pure training with guidance. If they can defeat Crocodile in first half, 6 months should be enough for the others. And by the looks of it the emperors are not going to be taken down 1v1. In fact a second time skip after they enter NW would have been much better to create space between exciting FI and early NW dangers and taking on big pirates in NW.What we now have is 2Y training, some level reached, using their current strength to fight and probably win marginally then a jump in strength that usually comes after these arcs, but the last bit won't make any sense, a week in DR shouldn't give them that much strength relative to their currently level nor should 3-6 months in NW either. I'm talking from RPG point of view, if you spend 2 hours training and you gain a lot in the next hour relative to those two hours, then you spent way too long training. The only solution to that being that the first 1 hour is filled with relatively weak opponents that won't test you much, which is what I'm afraid is going to happen (already happened).
Tbh, I just see their strength in the NW after 2 years being pretty equivalent to their strength in paradise in the first half of the story.
The trajectory of natural training in the NW will probably be roughly equivalent to how it was in paradise.
Start off with easier enemies (Lower Baroque Agents - > New Fishman Pirates)
The occasional tricky opponent who can't be beaten with just raw strength (Mr.3 - > Caesar)
Harder opponents, the first real test (higher up Baroque agents, Croc -> Donquixote family, Doffy)
Eventually moving up to much tougher tests that take everything to overcome (CP9, Moria -> Yonko)
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Tbh, I just see their strength in the NW after 2 years being pretty equivalent to their strength in paradise in the first half of the story.The trajectory of natural training in the NW will probably be roughly equivalent to how it was in paradise.Start off with easier enemies (Lower Baroque Agents - > New Fishman Pirates)The occasional tricky opponent who can't be beaten with just raw strength (Mr.3 - > Caesar)Harder opponents, the first real test (higher up Baroque agents, Croc -> Donquixote family, Doffy)Eventually moving up to much tougher tests that take everything to overcome (CP9, Moria -> Yonko)
I would love it if it happened that way. My current worry being that 2Y of training meaning they won't get defeated until some given time in couple of arcs. As long as growth is allowed in the NW from arc to arc is equivalent to first part then great. I do recall them having it very easy at first due to their previous training (for Luffy that was a decade worth of training). Oda will have to at first show us the complete set of powers and then invent new ones along the way from various islands and arcs (maybe even DF weapon based on how man-made DF is being pushed here).
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I would love it if it happened that way. My current worry being that 2Y of training meaning they won't get defeated until some given time in couple of arcs. As long as growth is allowed in the NW from arc to arc is equivalent to first part then great. I do recall them having it very easy at first due to their previous training (for Luffy that was a decade worth of training). Oda will have to at first show us the complete set of powers and then invent new ones along the way from various islands and arcs (maybe even DF weapon based on how man-made DF is being pushed here).
Yeah, well it would only make sense for natural training to be a part of the NW just like it was part of paradise.
It's obviously not going to work EXACTLY the same but I'd say the example I've given could be a fairly accurate estimate.
Hopefully by the time this arc ends (on both mainland Dressrosa and on the coast) we'll have seen pretty much the limit of the SH's individual abilities post-timeskip.
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Actually I think Luffy only had it easy for the first 4 eps of the show. Buggy wasn't insanely difficult but he did manage to hurt Luffy both mentally and physically (those were nasty slashes on his face and he screwed up Luffy's hat.)
I want to see more enemies that screw with the ratings scale. Like Enel. Who I think was actually stronger than both Moria and CP9. He was just so completely countered by Luffy's power (and even then the conflict and fight was really cool)
"Contests fought between two masters are decided instantly. An invisible battle is now raging between the two of them." Lelouch vs Schneizel, Code Geass
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Actually I think Luffy only had it easy for the first 4 eps of the show. Buggy wasn't insanely difficult but he did manage to hurt Luffy both mentally and physically (those were nasty slashes on his face and he screwed up Luffy's hat.)
I want to see more enemies that screw with the ratings scale. Like Enel. Who I think was actually stronger than both Moria and CP9. He was just so completely countered by Luffy's power (and even then the conflict and fight was really cool)
I was talking more about fights where Luffy was taken to his absolute limit, the first of which I'd say was against Croc.
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What I am going to write could fill the criteria of "dissapointments in One Piece" thread but whatever..
I would have like Kanjuro to be a full on stoic beast Samurai.. but what do we get..?
A quirky, weird and ditzy Samurai.. I don't look favourably upon his design, but if that's your piece of cake well ok..
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@Pk:
What I am going to right could fill the criteria of "dissapointments in One Piece" thread but whatever..
I would have like Kanjuro to be a full on stoic beast Samurai.. but what do we get..?
A quirky, weird and ditzy Samurai.. I don't look favourably upon his design, but if that's your piece of cake well ok..
For your sake, I hope Oda designed Wano so that it will be filled with nothing but Kabuki actors (aka a bunch of Kumadoris).
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For your sake, I hope Oda designed Wano so that it will be filled with nothing but Kabuki actors (aka a bunch of Kumadoris).
That would be expected though. I would be expecting Oda to design it pretty well considering it's going to be based off Japan.
I see Wano being a very traditional and very hierachical based country/island. Probably in turmoil.
As for things i hope never happen in one piece..
An entire happyland of ditzy gullible wierd ability enhanced Samurai.
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@Pk:
What I am going to write could fill the criteria of "dissapointments in One Piece" thread but whatever..
I would have like Kanjuro to be a full on stoic beast Samurai.. but what do we get..?
A quirky, weird and ditzy Samurai.. I don't look favourably upon his design, but if that's your piece of cake well ok..
It sounds like you were expecting a Zoro clone.
