Sounds like a good spot for Vegapunk to be stationed.
Chapter 485 "Strawhat Crew Member: Pirate Hunter Zoro" Discussion
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Unless another arc manages to occur between now and Fishman Island IF Zoro is out of commission for a bit, that won't last too long. He has a battle waiting for him at Fishman Island.
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against WHOM ?
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Against this guy:
Hatchan: Nyuuuuuu!!! You slippery bastard!!!
You've really got me hoppin' mad, now!! I'm gonna KILL you!!!
Did you know that aside from one man, I, "Hachi of the Six Sword Style," am the number one swordsman in all of Fishman Island?!!
Even if heaven and earth should be flipped upside down, no human could ever stand a chance of defeating me!!!! -
There's some concept art showing what I think is a squid fishman armed with multiple swords. He looked rather cool, so I hope he shows up on Fishman Island or somewhere else down the line.
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Juutoryuu vs Santoryuu? I'd say Zoro already has this in the bag.
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I never read side stories so I didn't know about it;P Thanks for the info, Ivotas.
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Anyone else think that maybe zoro and kuma made a deal? Its kinda far fetched, but look at the wording.
See, for some reason it seems like he may take zoro's head at some later time instead of now. Anyone see what I mean?
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Something that is rolling around my mind recently when I reread the chapter is this.
Is Zoro potentially more stronger than Luffy?
I know that it could sound very lame but if Zoro is able to to keep a pain that has put Luffy in unconscious state and continue being awake then his body can go beyond than Luffy one and all this counting that Zoro isn´t a devil fruit user.
I am not saying that Zoro is more stronger than Luffy I am saying that Zoro potential is higher than Luffy. Zoro evolution is progressive around all the series, Luffy is another history, he went to his limits in normal state fightning against Crocodile and Eneru and he was forced to go with Gear 2.
Zoro is now very far of Gear 2 Luffy but it seems that he has surpassed Gear 1 Luffy.
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Anyone else think that maybe zoro and kuma made a deal? Its kinda far fetched, but look at the wording. http://i26.tinypic.com/jaxdp3.png
See, for some reason it seems like he may take zoro's head at some later time instead of now. Anyone see what I mean?
I don't see any point in him taking his life later. The point of taking Luffy's head was to prevent him from causing chaos for the world government and him becoming pirate king. Therefore, if he were to take Zoro's head in exchange for his Luffy's, it would be to prevent him from becoming the world's number one swordsman. The way I see it, Kuma thought the pain would kill Zoro, but didn't expect him to be so resilient. When he survived, he saw how much determination Zoro had and let him live, as a sign of respect. I don't think Kuma is really all that bad of a guy in reality. Although, what I wonder now is how badly Zoro has been effected from the pain. I know he can't be done though, he just got a awesome new sword from Ryuuma. No way that is gonna go to waste.
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See, Luffys gear 2 uses energy above normal so when he goes gear 2 while he already is at his limit means he is using his last drop of energy, this does not mean that he can't move because of pain, he just doesn't have energy left to move.
If Luffy would start a fight right now he would lose as his body has had no new energy and even if he would want to fight he could not.
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So basically:
Pain is no longer an issue until Zoro meets Mihawk for the final showdown.
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Something that is rolling around my mind recently when I reread the chapter is this.
Is Zoro potentially more stronger than Luffy?
I know that it could sound very lame but if Zoro is able to to keep a pain that has put Luffy in unconscious state and continue being awake then his body can go beyond than Luffy one and all this counting that Zoro isn´t a devil fruit user.
I am not saying that Zoro is more stronger than Luffy I am saying that Zoro potential is higher than Luffy. Zoro evolution is progressive around all the series, Luffy is another history, he went to his limits in normal state fightning against Crocodile and Eneru and he was forced to go with Gear 2.
Zoro is now very far of Gear 2 Luffy but it seems that he has surpassed Gear 1 Luffy.
There's nothing that ever said that Zoro was weaker then Luffy. In fact, even though Zoro always only fights the second strongest guy (Well other then Mihawk and Kuma) he doesn't come out of the fights the same way Luffy does. Zoro comes out tired, but still very capable of fighting while Luffy almost always barely makes it through the battle and usually passes out for days at a time. Zoro is kind of Luffy's opposite if you think about it. While Zoro deals with his swords and piercing attacks, Luffy deals with straight out brutality with his fists and legs with help from his rubber abilities. A punch doesn't have much of an effect on Luffy, and Zoro seems to be able to live through alot of slashes regardless of how much blood he loses. If they fought out a battle all the way through, I'd say they would end in a draw.
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You guys are over analyzing him not dying.
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Im curious..
Do any of you believe that Franky, being a cyborg himself, wil eventually become as strong as Kuma?
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Hard to say, I'm sure he will be inspired by Kuma.
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Im curious..
Do any of you believe that Franky, being a cyborg himself, wil eventually become as strong as Kuma?
clearly a cyborg vs cyborg would be nice
plus it would put Franky over Vegapunk too, in genius fashion
perhaps Usopp will help outrig Franky too…
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I can see Kuma fighting Zoro or Kuma fighting Franky + Usopp in the future.
Kuma vs Zoro would be like a battle of faiths (religious vs atheist), while Kuma vs Franky + Usopp would be a battle between cyborgs and who has the better technology and inventive know-how.
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I think Sanji would fight Kuma because of his rivalship with Zoro. This would kind of be his way to show Zoro that he's not always all tough and manly because he can beat the man he basically sold his life away to.
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I can see Kuma fighting Zoro or Kuma fighting Franky + Usopp in the future.
Kuma vs Zoro would be like a battle of faiths (religious vs atheist), while Kuma vs Franky + Usopp would be a battle between cyborgs and who has the better technology and inventive know-how.
Interestingly nothing other than his Bible (which didn't really have much of a role anyway) implies Kuma being even a tad bit religious. I wonder what the significance of his Bible really is?
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You guys are over analyzing him not dying.
I agree, I mean if you think about it for a second it's all too obvious Zoro was never going to die. After the fight with Mihawk, maybe and that's a big maybe. However, right now there is no chance of it happening, and Zoro will sleep off any injuries he's sustained just like everyone else.
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@Kidany:
I agree, I mean if you think about it for a second it's all too obvious Zoro was never going to die. After the fight with Mihawk, maybe and that's a big maybe. However, right now there is no chance of it happening, and Zoro will sleep off any injuries he's sustained just like everyone else.
Bandages heal everything.
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@VL7:
Interestingly nothing other than his Bible (which didn't really have much of a role anyway) implies Kuma being even a tad bit religious. I wonder what the significance of his Bible really is?
He probably sees the pirates as evil, and due to his religious way is trying to cleanse the world of pirates for the sake of the WG. However, we don't really know anything about his past or why exactly he was given the name "Violent-kun" in his pirate days (not Shichibukai days).
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I think Kuma may come one day and claim Zoro-anyone else think the pain was "putting a mark" on Zoro both physicaly/emotively?
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I think Kuma may come one day and claim Zoro-anyone else think the pain was "putting a mark" on Zoro both physicaly/emotively?
That's not a bad point. If that's true, then two shachibooki now have their eyes on Zoro…
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I have to say this chapter was probably by far one of the best chapters I've read in a very long time in one piece. Dont' fget me wrong, every chapter Oda makes is amazing in it's own way, but this is just beyond anyone's expectations.
"The realization of a man" I mean wow he looked so bad ass in that last panel I think I could have fainted if it was animated now. no seriously. I would probably have felt light headed if I saw that part of an episode right now it would just be the most kick ass thing.
Loved how Sanji was the second to get up and also told the bear to spear luffy and take his life instead. (((Pure speculation from this point on. :P ))But I think it was best that Zoro did this because we've really never seen him go as far as the others have for luffy ((emotionally)). Cause physically that's a whole different story.
I wish Zoro would tell at least Luffy what happened, but I'm afraid he probably wont.I mean, at least sanji knows something, and he might tel the others, but on second thought, if he gets what Zoro means by "nothing… Nothing at all." Then we might not see anyone figure it out until they think somethings up.
:P
and that would build up tension and drama and character development for the other Cast members! Or hey, Zoro could tell them straight up, but i doubt it.((end pure speculation))Anywho on to Vegapunk, Finally we get an idea of what he looks like? Or we get an idea of how much of a genius this scientist really is. and also, Bartholomew Bear is now a high performance Cyborg/Human/ Devil fruit User. And, even though we've seen his power it's still hard to understand. :S
Well in any case I absolutely can't wait for next week! :3
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Me wonders if Vegapunk might be connected to Machine Island.
You never this never even crossed my mind for some reason. Probably because the place was mentioned in a cover story so I kind of forgot.
Anyway, I think you may have the right idea. Vegapunk might have been from Machine Island, or simply have visited the place. He might have gained a great deal of knowledge and expertise in whatever he does now for the World Government from there. Do you think the Strawhats might ever end up at Machine Island? If they do there might be a character with some background information on Vegapunk, at least more than the tidbits we've gotten so far.
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You know what I just realized for a reason that Kuma didn't kill Zoro? Well, Kuma carried the Bible around, so there's the whole "religious" idea about him. What I'm wondering is if he saw Zoro's actions and drew them to another major religious figure: Jesus.
They both sacrificed themselves, wllingly, for others and both knew the pain that they'd be putting themselves through. I realize this is REALLY far off, but that's possibly a subtle reason that Oda slipped in there for Kuma possibly not going all the way with finishing off Zoro, even though I believe that Kuma didn't know if Zoro died or not.
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@Kidany:
You never this never even crossed my mind for some reason. Probably because the place was mentioned in a cover story so I kind of forgot.
Anyway, I think you may have the right idea. Vegapunk might have been from Machine Island, or simply have visited the place. He might have gained a great deal of knowledge and expertise in whatever he does now for the World Government from there. Do you think the Strawhats might ever end up at Machine Island? If they do there might be a character with some background information on Vegapunk, at least more than the tidbits we've gotten so far.
No.
16 characters of wrong.
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The only thing I didn't like was how Oda over did Zoro. I don't mind about the thing of Zoro taking the pain of Luffy, but all that blood was pretty exagerated.
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I think Zoro isn't physically stronger than Luffy,but can probably take more damagae, higher endurance. Luffy's rubber body probably halves most of the damage he takes anyway so he's not used to getting beaten too badly. While Zoro, on the other hand, takes an epic level asswhooping on the regular. Zoro has been literally, cut in two! And yet, he lives!!
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Even after learning his ability
I'm still wondering what the hell happened to Perona
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he just shot her the fuck out of there man
like a catapult of justice
and quantum abnormalities -
Even after learning his ability
I'm still wondering what the hell happened to Perona
Maybe Perona will be the next person to get her own title page
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Even after learning his ability
I'm still wondering what the hell happened to Perona
I think the panel where Kuma throws off a rock by simply pushing it explains.
She might had fell in the ocean or landed in another island with that impact. Only the next chapters or a cover-story will clarify that.
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Even after learning his ability
I'm still wondering what the hell happened to Perona
Maybe she's just hiding behind Absolom?
or getting a glass of rootbeer?
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I think the panel where Kuma throws off a rock by simply pushing it explains.
She might had fell in the ocean or landed in another island with that impact. Only the next chapters or a cover-story will clarify that.
Or maybe she'll show up with Buggy…
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She ended up in a horrible castle, right? Maybe she's at Alabasta with Vivi. Zing.
But honestly, she'll probably be in the next cover spread, or they'll explain Kuma's powers more eventually, since he wrote in the Bible and asked for the Dream Vacation with that as well.
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@Impel:
She ended up in a horrible castle, right? Maybe she's at Alabasta with Vivi. Zing.
But honestly, she'll probably be in the next cover spread,
A Vivi and Perona cover spread. They both team up to search for the Straw Hats. Little does Vivi know that Perona is actually evil, and only wants to find Luffy so that he can restore her devil-fruit powers. Then she plans to eat everyones brain and dance around the grand line eating everyones brain
Meanwhile Kuma stops time and traps Brook in Impel Down for all eternity
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More like Perona sunndely falls over Vivi's head, cracking it open, resulting on the death of one of the most annoying characters ever, and after Perona's life is saved by Vivi's forehead, Cobra will adopt her and everyone will live happily ever after…...
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@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
More like Perona sunndely falls over Vivi's head, cracking it open, resulting on the death of one of the most annoying characters ever, and after Perona's life is saved by Vivi's forehead, Cobra will adopt her and everyone will live happily ever after…...
!
Anywho… do you think that the World Government will be pissed at Kuma for not following orders? And he's obviously not under their control (like a robot) as people were saying. Because he chose to save them, and not finish them off. -
I can see Kuma fighting Zoro or Kuma fighting Franky + Usopp in the future.
Kuma vs Zoro would be like a battle of faiths (religious vs atheist), while Kuma vs Franky + Usopp would be a battle between cyborgs and who has the better technology and inventive know-how.
Zoro = Atheist?
Wasn't his whole dream about becoming the best swordsmaster meant, so that his name would reach out to kuina in heaven?
If you think about it.. that would be a bit of a plot hole, because the (good) people that die in OP seem to go to the underworld (brooke)
So there probably isnt going to be a heaven.I could see a near-death experience for Zoro next chapter, in which he sees Kuina again.
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Zoro = Atheist?
Wasn't his whole dream about becoming the best swordsmaster meant, so that his name would reach out to kuina in heaven?
If you think about it.. that would be a bit of a plot hole, because the (good) people that die in OP seem to go to the underworld (brooke)
So there probably isnt going to be a heaven.I could see a near-death experience for Zoro next chapter, in which he sees Kuina again.
Yes, Zoro does say "My strength will even reach the heavens" while talking to his Dojo master however, in the Skypeia arc, he doesn't pray to or believe in God and he says that he doesn't believe in God in another instance later on in the series. Also, the phrase "My strength will even reach the heavens" can be interpreted metaphorically. He makes no mention about Kuina being in heaven.
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Ok
I wonder why he doesnt believe then..
Brooke came back from the Underworld so Kuina probably is there. -
Me wonders if Vegapunk might be connected to Machine Island.
Me wonders how Vegapunk couldn't be connected to it – I mean, as far as we've seen, Machine Island is the only place where full-on robots, similar to the types seen in the moon city and depicted on the moon murals, are still being built. That's the sort of tech expertise Vegapunk would need to know how to make laser beams shoot from mouths and so on. That combined with a genius brain that's already figured out how to do some peculiar things with devil fruits.
Of course, not everyone who knows how to modify humans with metal has to originate from Machine Island -- for instance: Franky. But since other cyborgs and pure robots have been so rare up until now, I'm beginning to wonder if: (1) Franky's family originally came from Machine Island, and he grew up in an environment that fostered that kind of stuff and learned the skills at a very early age (2) Franky got his cybering ideas from the Pluton plans or (3) Franky is related to Vegapunk.
I'll venture one other theory/guess/prediction/whatever too:
That Machine Island, or at least the robot technology in the form of the little Spaceys, is not yet known to the WG. That is, they may know of the island and know that lots of interesting mechanical things are built there, but I got the impression (I don't know exactly how though) that the creator of the Spaceys (R.I.P) was the last person with the knowledge of how to built those robots ...
... unless, of course, Vegapunk was his apprentice/student at one time, or somehow was smart enough to figure out how to do it from dissecting one of them, or is related to the deceased robot creator.
I never read side stories so I didn't know about it;P
Rukawa, you might want to start now. I'm pretty sure there's a thread in the manga forum with links to scans of the complete chapter stories. Though they seem like filler (and probably many of the frames are), interesting things have a habit of appearing there first before landing in the main story a few chapters (or years…) later. At the very least, I'd recommend reading "Coby and Helmeppo's Chronicle of Toil" and the most recent one about Ener and the Moon.
@Impel:
What I'm wondering is if he saw Zoro's actions and drew them to another major religious figure: Jesus.
Where is Usopp-With-A-Pushpop when we need him.
Isn't he the one with the brilliant avatar that says: "Zoro, you aren't Jesus"? He's had that for a long time now, too. -
A few things… who says Brook was a good man when he died? Maybe he was a bloodthirsty sadistic pirate fiend.
Ok, I don't think so, but I also don't know exactly what the original Japanese for what Brook said was, and "underworld", while bringing up images of an unpleasant place to some, is still rather vague.
Regarding Zoro's beliefs, the existance of souls and some sort of possible afterlife, and the existance of a god, are not the same thing. I don't want to derail this thread into a theology debate of course, but it's quite possible for someone like Zoro to believe in an afterlife without believing in god.
EDIT: By the way, I recall a scene in the anime after Skypiea, in which Chopper mentions how he misses the sky island, and someone, I think Zoro, says something like "You'll go back there when you die... or somewhere close." And then for looks at Zoro a bit, and a few half-joking comments are made doubting whether Zoro would go to heaven after dieing.
Was that an anime only filler scene? I didn't start reading the manga till afterwards.
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@Kidany:
Anyway, I think you may have the right idea. Vegapunk might have been from Machine Island, or simply have visited the place. He might have gained a great deal of knowledge and expertise in whatever he does now for the World Government from there. Do you think the Strawhats might ever end up at Machine Island? If they do there might be a character with some background information on Vegapunk, at least more than the tidbits we've gotten so far.
Personally I hope for them to go to Machine Island, since an island like that leaves a lot of room for unique creations and designs for Oda. It just has too much potential to be left out.
Other then for the designs plotwise Machine Island should be interesting. With the Spacey´s we´ve seen that at least some part of the MI technology is connected to the Moon-Blikans, who are connected to ancient Jayans. Pair that with the fact that the Ancient Weapons also seem to be advanced technology Machine Island might be a good place to find out more about the bigger picture in One Piece.
Me wonders how Vegapunk couldn't be connected to it – I mean, as far as we've seen, Machine Island is the only place where full-on robots, similar to the types seen in the moon city and depicted on the moon murals, are still being built. That's the sort of tech expertise Vegapunk would need to know how to make laser beams shoot from mouths and so on. That combined with a genius brain that's already figured out how to do some peculiar things with devil fruits.
True that. The thing why I asked is because I had the impression that Machine Island might be an isolated hidden island because the locals fear that their technologies might be used the wrong way if outsiders know of their existence. With that thought the question could also have been, is Vegapunk from Machine Island or not?
Of course, not everyone who knows how to modify humans with metal has to originate from Machine Island – for instance: Franky. But since other cyborgs and pure robots have been so rare up until now, I'm beginning to wonder if: (1) Franky's family originally came from Machine Island, and he grew up in an environment that fostered that kind of stuff and learned the skills at a very early age (2) Franky got his cybering ideas from the Pluton plans or (3) Franky is related to Vegapunk.
That Machine Island, or at least the robot technology in the form of the little Spaceys, is not yet known to the WG. That is, they may know of the island and know that lots of interesting mechanical things are built there, but I got the impression (I don't know exactly how though) that the creator of the Spaceys (R.I.P) was the last person with the knowledge of how to built those robots ...
I actually think that an island that calls itself Machine Island should have far better robots around then the Spaceys. I mean they were easily crushed on the moon. If that´s the best they can build I´d be disappointed in the scientists of the island. True it is still far more advanced technology then what we have seen in any other island, but for an Oda-verse you´d expect that something that is called Machine Island should have robots that could fight on Strawhat level.
However, as you can see from my paragraph above, I agree with the "the WG doesn´t know" idea. Just as I said in the paragraph above I think that Machine Island might have advanced technologies that always attract governments and their military forces. And since we didn´t see much of advanced technology used in the blue sea, I think that MI really might be hidden. So Vegapunk either be from Machine Island and keep that fact a secret (which makes him unique and also keeps his home island protected) or he just is a genius with no relation to the island at all and would do everything to visit it if he knew of his existence.
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EDIT: By the way, I recall a scene in the anime after Skypiea, in which Chopper mentions how he misses the sky island, and someone, I think Zoro, says something like "You'll go back there when you die… or somewhere close." And then for looks at Zoro a bit, and a few half-joking comments are made doubting whether Zoro would go to heaven after dieing.
Was that an anime only filler scene? I didn't start reading the manga till afterwards.
Chapter 303 in the manga.
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She might had fell in the ocean or landed in another island with that impact. Only the next chapters or a cover-story will clarify that.
Funny that no one made a joke about her arriving at the moon, reuniting with her brother in face faults. Well, now i spoiled it anyway :p
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A few things… who says Brook was a good man when he died? Maybe he was a bloodthirsty sadistic pirate fiend.
Ok, I don't think so, but I also don't know exactly what the original Japanese for what Brook said was, and "underworld", while bringing up images of an unpleasant place to some, is still rather vague.
Regarding Zoro's beliefs, the existance of souls and some sort of possible afterlife, and the existance of a god, are not the same thing. I don't want to derail this thread into a theology debate of course, but it's quite possible for someone like Zoro to believe in an afterlife without believing in god.
I know what you mean. But you can't be a Atheist when you believe in a afterlife. Would suprise me if the underworld where brooke came from was inspired by the Norse mythology to. If zoro dies from his, they could just go there and get him xD