Robo-Imu sounds fun.
Like the ED-209 of OP
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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I want Robo-Imu's theme to be "Overtaken?"
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@Seafarer33 I would say that it happened at the very end of the Void Century when the Ancient Kingdom was destroyed and the new World Government was formed. Like, you remember how some people thought Enel really was a god because of his DF? Well, if Imu is the one who can make that super storm that obliterated Lulusia, you can kind of see the same effect.
It's just a theory, though. But I don't think Imu is as clear-cut of a "I'm responsible for any and everything bad ever" villain.
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Is Kuma's bear ears hair? We saw kuma as child with a saved head in the sbs and he didn't have any bear ears.
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@Johnny-B-Decent said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
But I don't think Imu is as clear-cut of a "I'm responsible for any and everything bad ever" villain.
There's hopefully more to him/her, otherwise we should have stuck with the elders alone as antagonistic rulers. If anything, there's little to no evidence that they would currently be a straw man for the Gorosei. As you say, they might have once been an instrument in the distant past and then realized that, as the person with their finger on the nuke button, they can just as well be in charge. Why not.
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@Sun-D said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Is Kuma's bear ears hair? We saw kuma as child with a saved head in the sbs and he didn't have any bear ears.
That's because as a child one should always make several back up saves of their head in case they erase one by accident. As an adult you don't really need a saved head anymore.
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Actually, now that you mentioned it, Oda once explained in an SBS that Mohji's animal ears were actually part of his hair, hence why they've grown during the time skip.
...Holy fuck, my dudes, if we just found out the final race that Big Mom is looking for and it's this silly shit about your hair looking like animal ears Im gonna lose it.
Imma be rolling on the floor laughting for 2 straight days.I dont know if I should add this theory to the Dumb Theories thread or the serious Theory thread.
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Greg was Stussy the one Vegapunk was talking to on the transponder snail? You said you thought it was the member of the Rocks Pirates
How many more clones like Stussy do you expect?
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Everyone is a clone. A clone world going thru a groundhog day like circle of rebirth
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@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Greg was Stussy the one Vegapunk was talking to on the transponder snail?
Yep! Called it.
How many more clones like Stussy do you expect?
I hope not too many. The clone concept is good for 'in a pinch' armies and some nice plot twists, but I hope he doesn't overdue it. Kuma/Pacifistas, Buckin, Germa, and the Warlord Babies are fine. I'd say maybe one more WG or black market army and one more plot-twist clone are all he realistically has left. Going beyond that might mean it's time to take grandpa's car keys.
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Shiebs said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Greg was Stussy the one Vegapunk was talking to on the transponder snail?
Yep! Called it.
How many more clones like Stussy do you expect?
I hope not too many. The clone concept is good for 'in a pinch' armies and some nice plot twists, but I hope he doesn't overdue it. Kuma/Pacifistas, Buckin, Germa, and the Warlord Babies are fine. I'd say maybe one more WG or black market army and one more plot-twist clone are all he realistically has left. Going beyond that might mean it's time to take grandpa's car keys.
Thanks for the response Greg
Good to hear you say that, I was getting all carried away and thinking that Vegapunk made clones of all the Rocks Pirates in there youth, and that’s how they would come back into the story as a prominent threat
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Well, so far, the only two people with knowledge of cloning are Judge and Vegapunk. And Judge's clone army just seem to be made out of people of no particular importance.And it doesn't seem that the WG has any other clone experts on their payroll.
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Greg do you have an idea on which Island we are going to next? Oda seems to be setting up both Pirate Island and Elbaf, but that honestly makes me think he'll pull one over on us and have us go to some unknown island we've never heard of before
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@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
one more plot-twist clone
Better make it a really dumb one to get proper value for it. Like imu being a failed joy boy clone, or a clone of his arch enemy sad boy. Sad boy had his own world but it blew up so he is sad now, and tries to steal happ boys world. Sad boy is from the moon. And the OP world is also a clone. It needs to be this dumb, or dumber to be worthy of the super secret last minute clone reveal
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The only two people we know of with knowledge.
Buckin seems to have some level of understanding and who knows what Caesar and Queen may have sold off to black market. There are plenty of options for a weird dark horse player to appear. Not that it's needed or I expect it, it's just not off the table.
Genetic engineering will play a big role in the story.
I also have to wonder if the race Mom couldn't get is an actual legitimate dragon. i know there's the whole Kuma thing and yes, it's intriguing, but I get the feeling that dragons played a major role in the history of these planets. Maybe they were even the means of interplanetary travel (something I'd have scoffed at bf Maxim).
Someone joked about the hairy race and that's certainly one thing. I think the Apis arc may have touched on stuff way close to endgame and that's why it was nixed hard and never spoken of again. .....besides sucking.
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I loved that filler, the dragons and Luffy's ability to understand those was cool to see!
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I could see Yamato being revealed as Kaido’s clone made by Queen. Not as a surprise twist, but just as a means for Oda to expand on the subject once he goes more into it.
It could explain why Oda decided he had to introduce Yamato despite being so late in the arc and the character technically serving no clear purpose in the end.
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Do we still consider Yamato being introduced "late" into the arc when there were almost as many chapters after Yamato appeared as there were before?
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I do because it is not a matter of how many chapters were left, but at what stage in the arc it was. Despite how long it was, Onigashima was the resolution portion: all the plotlines were introduced prior to it and that was just the time to wrap them through fights. Perhaps the only plot we might argue was introduced at that point was Kaido betraying Orochi, but that didn’t really amount to anything in the end.
The plotlines were not being built or developed anymore, they were all set and just waiting to the concluded. And the fact Yamato did not took part in any of them shows that he was introduced (and conceived) too late.
I mean, he is not a guest character like Marco, he is Kaido’s son, who also was Ace brother-in-arms and a fervent follower of Oden. His roles demanded him to be a core character in the arc, playing a pivotal role in many plotlines, but he ended up feeling like a DLC character (remove Yamato and absolutely nothing in the arc changes). -
Oh I agree with your point, its just that I personally don't like how it sounds because it kinda takes some weight off of how much of a failure Yamato is as a character.
There was a complete second half of chapters to make something out of them, but that never happened.
Anyways, it would be interesting if we can get some Queen backstory out of the whole clone business. We might possibly get some expanded King / Lunarians lore thanks to the Seraphs, so it would fit nicely to have both.
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I think Yamato's purpose is exactly what Kaido was barking on him about. Be that general/guardian for Wano. Taking charge of the raids with the Beast Pirates that survived being put to use. Momo and Yamato replace Orochi and Kaido for the opening of the borders.
He can also lead Pluton. A dragon, Pluton, Beast Pirates/Oniwabanshu/Mimawarigumi under the General Yamato's command, Minks, and Scabbards is a real threat. Wano has more of a force this time if someone encroaches.
As soon as the Germa covers end and Oda gets off the random request covers, the cover story might pop up where Yamato explores Wano and I get the Carrot confirmation. Those in Udon remember the meritocracy and Yamato's strength is proven. They most likely get in line for him. The Mimawarigumi and Oniwabanshu pledged loyalty to Kaido last in a way, so they might adhere to that too.
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@access-timeco said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
technically serving no clear purpose in the end.
Yamato serves many purposes in the arc. Not joining does not negate the many purposes he serves.
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@andre said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
Yamato serves many purposes in the arc. Not joining does not negate the many purposes he serves.
Which, though? Legit question, because I am truly confused by the character and maybe I am failing to see something.
I never expected him to join, but I was curious to see what Oda had in store for him and in the end I never got what it was (not saying every character needs a big reason to exist, but I think the introduction of a character with Yamato’s “weight” at that specific point in the ar. could only be justified if suddenly Oda had a purpose that only this character could fulfill).The only purpose I see is Momo's friend and emotional support, a role that I could easily see Shinobu fulfilling if Yamato was not introduced. All other specific parts he played are similarly roles that other pieces already at play and already set could easily perform (like owning Oden’s diary and giving to Momo, or symbolizing maybe a future Wano embracing former enemy bloodlines. Even the ones suggested by Cockycent).
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I would add, OP tends to have characters inherit will, even if they aren't exactly the same on the surface.
Momo or the Scabbards are so obvious, but the enemy having a son inherit Oden's will emphasizes that point even more. I questioned what the flashback would segue into and Oda made sure the search the son was a highlight.
Looking back, the Ace pandering felt forced with Tama and Yamato. Did Luffy have to experience Ace's fan club? I get it, but... whatever. While I was reading week to week, I didn't mind it. Now, it feels questionable.
I did enjoy Yamato bringing out more of Kaido's character. I wish he could do that for Momo. Momo will forever be the weakest part of Wano and only second to Roof Piece going 2 and 3 quarters of a chapter as if it's the only narrative ongoing. That was nasty work.
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I don't think we're likely to find out Yamato is a clone.
I wouldn't say it's off the table, I just don't think Oda is interested in exploring that route with the character.
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Also, if they were an opposite sex clone of Kaido, why do they have different hair color, skin tone, height....
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If Rocks D Xebec doesn’t have a clone how do you think he will he come back into the story?
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@access-timeco As Cockycent pointed out, Yamato's most important function is to inherit Oden's will and then fulfill it; becoming the actual protector of Wano. I've talked about this before, but Yamato also contrasts with Momo, who has a body like Oden's, but was never fit to speak like him or take on his role. Yamato gets to be an "Oden" that stays and protects their "family."
Yamato is also the character who best contextualizes Kaido's particular brand of personal cruelty and attempted will-breaking without the Orochi baggage alongside it. I think understanding Kaido, the parent, is pretty vital and Yamato as another Oni gave Oda the opportunity to play with that.
I also don't like Yamato and think Oda failed for a lot of reasons with the character, but I don't believe joining or not would affect much about that. A lot of the critiques about Yamato's role in the story are correct, but Oda didn't invent him for nothing. Character and overarching themes are just as important as "plot."
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@andre except Momo is now also the Oden that stays and protects his family and country. As is, Momo and Yamato don't contrast, they overlap.
Forget joining the crew, Yamato didn't even get to say a single line about the demise if his father.
Even if he's supposed to be the prime example of the extent of Kaido's willbreaking MO, that doesn't really work. He never lost his resolve and eagerly joined forces with any ostile invader the second they set foot on Onigashima.
I'm sure Oda will eventually sneak in some purpose for the guy, but I find really hard to argue against that up until now Yams was just a waste of time, space and a cool design.Curiosity has its own reason for existing
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With all the cutaway updates on various factions we've been having; I'm starting to wonder where the line is on who will or won't get cutaways.
Shanks would be the front runner of who I'd expect to still get one. The government faction hasn't shown us Fujitora or Smoker yet. Cross guild? Will the Grand Fleet groups get a small update seeing them on the move? The other Supernovas in Urouge, Bege, and Apoo? Are Drake and Hawkins even alive to get a cutaway? Jozu or Vista now that Marco's still relevant apparently?
I don't know where to draw the line and admittedly that does make things fun with current one piece for me.
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I think that if Caesar had access to cloning technology, he wouldn't have relied on kidnapping children.
I'm not sure what is so expensive in making a Seraphim. Judge can make hundreds of clones, so it is probably not the cloning itself but probably being able to not make a stupid one. -
@Kdom said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
I think that if Caesar had access to cloning technology, he wouldn't have relied on kidnapping children.
Oda can cook up any reason why clones wouldn't be viable subjects for giantification experimentation.
Also, access and know-how are separate. He could have one and not the other. He could also have both and a number of reasons why it wasn't satisfactory.
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During Whole Cake, my theory for why Big Mom wanted the cloning tech was so she could pretty much have an endless number of souls to steal to increase her homie army
in hindsight with the Stussy/Bucking reveal I'm wondering if it was actually for the pursuit of a more tragically sentimental reason: cloning Mother Carmel since she never "found" her.
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@wolfwood said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Greg said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
one more plot-twist clone
Better make it a really dumb one to get proper value for it. Like imu being a failed joy boy clone, or a clone of his arch enemy sad boy. Sad boy had his own world but it blew up so he is sad now, and tries to steal happ boys world. Sad boy is from the moon. And the OP world is also a clone. It needs to be this dumb, or dumber to be worthy of the super secret last minute clone reveal
For conceptual reasons, wouldn't the opposite of Joy Boy in this story be... Soy Boy?
It still rhymes and soy is the opposite of meat.
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I thought we were well past beyond the general understanding that's Sad Lad.
Curiosity has its own reason for existing
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@FolhaS so the final fight is Luffy against the representative of the united vegans? "Breaking news: world-famous manga One Piece a plea for meat consumption"
I like the sound of it, but that's maybe a little extreme even for Oda.
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@Alfiere said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
except Momo is now also the Oden that stays and protects his family and country. As is, Momo and Yamato don't contrast, they overlap.
Their role as a protector overlaps, but I still see Momo as the Shogunate side; more his grandfather than his father. Someone who will actually take their duties seriously, but who doesn't have the pure force of "will" that Oden or Yamato had, which is why Yamato had to stay. I also think Yamato will fulfill the other aspect of Oden and leave for the sea eventually, but only at a time and place when Wano is safe or perhaps on the move.
Forget joining the crew, Yamato didn't even get to say a single line about the demise if his father.
I can't help but read this as kind of an arbitrary thing to bring up in this conversation. Again, i'm not arguing that he told the story the best, but that there was a purpose to the character. I don't think that imperfection really affects what I'm saying.
Even if he's supposed to be the prime example of the extent of Kaido's willbreaking MO, that doesn't really work. He never lost his resolve and eagerly joined forces with any ostile invader the second they set foot on Onigashima.
That's why I said "attempted will-breaking." Yamato contextualizes how cruel Kaido can be, how he attempts to break wills, and how he views the world as a brutal, take-it-by-the-horns meritocracy, even towards his own flesh and blood. Whatever broke Kaido (which is constantly hinted at, but I don't think we get a sufficient for the moment breakdown of) is how he attempts to break others.
I'm sure Oda will eventually sneak in some purpose for the guy, but I find really hard to argue against that up until now Yams was just a waste of time, space and a cool design.
I think there's something to be said for Oda's pacing not fulfilling promises in a timeframe that matches what we readers crave, but I still think that he typically does answer them eventually. My guess is that other roles of Yamato will become much clearer in the future. It won't necessarily make people as happy as if they got what they wanted when it wanted, but it a lot of people will like it.
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If you ask me anything bad about Yams stems from the original sin of creating Oden. Or anything bad about Japanland in general.
Step one, make the most unlikeable creature alive
Step two, give him the full Poochie treatment and connect everyone of note into one long self-eating fellatio line around him
Step 3, ????
Step 4, Wano is a mess
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@wolfwood said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
@Alfiere when they cloned him there was some slight degeneration in the name DNA so his clone is sad boy now, which makes him even more tragic. Plus joy boy kept laughing at him
Mh, the science checks out. Guess you're right.
@andre said in [Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !]
I can't help but read this as kind of an arbitrary thing to bring up in this conversation. Again, i'm not arguing that he told the story the best, but that there was a purpose to the character. I don't think that imperfection really affects what I'm saying.
It was an example of a different angle of Yamato's Arc other than the "joining the crew" one still not going anywhere. You'd think that Kaido's lifelong abused son would have some insight on the demise of his father and the beast pirates, but not even a small sigh of relief was shown. It's not a problem of imperfect storytelling, but one of the many ways Yamato's presence in the story turned out completely pointless.
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Beyond the lack of reaction to Kaidous defeat, I was confounded that the "You have the blood of an Oni! The Samurai will hate you!" angle never got more play. Like, Wano closes with a photo of Yamato hanging out with the other retainers like they're pals...but we skip completely over the part where the other scabbards come to terms with the literal son of Kaidou wanting to be their friend. With very, very few exceptions I don't think they were even aware of Yamas existence before the group pose?
Yams' relation to the Beast Pirates by the end also felt weirdly undercooked. Despite his utter enforced isolation Yamato managed to make a genuine friend in that one six-legged Numbers guy...who then seems to fall out of the manga. The Beast pirates in general seems to hold Yamato in some esteem, though Yamato doesn't seem to care about them at all (apart from that one time he...briefly defended Onagashima from Ace? For reasons), but then at the end Yamato can use his status to compel the remaining Beast pirates to stand down...and then the remaining beast pirates, and Yamatos relation to them, also seem to fall out of the manga.
Yamato feels like a character cooked up by Oda in a fit of creative passion, like the supernovas, but only here the heat was on to immediately find a narrative use for Yamato, and nothing ever really stuck.
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The Wanoese were way too busy shouting their war cry about the charcoal clan to worry about ogres
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@Daz completely agreed. As many problems with Wano, it always comes to the same conclusion: the arc lacked an extra 5-10 chapters to expand Kaido's flashbacks (plural) and the epilogue. So many rushed plots, or threads that were left hanging, or ignored entirely, could have been settled in a more satisfying manner, it would have avoided the bitter aftertaste.
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@Daz said in Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !:
I was confounded that the "You have the blood of an Oni! The Samurai will hate you!" angle never got more play.
And let's not forget the flashback back then where even the most hardcore samurai, including Zoro-Dad, basically instantly embosomed Yamato and just gave up all their food without any second thought.
Seriously, that "You have the blood of an Oni! The Samurai will hate you!" angle just is one of these many subplots nowadays which just completely lacks any emotional weight it could - and should - have had.
Like, in chapter 1025 it just has absolutely no emotional weight when Kaido says something like "It doesn't matter what you do, the samurai will never consider you one of them. You are alone!!!". Because that was already perfectly proven as completely wrong by chapter 1024.
Just imagine if, back in Alabasta when Crocodile roasted Vivi, she actually successfully roasted back at him...
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Oh right Zoro dad. I forgot about him
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Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
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Imu sitting in his five grandparents basement shouting -It's not a phase!
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@Greg I was wondering: given how the end is nigh and there's a lot of litteral groud left to cover, is it possible that next time the crew splits on different islands (if), we get to follow in real time each of the two (?) parties?
In other words, is it thinkable to get the present-day camera off of Luffy's neck for an actual, however short, arc, or that just something this manga doesn't do, no matter what?Curiosity has its own reason for existing
