Dancing naked in front of everybody is also very Oden.
Hey, this can be Yamato’s role on the ship, the dancer!
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)
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Is just so hard to think of Yamato as a one arc character, or better said, half an arc character.
Really feels like its going to keep being around.
Yeah, when most of the character's dialogue is BIG PLOT TALK, this is most likely the case. I will never forget how Yamato tried to brush off Luffy when Ace mentioned him. As soon as he heard that Luffy said the same as Roger, then he jumped on the bandwagon.
Yamato is mostly seen carrying the chosen ones like the Infinity Gauntlet at the end of Endgame. First Luffy, then Momo and Shinobu. It's like hot potato for who he becomes. Retainer or Straw Hat
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You're calling this the climax yet the fights have barely started, we only got the Tobbi Roppo when we got to Onigashima and it was when Yamato was first mentioned.
Onigashima is to Wano what Ennies Lobby is to Water 7, imo.
Yes, it's the final confrontation, it's built direcly on top of what was happening in the previous island, and it's deeply connected, but it's also it's own little story arc, with it's own beats.So far we could compare Yamato to the two giants that were protecting the entrance of EL.
There's a connection to previous characters in order build the world and they become allies and help in the final push, whatever it may be.
Granted, Yamato has been given much more spotlight than the giants, he seems more relevant to this arc than the giants were in EL.The funny thing is Onigashima is flying in the Flower capital direction anyway, so a polemic won't even arise about arcs categorization unlike with W7/EL/Sea train.
"he seems more relevant to this arc than the giants were in EL."
That's the problem. She's so relevant out of sudden but came out of thin air without proper build up or foreshadowing. The giants weren't that prominent in their arc as you said and the judicial island having some sort of special security was a given. They feel more organic than her.
It's never just one person that links an island to a current dilemma. You could include a few of the scabbards, but some of them were sent to the future and didn't experience the years of suffering. Neither did Inu or Neko exactly. Characters like Tama, Shinobu, Yasuie, and those that have been there for years would count. I'm lumping Yamato in with that group for now because he helps show how terrible Kaido is (locking up his own child and putting a penalty of death on him if he leaves). Oda could've held him held back intentionally until the setting actually moved to Onigashima. Let's not forget it's on a different island. As for Yamato, he serves so many narrative purposes (Ace flashback, Oden's journal, how bad Kaido can be, a potential red herring (with red horns) :), a potential SH, etc.) that it's hard for me to figure out wth Oda is doing.
"It's never just one person that links an island to a current dilemma"
I dind't cite only one person, and i could cite even more since you counted "the citzens" for Fish-Man island and the citzens of Wano, like the ones of Okobore and Ebisu, are more relevant in the context of the arc than the mermaid cafe and Tom-san's brother were in FI. Wano had already enough of this type of character prior to Yamato.
"You could include a few of the scabbards, but some of them were sent to the future and didn't experience the years of suffering."
What happened 20 years ago was already enough for the Straw Hats, some of then cried when Kinemon told them the story, and this scene happened in Wano.
"Yamato in with that group for now because he helps show how terrible Kaido is"
Kinda dispensable at that pont to be honest.
"that it's hard for me to figure out wth Oda is doing."
We will only know for sure in the end of the arc.
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Hi te everyone !
I was thinking today about who of the next candidates will give a better story in one piece, such as vivi, monet, carrot, yamato, boa etc etc… Well, I will try explain myself in the best way I can. In my opinion, of course that i will be wrong, i am not a friend of Oda or anything jajaja. I think yamato could give a better script. She is the daughter of kaido and has the book of oden, and i think in that way we will find new adventures. In the other hand, with carrot will be more difficult. She had never left before away from zou. She had no bonds with anyone. With momo, is the same with yamato. He is the son of oden, he will give a better script like yamato. Boa instead, nowadays is the girl with less possibilities to join. But, she is a former warlord, something great will wait for us... Monet, for example is an astrology, her sister had a rare power and she also had a bad past. She will give a new scrpit for the mugiwaras. And well, the most important right now will be vivi... She is somewhere and maybe with sabo... Well, i am trying to say that will be better if we think the man or girl who gives a better script in one piece story...
Thanks for read!
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The funny thing is Onigashima is flying in the Flower capital direction anyway, so a polemic won't even arise about arcs categorization unlike with W7/EL/Sea train.
"he seems more relevant to this arc than the giants were in EL."
That's the problem. She's so relevant out of sudden but came out of thin air without proper build up or foreshadowing. The giants weren't that prominent in their arc as you said and the judicial island having some sort of special security was a given. They feel more organic than her.
That's true, and Onigashima was always part of Wano. It just that the transition to a smalled adjacent island fits with the act structure for me, ya know?
If you think of each Act as a small arc, despite them being on the same country, Yamato just feels like the new friend they made at the beggining of this arc, like Tama was the friend they made at the beginning of Act 1.And it really is the spotlight that makes Yamato stand out, with a little less exposure he could just be another side character-surprise ally to help tie some threads.
That's what gives nakama vibes, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, and Chopper stood out from the moment they appeared, we knew they were going to be important for the arc and that most likely they would join, since the story was still in it's early moments. Then we had a surpise Robin, a "mistery" to figure out which of the shipwrights would join Luffy, Brook stood out from the start too, and then Jinbe was built up for the longest time, and rose from ally to nakama. And with this we have the crew Oda envisioned innitialy.Now it seems he'll give us another crew member, something he decided after starting publication and possibily not that long ago. So Yamato feels something like old-school nakama, he stood out the minute he appeared and interacted bluntly with Luffy. It feels like Oda dind't want to do the same thing he did with Jinbe, so he went old-school.
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I think the general consensus has been 11 total since Luffy announced his "10 crew members" thing at the start of the series. If Oda does eventually go the way of Yamato as a SH, then it technically would be something new. Introducing a SH candidate right as an arc (seemingly) started it's climax would definitely be new.
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If Kaido is the Azure Dragon and Yamato is the White Tiger, than who will represent the other two of the four mythological creatures?
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Retainer
I'm really not getting where you're taking this perception from.
The latest volume made it so evident that a Millenial like Yamato doesn't click at all with the Baby Boomer Scabbards generation.
Shinobu is just part of said generation as well, and sadly never really get the former title of a retainer.
But thing is, IF there was really a narrative of creating the Red Scabbards S plus, shouldn't there be like more than ONE actual candidate to represent the new generation besides Yamato by now??
I'm really just not seeing the Lone Scabbard happening at all.
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Yamato doesn't have to fit with the older scabbards. He's from a new generation, from a different background and, more importantly, if he becomes a retainer, it's to serve under Momonosuke, not under Oden like the previous samurai. Different groups, same theme. That is, if Yamato becomes a retainer, which is far from a certainty.
And it's not only Yamato who would join this new team. Obviously Shinobu too, who despite being there when Oden was alive, is not portrayed as a scabbard like the others who are known for the title and fought at the rooftop, and now Shinobu became Momo's babysitter. Tama is another one who was tagging along with Momo before and could become a retainer, even training ninjutsu under Shinobu and Raizo. That's three already.
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I'm really not getting where you're taking this perception from.
The latest volume made it so evident that a Millenial like Yamato doesn't click at all with the Baby Boomer Scabbards generation.
Shinobu is just part of said generation as well, and sadly never really get the former title of a retainer.
But thing is, IF there was really a narrative of creating the Red Scabbards S plus, shouldn't there be like more than ONE actual candidate to represent the new generation besides Yamato by now??
I'm really just not seeing the Lone Scabbard happening at all.
You're referring to Oden's retainers and i'm talking about Momo's
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You're referring to Oden's retainers and i'm talking about Momo's
To which there's no parallels at all.
Where the other 8 Blue Sbabbies are?
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To which there's no parallels at all.
Where the other 8 Blue Sbabbies are?
Why do the Momo retainers have to mirror the Scabbards? Jibuemon wasn't part of some 9 man group. The Scabbards are exclusive to Oden, but his father before him had retainers. Retainers don't mean 9, unless you have some theory where Momo can only have retainers if it's 9 of them
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Both possibilities exist at the current point in the story.
What we can surmise with confidence is if Yamato does become a retainer to Momonosuke, they ain't staying in Wano Kuni once the Wano Kuni Arc is over. If the retainers are required to stay beside Momonosuke to protect/serve him, Yamato unfortunately will have to forgo the opportunity of serving Shogun Momonosuke in favour of the dream they have been yearning for for over 20 years.
Oda has been very particular in expressing the deep seeded desire Yamato has of sailing the seas, adventuring and being free. At this point it does not seem likely for Yamato to remain in Wano Kuni once the arc is over.
If Yamato is to be an international representative to Momonosuke and Wano Kuni, they may be story to tell of Yamato adventuring and sailing the sails but one has to wonder how the lack of people skills Yamato has will serve them in their position as a nation representative. Someone more mature, diplomatic and experienced would serve the position and Wano Kuni better. If Hiyori needs a role once the Wano Kuni Arc ends, she could be the international Wano Kuni Liason. Hiyori does match the 'princess' type characters Oda likes to portray as representatives of nations.
What I expect to happen is for Yamato to at least travel with the Straw Hat Pirates for a time until they make it to Ace's gravestone where Luffy and Yamato can express the fulfillment of Ace’s promise from 3-4 years ago via pouring sake cups and sharing a drink. If Sabo joins up with the crew before this moment, than the three of them could share a drink with Ace at his gravestone.
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Yamato doesn't have to fit with the older scabbards. He's from a new generation, from a different background and, more importantly, if he becomes a retainer, it's to serve under Momonosuke, not under Oden like the previous samurai. Different groups, same theme. That is, if Yamato becomes a retainer, which is far from a certainty.
And it's not only Yamato who would join this new team. Obviously Shinobu too, who despite being there when Oden was alive, is not portrayed as a scabbard like the others who are known for the title and fought at the rooftop, and now Shinobu became Momo's babysitter. Tama is another one who was tagging along with Momo before and could become a retainer, even training ninjutsu under Shinobu and Raizo. That's three already.
Is it really necessary for a new set of retainers? Never mind that Kin'emon, Raizo and Kiku are still young (heck, they're younger than Shinobu) while the others are still strong fighters.
It's like people think the 9 Scabbards will just retire or something. If that happened, then I could see the necessity of a new retainer, but that's very unlikely to happen since they're so loyal.
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If Kaido is the Azure Dragon and Yamato is the White Tiger, than who will represent the other two of the four mythological creatures?
Good question. I had this crazy idea that Shanks is the Vermillion Bird, but in name only, due to his sword being named Gryphon. Another idea around this, is that while Shanks has no DF, maybe his sword does, having eaten/been infused with a mythical gryphon zoan that is capable of summoning red lightning as how he does in One Piece Pirate Warriors 3 and 4. I mean, Shanks is the captain of the "Red" Haired Pirates, and his sword is named Gryphon. That alone could be a hidden reference to the Vermillion Bird.
As for the Black Tortoise, yeah, that is a difficult one. I could imagine Pekoms, if alive, representing the creature via his Turtle Turtle Fruit when he applies Hardening to his shelled form. Another option/idea would be that the Blackbeard Pirates could have a DF user that has the mythical variant of the Kame Kame no Mi.
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I think all Wano nakama candidates will form their own crew.
Yamato will decide to travel, Momo will choose to go with him to become strong, as well as a diplomatic endeavor to open Wano to the world, leaving Hiyori as temporary shogun.
Shinobu and Carrot will be his retainers. Carrot joins because of the chance of seeing other countries, and because opening Wano is essential to the Dawn.
Tama will tag along to become a kunoichi.
Maybe there will be others. Maybe Hitetsu and/or Kin’emon.
Most, if not all, of the current scabbards will stay in Wano with Hiyori.Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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I think all Wano nakama candidates will form their own crew.
Yamato will decide to travel, Momo will choose to go with him to become strong, as well as a diplomatic endeavor to open Wano to the world, leaving Hiyori as temporary shogun.
Shinobu and Carrot will be his retainers. Carrot joins because of the chance of seeing other countries, and because opening Wano is essential to the Dawn.
Tama will tag along to become a kunoichi.
Maybe there will be others. Maybe Hitetsu and/or Kin’emon.
Most, if not all, of the current scabbards will stay in Wano with Hiyori.Exactly what i've been thinking as a strong possibility
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There's a very high chance that Hitetsu turns out to be Sukiyaki and he takes over as shogun again until Momo comes off age.
So there's that to consider.
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Is it really necessary for a new set of retainers? Never mind that Kin'emon, Raizo and Kiku are still young (heck, they're younger than Shinobu) while the others are still strong fighters.
It's like people think the 9 Scabbards will just retire or something. If that happened, then I could see the necessity of a new retainer, but that's very unlikely to happen since they're so loyal.
Is it really necessary? No. It's speculation and interpretation. But think about the topic regardless of Yamato, Tama and Shinobu, just as a topic in itself.
I am of the opinion that the relationship between Momo and the scabbards is different from the relationship between Oden and his scabbards. They loved Oden and that's why they followed him. Now, however, their loyalty to Momonosuke comes more from a place of duty and deference to the lineage than from admiration itself. That matters. Ashura Douji even said something like that, "I was a samurai who put his life on the line outta devotion to one man - Kouzuki Oden, I didn't swear no fealty to the entire clan!". Well, Ashura Douji is a little bit of a tsundere, and he was full of resentment when he said that, but that's kinda true, and I think it's the same for all the others one way or another.
Obviously, the scabbards are not going anywhere (if they don't die), and they'll be loyal to Kouzuki like samurai are supposed to be. Nevertheless, it's appropriate for Momonosuke to have his own personal set of retainers to start his rule, or at least that would be more meaningful in order to show growth and independence, and a better way to follow on the footsteps of his father. It's not the best sight if all of his most loyal and closest officials are relics from his father's time.
In fact, I actually do believe that the current scabbards will be promoted to more important positions or even retire. Denjiro will probably keep being the Yakuza boss of the Flower Caital; Ashura Douji could become Daimyo of Kuri; Neko and Inu will come back to ruling the Mokomo Dukedom; Raizo the new boss of the Oniwabanshu; all the others are less clear, but there are important roles for them in all different regions of Wano. That's the most fitting ending for them, in my opinion.
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@theackwardstation Only if they survive because I can see a Scabbard or 2 dying before all this is over
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In the utmost act of living like Oden Yams should leave Wano when it needed him. Supporting your country, being responsible, caring about what would be best for others. These are all decidedly un-Oden things to do, you could only be forced into doing any of these by having harsh limiting bonds placed up on you. I for one hope Yams goes full freedom, steals their celebration booze and hitches a ride on the anchor of the next unwilling crew going out of dead end Wano. Doesn't matter where it is going as long as it isn't Wano
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Obviously, the scabbards are not going anywhere (if they don't die), and they'll be loyal to Kouzuki like samurai are supposed to be. Nevertheless, it's appropriate for Momonosuke to have his own personal set of retainers to start his rule, or at least that would be more meaningful in order to show growth and independence, and a better way to follow on the footsteps of his father. It's not the best sight if all of his most loyal and closest officials are relics from his father's time.
In fact, I actually do believe that the current scabbards will be promoted to more important positions or even retire. Denjiro will probably keep being the Yakuza boss of the Flower Caital; Ashura Douji could become Daimyo of Kuri; Neko and Inu will come back to ruling the Mokomo Dukedom; Raizo the new boss of the Oniwabanshu; all the others are less clear, but there are important roles for them in all different regions of Wano. That's the most fitting ending for them, in my opinion.
But does that change anything at all? The Oniwabanshu, for example, are all retainers. And all the daimyo are effectively the shogun's servants. Shinobu herself was a retainer from Sukiyaki's time. Hell, Denjiro was Orochi's retainer, and being a mafia boss didn't stop him from doing his retainer job.
Oden was a special case because he was a daimyo and couldn't utilize his father's men since he had been disgraced. The shogun is the highest authority, so pretty much everybody in any position is going to be his retainer by default.
The Red Scabbards by themselves are not a special or official force or anything. They're just 9 samurai that happen to be the strongest. Denjiro, for example, was Oden's treasurer, since he oversaw his funds.
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But does that change anything at all? The Oniwabanshu, for example, are all retainers. And all the daimyo are effectively the shogun's servants. Shinobu herself was a retainer from Sukiyaki's time. Hell, Denjiro was Orochi's retainer, and being a mafia boss didn't stop him from doing his retainer job.
Oden was a special case because he was a daimyo and couldn't utilize his father's men since he had been disgraced. The shogun is the highest authority, so pretty much everybody in any position is going to be his retainer by default.
The Red Scabbards by themselves are not a special or official force or anything. They're just 9 samurai that happen to be the strongest. Denjiro, for example, was Oden's treasurer, since he oversaw his funds.
I think you're extrapolating the generic meaning of "retainer" and losing sight of what their roles truly mean here, and especially the type of bond that made them such.
Btw, by this perspective, your original question doesn't even make sense - _"_Is it really necessary for a new set of retainers?" Well, in this case, not only it's necessary, but Momonosuke will effectively have hundreds of new retainers in the future.
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I don't know why everyone wants Yamato to repeat Vivi's story arc note for note.
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Don't worry, not a single note is being repeated.
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"Well golly, I sure would like to go off and have adventure in the open sea… but I guess I'll stay in my country due to duty and stuff."
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If things were to happen exactly like that - which hardly would be the case -, then it would be ONE note being repeated, not "to repeat Vivi's story arc note for note" as that's completely not true. Also, the fact that Vivi and Yamato's stories as whole are very different in premise and development, this distinction already gives different color to that "note" because of the different ways in which they got there at the end. Even if it's the same note, ending with a C major chord is completely different if the song is in the key of C or in the key of E, so it's a misleading similarity. They're just different stories with different messages and conclusions.
In any case, from your oversimplification, I suppose we should say the same about Carrot, right? Even more appropriate, I'd say, given the trajectory. Carrot SH confirmed otherwise we're repeating Vivi's story arc note for note? lol
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Yamato should have selfishly denied caring about Momo and stuck by Luffy if he's a real SH. Instead, he felt obligated as Oden to be there for his son. Yamato obviously puts Momo protection over that puny Straw Hat job
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In the utmost act of living like Oden Yams should leave Wano when it needed him. Supporting your country, being responsible, caring about what would be best for others. These are all decidedly un-Oden things to do, you could only be forced into doing any of these by having harsh limiting bonds placed up on you. I for one hope Yams goes full freedom, steals their celebration booze and hitches a ride on the anchor of the next unwilling crew going out of dead end Wano. Doesn't matter where it is going as long as it isn't Wano
I can see this happening easily.
Typical OP, Yamato thinks he should stay out of duty but decides to escape to sail the seas, not telling anyone so they won't stop him, but actually everybody is expecting for him to leave so they just go to the shore and wave goodbye, everybody cries and laughs, end of arc.
Happend to Usopp, Nami, Sanji, Chopper, the gold from Skypea, Franky, Jinbe… There's a certain pattern here. -
Why the hell would Momo need to travel?
He is the symbol of Kozuki that the Samurai put their hopes on to improve Wa No, if like Robby said anybody would repeat Vivi´s character arc, it´s him. The only difference is, he has never once stated any desire to travel, nevermind that there is no time whatsoever between Wa No ending and Wa no being needed as major ally for the final war, and Momo is one of the key people in that war due to his heritage.
As far as i know, there has never been a female Shogun in 700 years of the position existing, why would Oda shoehorn Hiyori in there in an arc that is resembling feudal Japan and possibly end of Tokugawa period?
Momo also inherited the voice of all things as another key sign he is the rightful heir.If Momo needs strength, he has 9 retainers who can teach him Oden´s techniques.
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Why do the Momo retainers have to mirror the Scabbards?
The lone retainer theory doesn't work at all.
If we were talking at least of four, or five new generation Scabbies, that'll be something.
So far, seems baseless.
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Yamato is not staying in Wano. Oda went out of his way to make it very clear that Yamato's been chained for decades and she wants to go out and explore like her idol. Ace was supposed to be her Roger but he died and Luffy inherited his will so now Luffy is her Roger which no shit given how everyone says Luffy is like Roger.
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Vivi manages a country under the umbrella of the World Government, in Paradise. It aint Little East Blue level unexciting, but there is no sense of danger or adventure involved whatsoever. She's even safe from Tenryubito shenanigans (outside of Imu / Gorosei freakouts).
Momonosuke / Hyori / the Scabbards will have to literally start from scratch in every possible way. First they will have to convince the Wanoese that opening the country can be a great thing, then establish routes connecting the various New World islands and finally establish diplomatic relationships with their "neighbors".
And all of it will happen in the NEW WORLD. I know Oda didn't deliver what he originally teased, but that place is a horrific shithole. Just visiting most islands is an adventure in itself, it doesn't matter under which banner.
Yamato would still get the full package by becoming Momo's scabbard, just minus the Laugh Tale experience and possibly Elbaf.1. He can protect / support Momonosuke, he already said he would die for him after all
2. He would naturally accompany him on his travels, and there is basically no difference between sailing under a Whitebeard or sailing under Momo. They will visit islands and get into trouble, at least more often than not. I assume there would be no Marines going after them, but who cares about Marines anyway…
Remember when Oden used to run off on his own and the others would tell him to not attack civilians? It will be the exact same dynamic in a Momo / Yamato / Shinobu / Tama (possibly Carrot) scenario. There will be no shackles or leashes for Yamato - and if there are he would simply ignore them. Just like Oden did.
If you ask me what I personally want then my answer would be clear: Sure, throw Yamato on board please, no reasons needed. If only because I like his design and the prospect of him T-baguaing people.
But him becoming Momo's Scabbard simply checks too many boxes, it might even allow Oda to deliver on the unvisited New World islands in a cover story (Raijin Island, Air Road island, Gravity Island etc.).
Why the hell would Momo need to travel?
Why would Vivi need to travel? Why would Shirahoshi need to travel? You know, the living Ancient Weapon?
Because diplomatic efforts demand travel and they demand a representative of status. We could also switch Momo's and Hiyori's roles, but I believe Momo will push himself to the "open Wano" cause, and he won't weasel himself out of the dangerous parts (despite everyone trying to talk him out of it).
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Who said Yamato is the only retainer?
Tell me about those other nex gen candidates to form the new set of Scabbies.
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I don't know why everyone wants Yamato to repeat Vivi's story arc note for note.
Is it really all that surprising people come up with bad arguments against characters they don't want on?
This thread hell pretty much all nakama threads are filled with it.
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Tama, Carrot, Yamato and their leader Shinobu. That's how I see it possibly going for Momo's retainers.
Tama is not even a kunoichi at this point.
Carrot is a musketeer, and considering the Mokomo Dukedom has never been an independient nation, but rather an extention of the Kozuki's military power, and that the Minks as a whole obey to Inu and Neko, whom both obey to Momo, what you're proposing right there is that Carrot would be outperforming the dukes in terms of hierarchy.
Shinobu is not even Next Gen, and if anything, if Izou gets back to piracy, Shinobu would be and it fits to be, Izou replacement among the Baby Boomer Scabbards.
Yamato is Momo's father, that alone prevents him from becoming a servant.
There really is no narrative plot line going the way of a new set of Scabbies at all, not to mention half of those guys haven't even interacted with each other up to this point, only Yamato and Shinobu have if my memory serves right.
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Sigh, people. I'm only trying to protect you!
Can't you see that Yamato will just break your heart? He's a heartbreaker.
Model Bon Clay, with a pinch of Vivi and a thin layer of Perona.
But it's alright, when everything is said and done I will be here for you. To comfort you, to wipe away the tears (mostly mine, but also yours! Promised!).
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Vivi manages a country under the umbrella of the World Government, in Paradise. It aint Little East Blue level unexciting, but there is no sense of danger or adventure involved whatsoever. She's even safe from Tenryubito shenanigans (outside of Imu / Gorosei freakouts).
Momonosuke / Hyori / the Scabbards will have to literally start from scratch in every possible way. First they will have to convince the Wanoese that opening the country can be a great thing, then establish routes connecting the various New World islands and finally establish diplomatic relationships with their "neighbors".
And all of it will happen in the NEW WORLD. I know Oda didn't deliver what he originally teased, but that place is a horrific shithole. Just visiting most islands is an adventure in itself, it doesn't matter under which banner.
Yamato would still get the full package by becoming Momo's scabbard, just minus the Laugh Tale experience and possibly Elbaf.1. He can protect / support Momonosuke, he already said he would die for him after all
2. He would naturally accompany him on his travels, and there is basically no difference between sailing under a Whitebeard or sailing under Momo. They will visit islands and get into trouble, at least more often than not. I assume there would be no Marines going after them, but who cares about Marines anyway…
Remember when Oden used to run off on his own and the others would tell him to not attack civilians? It will be the exact same dynamic in a Momo / Yamato / Shinobu / Tama (possibly Carrot) scenario. There will be no shackles or leashes for Yamato - and if there are he would simply ignore them. Just like Oden did.
If you ask me what I personally want then my answer would be clear: Sure, throw Yamato on board please, no reasons needed. If only because I like his design and the prospect of him T-baguaing people.
But him becoming Momo's Scabbard simply checks too many boxes, it might even allow Oda to deliver on the unvisited New World islands in a cover story (Raijin Island, Air Road island, Gravity Island etc.).
Why would Vivi need to travel? Why would Shirahoshi need to travel? You know, the living Ancient Weapon?
Because diplomatic efforts demand travel and they demand a representative of status. We could also switch Momo's and Hiyori's roles, but I believe Momo will push himself to the "open Wano" cause, and he won't weasel himself out of the dangerous parts (despite everyone trying to talk him out of it).
The Laughtale experience is literally the key, can´t say "just not Laughtale". It´s the key experience Oden, well, experienced, his final words were in regards to that, it´s not something that is just an afterthought.
When have these characters ever done "diplomatic travels". Why argue with characters who have never been shown to do so?
There is only one context they have been shown to travel, that´s Reverie, which is literally the major opportunity to forge diplomatic ties, seeing almost every major country in the world. -
Tama is not even a kunoichi at this point.
Carrot is a musketeer, and considering the Mokomo Dukedom has never been an independient nation, but rather an extention of the Kozuki's military power, and that the Minks as a whole obey to Inu and Neko, whom both obey to Momo, what you're proposing right there is that Carrot would be outperforming the dukes in terms of hierarchy.
Shinobu is not even Next Gen, and if anything, if Izou gets back to piracy, Shinobu would be and it fits to be, Izou replacement among the Baby Boomer Scabbards.
Yamato is Momo's father, that alone prevents him from becoming a servant.
There really is no narrative plot line going the way of a new set of Scabbies at all, not to mention half of those guys haven't even interacted with each other up to this point, only Yamato and Shinobu have if my memory serves right.
What was Kinemon before he joined Oden? He forced himself on him. He was nothing but a low life.
Ashura Doji was a bandit.
I don't see how Tama can't be a retainer. Why do you have to be a kunoichi to be a retainer when former retainers had no such rule?
It was about who the Lord acknowledges.
Tama can do what she wants and schemed to help Luffy with Momo in tow. Yamato has chosen to protect Momo for the time being over staying with Luffy.
Carrot becoming a retainer will outperform Neko and Inu? What chapter did that come from?
Izo was gone for a while and Shinobu never became a retainer for Oden. How does that fit now that he's dead? Shinobu and Yamato have spent most of their Onigashima War time trying to protect Momo.
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Oh btw, i´d rather not have anybody join at this point considering how crowded the Strawhats already are, plus the illustration of forsaking their own fate for Luffy through the timeskip has created a tightness in the crew that is hard to match by anybody not being part of it. Jinbe could make up for it because he was there when the others were not in Luffy´s most challenging time, maybe ever.
Yamato waiting to meet Luffy because he has heard of him through Ace does not even come close.
But i don´t argue what i want but what i see.
Momo ain´t leaving Wa No until the final war, Yamato wants to leave Wa No above all else. -
I mean the i'm Oden thing seems like a coping mechanism that will be phased put and replaced with a healthier belief that he can be as great as he feels Oden was without the need to pretend to be him. Him continuing to cosplay Oden for the rest of his life and being locked into taking care of the fallout of his irresponsible life feels like the darkest timeline to me. But i guess that depends on if you feel the i'm Oden thing is here to stay and is what will define his life. Me i'm betting hard that Yams will be in healthier place before this is all over and will set out to live his own life. Preferably not in the SH crew, but outside of shithole Wano
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Vivi manages a country under the umbrella of the World Government, in Paradise. It aint Little East Blue level unexciting, but there is no sense of danger or adventure involved whatsoever. She's even safe from Tenryubito shenanigans (outside of Imu / Gorosei freakouts).
Momonosuke / Hyori / the Scabbards will have to literally start from scratch in every possible way. First they will have to convince the Wanoese that opening the country can be a great thing, then establish routes connecting the various New World islands and finally establish diplomatic relationships with their "neighbors".
And all of it will happen in the NEW WORLD. I know Oda didn't deliver what he originally teased, but that place is a horrific shithole. Just visiting most islands is an adventure in itself, it doesn't matter under which banner.
Yamato would still get the full package by becoming Momo's scabbard, just minus the Laugh Tale experience and possibly Elbaf.1. He can protect / support Momonosuke, he already said he would die for him after all
2. He would naturally accompany him on his travels, and there is basically no difference between sailing under a Whitebeard or sailing under Momo. They will visit islands and get into trouble, at least more often than not. I assume there would be no Marines going after them, but who cares about Marines anyway…
Remember when Oden used to run off on his own and the others would tell him to not attack civilians? It will be the exact same dynamic in a Momo / Yamato / Shinobu / Tama (possibly Carrot) scenario. There will be no shackles or leashes for Yamato - and if there are he would simply ignore them. Just like Oden did.
If you ask me what I personally want then my answer would be clear: Sure, throw Yamato on board please, no reasons needed. If only because I like his design and the prospect of him T-baguaing people.
But him becoming Momo's Scabbard simply checks too many boxes, it might even allow Oda to deliver on the unvisited New World islands in a cover story (Raijin Island, Air Road island, Gravity Island etc.).
Why would Vivi need to travel? Why would Shirahoshi need to travel? You know, the living Ancient Weapon?
Because diplomatic efforts demand travel and they demand a representative of status. We could also switch Momo's and Hiyori's roles, but I believe Momo will push himself to the "open Wano" cause, and he won't weasel himself out of the dangerous parts (despite everyone trying to talk him out of it).
I really don't think Momo would be brought to travels for that sorta thing, especially when they have more capable people to do so like… any of the Scabbards really. They studied economics and shit for years while Momo has little knowledge and experience. He most likely would remain in-land training and studying like the Scabbards did so he could become a great shogun in the future.
Momo is still an 8-year old and his role is still more as a figurehead than anything. No diplomat would take him seriously.
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When have these characters ever done "diplomatic travels". Why argue with characters who have never been shown to do so?
There is only one context they have been shown to travel, that´s Reverie, which is literally the major opportunity to forge diplomatic ties, seeing almost every major country in the world.Obviously in Paradise only the Revervie / WG is relevant, the point is that diplomatic travels matter - and I would argue even more so in the New World once the reign of the Yonkou is over.
Okay, open question for everyone, not just Miyamoto:
How do you envision Wano country being "opened"? Which concrete measures will be taken to open the country? How will they realize Oden's will? When do you consider it "done"?
It's okay if you just spitball, no need for elaborate theories. Just to get an idea what people expect from Wano after the Yonkou war is over.
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Okay, open question for everyone, not just Miyamoto:
How do you envision Wano country being "opened"? Which concrete measures will be taken to open the country? How will they realize Oden's will? When do you consider it "done"?
It's okay if you just spitball, no need for elaborate theories. Just to get an idea what people expect from Wano after the Yonkou war is over.
My pet theory that nobody cares about is that the main point of "opening the borders of Wano" will be about immigration and unity between different cultures and races, which would be Oda making a statement about Japan itself, which is very isolationist nation even today.
This would tie in with the fishmen and mink plotlines, because both races are looking for a new place to live in - the fishmen want to leave the bottom of the ocean and live under the sun, and the minks came to the realization that Zunesha is old and have feelings too. Conveniently, the minks are allies who are even fighting this war, and Jimbe is a big representant of the fishmen people. I'd even point out how Oda gave the same introduction to Kawamatsu, Inu and Neko in Oden's flashback, showing them as strange creatures coming to the land of Wano and suffering the prejudice of the people:
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What's interesting is that the symbol of Kouzuki have a sun inside it, which is proeminently seen in Luffy's clothes (look below). The "sun" is the main theme of the fishmen people, and the sun is also the reason of the dawn, and Japan is the land of the rising sun, which flag shows a big a red sun. So all of these plotlines that started post-timeskip connect under the same symbol and find their climax in Wano.
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That's mostly it, although I remember bringing up more point when I first wrote the theory.
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Yamato has chosen to protect Momo for the time being over staying with Luffy.
Yamato didn't choose it, it was an order, and she's following it.
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I feel like most of the evidence points to Yamato joining, but it almost seems too obvious, which is what's throwing so many of us off. The beginning stages of our knowledge of Yamato were also rushed and that's a shame. I think a good comparison is Franky, who we heard about before seeing, and then saw for quite a few chapters as a masked and cloaked figure. When he's finally revealed you can tell how much effort Oda put into staging (and then changing) our preconceived notions about what kind of person Franky is along with the design being SUPER all the way around. I think this was his intention with Yamato as well, but there wasn't as much careful foreshadowing and work done. We first hear about him in chapter 977 and he's named in 979, from Kaido and then we see him with the mask on in chapter 983 and fully revealed in 984. I would argue that we don't learn much about him before that to color our perception. In comparison, Franky debuts in 329, but the family in 324, being named in 325. Franky and the family is mentioned between that time. We don't see him fully until chapter 335 and it subverts what we thought he would be like, but doesn't actually betray what we know of him.
I think if we had learned about Yamato before Onigashima (like way before) and if there had been hints about his motivation or personality (which still isn't all that fleshed out) there would be a stronger consensus that he was joining. I say this because I think the intention was for it to be as effective as Franky introduction, which means that Yamato is either joining or was presented in such a way purely as a red herring. We get the same thing we did with the Franky reveal: Foreshadowing, a mask fitting the setting, and mentions from other characters, but it's all compacted into just a few chapters.
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Obviously in Paradise only the Revervie / WG is relevant, the point is that diplomatic travels matter - and I would argue even more so in the New World once the reign of the Yonkou is over.
Okay, open question for everyone, not just Miyamoto:
How do you envision Wano country being "opened"? Which concrete measures will be taken to open the country? How will they realize Oden's will? When do you consider it "done"?
It's okay if you just spitball, no need for elaborate theories. Just to get an idea what people expect from Wano after the Yonkou war is over.
Dressrosa is in the NW, also part of Reverie. What better way to get friendly than to join alliance of the world.
So is Elizabellos country, and i dont quite remember, but Kano might also be, tge chinese equivalent of Wano that Chinjao comes from.Make it more accessible somehow, thats one, maybe Onigashima will change the landscape, including the waterfall.
