I really hope for a two chapter flashback interlude about Reverie as for Ace vs Teach
Chapter 955: ENMA
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1 of the few criticisms that I can agree with is that the cake baking should of been highlighted more, but it is understandable because it was more about hiding their intentions and feeding BM. That's all before you factor in how suffocating Luffy vs Katakuri was to the story
Yeah. It for sure could have been better. I think Oda must have been aware of those possibilities. I think he might have been trying to make a point about Sanji's importance as a cook as a cook being just as important, if not more so, than him as a fighter, and having him fight while cooking may have underminded that. Still, I was looking forward to One Piece x Toriko.
edit: I read your comment and just presumed your extra highlighting of the cake would have included fighting. I see it does not.
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Maybe we will have luffy's fleat incident since Oda spoke about it recently.
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I've seen that kind of thing where Zoro's arm was getting possessed in a couple of other series, so I was hoping it would have been a little bit more of a trial for him to get it under control.
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Why do we still need thousands of men when Luffy could just use CoC ? He did it on 50.000 fishmen, I dont get why it wouldn't work on 30.000 human
Remember Marineford had 100,000 soldiers and most of them survived CoC. I would assume the great part of Kaido's and Orochi's troops would survive those attacks.
The regular fishman is a lot stronger than the regular human. But remember, these AREN'T regular humans.
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What? It has nothing to do with friendship, it's a literal war. You think the proud samurai of Wano would only let the strongest among them fight by themselves? That makes no sense. Whether or not they can take a CoC blast is irrelevant, you're not convincing them to stay home. As good as CoC, practically speaking you still need your average soldiers.
And I'm pretty sure the whole thing with Whitebeard is that he sent his crew/alliance into a war over just one of his sons. That's not comparable at all to people fighting to liberate their country. As for Shanks, for all we know the rest of his men were nearby, but it's a pretty moot point to bring up when Shanks had no intention of fighting a war to begin with.
yeah, friendship/proud whatever.
I'm just saying that people will die and Luffy could stop this by using CoCAnd yes, one of the reasons was that WB was too weak to use CoC or even CoA. That's how he got hit by that damn Squard
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Kai:
Remember Marineford had 100,000 soldiers and most of them survived CoC. I would assume the great part of Kaido's and Orochi's troops would survive those attacks.
That's only because he hadn't mastered his CoC. Otherwise they would have all been knocked out.
Anyways, I hope we'll see enough CoC during that war that's supposed to be bigger than Marineford
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[https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/one-piece-2/en/0/924/page/6
Y](https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/one-piece-2/en/0/924/page/6)eah, sure.
Those 30000 men are irrelevant, the top 30-40 people are gonna be tough especially with Kaido being one of them.
I don't expect no one to be affected just that he wont drop most. Like maybe 500 thousands drop. It would be weird if Luffy dropped 29000 of them I think.
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People criticising Sanji's lack of fights in WCI arc and complaining he was only baking a cake don't get what Oda was trying to do at all. The reason Sanji didn't get a major fight was because Oda felt that there was no reason to prove Sanji's worth strengthwise…sure, his family thinks he is a weakling and thus worthless, but who cares about their opinion? They are scum. If Oda had given us a huge Sanji fight where he beat up a super strong foe, impressing his father and brothers, it would have just validated their opinion that you can only have worth as a person when you are really strong.
This is something that Oda constantly fights against. In Enies Lobby, he could have simply given Usopp a fight against someone from CP9 to deal with his insecurity problems, but instead he made him lose his fight and then focused on his sharpshooting skills instead of his fighting skills because that is what he brings to the table, his unique role in the crew. It's the same with Sanji: he is a cook first,a fighter second. It may have been anticlimactic for fight junkies but imo completely right to focus on his supreme skills as a cook instead of giving his role as a fighter much focus. Because that is what his character is ultimately all about. He may act like a dick oftentimes, but he is ultimately a kind person a heart who likes helping others in need - his role as a cook emphasizes his character perfectly. He even helps his enemies, even if it'll be a disadvantage to him later on, when they are in desperate need of food. Big Mom starving was in a way a replay of Sanji feeding Don Krieg back in the Baratie arc when he was starving, too - it may be foolish to save someone who'll be trying to kill you afterwards, just like it's foolish to save the family that hates you and treats you horribly, but it is who Sanji is as a person and Oda clearly understands his character completely.
People may not like Sanji's character, but I think it's ridiculous to claim that Oda doesn't either and wants to sideline him, especially after just having an arc focusing on his character, including a second flashback to his childhood. You may not like the execution, fine, but you can't handwave the fact that Oda really gave Sanji major, major focus just last arc when he really didn't have to at all.
Also, forget to mention, but since I've just reread the arc recently: I get why some might feel the cake was handled anticlimactically, but reading the whole arc in volume format, it comes much better across how Sanji first saves his crew and then the whole country just with his baking skills.
It's not germa's opinion, it's the fans that claimed for years that sanji is weak now lol, based on his battles with doflamingo and vergo.
And the cake scenario was wierd, not only he gave it to capone so BM doesn't even know who made it, pudding seem to get the credit for it, but it also didn't save anyone. Jimbe, sun pirates, vinsmokes were left behind at BM's mercy.And I don't agree about the cook first. They are pirates first, then whatever role they got on the ship. Cooks don't kick mountain sized giant like a football, or flies, or is part of same M3 as two people fighting for the world's strongest title. And sanji is even better since he is up there with zoro and luffy without magical rubber powers or 3 great grade swords, just using legs. At least until wano.
If sanji was tech based since ever, and no real fighting skills besides it, maybe then you could push the cook first, fighter second thing. -
@uniaka:
It's not germa's opinion, it's the fans that claimed for years that sanji is weak now lol, based on his battles with doflamingo and vergo.
And the cake scenario was wierd, not only he gave it to capone so BM doesn't even know who made it, pudding seem to get the credit for it, but it also didn't save anyone. Jimbe, sun pirates, vinsmokes were left behind at BM's mercy.It's still Germa's opinion, perhaps based on the opinion of fight-junkie fans who think that a main character's worth only depends on how many fights he has won recently.
What does it matter if Big Mom knows Sanji baked the cake? It's not like he did it to impress her or to be praised for his skills. And yeah it saved people. Big Mom was seconds away from annihilating the Sunny and everyone on it. If he hadn't baked a cake that was able to get Big Mom's attention, Nami, Chopper, Brook, Carrot and even Jinbe would probably have been destroyed by her. And these characters weren't left behind, they willingly stayed behind to assure the crew's safety - there is really nothing the cake could have accomplished to prevent that. Also, we might not care as much since there weren't any civilian characters we were emotionally attached to, but that doesn't change the fact that Sanjis cake single-handedly saved the whole country and every person living there from Big Mom's rampage. Just imagine Trump going on an insane rampage and someone stopping him before he destroys New York and then the rest of the U.S. - that's basically what Sanji did just by being a great cook.
And I don't agree about the cook first. They are pirates first, then whatever role they got on the ship. Cooks don't kick mountain sized giant like a football, or flies, or is part of same M3 as two people fighting for the world's strongest title. And sanji is even better since he is up there with zoro and luffy without magical rubber powers or 3 great grade swords, just using legs. At least until wano.
If sanji was tech based since ever, and no real fighting skills besides it, maybe then you could push the cook first, fighter second thing.I don't get what you are saying here at all. Yeah ok they are pirates first as a group, and Sanji's role on the crew is that of the ship's cook. That's what he was recruited for, that's his ultimate service for the crew: he assures that they don't starve or fall ill due to malnutrition. Sure you also have to eb strong to make it to the top, but ultimately everything besides cooking is just extra stuff he brings to the table.
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I just imagined Zoro doing a major workout routine to safe the crew.
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Based on some of the takes here. Oda hears the "Sanji is weak" power scaling madness and it plays a role in how he writes Sanji. This is good to know
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Have you ever been roasted at the speed of light?
Speed is weight and you're not even half my height
Your lines are slow like you got hit with Noro Noro
The difference between us leaves you sad like Horo Horo
Bringing more destruction to your island than Goro Goro
And slicing through your paper-thin bars like Zoro Zoro
I don't explain my powers, I never told 'em
Because I crush my opposition, I don't hand-Holdem
Fruit users drown in the depths of my verses
And vanish after one scene, Whitebeard's nurses
They were built up on false hype like Bobbin
But when they saw me they turned white like Robin
They were just pretenders like Don Krieg
now I'm off to the National Haki League -
Wish I could like these lines MedOrb but they are burning hot.
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It would be better if you didn't rhyme every line. The metaphors were good tho
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Let's not forget that what made Luffy decide to recruit Sanji was feeding Gin. It wasn't his combat prowess or even his cookin skills: it was the fact that he's such a nice guy. So no wonder that's what Oda decided to focus on. Come to think of it, Sanji's role in Baratie was pretty similar to WCI. I'm trying to imagine the discussions back then. 'Sanji is a loser, can't even beat a fodder like Pearl.' 'Meanwhile, Zoro gets praise from the world's strongest swordsman'.
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For people who are confused as to why the brute force of King Kong Gun is needed if Luffy is not touching the opponents, think of swordsman slashes like Mihawk or Zoro.
Mihawk wasn't directly touching Whitebeard/Jozu, but he could still imbue his brute force into the slash. In the same way, Luffy is not directly attacking Kaido's internal organs, but he can still imbue brute strength into that Haki burst.
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Let's not forget that what made Luffy decide to recruit Sanji was feeding Gin. It wasn't his combat prowess or even his cookin skills: it was the fact that he's such a nice guy. So no wonder that's what Oda decided to focus on. Come to think of it, Sanji's role in Baratie was pretty similar to WCI. I'm trying to imagine the discussions back then. 'Sanji is a loser, can't even beat a fodder like Pearl.' 'Meanwhile, Zoro gets praise from the world's strongest swordsman'.
This should be plain given the last scene of Whole Cake.
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((sees the conversation about Sanji still ongoing))
Heavy yawning
So… What's gon be about Bege now??, I still think he's gon find Perona first.
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Let's not forget that what made Luffy decide to recruit Sanji was feeding Gin. It wasn't his combat prowess or even his cookin skills: it was the fact that he's such a nice guy. So no wonder that's what Oda decided to focus on. Come to think of it, Sanji's role in Baratie was pretty similar to WCI. I'm trying to imagine the discussions back then. 'Sanji is a loser, can't even beat a fodder like Pearl.' 'Meanwhile, Zoro gets praise from the world's strongest swordsman'.
Sanji's role in Baratie is pretty similar to WCI indeed. Even his self-sacrifice stance was present there, since he was giving up on his dream to set sail to find All Blue in order to stick with Zeff because of his sense of debt… and it was very hard to convince him to let it go.
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Talk about Zoro and Sanji. Im sure Zoro will show us his CoC, poor Sanji again.
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Talk about Zoro and Sanji. Im sure Zoro will show us his CoC, poor Sanji again.
Not that I disagree because Zoro will have it for sure while Sanji is not that likely.
Still now we have 4 CoC users plus one one non canon in Rogers crew alone
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Talk about Zoro and Sanji. Im sure Zoro will show us his CoC, poor Sanji again.
I like how it can't just be this hype thing to enjoy Zoro achieving, it has to also be used to put down Sanji for some reason
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It kinda bothers me that despite Sanji ever barely showing a desire to become stronger while Zoro is actively doing so, there cannot be a clear line drawn perfectly showing off that Zoro is currently 50,000 dorukis while Mr Prince cannot be higher than 5,000 for being a full time slacker.
They all want to constantly become stronger, in Zoro´s case it is not only his main drive but pretty much his only drive for the majority of the series, that´s the difference.
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Oda choce Mihawk to train Zoro, thats why his so strong thanks to his mentor and his dream want to be the strongest. So Sanji cant be the same level with Zoro now
Its fair dude. -
None of those moments are memorable was the exact wording i believe. Which includes the cake, which objectively was a big moment for him with tons of emphasis put on it. How am i twisting his intent here? He puts it in plain text that he doesn't think Sanji's biggest moment in the arc qualifies as a moment in his favour.
Putting on a new battle suit, displaying it's abilities and then annihilating a foe doesn't qualify as a moment to you? I'm honestly baffled by your harping on that point. The chapter discussion blew up that week on that single battle and the the implications/repercussions/aftermath on the suit, page one, where Sanji goes from there but you won't even acknowledge it as something as simple as a positive moment for Sanji. Is it the wording? Do you and i define a moment differently? Cause i am honestly shocked by how little you think about it.
To disregard the cake as something not memorable shows a clear bias, i do not disagree, it was one of the main developments of WCI that tied everything neatly together with the Vinsmokes completely disregarding Sanji´s skill and desire to cook and ironically those skills in the end, at least temporarily, saving the day, but once again there is a bad aftertaste with Oda drawing Sanji several times stating the cake will be used to defeat Big Mom, and she is going to faint and so forth, while all it did was energize her to a degree that she came back right after to take care of the Vinsmokes and Sun Pirates.
So even in that Oda does not give him a victory. -
Oda choce Mihawk to train Zoro, thats why his so strong thanks to his mentor and his dream want to be the strongest. So Sanji cant be the same level with Zoro now
Its fair dude.Zeff a veteran pirate trained Sanji while kid Luffy trained in a forest with other kids
Logic
But we had this in the past… And let me guess every top tier has a dream of becoming strongest "insert x" and was trained by some top tier before.
Kizaru wants to become worlds strongest stoner
PS
Zoro is and always will be stronger as Sanji but won't let him in the dust -
Oda choce Mihawk to train Zoro, thats why his so strong thanks to his mentor and his dream want to be the strongest. So Sanji cant be the same level with Zoro now
Its fair dude.That argument would work if before the timeskip they were not equal with Zoro training all his life like a madman and Sanji mostly cooking in a restaurant.
Oda never cared for "justifications" for strength, Enies Lobby is a prime example.
And Oda still negated that gap with Sanji´s suit.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
[https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/one-piece-2/en/0/924/page/6
Y](https://jaiminisbox.com/reader/read/one-piece-2/en/0/924/page/6)eah, sure.
Those 30000 men are irrelevant, the top 30-40 people are gonna be tough especially with Kaido being one of them.
Yep, Luffy made many WB Pirates faint in Marineford, where he was significantly weaker than he is now.
Most of them would faint.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
yeah, friendship/proud whatever.
I'm just saying that people will die and Luffy could stop this by using CoCAnd yes, one of the reasons was that WB was too weak to use CoC or even CoA. That's how he got hit by that damn Squard
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
That's only because he hadn't mastered his CoC. Otherwise they would have all been knocked out.
Anyways, I hope we'll see enough CoC during that war that's supposed to be bigger than Marineford
He used CoA just fine though. Used it against Aokiji, only he made a hole like Katakuri. And got Akainu pretty bad.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I like how it can't just be this hype thing to enjoy Zoro achieving, it has to also be used to put down Sanji for some reason
Yep, it´s not like in every opportunity Oda puts these two against each other
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I hope Oda make Sanji used Rankyaku like Chiper Pol, so he can cut anything with his leg.
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He used CoA just fine though. Used it against Aokiji, only he made a hole like Katakuri. And got Akainu pretty bad.
Yeah I meant observation haki. He couldn’t use it and that’s how Squard managed to slice him
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I hope Oda make Sanji used Rankyaku like Chiper Pol, so he can cut anything with his leg.
Please don't bring this thing up.
Still mad at this. Not saying he needs a cutting long range but they could give him a longer range thurst attack with his kicks plus Diable Jambe it would be like a Mini Bike
Don't understand this… Zeff could kick the air so hard with his wododen leg and Iva could do it with his winks
And no I give no.damn about the anime showing it... Never shown in the manga
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Please don't bring this thing up.
Still mad at this. Not saying he needs a cutting long range but they could give him a longer range thurst attack with his kicks plus Diable Jambe it would be like a Mini Bike
Don't understand this… Zeff could kick the air so hard with his wododen leg and Iva could do it with his winks
And no I give no.damn about the anime showing it... Never shown in the manga
Zoro slash + Sanji flying kick slash vs Kaido's skin. Thats would be cool bro. Hehe
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Zeff a veteran pirate trained Sanji while kid Luffy trained in a forest with other kids
Logic
But we had this in the past… And let me guess every top tier has a dream of becoming strongest "insert x" and was trained by some top tier before.
Kizaru wants to become worlds strongest stoner
PS
Zoro is and always will be stronger as Sanji but won't let him in the dustehemm.. Luffy was trained by the Hero of the marines as a kid.
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What is this stupid obsession with Sanji, Zoro and the all so pathetic MUH DBZ POWA LEVELS BRUH you see here, youtube and everywhere?
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What is this stupid obsession with Sanji, Zoro and the all so pathetic MUH DBZ POWA LEVELS BRUH you see here, youtube and everywhere?
Don't know. Sanji is the best and Zoro is stronger it's that simple
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I've always thought it's the result of the DBZ fandom discovering One Piece.
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It's still Germa's opinion, perhaps based on the opinion of fight-junkie fans who think that a main character's worth only depends on how many fights he has won recently.
What does it matter if Big Mom knows Sanji baked the cake? It's not like he did it to impress her or to be praised for his skills. And yeah it saved people. Big Mom was seconds away from annihilating the Sunny and everyone on it. If he hadn't baked a cake that was able to get Big Mom's attention, Nami, Chopper, Brook, Carrot and even Jinbe would probably have been destroyed by her. And these characters weren't left behind, they willingly stayed behind to assure the crew's safety - there is really nothing the cake could have accomplished to prevent that. Also, we might not care as much since there weren't any civilian characters we were emotionally attached to, but that doesn't change the fact that Sanjis cake single-handedly saved the whole country and every person living there from Big Mom's rampage. Just imagine Trump going on an insane rampage and someone stopping him before he destroys New York and then the rest of the U.S. - that's basically what Sanji did just by being a great cook.
I don't get what you are saying here at all. Yeah ok they are pirates first as a group, and Sanji's role on the crew is that of the ship's cook. That's what he was recruited for, that's his ultimate service for the crew: he assures that they don't starve or fall ill due to malnutrition. Sure you also have to eb strong to make it to the top, but ultimately everything besides cooking is just extra stuff he brings to the table.
Best cook in the world will die back with the fishman guy in arlong park, if is not good fighter. While their ship roles are important, they fight all the time the strongest enemies, even more sanji along with zoro and luffy that tend to take on the strongest of the group that tend to be monsters. So a crew with best navigator, best cook, best doctor would not get past the first island if they are not great fighters too.
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Something different and I hope it won't fuel the next stupid Sanji debate.
But what if Enma even will draw out Zoro's CoC.
Zoro is perfect for CoC and I think he slowly should show it
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I would find it strange. By that I mean i think it's draining specific energy. I don't think it would draw your Coo for example. But I think Luffy used CoC to make his kick stronger against Doffly so maybe? But I would find it strange.
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Zorowill have CoC at some point obviously, just like Rayleigh. I mean, even Sanji and Ussop will probably get it after a while
After all, there was 4 persons with CoC in Roger’s crew… if not more -
I thought that when 2 CoC users clash, when using CoA, the clash just creates that effect. Even when both just used CoC to make sure there's no further interruption like with Kata vs Luffy. I don't think Luffy was using more CoC to make his kick stronger against Doffy. Has it been said that CoC can enhance the other 2 Haki abilities?
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What is this stupid obsession with Sanji, Zoro and the all so pathetic MUH DBZ POWA LEVELS BRUH you see here, youtube and everywhere?
it's not about power level, it's about Oda treating his character the same fair way. Once again a topic is tranformed into power level shenaningan
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As much as some don't want to admit it, the discrepancies are indeed power scaling based. Sanji got an arc that was driven by him, when it could've been for Jinbei. What is fair? If Sanji got a fight? If he came out looking superior over Vergo or Doffy? Do you see how this is power scaling based?
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it's not about power level, it's about Oda treating his character the same fair way. Once again a topic is tranformed into power level shenaningan
How would Sanji be treated similarly to Zoro, and why would that matter? If we were talking Chopper or Robin I'd get it, since I'd hope you mean panel time, but Sanji and Zoro have had pretty similar amounts of focus over the years. Do you think Sanji should be as strong as Zoro or have as many fighting feats? I don't. I'm fine sitting here imagining how good his Soba tastes.
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So this Wano Arc is the final upgrade for Zoro's sword. Wado, Enma and Kitetsu was the best choice for the future strongest swordsman I think.
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I think Wado and Enma are final. I feel like he's gonna go from Sandai to Nidai tho
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What is this stupid obsession with Sanji, Zoro and the all so pathetic MUH DBZ POWA LEVELS BRUH you see here, youtube and everywhere?
Not understanding what is actually discussed but trying to sound superior…
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I feel that Hiyori staying behind is another way of making her be captured by Orochi's forces (now that he knows she is alive and there) and be needing rescue in Onigashima rather than her being the traitor. But still, we are kept wondering about her and Kiyoshiro.
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How would Sanji be treated similarly to Zoro, and why would that matter? If we were talking Chopper or Robin I'd get it, since I'd hope you mean panel time, but Sanji and Zoro have had pretty similar amounts of focus over the years. Do you think Sanji should be as strong as Zoro or have as many fighting feats? I don't. I'm fine sitting here imagining how good his Soba tastes.
I just said it was not a questionnof fight and you put them again as if it was the only issue. Anyway i think i will do like access timeco. If you are fine witj sanji doing the kitchen and be a pervert till the end of the manga, good for you