It's hilarious how the DBZ fanbase constantly whines about Caulifla either having a generic one-dimensional personality or no personality at all, while creaming themselves over stoic bores like Hit and Jiren.
Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly
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Sometimes I wish I could've caught up once the series is over just because some of the dumb discussions and hyperboles thrown around that are mostly true for every Dragon Ball series.
I'm also currently on a rewatch of Z, never have fully watched it in Japanese, 11 episodes in and most of has been simple character development with Gohan, nothing that is all that much more amazing than stuff in Super. It's actually really nostalgic 80-90's anime pacing that really takes it's time in some annoying ways like modern long-runners do, but I also kind of appreciate it, it has a different flavour to it from modern stuff. Yeah, I know most of it is apparently filler, but it's the version most people know and I have nostalgia for.
I do like that the art is more consistent, though. Hasn't been a very distractingly bad episode yet. I remember there being quite a few during the Cell games. Gonna be fun once I get there.
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This episode was good.
I'm digging Caulifla, her eagerness to learn and excitation when it comes to fighting is just like Goku, but her distinct delinquent personality makes Caulifla her own character instead of a simple genderbent Goku.
This is how I imagined a female saiyan. -
It's hilarious how the DBZ fanbase constantly whines about Caulifla either having a generic one-dimensional personality or no personality at all, while creaming themselves over stoic bores like Hit and Jiren.
I guarantee that if Jiren did what Kale did today, walking through the Kamehameha and all, there would be far less vitriol coming from the fanbase. You can 100% count on that.
Hit's fine though, I think he's shown some subtlety beneath the stone-cold exterior. Jiren badly needs some chracterization on the other hand. He's not even a character at the moment, just an obstacle.
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Episode #100 was mostly key animated by Yashima Yoshitaka, a super-fast animator who typically finishes episodes alone. The good fight animation in the second half was by Nikaido Atsushi.
Kale walking through the Kamehame-Ha is a reference to Movie #8. Episode Director Karasawa Kazuya included a lot of those in his storyboard, probably because of how big a fan he is of Yama'uchi Shigeyasu.
I do like that the art is more consistent, though. Hasn't been a very distractingly bad episode yet. I remember there being quite a few during the Cell games. Gonna be fun once I get there.
At that point the character designs were still mostly like Dr. Slump: Arale-chan, which Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z shared mostly the same animators with. The production schedule also hadn't gone to shit from catching up to the comic and splitting resources to animate two films a year.
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This episode was fucking great.
Watching Kale lose her shit was awesome. Caulifa fighting with Goku was also great.
Never take away someone's "sister"
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However, I actually wouldn't mind power levels returning. Not the in the way they were used before as mere hype tools without any actual substance, but instead in a more comedic way making fun of it similar how the baseball episode had fun with Yamcha's Yamchaness.
Like, for example, there's a incredibly powerful deity who always gets more and more powerful by hard working. But in fact the only thing this deity wishes is a "cool" number when scanned. Like 1337733113377331. But as it always failed, the deity ended up training and training again. That stuff actually has some real potential like scanning the main cast, but not telling us any concrete number. Or mentioning that Goku and Vegeta are remarkably close, but don't tell us (or them) who has the higher number. And the characters' reactions basically mirror the fanbase then.
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Well, Kale isn't eliminated yet, so she could come back into play.
Hit was also there so Kale was safe.
It's hilarious how the DBZ fanbase constantly whines about Caulifla either having a generic one-dimensional personality or no personality at all, while creaming themselves over stoic bores like Hit and Jiren.
Hit has shown signs of character development, it was a surprise seeing him help Caulifla and Kale, showed how much he changed compared to the Champa Arc.
"IF YOU’RE A MAN YOU DON’T CRY ABOUT IT. YOU TAKE LIFE THE UPS AND DOWNS. IF YOU’RE A REAL MAN YA NEVER GO DOWN YA JUST STAY UP"
- RIC FLAIR
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Ripping off Broly's character and erasing him from the canon at the same time. What a load of bull.
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Power levels are logarithmic. I'm sure toriyama thought of that!
the x is power level number, the y is actual destructive power.
Makes sense to me!
Hit has shown signs of character development, it was a surprise seeing him help Caulifla and Kale, showed how much he changed compared to the Champa Arc.
Yeah I like Hit's small changes. Agreed with Crossword though, Jiren needs something to be more than "stronk guy Goku will face"
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Surprised at the level of hate to Caulifa and Kale among the fanbase? Is it a "we don't like girls thing" or "we want Broly, not this" thing.
Frankly, I love em both.
I wasn't distracted by Lucy being half naked.
You won this week Fairy Tail.
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Ripping off Broly's character and erasing him from the canon at the same time. What a load of bull.
….Broly was never canon though? None of the movies were. The only ones that fit at all were 5, 9, and 13. (Cooler, Bojak, and Hildegarn) and those mostly because they took place during timeskips. All the rest have issues with character having moves or forms they shouldn't or random people being dead or not dead when they should have been.
(And the Dragonball movies were straight up complete alternate reality retellings that didn't even try to pretend they fir the timeline.)GT isn't canon either, it's been explicitly eliminated with the de-aging of the Pilof gang, but no one complains about that.
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….Broly was never canon though? None of the movies were. The only ones that fit at all were 5, 9, and 13. (Cooler, Bojak, and Hildegarn) and those mostly because they took place during timeskips. All the rest have issues with character having moves or forms they shouldn't or random people being dead or not dead when they should have been.
(And the Dragonball movies were straight up complete alternate reality retellings that didn't even try to pretend they fir the timeline.)GT isn't canon either, it's been explicitly eliminated with the de-aging of the Pilof gang, but no one complains about that.
Well, clearly the OVAs were never canon in the first place, but if they are going to reintroduce a concept from one of them they may as well act as if the OVA (or part of it at least) existed in the first place.
While I know Broly is considered a dumb character the concept of the legendary saiyan was always interesting and they are making it a disservice by the way its being introduced. Not like I expect anything of quality from Super since its nearly at GT's level, but it kinda sucks that this would stay as the "official" version.
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Why should they act as if a non-canon movie was suddenly canon just because they're remixing an idea from it? Should Goku have said "Oh hey, Turles" when Black showed up?
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Well, clearly the OVAs were never canon in the first place, but if they are going to reintroduce a concept from one of them they may as well act as if the OVA (or part of it at least) existed in the first place.
Ok, what OVA are we talking about here? There are 4 things you could call "OVAs" of DB, an Animated Strategy guide for an NES game called "The Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans", it's 2010 remake that was include with Raging Blast 2, The Jump Super Anime Tour special, and Episode of Burdock…. and as far as I am aware, none of them is explicitly stated as Canon. The JSAT one CAN fit into Canon, but I find it odd we haven't gotten any mention of Tarble since.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
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Tarble got retconned
He doesn't gel with Resurrection F
Set Art by Daily Rowlet -
Tarble is Vegeta jr? He was mentioned in battle of the gods.
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Surprised at the level of hate to Caulifa and Kale among the fanbase? Is it a "we don't like girls thing" or "we want Broly, not this" thing.
Frankly, I love em both.
Caulifla is hated because she's a one-dimensional Mary Sue, Kale is hated because she's an annoying Broly.
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You know who's an even more annoying Broly?
Broly
Set Art by Daily Rowlet -
The Dragon Ball wiki really doesn't want to admit that Kale is the canon Legendary Super Saiyan, it's great.
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Caulifla is hated because she's a one-dimensional Mary Sue, Kale is hated because she's an annoying Broly.
How is Caulifla a mary sue?
Cause what, she was able to become SS2 so quickly?
Kinda like Goten and Trunks randomly becoming SS3 out of no where, or becoming Super Saiyan as CHILDREN out of no where?
I wasn't distracted by Lucy being half naked.
You won this week Fairy Tail.
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It's okay because they have a penis.
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How is Caulifla a mary sue?
Cause what, she was able to become SS2 so quickly?
Kinda like Goten and Trunks randomly becoming SS3 out of no where, or becoming Super Saiyan as CHILDREN out of no where?
If learning techniques fast is Caulifa's special trait, I'm fine with it. Some people are better at some things than others. I'm wondering what the odds are of her learning SS4 before this is over, seeing as Blue is impossible without god ki. Why not go all out with this thing? I'm only half joking.
Back to Kale, I like that one scene where that Pride Trooper fails to stop her. He states that his whip can "stop anyone evil," and I'm wondering if that's literal considering the existence of the Devilmite Beam and Kale technically not being evil (just jealous). I'd get a laugh if all of them had moves like that, and continue to fail to use them on the right people.
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@Cyan:
How do power levels explain Krillin defeating an opponent because he doesn't have a nose.
Or Krillin somehow being affected by said opponent's body odor despite not having a nose…..and later being forced to remember that.
You know who's an even more annoying Broly?
Broly
Which one movie 8, Broly or movie 11 Broly?
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If learning techniques fast is Caulifa's special trait, I'm fine with it.
Only Goku is allowed to steal other people's techniques like that.
Complicating things since 2009.
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I don't care about power levels, but wasn't anyone else annoyed by how the scenes simply didn't make sense? I mean, sloppy direction or something like that.
The fight is taking place in a circular ring, there is nothing on the ring except a huge pilar in its center (and the fighters). Ok… but then suddenly Kale is atop a huge pile of rocks. Huh!? Where did that come from?
Then she throws a lot of energy balls everywhere and after that the ring is covered by huge debris... It would only make sense if there was something over the ring, but there wasn't anything before - or did her attack summoned rocks from the ground? (btw, a nearly indestructible ring and Caulifla breaks it doing a suplex)
And at the end, when Kale is about to (apparently) attack Caulifla, she is sent away by Jiren's energy ball, carried away some good meters before the energy finally explodes... and as a result her body is thrown at Caulifla's direction???Also, pretty sure Caulifla was flying when she saved Kale from falling after she was attacked by U10.
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Only Goku is allowed to steal other people's techniques like that.
Caulifa is basically the child Goku always wanted.
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@Cyan:
Caulifa is basically the child Goku always wanted.
Yeah, if he and Chichi ever have a second child, Goku hopes it'll be like Caulifla.
Complicating things since 2009.
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Yeah, if he and Chichi ever have a second child, Goku hopes it'll be like Caulifla.
Goku still prefers their dog, Only Son.
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@.access:
Then she throws a lot of energy balls everywhere and after that the ring is covered by huge debris..
Given the (small) size of the arena, I kept thinking this should've knocked a lot more people off.
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@Cyan:
Goku still prefers their dog, Only Son.
That comparison is unfair to Father Doofenshmirtz.
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Caulifla is hated because she's a one-dimensional Mary Sue, Kale is hated because she's an annoying Broly.
Caulifla has a pretty well established personality despite how little screen time she's been given.
•Loyal to her gloriously yuri love, Kale.
•Battle crazy.
•Not particularly respectful of those who haven't earned her respect.
•Hardworking, never taking her position of power for granted.Caulifla and Kale are obviously Shueisha and Bandai's attempts at tapping to new (re: Otaku) markets, but at least they're entertaining.
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@.access:
I don't care about power levels, but wasn't anyone else annoyed by how the scenes simply didn't make sense? I mean, sloppy direction or something like that.
The fight is taking place in a circular ring, there is nothing on the ring except a huge pilar in its center (and the fighters). Ok… but then suddenly Kale is atop a huge pile of rocks. Huh!? Where did that come from?
Then she throws a lot of energy balls everywhere and after that the ring is covered by huge debris... It would only make sense if there was something over the ring, but there wasn't anything before - or did her attack summoned rocks from the ground? (btw, a nearly indestructible ring and Caulifla breaks it doing a suplex)
And at the end, when Kale is about to (apparently) attack Caulifla, she is sent away by Jiren's energy ball, carried away some good meters before the energy finally explodes... and as a result her body is thrown at Caulifla's direction???Also, pretty sure Caulifla was flying when she saved Kale from falling after she was attacked by U10.
The ring is being torn up. It's a large, deep ring, so it can be pulled and twisted every which way. Kale charging her ki and the ground beneath her literally being pulled up as a pillar is likely a reference to the end of Dragon Ball Z Episode #279, which was storyboarded and directed by Yama'uchi Shigeyasu. Yama'uchi previously directed Dragon Ball Z Movie #8, #10 and #12. Throughout Episode #100 Storyboard Artist & Episode Director Karasawa Kazuya continually references Movies #8 and #10, so he's clearly a fan of Yama'uchi and wanted to pay tribute to his Broli films in an episode focusing on Kale.
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@.access:
I don't care about power levels, but wasn't anyone else annoyed by how the scenes simply didn't make sense? I mean, sloppy direction or something like that.
The sudden endless mountains for the participants was weird. It also bothers me that you can just kind kind of sleep in this ring. Jiren blandness and above everything attitude is starting to annoy me. At the very least they should have him be busy actually fighting.
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Every time i see Jiren it reminds me of this guy
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I wasn't aware people didn't like Caulifla. I knew people had problems with her gaining all these SSJ levels so fast, but lots of characters had those complaints in Super. I think Caulifla is great. Easily the best of the U6 Saiyans.
Kale, I'm not a fan of.
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I don't see why people are surprised about the SS stuff becoming so common place. Vegeta literally said "it's become a child's play thing" in the Boo arc. We've been past the point of it being a super hard to achieve form.
It honestly can be explained, too. There are the obvious emotional stuff that was mentioned to cause the fist transformation, and as we saw with Cabba and Caulifa, a form or transforming that appears to be focusing Ki in your back and your power multiplies. Now the actual mechanics of transforming aside, and the only other prerequisite is being powerful to a certain degree.
We've been shown explicitly that the Saiyans of Universe 6 have evolved much differently than our Saiyans, including how strong they are. Every Saiyan we've seen with offspring, have been surpassed by their children's power at their respective age. Sure, Goten doesn't do shit now. But his power is at least on par with Freeza during Namek at this point. When Goku was his age, he was still fighting the Red Ribbon Army.
My point is that if you wanna look beyond the obvious power scaling bullshit, we have evidence that Saiyans seem to be able to produce stronger offspring based on the power of the parent when the child is conceived(as evident in the power difference of Trunks and his past self, and gaining the SS form).
We've already seen that the U6 Saiyans have evolved beyond tails, and Cabba's base form was on par with Vegeta who had just come out of 3 years of training with Goku after nearly a year of training with Whis.
A character like Caulifa learning these transformations so quickly make sense when you combine their universes different Saiyan biology, their natural base strength, and being a prodigy similar to Goku when it comes to learning techniques after seeing them only briefly.
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Most of the Caulifla hate seems to be about the power level stuff. People seem to dig her character and I personally do, too.
There was the possibility she'd be a Goku clone, but she's not. Her being sort of a delinquent makes her a different character, she also isn't entirely a jerk, she clearly cares about Kale. I'd say for how little screentime she has had, effort has definitely gone into writing her personality. I think her student-teacher relationship with Goku is fun, too.
I think people will like Kale more once we get to see her grow and really, her struggle spelled out better. They're really obviously pushing her becoming more confident and being able to control her power and for that to happen we have to see her struggle first. It'll also be a better take on Broly, too by doing something different with it. Superfacially Kale is a Broly reference, but character-wise she a reflection of Gohan and I personally love Gohan-type character arcs. It's a character arc that can be really satisfying.
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No one has bothered to mentioned Kale took dmg after she tanked the kamehameha(which wasnt as strong as the one used vs Merged Zamasu, Hit or Toppo)? She was running out of breath, meaning she isnt that strong, the top tiers like Freeza could take care of her.
Her gimmick is basically like OPM Metal Bat(they are immune to dmg as long as they are angry, I wonder if she can approach infinity like Metal is said to be).
"IF YOU’RE A MAN YOU DON’T CRY ABOUT IT. YOU TAKE LIFE THE UPS AND DOWNS. IF YOU’RE A REAL MAN YA NEVER GO DOWN YA JUST STAY UP"
- RIC FLAIR
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No one has bothered to mentioned Kale took dmg after she tanked the kamehameha(which wasnt as strong as the one used vs Merged Zamasu, Hit or Toppo)? She was running out of breath, meaning she isnt that strong, the top tiers like Freeza could take care of her.
Her gimmick is basically like OPM Metal Bat(they are immune to dmg as long as they are angry, I wonder if she can approach infinity like Metal is said to be).
She's a Hulk that operates on envy. Simple as that. I wish the writers would give her a personality outside of 'timid girl who says nothing and loves her Oneesan' when she's not Hulking out
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Well that will happen once she gets that slim SSJ transformation.
I hope U3 warriors have that gundam/megazord thing in combining together to form a strong warriors because they have been the biggest bust so far, even U9 was more impressive.
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She's a Hulk that operates on envy. Simple as that. I wish the writers would give her a personality outside of 'timid girl who says nothing and loves her Oneesan' when she's not Hulking out
It's hard for Series Directors Nagamine Tatsuya and Nakamura Ryouta to develop any one character when Shueisha and Bandai shove over eighty down their throat and tell them to include them in a series that have little production time or staff. Don't expect things to happen until the schedule improves.
She/Her
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Imo this should be a proof that Brianne is U2 Jiren. Due to the events of Episode 100, it boosted Brianne to at least Blue level because she was also one of the fights to watch out(along with Kale and Jiren).
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@Yuugi's:
It's hard for Series Directors Nagamine Tatsuya and Nakamura Ryouta to develop any one character when Shueisha and Bandai shove over eighty down their throat and tell them to include them in a series that have little production time or staff. Don't expect things to happen until the schedule improves.
Yeah I get it.. I'm not really blaming the writers, so much as I'm complaining about the end product. But goddamn it they managed to write Caulifla as something other than a cookie cutter 2D character and it's so annoying that Kale got the shaft character wise, considering how her power is so GODDAMN COOL. (But it's so STUPID. but it's SOOO GODDAMN COOL. But so STUPID. COOOL. AAAARRGGG)
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Even Botamo and Magetta became interesting, pairing them together was the best thing to happen for them.
Cabba already redeemed himself by taking down 2 fighters, Hit has had the most development in Team U6.
Overall U6 has been fine in terms of development.
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Honestly, anything can happen as long as the story is still going. If Kale doesn't get anything here, she might get something more later. Same goes for all the other universes and U7, too, especially now that the story as gone through the effort to pay some attention to the side cast.
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Yeah I get it.. I'm not really blaming the writers, so much as I'm complaining about the end product. But goddamn it they managed to write Caulifla as something other than a cookie cutter 2D character and it's so annoying that Kale got the shaft character wise, considering how her power is so GODDAMN COOL. (But it's so STUPID. but it's SOOO GODDAMN COOL. But so STUPID. COOOL. AAAARRGGG)
They've spent a lot what little time they have to structure Caulifla as well as they have. Given that Yukana is voicing Kale I do imagine that she will be given more to do later on, but at the very least she's fulfilling a couple of fetishes for people! :p
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No one has bothered to mentioned Kale took dmg after she tanked the kamehameha(which wasnt as strong as the one used vs Merged Zamasu, Hit or Toppo)? She was running out of breath, meaning she isnt that strong, the top tiers like Freeza could take care of her.
Her gimmick is basically like OPM Metal Bat(they are immune to dmg as long as they are angry, I wonder if she can approach infinity like Metal is said to be).
You like sprouting nonsense don't you? I see it in other places as well.
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Manga chapter 26 - there were at least a few more lines addressing the fact that Trunks' timeline got destroyed. My least favorite part of that ending in the anime was that it was taken so casually. Not even that Trunks didn't get an happy ending, it just felt really lazy there in terms of execution. I also did like the Vegeta and Goku moment and the Vegeta and Bulma moment. That's the most characterization we've gotten in the manga in a while.
General thoughts on the manga version is that it has plotting that is more solid, but far less characterization. I liked Vegeta trashing Goku Black. I liked Goku getting pissed at Goku Black for killing Chichi and Goten. I liked Vegeta training Future Trunks. Even Goku Black was much more fun of a villain.
I am curious of the manga take for the Tournament Of Power. Something tells me they'll just skip all the character stuff which would make me sad. If anything the manga needs that more than anything because all the stuff with the other characters that's there in the anime isn't there.
DBZ Rewatch Episodes 11-20. Kaioken is hyped up really nicely and Gohan's and Piccolo's development does actually have some nuance. In this case it's better than I remembered. Particularly Gohan. No wonder people are so pissed he was neglected for so long. His development was a huge chunk of the story already at the beginning of Z. Most of these 20 episodes was Gohan.
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The production committee was tossing around the name Dragon Ball: Gohan no Dai-Bouken (Gohan's Big Adventure) before settling on Dragon Ball Z as the title for the second series. I believe Satou Masaki even drew promotional art with that name on it.
As for how the Tournament of Power arc is handled in the comic, I'm hoping most of the recruitment stuff is skipped. Nineteen fucking episodes just to get to the beginning of the tournament is terrible. This is to say nothing of those nineteen episodes being horrendously linear in narrative with no real surprises to keep them interesting. Flashbacks to the major recruitment scenes should have been placed amidst the fighting during the actual tournament to help break up the action and prevent fatigue.
