I would like to gather all the characters that should be dead, how and if there're any reason to keep them alive other than Oda's ideology. Can you help me out?
One Piece: Pell Effect
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Pagaya, but at least he was sorry about not dying
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I would like to gather all the characters that should be dead, how and if there're any reason to keep them alive other than Oda's ideology. Can you help me out?
And threads like this are why I have my signature.
Pell survived because he is a Falcon - Stop using him as a bad example.
The Peregrine Falcon reaches faster speeds than any other animal on the planet when performing the stoop,which involves soaring to a great height and then diving steeply at speeds of over 320 km/h (200 mph) -
In most recent memory Bellamy.
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And threads like this are why I have my signature.
Still doesn't explain it at all. Eventhough it's pointless to use real world physics to begin with, 320 km/h is nowhere near enough to get away from an explosion radius of 5km. It's not like Pell still had a minute left on the clock to get away, at the very most it was 5 seconds and that's stretching it. Might have to change that signature.
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Still doesn't explain it at all. Eventhough it's pointless to use real world physics to begin with, 320 km/h is nowhere near enough to get away from an explosion radius of 5km. It's not like Pell still had a minute left on the clock to get away, at the very most it was 5 seconds and that's stretching it. Might have to change that signature.
! http://i33.mangareader.net/one-piece/208/one-piece-59264.jpghttp://i9.mangareader.net/one-piece/208/one-piece-59265.jpg
Or Oda picked the fastest animal in the Kingdom for that scenario - and as they showed - he didn't escape the explosion - he just didn't take the full brunt of it which is often the difference between life and death.
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A lot of the shandians were hit by directly by Enel's atacks and didn't die. All the people at Punk Hazard that were covered in shinokuni, they should have been asfixiated or poisoned. I think the Smoker's subordinates that blew up with the ship trying to burn Smiley also survived, so them.
Do impossible or stupid in-story explanations count? Because if so, everyone who was saved by Pauly's infninite, unbreakable and conveniently knotted ropes.
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I've always preferred to think Pell's survival was an unexplained effect of his devil fruit and role as guardian of Arabasta. Chaka should have died too, but my memory may be fuzzy on that one.
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Pell is always referred to as the guy who survived a nuke. But it wasn't a nuke. A large explosion, that's it.
I don't think it was much stronger than the Ursus Shock. Besides Zoan are known for their endurance.
LoL I don't think what I said makes perfect sense either. But it's already easier to accept that a character survived a big explosion rather than a nuke.Though I think Pell's death is one of the best sacrifice I've seen in a story. So his comeback ruins the whole thing.
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It's a shounen manga full of magic powers and willpower having direct influence over the physical. People not dying shouldn't be surprising.
If Whitebeard or Ace get dragonballed back to life then people can start calling foul.
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Pell is always referred to as the guy who survived a nuke. But it wasn't a nuke. A large explosion, that's it.
I don't think it was much stronger than the Ursus Shock. Besides Zoan are known for their endurance.
LoL I don't think what I said makes perfect sense either. But it's already easier to accept that a character survived a big explosion rather than a nuke.Though I think Pell's death is one of the best sacrifice I've seen in a story. So his comeback ruins the whole thing.
I think that is why Pell is always the posterchild for this. He is the first, his 'death' was more like a sacrifice and was made into a touching moment between him and vivi but also, the 'nuke' was hyped up to be able to kill everyone in the vicinity of the Alabasta clock tower. All of the soldiers and rebels fighting in the center had their lives threatened. Something hyped up so much and then does not kill anyone at all despite someone being literally touching it when it goes off really lessens the impact that entire plot point had.
Also to pick characters for this list you are going to need some kind of criteria. How are we working this? Characters who Oda made out to be dead but then came back some how or characters that suffered attacks that should have killed them but did not? Because both Monet and Law are characters that fit into this category. Possibly Vergo as well as the room he was in exploded.
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Spandam, because all those explosion in the face + Robin`s back breaker I think he's probably immortal.
And of course Viper, nobody should survive an el thor. -
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Pell learned CoA just before the bomb went off.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oops not a dumb predictions thread!
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I'm of the idea that Oda didn't want to kill ANYONE on present time before Marineford to make Ace and WB deaths even more shocking and memorable, so he had to make characters survive no matter what before that. We know that Pell and & others should have died there, but we also know how Oda deals with death in general, if it's not a super touching ultra memorable moment heavily related to main characters, then he won't do it. If characters started to die every left and right, then when the very important ones will it would be just not AS important and meaningful
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the guy at the slave auction on sabaody who bit his tongue. another panel showed that he bit hard enough to literally cut the tongue completely, yet he was alive.
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the guy at the slave auction on sabaody who bit his tongue. another panel showed that he bit hard enough to literally cut the tongue completely, yet he was alive.
http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2609-5/one-piece/chapter-502.html Literally had to dig through the manga to find the exact panel. What makes this awful is that Oda could've just have easily left him dead to show the seriousness of his act. But NOPE, no one can die.
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Pell is always referred to as the guy who survived a nuke. But it wasn't a nuke. A large explosion, that's it.
I don't think it was much stronger than the Ursus Shock. Besides Zoan are known for their endurance.
LoL I don't think what I said makes perfect sense either. But it's already easier to accept that a character survived a big explosion rather than a nuke.Though I think Pell's death is one of the best sacrifice I've seen in a story. So his comeback ruins the whole thing.
That's massively under-selling a bomb that was stated to annihilate a radius of 5 kilometers.
The Ursus Shock, in comparison, didn't even break apart the surrounding buildings or forest on Thriller Bark. It also didn't even leave any noticeable crater after it was released.
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In most recent memory Bellamy.
To show that CoA isn't as fancy as expected.
To have Doflamingo straight up deny him his dream.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Spandam, because all those explosion in the face + Robin`s back breaker I think he's probably immortal.
And of course Viper, nobody should survive an el thor.Well actually only 10% of people die when getting struck by lightning
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'm of the idea that Oda didn't want to kill ANYONE on present time before Marineford to make Ace and WB deaths even more shocking and memorable, so he had to make characters survive no matter what before that. We know that Pell and & others should have died there, but we also know how Oda deals with death in general, if it's not a super touching ultra memorable moment heavily related to main characters, then he won't do it. If characters started to die every left and right, then when the very important ones will it would be just not AS important and meaningful
Oda and the deaths of characters in the current time setting have not not died due to illegitimate reasons.
Lightning, stabbed in the heart, getting shot etc, etc are actually have low chances of killing a person. Oda embraces that in a manga in which he does not like killing characters, unless it's for plot progression. (E.g. Ace, Whitebeard)
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Or Oda picked the fastest animal in the Kingdom for that scenario - and as they showed - he didn't escape the explosion - he just didn't take the full brunt of it which is often the difference between life and death.
He was shown holding the bomb immediately before the explosion.
If we assume he dropped the bomb after that last panel showing him, he would have AT BEST 1 second to get away. And if we assume he did it and at 320km/h (= ignoring acceleration and assuming he would be at his max speed since the very start) he still would only be able to get 9 meters away… pretty much nothing in a 5km blast.
Also, there is the fact that he was flying UP right before the bomb exploded. That huge speed you are talking about is when the falcon drops DOWN, meaning that if he really was flying away from the bomb in that panel, he would still need to drop in order to accelerate and that would get him closer to the bomb instead of far from it... So no.
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Before I get into my main point, just one small point about Pell and the bomb. Biggest thing about Oda is he likes to throw out big numbers to make things look impressive. I don't think we can take the 4 km thing that much to heart, as Oda is just bad at throwing out numbers for arbitrary hype. Next, I can see why the rebels might be in more danger even on the outer part of the explosion. They are regular people, and don't have endurance of actual fighters. I doubt they even have the endurance of Usopp. Because of how weak they are overall, the explosion would kill them.
As for my main point, I find it somewhat disturbing that a person who puts their life on the line and doesn't die is a bad thing. Here's how I look at the scene now, knowing that Pell survives (I'll have to go into more detail in the reread section once I get there). There are no more options, and Pell must take the blow of the bomb. In the condition that he is already in, and having heard what the bomb is supposed to be like, he gives Vivi a farewell. He fully expects he won't survive so he wants to give his final farewell to someone he deeply cares about. Pell takes the bomb, it explodes, and everyone assumes he died. At the end, we found out he survived, but don't know how.
Basically, Pell was ready to be a sacrifice, but he somehow survived. It's something that actually happens, where someone survives an event where by all rights, they should be dead. Him being alive doesn't take out the moment of him being selfless, and the despair that Vivi had. Really, the only thing we can say is that you aren't as sad in that scene as a reader, because you know what happens in the end. However, the emotion is still there, and you can imagine a tearful reunion when Pell comes back to the palace. It seems like an assholish thing to be like "you didn't die when you put your life on the line to save your country? Well everything I was feeling at the time is negated, and you are a dick for living". I know that's not what people are necessarily thinking, but it is along those lines.
It's one thing to question how someone survived. That's fine, and in some ways it goes along with the miracle aspect of One Piece. However, I don't think the scenes before should be considered ruined just because they survive.
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@DHL:
To show that CoA isn't as fancy as expected.
To have Doflamingo straight up deny him his dream.
He didn't need to come back for either of those. It was pretty clear Doflamingo found Bellamy to be uselessthe first time. And there's been plenty of other characters this arc to fill Haki demonstration do's and don'ts. He didn't even need to be a catalyst for making Luffy want ro fight harder. He met like 3 others that were just as or even more impacted by Doflamingo's actions.
He was 100% unnecessary as far as I can see.
I don't hate his return. It was just so far incredibly pointless.
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@.access:
He was shown holding the bomb immediately before the explosion.
If we assume he dropped the bomb after that last panel showing him, he would have AT BEST 1 second to get away. And if we assume he did it and at 320km/h (= ignoring acceleration and assuming he would be at his max speed since the very start) he still would only be able to get 9 meters away… pretty much nothing in a 5km blast.
Also, there is the fact that he was flying UP right before the bomb exploded. That huge speed you are talking about is when the falcon drops DOWN, meaning that if he really was flying away from the bomb in that panel, he would still need to drop in order to accelerate and that would get him closer to the bomb instead of far from it... So no.
Pretty much. Also, Pell still had to break from flying upwards.
Or Oda picked the fastest animal in the Kingdom for that scenario - and as they showed - he didn't escape the explosion - he just didn't take the full brunt of it which is often the difference between life and death.
Exactly, a bomb that should destroy a whole town, can't kill a single person close to the core of the explosion. It's a great example of plot magic. Not that there's anything wrong with that in a fantasy world, just that a falcons speed is not a valid explanation at all for him to survive.
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Brownbeard is a recent example. Law not dying despite doffy's attempts to kill him when he's down. Monet(?).
It's just annoying because it takes away suspension of disbelief from what is otherwise an amazing series.
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Just… accept it.
Unless it's a flashback where children and parents die left and right, people will stay alive.
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Yes i imagine how many people could survive an attack that leaves a hole in the ground large as a house…sure make sense.
Real life stats + shonen armour + oda = insane endurability.
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@DHL:
Real life stats + shonen armour + oda = insane endurability.
Yes that's more accurate than real life stats somehow XD
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I think, and this is my opinion, that the worst thing about One Piece is the lack for Love and Death in the series.
For example,
1- Oda cannot kill main nor side characters in the story just for the purpose of keeping a comedic atmosphere around the SHs, including bad/evil characters.
2- He can't make characters fall in love with each other like any normal relationship and prefers to keep it at the level of fan-service and Harem.You cannot say that, because it's a Shounen Manga, it justifies those types of flaws in the story, while what they really do is that, they shake OP's image so bad and take the realism out of its deep story.
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Pell is alive because he mastered the awakening of his devil fruit!
On Alpha2late17 channel, he noted something important about the awakening of Zoans !
Croco : "It's only natural that would revive…those beasts are awakened zoans users !"
Zoans users can revive through their awakening. Maybe it's the same for Pell...
which can refer to many lives of animals (cats, dogs etc ...) -
I think, and this is my opinion, that the worst thing about One Piece is the lack for Love and Death in the series.
For example,
1- Oda cannot kill main nor side characters in the story just for the purpose of keeping a comedic atmosphere around the SHs, including bad/evil characters.
2- He can't make characters fall in love with each other like any normal relationship and prefers to keep it at the level of fan-service and Harem.You cannot say that, because it's a Shounen Manga, it justifies those types of flaws in the story, while what they really do is that, they shake OP's image so bad and take the realism out of its deep story.
there is love. most of all brotherly love (ace-sabo-luffy). and some examples of couples (sai-baby5).
you want to see all the SH members in a relationship between them, having kids? i sure dont
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2- He can't make characters fall in love with each other like any normal relationship and prefers to keep it at the level of fan-service and Harem.
How is no romance for the main characters a flaw? There's already enough going on and those types of subplots would distract from the core focus of the series.
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Can we just accept oda is that kind of mangaka who not gonna kill his characters except in flashback, fodders, an their dead are important to story line.
don't push real life logic to one piece -
bellamy should be dead
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Most fake deaths in One Piece to be honest. I have no idea why people say Pell is the first one, we have a consistent theme where this happens before. A normal human, the friend of Vivi and all that happened to him along with the guy Vivi went to join Crocodile's crew with who blew up in a ship but survived because reasons. After the Alabasta arc where I was essentially laughing once Pell survived and how nonsensical this theme is but at least I accepeted it afterwards. Which is why the only time I've been surprised or rather had any shock value into over a decades worth of chapters in the manga/anime afterwards are Ace actually dying and the events of Archipelago (I knew they might make it, but nonetheless..). I've felt a sense of danger in this series possibly 3 times max in 10+ years since that arc.
It would be nice if some fans would be rather content with what Oda does in regards to this as I was post-Alabasta arc, and obviously some don't care. The only way to be ok with this is if you don't care that characters fake die. Any other reasoning including the silly 'crushed dreams' statement as if it makes it comprehensible or ok end up sounding like the worst possible fanboys you get out of any series. Which you will end up finding no matter what for every series, especially in a forum that is mostly all about the series. This is why we have someone get stabbed in the heart and left alone, and a completely divided forum on whether she lived or died at that event.
Notice that this is an issue I have with comics and other shonen series in general, though I feel Oda is by far the worst at it from the ones that I've read.
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I for one eagerly await the cover story starring the mountain bandit Lucky Roux shot.
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I have always liked to think Robin faked Igaram's death considering it was never explained how he survived the explosion she set.
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someone mentioned brownbeard, I´m REALLY curious as to why hawkins let him live, and why his prediction didn´t become true (because I´m guessing Hawkins´s predictions are and will always be a huge part of his fighting/lifestyle, so it really strikes me as odd that one of them failed even before we get to know him properly)
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Pell is a notorious case because it's an emotional fake-out. It has nothing to do with physics or 5km blasts or being a really fast peregrine falcon,.
@The:As for my main point, I find it somewhat disturbing that a person who puts their life on the line and doesn't die is a bad thing. Here's how I look at the scene now, knowing that Pell survives (I'll have to go into more detail in the reread section once I get there). There are no more options, and Pell must take the blow of the bomb. In the condition that he is already in, and having heard what the bomb is supposed to be like, he gives Vivi a farewell. He fully expects he won't survive so he wants to give his final farewell to someone he deeply cares about. Pell takes the bomb, it explodes, and everyone assumes he died. At the end, we found out he survived, but don't know how.
Basically, Pell was ready to be a sacrifice, but he somehow survived. It's something that actually happens, where someone survives an event where by all rights, they should be dead. Him being alive doesn't take out the moment of him being selfless, and the despair that Vivi had. Really, the only thing we can say is that you aren't as sad in that scene as a reader, because you know what happens in the end. However, the emotion is still there, and you can imagine a tearful reunion when Pell comes back to the palace. It seems like an assholish thing to be like "you didn't die when you put your life on the line to save your country? Well everything I was feeling at the time is negated, and you are a dick for living". I know that's not what people are necessarily thinking, but it is along those lines.
It's one thing to question how someone survived. That's fine, and in some ways it goes along with the miracle aspect of One Piece. However, I don't think the scenes before should be considered ruined just because they survive.
Well, it's more about execution that knowing what happens in the end, especially with One Piece. Pell's sacrifice is still a pretty awesome scene. The flashback montage is used nicely here.
The problem is that the scene, which is meant to be a heroic sacrifice, is dampened with the knowledge that nothing but time was sacrificed in the end. It was a "wow!" moment because Pell was giving up his life for the kingdom, and that impact is lessened because he didn't actually give up his life. People feel cheated. It's as if Oda can't stand that people die in his world and his story, no, everyone's gotta be alive and live happily. It's like an OCD thing. Leave Pell dead and suddenly there's a twitchy feeling. Vivi and co. are unhappy. That's not right.
And also Luffy told Vivi that reality is harsh and people die. Nope, not really Luffy, only your brother is the one that dies.
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Yeah, I don't really care about no one dying in OP. I think that becomes a problem in a manga when it is one sided (only bad guys die while good guys are impervious to that) and I actually think it is one of OP charming qualities.
My problem is that Oda keeps using supposed deathes as cliffhangers only to cop out later. If you don't want to kill anyone, great, but don't keep fooling the readers into thinking characters are dying (although I blame those readers for their naivety) nor keep building tension scenes around someone's supposed death (because it fails to connect to the reader that is aware no one is dying there).
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@.access:
If you don't want to kill anyone, great, but don't keep fooling the readers into thinking characters are dying (although I blame those readers for their naivety) nor keep building tension scenes around someone's supposed death (because it fails to connect to the reader that is aware no one is dying there).
I remember being a little miffed about this happening to the petrified marines back at Punk Hazard. Their last scene was to make Tashigi keep going, giving a final thumbs up to their "Captain-chan", and then….
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And threads like this are why I have my signature.
Your signature ignores the entire point of the Pells Sacrifice scene, as well as the issues people have with his survival. Sigh, as a crummy geezer on this boards these arguments can be tiring in their refusal to die, but on the flip side, I can just use my old arguments again!
[hide]The only way Pell would have not been at the epicenter of the bomb would be if he'd let it go. Or somehow fumbled it.
Both huge insults to his character, and farrrrrrr more detrimental to his sacrifical scene than him tanking the blast (and thus rendering the bombs threat level void).What Pell says in the manga is "Farewell princess! I am the guardian spirit of Alabasta! I will lay down my life to protect everyone!", but if you suddenly have Pell wanting to survive and letting the bomb go before it explodes, that means Pell was actually thinking
"You know, if I let go of this bomb now, theres a chance I can save my own skin! It propably wont make a difference to the people below!"You are also saying that this decision has to be squeezed into his inner monologue, basically at the time where Pell smiles contently, knowing he's sacrificing himself to protect everyone.
Pell survived, because Oda wanted him to survive.
Pell ended up far away, because it made narrative sense to postpone the reveal of his survival, and that meant he had to wind up outside the city.
Thats all there is to it.Its true Pells sacrifice evoked a positive reading experience the first time you read it- assuming you didn't know any better than to think him dead. But the scene will never get that response ever again, and is countered by an equally negative experience upon his survival: The sacrifice was negated? All the drama and symbolism amounted to a torso scar? What?
And now, upon any reread of Alabasta, you will read the scene, shake your head at all the drama and soaring emotions on display, because you know its undone later. That Pell Intended to sacrifice himself doesn't matter; that was not what the scene was telling us. Its like if a story pulls the "it was all a dream!" excuse to undo dramatic events: how do they maintain emotional stakes, if they ultimately are revealed to have had none?The Pell debacle is frustrating because Oda undermined both the most clear-cut fatal noble sacrifice he could ever make, with symbolism out the wazoo
We see a statue. The statue is of the guardian spirit, the falcon. The statue breaks, the falcon now is no more.
Meanwhile, Pell, a guardian falcon, sacrifices his life. The falcon now is no more.What you're doing by stating Pell just dodged the explosion is moving backwards from Pells survival, altering your interpretation of his sacrifice. If Pell hadn't been shown alive? You would never have looked at the scene in any way but him being at the epicenter of the bomb, and dying. But since Pell lives, you have to retroactively assign a completely new meaning to the scene.
Plus, theres still the issue of Pell deciding to release the bomb not fitting into the sequence of events. What you're saying is that as the bomb explodes and Pell says "enemies of the kingdom will vanish into nothing!" He is blasting out of the explosions centre at breakneck speed?
Pells Survival also hurts the overall stakes of the Alabasta climax. I know Pell was a strong soldier more durable than average yo, but when the villains plan involve incenerating +2 million people with a bomb, showing a protagonist tanking the blast at point blank range removes the threat level from said bomb. Its not enough that the ordinary bystanders could have died, the heroes need to be in danger too.[/hide]
Or to sum up: If you believe that Pell survived because he let the bomb go with .000156 seconds to spare and fled with a speed of 1678 km/hm adjusted for OP beefing up of regular falcons, you are pretty much creating an alternate version of the manga in your head that runs contrary to Odas intent with the scene, as well as Pells characterization, just so that you can patch up a questionable writing hangup of Odas. This is the manga you are reading, in your mind:
[Hide]
[/Hide]And look, its not that we want characters to die because we are bloodthirsty and hate them, OMG Mr 2 how dare you survive and so on. Its because for a sacrifice to have lasting emotional impact, it needs consequences. If the G5 marines had actually died, that'd have been a moment we'd have talked about and remembered vividly and fondly- but Oda wants his cake and eat it too. He doesn't want chracters to die because he wants post-arc parties with only happy happy no worries feelings - but he will still pull heroic sacrifices constantly, so it becomes impossible to take seriously.
You can talk about sacrifices still counting because the characters intended to die, but they have no more worth than Naruto genjutsu/log fakeout #67b, even if you "really thought the character was in trouble, for a split second there".
Theres a reason Hiruluks death, or even Zeff eating his leg, are immortal moments, whereas Pell is a punchline.But I've seen enough of these discussions to know where it goes; As we all know, as long as a fault is reoccuring, it makes it exempt from criticism. With that in mind, here's a few post templates to streamline the thread
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Oda doesn't kill characters, News at 11
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Jesus, people are STILL talking about this? Yes, Oda doesn't kill. Get over it.
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Whitebeard and Ace says hi. Thread CLOSED
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If you've read OP for 787 chapters and still moan about the no deaths, then maybe you should stop reading
and so on and so forth
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30 years from now we'll still be complaining about Pell.
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@Daz:
Your signature ignores the entire point of the Pells Sacrifice scene, as well as the issues people have with his survival. Sigh, as a crummy geezer on this boards these arguments can be tiring in their refusal to die, but on the flip side, I can just use my old arguments again!
[hide]The only way Pell would have not been at the epicenter of the bomb would be if he'd let it go. Or somehow fumbled it.
Both huge insults to his character, and farrrrrrr more detrimental to his sacrifical scene than him tanking the blast (and thus rendering the bombs threat level void).What Pell says in the manga is "Farewell princess! I am the guardian spirit of Alabasta! I will lay down my life to protect everyone!", but if you suddenly have Pell wanting to survive and letting the bomb go before it explodes, that means Pell was actually thinking
"You know, if I let go of this bomb now, theres a chance I can save my own skin! It propably wont make a difference to the people below!"You are also saying that this decision has to be squeezed into his inner monologue, basically at the time where Pell smiles contently, knowing he's sacrificing himself to protect everyone.
Pell survived, because Oda wanted him to survive.
Pell ended up far away, because it made narrative sense to postpone the reveal of his survival, and that meant he had to wind up outside the city.
Thats all there is to it.Its true Pells sacrifice evoked a positive reading experience the first time you read it- assuming you didn't know any better than to think him dead. But the scene will never get that response ever again, and is countered by an equally negative experience upon his survival: The sacrifice was negated? All the drama and symbolism amounted to a torso scar? What?
And now, upon any reread of Alabasta, you will read the scene, shake your head at all the drama and soaring emotions on display, because you know its undone later. That Pell Intended to sacrifice himself doesn't matter; that was not what the scene was telling us. Its like if a story pulls the "it was all a dream!" excuse to undo dramatic events: how do they maintain emotional stakes, if they ultimately are revealed to have had none?The Pell debacle is frustrating because Oda undermined both the most clear-cut fatal noble sacrifice he could ever make, with symbolism out the wazoo
We see a statue. The statue is of the guardian spirit, the falcon. The statue breaks, the falcon now is no more.
Meanwhile, Pell, a guardian falcon, sacrifices his life. The falcon now is no more.What you're doing by stating Pell just dodged the explosion is moving backwards from Pells survival, altering your interpretation of his sacrifice. If Pell hadn't been shown alive? You would never have looked at the scene in any way but him being at the epicenter of the bomb, and dying. But since Pell lives, you have to retroactively assign a completely new meaning to the scene.
Plus, theres still the issue of Pell deciding to release the bomb not fitting into the sequence of events. What you're saying is that as the bomb explodes and Pell says "enemies of the kingdom will vanish into nothing!" He is blasting out of the explosions centre at breakneck speed?
Pells Survival also hurts the overall stakes of the Alabasta climax. I know Pell was a strong soldier more durable than average yo, but when the villains plan involve incenerating +2 million people with a bomb, showing a protagonist tanking the blast at point blank range removes the threat level from said bomb. Its not enough that the ordinary bystanders could have died, the heroes need to be in danger too.[/hide]
Or to sum up: If you believe that Pell survived because he let the bomb go with .000156 seconds to spare and fled with a speed of 1678 km/hm adjusted for OP beefing up of regular falcons, you are pretty much creating an alternate version of the manga in your head that runs contrary to Odas intent with the scene, as well as Pells characterization, just so that you can patch up a questionable writing hangup of Odas. This is the manga you are reading, in your mind:
[Hide]
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Lorenor/OnePiece-208-17-2_zps8d5f8e52.jpg[/Hide]And look, its not that we want characters to die because we are bloodthirsty and hate them, OMG Mr 2 how dare you survive and so on. Its because for a sacrifice to have lasting emotional impact, it needs consequences. If the G5 marines had actually died, that'd have been a moment we'd have talked about and remembered vividly and fondly- but Oda wants his cake and eat it too. He doesn't want chracters to die because he wants post-arc parties with only happy happy no worries feelings - but he will still pull heroic sacrifices constantly, so it becomes impossible to take seriously.
You can talk about sacrifices still counting because the characters intended to die, but they have no more worth than Naruto genjutsu/log fakeout #67b, even if you "really thought the character was in trouble, for a split second there".
Theres a reason Hiruluks death, or even Zeff eating his leg, are immortal moments, whereas Pell is a punchline.But I've seen enough of these discussions to know where it goes; As we all know, as long as a fault is reoccuring, it makes it exempt from criticism. With that in mind, here's a few post templates to streamline the thread
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Oda doesn't kill characters, News at 11
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Jesus, people are STILL talking about this? Yes, Oda doesn't kill. Get over it.
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Whitebeard and Ace says hi. Thread CLOSED
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If you've read OP for 787 chapters and still moan about the no deaths, then maybe you should stop reading
and so on and so forth
In fact I didn't create this topic in order to make up any sort of polemic, it's really just to find every characters should have been done and instead not, and why. The "Pell Effect" name is just a pun 'cause he's always been a symbol of this sort of events.
And for who protect Pell's not-so-sacrifice, just think about if Ace just didn't have been died and he come back at Summit War Arc's end.
Plus, the "Pell run the hell out of the explosion to supersonic speed" as Daz said has no meaning. More Oda-ish, he just got thrown away by the explosion and miraculously survived.
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The bombs killing radius and impact were obviously way smaller up there. Most bombs kill their victims with rubble, stones or shrapnels they push away from them very fast. Which does not apply in this case and Pell was a single cone shaped object, protecting his vital organs. Anyone considered that?
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I think, and this is my opinion, that the worst thing about One Piece is the lack for Love and Death in the series.
For example,
1- Oda cannot kill main nor side characters in the story just for the purpose of keeping a comedic atmosphere around the SHs, including bad/evil characters.
2- He can't make characters fall in love with each other like any normal relationship and prefers to keep it at the level of fan-service and Harem.You cannot say that, because it's a Shounen Manga, it justifies those types of flaws in the story, while what they really do is that, they shake OP's image so bad and take the realism out of its deep story.
1. Go read Akame Ga Kill or some crap shonen series if you are looking for pointless violence and death .
2. Do they have to ? Because One Piece has "love" but not shitty romance .Also the first one can be seen as a flaw but there is no way in hell that no romance is a flaw in any way.
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The bombs killing radius and impact were obviously way smaller up there. Most bombs kill their victims with rubble, stones or shrapnels they push away from them very fast. Which does not apply in this case and Pell was a single cone shaped object, protecting his vital organs. Anyone considered that?
With that reasoning you could just detonate a stick of dynamite in your hand without a problem
! Only try this with plot armor on!Everything close to the core will literally be obliterated, think ground zero. If Pell did get away from the initial blast wave there's still the shock wave rupturing his organs, making his veins explode, dismembering him. Not to mention the extreme heat and shrapnel from the bomb.
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Its fine that the heroes don't die. Thats part of the deal with signing up for a shonen. Even Pell surviing his heroic sacrifice is fine… cause he's a hero and a badass and he has something to live for.
The no death rule is fine... and not dying unless your smiling and passing on a dream is fine too... up until it starts getting in the way of the drama and your sense of disbelief. No one was bothered for even a second when the Franky Family was in danger, because we never believed it. It's also fine when no one dies while the heroes are around, cause they make things better.
The problem is, if everyone can survive horrific deadly damage... including random nameless shmucks, then it makes the heroes less heroic, the villains less villainous, and the stakes are lower. The tenryubiito are awful horrible monsters... but they're also jokes.
That Oda keeps going to the "oh no, this character died!" route is problematic since he pretty much never, ever means it. Look at how much discussion there still is about Monet, 2 years later. One of the most graphic on camera deaths he's done, and still his storytelling staples and attitudes mean she's alive and well and showing up in a cover story soon. (Though all the more impressive he can make us worry when say, Zoro when Kuma mucks with him and such)
It is a flaw in Oda's storytelling. That he made an exception for Ace and Whitebeard (and eventually Shanks) doesn't mean much when every other example since then has continued to survive, proving those are only exceptions for the plot. Nothing wrong with happy endings, at all. But that being the case, he should lean a little less on the "death" card as well when he doesn't mean it. The recent 3 or 4 Law fakeouts in a row were prime examples... he couldn't even leave his arm severed as a price.
I am kinda curious what happened to Oars III though. He wasn't seen after the war at all, was huge, and considered dead... but wasn't mourned like Ace and WB were.
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@Daz:
Your signature ignores the entire point of the Pells Sacrifice scene, as well as the issues people have with his survival. Sigh, as a crummy geezer on this boards these arguments can be tiring in their refusal to die, but on the flip side, I can just use my old arguments again!
[hide]The only way Pell would have not been at the epicenter of the bomb would be if he'd let it go. Or somehow fumbled it.
Both huge insults to his character, and farrrrrrr more detrimental to his sacrifical scene than him tanking the blast (and thus rendering the bombs threat level void).What Pell says in the manga is "Farewell princess! I am the guardian spirit of Alabasta! I will lay down my life to protect everyone!", but if you suddenly have Pell wanting to survive and letting the bomb go before it explodes, that means Pell was actually thinking
"You know, if I let go of this bomb now, theres a chance I can save my own skin! It propably wont make a difference to the people below!"You are also saying that this decision has to be squeezed into his inner monologue, basically at the time where Pell smiles contently, knowing he's sacrificing himself to protect everyone.
Pell survived, because Oda wanted him to survive.
Pell ended up far away, because it made narrative sense to postpone the reveal of his survival, and that meant he had to wind up outside the city.
Thats all there is to it.Its true Pells sacrifice evoked a positive reading experience the first time you read it- assuming you didn't know any better than to think him dead. But the scene will never get that response ever again, and is countered by an equally negative experience upon his survival: The sacrifice was negated? All the drama and symbolism amounted to a torso scar? What?
And now, upon any reread of Alabasta, you will read the scene, shake your head at all the drama and soaring emotions on display, because you know its undone later. That Pell Intended to sacrifice himself doesn't matter; that was not what the scene was telling us. Its like if a story pulls the "it was all a dream!" excuse to undo dramatic events: how do they maintain emotional stakes, if they ultimately are revealed to have had none?The Pell debacle is frustrating because Oda undermined both the most clear-cut fatal noble sacrifice he could ever make, with symbolism out the wazoo
We see a statue. The statue is of the guardian spirit, the falcon. The statue breaks, the falcon now is no more.
Meanwhile, Pell, a guardian falcon, sacrifices his life. The falcon now is no more.What you're doing by stating Pell just dodged the explosion is moving backwards from Pells survival, altering your interpretation of his sacrifice. If Pell hadn't been shown alive? You would never have looked at the scene in any way but him being at the epicenter of the bomb, and dying. But since Pell lives, you have to retroactively assign a completely new meaning to the scene.
Plus, theres still the issue of Pell deciding to release the bomb not fitting into the sequence of events. What you're saying is that as the bomb explodes and Pell says "enemies of the kingdom will vanish into nothing!" He is blasting out of the explosions centre at breakneck speed?
Pells Survival also hurts the overall stakes of the Alabasta climax. I know Pell was a strong soldier more durable than average yo, but when the villains plan involve incenerating +2 million people with a bomb, showing a protagonist tanking the blast at point blank range removes the threat level from said bomb. Its not enough that the ordinary bystanders could have died, the heroes need to be in danger too.[/hide]
Or to sum up: If you believe that Pell survived because he let the bomb go with .000156 seconds to spare and fled with a speed of 1678 km/hm adjusted for OP beefing up of regular falcons, you are pretty much creating an alternate version of the manga in your head that runs contrary to Odas intent with the scene, as well as Pells characterization, just so that you can patch up a questionable writing hangup of Odas. This is the manga you are reading, in your mind:
[Hide]
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Lorenor/OnePiece-208-17-2_zps8d5f8e52.jpg[/Hide]And look, its not that we want characters to die because we are bloodthirsty and hate them, OMG Mr 2 how dare you survive and so on. Its because for a sacrifice to have lasting emotional impact, it needs consequences. If the G5 marines had actually died, that'd have been a moment we'd have talked about and remembered vividly and fondly- but Oda wants his cake and eat it too. He doesn't want chracters to die because he wants post-arc parties with only happy happy no worries feelings - but he will still pull heroic sacrifices constantly, so it becomes impossible to take seriously.
You can talk about sacrifices still counting because the characters intended to die, but they have no more worth than Naruto genjutsu/log fakeout #67b, even if you "really thought the character was in trouble, for a split second there".
Theres a reason Hiruluks death, or even Zeff eating his leg, are immortal moments, whereas Pell is a punchline.But I've seen enough of these discussions to know where it goes; As we all know, as long as a fault is reoccuring, it makes it exempt from criticism. With that in mind, here's a few post templates to streamline the thread
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Oda doesn't kill characters, News at 11
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Jesus, people are STILL talking about this? Yes, Oda doesn't kill. Get over it.
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Whitebeard and Ace says hi. Thread CLOSED
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If you've read OP for 787 chapters and still moan about the no deaths, then maybe you should stop reading
and so on and so forth
Excellent explanation of Pell's sacrifice and its implications as well.
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Nowadays, no one dying in OP is pretty much a fandom meme.