Full Metal Alchemist Discussion
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Been looking for a new recent manga to get into. I think I've found it. I take it starts in July?
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Awesome, I've been looking to get into something new, bunch of manga i read recently finished. Hope it's a hit.
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Jumping on the hype bandwagon. Super psyched about this. The guy looks like an older, more stoic Edward though. Ah what the heck, I'll imagine it as Ed returning back to the West which has an uncanny resemblance to historical Persia.
EDIT: On second thought, Ed's height may create a plot hole. Yep, that's the only thing in the way of my super-awesome idea.
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Someone married their stepmom and then got murdered?
Sounds like he used a monkey paw to make a porno story come true.
Then the curse of the paw eventually killed him.
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Whoever is in charge of the Bessatsu Shounen Magazine is doing something right. I'm looking forward to this.
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Arakawa is truly a treasure in the japanese comic industry. I wonder why some talented artists/writers like her keep away from Jump. Lord knows Jump could benefit from talent and dedication like hers :getlost: (well…Jump did get some good ones that are sticking around from the past year at least).
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Big bump because I couldn't find a thread.
Anyway, I'm re-watching the superior FMA series (you know, the one made in 2003 of course), just so I can bask in its glory. (But please don't give me spoilers on the rest of the series or Brotherhood, because it's been at least 2 years since I've watched it.)
So far I've watched up to episode 24. So far it's been good, but episode 24 was a bit underwhelming. Al was going through and epic existential crisis (and it was wonderfully done), but he got over it, rather quickly, without Edward never explicitly sating whether or not he really did create a fake Alphonse…
and the brothers' mom being blind but hiding it was interesting, but they could have at least shown when she was blind, because the reasoning felt kind of weak as hell...
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I have never watched 2003 series.
Just couldn't do it after Brotherhood, cause you know, getting used to stuff and characters being different.
But from what I have heard.. I hope your signature changes :ninja:
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Brotherhood and the manga have been committed to memory….is the 2003 series worth checking out? I heard it's too darn depressing, plus some plot points are kinda wonky.
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Brotherhood and the manga have been committed to memory….is the 2003 series worth checking out? I heard it's too darn depressing, plus some plot points are kinda wonky.
The only problem with the 2003 version is when they go to original content, but even that is still satisfying. Full Metal Brotherhood as a too fast of a pacing and removes a lot of things. In that, part the 2003 version is way better, but it becomes better when the Xing people start to appear, characters that don't appear in the 2003 version.
Also I don't know if they change certain things in brotherhood but it seems like they do, because there are certain things that I don't remember from the manga and Brotherhood as. Like the obvious romance between Winry and Edward. -
Well, I would recommend checking out the 2003 series if you have the time. It gets pretty angsty, but I mean I'd say it's worth the trip. The way Arakawa frames everything past the trip to Rush Valley is just damn great though, so as far as I'm concerned
Yeah between Brotherhood and 2003, 2003 paces it better somewhat because they always had the intention of going off rail with the story because they basically started it waaaayyyy too early in the lifespan of the manga so it had that benefit, and even with five cour it was tough to fit the entire manga storyline in Brotherhood, but overall the original manga/Brotherhood just pretty much blows the 2003 out of the water unless you're a fan of angst.
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There were elements I liked better in the 2003 version. The origin of the sins, for instance,a tighter focus on Ed, Al and Scar because a huge chunk of the secondary cast was never introduced… and the music was amazing (as were the openings.) Also, the first thirteen episodes or so were much stronger overall, as they were able to hindsight tie some things together like the birth of Hugh's child, sneaking in Barry the Chopper earlier, and their handling of the entire Nina plotline... while the second anime sort of went "ehh, people have already seen this part, lets speed through it as fast as possible."
Its biggest flaw is the ending REALLY sucked, (it just totally falls apart in the last... 3 episodes or so) to the point it had to go into a fairly bad movie to really wrap up, and it just sort of hurts the whole package. If it had nailed the landing it might actually have been the better series overall... but the ending is just... SO out there and unfulfilling, even (especially) with the Movie.
The manga/brotherhood has a better grasp of the characters obviously, runs longer, has more characters and an overall more satisfying ending and overall message... but since I never really liked the entire Northern sequence, and just never ended up caring much for the Xing crowd, a lot of its charms were lost on me.
They both have their strengths and weaknesses, though if the 2003 anime had never existed I don't think that I'd notice or feel any of them in the actual series.
Like the obvious romance between Winry and Edward.
If you don't remember it, thats cause you weren't looking. But that was definitely in the actual manga.
Ed even proposes to her in the last chapter!
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The only problem with the 2003 version is when they go to original content, but even that is still satisfying. Full Metal Brotherhood as a too fast of a pacing and removes a lot of things. In that, part the 2003 version is way better, but it becomes better when the Xing people start to appear, characters that don't appear in the 2003 version.
Also I don't know if they change certain things in brotherhood but it seems like they do, because there are certain things that I don't remember from the manga and Brotherhood as. Like the obvious romance between Winry and Edward.Is there a difference between the original manga and brotherhood in terms of content ?
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@Doffy.:
Is there a difference between the original manga and brotherhood in terms of content ?
Not really. They just speed through some stuff, (especially the early material) skip a scene here or there to move it along. But they're basically the same.
If they'd had a few more episodes it would have gotten in every last thing, probably.
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Not really. They just speed through some stuff, (espeically the early material) skip a scene here or there to move it along. But they're basically the same.
So no major parts skipped or changed to fit the anime better , just rushing through some material ?
Edit : I always thought it was weird that the anime covered all 27 volumes in just 64 episodes .
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If you don't remember it, thats cause you weren't looking. But that was definitely in the actual manga.
Ed even proposes to her in the last chapter!
Probably Is just me that don't remember! But of course I'm not talking of the proposition nor the last chapter! I'm talking of every explicit thing before that, like when Winry talked with Hawkeye and she talked about her loving Ed and her reaction, Winry sending everybody out of her room except Ed, and stuff like that.
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Its been a while since I read the manga or watched Brotherhood, but…there was definitely romance stuff in the manga.
I went through them far enough apart I couldn't really say what was skipped or rushed through specifically... (though they sped through most of the starting stuff since the first anime covered it) but most of it is in there.
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@Doffy.:
So no major parts skipped or changed to fit the anime better , just rushing through some material ?
Edit : I always thought it was weird that the anime covered all 27 volumes in just 64 episodes .
Aside fom the "previously adapted" episodes, as Robby already mentioed, the most major omissions I can remeber were in the Ishval flashback, which was reeeeeeally condensed in theanime, and lost a lot of neatltte scenes. Once you hit that I'd recommend checking out the manga.
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Also, the first episode of Brotherhood is original to the anime.
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@Doffy.:
So no major parts skipped or changed to fit the anime better , just rushing through some material ?
Edit : I always thought it was weird that the anime covered all 27 volumes in just 64 episodes .
Depends what you mean major. The main plot line obviously is there being that Brotherhood follows the manga from the beginning to the end.
There are a lot of stuff that they totally remove or reduce. The 1st arc of the manga, the one that starts in 1st chapter, is reduced. The 2nd arc is totally removed, the one of the coal mine(Where Ed makes gold. Funny thing is, material from that is used later, so they make a pseudo-flashback, pseudo-resume of what happened in this arc).The 3rd arc, the train attack is also totally removed.
After that I don't remember if they remove anything more, but certainly there are some reductions. -
Yeah, 110 chapters or so in which each chapter is something around 50 pages is just… not doable in five cour. So I'd imagine they figured people were pretty familiar with the early bits and tried to get to Rush Valley and the Xingese entourage ASAP
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Well, I loved the Xing people and Olivia and her entourage.
The origin of the sins, while the '03 way had more potential, it was mostly wasted as "ah, but he's special! and he's no one relevant! and who cares about gluttony!", being more elegant in the original material.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Besides, with them you run in the same issue that any logical thinking of the stand names during part 3 of jojo's comes around, what if there's already another Wrath/Star tarot card? In something like bobobobobobobo you have an epic gag fight, and whomever is still standing gets to keep the name, but here in a serious context.. The theme of the sins is either an aftertought or the core of the characters.
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I only watched Brotherhood/read the manga (and loved it), and have considered checking out the 2003 anime. My main thing is just that I know it'll be distracting when I come across the different plot points, explanations, and character reveals (like I already know that Wrath in the manga is actually Pride in the 2003 anime). Still, I know a lot of people prefer it, so I'm interested to see it.
It'll be nice to see some of the early stuff fleshed out more, too, since Brotherhood sped through it so quickly.
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I don't get the "you'll like 2003 if you're a fan of angst" comment. It sounds condescending when you put it that way, especially since you're implying that anything that has tragedy and sadness is automatically "lol angsty emo teen 2deep4 Ed lol"
2003 just had more emotion and heart to me, that's all. It was well directed, the pacing was better, etc. Also importantly, 2003 did a better job of laying off on the comedic or light-hearted moments later on in the show, or when things were getting serious, period.(Again though, I haven't watched Brotherhood in awhile, so my memory is foggy).
I will rewatch Brohood after I finish 2003.
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No, it got pretty angsty. The movie especially didn't give it any points in its favor. Things get really hairy when it comes to the ending in general, really.
And I mean like, the comedy is a staple of the series. It kept the serious punches where it mattered, but it's pretty inherent in its identity, but the comedy doesn't leak into the actual important scenes. It's a pretty similar situation to Gash Bell, too, where a lot of the humor is kept around but never interfering with the final struggle against the final antagonist. Or Doubutsu no Kuni introducing a wacky as balls chimera while animals are desperately climbing up the final dungeon. Or Lucifer and Biscuit Hammer. Like the humor and charm are intrinsic parts of the flavor in this case, and the humor that is present doesn't really obscure the intense moments of the final arc.
Both are still good of course, and as Robby said, one of 2003's strong points was more focus on Al and Ed, but pretty much everything else in terms of execution falls short of Arakawa's writing.
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You're still making as if "angst" is some sort of legitimately bad thing, and you're not really explaining it what makes it bad. The reason why I'm arguing this is because, well, Ed and Al had legitimate reasons to have anxiety and sadness (which there wasn't even that much of; it was mostly frustration, with anxiety being featured in battle or disturbing discoveries). I feel as if when you say angst in a dismissive manner, it's like as if you're saying "sadness/darkness = bad" or something.
Anyway, I just watched the last 3 episodes of the series. Of course, the plot went down the drain quite a lot (For instance, there were massive reaches in assumptions by the characters for the sake of advancing the plot quick enough. The "real world" plot point didn't feel introduced well, nor did it mesh well with the concept of "the gate" at all).
But I was still satisfied, because the emotion and pathos carried the show through at that point and was done well as Ed and his brother never really caught a break at all in the show.
I''m gonna watch Brotherhood after this.
And forgive me if I sound too passive aggressive here. I'm not trying to.
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The "fuck it, I'm going to punch the last boss in the face. Really hard." was infinitely a better resolve for Ed than… whatever the pile of mess that was the conclusion to the 2003 non-Arakawa one.
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The "fuck it, I'm going to punch the last boss in the face. Really hard." was infinitely a better resolve for Ed than… whatever the pile of mess that was the conclusion to the 2003 non-Arakawa one.
I hated Conqueror of Shamballa. I don't know if I even wanna watch it actually.
the only good thing about it was the animation.
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Aohige's right, and he's not talking about conqueror of Shamballa either
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The last couple episodes of the anime, and the followup movie, were collectively bad enough to sour me on the entire franchise for YEARS… I didn't get around to actually reading the manga until a couple years ago when Brotherhood starrted airing on CN and I saw a few scenes that seemed interesting.
Like, the whole thing builds up to a grand secret of life, the universe, and everything, and their answer is "Nazi london." To the point that for 10 years now me and one of my friends when talking about the first show will just say, in an incredulous tone "LONDON?" and that just sums it all up. I dunno that I'll ever rewatch the first show even though theres a lot to like. As strong as the first three seasons are (the third mostly on momentum with Greed and Scar) the last bit just ruins it so utterly. I did like that Rose came back to bookend the thing though.
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eh. i wanna rewatch the first series, cause they did such a great job with character development. maybe i'll drag you along for the ride. ^_^
but yeah …..."london"
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Finally finished brotherhood. Great series overall despite some flaws. From the comments above, it seem that Brotherhood skips some of the manga material? And the 2003 series have a terrible ending?
! Just curious
So, what did Ed did to the main villain instead punching the shit out of him in the 2003 anime?
Also, did the manga ever address Hohenheim's death?
I found it kinda funny how Edward and Al didn't seem to care that their dad died in front of their mother's grave. Lol -
Their dad was like 300 years old and wasn't around much. Any grievances were offscreen.
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! So, what did Ed did to the main villain instead punching the shit out of him in the 2003 anime?
! Basically it turns out that the secret to the alchemic gate is that it actually draws its power from the death of civilians in our (real life) world circa World War I, where Ed and Hohenheim get sent through the gate to London of all places by the big bad, and Ed taking the body of his counterpart on the other side. Ed somehow manages to get back because his body's in the gate still but then he gets shanked by Envy who turns out to have a vendetta against the Elrics because he's the homunculus created from Hohenheim and the big bad's son. Al (who happens to be the philosopher's stone because of some events involving Scar and Kimblee a few episodes earlier), breaks free from Gluttony who was holding him down and uses his philosopher's stone powers to bring Ed back to life at the cost of his own and Gluttony goes berserk and eats the big bad. Ed then calls back Al's soul who gets his body back while Ed goes back to London where he goes to Munich to meet a rocket scientist who is Al's counterpart who might be able to get him sent back to his true world.
! Oh yeah, and Envy turns into a dragon and goes to London to kill Hohenheim. The end. -
Also homonunculus are the result of failed human transmutation, except when they aren't.
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Also homonunculus are the result of failed human transmutation, except when they aren't.
You're not you when you're ???
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@Purple:
! Basically it turns out that the secret to the alchemic gate is that it actually draws its power from the death of civilians in our (real life) world circa World War I, where Ed and Hohenheim get sent through the gate to London of all places by the big bad, and Ed taking the body of his counterpart on the other side. Ed somehow manages to get back because his body's in the gate still but then he gets shanked by Envy who turns out to have a vendetta against the Elrics because he's the homunculus created from Hohenheim and the big bad's son. Al (who happens to be the philosopher's stone because of some events involving Scar and Kimblee a few episodes earlier), breaks free from Gluttony who was holding him down and uses his philosopher's stone powers to bring Ed back to life at the cost of his own and Gluttony goes berserk and eats the big bad. Ed then calls back Al's soul who gets his body back while Ed goes back to London where he goes to Munich to meet a rocket scientist who is Al's counterpart who might be able to get him sent back to his true world.
! Oh yeah, and Envy turns into a dragon and goes to London to kill Hohenheim. The end.Those last three episodes sound even worse when you condense them down to one paraagraph instead of an hour or so of time.
Also homonunculus are the result of failed human transmutation, except when they aren't.
4 of the 7 were given specific human origins (tied to the main cast even!) and I don't remember Greed, Gluttony or Pride contradicting that? Though it has been like 10 years.
eh. i wanna rewatch the first series, cause they did such a great job with character development. maybe i'll drag you along for the ride. ^_^
but yeah …..."london"
Gimme a good excuse and I'm willing to rewatch it. And Brotherhood also, probably since I never really watched that one.
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The 2003 anime ending is pretty much a trainwreck. I'm tempted to watch it.
Isn't homonuculus created from the philosophers stone?
Well, thanks for the reply. -
The 2003 anime ending is pretty much a trainwreck. I'm tempted to watch it.
Isn't homonuculus created from the philosophers stone?
Well, thanks for the reply.! Homunculi are created from failed attempts at human transmutation, so in 2003, Sloth was basically Zombie Mom, Wrath was made from Izumi's still-born kid, Lust is created from Scar's bro's girlfriend I think, Envy is the oldest homunculus created by Hohenheim and the big bad after their kid died, and Pride (who is Bradley in this version), Gluttony, and Greed are created from unknown people but it is implied that at least Greed and Pride were created via human transmutation, as they shared the same weakness as all other homunculi in that they become paralyzed when they are near a remnant of the actual person, be it a lock of hair or whatever. Most of the homunculi are created by poor schmucks who just want to see someone they love again, and I think what Maxter was alluding to was that at least Pride and Gluttony were manufactured by Dante without that sort of intent behind them strangely enough.
! The Big Bad, Dante, who was Izumi's master and Hohenheim's former lover before he hooked up with Trisha, fed the homunculi weaker philosopher's stones to mature them to full potential (and I guess a lot of them start off looking like Trisha after Ed and Al attempted human transmutation at the beginning, because she wants to use them as helpers to make legit philosopher's stones, as you can use the legit ones to transfer your soul from body to body, but after awhile the body rejects the soul and the body decays (which is why Hohenheim leaves Trisha in this version), and in any case, the legit philosopher stone they used before to do the switcheroo is running out so Dante wants a new one -
The entire Dante explanation and ending probably would have been pretty much fine if it hadn't just sort of started in the last couple episodes, and had really been given time to develop and work with. It was sort of alluded with Hoenheim, but…
and of course, the time they gave to the LONDON?!? subplot/explanation could have been put into that instead and it probably could have been a fairly satisfactory resolution with the extra 2/3 episodes(and movie?) worth of screentime that would have afforded them. We didn't NEED to know what was behind the gate or providing the power, it existing was in and of itself pretty much an explanation, and basically sufficed for the actual manga.
It is interesting though that in both versions, their father is initially set up to be kind of evil and possibly behind everything, and then later its shown he's actually opposed to the REAL evil... though the manga version giving him an evil twin just mucks that around even more.
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Just finished watching Brotherhood and I gotta say, it was awesome.
I was pondering for a long time whether to read manga or to watch anime, and ultimately decided I'm in a mood for animation. I know about the manga/anime differences and it doesn't seem that bad.
I guess not all parts were perfect, but all in all, it was pretty damn good. Each aspect of the story was satisfying. The end was alright. I especially enjoyed the closing with those pictures on the wall. Such a nice and subtle way to show what went on later in the story.
Not sure if I'll ever see '03. anime. Heard some stuff about the end. Don't really like messy endings. Watched enough anime with those.
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So, the manga didn't grab me and brotherhood didn't either, so I tried the third option and I'm 7 episodes in the 2003 version. I think it did such a better job with the Nina reveal. It almost seemed kind of rushed in the manga to me, just to get it out of the way, but here it was built better, with time passing when Ed was with Tucker and studying for the exam. Maybe it just seemed that way? Dunno.
Also, is it just me or is Hughes actually a character in this one? I was always confused as to why people consider it such a big deal why he died, it was sad, but, uh he barely had any screentime. I mean, in this version he was actualy on the train mission and we saw his kid being born. I don't remember exactly, but I don't think any of that was in the manga and this is still I think a while before he dies. -
So, the manga didn't grab me and brotherhood didn't either, so I tried the third option and I'm 7 episodes in the 2003 version. I think it did such a better job with the Nina reveal. It almost seemed kind of rushed in the manga to me, just to get it out of the way, but here it was built better, with time passing when Ed was with Tucker and studying for the exam. Maybe it just seemed that way? Dunno.
Also, is it just me or is Hughes actually a character in this one? I was always confused as to why people consider it such a big deal why he died, it was sad, but, uh he barely had any screentime. I mean, in this version he was actualy on the train mission and we saw his kid being born. I don't remember exactly, but I don't think any of that was in the manga and this is still I think a while before he dies.So basically You watched it in the wrong order. Brotherhood assumed you watched the 2003 one so rushed the first 25 episodes of the original so they could focus on new content. That's why Hughes get much less screen time in brotherhood. Nina was never meant to have much focus but she should have as 2003 anime shows
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I mean, in this version he was actualy on the train mission and we saw his kid being born. I don't remember exactly, but I don't think any of that was in the manga and this is still I think a while before he dies.
None of it was .
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I've only watched brotherhood, not the 2003 anime or the manga. Brotherhood is one of my top favorite series ever. Some stuff was rushed, but overall, it was great. Even though the stuff with Hughes probably wasn't in depth, I still found his death to be really tragic.
I found it really funny with two of my friends. They never watched Brotherhood, and were complaining about how it ruined his funeral. I asked them how it went in the original series, and when they told me, my response was "that's how it went in Brotherhood as well". Granted, it has been a while, so there might be some differences, but from what they told me, it sounded like the scenes were the same.
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Gracia asking why her father must be burried, and that she wants to see him again, the "it's raining" scene of Mustang, Bradley being retroactively a monster?
Maybe it's just that it was done better?
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Gracia asking why her father must be burried, and that she wants to see him again, the "it's raining" scene of Mustang, Bradley being retroactively a monster?
Maybe it's just that it was done better?
Like I said, I haven't seen both series, which I probably should at some point. The main thing was that from what they told me, and what I remember, the scenes sounded exactly the same. Now one could be better than the other for reasons I don't know, which would be more subjective. The main thing that got me was they were saying Brotherhood ruined the funeral scene, which they couldn't really explain, and the detail they could recall of the original seemed to match what I remember of Brotherhood.
I'm guessing the points you brought up where in Brotherhood and not the original? Also, anybody know of a place I could watch both series. Might do that at some point.
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I'm 13 episodes in. You know, Barry the chopper seemed like a generic shounen side villain in the manga, but he's scary as shit in here, the effectiveness is increased about a hundred fold because of his human design. All of it did happen in the manga in a way, but the framing and focus is completely different. I feel like they were planning to do a completely different thing from the manga from the start and thumbs up for that. The "filler" moments are not lazy stuff just to fill time unlike many other adaptions with ongoing manga. It's very obviously another take on the story.
