Bleach is one of the few shows I've watched where in the end, I say "What the fuck was even the point in this". And also "What the fuck was this shit even about".

My fucking god, it's ridiculous.

Bleach is one of those shows which never had a goal - which is fine. So Kubo SHOULD have focused it on Ichigo's coming of age; his experiences with both real life, and also shinigami life - which he actually DID d early on… but then stopped it shortly after the Vizard arc began. Consequently, that's when Bleach fell apart:

Kubo never really had a long term plot for the show: he said himself that the Aizen twist was written on the spot, and that he tends to write in a bunch of characters when he gets writer's block.

Put two and two together, and you see why Bleach became a meandering shitfest of endless fights between new characters with no development, and supporting characters that have little development (that they shoehorn in at the end of the fights).

And in the meanwhile, the former main characters like Ichigo, Chad, Orihimie, Uryu, Rukia (and even the side characters they were gonna be major like Tatsuki and Ichigo's sisters) either COMPLETELY LOSE their characters... or just fucking never appear anymore.

And that's bad, since again, Bleach never had a clear journey-style plot like Naruto and One Piece did.. it NEEDED Ichigo and his love ones/friends to be involved, since that's the only way Bleach could actually work as a show. But because those characters were fucked... the show fell apart as well.

I mean Naruto's last chapter was shit as well (why skip the very moments that the show was building up to? Kishi should have spent time showing the chapters after the Kaguya fight and letting everyone acknowledge Naruto. ).

But Bleach was even worse, because the show never even built up to any moment. It's epilogue was full of characters that no one really gave any shits about anymore, or had stunted character development. It didn't tie up that many loose ends. It didn't give any message, conclude any THEMES the show used to have, etc.

Bleach is the textbook example of how to not write a story past a certain point. PLAN AHEAD WHEN YOU WRITE.

@Jakisuaki:

Was bored, so I added my own touches to Sato's Luffy:

http://i.imgur.com/d2nqwIC.jpg
Tell me what you think :)

I like your edit.

I've always hated how they've made Luffy become more and more short/young as the series went on.

He used to be tall looking earlier in the show.

@HeartOfDarkness:

It would be one thing if Mashima failed in the first chapter, but regained his footing, and improved on the aspects. It's another when the opening chapter pretty much foreshadows the level of amateur mistakes that Mashima will continue to make.

If that were the case, Fairy Tail would have just been a very dull and boring show.

It became literally one of the worst written stories ever - at least that I've read. So nah, the first chapter 1's quality was nowhere near as putrid as the rest of it.

@HeartOfDarkness:

I love how you highlight a part that literally starts off with "otherwise the series beginning", and somehow take that as me insulting you.

Ah the irony.

But you quite literally said I was incompetent.

"Maybe for you.

Otherwise the series beginning was in-your-incompetent."

Just say what you mean more clearly I guess? What you said barely even looks like a sentence lol

@HeartOfDarkness:

Maybe for you.

Otherwise the series beginning was in-your-incompetent.

lol are you really calling me incompetent? We basically agree that the show sucks, yet you're calling me incompetent because we disagree on whether the series was ever not shitty at one point in the very beginning? I actually don't get it.

@HeartOfDarkness:

16 characters of Yep.

Nah. The first few chapters didn't do anything wrong.

The first chapter of One Piece wasn't particular great (at least imo) but it ended being a great series.

@ARTEMlS:

So you are saying the first chapter made perfectly clear that there was absolutely no potential for possible improvent by Mashima in any of these categories?

The first chapter was fine. I think @HeartofDarkness is beingneedlessly too harsh - and I say that as someone felt the show was bad earlier than most.

The series definitely had some potential. The setting was a bit unique - it was magic-focused, but did not have a medieval setting. It was hybrid between a modern day setting and classical one, and was bright. The different races of animals and humans, Natsu's first stated goal of finding his dad, etc. set up for a variety of cool plot points that could be explored.

The earliest arcs (up to Deliora) were not bad - they weren't good either, but nothing about them were bad. They were similar to the first 12 episodes of One Piece in that they weren't particularly great, but didn't do anything bad either. As I said, I think the earliest you can say the series became "shit" was Phantom Lord. That's when the real serious flaws (e.g. unearned emotional moments, lack of worldbuilding/context,

, lack of series direction) first hit.

But the first 20 episodes/45 chapters were not shit. Just average.

@Thatanas:

You say Bleach was good for 1/3rd of it's run, proceding to state that you knew FT was shit since FF. Which started well past the 1/3rd mark (chapter 256 = post Time-Skip, which I'll just use as the starting point for this arc). This was almost halfway through the Manga (46% done), so you seem to think FT had the longer and better run technically.

Fun stuff.

you knew FT was shit since FF. Which started well past the 1/3rd mark (chapter 256 = post Time-Skip, which I'll just use as the starting point for this arc)

since FF. Which started well past the 1/3rd mark

… lol wut http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Fairy_Tail_arc

The arc was only 1/5 to 1/4 of the show. I think you confused Fighting Festival for Grand Magic games bud.

@HeartOfDarkness:

I read plenty of garbage stuff to understand what makes something objectively bad and/appreciate the works that are crafted well with techniques, and author-input. Same thing with people who like analyzing The Room, and understanding why certain movies can objectively be shit.

And no, I didn't have any real expectations of it. It fails on the very basic element of telling a story using drawings. Most people aren't going to talk about it because most people don't really care, or even know what FT fundamentally gets wrong.

FT is fundamentally shit. There is not a single thing it does right. People just have low-expectations, and will let some of the most basic stuff, that FT gets wrong in every way possible, slide.

I kind of agree.

Even though most people recognize its flaws, it still of stuns me when people say it was good until the timeskip. Like… really? Fairy Tail was never really good at its best, only intriguing. I don't know how people really read through it without having to consciously let everything slide. I guess it's the Superhero movie syndrome, where the design/"flavor" makes it easier to forgive any shortcomings.

Natsu as a character was intriguing in the first chapter, but then he quickly devolved pretty much when Erza came into the show (Natsu became a shonen protaganist robot).

The series still had potential, but started to show really serious cracks in Phantom Lord. Tower of Heaven was good (in comparison, that is), then the show became full fledged shit afterwards.

So you're looking at a series that was 90% pure shit, and 10% not shit (with most of that 10% in the beginning, the rest sprinkled throughout). But it was never fully good for any meaningfully sustained period of time.

Why shonen series so against showing romance?

They tits, blood, punches, etc. but having the main character kiss his girl is off limits?

Bleach was actually a really good show at one point though… Reread the first 20 or so volumes. It was bad from Hueco Mundo onward, but it was at least good for like 1/3rd of its run.

Fairy Tail? I knew it was shit since Fighting Festival. Tower of Heaven was the last good arc the series had.

@ARTEMlS:

Hmm, I wonder how good would Bleach be, if I'd cut it at the right moment. So would Bleach actually be a genuinely great read if I'd strictly stop at chapter 181? Or would there be too much loose ends nevertheless?

The Aizen issue is the only problem. It's a loose end.

The character development of Ichigo and the rest, the character arsc, and the sense of closure helped make the first 181 chapters feel like an actual story. There's a 'reason' or 'purpose' to it. It's great.

As where the rest of the series kinda sucks.