One Piece Chapter 742 - I'll always be close to you
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Oda build is all up that he made Usopp full of fear an despair, he build him up, only to let him shine with courage. He has shown that he can overcome his cowardice and you still hate on him.
So since it's executed well and he does it in a believable and creative manner, you should have no ill feeling against this scene, right?
I don't think it was executed well at all.
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why robin doesn't kill everybody by just creating a couple of fingers inside their throats and choking them to death?
Yeah…this is the kind of stuff that people get annoyed about for some reason.
They need to stop overthinking an epic adventure story following a rubber boy seeking to become head pirate cause it'll be awesome.
Honestly.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
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@MDL:
Seeing how Kyros feels ashamed to even touch Scarlet, imagine how the sexual intercourse between those two went down.
Scarlet: "What's wrong?"
Kyros: "I…JUST.....I LITERALLY CANT DO IT, THERE IS A FORCE FIELD OF PURITY BETWEEN YOUR LEGS! OH RIKU, GUIDE MY BLUNT SWORD!"You know, if this weren't One Piece, it would be my first question, lol. But that's the same with Dragon Ball and how the most innocent being on the universe (Goku) had 2 kids. You just roll with it!
On the other hand, was this the FIRST on screen "romance" in One Piece? I don't mean couple, I mean the process itself of two people turning into a couple. As short as it was, this is the very first time, right?
@Panda:
See, this strikes me as being a fundamental misunderstanding of the scene; opinion, of course, but there you have it. What's almost amusing to me, too, is the fact that I've seen this coming from people on both sides of the debate.
Simply put, Usopp didn't win because he was, as you put it, 'superhumanly ugly'. In fact, Usopp didn't win, period. He lost; he was completely and utterly defeated. tIf you want to refer to the situation as pure luck – which I would argue against, personally -- then at least recognize that what happened through luck would be the operation succeeding, not Usopp himself. That might seem like an unnecessarily fine, pointless distinction, but it's actually quite important for at least one reason: namely, this was in no way intended to be a moment for Usopp.
That said, I can understand, to an extent, simply being upset over that very fact. After all, here we had a perfect setup for Usopp to shine, and it was squandered. On the other paw, though, I would argue that Usopp already did have an amazing moment; regardless of how one feels about his cowardice and running away in the past chapters, I think it's hard to deny that his moment of returning and taking a stand was a great one. I suppose one might argue that it was derivative, or repetitive, that Usopp has already had precisely such moments before; then, though, that exact same argument would have to be applied to Usopp managing to attain victory against seemingly insurmountable odds, as many seem to wish had been what happened.
Actually, to me, that last point forms the very basis of what made the joke work. Admittedly, I do think, in this particular case, that the payoff would have worked much more if even just a page or two of Usopp fighting and being defeated had been shown. Under normal circumstances, I would be fine with cutting back to him already defeated, as short-hand for him having been completely and utterly outclassed. In this scenario, though, the joke depended on playing with our expectations, and so would have been well served by doing a little more to build those expectations up. Showing Usopp trying everything in his power, all to no avail; building the tension, knowing that everything rides on Usopp succeeding, and that thus he surely will; causing us to wonder what untold depths of will he would dip into, what clever trick he would pull; then, for the final, dramatic climax, having things end as they did. That, I feel, really would have made the moment shine.
Given that I feel it could have been executed better, though, I still feel like it worked well enough as it stands. Frankly, to me, a lot of the complaints about the scene seem to be that Oda turned what 'should have been' a dramatic moment into a gag, which I find a somewhat baffling stance to take, given that that irony is precisely the source of the humor in the first place.
What you say is true, and it's perfectly exposed. Still, that "flaw" that you see in the scene, to me, it's a pretty huge one. From many angles.
Not showing the fight Usopp went through after "maning up" robs us of a potentialy entertaing scene but it also robs us of some potential drama were Oda could've played with our expectations, the reader knowing deep down inside that it will end up fine, and then, blam, Usopp is defeated to the point of unconsciousness. From a narrative and tension building angle, Oda didn't win anything in the process by off-screening the whole struggle, quite the opposite.
As you put it, and it does seem like what people are having trouble dealing with, is the fact that Usopp was utterly defeated. And as you say, he didn't win by luck or by a gag; he lost. "But it could've been anyone else in his place and the result would've been the same!", yes, of course, because he lost. On that aspect, I think you just hit the nail on why the scene is so polarizing. But, to me, that "nuisance" that is Oda not showing the scene is actualy the biggest mistake of the scene, not what actually happened, which I've been okay since the beginning.
This is writing 101, "show, don't tell". Oda, lately, is "telling, not showing". This fight should've been a tension builder, so when the inevitable loss happens, the reader feels the despair of the situation. If you go from "fight starts!" to "other stuff!" and then "fight ends!", the tension and the drama is totally diminished and the reader doesn't feel the same impact he would've felt if shown the whole (or a big chunk) of the struggle. We saw the toys and the dwarves cheering for Usopp, but we didn't have any chance to do so, and we should, cause we're the audience this story is directed at. To me, that was one of the biggest mistakes Oda has made till now, and one of the biggest dangers of the sped-up pace and the off-paneled conflicts happening in order for Oda to be able to put as much stuff in his manga as possible.
At the same time, I DO actually appreciate what he's trying to do: he's trying to give us as much stuff happening as possible. Problem, as been said a gazillion times, is that by not dwelving deeper into each and every one or these scenarios taking place at the same time, they lose relevance and dramatic impact. So, by trying to give "more" to the readers, he's, in the end, giving them "less". The intentions are good, I'm sure of it, but the result is harmed during the process.
Now, if the climax delivers, people will probably be much more forgiving with this issues. If this keeps up, people will start to be more and more disappointed that a great story with great characters and lots of potential is not being used to its fullest. As many have said before me, it feels like current One Piece is "good", no doubt about it, but it shouldn't be "good", it should be "excellent", something it has been in the past and that Oda is fully capable of doing.
@.access:
Genuine curiosity: what is the problem with that scene?
Well, that scene is kinda hilarious when you see Kizaru's incredibly good sniping skills (sniping a tiny key from such a distance? impressive!) that could've been put to a better use by, you know, sniping Luffy on the head.
Of course, this is One Piece (no one gets killed ever), and this is Luffy (main protagonist), so Oda chose the hilarious route.
Marineford is weird in that it's probably one of the most exhilarating arcs, with probably the best art and some of the most impressive set pieces ever, and yet it has some of the most hilarious writing decisions on Oda's part. Still totally love the arc, regardless.
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@O:
thanks to your big text I look smart, I didn't read it all but I copy and paste it on an other one piece forum about OP / keep on writting please!
Always glad to help the intellectually challenged. Hope you can keep looking smart on other "one piece forums about OP".
Is that like… a forum with only one section?
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@Panda:
Yes we do, we just aren't explicitly shown Diamante himself. Compare the middle-left panel from the page Ram linked to the middle-right panel from the one you linked, and notice that they effectively precisely the same. Given that the latter was from when he was fighting off Diamante, it's clear that the former is as well. They even share the line of him calling for them to run away, although the translation is slightly different, which I suppose might make that less obvious.
I think you're right. I guess I overlooked it
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What if toys don't return to their human form?? Soldier-san said he wasn't sure what could happen if they nock out Sugar, soo this auto-nock out could just be a big trolling from Oda Sensei and nothing is gonna happen :S
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What if toys don't return to their human form?? Soldier-san said he wasn't sure what could happen if they nock out Sugar, soo this auto-nock out could just be a big trolling from Oda Sensei and nothing is gonna happen :S
It happened with vander Decken, so why wouldn't it happen with Sugar as well?
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Yeah…this is the kind of stuff that people get annoyed about for some reason.
They need to stop overthinking an epic adventure story following a rubber boy seeking to become head pirate cause it'll be awesome.
Honestly.
It's a bit of a common trend in the forums where people tend to merge the story with their daily lives and try to make sense of simple/silly things. I reckon the credit has to go to Oda though for being able to drag them into that state with a black ink and paper.
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What if toys don't return to their human form?? Soldier-san said he wasn't sure what could happen if they nock out Sugar, soo this auto-nock out could just be a big trolling from Oda Sensei and nothing is gonna happen :S
No, soldier-san wasn't sure what will happen when all toys become humans.
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During comedic moments in the series, not mediocre storytelling asspulls from the author. I got Fairy Tail vibes looking at the last panel in terms of how the story went in that convenient and clusterfuck of a direction.
The difference is that in this case is just an exaggeration of real life when in Fairy Tail is totally Bullshit even for Supernatural Battle manga.
People get disappointing because the scene was funny, but the thing is that the base of it has nothing to do with that.
Enel face, did people complained that in a serious moment, where the villain, discovers that his unbeatable powers until that moment, don't do nothing to the main character. Notice that similar moments happen in real life and aren't funny at all.
Luffy face, did people complained that in a serious moment, where Luffy finally discovered that his long lost brother was indeed alive.
Notice that similar moments to this happen in real life as well and aren't funny at all.
Ussop and Sugar faces, people are complaining that it was played for laughs, but something like that happen in real life, when normally it doesn't happen because of spicy things(normally is because of more serious things, like heart attack or fainting, or somebody making a joke and trying to scare), but sometimes it happen because of that(I already seen something similar happening. Somebody eating something that he didn't knew it was spicy(I even see about salty, sweet, …) and his reaction scares everybody close to him). Now when something scares you suddenly your body gets stress out in such a degree that heartbeat, blood flow, adrenaline levels in the blood and breath, all become abnormal in a to short period of time. Normally, this have no real impact to a person, only a little stress at the time, but a frail person(or a person that for some reason his internal system is frail at that time) can even pass out with that. Now think that in One Piece, with a Special Grape, the Tatabasco, and that it scares a kid. With that is easy to see that is anything but Bullshit, and that those situations being used as a joke(That in real life and normally in other manga aren't used) is something that Oda have been doing, note that at least 3 times in these arc serious moments were used as a joke using that face(Ussop when he knew the plan of the dwarfs; Robin, Franky and Ussop When they discovered that is their fault that the dwarfs going to war against Doflamingo; When Luffy found out about Sabo). -
It seems Doflamingo doesn't posses Observation Haki, since Luffy it's been hidden in the same room forever and he haven't notice…yet.
Some day… Someone will appear carrying the history of all those decades on his back, and challenge this whole world to a fight...
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He needs to activate it and be conscious about what he is looking for. That was explained by Enel!
Dude ive bee seeing this argument a few times, but look, his castle has been invaded, he should have his sensing ''active'' at least a little bit… I really think he should of noticed that luffy is right around the corner. If you think of luffy zoro and sanji sensing caribou in FI, it counters perfectly your argument of needing to be conscious of what you are looking for. Luffy was in a party eaten meat and he felt caribou. So again, imo doflamingo should of noticed luffy's presence.
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He needs to activate it and be conscious about what he is looking for. That was explained by Enel!
Even doe, he is in war right now, at least once every some time he would have to activate it.
Some day… Someone will appear carrying the history of all those decades on his back, and challenge this whole world to a fight...
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It's ridiculous to say that this was good cause it was unpredictable. Unpredictability is not good storytelling. Otherwise M. Night Shyamalan would be considered a good director
However, in terms of comedy writing no one likes seeing the punchline or gag payoff from a mile away. Even in dramatic storytelling, predictability can come across as bland and cliche. Although I think with the example provided, I think you were saying "predictability for the sake of predictability" which I agree in therms of drama is pretty hackish, especially if its overused or has no creative weight behind it.
That said I do agree that this particular moment is pretty awkward in terms of how things were set-up post timeskip. There, it seemed there was going to be an honest effort in depicting a more serious, battle-ready Usopp, and for the most part FI reinforced that image. Even Punk Hazard provided Usopp with some backbone in at least trying to fight Caesar Clown and getting taken out with some dignity, not to mention the very funny scene where he fought Brownbeard's group for their clothes (along with Robin, Zoro, & Luffy) capping it off with a more coyingly demeaning yet humorously satisfying finishing off of Buffalo.
In Dressrosa, it seems like Oda really wants to bring the character back to his pre-timeskip roots with Punk Hazard somewhat showing signs of this intent. Yet I don't think the average readership is totally on board with it. It's like he wanted to bring back Skypiea Usopp, who no one could really take seriously as a fighter and of which his fights consisted of two absolute gag encounters which he clearly didn't win let alone was any help at all: Satori and Enel. And both those fights had sequences similar to this Sugar sequence in terms of absolutely deflating any buildup of Usopp heroics for the sake of laughs–Usopp dangling helplessly from his belt rope and that scene where Usopp does some sort of dramatic leap on the Maxim only to crash and crumple like a rag doll. Honestly I found them hilarious moments despite them clearly being demeaning to the character and providing "no character growth".
But at that time I don't think anyone really took Usopp all that seriously as a fighter since the Arlong arc of which his only serious moment was fighting second stringers like a mole lady hauling around Baby Huey with a baseball bat. Otherwise he was almost entirely comic relief until that whole Water 7 thing happen and forced most of the readership to think about the character and his role as a Strawhat more seriously. From then on he actually did seem to get progressively more serious in his moments and pulling his weight as a Strawhat along side of the comic moments we all know and expect from the character.
So yeah, it definitely seems we're back to Usopp as mostly if not entirely a comic relief character now which is why it comes to no surprise to how polarizing the whole situation is now.
One thing the generally bugs me more about the character are those damned Pop Greens. It's like going from the sillier equivalent of Batman's utility belt to Felix the Cat's magic bag. And I wouldn't even mind the magic bag aspect if it was more clever or creative but they really haven't been, pulling these things out of nowhere yet mostly making them semi-realistic plants (with he exception of that wolf thing in FI). Ho-hum. Now that new seemingly living Kabuto he used on Buffalo? That I like and hope to see more of.
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Wow, I cannot believe Usopp did not beat the 10-year-old girl to a bloody pulp like I was promised, but instead took her out in a unique and Usopp-ish way. So disappointing. I am swearing off One Piece forever, I'm gonna get rid'a all my One Piece stuff!
Also Eiichiro "I don't write romance" Oda my butt, that was the greatest love story ever told.
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dont know if somebody allready found this: (second one is from rebeccas flashback in 721)
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dont know if somebody allready found this: (second one is from rebeccas flashback in 721)
That was Rebecca's flashback. It would make sense that she doesn't remember her dad.
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dont know if somebody allready found this: (second one is from rebeccas flashback in 721)
http://i58.tinypic.com/34g95pv.pngIt's nice to see those back-to-back. Thanks!
Since the more recent one is lower quality, it is hard for me to tell, but did Oda draw Kyros's flashback in a grittier style? More dark outlines?
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That was Rebecca's flashback. It would make sense that she doesn't remember her dad.
of course it does.
just that its the exact same panel is really nice
even the sound effects are the same^^
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Even doe, he is in war right now, at least once every some time he would have to activate it.
At first it was his confidence and arrogance stopping him from doing that, not it's his mind running through all possibilities, making him think about all else but awaiting to meet Luffy right outside his room. Probably.
That was Rebecca's flashback. It would make sense that she doesn't remember her dad.
Makes it more sad when rereading the chapters in the volume. :(
It's nice to see those back-to-back. Thanks!
Since the more recent one is lower quality, it is hard for me to tell, but did Oda draw Kyros's flashback in a grittier style? More dark outlines?
Don't think so, but it shows that he (or his assistent) had redrawn the page instead of copy pasting Kyros into it, like some other mangaka might have chosen to do.
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I don't think it was executed well at all.
Right. Again I refer perona's fight, it had humor, it had luck, but it also allowed ussop to get beyond sogeking and slowly allow his brave side to come through. It had humor as he was fighting the bear and perona and he beat her in a classic ussop way. This "fight" or "victory," just the enemy pretty much knocking herself out.
I'm a big fan of ussop and some of the snide comments from users on here are a little stupid. It's like they hold it against other for having an opinion forgetting that this is a forum….where people are allowed to comment.
edit: the only reason why I'm not as disappointed and actually "meh" about the "victory" is the fact that Ussop will get a bunch of followers/acclaim via something so stupid which is kind of funny.
Makes it more sad when rereading the chapters in the volume. :(
I said it from day 1 when we found out about the memory portion of Sugar's df, it's a pretty evil/heartless DF and makes DD even more of an evil than any villains. Scarlett forgot kyros as she lay there dying, not knowing of the small comfort that man she loved most in the world was right beside her.
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considering the actual plan to beat sugar was pretty much a gag (a really spicy grape) I don't see how so many people can complain about the way this ended. Usopp was up against a guy on the same level as vergo. Clearly a logia with incredible speed and strength. Like how did you think it was going to do down. Im glad Oda just didn't do the obvious thing was Usopp trying to shoot the grape into Sugar's mouth. That probably wouldn't have worked anyway but still he let Usopp win in his own Usoppy way that completely fits the manga.
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Dude ive bee seeing this argument a few times, but look, his castle has been invaded, he should have his sensing ''active'' at least a little bit… I really think he should of noticed that luffy is right around the corner. If you think of luffy zoro and sanji sensing caribou in FI, it counters perfectly your argument of needing to be conscious of what you are looking for. Luffy was in a party eaten meat and he felt caribou. So again, imo doflamingo should of noticed luffy's presence.
Doflamingo is focused on other things at the moment. Makes sense to not activate it as he is concentrating something else.
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Scarlett forgot kyros as she lay there dying, not knowing of the small comfort that man she loved most in the world was right beside her.
You don't need to summarize the chapter.
Like how did you think it was going to do down.
People keep asking, complainers keep evading. Their execuse is that he should concentrate on Sugar or something or that it's about Usopp being an ass by running away for so long or not seeing the fight, not actually giving a clear answer to the question.
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Just to chime in there are two things people are forgetting about with this chapter.
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The reason why Toy Soldier never had a contract was explained. I remember people taking issue with that. Good job by Oda explaining that.
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People are forgetting the face Sugar had when Trebol was fucking up the dwarves. People need to realize that her power isn't based in killing people, she turns them into toys! She's a little girl who has Trebol do all the dirty work for her. That panel of her very tentative face when Trebol was being a total jerk was a perfect example of how killing does not come natural to her. It could even be thought that Usopp was the first person she's ever tried to 'kill.' I think this aspect really adds to why she was so freaked out by Usopp's face.
P.S. That face was one of the funniest moments in one piece for me. That whole scenario was ridiculous and I loved how Oda ended it. Dwarves who'll believe anything. A creepy logia who presumably has the mucus mucus fruit. A little girl who is the key to running a slave factory with toys as the main workers. It's so serious…yet so f'ing hilarious!
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I'm still surprised that people expected Usopp to actually win. He came back because he wanted the Tontatta to know that he lied to them and that them staying behind to fight because "Usoland would save the day" would be fruitless because, as Usopp put it, he's not someone who should be looked up to. He didn't go back because he realized that he stood a chance against Trebol and Sugar. In fact, he knew when going back that he would get his ass kicked to a bloody pulp, but he came back regardless because the Tontatta had an unbelievable amount of faith in him despite how he was obviously leading them astray.
To put it simply, Usopp lost. Hardcore. He gave it his all but Trebol obviously was his superior. The "victory" that he had was indeed lucky, but at the same time, luck and willpower are basically the only things that have kept him alive for this long in the first place. This is really nothing new for the character at all, and it's certainly not a step backwards. I feel like people still aren't letting go of the fact that he tried to run away despite the fact that, in the end, he didn't. I guess the ending to Chapter 740 probably soured some people's opinions on Usopp forever, even though at this point we have clearly moved on from that.
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People keep asking, complainers keep evading. Their execuse is that he should concentrate on Sugar or something or that it's about Usopp being an ass by running away for so long or not seeing the fight, not actually giving a clear answer to the question.
P. Bear isn't even one of the complainers, but even he presented a good argument for how it could have been done better.
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See, none of the complainer do, but others have to.
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Dude ive bee seeing this argument a few times, but look, his castle has been invaded, he should have his sensing ''active'' at least a little bit… I really think he should of noticed that luffy is right around the corner. If you think of luffy zoro and sanji sensing caribou in FI, it counters perfectly your argument of needing to be conscious of what you are looking for. Luffy was in a party eaten meat and he felt caribou. So again, imo doflamingo should of noticed luffy's presence.
He do have to activate it. You talk about Caribou, but than what about Sanji with Caesar Clown underlings when they attacked the sunny?
I'm not even saying that Doflamingo has or not Observation Haki, but only that we don't really know and saying that he isn't found Luffy yet, isn't a manner to see if he have it or not.
Note that while Dofla is being attacked, he is in the top of the building(In a save place) listening to what is underling are reporting.
There are to many parameters to discern if he has or not. There are different levels of skills(people that are good in a large area, people that are good in a close area. The gradient of information that a person can take throughout the area of observation. The effort needed to observe. What kind of information that you can see with your haki). We only know is that Enel would have is ability mixed with Observation activated all the time, giving him the ability to hear everything in the area. When he heard someone he would need to focus his observation to know more information about the target. Aisa seems to be able to discern where things are and if they are alive or dead(knock out) but she couldn't discern what it was(We don't know if she needed to activate it or if for her it was always active). The priests only could observe the target they knew the position(When they didn't knew where Enel was they didn't noticed that he was behind them at all) and it seems for them any kind of distraction was able to dispel their observation. Koby at least when he learned it, was all over Marineford and he could feel people die(I would say that his was similar to Aisa, that was a natural too). Rayleigh the master in Haki, could know the skills of all the animals in an entire island, it didn't seemed that he needed to much effort to control the observation. Luffy, Zoro and Sanji seems to be casual, where they sometimes don't have it "active" and other times they have. Doflamingo we don't know at all. I would say that the way he evade attacks is observation just because he doesn't even look at the enemies and evades them without effort(Ex: With Baby 5, he was at the phone and he didn't looked at her, but he evaded everything. With Sanji he flipped his body and put his cloak in front of him and he still avoided damage, with Law he evaded him without any effort). Now it could be that Doflamingo has some insane reflexes and evasion skills, or that he has observation haki. If he has it, probably he is a master only with it directed directly at someone, and is only useful to direct fights. -
See, none of the complainer do, but others have to.
I think you're being rather dismissive of other peoples' opinions/claims. Some people who don't like it have made some really good posts about it. Please stop jumping to offensive conclusions and then broadcasting them for all to see.
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I think you're being rather dismissive of other peoples' opinions/claims. Some people who don't like it have made some really good posts about it. Please stop jumping to offensive conclusions and then broadcasting them for all to see.
You make a solid point. This is a really devise chapter but people just need to get something out of every opinion.
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Unsure if this comparison has been made yet, but I was thinking about the "luck" aspect of SOP's success and it reminded me a lot of the Edd War, where the man who would later become the pirate king was vastly outnumbered by Shiki's fleet, fought anyways, and was able to survive and continue on his journey thanks to a freak storm. Obviously this does not mean that I am suggesting that Usopp is something like Roger, but rather, that the Pirate King himself (and now Luffy) tends to benefit from quite a bit of luck, which might give more credibility to Sugar's defeat.
Edit: In fact, Shiki reminds me so much of Doflamingo– from his long timeframe plots, smart planning, and use of science. -
CoC, that's what it was.
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@Da:
God, to those ranting about that last page, take note:
Sugar thought the ball was poison. She had no idea it's just super spicy. She didn't expect, as much as we did, that Usopp will react like that. Sugar's reaction is spot on and natural, considering how she hated gross things. I don't see how we should be disappointed in that, it's not as if it's an asspull or what. Oda chose that path and I must say I enjoyed it.
It wasn't an asspull. It's just sad that Usopp didn't really contribute to his win. Anybody could have defeated Sugar like that. You mention that Sugar thought the grape was poison. What if Usopp had begged her not to use the poison on him? A little bit of a reach for him to think that might actually work out but I would have enjoyed it a lot.
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Ussop attacks, trebol recovers.
Trebol attacks ussop.
He does the "tears from the eyes"-funny face while running for cover.Ussop internal dialogue "oh crap crap crap".
Trebol: [some mocking comment making fun of how weak he is]
Cut to people cheering him on (toys and crew mate), as a pan out view shows the shipyard slowly getting destroyed by Trebol attacking him and ussop avoiding (b/c you know he's good at dodging)
Cuts back to him getting his ass owned with some scraps of stuff being thrown at him, so ussop slowly gets wounded (showing it isn't an easy fight).
Internal dialogue: "I should've ran, oh well, I'm going to die might as well take sugar down while I'm at it. (or something like that)."
Ussop tries attacking again and does his "watch out or my 3422349 thousand followers will get you…etc." thing, another ship throw right at him, and another hilarious One Piece ::gulp:: scared face.Eventually battle takes him to where the other enslaved dwarves are, and he sees how badly they are treated, Trebol taunts him more and more. Ussop snaps, he uses a barrage of attacks to distract Trebol, while laying down some traps without Trebol noticing (over confidence of a logia who just takes the attack and gets cut up again instead of avoiding the attack), and then smoke screen They can't see anything else besides maybe a meter or two in front of them, as sugar is walking around, anticipating an attack she gets tangled in a plant (trap laid by ussop earlier) and can't move. Ussop by this point would've snuck right by her and attacks her with his 1000000 ton hammer, she opens her mouth in shock at which point he throws the chilli grape into her mouth and she does the funny fire breath and passes out....
^ that is how i imagined it going. A lot of "oh shit" funny face moments, more character growth and ussop winning without actually taking down Trebol.
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Alright, it seems the outcome (much like Usopp's cowardice these past couple of chapters) have split the forum down the middle. Half thinks it was funny, was logical in the wacky Oda sense, etc. and the other half thinks it was either random, and/or not funny, and/or they felt cheated out of development, etc. Correct?
Allow me to elaborate my thoughts from my first post of the thread:
[hide]To be honest, when this whole SOP thing started, and I saw the Usopp/Robin teamup, I thought okay, this is awesome. Usopp and Robin are the two smartest members of the crew, no wonder why Law set it like this. Best of all, Robin can get a fight.
Then I saw Trebol and Sugar, an equally awesome teamup. Disgusting yet strong officer combined with little girl who can incapitate with a single touch….and eats grapes. Usopp being Usopp, okay fine at least…..okaay, Robin's a toy now. Uhh.....okay, at least Usopp can....run away before coming back to be the hero.....and gets offscreened. All right, at least.....huh. It's over?
I was ready to accept just Usopp winning despite Robin being removed from the action, only I wanted more trickery/hit and run tactics like Choo or Perona. It's fine that Trebol was physically stronger, so was Mr. 5, Mr. 4, Merrychristmas, Luffy, etc…..Usopp's the guy that uses his brains and strategy to win, not his fists.Now luck does play its part. Wasn't it luck that Choo didn't check if Usopp was dead when he used Ketchup Star? Buut.....the outcome was just so random for me, I honestly felt confused. Shocking Sugar, I figured that'd come into play somehow. But.....I guess I was just expecting more of a battle, more wits, more of everything. Not just....that.
Now again, I've more time to digest the chapter, so maybe in a sense, it was funny??? It was totally unexpected, but it was also totally unexpected. Get me? In the end, I was disappointed (moreso that Robin turning into a toy wasn't worth the shift on just Usopp), but hey.....some of you guys arguing for it make earnest points.
tl;dr: I still liked the Kyros stuff despite its condensation.[/hide]
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Ussop attacks, trebol recovers.
Trebol attacks ussop.
He does the "tears from the eyes"-funny face while running for cover.Ussop internal dialogue "oh crap crap crap".
Trebol: [some mocking comment making fun of how weak he is]
Cut to people cheering him on (toys and crew mate), as a pan out view shows the shipyard slowly getting destroyed by Trebol attacking him and ussop avoiding (b/c you know he's good at dodging)
Cuts back to him getting his ass owned with some scraps of stuff being thrown at him, so ussop slowly gets wounded (showing it isn't an easy fight).
Internal dialogue: "I should've ran, oh well, I'm going to die might as well take sugar down while I'm at it. (or something like that)."
Ussop tries attacking again and does his "watch out or my 3422349 thousand followers will get you…etc." thing, another ship throw right at him, and another hilarious One Piece ::gulp:: scared face.Eventually battle takes him to where the other enslaved dwarves are, and he sees how badly they are treated, Trebol taunts him more and more. Ussop snaps, he uses a barrage of attacks to distract Trebol, while laying down some traps without Trebol noticing (over confidence of a logia who just takes the attack and gets cut up again instead of avoiding the attack), and then smoke screen They can't see anything else besides maybe a meter or two in front of them, as sugar is walking around, anticipating an attack she gets tangled in a plant (trap laid by ussop earlier) and can't move. Ussop by this point would've snuck right by her and attacks her with his 1000000 ton hammer, she opens her mouth in shock at which point he throws the chilli grape into her mouth and she does the funny fire breath and passes out….
^ that is how i imagined it going. A lot of "oh shit" funny face moments, more character growth and ussop winning without actually taking down Trebol.
@bolded - It's like you're TRYING your hardest to kill Usopp's character growth… dude, do me a favor and look up the difference of courage and bravery PLEASE.
Also, the fight was off-paneled, why are people complaining or making their own scenario about something we didn't even see!? Da hell.
See here, this is your last post.. I know it's your opinion but my point stands, it's like you just wanna kill his character growth…
Right. Again I refer perona's fight, it had humor, it had luck, but it also allowed ussop to get beyond sogeking and slowly allow his brave side to come through. It had humor as he was fighting the bear and perona and he beat her in a classic ussop way. This "fight" or "victory," just the enemy pretty much knocking herself out.
I'm a big fan of ussop and some of the snide comments from users on here are a little stupid. It's like they hold it against other for having an opinion forgetting that this is a forum….where people are allowed to comment.
edit: the only reason why I'm not as disappointed and actually "meh" about the "victory" is the fact that Ussop will get a bunch of followers/acclaim via something so stupid which is kind of funny.
Usopp thought he was gonna have backup fighting Perona's zombies, he also thought he was just gonna be fighting only the girl with a DF whose only ability he thought couldn't affect him. If you wanna call that bravery, then please compare it to standing up to two executives: one that can easily turn you into a toy and the other already showing his marksmanship and strength. You also compared a zombie bear that can be outran and be defeated by SALT to an executive that can throw a ship and is quick enough to chase someone from a distance with an ability that can easily restrain you. Okay.
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CoC, that's what it was.
I am honestly really inclined to believe that this might be the case. I think all of the main cast are going to develop haki as the series progresses.
Thinking back on how Coby developed Haki: The most traumatic experience for him during the Marineford battle was probably when he realized the deaths of all of his fellow marines and Akainu was about to magma fist him to death. This was also when Coby was at his most sincere, he was standing up for his own beliefs and for the lives of his comrades. Coby started developing Haki because of this experience.
Isn't Usopp's experience here pretty similar? I mean, he is experiencing near-death, immediately after standing up for himself in a way that we've never seen before.
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I am honestly really inclined to believe that this might be the case. I think all of the main cast are going to develop haki as the series progresses.
Thinking back on how Coby developed Haki: The most traumatic experience for him during the Marineford battle was probably when he realized the deaths of all of his fellow marines and Akainu was about to magma fist him to death. This was also when Coby was at his most sincere, he was standing up for his own beliefs and for the lives of his comrades. Coby started developing Haki because of this experience.
Isn't Usopp's experience here pretty similar? I mean, he is experiencing near-death, immediately after standing up for himself in a way that we've never seen before.
Yeahh… And Usopp is so amazing that he can use CoC while unconscious, isn't it awesome?
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Yeahh… And Usopp is so amazing that he can use CoC while unconscious, isn't it awesome?
Can a person scream while unconscious? And I mean knocked out. Not like sleep talking.
It's like the secret to CoC is just to make a scary face. It's intimidating, right?
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I think were I take issue, at least somewhat, is that it seems to me that a number of people are simply calling the scene poorly done (horribly written, a travesty that marks the downfall of One Piece, pick your level of hyperbole as you wish) as a sort of reflexive lashing out in their disappointment.
The disappointment itself, mind, is completely valid, and I find it ridiculous that anyone would imply otherwise. Usopp has, in my opinion, some of the greatest in-fight moments in the series, due to how badly the odds are inevitably stacked against him. Of course people would look forward to more such scenes, and this situation absolutely had the potential to go that way. In fact, I would very much argue that we were meant to expect it would, as subverting that, as I mentioned before, is the very basis for the joke we ended up with. When looked at that way, though, I suppose it does bring to light what is no doubt a sore point for many people: the joke was quite literally, or at the very least effectively, at the expense of those who wanted to have a serious, dramatic, emotional Usopp moment. For good or for ill, many people find it difficult to appreciate a joke when it is at their own expense, and I legitimately believe we're seeing quite a bit of that in people's reactions to the scene.
At any rate, the disappointment is certainly valid. Beyond that, I could even see people sincerely arguing that the scene was bad; I myself gave reasoning for why I felt it could have been done better, and while I personally wouldn't say it was bad as is, everyone has their own standards. Again, though, what gets to me are the occasions when it very much comes across that someone is accusing the scene of being poorly done, without really thinking of any valid, narrative arguments for why that is the case, but simply due to how upset and disappointed they were by not getting what they had hoped for.
In short, disappointment with how a situation was resolved, as compared to a resolution actually being poorly done, are two separate issues; while this particular case could arguably be accused of either, or both, I feel like at least some people are allowing that line between the two concepts to become blurred.
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Can a person scream while unconscious? And I mean knocked out. Not like sleep talking.
I don't know, but seems like Usopp can.
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Usopp's about to lead an army of dwarves and angry pirates.
Plus, we found out that Bartolomeo's shield, has a weakness. It can't stop verbal assaults. -
madriano, your signature makes you look like such a loser.
that joke is so overdone.
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madriano, your signature makes you look like such a loser.
that joke is so overdone.
But it's soooo funny.
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@bolded - It's like you're TRYING your hardest to kill Usopp's character growth… Usopp thought he was gonna have backup fighting Perona's zombies, he also thought he was just gonna be fighting only the girl with a DF whose only ability he thought couldn't affect him.
Dude do us a favor and stop with the condescension. We have different idea of what character growth is. With perona's fight he slowly allowed his brave side to come through from when things turned against him and he stood back up…so yeah. Okay cool. I'm not going to argue this with someone going around saying, "please look up blahblahblah." It gets tiring.
This topic's been talked to death now and I was only presenting an alternative possibility, something some people on here said that we didn't have in mind.
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I think Panda Bear's post summed things up really nicely. It's understandable that some people were disappointed with the outcome of this battle and would've preferred to see something else. At the same time I think it's important to realize something that most likely everyone, regardless of what one may think about this chapter's ending, will agree upon:
Usopp's fight was done off panel because, quite frankly, it was made obvious in the past few chapters that Trebol was going to overwhelm him, and despite the fact that he went all out guns-a-blazin', it was pretty much guaranteed that he'd get his ass kicked. Even if we saw Usopp's fight, the overall outcome would've been exactly the same, which is why Oda didn't show it. And from there I think is where the divisiveness of opinions starts to happen. The side that is displeased with this outcome probably feels like Usopp still needs to do more to redeem himself in some way, and that the lack of footage during this battle combined with the comedic moment at the end didn't suffice. And at that point there's not really a way to argue any further aside from saying "I disagree".
For me, I think one of the key things that makes me like this ending is the fact that shit is about to break loose hardcore, and the way in which the story made this transition by having Usopp and Sugar performing two incredibly detailed shocked faces was really, really funny.
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I]And at that point there's not really a way to argue any further aside from saying "I disagree".
For me, I think one of the key things that makes me like this ending is the fact that shit is about to break loose hardcore, and the way in which it transitioned through two incredibly detailed shocked faces was really, really funny.
I agree with that assessment, my problem is the general tone of the forum now is putting down us "whiners" ignoring that it is still a forum. I'm actually surprised how fast it moved, I think part of the reason why Oda skipped the fight is that he wanted the plot to move forward faster. My prediction was that it would be the end of the next chapter that sugar faints.
