@Monkey:
Uh, he did though.
No, he already knew Shanks. And had pretty much already been inspired to some degree. And stabbed his face. Or something.
Yeah how dare I criticize it with the only thing it has supporting it lol.
Yeah pretty much that. There's so much wrong with it … just not the one thing you said.
No, he already knew Shanks. And had pretty much already been inspired to some degree. And stabbed his face. Or something.
So…your going for the point missing technical definition.
The POINT is Shanks is the inciting character with the important relationship with our lead.
Coby is not.
Luffy didn't first meet Shanks at the start of the manga.
Luffy did however first meet Koby in the second chapter, which is more or less the start of the series and certainly the start of the adventure.
So the idea of 'wrapping' the story with the meeting of Luffy and Koby as nobodies at the start and with their clash at the end superficially makes sense.
Of all the reasons to criticise that idea with, that superficial imagery/over-arc is pretty much the worst.
The series start when Luffy first time saying he want to be a pirate king
He meet coby in the middle of his adventure…
whatever bla bla bla bla
I like the idea of one piece ending with a luffy vs Coby fight
I see an older Luffy handing his hat over to Makino's kid as the ending to the series.
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Its obvious that it will be the gorosei.
The Elder Stars are Dragon's target; more likely to fall during the war and fallout from One Piece being found.
Blackbeard is the end-all foe for Luffy, this was made obvious when he more or less caused Ace's death.
@Cyan:
The Elder Stars are Dragon's target; more likely to fall during the war and fallout from One Piece being found.
Blackbeard is the end-all foe for Luffy, this was made obvious when he more or less caused Ace's death.
why would BB be the last foe? Will akainu fall before that battle?
Like i said before i'd be suprised if the elder stars and Luffy are ever in the same room
@wolfwoof:
Like i said before i'd be suprised if the elder stars and Luffy are ever in the same room
however I do see robin having a presence.
why would BB be the last foe? Will akainu fall before that battle?
It's been said many many times in this thread why BB makes the most sense by far as the final villain.
Akainu isn't even the running unless people really think Ace's death is the most important thing driving Luffy (it's not).
Akainu I can definitely see as second-to-last, Luffy's last big hurdle before the crew confronts the Blackbeards.
why would BB be the last foe? Will akainu fall before that battle?
Because BB is clearly developed AS the final foe. Clearly his set up as one of the most strongest characters in the OP verse, ideology, SH crew counter-part, and contribution to Ace's death should be a VERY obvious red flag that he's was being written in as the final enemy.
PS Akainu is NOT final enemy material. For a lazier story, Akainu works as the final villain but for OP…he's not.
Also that whole "Teach will probably kill Shanks at one point" thing.
however I do see robin having a presence.
I forsee them having some snail conversations at some point
That or bat letter buddies. Dear cursed child life in the ivory tower has been hectic lately, some douche broke in and rang our bell like a dozen times. Warmest regards that Beardy looking guy
I think there will be another time-skip towards the end and it will be at least a 5 year timeskip. Makes no sense for Luffy to finish his adventure after only 2 years plus he still needs a lot of training.
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I think there will be another time-skip towards the end and it will be at least a 5 year timeskip. Makes no sense for Luffy to finish his adventure after only 2 years plus he still needs a lot of training.
another time skip? Um..unless it is a time skip to the epilogue, I don't think so.
another time skip? Um..unless it is a time skip to the epilogue, I don't think so.
it could work dbz had like 4.
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Didn't the Roger pirates conquer the whole shebang in like three years?
Or am i not remembering things correctly?
Either way i'm skeptical about there being anymore time skips
it could work dbz had like 4.
It had 6.
Dragonball didn't have a continous quest storyline. It was workable and sensible there when every new storyline was a near completely different story.
One Piece has one big storyline, it would be awkward as fuck for any more timeskips. It's not happening aside from the way valliant described.
I view Black Beard as the biggest and baddest villian Luffy will face in the series but I can see his down fall happening before the final world war which will most likely be led by Akainu. The opposite is just as likely to me as well.
@wolfwoof:
I forsee them having some snail conversations at some point
That or bat letter buddies. Dear cursed child life in the ivory tower has been hectic lately, some douche broke in and rang our bell like a dozen times. Warmest regards that Beardy looking guy
haha pretty much this.
It makes me wonder just how much the gorosei have to do with everything robin is investigating. eg the void history, as well as hidden information that has impacted heavily on the world. I guess I'm saying that I'm interested in knowing who is pulling all the strings, and if it goes higher than them. It's just that I've always found it hard to believe they are capable of agreeing on everything. Realistically I would imagine them being like the congress to the president or parliament to the prime minister. I guess that is where the tenrybuto would have some kind of presence.
Rambling over…
As for luffy, pretty much what everyone has mentioned. Blackbeard is his biggest enemy put in the pipeline. Though I wouldn't say that would be the crews last battle. I think that comes down to me feeling that although beating Blackbeard would make him eligible for being the pirate king, it still doesn't fix everything. The government and marines have a big part to play, as well as luffy being able to set a new pirate era that will shape the world to the same if not a bigger degree than roger.
@Monkey:
It's been said many many times in this thread why BB makes the most sense by far as the final villain.
Akainu isn't even the running unless people really think Ace's death is the most important thing driving Luffy (it's not).
You believe that the One-Piece is the Rio Poneglyph, correct? If so then you have to accept one thing: the series cannot end with it being found. Still on board? Good. Because we know that once the true history is revealed it will cause chaos. We also know, from Oda himself, that the series is going to end with a War that will make the one at Marineford look tiny.
Thus, it's a rather safe bet to infer that on one side of this war will be Luffy and his allies, and on the other the World Government.
None of this should be any kind of leap.
Thus, why would it make sense for the 5 Elder Stars not to be leading the World Government? Thet're obviously in charge for a reason. THey didn't just assume to roles of 'secret-rulers-of-the-world.' If they are never to do anything besides talk in this series, Oda would not have introduced them.
Now, my other point, how, in this senario can Blackbeard be the final villain? What's most likely is that he and Luffy square off on Raftel. How does that not make the most sense? Who else is Luffy going to fight and beat to get the One-Piece? Kadiou and Big Mom are going to be dealt with before he gets there, Shanks doesn't want it. (Also, Shanks is totally not going to die before he and Luffy meet again–that would be dumb. I'm not saying he's not going to die.) So who's left? Kidd? None of the Supernovas are going to be it, that makes no sense. Besides, they'll all probably ally with Luffy in the end.
Luffy has to fight Blackbeard to become Pirate King. There is no alternative. He will not fight him after, and thus, he can't be the "final villain" of the series.
The war will most likely be a three-way between Luffy + allies and the Revs, the World Government + what's left of the marines (the Warlords will probably be long broken up by this point), and Blackbeard.
@Nex:
You believe that the One-Piece is the Rio Poneglyph, correct?
Yes, the Gorusei theory people are all basically running off an outdated form of my Poneglyph thread, and none of them have updated since roughly Thriller Barque ended. You're all still operating off a Water7/Enies Lobby mindset and it's really tired.
If so then you have to accept one thing: the series cannot end with it being found.
Like I said, you're all operating off my theory, it's really funny to talk to me like I don't know exactly what I predicted and where it leads.
What you SHOULD be thinking is if I'm not on board with your idea you must be late to some "new" information.
Still on board? Good. Because we know that once the true history is revealed it will cause chaos. We also know, from Oda himself, that the series is going to end with a War that will make the one at Marineford look tiny.
And what pray tell will that chaos involve Nex?
Why do the contents of the ancient history portent violence and danger?
Thus, it's a rather safe bet to infer that on one side of this war will be Luffy and his allies, and on the other the World Government.
None of this should be any kind of leap.
lol, I can't believe there's still people who think it will be that simplistic.
This was me six years ago!
You don't understand, it's not that I don't get where you Gorusei people are coming from. I know, I know better than you do. You're coming from over six years ago before Shabondy. But you've stuck unceasingly on the simplistic, almost boring, idea that it will be a revelation that we basically already know.
"Oh the government were jerks 800 years ago and lied about it."
Which for some reason will start a huge war on it's own. And it will just be a war against the government. And five old guys will fight nine to ten Strawhats or something.
Thus, why would it make sense for the 5 Elder Stars not to be leading the World Government?
What are you talking about now?
Thet're obviously in charge for a reason. THey didn't just assume to roles of 'secret-rulers-of-the-world.' If they are never to do anything besides talk in this series, Oda would not have introduced them.
They don't have to be the final villains to do more than talk Nex.
Now, my other point, how, in this senario can Blackbeard be the final villain? What's most likely is that he and Luffy square off on Raftel.
Nope.
How does that not make the most sense?
Because Blackbeard's ambition has never been stated to be achievement of Pirate King like Luffy's has. We've seen him doing two things. Enjoying and causing chaos and blatantly calling peace boring. And doing everything he can to collect more power.
Oh yeah, and be thematically set up as Luffy's antithesis and foreshadowed to come to blows with Shanks, the most important good guy character to Luffy thematicaly speaking.
Please explain to me how the Gorusei are thematically linked to Luffy. Thanks.
Who else is Luffy going to fight and beat to get the One-Piece?
Blackbeard. Because they aren't going to take him out on or before Raftel.
Kadiou and Big Mom are going to be dealt with before he gets there, Shanks doesn't want it. (Also, Shanks is totally not going to die before he and Luffy meet again–that would be dumb. I'm not saying he's not going to die.)
Who said Shanks would die before Luffy sees him again?
Luffy has to fight Blackbeard to become Pirate King. There is no alternative. He will not fight him after, and thus, he can't be the "final villain" of the series.
Hey remember when Gold Roger wiped out all opposition before becoming Pirate King? Oh yeah, that never happened. This isn't a tournament, something I thought you'd appreciate about it.
@Nex:
You believe that the One-Piece is the Rio Poneglyph, correct? If so then you have to accept one thing: the series cannot end with it being found. Still on board? Good. Because we know that once the true history is revealed it will cause chaos. We also know, from Oda himself, that the series is going to end with a War that will make the one at Marineford look tiny.
Has that really been confirmed? Seems like he'd be giving away alot of if he outright said that
@wolfwoof:
Has that really been confirmed? Seems like he'd be giving away alot of if he outright said that
He didn't say "war" specifically, but otherwise yeah
Figured as much. Didn't seem right for him to throw out exact plot points
"Oh the government were jerks 800 years ago and lied about it."
Which for some reason will start a huge war on it's own
That's an important point that a lot of people seem to miss. True History/One Piece will start a war and is the most dangerous thing to the gov't but why would a crew of hated, infamous pirates claiming that an ancient tablet, that only a member of their crew can read in the whole world, says the gov't were dicks 800+ years ago have an effect like that? It makes no sense and it's why there has to be a lot more to it.
I think it's more that there is material secrets on or around Raftel that are potentially dangerous. Or that the truth the history tells holds the key to unlocking such secrets global in scope. The reason the gov't are so scared of pirates and adamant to end the pirate era where everyone tries to get to Raftel, the reason Roger did what he did when he died, the reason Sengoku shit himself in rage when Whitebeard put everyone's eyes on One Piece again as he died come together much more coherently.
Referring to a few pages back, I really like the way you've outlined the good side of freedom/bad side of freedom/order at all costs/(ambiguous revolutionary?) themes in each corner in the endgame. Luffy, Blackbeard, WG, (Dragon?). It's probably too simplistic for Luffy to beat up the Dark Freedom guy and then just confront and defeat the bad eggs among the Order guys for a happy ending to all. There should be more of a physical confrontation with the negatives of total freedom. I always did figure Luffy would win over Teach, ultimately decide to let the world revolution happen (not-so-black-and-white decision Rayleigh talked about) and the confrontation with the WG ending in some kind of reform but Blackbeard having a more involved and important role in the whole thing, something less predictable than Raftel –> World War, comes off as sounding more likely and satisfying.
Finally as far as the goal of finding One Piece and who he will fight for it goes we've known since Sabaody that it in itself isn't really what Luffy wants. He wants to be the freest man but something can easily end up getting in the way of that outside of the first to OP/being called Pirate King race. On a somewhat related note I'm also not certain if we still understand Luffy to 100%. There a few pages in his flashback... here and here where Luffy says something that was kept hidden, not sure if it's just meant to be "gonna be the PK". Then later Dadan talks about what really killed Sabo and took his freedom away. I'm not necessarily saying that Luffy has a hidden motive "change the world" but we've seen that even Roger had something like that in mind when he went to sea. There could be more here that becomes relevant as we move into endgame and helps shape the setting there beyond the simple Raftel -> War scenario that most people seem to envision, so yeah, tangentially related to who fits as the FV.
Throwing the world into chaos seems more like a Blackbeard or Dragon type of move
@Monkey:
And what pray tell will that chaos involve Nex?
Why do the contents of the ancient history portent violence and danger?lol, I can't believe there's still people who think it will be that simplistic.
This was me six years ago!
You don't understand, it's not that I don't get where you Gorusei people are coming from. I know, I know better than you do. You're coming from over six years ago before Shabondy. But you've stuck unceasingly on the simplistic, almost boring, idea that it will be a revelation that we basically already know.
"Oh the government were jerks 800 years ago and lied about it."
Which for some reason will start a huge war on it's own. And it will just be a war against the government. And five old guys will fight nine to ten Strawhats or something.
But certainly, Dragon's struggle against the World Government will take centre stage at some point in the story - a mjor event in the story which will probably also involve the full telling of Kuma's story and such. But that whole event will derive a lot of its meaning from the origins of th two sides and the origins of the struggle which would involve a telling of the True History.
So a war against the WG will happen. It's not like Dragon's going to somehow be dissuaded. And it seems a sensible assumption that the SHs will be involved in that war. And it seems in turn reasonable that the SHs would be fighting against WG (not necessarily with the revolutionaries, but certainly against the WG).
So really, the piecing together of the Rio Poneglyph springboarding into a major war in which the SHs will face WG seems pretty likely.
Now granted I don't see in thsi kind of scenario the fight being necessarily even just a two-way conflict. And certainly, I don't see the Gorosei serving a combative antagonistic role.
But where does Blackbeard fit into all of this? Do you reject this war-following-true-history-revelation concept entirely? Do you accept it but not as the conclusive climax of the story? Do you think the Blackbeard Pirates will fit into this massive conflict as enemies of the SHs?
And a related question: where does Mihawk fit into all of this?
I do like the idea that Ancient Kingdom was just a fail villain and Robin just went crazy after gorosei's "see ??" or "i told you so" in their den den mushi conversation…
But certainly, Dragon's struggle against the World Government will take centre stage at some point in the story - a mjor event in the story which will probably also involve the full telling of Kuma's story and such. But that whole event will derive a lot of its meaning from the origins of th two sides and the origins of the struggle which would involve a telling of the True History.
So a war against the WG will happen. It's not like Dragon's going to somehow be dissuaded. And it seems a sensible assumption that the SHs will be involved in that war. And it seems in turn reasonable that the SHs would be fighting against WG (not necessarily with the revolutionaries, but certainly against the WG).
So really, the piecing together of the Rio Poneglyph springboarding into a major war in which the SHs will face WG seems pretty likely.
Now granted I don't see in thsi kind of scenario the fight being necessarily even just a two-way conflict. And certainly, I don't see the Gorosei serving a combative antagonistic role.
But where does Blackbeard fit into all of this? Do you reject this war-following-true-history-revelation concept entirely? Do you accept it but not as the conclusive climax of the story? Do you think the Blackbeard Pirates will fit into this massive conflict as enemies of the SHs?
And a related question: where does Mihawk fit into all of this?
Mihawk will get defeated by shiliew so that zoro can fight shiliew.
@Nex:
Now, my other point, how, in this senario can Blackbeard be the final villain? What's most likely is that he and Luffy square off on Raftel. How does that not make the most sense? Who else is Luffy going to fight and beat to get the One-Piece? Kadiou and Big Mom are going to be dealt with before he gets there, Shanks doesn't want it. (Also, Shanks is totally not going to die before he and Luffy meet again–that would be dumb. I'm not saying he's not going to die.) So who's left? Kidd? None of the Supernovas are going to be it, that makes no sense. Besides, they'll all probably ally with Luffy in the end.
Luffy has to fight Blackbeard to become Pirate King. There is no alternative. He will not fight him after, and thus, he can't be the "final villain" of the series.
Blackbeard is going to harness the One Piece, or whatever knowledge and power he attains at Raftel, BEFORE Luffy does.
That much has been obvious for a while now.
But certainly, Dragon's struggle against the World Government will take centre stage at some point in the story - a mjor event in the story which will probably also involve the full telling of Kuma's story and such. But that whole event will derive a lot of its meaning from the origins of th two sides and the origins of the struggle which would involve a telling of the True History.
So a war against the WG will happen. It's not like Dragon's going to somehow be dissuaded. And it seems a sensible assumption that the SHs will be involved in that war. And it seems in turn reasonable that the SHs would be fighting against WG (not necessarily with the revolutionaries, but certainly against the WG).
So really, the piecing together of the Rio Poneglyph springboarding into a major war in which the SHs will face WG seems pretty likely.
Now granted I don't see in thsi kind of scenario the fight being necessarily even just a two-way conflict. And certainly, I don't see the Gorosei serving a combative antagonistic role.
But where does Blackbeard fit into all of this? Do you reject this war-following-true-history-revelation concept entirely? Do you accept it but not as the conclusive climax of the story? Do you think the Blackbeard Pirates will fit into this massive conflict as enemies of the SHs?
And a related question: where does Mihawk fit into all of this?
Yes exactly, the Blackbeard's will fit directly into the ancient storyline.
He's an evil D, and as people have been saying, there are dangerous things that will be involved in what's been locked away.
The Government is a villain with good intentions at least to some extent, if they know what they know? And are totally evil? They would have dug up and used the weapons by now, if not ruled off their power. Like Spandam had in mind.
Those dangerous things are part of whatever good things the government has also denied existing and tried to keep silent. There must also be good things.
The government's role is the villains keeping the good and bad ancient things asleep. Their role will begin to decay when all that falls apart.
A different villain than the Gorusei would have to be involved in taking advantage of the bad things that get woken up, and Blackbeard perfectly fills that role.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Blackbeard is going to harness the One Piece, or whatever knowledge and power he attains at Raftel, BEFORE Luffy does.
That much has been obvious for a while now.
I'm thinking Luffy gets there first, so that he achieves Pirate King status.
But BB leaps in Oolong style or something and takes what he wants.
But certainly, Dragon's struggle against the World Government will take centre stage at some point in the story - a mjor event in the story which will probably also involve the full telling of Kuma's story and such. But that whole event will derive a lot of its meaning from the origins of the two sides and the origins of the struggle which would involve a telling of the True History.
So a war against the WG will happen. It's not like Dragon's going to somehow be dissuaded. And it seems a sensible assumption that the SHs will be involved in that war. And it seems in turn reasonable that the SHs would be fighting against WG (not necessarily with the revolutionaries, but certainly against the WG).
That's the one thing I feel like people tend to forget when coming up with their ideas for the final villain, the Revolutionaries role in everything.
If there was ever going to be a force to fight off the WG first, if there would be anybody that uses the True History to cause a War that'll bring chaos to the World, I'd bet it would be group trying to directly face and bring them down.
I highly doubt Oda would go the route of Dragon going full anti-hero to the point where Luffy would ever fight him, but it's just much more likely that Dragon would do anything with the knowledge of the True History before Luffy ever would, setting the gears of the final arc into motion and even being part of the cause of the damage that will occur at the end.
If anything, if Luffy ever took actions from learning about something from the past, that'd probably be going against character since he's the one person that never cares about personal backstory. He only cares about the here and now, and if his friends are safe, living in the moment.
Now I ultimately side with the idea that Blackbeard will be the final villain, but having the Revolutionaries try to fight the WG seems like plenty reason for Luffy to get emotionally invested enough to fight them in the end.
I would like to see a naval battle Mugiwara vs Blackbeard pirates in front of Raftel's shore :)
Not the final showdown but a cool skirmish
@Monkey:
Yes exactly, the Blackbeard's will fit directly into the ancient storyline.
He's an evil D, and as people have been saying, there are dangerous things that will be involved in what's been locked away.
The Government is a villain with good intentions at least to some extent, if they know what they know? And are totally evil? They would have dug up and used the weapons by now, if not ruled off their power. Like Spandam had in mind.
Those dangerous things are part of whatever good things the government has also denied existing and tried to keep silent. There must also be good things.
The government's role is the villains keeping the good and bad ancient things asleep. Their role will begin to decay when all that falls apart.
A different villain than the Gorusei would have to be involved in taking advantage of the bad things that get woken up, and Blackbeard perfectly fills that role.
I don't think you've really addressed the point. And you've completely ignored the second point.
There will be a revolutionary-WG war at the climax of this story. So what, are we going to see in the midst of this the SH pirates going one-to-one against the BB pirates? While a war which may as well not be happening because it's actually a different conflict is happening around them?
I'd also like to point out that, concerning 'taking advantage of bad things that get woken up', I can certainly see Akainu doing so in the name of justice, especially if another side (Blackbeard or Dragon) does so first. Sure, the Gorosei are this careful, cautious power who are maintaining the balance all the time, but Akainu has been established as the aggressive agent of justice. In other words it is actually possible that he would attempt to break the balance in favour of the Navy. Or if not that, that he would at least take a more aggressive stance than the Gorosei in the case of chaotic events. And somehow I have doubts that Dragon would be all that wary of using 'bad things' if they would help him achieve his aim.
My second point, which you neatly ignored, concerns Mihawk and Zoro's dream. Basically, you would expect Zoro to duel with Mihawk again sometime and overcome him to become greatest swordsman in the world. It would be pretty terrible if that had happened in the timeskip, so we can sensibly assume that it will happen later, towards the end of the story. If Zoro's ultimate battle is to be with a member of the Blackbeard pirate crew, and if Zoro's final battle is to be a genuine struggle … I could see that feeling a little off, that he's achieved his dream to be the greatest swordsman by surpassing Mihawk but goes up against an even stronger foe soon afterwards in the form of the BB pirate crew member. Especially if that member is Shiliew fighting him as a swordsman (DF power or not).
I don't think you've really addressed the point. And you've completely ignored the second point.
There will be a revolutionary-WG war at the climax of this story. So what, are we going to see in the midst of this the SH pirates going one-to-one against the BB pirates? While a war which may as well not be happening because it's actually a different conflict is happening around them?
I'm "ignoring" this only if you assume that the war at the end involves one party, and that I'm just ignoring the other parties. I'm not. Of course revolutionaries and the WG, and differing Marine factions will be involved. The question of the thread isn't "who will or won't be in the final war". It's who will be the final villain of all.
We've all gotten in a bad habit of calling the Whitebeard event a "war" when it was a battle. One battle.
The war at the end of the series is likely an actual war. With multiple battles, fronts, events, and a timeline of it's own where at various points people like Dragon and the Gorusei might meet their ends or come to the forefront.
Again, that is NOT the point of this thread. That might as well be a different thread, discussing all the different things that could happened in the conflictS post Raftel. It's absolutely not what this thread is about.
The final event would be what we're talking about, the climax of EVERYTHING, even within that war. For our heroes.
A battle with the Blackbeards, probably after Akainu, Dragon, and the Gorusei have been dealt with or taken out in some fashion.
I'd also like to point out that, concerning 'taking advantage of bad things that get woken up', I can certainly see Akainu doing so in the name of justice,
Yeah he could do that, I mean there's multiple dangerous things so maybe he gets one. Except who cares, because Akainu is DEFINITELY not the final villain and that's what we're discussing? Blackbeard has absolute supremacy over him in every sense in terms of plot importance, that much is clear.
Sure, the Gorosei are this careful, cautious power who are maintaining the balance all the time, but Akainu has been established as the aggressive agent of justice. In other words it is actually possible that he would attempt to break the balance in favour of the Navy. Or if not that, that he would at least take a more aggressive stance than the Gorosei in the case of chaotic events.
If you're trying to make a technical argument as to why Character X could do what BB does, you're forgetting to make a thematic argument. BB is sstill unchallenged on that front, and until he is, ain't nobody least of all Akainu gonna be the final villain.
Reminder, that's what we're discussing, the final villain.
My second point, which you neatly ignored, concerns Mihawk and Zoro's dream.
I didn't ignore that because it had nothing to do with our argument or this thread at all.
Not to mention it's easily answered and HAS been.
Basically, you would expect Zoro to duel with Mihawk again sometime and overcome him to become greatest swordsman in the world. It would be pretty terrible if that had happened in the timeskip, so we can sensibly assume that it will happen later,
Nobody except the dumbest of the dumb ever assumed he beat him during the timeskip lolll, why even bring that up?
towards the end of the story. If Zoro's ultimate battle is to be with a member of the Blackbeard pirate crew, and if Zoro's final battle is to be a genuine struggle … I could see that feeling a little off, that he's achieved his dream to be the greatest swordsman by surpassing Mihawk but goes up against an even stronger foe soon afterwards in the form of the BB pirate crew member. Especially if that member is Shiliew fighting him as a swordsman (DF power or not).
I'm surprised you've never heard the arguement about what's gonna happened.
-Shiryu eats the Diamond fruit after the BB's track down and kill Joz and steal his fruit Whitebeard style.
-Shiryu kills or otherwise takes down Mihawk before Zoro gets his rematch.
-Zoro having built up sense of personal relationship and even mentorship with Mihawk is upset in multiple ways.
-Shiryu is the new greatest swordsman.
-Happy cool fun drama for final match with BB team where Zoro beats him and becomes at last the greatest. And also cuts diamond.
All of this 'it's not what we're discussing' stuff … it isn't directly, but it is related. I'm not wandering off completely on a tangent.
@Monkey:
If you're trying to make a technical argument as to why Character X could do what BB does, you're forgetting to make a thematic argument. BB is sstill unchallenged on that front, and until he is, ain't nobody least of all Akainu gonna be the final villain.
Blackbeard is ONLY unchallenged on that front. Other than grudge reasons where Blackbeard pretty much pales in comparison to Akainu at least, the whole idea of Blackbeard being the final Luffy is entirely down to him being basically the 'anti-Luffy'.
I'm surprised you've never heard the arguement about what's gonna happened.
-Shiryu eats the Diamond fruit after the BB's track down and kill Joz and steal his fruit Whitebeard style.
-Shiryu kills or otherwise takes down Mihawk before Zoro gets his rematch.
-Zoro having built up sense of personal relationship and even mentorship with Mihawk is upset in multiple ways.
-Shiryu is the new greatest swordsman.
-Happy cool fun drama for final match with BB team where Zoro beats him and becomes at last the greatest. And also cuts diamond.
I'm … slightly surprised this theory is apparently so popular. Zoro vs Mihawk not happening ... ?
I mean other than it not fitting well with Blackbeard being the final villain, it doesn't seem like a compelling outcome at all to me.
Blackbeard is ONLY unchallenged on that front. Other than grudge reasons where Blackbeard pretty much pales in comparison to Akainu at least, the whole idea of Blackbeard being the final Luffy is entirely down to him being basically the 'anti-Luffy'.
Ace dying is really really unimportant next to the central themes of the entire plot.
It's not just the anti-Luffy, it's the claim to the new era and what that represents.
That's a more important battle than people who are sitting on top of there not being new anything (the government).
And some asshole who killed Luffy's brother who represents nothing to Luffy otherwise.
I'm … slightly surprised this theory is apparently so popular. Zoro vs Mihawk not happening ... ?
I mean other than it not fitting well with Blackbeard being the final villain, it doesn't seem like a compelling outcome at all to me.
loll no it fits perfectly with BB being the final villain. What the fuck are you talking about.
How could BB's henchman becoming the focus of Zoro not fit well with BB being the final villain lol.
And how is it not compelling exactly? We have the issue already of diamond cutting brought up, and Mihawk was shown to not be able to do this. Suggesting a few things, that he's not himself the end all be all, and that surpassing him has been waved in our face as being an issue of the diamond. That diamond fruit almost has to be eaten by a Zoro opponent. And beating that person BEFORE Mihawk would imply Zoro was already stronger than Mihawk.
Not to mention a Shanks aligned mentor to Zoro would be beaten when in your mind? Before the war? Because he wouldn't be fighting the Strawhats in such a war. Meaning Zoro would have to beat him beforehand, which would make his dream already fulfilled. And you call this more compelling than the final fight involving his dream? With a genuine evil bastard to cut down rather than a gruff but friendly mentor figure whose friends with Shanks?
@Monkey:
loll no it fits perfectly with BB being the final villain. What the fuck are you talking about.
How could BB's henchman becoming the focus of Zoro not fit well with BB being the final villain lol.
My bad, that 'not' shouldn't be there. I was going to say the same thing the opposite way then changed my mind and left the 'not' :S
And how is it not compelling exactly? We have the issue already of diamond cutting brought up, and Mihawk was shown to not be able to do this. Suggesting a few things, that he's not himself the end all be all, and that surpassing him has been waved in our face as being an issue of the diamond. That diamond fruit almost has to be eaten by a Zoro opponent. And beating that person BEFORE Mihawk would imply Zoro was already stronger than Mihawk.
Not to mention a Shanks aligned mentor to Zoro would be beaten when in your mind? Before the war? Because he wouldn't be fighting the Strawhats in such a war. Meaning Zoro would have to beat him beforehand, which would make his dream already fulfilled. And you call this more compelling than the final fight involving his dream? With a genuine evil bastard to cut down rather than a gruff but friendly mentor figure whose friends with Shanks?
These are fair points. Well, I don't think that one flying cut being blocked by Jozu says absolutely that Mihawk couldn't have cut Jozu, but otherwise yeah. For whatever reason, the idea doesn't sit well with me but I guess I'm a little closer than before.
@Monkey:
And how is it not compelling exactly? We have the issue already of diamond cutting brought up, and Mihawk was shown to not be able to do this.
He also didn't cut Daz the first time he blocks him. It doesn't mean he couldn't cut him at all.
He also didn't cut Daz the first time he blocks him. It doesn't mean he couldn't cut him at all.
You're saying Oda deliberately showed Mihawk not cutting the diamond man, but secretly Mihawk could if he tried harder?
Think about what Oda is showing you and why. You're thinking like Oda a cameraman randomly trying to capture a big bunch of events, rather than in complete control of what is shown.
@Monkey:
You're saying Oda deliberately showed Mihawk not cutting the diamond man, but secretly Mihawk could if he tried harder?
Think about what Oda is showing you and why. You're thinking like Oda a cameraman randomly trying to capture a big bunch of events, rather than in complete control of what is shown.
He attacked him once. And it was at the start of the war when everyone was being impressive. With the whole idea of swordsman choosing what they to cut or not to cut I really think we should wait a little be saying Mihawk can't cut diamond.
What would you do if one of the characters you thought you knew turned around and ended up becoming the big bad?
That'd be some AnE and Homestuck shit right there in terms of expectations being crushed by betrayal.
He attacked him once. And it was at the start of the war when everyone was being impressive. With the whole idea of swordsman choosing what they to cut or not to cut I really think we should wait a little be saying Mihawk can't cut diamond.
WHAT idea of swordsman choosing to cut or not cut. Sounds like someone read a shitty translation of the Mr.1 fight!
Besides do you know what Mihawk was choosing to cut? He was choosing to cut the strongest man in the world. That was unquestionably a full power swipe, the whole point was he wanted to see "the distance" between himself and Whitebeard by seeing what his swipe would do.
Why the hell would Oda choose to show Mihawk fighting the one man in the world with diamond powers, a duel that has no reason to ever happened again, and in that one moment he chose to show it, he chose to show Mihawk being unable to cut it.
It didn't happened by accident that Oda would show that.
I'll be happy as long as we get to see Mihawk fight at full power against the BB Pirates, maybe fighting alongside Shanks.
