@Rean said in Chapter 1058: New Emperors:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1058: New Emperors:
There's not only super powerful guys out there in the world. I'm sure that with everything going on right now, there's missions fodder can actually take care of and be it something simple as crowd control. Sending those guys out expecting they would capture Warlords is just a dumb move. To quote the man himself "If you're doing it, do it thoroughly". God I love non-bureaucrat Sakazuki.
They almost did tho, look at Buggy! Was only saved by his Yonko-tier luck!
Buggy is a weak idiot who shouldn't have the status of Warlord in the first place as he does not have the strength to do, what the WG expect of someone in this position, which is to provide a counterbalance to the Emperors.
@Bugs said in Chapter 1058: New Emperors:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1058: New Emperors:
@Barkworm said in Chapter 1058: New Emperors:
I don't know whether it's been discussed or not but another thing I found really disappointing was how the Navy dealt with the Warlords. When Fujitora mentioned Vegapunk's new invention and how it would make the Warlords superfluous, I was sure said invention would be an integral part of capturing them. Instead it looks like the navy just sent a bunch of warships to deal with guys like Mihawk who would just sink them effortlessly much like Crocodile did. Remember that panel where Hancock goes "Oh, they probably forgot how strong we are!" At least I thought a line like that was a setup for them getting crushed but it turns out the Navy really just forgot.
Seems like really weird writing.
Yeah, that was really dumb. That the line by Hancock turned out to be true in the end is even more ridiculous when you consider why the WG had the Warlord system to begin with, which is the whole balance of the three powers thing. In other words Warlords and Marine HQ on the one side, Emperors on the others. Just sending regular battleships without your top dogs on board is not gonna cut it. At least Issho was on one of those ships. Did he go to Amazon Lily or somewhere else?
He's at sea but where to is unknown. The one sent after Hancock was Koby. And well...
Thinking about it more, it was always weird that Sakazuki wanted to keep the warlord system intact but Issho didn't. You'd think the hardliner who thinks "children of wicked parents should be killed" would also never trust a pirate as an ally and yet... "the system must be balanced...big mom and kaido are joining forces so we need help..." is apparently his viewpoint. [Not saying I don't get the reasoning but... that's a Borsalino line.]
Right you are. Of all the Admirals Sakazuki as he's been portrayed pre-timeskip should be the first one to have a problem with trusting pirates to take care of other pirates. Perhaps I have read this all wrong and One Piece is a story in which Oda is critisizing the corporate society in Japan in "this is what bureaucracy to you". Ok, I've arbitrarily decided that this is what Oda really is going for. The romantic adventure is there to hide things. That's why the story get's worse as he's running out of ideas on how to hide his true agenda.^^
@Bugs said in Chapter 1058: New Emperors:
@wolfwood
The Navy has always been rather incompetent; as I've said elsewhere, it's very disappointing that Sakazuki's new status didn't indicate a more brutal policy change in conduct.
Right? Kuzan lost a leg fighting to keep hardliner Sakazuki from becoming Fleet Admiral. And this is what we end up with? Seems like an unnecessary confrontation to begin with. Unless of course it was all a ruse for Kuzan to infiltrate the Blackbeard Pirates as a member of Sword.
That would be disappointing. If nothing else, I would like Kuzan's line "you don't need to be in the navy to accomplish things" to have some real bite to the man's changing view of justice. Of course, Oda might abandon that plot point to speed things up.
Not saying it's gonna happen but I can see it happening. True that statement would lose some bite but it could have been made to make people believe he really left the Marine.
@sggupta said in Chapter 1058: New Emperors:
@Ivotas said in Chapter 1058: New Emperors:
But considering all valid arguments just brought about the chaos the WG is dealing right now, it is even a more ridiculous move to send precious troops on suicide missions that accomplish nothing but reducing the number of your resources.
Firstly, I very much doubt this is a "suicide mission". Yeah they probably are not gonna capture the shichibukai but I really doubt that they are so weak that they are gonna get easily obliterated, esp in One Piece world where killing someone takes much more effort than simply defeating them. The shichibukai would also avoid mass slaughter unless they want to go to war against the marines
That's a readers meta level way of looking at things. Inside the OP world itself nobody thinks something along the lines "this is OP so we are harder to get killed". Yes, for decades we have been conditioned that there are no stackes. Doesn't mean though that the characters in the OP world believe that. If a OP character would have the same outlook on the world as the reader had then we would have to rewrite many things. Vivi wouldn't say "2 millions are gonna engage in meaningless slaughter. A lot of peole are gonna die" but "rather do you know how many bandages we require for 2 million people brawl with each other? Arabasta doesn't have the funds to provide that".
But I get your point about the term suicide mission perhaps being to strong a word. I didn't mean to say they purposefully sent them to die. But meta level outlook on things aside, it's ultimately what the mission ended up being.
Secondly, they have to send someone, even if for appearance's sake. They can't let the shichibukai lead a cosy and carefree life in full plain view now that the system's been abolished. An objective they did succeed in, considering that Mihawk had to pack up and leave from his home.
They have stronger people they could send. Not just admirals. Remember when the Buster Call was a thing? True, the battleships alone accomplish nothing but having five Vice Admirals work together, I'm sure wouldn't be an easy takedown for a Warlord. Yes, there's been some fodder amongst them but not all of them. Five of them should do something.
Also aside from that, why isn't Ryokugyu going after a Warlord in the first place. Rather then "do you know what is happening in the world outside right now?" how about actually being there and try to keep the guys at bay you clearly have the power to do so? We saw Fujitora. But Kizaru and Ryokugyu were weirdly absent. Also why not send Garp and Sengoku. That entire retirement angle is just yet another Oda being inconsequential thing. They retire but Sengoku has no problem bursting in on a meeting of Marine officers and spill the beans about the Rocks pirates, while Garp is doing no better by being escort to reverie royalty just like his active protégé Coby does, while also being in Marine dining halls IIRC. Why not send those guys?
And yes, I'm aware that we saw Vice Admiral Stainless. That's a good start. Though more than just one would have been nice.
You make a point that the marines can be sent elsewhere more effectively, but not sending anyone would have political fallout. In the end, Akainu is not 100% independent.
Sending out people who cannot handle it makes them look just as incompetent. As I said in the paragraphs above, they have someone they could send. Also let's not forget responsibilities and jurisdiction. Wasn't it said that the Marines are the WG's 'organization' (for the lack of a better word) on the sea. And that stuff like kerfuffle between other countries or dealing with the Revolutionary Army is not their domain? My memory's a bit iffy on that. But if that's the case then with all that's going on, its the government agents, not just Cipher Pol (and possibly a government army if they even have one) who should take care of the commotion throughout the world right now. The Marines resposibilities are the seas. And that's the domain of pirates. So send they better send strong Marines to catch strong pirates.
I mean I can understand that you cannot have guys like Admirals hunt specific pirates without knowing where they are. Smoker being the big exception. But they knew exactly where to catch Hancock, Mihawk, Weevil and Buggy. Sending the Admirals, Sengoku, Garp should have done quick work with them. But then again Fujitora, Sengoku and Tsuru together couldn't even capture Jack so what do I know.
Edit: just remembered that Akainu became Fleet Admiral because the government Higher ups wanted it. Aokiji had Sengoku's recommendation, along with the support of his subordinates like Smoker. So people shouldn't expect too much independence with respect to the govt from him
Aokiji independently said that he doesn't want to be part in a Marine organization lead by Sakazuki. At least that's the story that we were told. We never heard it from Kuzan himself but considering their past at Ohara I'm quite sure that there's very strong personal feelings involved.
There have been plenty of occasions where they had serious discussions or provided strong emotional support for each other, but only when the situations calls for it.
Don't think I made this statement randomly without any reason behind it. I might have been a long time but I still am an old timer who knows how people here can tick.
