I hope they trash him around a little and then Oda off panels the fight half way and later shows Kaido sitting alone holding his club and rest of them spread around like fertilizer. :ninja:
Chapter 987: Vassals of Glory
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Yeah, I think many of us were misinterpreting how Kaido's incredible strenght works. He was never meant to be this untouchable monster that nobody can even scratch. On the contrary, you can kick his ass all you want, he'll just get back up anyways. Just like Luffy. All villains are dark reflections of Luffy in a way, so I guess it's finally him to be the one yelling ''why won't you stay down!!!!!!!''
That's why Oda has no problem showing him on his back, screaming or bleeding. You can hurt him, but it just won't matter in the end.
Idunno, Kaidou is indeed good at getting up after being knocked down, but here he is also literally expressing surprise that their blades are capable of piercing him, suggesting that this is not something that ever happens -same with him experiencing pain and crying out. Which fits quite nicely with his introduction anecdote of "guillotines break on his neck!" and the whole "He only ever got ONE wound!" deal.
I really like the whole Scabbards stabbing Kaidou sequence for the record, but that is expressly because Kaidou always came off as a big impenetrable wall of beefcake, which makes this moment - where the beleaguered heroes are roaring with emotion and manage to get a hit in in the nick of time, to Kaidous utter surprise - so much more satisfying and cathartic. Him being stabbed at all being no biggie lessens the impact of the scene considerably.
But of course, ever since chapter 970, how easy it is to put a dent in Kaidou has been a major point of contention in the fanbase
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What's bad is that Doflamingo who was terrified of Kaido looked like a bigger threat than Kaido ever did. Which is hella disappointing.
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And yet he is terrified of him. Which by your weird logic makes Doflamingo look weak.
Thank God Oda and majority of readers doesn't follow that weird ass logic. Makes story more fun.
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Doflamingo at least had the birdcage and beat up Law even going as far as to cutting his arm off. He did pretty well before getting smacked around by Luffy.
Meanwhile Kaido is just going to get smacked around and then die.
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And yet he is terrified of him. Which by your weird logic makes Doflamingo look weak.
Thank God Oda and majority of readers doesn't follow that weird ass logic. Makes story more fun.
You don't get my point. Doflamingo till the end looked invincible. It were retarded circumstances that made him loose. On the other hand Kaido gets smacked constantly.
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Suuuuuuuuuuuure.
Man now I hope he just gets smacked around for like 20 chapters straight and then just destroys everyone. Just to see you two knuckleheads reaction.
Of course anyone who doesn't have the patience of a fruit fly knows that isn't realistic.
Also, I think it's pretty darn cool to see Kaido getting "smacked" (sigh) around while his reaction is basically "hrm, this is weird, aight let's do this".
Oda's writing has been pretty on point lately :)
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@Joy:
You don't get my point. Doflamingo till the end looked invincible. It were retarded circumstances that made him loose. On the other hand Kaido gets smacked constantly.
I think it has more to do with the type of personality the two characters have, rather than strength. Doflamingo is a much more cerebral character than Kaido. Kaido is reckless like Luffy, who constantly shrugging off attacks. Doflamingo is more like Robin, the last she major damage she received, from Diamante, she hid. That plus the fact shes always up against cannon fodder makes her look unbeatable. Now no one would argue Robin is stronger than Luffy, but in many ways she is more imposing.
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Suuuuuuuuuuuure.
Man now I hope he just gets smacked around for like 20 chapters straight and then just destroys everyone. Just to see you two knuckleheads reaction.
Of course anyone who doesn't have the patience of a fruit fly knows that isn't realistic.
Also, I think it's pretty darn cool to see Kaido getting "smacked" (sigh) around while his reaction is basically "hrm, this is weird, aight let's do this".
Oda's writing has been pretty on point lately :)
In the climax of the arc the antagonist is supposed to look like a mountain not like a pebble. Right now Kaido looks small, he looks vulnerable and weak.
You guys insisted that he's fight back this chapter and it never happened. That's a fact.
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I hope they trash him around a little and then Oda off panels the fight half way and later shows Kaido sitting alone holding his club and rest of them spread around like fertilizer. :ninja:
I’m hoping for a “Darth Vader in the corridor” type of scene, personally. One of those in which the villain is scary and brutal, showing it in all of its glory.
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@Joy:
In the climax of the arc the antagonist is supposed to look like a mountain not like a pebble. Right now Kaido looks small, he looks vulnerable and weak.
You guys insisted that he's fight back this chapter and it never happened. That's a fact.
Aren't you overreacting? At the end of this chapter all the "wounds" Kaido had disappeared and he looked as fresh as ever. Oda even had him pointing that he sobered up, aka he was drunk when he got caught off guard.
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An off screening with him standing above a bunch of bodies sounds like present day Oda. But i still want that big Kinemon moment, make it happen Oder
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Yeah, Kaidou tanking a large group of Su Long minks+Scabbards isn't fine at all lol Get outta here with that Debbie downer stuff.
It's always the same two people lol, how Kaido looks weak when he's taking on the Scabbards and a Mink army all by himself is beyond me…
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Aren't you overreacting? At the end of this chapter all the "wounds" Kaido had disappeared and he looked as fresh as ever. Oda even had him pointing that he sobered up, aka he was drunk when he got caught off guard.
How am I overreacting ? They hurt him, that's a fact. We saw Kaido bleeding from guys who normally wouldn't accomplish a thing.
And as I said Kaido will be reduced to hype tool for Sulong. This is current Oda. He won't lose but his showing will be crap.
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Aren't you overreacting? At the end of this chapter all the "wounds" Kaido had disappeared and he looked as fresh as ever. Oda even had him pointing that he sobered up, aka he was drunk when he got caught off guard.
Overreacting is mostly what they do. With a side of weird entitled "Oda isn't writing how I think he should write" -ism.
Edit: it's pretty funny.
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Or alternatively the next chapter might cut to what will happen with the calamaties and the supernovas. Maybe teasing us a bit longer with the fall out of the roof battle
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@Joy:
How am I overreacting ? They hurt him, that's a fact. We saw Kaido bleeding from guys who normally wouldn't accomplish a thing.
And as I said Kaido will be reduced to hype tool for Sulong. This is current Oda. He won't lose but his showing will be crap.
They made him bleed using the same power as Oden did, and the damage were superficial. Is Kaido bleeding now taking away the fact he took a beatdown from G4 fine?
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It's always the same two people lol, how Kaido looks weak when he's taking on the Scabbards and a Mink army all by himself is beyond me…
Honestly, I think Kaido being an absolute tank is just awesome to me… Getting pounded, stabbed, shot, whatever and just getting up and being fine while draining the hope out of the scabbards and minks seems like a cool way to really portray Kaidou as this 'Unkillable' creature
Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship
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Literally any top tier can do what Kaido did. They can also take on scabbards and the mink army and they wouldn't be screaming in pain and getting trashed by them. They would fight back and win easily.
If Whitebeard or Shanks was in Kaido's place they would have already won because those characters are actually strong.
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Honestly, I think Kaido being an absolute tank is just awesome to me… Getting pounded, stabbed, shot, whatever and just getting up and being fine while draining the hope out of the scabbards and minks seems like a cool way to really portray Kaidou as this 'Unkillable' creature
This is a good take
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@Joy:
You guys insisted that he's fight back this chapter and it never happened. That's a fact.
Its an ongoing series with varied pacing. It's basic story structure stuff, show the tiniest bit of patience.
It didn't happen this week so we're "wrong", but if he does it next week, does the difference of two or three pages mean we're still wrong? Or that we were right and it just took a moment to get to? Or if it takes another week after that? What's the threshold?
The fight has JUST started, and we don't know how long Oda is going to pace it all to be. But that the heroes are pulling out their big cards this early instead of as a reversal later means its no longer a trump card, but something to be crushed early to showcase power. Sulong forms now is BAD for the heroes, that's how back and forths work with drama.
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They made him bleed using the same power as Oden did, and the damage were superficial. Is Kaido bleeding now taking away the fact he took a beatdown from G4 fine?
Kaido one shot Luffy the next moment. Here Kaido was on his knees bleeding and took the fight outside because reasons. Big difference.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Its an ongoing series with varied pacing. It's basic story structure stuff, show the tiniest bit of patience.
It didn't happen this week so we're "wrong", but if he does it next week, does the difference of two or three pages mean we're still wrong? Or that we were right and it just took a moment to get to? Or if it takes another week after that? What's the threshold?
The fight has JUST started, and we don't know how long Oda is going to pace it all to be. But that the heroes are pulling out their big cards this early instead of as a reversal later means its no longer a trump card, but something to be crushed early to showcase power. Sulong forms now is BAD for the heroes, that's how back and forths work with drama.
The point is normally this shouldn't be a fight. Put old WB in Kaido's place, he destroys them. He fights back right away. That's what I;m expecting from the strongest creature. Instead as I said, Oda will have him used as a hype tool for the mink nation. Ridiculous.
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Same whitebeard that got stabbed by marine fodders and squardo? What a strange example
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Same whitebeard that got stabbed by marine fodders and squardo? What a strange example
When WB got stabbed by Squardo, he came down to the battlefield, he utterly wrecked John Giant in a single blow and the went ahead and tilted all of MF. Oda literally named that chapter as "the man who shakes the world" How do you compare this to Kaido ?
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[/hide]He never seemed any less impressive to me despite taking hundreds of wounds.
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chapter 569 whitebeard gets pierced by marine fodders after getting hit in the chest by akainu and getting a heart attack
immediately after he destroys them
chapter 987 kaido gets pierced by kiku and kinemon because he has ptsd
huh that's weird I can't seem to find the page where Kaido beats them up
He never seemed any less impressive to me despite taking hundreds of wounds.
Because he fought back. He destroyed two vice admirals, two shotted Akainu of all people and then beat up Blackbeard.
Not to mention everyone including Sengoku shitting their pants at the thought of having to fight him.
And creating massive tsunamis that almost destroyed Marineford.
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maybe you should let Kaido the time to fight back, for now he was more busy talking than fighting
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maybe you should let Kaido the time to fight back, for now he was more busy talking than fighting
We've been waiting for 60 chapters for Kaido to fight back. it's always that.
Also why were the scabbards able to hurt him ? That's a really good topic. Swords couldn't pierce him etc, Yonko and marines couldn't execute him but the scabbards can ?
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Yes, Whitebeard was pierced by Marine fodders. There is no need for time letting the emotion of the moment sink in. WB or these Marines have any special connection to each other, they have no reason for any kind of talk.
Kaido is facing 9 established characters to whom he has a direct connection to and reason for facing in actual battle. Yes, he will demolish them, but the story can't just gloss over this emotion-driven moment for the scabbards. They're like Viper to Enel and Law to Doflamingo.
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Emotions are power in shounen.
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Reading the comments really reminds me that this used to be a kids manga and that many people still have the mentality of kids… maybe, just maybe, reading this series weekly instead of bunched up once an arc is over isn't the right way for... some people in this thread.
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Yes, Whitebeard was pierced by Marine fodders. There is no need for time letting the emotion of the moment sink in. WB or these Marines have any special connection to each other, they have no reason for any kind of talk.
Kaido is facing 9 established characters to whom he has a direct connection to and reason for facing in actual battle. Yes, he will demolish them, but the story can't just gloss over this emotion-driven moment for the scabbards. They're like Viper to Enel and Law to Doflamingo.
Doflamingo decimated Law. Time and time again Doflamingo put him down. There was no equal exchange. There was just a superiority coming from Doflamingo.
Here the scabbards and minks will give Kaido a beating. See the difference ?
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I seem to recall Law gutting Doffy with his gamma knife.
Compared to that him getting stabbed seem pretty mild.
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With Luffy big phrase this chapter, do you really think "Big Mum will not be defeated in Wano since she has tie to Elbaf"
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@Joy:
Doflamingo decimated Law. Time and time again Doflamingo put him down.
I think you need to re-read that fight. Law lost definitively to Dofla the first time they fought, the same way way Luffy lost to Kaidou in the first round (and Arlong and Crocodile and Lucchi and others before him…).
But for the actual fight that mattered, the one with the flashback in the middle of it, while also dealing with Bellamy and Trebol, Law held his ground equally against Dofla multiple times with his sword in repeated clashes, allowed Luffy to get his initial hits in, dropped a tower on him, faked him out with a giant Room bigger than the eye could see, and landed a gamma knife blow that nearly killed Dofla and forced him onto his back and bleeding, and then landed a finisher shock attack. Dofla had to do immediate surgery to hold his organs together, weakening him before his fight with Luffy.
Law held his own against Dofla for several chapters straight. Dofla was dominant and won in the end, but Law got his hits in, and would have killed anyone that didn't have what amounted to resurrection healing powers. it wasn't nearly as one sided as you seem to think.
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Kaido is facing 9 established characters to whom he has a direct connection to and reason for facing in actual battle. Yes, he will demolish them, but the story can't just gloss over this emotion-driven moment for the scabbards. They're like Viper to Enel and Law to Doflamingo.
No he won't. It will be him getting demolished.
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With Luffy big phrase this chapter, do you really think "Big Mum will not be defeated in Wano since she has tie to Elbaf"
I'm more and more sceptical with that scenario"Defeated" and "done" are two different things. Especially for a character that has split personality and is missing part of their memory and a whole mess of plot threads with her kids still lingering..
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I think you need to re-read that fight. Law lost definitively to Dofla the first time they fought, the same way way Luffy lost to Kaidou in the first round (and Arlong and Crocodile and Lucchi and others before him…).
But for the actual fight that mattered, the one with the flashback in the middle of it, while also dealing with Bellamy and Trebol, Law held his ground equally against Dofla multiple times with his sword in repeated clashes, allowed Luffy to get his initial hits in, dropped a tower on him, faked him out with a giant Room bigger than the eye could see, and landed a gamma knife blow that nearly killed Dofla and forced him onto his back and bleeding, and then landed a finisher shock attack. Dofla had to do immediate surgery to hold his organs together, weakening him before his fight with Luffy.
Law held his own against Dofla for several chapters straight. Dofla was dominant and won in the end, but Law got his hits in, and would have killed anyone that didn't have what amounted to resurrection healing powers. it wasn't nearly as one sided as you seem to think.
Nah. Doflamingo and Law start the second fight, flashback starts, flashback ends and Law attacks Doffy with injection shot. The Law throws whatever else and Doflamingo easily stops him and cuts his arm. Only reason Law managed to land Gamma knife was because Doflamingo thought he was dead and because of Luffy
Kaido on the other hand prefers to talk and scream and allow the scabbards to hit him instead of attacking himself.
As I said. Nothing can save this. Odas writing is too obvious now. Good guys must absolutely look the best. Kaido is a hype tool for the minks
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you’ve said it yourself: Oda himself has not put Kaido in an offensive position yet. You might be right in the end of it all, but rn you are trying to capitalize too early on an argument that doesn’t really makes sense. The one time Kaido was sober and fighting, he destroyed Luffy - let’s see how it goes with the Akazaya Nine.
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Doffy and the gamma knife is a pretty good example of how tanking through damage can make you seem more imposing. Bullshit string powers aside it is impressive when a character comes back from deaths door to dish it out again, kind of like WB losing his face and just keeping at it makes him tons more imposing than beating up a gigant ever did
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Joy Boy and John seem to know EXACTLY what happens in the next few chapters. Use spoilertags guys.
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What miserable takes Joy Boy. Just relax and give the dang fight a chance to unfold.
I for one have found this interaction between Kaidou and the Scabbards to be extremely entertaining.
I predict Big Mom will be defeated this arc due to some memory shenanigans. Some kind of massive blow to the head that would severely lower her defenses as we saw last arc. Not a unique prediction of course. But without Struesen does anyone else think it's possible that Big Mom herself realizes what she did? As an adult with an adult perspective and a massive bump on the head she pieces together her personal mystery. I don't know what Oda has cooked up but that realization could be really intense for the beatings about to be dished out on both ends. At that point I imagine her crew will collect her and retreat. All this only after a satisfying fight of course.
Later we see her broken with no will to carry on. Still in the story as Loki, Lola and Elbaf stuff get addressed but steadily her mind, body and empire are deteriorating. She'll live past this arc where I believe Kaidou will absolutely die but what kind of life will she have as an empty husk of her former self?
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Joy Boy seeing Kaido bleeding = 4Kids seeing any character bleed.
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Joy Boy seeing Kaido bleeding = 4Kids seeing any character bleed.
This made me laugh pretty hard. Thank you for your service in these dire times.
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I think its very clear that there is a TON that needs to be addressed in Wano and it will all take a significant amount of time. Lets give Oda the opportunity to actually set everything up before the chaos is dropped. Let events that we know will happen in their own way actually happen before we judge things out of spite.
Like, come on guys, the arc is barely halfway at this point. We all know, just from how other arcs have been that Oda spends a significant amount of time on the climax/battle portion side of an arc.
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Since there is no easy out like spirit Caramel being involved in the child eating i'd assume that any unlocking of that horrendous memory would cripple her mentally. Either that or it's just a misleading memory and all those kids and Caramel are fine. I know the rest of ya'll hated it but i still feel Oda missed an opportunity by not having Caramel use her devil fruit to try and save herself at the point of her demise
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@Joy:
We've been waiting for 60 chapters for Kaido to fight back. it's always that.
And the scabbards have been built since punk hazard for this exact moment, why they don't deserve a moment to shine against their biggest enemy before they got defeated? And even when they put all of their power and their will (sunnachi) in one surprise attack, they didn't did any major damage to the guy. Pierced him? Yes, but Kaidou was just fine at the end of the chapter.
They are probably the strongest samurais of Wano, the place that Akainu rejected to go and one of the motives is because of the unknown strength of their samurais. And even putting all their will, they did just minor damage against him. And after the fall, the 9 of them were more injured than Kaidou, even though Kaidou did nothing offensively.
Now, all the Mink army will go sulong against him and probably won't get too close to defeat him. The sulong, that was built up 100 chapters ago as an extremely powerful force for the alliance, is being used in the start of the fight and probably won't be enough to defeat just one guy. And is this not a showing of power by Kaidou?
@Joy:Doflamingo decimated Law. Time and time again Doflamingo put him down. There was no equal exchange. There was just a superiority coming from Doflamingo.
Here the scabbards and minks will give Kaido a beating. See the difference ?
Kaidou decimated Luffy in a way that Doflamingo wasn't even close to do. And Kaidou did that after Luffy use all he could use to try to beat him, and with one single move, Kaidou destroyed him. And was this not a showing of kaidou power?
Btw, the fight right now is going in the same path as the luffy's one, with the difference that now he is taking some damage. Kaidou's mindset just seems to be:
1°Allow his opponent to do whatever they want and all they can do to try to hurt him
2°After this, go to offensive mode and smash his opponentsDon't get me wrong, there are some points in Kaidou as a villain that need to got better for him to be a really good villain (and I hope that it will be developed in the next chapters). But to say that he doesn't show superiority or anything like you have been saying doesn't make any sense to me.
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It's amazing how much some people disregard the narrative all for the sake of "power scaling" nonsense.
I fully expect the minks and the samurai to get Kaido good only for them to suffer a crushing defeat.
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Having Kaido not be affected at all by the Scabbards' attack would be possibly the biggest example ever of completely ruining buildup. If I spent two years and 80 chapters reading this arc just for the Scabbards to be completely inconsequential in the climactic war I would be pretty pissed as that is objectively bad writing. What makes this complaining even more unfathomable is that it's basically guaranteed Kaido is going to win here. Y'all need to give panels and chapters their due weight in the scope of the larger story and enjoy the story as it comes along. It was the same crap in Whole Cake Island where I swear people were acting like Big Mom was done for and had just shit the bed whenever a chapter had the most minor of a Straw Hat victory, only for later chapters to have Big Mom keep chugging along and tormenting the protags.
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