Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

electricmastro

@Monquito said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

This is something we dont know at all cause evidently Oda doesnt care enough for the Minks to elaborate further.

We never knew if there was any familiar relationship between the previous Zou ruler with Inu and Neko, and neither we know if there's any between Inu, Neko and Carrot, we dont know if there exists a royal family at all. Chapter 1056 kinda implies that their usual methodology to choose a King is based on experience in the outside world.

That might be the reason why they're invoking Pedro's will, as the leader of Nox, and having explored several places in search for other poneglyphs, Pedro was very likely next in line to become a king, and in his absense, now is Carrot.

Yeah, the Minks seem to look up to people and encourage other Minks to be leaders depending on how impressive they feel their accomplishments, experience, and potential is.

electricmastro

@Shin10-Bukuro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I think a future 11th member is all but confirmed. Not only the idea of 11 has been floating at least since Water 7 (when I started following discussions), but Blackbeard ended up with 10 titanic captains as a counterpart. I even think the counterpart to the 11th Straw Hat has been introduced as far back as Marineford, just like the Jaya BB Pirates had hints of future crewmates in them.

But I feel Oda purposelly kept feeding us temporary candidates for two reasons:

He can't help but create more and more characters, and the lack of a new nakama leaves room in arcs for secondary characters to have their time in the spotlight

He knows that speculation on next crewmate keep people engaged

(And bonus: potential would-be nakamas mean potential merchandise to sell. Like towels.)

While pre-timeskip most arcs had a new crewmate, we still had potential new nakamas in Vivi and Wiper, for instance.

My guess for the 11th crewmate is that he/she:

Is an already established character

Will be (re)introduced pretty early in the Final Saga

Is likely to be highlighted pretty quickly within the context story itself, unlike in most other joining arc.

When the structure of the New World sagas became clearer, I made a theory that we'd have two sagas (Emperor Saga and another one), with one crewmate per saga rather than arc. I think I thought that almost 10 years ago, and it stuck with me. I feel it's all but confirmed now.

You all know who I think it is, but there's some other potential ones floating around (Carrot if she stows away again, maybe Bonney, some think Smoker...)

Many expect Vivi. I think she will be a companion and will sail with the crew again, but I don't think she will count as the 11th nakama (I don't expect match-ups or a Blackbeard counterpart for her).

I would argue that the Vivrecard databook essentially acts as a spoiler on the topic of new Nakama.

The publishing company incurs a risk by not leaving an open spot for #11. That risk being they cannot amend the numbering order for cards they have already printed and sold, which incentivizes them to order everything correctly the first time.

I highly doubt they wouldn't foresee this, and thus I imagine they were able to eliminate said financial risk by asking a simple question to Oda: "Should we leave #11 open for another crewmember?"

It would have been an easy "yes or no" question that would help out the Databook financially, which is of course made by the same publisher that makes Weekly Shounen Jump. Frankly, it's common sense.

So, I think the answer is clear: There will not be an "official 11th Nakama." Luffy's 10th person will simply be Vivi.

Nah, might be too late for Vivi to reunite now as a Straw Hat.

Hakase

Carrot was always grouped together with the dukes and minks her subtext story was clearly king of zou.
Also the panel size when she was with the dukes was very indicative of that as well.

Galleon Panthera

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I really hope Carrot's situation is made 100% clear ASAP.

Like, if she's in the ship, then reveal her right away.
If she's not, then add a scene of her leaving with the Minks and promising she'll do her best to back the Straw Hats up, as Pedro wanted.

I just hope we don't linger on it, leaving the situation ambiguous for God knows how long while some readers keep hoping beyond reason.

This. If she doesn't join, that is fine, but for goodness sake, give her a worthy departure scene.

Deicide

@Hakase I never got this subtext of Carrot being any closes to the dukes than characters like Wanda or Pedro. But, unlike Yamato, I wasn't really analyzing every detail of each appearance as the chapters were released.

My main observation in Carrot's case is where the story was taking her. We didn't see her showing leadership skills, for instance, nor expressing any desire of taking leadership, nor the circunstances forcing her to act as a beacon to her people.

Since she boarded the Sunny with just the desire to have some fun, I was totally expecting her to just have enough fun and feel it was time to return home.

Pedro's death sure gave her some purpose, continuously refered as Pedro's Will, but that too was never really fleshed out in the story. Arc words like "Everyone has its time to shine" or "Keep moving forward" were so vague and open to interpretation that we can hardly agree on what they mean.

At this point, I can see Carrot accepting her role as leader and returning home as the will Pedro entrusted to her, but I can also totally see Carrot stowing away again because that could also be the will Pedro entrusted to her.

It's so open-ended at this point that anything goes. Especially when we consider that Oda has been rushing this final phase of Wano by addressing the bare minimum of several plot points, so we can't be sure if Carrot's scene is meant to be considered plain and clear or the prelude to a twist.

Hakase

The argument and logic is the exact same so you can just mirror your analysis. It makes perfect sense if we just imagine things to make it fit... sorry I mean if we look at the subtext.

As for me I just think Oda heavily dropped the ball with her. Her becoming king is just pulled out of nowhere for a character that spend the entire last 4 years doing absolutely nothing. I've never been on the boat about her joining but even I'm just massively frustrated with Oda not even giving her like a panel where she evacuates people from flames or really anything to make her succession as king of Zou connect.
Her defiant stare against Perosperos to end just in her lying on the floor the entire raid feels like a complete letdown when you think about how other characters like Conis/Aisha, the multitude of Gladiators, Chimney, etc etc have been treated. It strikes me like Oda just forgot about her.
Pedro's will right now just seems like a thing Oda decided to delay on clarifying and it's possibly going to be dragged into the finale which just seems kinda stupid to me. But we'll see.

In my mind stuff like that should have just been maybe answered by now if we're considering the guy wants to finish in 3 years.

As for stowaway memes I get why people are hoping for that from a fan perspective but from an actual writing perspective that would be the biggest flub for wants to end in 3 years man. Cause you're not going to convince me that's a joining that's worthy of a strawhat and wouldn't force Oda to actually put some work into her in the future.

Deicide

Oda sure bit more than he could chew in Wano. He shouldn’t have introduced so many characters and plot points. And he should have planned better how he was concluding them.

Carrot is one of the many affected parties. In the end, we got a lot of “tell” and not a lot of “show”.

theackwardstation

@Hakase said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Carrot was always grouped together with the dukes and minks her subtext story was clearly king of zou.
Also the panel size when she was with the dukes was very indicative of that as well.

But you're being disingenious with your argument just to parody arguments against Yamato joining.

Just to make it very clear, ever since Wano started Carrot hasn't received any treatment worthy of being the next SH, so there's little build up into it story-wise. This is obvious, so anyone who argues this have a totally valid point, substantiated by the manga. And, in my eyes, this lack of momentum makes it highly unlikely that Carrot will join the crew -- although her stocks raised out of nowhere because of the weirdness of how things ended for her in chapter 1056.

But the "facts" you used for your "subtext mockery" are untrue, because Carrot hasn't been grouped with the Dukes nearly as much as she has been grouped with the SHs. That's mostly because of her participation in WCI, obviously, but even in Wano (as a unimportant background character) she was presented more like a rogue mink and SH's friend (who tagged along) instead of belonging to the mink crowd who were doing their stuff.

Still, her chances are low because of the last 4 years. Any reasonable case in favor of Carrot joining should be solely based on her portrayal and development in WCI, and arguing that her irrelevance in Wano was just a pause button until resuming next. Let's see.

Hakase

@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Hakase said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Carrot was always grouped together with the dukes and minks her subtext story was clearly king of zou.
Also the panel size when she was with the dukes was very indicative of that as well.

But you're being disingenious with your argument just to parody arguments against Yamato joining.

Just to make it very clear, ever since Wano started Carrot haven't received any treatment worthy of being the next SH, so there's little build up into it storywise. This is obvious. So anyone who argues this have a totally valid point, which is substantiated by the manga. And, in my eyes, this lack of momentum makes it highly unlikely that Carrot will join the crew -- although her stocks raised out of nowhere because of the weirdness of how things ended for her in chapter 1056.

But the "facts" you used for your "subtext mockery" are untrue, because Carrot hasn't been grouped with the Dukes nearly as much as she has been grouped with the SHs. That's mostly because of her participation in WCI, obviously, but even in Wano (as a unimportant background character) she was presented more like a rogue mink and SH's friend (who tagged along) instead of belonging to the mink crowd who were doing their stuff.

Still, her chances are low because of the last 4 years. Any reasonable case in favor of Carrot joining should be solely based on her portrayal and development in WCI, and arguing that her irrelevance in Wano was just a pause button until resuming next. Let's see.

The result is correct my argument can't be refuted. Don't just treat me like an lucky idiot when the result speaks for itself Like given this is how it's ended up maybe I was onto something.

Or are you going to argue the argument matters and the result doesn't actually make the argument good?

Sorry to say though but inventing things and claiming them as subtext to suit the result is just that tight of an argument. It's always going to work cause the result supports it.

Also I wish the actual issue was a lot of "tell" vs show at this point I'll also take clumsy info dumps so stuff actually connects. The issue right now is that Oda actually just doesn't explain anything which if you believe in Oda he is just delaying it and if you don't believe in Oda means he's just lost it and is fine with leaving things immensely unsatisfying.

theackwardstation

That's just a strawman.

Deicide

@theackwardstation So, his post was ironic? I didn't get that subtext.

I think the Carrot discussion is very valid. Carrot's portrayal in the last few years is a huge setback for her joining, however, it could still be that Oda left her away from the spotlight for a time to return to her later. The appointment as Duchess may be the catalyst to keep her around.

But my opinion (Carrot is not meant to join) hasn't changed, I'm just less sure now than I was before 1056.

Hakase

@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

That's just a strawman.

Sounds like you're just unable to concisely articulate where my argument falls apart.
I have unrelated manga panels ready to support the subtext of it too.

theackwardstation

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I think the Carrot discussion is very valid. Carrot's portrayal in the last few years is a huge setback for her joining, however, it could still be that Oda left her away from the spotlight for a time to return to her later. The appointment as Duchess may be the catalyst to keep her around.

I think the discussion is totally valid. Anyone who argues against Carrot have a point. I'm even saying that to me personally her chances look low because of Wano.

theackwardstation

@Hakase said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

That's just a strawman.

Sounds like you're just unable to concisely articulate where my argument falls apart.
I have unrelated manga panels ready to support the subtext of it too.

I have concisely articulated that your argument that "Carrot was always grouped together with the dukes and minks her subtext story was clearly king of zou" is strictly false.

Hakase

@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I have consisely articulated that your argument that "Carrot was always grouped together with the dukes and minks her subtext story was clearly king of zou" is strictly false.

You really haven't she's been grouped consistently with the dukes in Wano is a fact funnily I have panels to support that no need for me to fall on subtext for it. And the end result fits my argument.

Like it's almost funny how we're almost there to admit that yeah the argument matters and the result will not retroactively make a terrible argument more convincing.

And once we accept that maybe we can dive in deep into what makes an argument good. As far as I'm concerned inventing things that don't exist in the text and then claiming them as subtext fitting them to a result that's essentially also a 50/50 definitely doesn't do it.

theackwardstation

I really don't get your attitude at all. It just seems like you don't get that folks on the other side of your opinion are not being forceful about Carrot or Yamato, just presenting some analysis, which are not meant to be absolute truths with inexorable outcomes, but simply valid readings of the story to substanciate a prediction, even if the outcome does not turn out to be true. But, in your need to "mock", you just mistake the nature of our argument and makes it the opposite of what it is. So you think that saying random shit like "Carrot is always with the minks and I can prove it" is somehow clever parody.

When folks point out that Yamato spent more time bonding with Momo than the SHs, that's just true, and you can check that. This doesn't mean that Yamato won't join the SHs, because that's not a definitive factor at all, since other stuff point towards Yamato joining. It's alright.
But when you try to mirror that by claiming that Carrot spent more time with the minks than with the SHs, that's just factually untrue. It's not even worth considering in the debate, because it's just invention. It just makes you look salty.

Sorry, but I can't waste my time with this discussion. I'll leave.

Hakase

@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I really don't get your attitude at all. It just seems like you don't get that folks on the other side of your opinion are not being forceful about Carrot or Yamato, just presenting some analysis, which are not meant to be absolute truths with inexorable outcomes, but simply valid readings of the story to substanciate a prediction, even if the outcome does not turn out to be true. But, in your need to "mock", you just mistake the nature of our argument and makes it the opposite of what it is. So you think that saying random shit like "Carrot is always with the minks and I can prove it" is somehow clever parody.

When folks point out that Yamato spent more time bonding with Momo than the SHs, that's just true, and you can check that. This doesn't mean that Yamato won't join the SHs, because that's not a definitive factor at all, since other stuff point out to Yamato joining. It's alright.
But when you try to mirror that by claiming that Carrot spent more time with the minks than with the SHs, that's just factually untrue. It's not even worth considering in the debate, because it's just invention. It just makes you look salty.

Sorry, but I can't waste my time with this discussion. I'll leave.

I don't get your attitude either why are you taking issue with me using the exact same logic for a different argument? I thought it was all dressing anyway and never the point. Like why are you so eager to paint it as a mock if you think the argument is 100% fine. Sounds like some weird double standard about it only working when it's done to support the validity of your argument vs the validity of other arguments.

When I point out that Carrot spend more time with the dukes and minks in Wano that's also just true you can check that as well. You saying my argument is Carrot spend more time with the Strawhats than the Mink is a misrepresentation of what I said cause I never claimed that.

Carrot was always grouped together with the dukes and minks her subtext story was clearly king of zou.
Also the panel size when she was with the dukes was very indicative of that as well.

alt text

Nowhere are the strawhats mentioned. The argument is literally Carrot is in a lot of panels in Wano(well in a lot of the minimal panel time she has) with the dukes/other minks. This means the subtext of her story is becoming the king of zou. It's clear as day given the result that was always the plan. So unless your arguments redraw those panels you haven't really managed to form a convincing counterargument. But I guess it's easier to make strawmans up to disagree with.

If you're feeling frustrated about this argument maybe it would be good to look into why this argument doesn't work for you at all, it might be enlightening.

Like maybe just maybe and hear me out this might sound totally crazy... but characters appearing in panels together doesn't automatically create the subtext of a storyline that is never picked up on in any other shape or form. Maybe just maybe... the absence of things supporting any storyline is actually basis to criticize the author for doing an unsatisfactory job and actually not an excuse to support a 50/50 result.

But if that sounds too wild for you I have an inkling that really any argument that is build on the same process but isn't to your personal liking won't work for you.

electricmastro

@Galleon-Panthera said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

I really hope Carrot's situation is made 100% clear ASAP.

Like, if she's in the ship, then reveal her right away.
If she's not, then add a scene of her leaving with the Minks and promising she'll do her best to back the Straw Hats up, as Pedro wanted.

I just hope we don't linger on it, leaving the situation ambiguous for God knows how long while some readers keep hoping beyond reason.

This. If she doesn't join, that is fine, but for goodness sake, give her a worthy departure scene.

I guess if Yamato’s joining can be delayed, then Carrot might be the same. If Carrot does join, then I’d anticipate her taking up the dream of accomplishing the Dawn in dedication to Pedro and herself, because that sounds much more interesting than just sailing to see the world, assuming Pedro was the “Shanks” in Carrot’s life. I’d anticipate her to step up in backing Luffy up when need be too.

Galleon Panthera

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

If Carrot does join, then I’d anticipate her taking up the dream of accomplishing the Dawn in dedication to Pedro and herself, because that sounds much more interesting than just sailing to see the world,

This has always been the intent of mine. "Just sailing to see the world" isn't really much to go on, and was just the start for things to come. You can even couple this with the idea that her ultimate fate at EOS is that she takes up the Duchess role of Zou, now having the knowledge and wisdom to take it on.

Of course, it will depend on whether 1058 makes true on that stowaway theory. If not, well, then it was fun while it lasted. I'm only having doubts now, because of the absence of Hyogoro not having gotten a personal goodbye scene with Luffy.

Deicide

You know, with Carrot being appointed ruler, her dream could very well become worthy of such a position.

Ch 1056 had her immediately saying she wasn't the strongest there. It could be a sign of what kind of objective she could have.

Galleon Panthera

@Deicide said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

You know, with Carrot being appointed ruler, her dream could very well become worthy of such a position.

Ch 1056 had her immediately saying she wasn't the strongest there. It could be a sign of what kind of objective she could have.

That is what I have been constantly saying. It adds layers to her character that, while she says she's not ready for such a position, she can be in the future.

I never hated the idea in the first place, but just getting that position without having done much for it, isn't right, unless Oda just decided it out of nowhere and offscreened her entirely. If she were to get the position now, she should have shown hints or desires to be a ruler, like Momo did countless times.

I mean, to me, it sounds much better if she were to go with the crew, stock up on knowledge, grow to understand Pedro's words and use that wisdom to become worthy of the Duchess position at EOS.

It enhances her dream, respects Pedro's will, and gives it a satisfying conclusion to her arc with no loose ends.

Shin10 Bukuro

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Nah, might be too late for Vivi to reunite now as a Straw Hat.

I'm interested to know why you think that.

Because, from my perspective, a brand new character like Yamato is a very late addition to only just begin developing. It would require tons of interactions with other crewmembers, multiple fights against top-level opponents, as well as a yet-to-be-unveiled entire character arc. That's a lot to squeeze in considering the author has expressed the desire to end the series soon.

Vivi, on the other hand, comes pre-loaded with a development arc already under her belt. It's also pretty undeniable that she will have a character arc of some sort when one thinks of the implications of Imu targeting her for assassination.

electricmastro

@Shin10-Bukuro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Nah, might be too late for Vivi to reunite now as a Straw Hat.

I'm interested to know why you think that.

Because, from my perspective, a brand new character like Yamato is a very late addition to only just begin developing. It would require tons of interactions with other crewmembers, multiple fights against top-level opponents, as well as a yet-to-be-unveiled entire character arc. That's a lot to squeeze in considering the author has expressed the desire to end the series soon.

Vivi, on the other hand, comes pre-loaded with a development arc already under her belt. It's also pretty undeniable that she will have a character arc of some sort when one thinks of the implications of Imu targeting her for assassination.

Well I was half-joking, but honestly though, although I'd believe Vivi will travel with them for a time, I don't think Vivi would just push aside her kingdom now. She didn't do it back then, and I hesitate to think she'd push it aside now in light of her dad getting killed and Alabasta most likely being in chaos right now.

As for Yamato, I don't think it will ever be too late. Oda invested this much time in Yamato know as it is in Momo most likely being set-up as a "Shanks figure to her," as well as Oden seemed to have a meaningful relationship with Roger even if they only knew each other for a year. So if they can have a meaningful relationship, I'm willing to believe Yamato can have a meaningful one with Luffy too by the time of Laugh Tale.

Deicide

I'm very sure Vivi is going back to the ship. Like, 99% sure (there must always be a bit of doubt).

But I don't think she will be the 11th. I feel her presence is nice and fits the story, and she's a good friend, but she's not the one that completes the crew. She will be regarded as nakama in-story, but under a meta-perspective (color spreads, Blackbeard counterpart, match-ups) she won't be a crewmate, but a companion.

danie

Funny that VIvi is with the crew in the youtube spread...That doesn't mean anything, right?

Deicide

@danie

She's been considered "nakama" ever since Arabasta. There's nothing new on that. She's a very special character and Oda obviously has plans for her. But that status does not make her the 11th crewmate.

Fun fact: in SBS for Volume 76, Oda gave her the number 5.5 to signify her position in the crew.

About Vivi, I noticed that out of the countless characters that have appeared in the series so far, she seems to be the only character who is deemed to be a comrade without officially being in the crew, and if possible, I wanted to know if you could please tell us the specific number/specific color/animal resemblance/country/blood type/favorite food/least favorite food/etc., revealed for the rest of the Straw Hat Pirates so far, for her as well. P.N. Hoshino Shizuku

O: Gotcha. The fandom is strong with Vivi.
Specific Number: 5.5
Specific Color: White (Gold)
Animal Resemblance: Dove (Discussed with her voice actress: Misa Watanabe)
Blood Type: F
Favorite Food: Curry, Pudding
Least Favorite Food: Dried Squid

Robby

@Shin10-Bukuro The vivre cards started coming out in 2018. Theyy wouldn't leave a big open blank spot for literal YEARS, that would be a dead giveaway. Even Jinbe's open spot was a pretty obvious flag. And 5 years ago even Oda may not have been 100% sure.

They covered their bases by putting the boats in there. The ONLY boats in the entire set. They can always slot an extra member in there and then retcon some extra boats and random things later later with an expansion set, (weapons, islands, etc.) so the boats being numbered as such can then be 12 and 13 of a different category entirely and keep their numbering.

And a whole bunch of the cards have been reprinted and updated and retconned, particularly with "has haki" and "wano costume" variants. And Yamato's card for instance didn't showcase his zoan form, so that'll need an update.

electricmastro

Well, regardless of what happens with Yamato going forward, I think I'll stay keen on her development, because I think it will be interesting. I think the only way I'd completely give him is if she gives finality in giving up her ambition to sail out forever, which I doubt she'd do. So look forward to any discussions I'll have with her. Even if I'm the odd-man out here, I wish for the best.

Kishido

I don't like Vivre card much but Vivi until now is still the only character stated as former Mugiwaras and right behind the ships staying at Numero 13.

Same as she still is in the banner on YouTube.

Kishido

So either Vivi will rejoin or the crew is complete. I know BBs... But maybe someone of them will be Bluenoed before or we will have an awesome team battle vs San Juan prior to the match ups.

There is no time left for another SH to join... But I know that this thread will still pop up soon at the next arc

Cockycent

I just don't see Vivi as a possible crewmate. It's like calling a sibling you share blood with, "half brother/sister".

She went through multiple arcs with them and they view just her, not some collective, a nakama. She is clearly a SH.

Kishido

@Cockycent she still is back in the story in some form. Can't wait to see what happened

Deicide

So, where do you think Vivi is now?

I think she's imprisoned in Mary Geoise. Imu having an interest in her was pretty ominous, we all doubt Sabo killed Cobra, and, most damning of all, the Revolutionaries had completed their objective hours (or days) before Cobra's assassination, so there were no reasons for themto stick around and save Vivi later.

Why "few hours (or days) before"? There's an inconsistency between Ch 925 and Ch 1054 that needs to be addressed:

In Ch 925, Blackbeard says the Revolutionaries fought the Admirals to free Kuma in the 4th day of Reverie (which lasts seven days). In 956, Garp says the Alabasta event happened after the Reverie. So, these events happened at least three days apart.

But, in 1054, these events are just a few hours apart.

Hopefully, this small discrepancy will be fixed when Volume 104 comes out.

Anyway, both versions make the Revolutionary attack happen way before Cobra's assassination. So, it's unlikely that Vivi has been saved by Revolutionaries.

danie

I'll be honest. I did think Yamato was going to join but their was reasons to doubt it.

All things considered, I'm glad she's not joining but Oda is a troll for constantly pushing that idea only to back out in the end.

Deicide

Over these last 2 years, in the many discussions about Yamato as potential crewmate, I gathered as many panels that I could to show that the story was progressing towards him bonding with Momonosuke. Thus Yamato was going to stay.

Here are the images. They tell a whole story:

spoiler

Edit: Added spoiler tag so people do not need to scroll down the entire post every time they come to this thread.

danie

@Deicide Oh you thought she was going to stay because she has to explore Wano before going out to sea? If not, you were right for the wrong reason and have no right to brag.

Kurloz

This thread aged like milk

StrawHatJedi

Regarding Yamato not joining the crew, I can’t say I’m surprised as this pretty much the outcome I have been expecting.

But I think there’s a twist, I haven’t really seen being discussed.

I want to note here that chapter 1057 really isn’t focused on Yamato at all. This chapter wasn’t about her choosing to remain behind. We didn’t even see the conversation between Luffy and Yamato. Rather, this chapter is focused on Luffy’s parting with Momo – and all of the emotional beats come from their brotherly bond.

Yamato isn’t even the first one to say she’s remaining behind. Jinbei and Vivi were the ones to announce their own decisions. Instead, the first person to say, ‘you’re staying!?’ is Momo, responding to an off-panel announcement from Yamato about her new intentions. Which his to say, that Yamato’s decision is treated like a tangent, to make Momo being snubbed appear even more egregious.

Yamato says she decided off-panel to remain behind because she wants to see Wano first. Which doesn’t entirely fit with the rational I suggested for her remaining behind in my videos / previous posts. And that’s because I think Yamato might be lying to Momo.

Chapter 1055 clearly impacted Yamato’s understanding of what it means to live like Oden. As I suggested in my video, Yamato was surprised to learn her father’s downfall created a power vacuum which leaves Wano vulnerable. Yamato is the most powerful of Momo and Wano’s defenders and living like Kozuki Oden means protecting the land and people Oden treasured.

I still believe Yamato’s reason for staying is to protect Momo and Wano, which she may have told Luffy and crew in their off-panel conversation. Ask, why didn’t Oda show us this conversation directly? Yamato sacrificed her dreams / desires for the sake of Momo and Wano. But unlike Luffy, she doesn’t want to tell Momo he’s a small, weak dummy. She has a bit more tact than that. The reason this chapter centered the emotion on the Straw Hat’s emotional departure from Momo with Yamato basically watching as a bystander is because the Straw Hats know her real reason for staying.

Deicide

@danie

Whatever the reason Yamato states for him to stay, the fact is that the story was building up Yamato's bond with Momonosuke and not spending any time with the crew. That's now undeniable, whatever the angle you choose to look at things.

If you want to just take that small speech balloon as the entire truth and ignore the story that was told over 74 chapters, feel welcome. It doesn't matter to me.

@StrawHatJedi said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Chapter 1055 clearly impacted Yamato’s understanding of what it means to live like Oden. As I suggested in my video, Yamato was surprised to learn her father’s downfall created a power vacuum which leaves Wano vulnerable. Yamato is the most powerful of Momo and Wano’s defenders and living like Kozuki Oden means protecting the land and people Oden treasured.

I agree.

I won't be surprised if we get a small flashback to Yamato's talk with the crew eventually.

Shin10 Bukuro

@Robby said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Shin10-Bukuro The vivre cards started coming out in 2018. Theyy wouldn't leave a big open blank spot for literal YEARS, that would be a dead giveaway. Even Jinbe's open spot was a pretty obvious flag. And 5 years ago even Oda may not have been 100% sure.

They covered their bases by putting the boats in there. The ONLY boats in the entire set. They can always slot an extra member in there and then retcon some extra boats and random things later later with an expansion set, (weapons, islands, etc.) so the boats being numbered as such can then be 12 and 13 of a different category entirely and keep their numbering.

And a whole bunch of the cards have been reprinted and updated and retconned, particularly with "has haki" and "wano costume" variants. And Yamato's card for instance didn't showcase his zoan form, so that'll need an update.

The boats being placeholders is a fair idea (one I came up with myself as well), but I think the simplest answer is best, even if we don't want to hear it.

There's just so much to get to and not enough time...I would imagine that spots 11 and 12 are actually just going to remain the boats and not future crewmates at this stage in the game.

It's not the fun and sexy answer we want, but the truth is that the fun has to come to an end sometime.

--
@electricmastro said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Well I was half-joking, but honestly though, although I'd believe Vivi will travel with them for a time, I don't think Vivi would just push aside her kingdom now. She didn't do it back then, and I hesitate to think she'd push it aside now in light of her dad getting killed and Alabasta most likely being in chaos right now.

Imu seems to want her erased from history. If she goes to Alabasta, she could easily be found and killed by CP0/etc.

Her best chance of avoiding assassination at this point is rejoining with her Nakama.

@danie said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

@Deicide Oh you thought she was going to stay because she has to explore Wano before going out to sea? If not, you were right for the wrong reason and have no right to brag.

I disagree. Deicide is the champion of this thread. He took on everybody, stood his ground through thick and thin, and won.

That is NOT easy.

He deserves all the bragging rights.

Shiebs

After what just happened with Yamato I wouldn’t be surprised if Carrot joins as the look out

Blissed

Yamato not joining after all that, after all the toxicity within the fandom, is genuinely hilarious.

Deicide

As for Carrot, like I said earlier in the week, I still think she won't join, but the latest development, and now this chapter without any clear conclusion for her, did make me less sure than before.

I have a feeling that we may still see something about both Yamato and Carrot next chapter. One or two flashbacks of their talks to the crew. As @StrawHatJedi said, Yamato seems to be hiding the full truth from Momonosuke so the later don't blame himself for Yamato's decision. At least, the context we got indicates there's more than just the desire to walk all over Wano.

But, back to Carrot, I hope the story does not linger on the mystery any longer. After such a long arc, readers deserve their rewards or, at least, resolutions.

Shiebs

I love Carrot as a side character, but I honestly don’t think she’s Straw hat material

But seeing as how I was all in on Yamato wtf do I know

Robby

So... two years of this nonsense.

Everyone was right.
And everyone was wrong.
And everyone is disappointed.

What the hell was that, Oda?

Already gone on at length about... that... in the spoiler thread and the discord so I won't repeat myself.

I'm not against Yaamto sticking around Wano, that makes some sense, but give more than a one panel mention of an off-camera discussion with Luffy if you're going to have a major swerve like that. Carrot's farewell was equally a non-thing with no follow up (Unless she shows up stowing away next chapter.)

Also I guess I should apologize to any Hancock/Perona/Rebecca/Carrot/etc supporters I might have been rude or dismissive to over the years, regardless of what happens next. If I was mean or rude or an awful person, I wasn't insulting you, I was insulting your stupid full of holes theory.

And now it was my stupid full of holes theory too.

Whatever your feelings on Yamato, that was EXTREMELY sloppy and rushed. Is this a film red thing? A last minute decision to cut one more person to speed things along? Just always a red herring to make a Wano character fans actually liked? Any way you slice it that was handled badly.

If Oda's THAT willing to change course just a chapter after the characters make it clear they're doing one thing, and they change their mind the next... there's no point in debating this stuff or trying to prove anything or debunk or argue if Oda is willing to completely throw things to the wind on a whim. So i think, barring Carrot stowing away next chapter, or responded to people mentioning this exact post....

This is going to be the last time I post in this thread. Because while this has always been a dumb pointless thread... now really what's the point?

So long Nakama thread. You were a waste of everyone's time.

pokebat7

Yamato actions this chapter don't surprise me.

With Carrot if you look into the reasons why she should join they make a fair bit of sense, as you can read them as her joining or her becoming Duchess. With Yamato a lot of her moments mainly focus on what being Oden means, because she is Oden she would die for Momonosuke, because she is Oden she will save Wano, because she is Oden she will Travel Wano.

A core part of Yamato's character is her Oden identity it is one of the that is the most reinforced part of her, over her relationship with Momo, over her joining the crew. I find it important that Yamato was only introduced after we meet Oden, in the raid it can be said that she took the place of Oden in guiding Momo, and we know from her backstory that even though she does not wield a sword she is a samurai like Oden.

While I don't think this chapter completely destroys her chance of joining the crew. I do believe this chapter was a good place to leave Yamato for now, where she does what she's always done and tries to be Oden.

Shiebs

I’d love to hear Greg’s reaction to all this

electricmastro

@StrawHatJedi said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):

Regarding Yamato not joining the crew, I can’t say I’m surprised as this pretty much the outcome I have been expecting.

But I think there’s a twist, I haven’t really seen being discussed.

I want to note here that chapter 1057 really isn’t focused on Yamato at all. This chapter wasn’t about her choosing to remain behind. We didn’t even see the conversation between Luffy and Yamato. Rather, this chapter is focused on Luffy’s parting with Momo – and all of the emotional beats come from their brotherly bond.

Yamato isn’t even the first one to say she’s remaining behind. Jinbei and Vivi were the ones to announce their own decisions. Instead, the first person to say, ‘you’re staying!?’ is Momo, responding to an off-panel announcement from Yamato about her new intentions. Which his to say, that Yamato’s decision is treated like a tangent, to make Momo being snubbed appear even more egregious.

Yamato says she decided off-panel to remain behind because she wants to see Wano first. Which doesn’t entirely fit with the rational I suggested for her remaining behind in my videos / previous posts. And that’s because I think Yamato might be lying to Momo.

Chapter 1055 clearly impacted Yamato’s understanding of what it means to live like Oden. As I suggested in my video, Yamato was surprised to learn her father’s downfall created a power vacuum which leaves Wano vulnerable. Yamato is the most powerful of Momo and Wano’s defenders and living like Kozuki Oden means protecting the land and people Oden treasured.

I still believe Yamato’s reason for staying is to protect Momo and Wano, which she may have told Luffy and crew in their off-panel conversation. Ask, why didn’t Oda show us this conversation directly? Yamato sacrificed her dreams / desires for the sake of Momo and Wano. But unlike Luffy, she doesn’t want to tell Momo he’s a small, weak dummy. She has a bit more tact than that. The reason this chapter centered the emotion on the Straw Hat’s emotional departure from Momo with Yamato basically watching as a bystander is because the Straw Hats know her real reason for staying.

Yeah, people saying Yamato was being treated like Vivi here, but even Vivi had her feeling and decision-making over leaving focused on more. I don't feel like Yamato will stay on Wano forever, but I don't doubt Yamato is feeling more insecure, or maybe even scared, than she's letting on.

Mentioned this in another thread, but I get the suspicion Yamato will have to deal with her own insecurities and gain greater purpose before finally setting out with Luffy.

danie

@Deicide Talking about ignoring; do you ignore that Luffy was the one to literally free Yamato from her shackles? That Yamato said on more than one occasion that she was going out to sea with Luffy? I guess if you thought that didn't matter, you were right. But I also guess you were wrong about her stated reason for staying so, again, you have no right to brag.

pokebat7

@electricmastro
Yeah, Compared to Vivi the send offs to Momo, Tama, Kin'emon, Yamato, are for more tame but fitting for non-crewmates.

A lot of people read into Yamato having deep underlying insecurities, but outside of one Kaido line we haven't seen much come out of that idea. And I doubt it will be tackled now given that their were plenty of moments to do it during the raid.