Chapter 538 "Lv5.5 New Comer (Kama) Land" Discussion

[DesertSpada]

Wow. I THOROUGHLY enjoyed this chapter. There was so much awesome information in it and it made the story progress pretty rapidly without it seeming out of place. Well, it's down to the wire now and Luffy has overcome the poisons just as Magellan is finishing his last constitutional. Now, he needs to QUICKLY eat and formulate a plan of getting Ace out of there…...it's one thing to beat Magellan and all, but what would you do then? Well, by the looks of it, things are going to get messy. Really messy. There are a lot of big named prisoners on Level 6 and Whitebeard is still out there somewhere, and most assuredly on his way to Impel Down or something. He has his plan.

Very nice chapter.

[Phoenix Zoan]

@Kiavik:

So… I think this chapter KINDA confirmed the regenaration of devil fruits after the user death. Why? Because it talks about a guy with a tunnel digging devil fruit ability. So I suppose it's the mole mole fruit. But we saw Miss Merry Christmas already had that one, and I dont think she's ever been imprisioned in Impel Down. So maybe after that guy who digged up new kama land died, the fruit respawned and Miss Merry Christmas ate it? What do you guys think?

It was actually stated in a earlier chapter that there can be only one type of devil fruit at one time. I forgot what chapter though. Which basically means that once a previous DF user dies a similar fruit later on appears for the next generation to eat. This theory made sense since according to BB there's books showing what a DF looks like and considering has been looking for a darkness fruit and was able to identify it by shape you can then say that someone who had the darkness fruit previously (along with other fruits users) identified and described DF to someone who was making a DF book adding more DF as more were eaten. So yeah a similar DF ends up appearing sometime after the DF user dies.

As for the tunneling fruit. It's most likely the previous owner of the DF that Merry Christmas had. She's never been to ID.

[newone]

@dwo:

WOW !!

This was the most exciting xchapter since long. A lot of content, a lot is going on. Ace will be taken away "the next chapter?" Luffy does what ??

Oda does a great job! Thank you.

Yeah i agree with you
this is the best chapter in this whool arc

[RobinotX]

What do you guys think? Could Luffy lose 10 years of his life because his body aged 10 years?

[SeriusReader]

I liked epic shit what happenst to Luffy. And those new pirates, they sound super! But cheering party… lame rly, but Brokama looks next nakama shamely. Huh that was fun when Iva tells that Zero-chan is crazy badass, he sure is. Second jailboss look rly super, but he is gonna turn some coofy looking shithead I m sure... because its Oda lol. I hope not this time. Most intresting thing in this chapter was that guy with tunnel tunnel no mi...

[MagneticMonkey]

@RobinotX:

What do you guys think? Could Luffy lose 10 years of his life because his body aged 10 years?

Right now nothing is sure. According to ivans reaction to luffy screaming food i will say that his calculation might also be false.
And why would his body have aged 10 years? My speculation about that was that the treatment cost luffy so much energy that the cells might have been affected by aging rapidly. But that's a wild speculation without facts. Now the most probable prediction was that he lost a lot of weight thus looking that bad.

[Angel emfrbl]

I just take the 10 years thing as "strain and stress" on his body and nothing to do with aging processes at all.

[smurfx]

btw wouldn't it make sense for luffy's treatment to take up only half the time since his body is rubber? his body is much tougher than normal humans because it's rubber and luffy's will is enormous so that helps a lot too. that might be why iva miscalculated luffy's treatment. btw do you think iva can see into level 6 with that den den mushi? we know you can't look into level 5 since it's freezing but the guards should have access to level 6 since there doesn't seem to be any crazy conditions down there. maybe while luffy is eating they will see that they have come for ace and then luffy will have to make a mad dash to level 6 to save ace.

@Ryuksgelus:

So like, what happened to the whole level 5 prisoners having access to keys plot-point?

i do wonder how oda will handle this. maybe their role will be to escape and take out the marines surrounding impel down? will oda really tease us and not have all the prisoners riot in impel down?

[MagneticMonkey]

@smurfx:

btw wouldn't it make sense for luffy's treatment to take up only half the time since his body is rubber? his body is much tougher than normal humans because it's rubber and luffy's will is enormous so that helps a lot too. that might be why iva miscalculated luffy's treatment. btw do you think iva can see into level 6 with that den den mushi? we know you can't look into level 5 since it's freezing but the guards should have access to level 6 since there doesn't seem to be any crazy conditions down there. maybe while luffy is eating they will see that they have come for ace and then luffy will have to make a mad dash to level 6 to save ace.

Ivan must see what happens in level 6 since he actually knows a lot of pirates being put there. And it wouldn't have been mentioned in the newspaper regarding the purpose of level 6. And they have access to the communication network. That is probably ivans source of informations.

[Green Hair]

The most interesting thing for me about this chapter was the fact that Magellan seems to have some sort of sense of ethics. I mean, he stood up against the man who was reportedly as strong as him, because he didn't want to let him continue his murdering spree. Murdering prisoners, that is. Magellan seems to be on the opposite spectrum to the sadistic Shiryuu. I somehow had this feeling that Magellan wasn't an all-bully type boss.

Alas, it seems that Luffy will have to run to Marineford to save Ace.

Btw, what I don't get from the cover story, is Zoro saving the bird from the wolf, or is he trying to feed her with him?

[Hiroy]

foooooOOOOOOOOOOd!!

[Zkaiser]

@smurfx:

btw wouldn't it make sense for luffy's treatment to take up only half the time since his body is rubber? his body is much tougher than normal humans because it's rubber and luffy's will is enormous so that helps a lot too. that might be why iva miscalculated luffy's treatment. btw do you think iva can see into level 6 with that den den mushi? we know you can't look into level 5 since it's freezing but the guards should have access to level 6 since there doesn't seem to be any crazy conditions down there. maybe while luffy is eating they will see that they have come for ace and then luffy will have to make a mad dash to level 6 to save ace.

i do wonder how oda will handle this. maybe their role will be to escape and take out the marines surrounding impel down? will oda really tease us and not have all the prisoners riot in impel down?

Where'd you get that avatar?

[Shishi-O]

@Zkaiser:

Where'd you get that avatar?

haha i forgot to say awesome avi =)

[Zkaiser]

@Shishi-O:

haha i forgot to say awesome avi =)

Thank's.:happy:

I made it yesterday.

[smurfx]

@Zkaiser:

Where'd you get that avatar?

[Zkaiser]

Thanks man.

[silvers]

Omg that video is so freakin' awesome

[Ace_san_is_awesome]

This chapter was FREAKIN AWESOME MAN!!!!! HE'S BACK!!!!!! It broke my heart though when I saw Ace-san. Awww, he really cares for his little brother ^_^ Sorry, that's my fan-girl-ness talking lol.

[smurfx]

wonder what buggy and mr 3 are up to right now. buggy is a smart guy so he must know that if he releases a bunch of level 5 prisoners they will cause such a disruption in impel down that it will help him get out easily. if luffy defeats magellan then you can expect a massive riot to break out in the jail.

anybody want this gif for their sig or something?

[DemonX]

Nice gif smurfx ^^

A-W-E-S-O-M-E chapter is all I gotta say.
Not really a suprise Luffy healed in time [or did he? xD], but reading the chap really gave me goose bumps :).

[mgear]

We can say literally that soon "all Hell will break loose."

Someone else might have said this, but the monitors will allow Luffy and others to know that they are coming to pick Ace up and to stop them. This means that we probably wont' have the situation where Luffy gets to level 6 and realizes Ace is gone.

[Jadosra]

@DarkHamster:

I was so hoping there wasn't Level 6. I mean they put Luffy in level 5 after he was poisoned so what? Croc > Luffy? ARGH!!! Well I guess since Luffy was already dying it would be pointless, but still ARGGH!!

The other thing is the fact that he's going to lose 10 years of his life, it's bad enough that the gears take such a toll on his body now this? Will he live long enough to even make it to Pirate King? If Luffy dies right when he becomes PK I will so p***ed.

But all in all good chapter, though I found the April Fools plot better. I liked the fruit in it better too. Whatevs.

I don't think Mallegan locked away siryuu I think the world government put him in level 6 to keep the news of what he does away from the public.

As much as it costs, Luffy isn't in the same level as the Shichibukai's.

My view on the Final bosses of each saga:

He defeated Crocodile and Moria due to luck and being underestimated.
If Crocodile didn't underestimate him in his first battle, Luffy would die.
If Crocodile didn't underestimate him in his second battle, Luffy would die.
If Crocodile didn't underestimate him and ask him why he keeps battling instead of being concentrated on the battle, Luffy would die.

If Moria didn't underestimate him and fall RIGHT IN THE POSITION HE FELL, Luffy (and the SH's) would die.

Enel is in the limbo between villains like Lucci and villain's like Crocodile.
Luffy had the luck of being a Rubberman, but Enel still gave a epic fight, even though he lost in the end.

Lucci was also defeated Fair and Square, in a epic battle.

And Arlong was defeated Fair and Square, once again, in a epic battle.

[onemoment]

Maase, you enrage like no other.

Nah, mostly the reason Luffy was on level 5 is convenience. He was defeated by Magellan, dropped on the lower level, and escaped before he could be processed. It's completely different from Croc who was defeated, captured, and shipped to Impel Down.

Edit: I'm also disappointed. Level 6 is lamer then I imagined it being. It's just "the bottom level" with the only intimidating part being some strong guy killing the prisoners.

[Zkaiser]

@onemoment:

Maase, you enrage like no other.

Nah, mostly the reason Luffy was on level 5 is convenience. He was defeated by Magellan, dropped on the lower level, and escaped before he could be processed. It's completely different from Croc who was defeated, captured, and shipped to Impel Down.

Edit: I'm also disappointed. Level 6 is lamer then I imagined it being. It's just "the bottom level" with the only intimidating part being some strong guy killing the prisoners.

What did you expect it to be.

[brennen.exe]

@Maase:

As much as it costs, Luffy isn't in the same level as the Shichibukai's.

I hate you.

@Maase:

If Crocodile didn't underestimate him and ask him why he keeps battling instead of being concentrated on the battle, Luffy would die.

Except, no. Luffy won that last one fair and square. Oda had Luffy overcome his obstacles by force of will and determination. That's who Luffy is. He (Oda) doesn't just simply have Luffy roll 777. Otherwise there would be absolutely no growth for Luffy, just a string of fortune.

@Maase:

If Moria didn't underestimate him and fall RIGHT IN THE POSITION HE FELL, Luffy (and the SH's) would die.

If Luffy didn't underestimate Moria he would never have lost his shadow in the first place, which means no Oz, which means Moria would have had his ass handed to him. You can throw "ifs" around all day, but the fact remains the same that Luffy beat Moria fair and square in every category: strength, will, resources, etc.

@onemoment:

Nah, mostly the reason Luffy was on level 5 is convenience. He was defeated by Magellan, dropped on the lower level, and escaped before he could be processed.

Nahh, Luffy was tossed in Level 5 because it is the appropriate location given his bounty. He wasn't going to be processed because he was left in Level 5 to die. Luffy needs to be erased from the world for the things he has done, so in any other circumstance he would likely have been Level 6.

[GoustiFruit]

Now I expect to see a flashback for Bon Chan :-D
And hope we'll see the meeting between him and Robin, former Baroque Works agents !

[KzTxL7]

@brennen.exe:

Except, no. Luffy won that last one fair and square. Oda had Luffy overcome his obstacles by force of will and determination. That's who Luffy is. He (Oda) doesn't just simply have Luffy roll 777. Otherwise there would be absolutely no growth for Luffy, just a string of fortune.

I agree he won against Crocodile in the final fight fair and square, but Oda did cheapen it for Luffy by making Crocodile not use any of his Sand Abilities until the exact very end of the fight. The blood just allowed Luffy to hit Crocodile, it didn't stop him from using sand abilities.

[onemoment]

@Zkaiser:

What did you expect it to be.

Well, I was expecting this floor to be a cavern containing a swarm of inhuman, near unholy prisoners that where more monsters then men. That a breakout from this place would unleash a nightmarish mob of prisoner that would tear the place apart. Basically, I expected monsters and fear. Instead it's a fairly normal stone prison, without the discomforts of "burning hell" or "freezing hell."

Instead, it sounds like this floor is filled with the same faceless victims (as shown being killed by Shiryu (sp) with a few important characters just like every other floor (for example, level 1 had Buggy, two had Mr. 3, meanwhile level 6 has Croc, Ace, Jimbei, and those guys Iva mentioned).

It's only distinction right now it that "prisoners are kept for life and executed," yet isn't that also happening on the other floors? Does Impel Down actually let pirates go after serving a sentence? I can't imagine that after all the torture they put people through. We've also seen it heavily implied that people are dying all over the place.

I mean, I'm sure there's something that makes this place worse then freezing hell, but I can't see it yet.

@KzTxL7:

I agree he won against Crocodile in the final fight fair and square, but Oda did cheapen it for Luffy by making Crocodile not use any of his Sand Abilities until the exact very end of the fight. The blood just allowed Luffy to hit Crocodile, it didn't stop him from using sand abilities.

I might regret this, but I'm going to try it anyway…

If you think about it, Luffy countered Croc's sand moves in previous fights. It's not like Croc chose to handicap himself, he just didn't have room for them in his current strategy.

[Zkaiser]

@onemoment:

Well, I was expecting this floor to be a cavern containing a swarm of inhuman, near unholy prisoners that where more monsters then men. That a breakout from this place would unleash a nightmarish mob of prisoner that would tear the place apart. Basically, I expected monsters and fear. Instead it's a fairly normal stone prison, without the discomforts of "burning hell" or "freezing hell."

Instead, it sounds like this floor is filled with the same faceless victims (as shown being killed by Shiryu (sp) with a few important characters just like every other floor (for example, level 1 had Buggy, two had Mr. 3, meanwhile level 6 has Croc, Ace, Jimbei, and those guys Iva mentioned).

It's only distinction right now it that "prisoners are kept for life and executed," yet isn't that also happening on the other floors? Does Impel Down actually let pirates go after serving a sentence? I can't imagine that after all the torture they put people through. We've also seen it heavily implied that people are dying all over the place.

I mean, I'm sure there's something that makes this place worse then freezing hell, but I can't see it yet.

That was a flashback when he was killing regular people. We have yet to see the full body of LEVEL 6 yet. Though I believe that it will be something lame like: LEVEL 6 - ETERNAL FEAR AND DARKNESS HELL.

[CodedTech]

This post is deleted!

[brennen.exe]

@Zkaiser:

Though I believe that it will be something lame like: LEVEL 6 - ETERNAL FEAR AND DARKNESS HELL.

You must have missed it in the chapter: LEVEL 6, the "Infinite Hell"

[Jadosra]

Ahahahah, just as I expected, thousands of Wolves attacking me, while actually expecting Luffy, a Rookie in the sea, to be the same level as the Shichibukai, 7 warriors of the Sea that were chosen by the World Government.

This would be enough to counter the arguments, but I'l go through every post, because I have time to waste…

@onemoment:

Maase, you enrage like no other.

The truth hurts.

Nah, mostly the reason Luffy was on level 5 is convenience. He was defeated by Magellan, dropped on the lower level, and escaped before he could be processed. It's completely different from Croc who was defeated, captured, and shipped to Impel Down.

I don't agree…
He was defeated in Level 4, if it was for convenience, why would they put him in Level 5?
If he doesn't mind going to Level 5, he shouldn't mind going to Level 6 either.

@brennen.exe:

I hate you.

Truth hurts, hun?

Except, no. Luffy won that last one fair and square. Oda had Luffy overcome his obstacles by force of will and determination. That's who Luffy is. He (Oda) doesn't just simply have Luffy roll 777. Otherwise there would be absolutely no growth for Luffy, just a string of fortune.

First of all: Even if he did win the last fight fair and square, Crocodile would still be proven better than Luffy, as Luffy had Robin, Tashigi and Pell helping Luffy, while Crocodile wasn't helped by no one, and defeated him easily 2 times.

And now to the main argument: But it was ALL a string of fortune.
I agree that without his huge will, Luffy would've died, but without luck, Luffy would've died, or even if he didn't, he wouldn't be able to defeat Crocodile.
Crocodile underestimated Luffy in the last battle, as simple as that, he still could've used all the attacks he used in the first battle except "Desert Girassole" (I mean, he could use it, but it wouldn't have the same effect it did on the first battle), he was just joking around, while truly amazed over the spirit of Luffy.
Only in the end, he understood that Luffy was actually getting REALLY dangerous, and not only had resistance, but power.
Crocodile then used that huge explosion thing, it wasn't enough, but its obvious that a little more would at least make Luffy fall.

If Luffy didn't underestimate Moria he would never have lost his shadow in the first place, which means no Oz, which means Moria would have had his ass handed to him. You can throw "ifs" around all day, but the fact remains the same that Luffy beat Moria fair and square in every category: strength, will, resources, etc.

Hun? Since when, Luffy didn't know there were Spider Monkeys around there, as simple as that. It has nothing to do with Moria.
Also, I like how you say "Moria would have had his ass handed to him", when Luffy didn't manage to hit Moria more than once in the battle between them, and Moria just didn't destroy him easily because he was lazy and mocking Luffy. (Once again, proving my point)
And Luffy didn't beat Moria fair and square, Fair and Square would be: Moria VS Luffy only using their abilities.
Luffy couldn't be Nightmare Luffy, because that's technically a abillity of Moria.

And besides, even using Nightmare Luffy and giving Moria punches, he was lucky that Moria got angry out of nowhere and decided to use maximum force (simmilar to Crocodile), getting 1000 Shadows to show off, making him easy to be attacked with the Jet Giant Shell.

Also, even if Moria would've been defeated, it was FUCKING LUCKY that he fell RIGHT IN THE MAIN MAST, one more second and Luffy would die.

So no, it was NOT FAIR AND SQUARE AT ALL!!!

Nahh, Luffy was tossed in Level 5 because it is the appropriate location given his bounty. He wasn't going to be processed because he was left in Level 5 to die. Luffy needs to be erased from the world for the things he has done, so in any other circumstance he would likely have been Level 6.

That's actually a good argument that I didn't think about.
Well, this one I can't argument, I do agree that in "Bounty" question, he is enough for Level 6, he got against the World and defeated 2 Shichibukai's.
However, in power, he would be defeated easily by the Shichibukai's anyways.

@onemoment:

I might regret this, but I'm going to try it anyway…

lol

If you think about it, Luffy countered Croc's sand moves in previous fights. It's not like Croc chose to handicap himself, he just didn't have room for them in his current strategy.

Luffy didn't counter all the floor being destroyed (and he wouldn't counter it in the situation he was)
He also wouldn't counter being turned into a Mummy, as he had no water to use if he got that way.
He didn't counter that attack (Sarbles, I believe) in the third battle, and if Crocodile used it in the beginning, when he was still "fresh", he would have a lot more chances.
Luffy was in a closed space, too, so Desert Spada would be a lot harder to counter there.

And Crocodile has probably a lot more attacks we didn't see, however, even if he didn't, what he showed us would be enough

[brennen.exe]

@CodedTech:

Though I suppose no point in me replying as it's obvious you're clinging to your assumption as "facts" (given your "ifs" comment.)

Well that was rude…

@CodedTech:

What could Luffy have done any differently? He was outright fooled by Moria.

He what? How? He was being an idiot running around in a full suit of armor! He only got captured because of that and the fact that he was ogling Jigoro. Are you suggesting he couldn't have escaped otherwise? Gear 2nd? Gear 3rd? It was just a setup so that he would have his shadow stolen. It's just the way the story played out. Luffy never takes things serious until the very end.

@CodedTech:

Aside from that, you're assuming Luffy would've made quick game of Moria without Oz. For one he could always have done Shadows Asgard, aside from that we didn't see much from "base" Moria to really judge (just him casually evading Sanji's Diable Jamble and stealing Robin's shadow.)

Shadows Asgard was an act of desperation. He shouldn't have used it. The crew was already half beaten to death from other things (Oz included). Lest we not forget, Brook had already been pissed on by Ryuma, Zoro had fought with Ryuma, Robin had been using her fluer's all day (wings and such), Sanji had been stabbed and taken blows for saving Nami, etc., etc. The truth of the matter is Moria and his crew had all the advantages: location, numbers, shadows, plan, etc. Yet the Strawhats still outclassed them. All of them. Even Oz was taken out via group effort. And it's not like Oz was even remotely tired – being a zombie and all. Moria was knocked out prior to Shadows Asgard.

[Jane Doe]

it seems that Luffy's basic instinct for food overcomes any obsticles….not his willpower

[brennen.exe]

@Maase:

Thousands of Wolves attacking me.

Thanks for the compliment.

@Maase:

Truth hurts, hun?

Wait, are you hitting on me now?

[Jadosra]

@brennen.exe:

He what? How? He was being an idiot running around in a full suit of armor! He only got captured because of that and the fact that he was ogling Jigoro. Are you suggesting he couldn't have escaped otherwise? Gear 2nd? Gear 3rd? It was just a setup so that he would have his shadow stolen. It's just the way the story played out. Luffy never takes things serious until the very end.

Are you suggesting he could run from the Spider Monkey using Gear 2/3? I agree, but how would he know where they came from? Unless he used Gear 2/3 and walked around in the castle.

Shadows Asgard was an act of desperation. He shouldn't have used it. The crew was already half beaten to death from other things (Oz included). Lest we not forget Brook had already pissed on by Ryuma, Zoro had fought with Ryuma, Robin had been using her fluer's all day (wings and such), Sanji had been stabbed and taken blows for saving Nami, etc., etc. The truth of the matter is Moria and his crew had all the advantages: location, numbers, shadows, plan, etc. Yet the Strawhats still outclassed them. All of them. Even Oz was taken out via group effort. And it's not like Oz was even remotely tired – being a zombie and all. Moria was knocked out prior to Shadows Asgard.

Shadow Asgard was not a act of desperation, Moria got his honour tarnished by a Rookie coming out of nowhere being able to take 100 of his shadows.
He decided to use 1000 to show him he's 10 times better, making matters worse, as 100 would be enough to defeat Luffy at the moment, and wouldn't cost as many energy.
Also, you're talking as if Moria wouldn't have avoided the crew easily, he was pretty much in advantage, he could casually avoid everything and have dual powers at the same time, and everytime the shadow get's hit, it just comes back, Moria would do easily what he did to Luffy to the entire crew, weak or not.
I don't get what do you mean by "Advantage in Location, Numbers, Shadows and Plan."

The Location didn't matter at all, in fact, if you're going by that argument, isn't it the opposite? The crew defeated Oz due to the location where they were, yet they didn't use anything at their advantage.
It didn't really matter which location they were, it wasn't advange from neither sides.

Numbers didn't really matter, it wouldn't change the numbers they had as most of them were only fodder, except some of them who were defeated by Oz at the beginning.
The only thing the numbers were for was for Shadow's Asgard, but its all part of the ability of Moria, so I can't really see what you mean with "advantage", in fact, it ended up being a con.

Shadows = See numbers.

Plan: What plan, lol?

[Zkaiser]

@brennen.exe:

You must have missed it in the chapter: LEVEL 6, the "Infinite Hell"

Huh, I guess I did miss it. My prediction was pretty close though.

[Skewt]

So what exactly is the point of this argument? That Crocodile despite ultimately losing to Luffy, is still stronger? Seems kind of moot, he had his chance, he failed to come out on top.

Your perception of Luffys ability is completely shaped by Oda's storytelling style. He doesn't like the one and done final fight. So Oda made his main character quite fallable in that his first response to any enemy is to just punch it till it falls down which typically serves him well. Then he introduces villians that are either not affected or can overcome his typical come out swinging response.

Crocodiles arrogance was his undoing, but at this point Luffy has become strong and fast enough that I think a rematch would be pretty one sided. Luffy still knows how to hit him, and now he hits that much harder.

[Robby]

Luffy beat Moria with sheer tenacity and willpower. Luffy was completley unconscious at the end of the battle, and in terms of actual power, skill, setup, and actually winning the fight, Moria had won. If Luffy had set out 5 seconds later or a cloud had shifted just a little bit, Luffy, Zoro, Robin and Sanji would all have been killed by the sun. If Luffy hadn't been granted 100 shadows power up, Odz likely would not have been defeated. (The other TB victims all said they could only hold a few shadows themselves, Luffy was the first to hold that many.)

But. Luffys sheer will and determination to not give up won the day. At the end, its what pissed Moria off and made him use that final desperation move, when Moria really, REALLY didn't need to. The fight had been won. Moria could have hidden for a couple minutes and the sun would have finished the job. But Luffy's sheer ass-kickerness tenacity pissed Moria of, showed Luffy to be the better class of person, to the point Moria started fighting stupid, because his ego was broken by this little upstarts' sheer tenacity. Same thing happened with Croc, whod killed Luffy twice already! Luffy's determination to beat him pissed him off so much that at the end, Croc said "Screw it, we'll fight man to man and I'll prove this once and for all."

On a normal day, against any other rubberman, either Croc or Moria (or even Enel for that matter, even with the weakness in play) should have been able to beat Luffy, especially with their home team advantage setups. They have broken, sheer overpowering POWER, But Luffy defies odds because he's LUFFY, he's got that much WILL. (Even with Enel, a lesser rubberman might have given up after being knocked off the flying ship, as opposed to running up a giant beanstalk with a huge gold ball on his hand. It wasn't JUST the rubber power that had luffy win that one.) Same thing is happening with this poison. He doesn't beat his opponents with luck. He doesn't beat them will skill. He doesn't beat them with strength. He uses all those things, yes, but ultimatley, he beats them down with his determination to keep going and never stop, his AMBITION of a KING, if you will.

(NOT a haki raference and leave it as "ambition of a king". that sounds way more badass and face it, in the contet I'm using, its what I mean.)

[Zkaiser]

@robbybevard:

Luffy beat Moria with sheer tenacity and willpower. Luffy was completely unconscious at the end of the battle, and in terms of actual power, skill, setup, and actually winning the fight, Moria had won. If Luffy had set out 5 seconds later or a cloud had shifted just a little bit, Luffy, Zoro, Robin and Sanji would all have been killed by the sun. If Luffy hadn't been granted 100 shadows power up, Odz likely would not have been defeated. (The other TB victims all said they could only hold a few shadows themselves, Luffy was the first to hold that many.)

But. Luffys sheer will and determination to not give up won the day. At the end, its what pissed Moria off and made him use that final desperation move, when Moria really, REALLY didn't need to. The fight had been won. Moria could have hidden for a couple minutes and the sun would have finished the job. But Luffy's sheer ass-kickerness tenacity pissed Moria of, showed Luffy to be the better class of person, to the point Moria started fighting stupid, because his ego was broken by this little upstarts' sheer tenacity. Same thing happened with Croc, who'd killed Luffy twice already! Luffy's determination to beat him pissed him off so much that at the end, Croc said "Screw it, we'll fight man to man and I'll prove this once and for all."

On a normal day, against any other rubberman, either Croc or Moria (or even Enel for that matter, even with the weakness in play) should have been able to beat Luffy, especially with their home team advantage setups. They have broken, sheer overpowering POWER, But Luffy defies odds because he's LUFFY, he's got that much WILL. (Even with Enel, a lesser rubberman might have given up after being knocked off the flying ship, as opposed to running up a giant beanstalk with a huge gold ball on his hand. It wasn't JUST the rubber power that had luffy win that one.) Same thing is happening with this poison. He doesn't beat his opponents with luck. He doesn't beat them will skill. He doesn't beat them with strength. He uses all those things, yes, but ultimately, he beats them down with his determination to keep going and never stop, his AMBITION of a KING, if you will.

(NOT a haki reference and leave it as "ambition of a king". that sounds way more badass and face it, in the context I'm using, its what I mean.)

And this my friends is the theme of One Piece. So stop bitching about it.

[brennen.exe]

Sighhhhhhhhhhhh; I've really just been baiting you, but I guess I actually want to reply to this a bit. However, this is all off-topic, so I will move my post somewhere else. –-> Here <–-

[TLC]

@robbybevard:

Luffy beat Moria with sheer tenacity and willpower. Luffy was completley unconscious at the end of the battle, and in terms of actual power, skill, setup, and actually winning the fight, Moria had won. If Luffy had set out 5 seconds later or a cloud had shifted just a little bit, Luffy, Zoro, Robin and Sanji would all have been killed by the sun. If Luffy hadn't been granted 100 shadows power up, Odz likely would not have been defeated. (The other TB victims all said they could only hold a few shadows themselves, Luffy was the first to hold that many.)

But. Luffys sheer will and determination to not give up won the day. At the end, its what pissed Moria off and made him use that final desperation move, when Moria really, REALLY didn't need to. The fight had been won. Moria could have hidden for a couple minutes and the sun would have finished the job. But Luffy's sheer ass-kickerness tenacity pissed Moria of, showed Luffy to be the better class of person, to the point Moria started fighting stupid, because his ego was broken by this little upstarts' sheer tenacity. Same thing happened with Croc, whod killed Luffy twice already! Luffy's determination to beat him pissed him off so much that at the end, Croc said "Screw it, we'll fight man to man and I'll prove this once and for all."

On a normal day, against any other rubberman, either Croc or Moria (or even Enel for that matter, even with the weakness in play) should have been able to beat Luffy, especially with their home team advantage setups. They have broken, sheer overpowering POWER, But Luffy defies odds because he's LUFFY, he's got that much WILL. (Even with Enel, a lesser rubberman might have given up after being knocked off the flying ship, as opposed to running up a giant beanstalk with a huge gold ball on his hand. It wasn't JUST the rubber power that had luffy win that one.) Same thing is happening with this poison. He doesn't beat his opponents with luck. He doesn't beat them will skill. He doesn't beat them with strength. He uses all those things, yes, but ultimatley, he beats them down with his determination to keep going and never stop, his AMBITION of a KING, if you will.

(NOT a haki raference and leave it as "ambition of a king". that sounds way more badass and face it, in the contet I'm using, its what I mean.)

Yep, completely agree with this post. It's not Luffy's rubber power that makes him so strong. It's his ambition and will power that truly gives him such monstrous power. Against all odds, Luffy never gives up. He keeps coming and coming and won't stop unless he dies. It's not a normal person who can constantly fly into the face of death with no fear and just keep fighting with every ounce of strength he/she has and that's why he's beaten so many strong opponents in the past.

[ponx]

About the 10 years lifespan cut. Though i have just a little knowledge in biology, but I know that body cells have "age"'. Youth is when cells are the most productive in regenerating, and then they keep regenerating less and less (thats why we grow weaker as we age). So by forcing Luffy's body cell regeneration into a rapid state, Iva reduced the cell's age. Techically, I think the process will make u look older, but this is manga.

[Zik]

LOL @ ppl making excuses for why Luffy isn't in lvl 6

SMH @ ppl coming to the conclusion that Croc > Luffy because he's in lvl 6 and Luffy isn't. It's like you ppl didn't read the chap at all. PPL have to stop thinking like this, that train of thought is just stupid and outdated. Just doesn't apply to this manga.

LOL @ the Croc & Luffy fight being argued AGAIN hahaha.

Why this is even that much a topic of debate is sad.

Also where does it say that Shiryu was killing prisoners on lvl 6? Assuming that is stupid. He was taken to lvl 6 after he massacred some prisoners, that either indicates his strength or the fact that the WB/marines wanted to cover him up(the latter works since not many know who he even is).

I think everyone should read the chap a couple more times for a better understanding lol, plus its really good.

[FireFistAce 0]

So here's a question. Ivankov mentions this guy ate a tunneling fruit. Why would there be a tunneling fruit AND the Mogu Mogu fruit? That seems kind of redundant. It'd be like having a fruit that grants flight, rendering the flying zoans redundant as well. Oh well. I doubt this fruit will ever be elaborated on in detail. Maybe in Movie 10, since I'm 99% sure that the tunneling fruit guy was key to Golden Shiki escaping Impel Down.

[brennen.exe]

LOL @ Zik
SMH @ Zik

No but seriously, chapter was really good. The spoilers didn't do it justice. Makes me wonder about a few things though, and essentially I guess I have one idea how this might play out. Obviously (well, I think) Luffy will go to Level 6. I mean Iva-san is preparing us to go there, but the timing is what makes me wonder. As of this moment, Luffy seems to be on relatively the same time schedule as Magellan/Domino in the sense that they are both about to be heading down to Level 6. The thing that makes me wonder though is the amount of enemies we have lined up right now. I mean obviously there has to be some dialog between Croc, Luffy, Ace, and Jinbei, but what about fights and such? I don't expect there to be loads of fights, per se, but in terms of potential to definite villains we are looking at: Magellan, M. Bison, Sadi-chan, Prison Beasts, and Hannyabal. Give or take some more that might or might not get in the way. I really wonder how this is going to play out.

One idea that crosses my mind is that Luffy reaches Level 6 at roughly the same time, so they (ID staff) nabs Ace and high tails it to the surface. Luffy releases Jinbei, fights M. Bison, and then pursues them. On the way up Mr. 3 and Buggy free Mr. 1 and then get dragged in to the chase. Or…no, I dunno. Dammit, why can't these chapters be released faster~!

[1010011010]

@Fire Fist:

So here's a question. Ivankov mentions this guy ate a tunneling fruit. Why would there be a tunneling fruit AND the Mogu Mogu fruit? That seems kind of redundant. It'd be like having a fruit that grants flight, rendering the flying zoans redundant as well. Oh well. I doubt this fruit will ever be elaborated on in detail. Maybe in Movie 10, since I'm 99% sure that the tunneling fruit guy was key to Golden Shiki escaping Impel Down.

maybe it's more complicated like tori tori turns you into a bird thus makes you fly becuase of wings

but the flying fruit lets you fly by some other means which could also have other uses eg. make something your holding fly/weightless

as for mole vs tunnleing, tunnleing could let you tunnle through anything.

[Phoenix Zoan]

Luffy and co should reach L6 first. Depends on how long Luffy eats for but they are right below L6. They should get there maybe faster using the tunnels. Magellan is still taking a shit in L4. So he maybe there for a few hours until he's done.

[Captain Shmeckie]

Hey, I am all for an M. Bison reference character. ;)

[Robby]

@Fire Fist:

So here's a question. Ivankov mentions this guy ate a tunneling fruit. Why would there be a tunneling fruit AND the Mogu Mogu fruit? That seems kind of redundant. It'd be like having a fruit that grants flight, rendering the flying zoans redundant as well. Oh well. I doubt this fruit will ever be elaborated on in detail. Maybe in Movie 10, since I'm 99% sure that the tunneling fruit guy was key to Golden Shiki escaping Impel Down.

Dalton turns into a bull and Kaku turns into a giraffe. Why would there be two versions of a cattle fruit? Because the difference is in the details.

Just because a fruit CAN dig or fly, doesn't mean its the exact same thing as another fruit that can also dig or fly. Heck, look at Buggy. As long as his feet are on the ground, HE can fly, but thats certainley nowhere near the same as Pell turning into a bird, which is not the same as Kizaru turning into a beam of light and zapping around to the top of a building, which is not the same as sheer flying as Golden Lion could apparently do.

We know almost nothing about this digging fruit, except that it was able to create a massive secret underground base… which isn't quite the same as the mole fruit digging holes for 10 feet at a time to appear behind an opponent.

Mole CAN dig, but that doesn't mean its the main or best ability of the fruit.