am I the only one who thinks that BB having a second DF is related to his own darkness logia DF?
I think because of his strange body and the Yami².
am I the only one who thinks that BB having a second DF is related to his own darkness logia DF?
I think because of his strange body and the Yami².
@Monkey:
The "them" line in Jaya is just strange. I originally took it to mean they somehow figured out Jesus and Doc Q were with him or something.
But I dunno. It's far from confirmation of the wierd ass Cerberus theory.
Its more of a confirmation for the multiple persons theory, which can be a result of the cerberus ability.
In other words, multiple persons because of the three different cerberus persons.
Thats just speculation though of course
4.Teach's obsession with the number "3".
This point isn't as strong as the others, but it needs to be addressed too.
Obviously Teach has a knack for the number "3".
-Three Headed jolly roger.
-Three pistols
-Obsession with the three fates (past, present, future)And I forgot the others.
The RL Blackbeard (Edward Teach/Thatch) has also been divided into 3 characters : Marshal D. Teach, and the ones he stole the devil fruit from, Edward Newgate and Thatch.
I was a fan of the cerberus theory for a while, now i don't really care, though the way i saw it the possible cerberus fruit was what allowed him to have more than one and the yami yami no mi more of an extraction method.
Its a well known fact that Blackbeard is more than one person. When Luffy and Zoro agreed that Teach was "they", not "he", this fact became rather apparent. While I do not intend to further theorize upon Blackbeard, I would like to bring up some rather interesting information regarding Blackbeard's teeth.
– Blackbeard has at least two different teeth configurations
1. 2 teeth missing on the top, one tooth seperates the gaps) bottom ( one tooth missing at the mid bottom jaw)
2. 2 teeth missing on the top, 2 teeth missing on the bottom
-- In all the flashback panels his face directly appears in, a non existing tooth pattern appears; Luffy remember's blackbeard teeth incorrectly when confronting BB in Impel Down, Sen Goku imagines Blackbeard with a full set of teeth when raiding Impel Down.
-- When confronting Luffy, Ace, and Bonny, Blackbeard's Teeth are in the config 1
-- When he is with only with his crewmate's, his teeth appear in config 2
-- Before Blackbeard takes White Beard's fruit he is config 2. Afterward, when using his newly obtained power, his teeth take on config 1
It should also be noted that as the series goes on, Blackbeard's appears to become more manic and power hungry. Compare Blackbeard's Dream Speech at Jaya to Blackbeard's confrontation at Impel Down to see what I mean.
Check chapters 223, 225, 234, 235,236, 440, 441, 542, 543, 549, 576, 577, 578, 579, and 595. These chapter include the majority of Blackbeard's appearances. You'll see what I see if you look closely.
Its a well known fact that Blackbeard is more than one person.
No it's not dingus lol.
Blackbeard has at least two different teeth configurations
…..
Check chapters 223, 225, 234, 235,236, 440, 441, 542, 543, 549, 576, 577, 578, 579, and 595. These chapter include the majority of Blackbeard's appearances. You'll see what I see if you look closely.
Yeah…..no. Oda's just inconsistent with Blackbeard's teeth. Purely an art matter.
That was an assumption on my part, but I feel it is rather apparent at this point. Did you even read what I had to say?
Anyways, like you said, Oda could just happen to be inconsistent with Blackbeard's teeth. If Oda had made one or two mistake with the teeth, I would whole-heartedly agree with you. However, I cannot see this to be the case– Oda has made at least ten or more mistakes in this matter. As I already said, there are definitely two teeth configs that have appeared more than once in the manga. My theory is that the large amount of inconsistency exist because of Oda has difficulty with remembering the visual differences between Teach and his 'alter egos'. Please don't scoff at the idea unless you've seen all of Teach's appearances.
That was an assumption on my part, but I feel it is rather apparent at this point. Did you even read what I had to say?
Yes, that Oda meticulously counts Blackbeard's teeth whenever he draws them lol.
Teeth are a really unimportant part of the body and therefore Oda won't control it each time. He even made mistakes with scars and as such it can't count as evidence.
And there are two different interpretations of Luffy and Zoros statement.
Teeth are a really unimportant part of the body and therefore Oda won't control it each time. He even made mistakes with scars and as such it can't count as evidence.
And there are two different interpretations of Luffy and Zoros statement.
Yeah…..no. Oda's just inconsistent with Blackbeard's teeth. Purely an art matter.
Only those mistakes with scars were one time things. I feel like if it was a mistake, he would've caught it early on and intentionally start following a standard regarding Blackbeard's teeth. The fact that it continued to happen and continues to happen makes it seem like that the teeth changes are intentional. Somebody must have noticed the mistake early on and informed him about it, theres no way he doesn't know that its happening. The fact that he (most likely) knows that its happening and continues to draw the teeth changes puts the odds in favor of intentional teeth changes.
Teeth are a really unimportant part of the body and therefore Oda won't control it each time. He even made mistakes with scars and as such it can't count as evidence.
And there are two different interpretations of Luffy and Zoros statement.The second interpretation of it is weak in my opinion.
Do you really think Luffy and Zoro have the intellectual fortitude needed to make that assumption? Both have little to no streetsmarts, I doubt either of them could make a deduction like that. Plus they both know exactly what the other person is thinking. They even finish each others sentence.
I think its very unlikely that both of them automatically read each others mind, and came to the conclusion that Jesus and Doc Q we're Teach's nakama.
Not to mention, the entire island was full of pirates and strong people (Bellamy and co, Roshio, etc.). I don't see how they could have so much confidence in each others thoughts to both simultaneously come to the same conclusion that Teach was with Jesus and Doc Q.Also, they were talking to Teach about Teach. Nami asked about Teach himself, it only makes sense for them to answer about Teach himself. Why would they make the jump between talking about Teach himself to talking about his crew (which at this point they had no way of knowing for sure he even had a crew), and then not even give confirmation to Nami when she further probes the question.
Answering "Yes, he has nakama with him." Would have been totally acceptable at the time, and yet Zoro and Luffy ignored her attempt to probe their statement about him being "they".
yeah I remember this theory.. for example when Teach showed himself up in the war, there were total of 4 teeth missing each 2 at upper jaw and lower jaw. the places of teeths missing were exactly the same, consistent for several panels, Until he obtained Gura Gura no mi. then the number of teeth missing were total three with two on the upper jaw, at the same place and one at down left jaw, then it was consistent like that for another several panels.. surely we could think it's just oda being little careless, i mean who the hack cares but since there are many similar theories bout him (having more than one body), its a legit theory
and you gotta check to believe this theory… it may sound complete nonsense before you see it
Do you really think Luffy and Zoro have the intellectual fortitude needed to make that assumption? Both have little to no streetsmarts, I doubt either of them could make a deduction like that. Plus they both know exactly what the other person is thinking. They even finish each others sentence. I think its very unlikely that both of them automatically read each others mind, and came to the conclusion that Jesus and Doc Q we're Teach's nakama.
I didn't see that last sentence coming, lol. You think it's far-fetched that they recognized Blackbeard wasn't alone, but find it acceptable that they both identified multiple-personality-weird-body-ate-my-brother-in-the-womb features on him?
This is some loose change type shit. Seeing deeper meaning in things like teeth placement is just hilarious
I didn't see that last sentence coming, lol. You think it's far-fetched that they recognized Blackbeard wasn't alone, but find it acceptable that they both identified multiple-personality-weird-body-ate-my-brother-in-the-womb features on him?
It's too wierd a thing to have nobody else ever mention like that.
Like Blackbeard and Luffy ran into eachother again, and people with surely more developed Haki referred to him, and no one ever said "they".
I don't have the Viz Vol.56, but going off the common online scans it's pretty straightforward.
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-543/page-13
"You I met you at Jaya".
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-543/page-14
"You're Blackbeard?"
Considering that they'd already run into Doc Q and saw Burgess running around rooftops like a moron, it seems more likely that Zoro and Luffy just guessed that there was a connection between the three guys that were twice as tall as everybody else on the island.
Considering that they'd already run into Doc Q and saw Burgess running around rooftops like a moron, it seems more likely that Zoro and Luffy just guessed that there was a connection between the three guys that were twice as tall as everybody else on the island.
Even if they didn't make the connection, just judging by the things Blackbeard was saying at the time, no one who isn't a pirate would say those things like that, and talking so ambitiously about dreams it was somewhat clear that Teach was after the same dream Luffy was or something very similar and therefore was a pirate with his own crew.
Even if it does eventually turn out that teach is "multiple people" or something like that I don't think that was supposed to be implied in this scene.
Considering that they'd already run into Doc Q and saw Burgess running around rooftops like a moron, it seems more likely that Zoro and Luffy just guessed that there was a connection between the three guys that were twice as tall as everybody else on the island.
That's how I always read it.
I'm guessing if they had some super latent Haki senses going on, Blackbeard and gang would stand out like heeeelll on Jaya.
Also if they were weirded out by him, why only after being thrown out of the bar, and not when sitting next to him for minutes on end, and even arguing with him lol.
Overall though? What I really don't like about the theory, is it's just too damn random. Too strange in a non-One Piece way.
And especially in a non-Blackbeard way. I've always enjoyed the simple straight forwardness of the Blackbeard crew, there's something just well tailored about their designs and personalities. They really do feel like an evil version of the Strawhats because of that.
Throw in some bizarre Togashi style fucked up villain thing, on the laughing fat guy who loves pie….it feels wrong.
Yeah I once thought Blackbeard had some tiny intelligence to him, some semblance of forethought, like villains do, but after Impel Down I realize the guy is dumb as dirt. It's hard to believe the whole two fruits thing is anything more than dumb luck at this point.
Teeth are a really unimportant part of the body and therefore Oda won't control it each time. He even made mistakes with scars and as such it can't count as evidence.
I don't want to go to deep into this problem, but in western and eastern europe literature and mythology teeth do play a rathar important role. They either have the function of showing the moral condition of a person or serve as (secret) identification marc. It might be a different thing in japan - although: wasn't it common to colour the teeth black among young women?
I won't rule out the possibility of this teeth theory just because Oda have made some mistakes on the past, like he said it keeps happening over and over again, so there MIGHT be something more behind that mouth of BB and we're talking about a guy that is full of mysteries at the moment, so this being a shifting/growing kinda of thing, it will just get a explain later on or it won't get explain and this guy/girl is just looking to deep into BBs mouth
Teeth are a really unimportant part of the body and therefore Oda won't control it each time. He even made mistakes with scars and as such it can't count as evidence.
And there are two different interpretations of Luffy and Zoros statement.
Well he have made some mistakes throughout the serie but I don't believe that he will be making the same mistake over and over again and keep mind that Oda is always trowing stuff at us that at the time looks pretty simple but later on it turns out to be a pretty big thing
I didn't see that last sentence coming, lol. You think it's far-fetched that they recognized Blackbeard wasn't alone, but find it acceptable that they both identified multiple-personality-weird-body-ate-my-brother-in-the-womb features on him?
Not exactly. I recognize that both are just theories at this point, but I think the sensing of multiple beings within Blackbeard is less far fetched than both Luffy and Zoro arriving at the same conclusion that Jesus and Doc Q were with Blackbeard without consulting each other, all the while misleading Nami by immediately jumping from talking about Blackbeard himself to talking about his (possible) crew.
I think its far more likely that both of them could sense something was amiss with Blackbeard himself and that they addressed it in the proper context of the conversation that was taking place (the conversation about Blackbeard, not Blackbeards possible crew).
Plus, if they were referring to his crew, they had no reason to ignore Nami when she asked for confirmation that they were talking about his nakama.
I'm pro cerberus, but I think this panel is definitely hinting at multiple-persons, and I think the answer to how there are multiple persons is via cerberus.
@wolfwoof:
This is some loose change type shit. Seeing deeper meaning in things like teeth placement is just hilarious
Regardless of what it means, it seems like Oda is intentionally doing it.
Like I said earlier, I feel like if it was a mistake, he would've caught it early on and intentionally start following a standard regarding Blackbeard's teeth. The fact that it continued to happen and continues to happen makes it seem like that the teeth changes are intentional. Somebody must have noticed the mistake early on and informed him about it, theres no way he doesn't know that its happening. The fact that he (most likely) knows that its happening and continues to draw the teeth changes puts the odds in favor of intentional teeth changes.
@Monkey:
It's too wierd a thing to have nobody else ever mention like that.
Like Blackbeard and Luffy ran into eachother again, and people with surely more developed Haki referred to him, and no one ever said "they".
I don't have the Viz Vol.56, but going off the common online scans it's pretty straightforward.
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-543/page-13
"You I met you at Jaya".
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/One-Piece/One-Piece-543/page-14
"You're Blackbeard?"
If its multiple persons within one body, referring to Blackbeard as "you" is fine. "You" can include the multiple persons.
Considering that they'd already run into Doc Q and saw Burgess running around rooftops like a moron, it seems more likely that Zoro and Luffy just guessed that there was a connection between the three guys that were twice as tall as everybody else on the island.
If that was the case, they would have had no reason to ignore Nami's question.
Not to mention, that whole island was full of pirates (including Bellamy and co. Roshio, etc.). So coming to a conclusion like that would just be them pulling it out of their ass.
Even if they didn't make the connection, just judging by the things Blackbeard was saying at the time, no one who isn't a pirate would say those things like that, and talking so ambitiously about dreams it was somewhat clear that Teach was after the same dream Luffy was or something very similar and therefore was a pirate with his own crew.
Even if it does eventually turn out that teach is "multiple people" or something like that I don't think that was supposed to be implied in this scene.Re-read it then.
No matter how you look at it, it's obvious that something weird is being implied. The whole conversation and interaction was with and about Teach himself. Including the question Nami asked "Who is he?".Yeah I once thought Blackbeard had some tiny intelligence to him, some semblance of forethought, like villains do, but after Impel Down I realize the guy is dumb as dirt. It's hard to believe the whole two fruits thing is anything more than dumb luck at this point.
He planned out everything he's done to this point.
Hiding under Whitebeards shadow to stay under the radar. Staying on Whitebeards crew to increase his chances of finding the Yami Yami. Hunting down Luffy (and then Ace) all with the intent of using them to receive a schichibukai spot, and then using that spot solely for the purpose of breaking into Impel Down to increase his crews manpower. And then going to the war which he started (by turning in Ace), all with the plan of taking down Whitebeard and stealing his ability?Dumb as dirt? Not a chance. He thinks things out. He might appear dumb when hes put on the spot, but he knows what he's doing.
Years come by and we still discuss the same thing over and over again… Heh.
"It's not him, it's they" - I think it's painfully obvious that Oda has left a hint there. It's impossible to grasp what it was aimed at, but a hint non the less. The nakama explanation (as said by Nami) was there to clear the situation for the moment, otherwise it would be just way too weird for readers back then. Don't forget that Ace said "you've lived twice the life" which can also be accounted for the same theory of multi-personality.
Changing teeth - also clear that Oda is doing this on purpose. I can't really imagine what kind of crazy concept must be planted here if the teeth change represents switching of body/personality/whatever, but there's just no way Oda is doing that by mistake and not intentionally. In chapter 581 there's a close-up of Blackbeard's face and all the teeth are present which they didn't fix in volume edition (which is done to most of mistakes). I could never believe that editors overlooked that. It's an interesting observation really, I might need to check all chapters to see if there's any pattern.
Cerberus theory - complete bullshit. He couldn't have had a devil fruit before yami-yami since no one in Whitebeard's crew (Ace included) were surprised by it and they were cleary aware of his 'special body' (as said by Marco). Yami-yami and Gura-gura already make him super-overpowered and you want more fruits? Of course at this point it's not possible to state for sure about the final fruit count (will it be 2? 3? nine thousand?), but the previous fruit 'owners' which Blackbeard 'stole' the fruits from were 2 people who shared a name with him. Why the heck would Oda throw this pattern out of the window and randomly give him Marco's fruit (like some people stated)? Isn't that just random to the max?
The flag is 3 heads of Cerberus and it represents past, present and future, along with chaos-star formed by the bones on the back, which symbols chaotic fate, something whole crew believes in. I don't see how it should be any more liner and represent more things on top of that…
@Al!naJames:
Years come by and we still discuss the same thing over and over again… Heh.
Cerberus theory - complete bullshit. He couldn't have had a devil fruit before yami-yami since no one in Whitebeard's crew (Ace included) were surprised by it and they were cleary aware of his 'special body' (as said by Marco). Yami-yami and Gura-gura already make him super-overpowered and you want more fruits? Of course at this point it's not possible to state for sure about the final fruit count (will it be 2? 3? nine thousand?), but the previous fruit 'owners' which Blackbeard 'stole' the fruits from were 2 people who shared a name with him. Why the heck would Oda throw this pattern out of the window and randomly give him Marco's fruit (like some people stated)? Isn't that just random to the max?
The flag is 3 heads of Cerberus and it represents past, present and future, along with chaos-star formed by the bones on the back, which symbols chaotic fate, something whole crew believes in. I don't see how it should be any more liner and represent more things on top of that…
Unless he was intentionally hiding it the whole time.
Blackbeard is prone to deception, I feel like he wouldn't reveal he had the ability unless he absolutely had to.
Like Wisshard said,
That point is groundless. We all know Blackbeard is prone to deception and inclined to hide his real power. His purpose to sail under Whitebeard was twofold. For starters (and the main reason), because the chances (according to Blackbeard) to find the Yami Yami fruit was higher there. And secondly, to hide in Whitebeard's shadow, avoid any attention to himself, while he searched for the Yami fruit and planned. He concealed his real fighting strength and his ambition to become Pirate King, so would it not be plausible that he would hide that he had the Cerberus fruit if he had it?
(Not that I'm particulary convinced of the Cerberus theory either^)
And also,
Just thinking about Cerberus theory. Someone has said that BB wouldn't have bothered to cover up his Cerberus powers with cloak because no one else would be able to have more than one fruits?
I think IF we assume he has Cerberus fruit, cloaking it would be perfect way to freak people. Think, if everyone sees he uses Cerberus fruit they know he has all the fruits he can have now. At the moment people are propably scared shitless because they don't know how many DFs Blackbeard can have.
Original Blackbeard used lies and tricks to make his reputation bigger too. Why wouldn't our BB? :3
Zehahaha
I don't think its too far fetched to say that he could have hidden it.
Its clear that the Whitebeard pirates themselves don't seem to know a lot about his "abnormal body" other than the fact that he has an "abnormal body". Marco originally stated it as a question, hinting that he wasn't even sure of it himself, meaning that he (and the rest of the Whitebeard pirates) probably don't know much about Teach's abnormality.
Also, they could easily have just sensed the same thing that Luffy and Zoro did in 225, and concluded that it was an abnormality, just like Luffy and Zoro did.
Not exactly. I recognize that both are just theories at this point, but I think the sensing of multiple beings within Blackbeard is less far fetched than both Luffy and Zoro arriving at the same conclusion that Jesus and Doc Q were with Blackbeard without consulting each other, all the while misleading Nami by immediately jumping from talking about Blackbeard himself to talking about his (possible) crew.
First of all, the scene is very straight forward, so both of your views are forcing unnecessary and convoluted scenarios. Don't limit your thinking, particularly concerning context. Why must it mean that they know who Blackbeard's crew is, when all their comments imply are that Blackbeard has a crew at all. Both of them simply acknowledge that he's not some random guy, but probably a pirate captain himself. Look at the transcript, it's completely obvious:
Large Man: I hope you get there. To "Sky Island". ZEHAHAHAHAHA!!
Nami: Hey…!! I think he might have known something ...I wonder who he is.
Luffy: Dunno… But... it's not HE...
Nami: Not he? Then… what?
Zoro: It's THEM… I'd bet.
Nami: What do you mean? You mean that guy… has a crew? Where!?
Plus, if they were referring to his crew, they had no reason to ignore Nami when she asked for confirmation that they were talking about his nakama.
Have you ever written a story?
If its multiple persons within one body, referring to Blackbeard as "you" is fine. "You" can include the multiple persons.
It's not YOU. It's THEM.
He planned out everything he's done to this point. Hiding under Whitebeards shadow to stay under the radar. Staying on Whitebeards crew to increase his chances of finding the Yami Yami. Hunting down Luffy (and then Ace) all with the intent of using them to receive a schichibukai spot, and then using that spot solely for the purpose of breaking into Impel Down to increase his crews manpower. And then going to the war which he started (by turning in Ace), all with the plan of taking down Whitebeard and stealing his ability? Dumb as dirt? Not a chance. He thinks things out. He might appear dumb when hes put on the spot, but he knows what he's doing.
No he's dumb as dirt. His warlord status literally did nothing for him and he didn't plan for the war to happen, all of his success has been dumb luck. His "plans" almost got him killed more than once. Luck that he was part of the crew that found the fruit he wanted, luck that it was Ace he was able to capture and therefore start a war, luck that Luffy had Impel Down in chaos and that war was ongoing so he wasn't completely screwed, luck that Akainu and others took Whitebeard to the brink for him, and luck that Shanks ended things before the Marines or remaining Whitebeard crew did him in. Trust me I wish he had planned all of that, because it would have been insanely easy for Oda to do and make him a more credible villain, but evil version of Luffy is what Oda wanted, so that's what we got.
@Al!naJames:
I think it's painfully obvious that Oda has left a hint there. It's impossible to grasp what it was aimed at, but a hint non the less. The nakama explanation (as said by Nami) was there to clear the situation for the moment, otherwise it would be just way too weird for readers back then.
At least in English, it reads so incredibly normal that I'm still not even sure how you can pull out some deeper meaning to the conversation. Let alone there being a painfully obvious hint. I mean I could blindly point to any dialogue from any chapter and make some ridiculous theory about what it means and it'd make about as much sense if not more.
Unless he was intentionally hiding it the whole time.
If Marco's theory is false, why would Oda a) hide the full story and b) even put it in the comic in the first place? Marco (and whole crew of Whitebeard's whom BB spent most of his life with) are aware of the reason and it is not a devil fruit.
People used to say that Shank's scar looks like a claw mark, but we now know where it came from.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
It's not YOU. It's THEM.
In English, "you" is plural, but in Japanese Nami used singular noun, not to mention I believe it was not "you" actually, in English it was "does he know"?, "it's not "he", it's "them".
I can only speak for myself here - I always found that scene odd, long before Ace battle happened, not to mention Marineford. It felt… strange I guess? Why Nami didn't get a response? Why would they even link BB to his crew in that dialogue?
When I first red chapter 577, that scene from Jaya was the first thing that came to my mind. It can be that Zoro and Luffy were only pointing at crew and not really sense anything, however from author's perspective it was a suspicious scene for readers to get a hint.
Teach is about as much of a master mind as Luffy is
Not exactly. I recognize that both are just theories at this point, but I think the sensing of multiple beings within Blackbeard is less far fetched than both Luffy and Zoro arriving at the same conclusion that Jesus and Doc Q were with Blackbeard without consulting each other, all the while misleading Nami by immediately jumping from talking about Blackbeard himself to talking about his (possible) crew.
So them both coming to the same conclusion about an incredibly strange left-field very un-One Pieceish thing they would never have encountered before and haven't since….makes more sense than them coming to the same conclusion about feeling that several dudes they ran into are one crew.
Sorry, but NO lol.
You can't possibly say what we're suggesting is too random (not denying it is either) when your side is much much much more random.
That's an un-usable argument for the side suggesting Blackbeard is some sort of weird magic three person monster-man.
I think its far more likely that both of them could sense something was amiss with Blackbeard himself and that they addressed it in the proper context of the conversation that was taking place (the conversation about Blackbeard, not Blackbeards possible crew).
Both theories make sense in context.
Plus, if they were referring to his crew, they had no reason to ignore Nami when she asked for confirmation that they were talking about his nakama.
They also have no reason to ignore the hint of something that goddamn strange…for the rest of the series so far. Including talking to him face to face.
It really doesn't make sense to me, that Luffy and Zoro both sense something that should be VERY wrong and VERY disturbing given the context of the WHOLLLE series...acting all shadowy and serious....to pretty much forget about it entirely whenever he comes up again.
Why isn't there any "Oh shit, that scary three person man beat Ace???", or "YOU THREE, YOU WIERDO, YOU MONSTER MAN" when Luffy runs into him in ID.
You can't drop a hint at something like that....and forget about it.
Like I said earlier, I feel like if it was a mistake, he would've caught it early on and intentionally start following a standard regarding Blackbeard's teeth.
I doubt he even pays attention to how much teeth BB's missing.
The fact that it continued to happen and continues to happen makes it seem like that the teeth changes are intentional. Somebody
must have noticed the mistake early on and informed him about it, theres no way he doesn't know that its happening. The fact that he (most likely) knows that its happening and continues to draw the teeth changes puts the odds in favor of intentional teeth changes.
Wait so what are you suggesting even.
That the three different people are identical looking twins who got punched in the mouth slightly different? Or had differently localized tooth decay? lol
I really don't understand this Cereberus theory, like on the surface I do, but if you even think about it in detail for a second it just doesn't really make any sense.
Are their three different personalities? Bodies? Bodies in one body? What?? Is it like Sensui from YuYu Hakusho?? What's going on?
If its multiple persons within one body, referring to Blackbeard as "you" is fine. "You" can include the multiple persons.
"It's you"? Really? Are you a native english speaker because no. You guys, Youse guys, y'all, you all. Not "you".
And do I need to bring up all the sentences said by people like Ace, Whitebeard, Jimbei, Marco, Sengoku, Shanks etc that say "him" or "he".
Or are you going to imply Jaya Luffy and Zoro are the only ones of this illustrious crowd to ever randomly sense such a thing.
Or can "he" and "him" refer to a group now too?
If that was the case, they would have had no reason to ignore Nami's question.
And why would they ignore her question if they had "discovered" that Blackbeard was really a complete freak of nature three person chimaera man.
Not to mention, that whole island was full of pirates (including Bellamy and co. Roshio, etc.). So coming to a conclusion like that would just be them pulling it out of their ass.
It was full of small fry. Bellamy included. Like I said, do you really think in that crowd the Blackbeard's wouldn't stand out?
Re-read it then.
No matter how you look at it, it's obvious that something weird is being implied. The whole conversation and interaction was with and about Teach himself. Including the question Nami asked "Who is he?".
I own the Viz Volume thanks very much, and just reread it recently. It's strange. But strange enough to possibly mean as we said. An ominous sense that there are some real dangerous bigwigs lurking around the island.
@Al!naJames:
In English, "you" is plural
What? No. Maybe in the 17th century.
@Al!naJames:
"It's not him, it's they" - I think it's painfully obvious that Oda has left a hint there. It's impossible to grasp what it was aimed at, but a hint non the less. The nakama explanation (as said by Nami) was there to clear the situation for the moment, otherwise it would be just way too weird for readers back then. Don't forget that Ace said "you've lived twice the life" which can also be accounted for the same theory of multi-personality.
Having multi-personalities doesn't have anything at all to do with living longer.
See that's really the problem with the Cerberus side, you guys don't even really know what you're trying to argue. Personalities? Bodies? Persons?
Frankly it's way too weird…period. Both for series and character
Changing teeth - also clear that Oda is doing this on purpose. I can't really imagine what kind of crazy concept must be planted here if the teeth change represents switching of body/personality/whatever, but there's just no way Oda is doing that by mistake and not intentionally.
See my comment to the other guy.
Teeth indicating multiple people just doesn't make any sense. Unless you're saying they're identical twins with slightly different mouth problems? Huh?
In chapter 581 there's a close-up of Blackbeard's face and all the teeth are present which they didn't fix in volume edition (which is done to most of mistakes). I could never believe that editors overlooked that. It's an interesting observation really, I might need to check all chapters to see if there's any pattern.
I think teeth like those are generally just considered a sight gag or not important enough. Like how crowd scenes will not stay consistent with people in the background.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
What? No. Maybe in the 17th century.
I guess if you were referring to a crowd in a speech I could see that. Like a politician or something.
But even then it's being used so that each person in the crowd feels personally addressed. XD
It's just…NOT used plurally. Especially not if a guy was addressing three people as a group.
What? No. Maybe in the 17th century.
It really has no connection with what we're talking about here since the original is in Japanese, but
[hide]it's plural. It can be used in singular sense, but grammar-wise… You say you 'are' and 'were', not 'is or 'was'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You
If we look at French, for example
Je - I
Tu - You
Il/Elle - He/She
Nous - We
Vous - You
Ills - They
[/hide]
@Al!naJames:
It really has no connection with what we're talking about here since the original is in Japanese.
Loook outtttt wikipediaa noooo. It has relevance in that I read it the same way I would in Japanese. Singular you/he, then plural they/them.
@Monkey:
Teeth indicating multiple people just doesn't make any sense. Unless you're saying they're identical twins with slightly different mouth problems? Huh?
No Monky King, youre wrong, BB loses a teeth every DF he eats.
@Monkey:
I guess if you were referring to a crowd in a speech I could see that. Like a politician or something. But even then it's being used so that each person in the crowd feels personally addressed. XD It's just…NOT used plurally. Especially not if a guy was addressing three people as a group.
Yeah, and if they meant for it to be plural, it'd be "you all" or something.
People are basing theories off Blackbeards teeth? Really?
Moriahs teeth went from rounded to sharp, I guess this is significant?
And VanderDecken was the same…I'm sensing a huuuge reveal here
First of all, the scene is very straight forward, so both of your views are forcing unnecessary and convoluted scenarios. Don't limit your thinking, particularly concerning context. Why must it mean that they know who Blackbeard's crew is, when all their comments imply are that Blackbeard has a crew at all. Both of them simply acknowledge that he's not some random guy, but probably a pirate captain himself. Look at the transcript, it's completely obvious:
Large Man: I hope you get there. To "Sky Island". ZEHAHAHAHAHA!!
Nami: Hey…!! I think he might have known something ...I wonder who he is.
Luffy: Dunno… But... it's not HE...
Nami: Not he? Then… what?
Zoro: It's THEM… I'd bet.
Nami: What do you mean? You mean that guy… has a crew? Where!?
Agree to disagree I guess. I think it can be read both ways, but that the way I'm reading it has more credibility given the context.
Have you ever written a story?
Have you?
I can use the same argument to support my points.
It's not YOU. It's THEM.
But if THEM is within ONE persons body, saying "you" can refer to THEM.
The word "you" isn't always singular.
No he's dumb as dirt. His warlord status literally did nothing for him and he didn't plan for the war to happen, all of his success has been dumb luck. His "plans" almost got him killed more than once. Luck that he was part of the crew that found the fruit he wanted, luck that it was Ace he was able to capture and therefore start a war, luck that Luffy had Impel Down in chaos and that war was ongoing so he wasn't completely screwed, luck that Akainu and others took Whitebeard to the brink for him, and luck that Shanks ended things before the Marines or remaining Whitebeard crew did him in. Trust me I wish he had planned all of that, because it would have been insanely easy for Oda to do and make him a more credible villain, but evil version of Luffy is what Oda wanted, so that's what we got.
I say bullshit to all of that being luck.
If you don't remember, the whole purpose of getting his warlord status was so that he could receive a battleship, and so that he could gain entry to Impel Down without suspicion. He had this plan in mind way back when Lafitte was sent to the shichibukai meeting to nominate Teach. I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that it was his plan all along.
There's no way everything he's done up to this point has been a result of luck.
You really think an idiot would spend years hiding in Whitebeards crew just for the sole purpose of finding a specific devil fruit? Thats not luck. He planned it.
The fact that he planned something like that is WAY more than enough to make the conclusion that he isn't a dunce.
Not to mention, he definitely planned to take Whitebeards ability. Otherwise his crew wouldn't know what the fuck he was doing. Shilliew even said "What do we do if it doesn't work?" Meaning he was briefed on what the plan was, meaning that Teach was planning to take Whitebeards ability.
Granted, he relies on luck for a lot of the specifics of situations (like whether or not stealing the ability would actually work or not), but he doesn't do everything on a whim.
@Monkey:
Having multi-personalities doesn't have anything at all to do with living longer.
See that's really the problem with the Cerberus side, you guys don't even really know what you're trying to argue. Personalities? Bodies? Persons?
Frankly it's way too weird…period. Both for series and character
I'm the first person against Cerberus theory. And Luffy and Zoro probably were talking about crew-members, but the scene did feel odd for readers (it did for me, at least) so when we do find out what's the matter with Blackbeard in the end, that 'hint' from Oda could achieve a new meaning from reader's perspective (not from Luffy and Zoro's).
@Al!naJames:
It really has no connection with what we're talking about here since the original is in Japanese, but
[hide]it's plural. It can be used in singular sense, but grammar-wise… You say you 'are' and 'were', not 'is or 'was'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You
It's singular. With people never ever really using it plurally. It's been turned to always having assisting words. Like You ALL, or You GUYS, You PEOPLE. Or hybrid words like Y'all.
We never ever use it to refer to multiple people nakedly, except in the sense I posted above.
@Me:
I guess if you were referring to a crowd in a speech I could see that. Like a politician or something.
But even then it's being used so that each person in the crowd feels personally addressed. XD
It's just…NOT used plurally. Especially not if a guy was addressing three people as a group.
If you asked any native english speaker what they're hearing if they saw Luffy address three people with "you". They would answer that Luffy was talking to only one of the people, I absolutely ensure you this is so.
I mean you can run this by the British, maybe they do use it still like that. But I doubt they do.
@Monkey:
See my comment to the other guy.
Teeth indicating multiple people just doesn't make any sense. Unless you're saying they're identical twins with slightly different mouth problems? Huh?
Like I said, it indeed makes no sense and needs some serious madhouse-level background to work, so I don't think it's connected to personality switching or whatsoever, but Oda does mess up his teeth on purpose. For whatever reason there is.
@The:
People are basing theories off Blackbeards teeth? Really?
Moriahs teeth went from rounded to sharp, I guess this is significant?
And VanderDecken was the same…I'm sensing a huuuge reveal here
@Monkey:
It's singular. With people never ever really using it plurally. It's been turned to always having assisting words. Like You ALL, or You GUYS, You PEOPLE. Or hybrid words like Y'all.
We never ever use it to refer to multiple people nakedly, except in the sense I posted above.
You're American, my friend, that is why.
[hide]
Because you is both singular and plural, people speaking various English dialects have attempted to revive the distinction between a singular and plural you by using slang to avoid confusion between the two uses. Examples of informal plurals sometimes seen and heard are:
- y'all, or you all – southern United States[1] and African American Vernacular English
- you guys – U.S.,[2] particularly in the Midwest, Northeast, and West Coast; Canada, Australia. Used regardless of the genders of those referred to
- you lot – UK[3]
- yous(e) – Ireland,[4] Tyneside,[5] Merseyside,[6] Central Scotland,[7] Australia [8]
- youse guys – in the U.S., particularly in New York City region, Philadelphia, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan; also spelt without the E
- you-uns/yinz – Western Pennsylvania, The Appalachians[[I]citation needed]
- ye/yee/yees – Ireland,[9] Tyneside[10]
Although these plurals are used in daily speech, they are generally not considered acceptable in Standard English, nor in formal writing situations.
[/hide]
Just popping in because you guys were discussing the Cerberus theory again(which I support). On the topic of him scarring Shanks, the claw-like weapons may be a red-herring from Oda. It wasn't focused on, just shown in one brief panel. Most likely to derail any of us form completely signing on board with the theory. It would make sense for Teach to use a weapon focusing on claws if that is how he is used to fighting with the Cerberus fruit. If he is at his best with that fighting style and then has to hide his ability, why not use a weapon to emulate his natural fighting style without revealing himself. Obviously it didn't matter once he got the Dark Dark Fruit as it was public that he had that ability.
@Al!naJames:
You're American, my friend, that is why.
Um that's showing the different ways native English speakers address mulitiple people with you. All of which are hybrid words, or had a word added on no matter where they're from.
Like people from the Northeast US where I am say "Youze guys" sometimes (Italians mostly), and you ask Smudge how his people do and he'll probably say "You lot".
Meanwhile down south (and in black American dialect) you hear y'all overhwhelmingly. I also use y'all sometimes.
Apparently in Ireland they say "ye" lol.
The point is, bolstered by what you're pointing out. Is that none of us. New York, London, Atlanta, Galway, Edinburgh….just say "you". We all add stuff, or use a slang word.
Have you? I can use the same argument to support my points.
My question had a purpose, so your counter doesn't exactly work unless you acknowledge that purpose. In short, prose should follow the natural flow of speech and you don't always need to end a scene with completed dialog. Let the viewers piece the information together. He wasn't alone, he wasn't just some guy, pay attention readers this person will be important later.
But if THEM is within ONE persons body, saying "you" can refer to THEM. The word "you" isn't always singular.
I don't know any chimera people, but I'd say them.
If you don't remember
I do.
the whole purpose of getting his warlord status was so that he could receive a battleship
That he took by force.
so that he could gain entry to Impel Down
A place Warlords are not allowed to enter.
without suspicion.
They alerted the warden and tried to contact HQ.
He had this plan in mind way back when Lafitte was sent to the shichibukai meeting to nominate Teach.
And it was stupid then too.
I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that it was his plan all along.
He told Ace he "had it all planned out"
There's no way everything he's done up to this point has been a result of luck.
His entire theme is fate. Case in point: this
You really think an idiot would spend years hiding in Whitebeards crew just for the sole purpose of finding a specific devil fruit?
Yes, it's actually pretty defining. And he did.
Thats not luck. He planned it.
My goal is to find something rare that there is only one of, so I'll sit in one place for 20 years.
The fact that he planned something like that is WAY more than enough to make the conclusion that he isn't a dunce.
You can't plan to stumble upon an extremely rare item. It either happens or it doesn't.
Not to mention, he definitely planned to take Whitebeards ability.
No, he wanted Whitebeard's ability. He had no plan to take it. There's a difference.
I don't know any chimera people, but I'd say them.
@Monkey:
"It's you"? Really? Are you a native english speaker because no. You guys, Youse guys, y'all, you all. Not "you".
btw 'you' can be used for both singular and plural in japanese
We know, but thanks.
@I'm:
btw 'you' can be used for both singular and plural in japanese
Psst, we're reading translated manga where the translators have chosen singular use examples for this character.
My question had a purpose, so your counter doesn't exactly work unless you acknowledge that purpose. In short, prose should follow the natural flow of speech and you don't always need to end a scene with completed dialog. Let the viewers piece the information together. He wasn't alone, he wasn't just some guy, pay attention readers this person will be important later.
Fine. How about plot twists and foreshadowing? Those seem to happen in stories if I'm not mistaken.
I don't know any chimera people, but I'd say them.
Me neither, but technically you could say either them or you and be correct.
That he took by force.
Which probably wouldn't have happened if he didn't have the trust of the marines.
A place Warlords are not allowed to enter.
Hancock?
Also, him being a Shichibukai alleviated a lot of the suspicion and hostility that would have taken place if he was a free-roaming pirate not under the protection of the government.
They alerted the warden and tried to contact HQ.
They had no reason so suspect him until he began his infiltration of Impel Down.
Up until that point he was an ally, who proved himself by turning in Ace. So they had no reason to track his movements, or be (extremely) cautious about his actions.
Therefore his infiltration of Impel Down was sparked without suspicion.
And it was stupid then too.
Obviously not stupid enough, since this guy who apparently is "dumber than dirt" keeps pulling this shit off.
His entire theme is fate. Case in point: this
That doesn't mean he does everything on whims and doesn't plan anything out.
Yes, it's actually pretty defining. And he did.
My goal is to find something rare that there is only one of, so I'll sit in one place for 20 years.
Hiding under the shadow of Whitebeard so that he would slip by unnoticed.
He actually says thats his reasoning at some point (I'll try and find where he says it).
You can't plan to stumble upon an extremely rare item. It either happens or it doesn't.
You can't plan on it, but you can increase your chances of stumbling upon it. Which is exactly why he joined Whitebeards crew.
No, he wanted Whitebeard's ability. He had no plan to take it. There's a difference.
There's no way he didn't plan in some way to take it. If he "had no plan to take it" he wouldn't have briefed his crew about what he was going to do when they got to Marineford.
If he briefed his crew about what was going to happen before it actually happened, that means he **planned it.**​
Blackbeard only ever had the absolutely barest outlines of what you could possibly call a plan.
All his plots went like hope X falls right into your hands, use X to get Y. The rest is just him winging it and hoping it pans out
Just about the teeth:
While it surely makes very little sense for them to be changed along with personality from the OP world perspective, it could still make some sense from perspective of the readers and the author. If the theory is indeed true, then maybe we should look at this like for example characters from various cartoons changing their voices along with minds (like with DBZ' Captain Ginyu or OP's Law). It's total nonsense for voice to change when body doesn't change at all, yet it still happens (and other characters usually don't notice this IIRC). If we're in the same situation here, then that's more information/hint for readers than anything else.
Maybe not the strongest support for my view on this, but Oda have already drawn things without sense if we look 'literally' (couldn't find suitable word) on the picture, like this:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100101150739/onepiece/images/f/f9/SBS_Vol.31_2.png or Luffy being hurt after Nami's punches (even though she directly stated she's not capable of harming him in the first chapters).
It should be noted however that it was only for comedic purposes which isn't the case here.
BTW I'm supporter of multiple personalities theory, however I'm against cerberus/chimera DF, if anybody cares.
am I the only one who thinks that BB having a second DF is related to his own darkness logia DF?
You will never be the only one to think anything.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I think because of his strange body and the Yami².
It's gotta be said, you have the best sig on AP.