General 'Haki' Discussion

[brennen.exe]

[hide]@Zik:

I'm sorry but what you said Greg was saying and what he actually said are not the same. You can call me ignorant or whatever but it doesn't help anything accept for your need to feel justified in your statements.

Heh. You really think I need to feel justified? I have done my best to provoke theory and encourage this idea. I have backed it up with statements from the manga and more. You on the other hand dismissed everything I said simply because you don't want to believe it. I am fine with that. What's the point of me discussing this theory at all, or posting on this forum at all, if I cannot explore and defend my theory? It's not like I'm spouting nonsense or insulting you to win some argument. I am giving solid posts (IMV) with information to support my claims. On top of it all I make sure to add "IMO" and "I think" or "maybe" or "if" in there to show that I know it isn't definite or fact. So, to respond to your claims:

What Greg said:

@Greg:

Again, when we look at what's driving 90% of CP9, most seem to be doing their job, whereas Lucci has actual bloodlust and to that extent, may actually display 'ambition'.

@Greg:

Which is why I suggested that while the rest of CP9 essentially floated through their jobs, the only individual who seemed to have a real ambition or 'drive' if you will, was Lucci.

What I said:@brennen.exe:

I could be wrong, but I think he (Greg) was using Lucci's bloodlust as evidence to suggest he might have 'ambition' beyond merely being an assassin and thus could use 'Haki', whereas the rest of them were just doing their job.

What you said:@Zik:

The way I read it he mentioned Lucci's doukiri being the highest of the CP9 as a reason why the rest of them might not know haki.

Furthermore, I also suggested that they were both parts of his suggestion, and that it wasn't simply one thing. I just wanted to point out that there was more to Greg's theory than what you were reading into. But either way, no big deal.

@Zik:

It's unfortunate that you think that, I haven't once said this won't happen or this will happen. Just that it is unlikely or doubtful or has no support behind it. If you think I have implied that then you need better inferring skills.

Look, let me apologize and back up a little bit. I do not mean to offend or attack you, it's just that you make it seem at times like your opinion or view holds so much more sway than anyone else's, and therefore what we say means little. I do not mean to suggest that you say what will and won't happen all the time, I just feel like you come in and scrap other peoples' theories like they are a waste of time and are sometimes rude about it. Without exploring it too deep here are some minor examples of where I felt that way, despite the content you were referring to:

@Collection:

@Zik:

No it doesn't. Sento's attacks physically hit Luffy they were nothing like an impact dial or rokuougan.

@Zik:

Atleast you acknowledge douriki has nothing to do with Haki.

@Zik:

Rokuougan using Haki really doesn't have any support behind it.

@Zik:

Stop thinking….......

@Zik:

Oh well, I'm gonna go back to ignoring until a good haki theory arises.

Like I said, I am sorry if I made it seem like I was attacking you or something, all I meant was that I want to prevent that type of stuff, and in some cases you have made it seem like your opinion stands above the rest. It makes discussing anything with you feel pointless, because if I don't agree with what you say you will never budge an inch despite what evidence I support to the contrary. I have told you before that I only do this because I enjoy debating and exploring the manga. I could care less if my theory is right or wrong, and there are tons of cases where I have been wrong about something and admitted as much. I don't need the last word, but if there is more to say I will say it. In this case, I was wrong for making it seem so accusational – I just would like to know that the discussion is going somewhere. Where I started by commenting on your post in regards the Greg, I tried to make it clear that from there I was formulating my own opinion and theory…to which I wanted to discuss. Since you continued it...so did I.

I guess let's just drop this and move on.[/hide]

"Type's of Haki". Heh. The title really amuses me right now.

[Zkaiser]

This topic title seems to suggest clairvoyance.

[MonkeyDALby]

Looks like Haki being related to Mantra is not so far fetched now. Also my theory on Haki stopping devils fruit powers seems plausible now.

[Xai]

I wonder. Is it possible that they are not "predicting" Luffy's moves, but just "seeing" it too fast? Sort of like "spider sense" if you will.

[brennen.exe]

@Xai:

I wonder. Is it possible that they are not "predicting" Luffy's moves, but just "seeing" it too fast? Sort of like "spider sense" if you will.

Now, I could be wrong due to the translations, but before the Haki theories get even more out of control:

"Different Types of Haki" – During the fight with Marigold and Sandersonia, the spectators make comments -- in addition to the actual fight -- that suggest that Marigold and Sandersonia have different "colors" of Haki, and therefore have different capabilities. IE: Marigold has the ability to damage and effect someone using Haki to boost her attacks, while Sandersonia has shown the ability to predict movements but did not harm Luffy when she slammed him into the ground. Not to say one couldn't use the other, but it seems to be that different people have different strengths, weaknesses, and abilities.

Edit: After finally reading Imitorar's post in the Chapter thread, he has noticed some of this as well.
Edit: In fact, I think I will quote him in this post because what he says is good for conversation:

[hide]@Imitorar:

A monumental chapter this week. With this chapter, One Piece has tied Dragon Ball in terms of number of chapters. And next week, One Piece will be longer then Dragon Ball. (Well, at least in terms of number of chapters. In terms of number of pages and number of volumes, One Piece has been ahead for years.) It certainly feels like a milestone.

It seems as though the Kuja really don't know of Devil Fruits. It seemed as though they might, but just got confused because Luffy's a man, but if they don't know that Sandersonia and Marigold are Devil Fruit users, they almost definitely do not know of the existence of Devil Fruits. They probably figure that Hancock's abilities come from her great beauty, and since they are tied to love and lust, being the Love Love Fruit (I've got to find a better translation for this one. The Mero Mero Fruit and the Horo Horo are giving me a lot of trouble, translation-wise) that assumption makes sense. The "Gorgon" sisters have probably pinned it on the Gorgon's curse because their influence with the Kuja apparently stems from their having defeated the Gorgon, which they apparently didn't actually do. This also seems to make it sure that what's on Hancock's back isn't a Gorgon symbol, but rather, something else that she got some other way, perhaps as a byproduct of her Devil Fruit, although it really does seem to have the power to petrify, since Hancock and her sisters were shocked when Luffy wasn't petrified.

The focuses this chapter were on two things. Firstly, Hancock's twisted rule and impunity among the Kuja. And secondly, the battle uses of Haki. From Sandersonia, it seems that Haki can be used to read attacks. This makes sense. If you're the type of person who walks around with an aura of strength, it figures that you'd be able to sense from someone else's emotional aura what they were going to do. It's sort of like the other side of Mantra. Mantra worked by sensing the noises and shifts made by the body. Haki-radar seems to work by sensing the shifts and disturbances of the emotions.

Marigold's power is much more troubling. At first glance, it seems to imply that Haki can jam Devil Fruit powers, something that I cannot stomach. It is illogical, unbalanced, overpowered, cheapens other powers, cheapens Devil Fruits, and makes Haki too specific to fit the term and the story. I've been dreading and loathing statements to the effect of "Haki can jam Devil Fruit powers" ever since chapter 512. I refuse to believe that Oda would do something this foolish with Haki, and if he does, I may seriously hold that against him for the rest of the story. Which is something I don't want to happen, which is why I hope that's not what Oda's done. (I know he said sometimes he gives the fans what they want, but not over this. This is too major and has too many drawbacks for him to give, regardless of the fans.) Thankfully, there's hope.

If Marigold could jam Devil Fruits with Haki, then why did Gum Gum Stamp bounce off of her? It should have jammed. It should have snapped straight back to Luffy, or he should have been a normal human with a grossly long leg. It seems as though Marigold wasn't so much able to jam Luffy's Devil Fruit as strengthen herself with Haki so should resist Luffy's attack, thus making it bounce back at him. Then she hit him with the butt of her glaive, which did affect Luffy, as did Sandersonia's subsequent crushing of his body in her coils. You could say that the butt of the glaive must be made of Seastone, but that doesn't seem to be the case, since Marigold's Snake Spike attack was done with her tail, not the glaive, and it did affect Luffy.

But the thing is, we know that Luffy isn't immune to all blows. A hard enough punch can hurt him, whether it's because it's driven by emotion (the Fist of Love), or whether it's from a powerful fighter. (Foxy's punches. Not that Foxy was that powerful, but apparently, he could throw a decent punch. Other examples include Bellamy's blows. Luffy was bloody and battered after that.) It may be that with Haki, Marigold was able to strengthen her attacks to the point where they were able to hurt Luffy, which is quite an impressive feat, seeing as Luffy can withstand a cannonball. That also fits with my theory of how fighting with Haki works (which I was sure I'd posted somewhere, but I can't seem to find it, so I'll remention it here.) Haki is your ambition, your strength of will. Therefore, it makes sense that the way to fight with Haki is to put the strength of your will, in addition to the strength of your muscles, into your blows. I got this idea by seeing the Haki imbued arrow Marguerite fired. I think it worked by her just using Haki to fire the arrow extremely hard.

That solves alot of problems, as then the usage seems to fit with the meaning of the term "Haki", Haki isn't so powerful it's practically an institutionalized Deus ex Machina, and the fighting styles don't change, everything just goes up a level (or more) because the characters are now fighting with something stronger then their muscles: Their "wills". I'm hoping that's how Haki works and that's what Marigold did. It also seems to make sense because Sandersonia, who seems to specialize in Haki-radar, was able to hurt Luffy when she crushed him, but not when she slammed him on the ground. If his Devil Fruit was jammed, then both should have hurt him, and he shouldn't have been able to kick her while she had him grabbed. Her snake muscles must be more powerful then slamming Luffy on the ground, which seems to make some sense. Snake muscles are extremely strong.

And finally, the last thing we see is that Luffy, when he's aroused, has the Haki of a man who seems destined for greatness, which is quite fitting, since Luffy is a man who's destined for greatness. He can do what Shanks did, he can knock out a whole group of underlings with the mere strength of his presence. And now that Luffy's aroused, I think he may continue this fight with the force of his will, his ambition, his "Haki" behind his blows. Hopefully, he'll use Haki the way I think he will, and that mystery (and anxiety) will finally be put to rest. And once he does it this time, I think that he'll know to do it again. Just like Goku was able to become a Super Saiyan at will once he learned how to make himself angry enough to transform at will, Luffy will be able to stir himself into releasing his full strength of presence and using that to fuel his attacks. And once he's done that, he may finally be ready to take on the New World.

[/hide]

[Deicide]

Could any "psychic" and "super-human non-physical" powers be some form of Haki?

For instance: is Jango using Haki when he hypnotizes someone? Was Miss Goldenweek using some form of Haki in her colors? Is Enel's Mantra a form of Haki? Is Haki the thing that allow Rokushiki obviously supernatural techniques, like Geppou, work?

[tigerlilly]

@brennen.exe:

• Zoro makes someone foam at the mouth after holding their head in his hand. Why? We don't know. Kinda weird. Just rolled over it as something that just happened.

I don´t think this example has anything to do with Haki, isn´t he just gripping her head so hard that she lost consciousness because he was almost chrushing her temples? That´s how I always saw it.

[Md-Martin]

@Deicide:

For instance: is Jango using Haki when he hypnotizes someone?

It was said in a SBS that he ate the cap of the mushroom growing on his chin and thats wear he got his power.

[barkadat3p]

I kinda agree with the theory that there are different types of haki right now, the haoushoku being the rarest obviously. As far as I'm concerned there are at least 3 types and each sister has one. And all three can be used to hurt DF users…NOT negate the ability, just hurt them like they don't have the DF defense advantage (and it's divided in types because of the perks you get for having that kind). For example, logia phasing attacks will be useless against haki but that doesn't mean that Ace can't just burn the haki user from afar or use haki himself to block the attack.

1. Hancock obviously has the first, haoushoku. I think someone said that this could influence others like knocking people out and if possible Boa's charming ability which seperates it from her stone-turning ability hence the king name. Hey this might explain Zoro's Ashura
2. Marigold seems to have the ability to extend her haki to her weapon(or objects for that matter). I won't be surprised if she is the authority on this kind of haki on the island and overlooks the archery skills of the guards.
3. Sandersonia can use her haki to predict movements. Which can explain mantra and why only a few Shandians can harness this type of haki.

Feel free to shred the theory apart

[brennen.exe]

@tigerlilly:

I don't think this example has anything to do with Haki, isn't he just gripping her head so hard that she lost consciousness because he was almost crushing her temples? That´s how I always saw it.

To be fair, I wasn't suggesting it was Haki. I was only pointing out all the cases where something strange happened, people reacted, and there wasn't really an explanation. In that case it was the only time someone would have not only knocked out from simply having their head squeezed, but also foamed at the mouth. That is pretty strange and wasn't really explained. Sure, might not have been, but if that's the case why should we believe what Shanks did in chapter 1 was? Or what about Luffy staring down Motobaru? All I am saying is they are similar types of situations that were unexplained. Hmm, I am repeating myself alot. I will shut up now.

[Kiavik]

To me, a lot of the strange techniques we've seen so far are just forms of ambition.
What I think is that in the world of one piece a lot of people are able to use just one aspect of ambition, and that's it.
But if you know how to control your ambition, you can use them all. Its like programming with c++ : its harder than other languages but you have full control on the computer. Sorry I'm a geek couldnt find a better example :D
For example: the swordsmen are able to learn the "breath of all things" technique, which allows them to imbue their sword with "Will" (but really its ambition) to cut through stuff.
At one point of the Mr. 1 fight, Zoro says that he's putting his will into his blade.
We've seen Margaret use that aspect of ambition with the imbued arrows.
Mantra is another aspect, and so on.
The Highest form of ambition may be the one the makes other people faint. The kings ambition.
Or maybe there's an even higher level, the emperor's ambition which is the one that the 4 emperors have and lets you cut the sky or other shit like that.
The six techniques are just some other aspects of Ambition, imho.
So why they dont tell Lucci that rokuoogun IS ambition?
because he's a friggin' psycopath, thats why.
Since ambition seems to be the ultimate technique, imagine what would happen if someone like Lucci was able to unleash its full potential. And that's why outside of Amazon Lily ambition is a very well kept secret that only the most powerful pirates and marine know. Its a power that must not fall into the wrong hands. Only the righteous should be able to use its full potential, and thats why outside of amazon lily we've seen only good guys using it. So it makes sense if they chose to keep its true nature secret to Lucci. Sorry for the long post and if its badly written, but I'm italian and i'm really tired now :)

[nintouryu]

@Kiavik:

And that's why outside of Amazon Lily ambition is a very well kept secret that only the most powerful pirates and marine know. Its a power that must not fall into the wrong hands. Only the righteous should be able to use its full potential, and thats why outside of amazon lily we've seen only good guys using it. So it makes sense if they chose to keep its true nature secret to Lucci. Sorry for the long post and if its badly written, but I'm italian and i'm really tired now :)

I dont think that's the case, even if people know about haki, doesn't mean they can use it,… so even if people do find out, they still couldn't use it that easily. and I think haki is not kept secret, it's just that, you must travel half of grand line first to get the information, just like the people in the blue sea doesn't know about log post, or grand line crazy climate, some people in the east blue even still consider that DF is just a rumor. so the people who know about haki is people who is in the new world and around the end of the first of grand line, or the people who's been there.

Oh..and seeing chap 519, really does support my theories

[makaveli80]

I just realized the topic was posted on Sept 30th…before the chapter 519 came out :) good prediction by OP

Geez, it all makes sense now, I knew there was no such thing as mind reading, and why would so many of the sky warriors have it...I could understand Enel reading electrical energies to predict movement, but the others? They were using Haki, we can see that in retrospective. Damn Oda, he planned this from so long ago? :wub:

[nintouryu]

@makaveli80:

I just realized the topic was posted on Sept 30th…before the chapter 519 came out :) good prediction by OP

Please accept my most humble gratitute…
Thank you very much

[Archtyrant]

yeah man good stuff yo! it really is what is happening now..

Hopefully we'll get to see Luffy train in all its forms. We'll probably see other members of the SH learning Haki too. Then it'll be just like in the beginning of HunterXhunter

[regasatanum]

@makaveli80:

I just realized the topic was posted on Sept 30th…before the chapter 519 came out :) good prediction by OP

Geez, it all makes sense now, I knew there was no such thing as mind reading, and why would so many of the sky warriors have it...I could understand Enel reading electrical energies to predict movement, but the others? They were using Haki, we can see that in retrospective. Damn Oda, he planned this from so long ago? :wub:

Obviously Oda is lurking in APforum gettiing feedbacks. hehe.

Mantra could be a type of KI (aura,energy but i will stick with æther), rather than a type of Haki. Its difficult to find a word to describe haki. It's translated as Ambition but another fitting description for the character HA in OP context is "tyrannizing". Thus it can bring fear to anyone within the radius.

And Luffy has the tryrant aura of a Conqueror.

For more info:

@Aohige_AP:

Luffy and Hancock has the "color of Haou" haki.
Haou is type of a king that rules with martial law, and conquers other lands.
Haou follows the hadou, the path of a conquering warlord.
(as opposed to Oudou, the path of a king, which rules with wisdom, leadership, and politics)

Fittingly enough for its intimidating nature, the character for Ha in Haki is the same as Haou.

[Ushae]

After reading this chapter now I'm REALLY curious. Luffy has the exact same type of Haki as Hancock. Oda would never have created this link for no reason ? What's their connection. The obvious theory would be mother-son, but it could be something more subtle than that.

It would make sense that she would pass on the '1 in a million' trait of King Haki to her offspring. What makes me even more curious is why Oda gave hancock king haki too. Luffy also recognised osmething on her back, and is immune to her charms. It's making more and more sense that she is Luffy's mother/relative.

Will she train luffy in haki ? Are they related somehow ? oooooooh can't wait for the next chapter !!!

[Xai]

What intrigues me more than Luffy and Boa having the same Haki, is the fact that Boa has such a strong Haki. I am curious as to what Boa's ambition/dream in life is.

[Zik]

@Xai:

What intrigues me more than Luffy and Boa having the same Haki, is the fact that Boa has such a strong Haki. I am curious as to what Boa's ambition/dream in life is.

I've figured for a long time she would have the strongest haki or be the strongest haki user on the island since they stress that beauty = strength. I'd assume even if Hancock wasn't that beautiful she'd still have the amazons under her thumb due to her strength alone.

Her dream/ambition is probably some thing that has good intentions(for her) but is twisted in some sordid way.

[MonkeyDALby]

@Xai:

I wonder. Is it possible that they are not "predicting" Luffy's moves, but just "seeing" it too fast? Sort of like "spider sense" if you will.

the only problem with that is..

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/10/

She couldn't have saw it. With her eyes being closed and all.

Also to the threads creator. As of right now, looks like you hit the nail on the head with your theory.

[Phoenix Zoan]

@Xai:

What intrigues me more than Luffy and Boa having the same Haki, is the fact that Boa has such a strong Haki. I am curious as to what Boa's ambition/dream in life is.

Haki also means spirit or aura. So her King Haki could be how much see prides herself in being beautiful. Basically she's so full of herself that she thinks that shes better than everyone. Once your at the top some people consider themselves a king. Only difference though with Hancock her benevolence has basically corrupted her.

[Xai]

@Phoenix:

Haki also means spirit or aura. So her King Haki could be how much see prides herself in being beautiful. Basically she's so full of herself that she thinks that shes better than everyone. Once your at the top some people consider themselves a king. Only difference though with Hancock her benevolence has basically corrupted her.

OP world is full of egotistical no-gooders. Remember Alvida?

I don't believe Boa's Haki is due to her arrogance or ego. I think she has some hidden agenda up her sleeve.

[Phoenix Zoan]

@Xai:

OP world is full of egotistical no-gooders. Remember Alvida?

I don't believe Boa's Haki is due to her arrogance or ego. I think she has some hidden agenda up her sleeve.

Well her hidden agenda is most likely whatever is on her back. But that doesn't mean it has to be related to her Haki power. Hell she's already a ruler anyways. Her ambition could've been to be the most beautifulest women in the world (most people refer to her as the most beautiful women in the world) or to rule a kingdom (She's a Suchibaki and empress of Kuja). It could be as simple as she already attained her dream.

[maxterdexter]

Here is a little coment about a character from the first volumen using haki.

This character has been able to hear the voice of nature and use it to predict weather patterns. The first time that she used this skill I didn't think that it was normal, but as the history progressed I didn't give it a second tought, untill now that it has been shown that a type of haki is capable of predicting, and that it is related to a power known as "hearing the voice of all things".

Nami could be a Haki user from the begining, using her innate skills to predict the weather.

Well Zoro also has the demonic aura Ashura, that should be related to haki.

[nintouryu]

@maxterdexter:

Here is a little coment about a character from the first volumen using haki.

This character has been able to hear the voice of nature and use it to predict weather patterns. The first time that she used this skill I didn't think that it was normal, but as the history progressed I didn't give it a second tought, untill now that it has been shown that a type of haki is capable of predicting, and that it is related to a power known as "hearing the voice of all things".

Nami could be a Haki user from the begining, using her innate skills to predict the weather.

Well Zoro also has the demonic aura Ashura, that should be related to haki.

I don't know about zoro, but I don't think nami is using haki to predict weather, I think she's just have a very good sense of weather prediction.

[Indian Sword]

Has Oda ever explained how hypnosis/colors trap works? There may be a possibility that it's a form of haki aswell and Flamingo is the best at using it. Of course, this is a huuuge jump, but it'd be pretty interesting.
Also, props to the OP for guessing far before.

[MagneticMonkey]

@Indian:

Has Oda ever explained how hypnosis/colors trap works? There may be a possibility that it's a form of haki aswell and Flamingo is the best at using it. Of course, this is a huuuge jump, but it'd be pretty interesting.
Also, props to the OP for guessing far before.

Why are you people now mixing DF power with Haki? I mean they may be related but let stay with DF power on one side and Haki on the other side. The explanation how DF works will come with Vegapunk so let's wait. We may learn more from Haki tomorrow or in the next days… A DF user can have that mysterious haki power etc...

[Hinscher]

@MagneticMonkey:

Why are you people now mixing DF power with Haki? I mean they may be related but let stay with DF power on one side and Haki on the other side. The explanation how DF works will come with Vegapunk so let's wait. We may learn more from Haki tomorrow or in the next days… A DF user can have that mysterious haki power etc...

Um Oda said that colors trap or that little girl did not have a devil fruit. So it is a good judgement from him. We don't know if Flamingo has a fruit, and we know that #3's partner doesn't. And she used a technique that was unexplainable way of controlling someone.

Luffy knew what he was doing (drinking tea) and he wanted to save them but he could do nothing. Same as when flamingo is controlling the poeple. they are all crying out to be stopped. So I could see it being a early or different way of going around that technique.

[King Kobra]

Goldenweek was just a type of hypnotist. Her powers were not that different from Jango's, so no way that was haki bullshit. Luffy is probably the only straw hat along chopper, Franky, Usopp and Brook that would have fell for such a moronic technique.

[Shaman monk]

you know what puzzles me even though people said shes a hypnotist how will the people be hypnotized by the colors if she wrote it on a spot where they cant see it or somewhere not on the body.

for example luffy hit the red spot and he didnt even notice it in the first place. was his subconscious mind being hypnotised or was some type of other influence.thats what puzzles me how can you be hypnotised if you dont see it

[Greg]

Well, there we have it, an explanation for so-called 'Mantra'.

Oda explains yet another previously unexplanined mysterious technique that other authors would have left in the dust.

And it seems that what Sentoumaru was using was indeed a variation of Haki.

So here's hoping for something addressing CP9 ^_~

[joesephes]

@Greg:

Well, there we have it, an explanation for so-called 'Mantra'.

Oda explains yet another previously unexplanined mysterious technique that other authors would have left in the dust.

And it seems that what Sentoumaru was using was indeed a variation of Haki.

So here's hoping for something addressing CP9 ^_~

Well said, dude! I couldn't agree more!

[Greg]

What's interesting about this is, regarding the naming, who do we trust? Skypieans who obviously have a culture that more resembles that of their life on the moon, or the Blue Sea dwellers? Shandia and Skypieans were/are both relatively isolated and both of them refer to it as 'Mantra'. Yet we have pirates in the second half of GL who know their stuff (regarding their history and the world) and (if they are the same) refer to it as Haki. Hmmm…. An interesting scenario.

[Dark_Kaomi]

This post is deleted!

[Crampz]

First I would like so say - Great prediction, I first thought it was dead-on when I read it a month ago (almost), but of course - It was just a theory.. When reading the chapter this immediately popped into my head.

I would like to extend on it - I know people get it, but I want to put it into text for future reference..

3 Types of Haki

Type 1 - King's Haki - Shanks, Rayleigh, Luffy, Hancock (Uses Spirit to Cause Fainting)
Type 2 - Mantra - Can hear well enough to predict movements
Type 3 - Breath Of All Things was the name of the chapter I believe.. That said, He could hear steel, rocks, etc. and could cut (Zoro).

Very interesting.. I would say that Asura would be a Haki type move to as said in the thread already. If Haki or 'Spirit' is put only into these three types its hard to put Asura into a type, I would assume there may be more, however, if there are these three Asura would still fit into 'The Breath of all things'.

I say this because - Type 1 = Spirit in terms of lower people (weaker than you) are subject to fainting.

Type 2 is like Mantra, which was shown again in the chapter (519).

Type 3 the Snake sisters also used Type 3 (making their attacks hurt Luffy despite being Rubber).

That said, I believe Type 1 Haki is birth-related and 'chosen one' as stated, where the other two can be learned. The Snake sisters were using Types 2 and 3 simutaneously (sp?)

Rayleigh obviously had Type 1 Haki, but also did Type 3 (because he hit Kizaru)
Very very interesting..

So in short.

Type 1 - Spirit Faint
Type 2 - Prediction
Type 3 - Attacking

Zoro learned the attacking type of Haki(Type 3) quite early (Arabasta)
And Type-2 was shown in Skypiea. Type one was not shown until Shanks boarded Whitebeards ship..

Does everyone agree with my breakdown? Or is there something to add?

[brennen.exe]

Just wanted to post this once more in this thread since chapter discussion gets buried fast:

[hide] @brennen.exe:

Looking back and reading some of the Mantra stuff again I was wrong, and it seems more likely now (to me) that it might possibly be able to be learned and therefore might in fact have been something related to or in actuality have been "Haki". In this case I would say perhaps the people we have seen with the ability thus far, as well as Sandersonia, were all born with a "color" that is strong in that area. I'm just theorizing of course, but who knows. If it is Haki…that is. I have a small list of interesting things I though of:

• "Color" of Haki could support the idea of specific people having natural strengths in specific uses of Haki; the "color" could be innate, so they could be "born" with it. Would just need to develop it from there.
• While I cannot find anything that says you need to be born with the ability, it is suggested since (at least) Aisa is explained as to having been born with the ability.
• Rayleigh and Shanks know Haki, so it is likely Roger does. Rayleigh mentioned – during all this "Haki" buildup -- that Roger could 'hear the voice of all things', which we assume might have been Haki, while also being very similar to Mantra. Mentioned below.
• The Skypiea people and the priest in the Jaya flashback all refer to Mantra and hearing the voices of living things. IE: Aisa knowing when people died.
• Sandersonia uses an identical ability that is yet to be explained, but the chapter seems to emphasize that it was somewhat unique to Sandersonia.
• Different people had varying levels of Mantra. Haki seems to already be suggesting that different "colors" allow different strengths and abilities in the use of Haki.

I find it interesting that Luffy didn't have any thought bubble that related what Sandersonia did to Mantra. Usually this type of thing would happen, but perhaps Oda didn't want to be too obvious. I remember saying back then (Skypiea Arc) that I had wished Luffy would learn a very basic form (like Satori's) of Mantra.

[/hide]

[blackfoot]

this break down sounds pretty right on so far… i mean.... based on what we know.

@Crampz:

First I would like so say - Great prediction, I first thought it was dead-on when I read it a month ago (almost), but of course - It was just a theory.. When reading the chapter this immediately popped into my head.

I would like to extend on it - I know people get it, but I want to put it into text for future reference..

3 Types of Haki

Type 1 - King's Haki - Shanks, Rayleigh, Luffy, Hancock (Uses Spirit to Cause Fainting)
Type 2 - Mantra - Can hear well enough to predict movements
Type 3 - Breath Of All Things was the name of the chapter I believe.. That said, He could hear steel, rocks, etc. and could cut (Zoro).

Very interesting.. I would say that Asura would be a Haki type move to as said in the thread already. If Haki or 'Spirit' is put only into these three types its hard to put Asura into a type, I would assume there may be more, however, if there are these three Asura would still fit into 'The Breath of all things'.

I say this because - Type 1 = Spirit in terms of lower people (weaker than you) are subject to fainting.

Type 2 is like Mantra, which was shown again in the chapter (519).

Type 3 the Snake sisters also used Type 3 (making their attacks hurt Luffy despite being Rubber).

That said, I believe Type 1 Haki is birth-related and 'chosen one' as stated, where the other two can be learned. The Snake sisters were using Types 2 and 3 simutaneously (sp?)

Rayleigh obviously had Type 1 Haki, but also did Type 3 (because he hit Kizaru)
Very very interesting..

So in short.

Type 1 - Spirit Faint
Type 2 - Prediction
Type 3 - Attacking

Zoro learned the attacking type of Haki(Type 3) quite early (Arabasta)
And Type-2 was shown in Skypiea. Type one was not shown until Shanks boarded Whitebeards ship..

Does everyone agree with my breakdown? Or is there something to add?

[kabok]

I don't know if someone else said that but maybe Rayleigh is knows as "Dark King" because of his King Haki .

I also don't think that Mantra can be learned , since the ones that have it ( at least on Skypea ) , could use since birth . Well … At least that girl , Aisa , I think .

[Hinscher]

@Crampz:

First I would like so say - Great prediction, I first thought it was dead-on when I read it a month ago (almost), but of course - It was just a theory.. When reading the chapter this immediately popped into my head.

I would like to extend on it - I know people get it, but I want to put it into text for future reference..

3 Types of Haki

Type 1 - King's Haki - Shanks, Rayleigh, Luffy, Hancock (Uses Spirit to Cause Fainting)
Type 2 - Mantra - Can hear well enough to predict movements
Type 3 - Breath Of All Things was the name of the chapter I believe.. That said, He could hear steel, rocks, etc. and could cut (Zoro).

Very interesting.. I would say that Asura would be a Haki type move to as said in the thread already. If Haki or 'Spirit' is put only into these three types its hard to put Asura into a type, I would assume there may be more, however, if there are these three Asura would still fit into 'The Breath of all things'.

I say this because - Type 1 = Spirit in terms of lower people (weaker than you) are subject to fainting.

Type 2 is like Mantra, which was shown again in the chapter (519).

Type 3 the Snake sisters also used Type 3 (making their attacks hurt Luffy despite being Rubber).

That said, I believe Type 1 Haki is birth-related and 'chosen one' as stated, where the other two can be learned. The Snake sisters were using Types 2 and 3 simutaneously (sp?)

Rayleigh obviously had Type 1 Haki, but also did Type 3 (because he hit Kizaru)
Very very interesting..

So in short.

Type 1 - Spirit Faint
Type 2 - Prediction
Type 3 - Attacking

Zoro learned the attacking type of Haki(Type 3) quite early (Arabasta)
And Type-2 was shown in Skypiea. Type one was not shown until Shanks boarded Whitebeards ship..

Does everyone agree with my breakdown? Or is there something to add?

If that was the classification I would put Asura into King's Haki vs. the breath one. It was an illusion type thing that intimidated Kaku. Wasn't it said that he actually doesn't have 6 arms and what not. He was just using it with an attack, it wasn't one itself. So by that classifacation you used, it would fit better in 1.

[nintouryu]

@Greg:

What's interesting about this is, regarding the naming, who do we trust? Skypieans who obviously have a culture that more resembles that of their life on the moon, or the Blue Sea dwellers? Shandia and Skypieans were/are both relatively isolated and both of them refer to it as 'Mantra'. Yet we have pirates in the second half of GL who know their stuff (regarding their history and the world) and (if they are the same) refer to it as Haki. Hmmm…. An interesting scenario.

This is quite interesting,so who is the original founder??or in other word, who has the copyright?? is that what you mean greg?

@Crampz:

First I would like so say - Great prediction, I first thought it was dead-on when I read it a month ago (almost), but of course - It was just a theory.. When reading the chapter this immediately popped into my head.

Well, thank you very much, it's my pleasure.

@Crampz:

I would like to extend on it - I know people get it, but I want to put it into text for future reference..

3 Types of Haki

Type 1 - King's Haki - Shanks, Rayleigh, Luffy, Hancock (Uses Spirit to Cause Fainting)
Type 2 - Mantra - Can hear well enough to predict movements
Type 3 - Breath Of All Things was the name of the chapter I believe.. That said, He could hear steel, rocks, etc. and could cut (Zoro).

Correction…(in my version)
Type 3 is that imbued stuff, breath of all things is Type2(mantra) because by hearing the breath of the rocks, zoro knows where it wouldn't fall,
so it should go like this:

Type 1 - King's Haki - Shanks, Rayleigh, Luffy, Hancock (Uses Spirit to Cause Fainting)
Type 2 - Mantra - Can hear Breath Of All Things predict movements
Type 3 - Imbued weapon with the will of the wielder.

so actually zoro used 2 types of haki when fighting daz bones.
1. he's using type 2 when he predict the movement by hearing the breath of all things
2. using type 3 when cutting daz bones stell body,

@Crampz:

Very interesting.. I would say that Asura would be a Haki type move to as said in the thread already. If Haki or 'Spirit' is put only into these three types its hard to put Asura into a type, I would assume there may be more, however, if there are these three Asura would still fit into 'The Breath of all things'.

I say this because - Type 1 = Spirit in terms of lower people (weaker than you) are subject to fainting.

Type 2 is like Mantra, which was shown again in the chapter (519).

Type 3 the Snake sisters also used Type 3 (making their attacks hurt Luffy despite being Rubber).

That said, I believe Type 1 Haki is birth-related and 'chosen one' as stated, where the other two can be learned. The Snake sisters were using Types 2 and 3 simutaneously (sp?)

Rayleigh obviously had Type 1 Haki, but also did Type 3 (because he hit Kizaru)
Very very interesting..

Very interesting indeed, hope that oda will give us an explaination soon…

@Crampz:

So in short.

Type 1 - Spirit Faint
Type 2 - Prediction
Type 3 - Attacking

Zoro learned the attacking type of Haki(Type 3) quite early (Arabasta)
And Type-2 was shown in Skypiea. Type one was not shown until Shanks boarded Whitebeards ship..

So true…..

[KIRIN]

btw how rare do you guys think Haki users are?

I mean in the BB vs. Ace battle, BB said that Ace probably hasnt been "hit" in a long time.

I guess that means Ace hasnt met/fought any Haki users?

(assuming haki does cancel DF powers)

[Crampz]

I also don't think that Mantra can be learned , since the ones that have it ( at least on Skypea ) , could use since birth . Well … At least that girl , Aisa , I think .

I completely forgot about Aisa, you're correct. Aisa had it from birth, but this kind of screws with Zoro's ability to 'learn' Haki… Zoro used two forms of Haki - Breath of All things AKA Mantra, and wielding will in weaponry. If we can say that type-3 can be learned than the theory stands.. Type 1 and 2 are birth-related, however, I find it strange that if Zoro did infact use Type-2 Haki, why is it that he cannot predict movements - Mantra like the Skypiean Priests? Why is it that he can only hear the breath of Steel and whatnot to use with his wielding will?

I find it doesn't fit quite yet.. Perhaps we can come to a conclusion to make sense of it without further information from chapters :P

[nintouryu]

@Crampz:

I completely forgot about Aisa, you're correct. Aisa had it from birth, but this kind of screws with Zoro's ability to 'learn' Haki… Zoro used two forms of Haki - Breath of All things AKA Mantra, and wielding will in weaponry. If we can say that type-3 can be learned than the theory stands.. Type 1 and 2 are birth-related, however, I find it strange that if Zoro did infact use Type-2 Haki, why is it that he cannot predict movements - Mantra like the Skypiean Priests? Why is it that he can only hear the breath of Steel and whatnot to use with his wielding will?

I find it doesn't fit quite yet.. Perhaps we can come to a conclusion to make sense of it without further information from chapters :P

Regarding this matter, I think it's like, some people had a natural gift and some people don't, just like some people had a natural music gift, just like mozart, and some people don't, but you still can learn, well… that's my appinion, but as you said :
@Crampz:

I find it doesn't fit quite yet.. Perhaps we can come to a conclusion to make sense of it without further information from chapters :P

[Greg]

This is quite interesting,so who is the original founder??or in other word, who has the copyright?? is that what you mean greg?

In a nutshell yes.

In other words, which is it REALLY? Is it a haki called mantra? Did ancient people call haki mantra? Or did it become so rare amongst Shandia and Skypieans that they forgot the name of it?

[h3h3h3]

@KIRIN:

btw how rare do you guys think Haki users are?

I mean in the BB vs. Ace battle, BB said that Ace probably hasnt been "hit" in a long time.

I guess that means Ace hasnt met/fought any Haki users?

(assuming haki does cancel DF powers)

It's still not confirmed you can hit logia with Haki.

[brennen.exe]

@Greg:

Did ancient people call haki mantra?

In the Jaya flashback it seemed like the priests didn't know what Mantra was. Didn't the whole spilling of blood on the alter thing come about by them hearing voices and such? I would say Ma–- wait, I just realized you didn't specify who you meant by "ancient people". Now that I think about it, Enel and Satori we both natives to the sky islands. Aisa was a Shandian who was obviously born after Enel took over, so the Shandian's could very well have taken the name "Mantra" from the Sky dwellers (like Enel). Bah, I'm rambling.

@h3h3h3:

It's still not confirmed you can hit logia with Haki.

For the record, it is also not confirmed you can hurt someone with a Devil's Fruit just by using Haki. Only that you can hurt someone with a rubber body.

[GoustiFruit]

Do you think that Ace mastered haki ?

[Zik]

@GoustiFruit:

Do you think that Ace mastered haki ?

HA!

Lets hope not cuz that will lead to theories that BB's DF can go up against a haki user OR BB is also a master haki user.

[GoustiFruit]

I hope that no member of WB crew use haki; I hope that they are only made of superpowerful characters, using DF or not. And that even WB doesn't master haki. It would be nice to have different kind of groups of pirates in the NW, those who have a monstruous strengh, those with powerful DF, those who can master haki, and those who have everything (plus DF ;-)
WB crew could be composed of a lot of DF users, and a lot of logias. Shanks crew could be expert in haki (we have no info on any member using DF). Some other crew could be made of super-strong fighters (maybe with a lot of Zoan DF). And then they'd be Luffy's :-) I'm sure Zoro and Sanji will master a type of haki soon, if not already.

PS: by the way, anyone thinks that SH crew could incorporate another DF user ? Logia ? I'm not sure if DF are still interesting in the NW…

[CodedTech]

@Crampz:

Type 2 is like Mantra, which was shown again in the chapter (519).

Type 3 the Snake sisters also used Type 3 (making their attacks hurt Luffy despite being Rubber).

That said, I believe Type 1 Haki is birth-related and 'chosen one' as stated, where the other two can be learned. The Snake sisters were using Types 2 and 3 simutaneously (sp?)

Marigold never used mantra. While Sandersonia never harmed Luffy in the same fashion that Marigold did (from what I recall.) At the same time Sandersonia was unable to harden her body either.

So it was basically Sandersonia using haki to predict and then Marigold using it to agument her body, resulting in increased efense/offense (assuming she didn't actually nullify he devil fruit.)