Link: Did a search and found nothing. So Urouge was using Haki to buff himself up?
I don't think so. "Ambition" in that scan is probably a mistranslated word, since the other translations made no mention of it. In particular Stephen's Trans makes no mention of it. Would have to ask someone more knowledgeable with Japanese to check the original raw though. Outside of that, I made some speculation back in the spoiler thread of that chapter. Here are my two posts: Post #1 / Post #2.
@Fiasco.:
Alright, Ray said Roger could hear all things.
Zoro expressed the ability the hear the breathing of things.
Enel and Gandfall show the ability to hear things thus predict movements.
So it's not weird in the least bit how I decided that these three could all be connected, and it would be weird if they were DF abilities.
So it is a theory for a reason, not proven, it is a theory that Haki could have different forms, all of which Roger could have mastered and all types used in battle.
So you support one speculation with another?
When was it stated that what Zoro did was haki? it's just as unlikely as haki being the reason Roger was able to hear all things.
Ganfall never showed an ability to hear things or predict movements. Enel has mantra which is NOT haki. That's just building a theory on speculation on top of more speculation.
Mantra is an ability, I would say you are born with(I could be wrong but it's more likely than it being haki since if it was how come a little girl learned it but Wiper who is a fighter didn't?)
Haki is a technique/ability that you can learn and develop, so far all it has shown is that you can imbue it in to weapons to make them stronger and make ppl with a weak determination/ambition/will faint.
What Zoro did seems more like a special event/situation a swordsman would go through when ascending to another level of skill, not something all people would go through.
But w/e I'll go with Roger having an unnamed Df until proven wrong.
Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
But w/e I'll go with roger having an unnamed Df until proven wrong.
And i'll go with Haki, mantra might not be connected but there is a possibility the others are. Also this isn't really the thread for this but I really hope Roger didn't have a DF.
@Zik:
What Zoro did seems more like a special event/situation a swordsman would go through when ascending to another level of skill, not something all people would go through.
Not that my opinion matters much, but Oda has been intentionally (possibly) giving hints about "Haki" since the beginning of the manga ~~ very subtle hints and spread apart, mind ~~ for a reason. If you think about it, why wait until 500 chapters into the manga to really begin to reveal the nature behind this "Ambition" thing? Personally, I think Oda has a lot more to it than just some random warrior's skill for instant KO's. Again, personally, I think it is easy to link all of those unknown's together into one lump category: Haki. Not saying it will be or should be, but if you think about the nature of the few things we know:
Alright. So take my little notes in there as helpful curiosity to link everything together into a common thread. You can easily see how all of these "unknowns" have something in common. Breath of all things. Voice of all things. Cut what cannot be cut after seeing the breath of all things. Making people pass out with foam at their mouth. Cut what cannot be cut again. Adding extreme power to an otherwise weak projectile. Etc. It can all be summed up by one 'invented device' that Oda has literally used the entire manga up until now to hint at: "Ambition". Of course, this could all just be speculation that gets trashed for something different – but it at least has viable sense and logic, right?
Not that my opinion matters much, but Oda has been intentionally (possibly) giving hints about "Haki" since the beginning of the manga ~~ very subtle hints and spread apart, mind ~~ for a reason. If you think about it, why wait until 500 chapters into the manga to really begin to reveal the nature behind this "Ambition" thing? Personally, I think Oda has a lot more to it than just some random warrior's skill for instant KO's. Again, personally, I think it is easy to link all of those unknown's together into one lump category: Haki. Not saying it will be or should be, but if you think about the nature of the few things we know:
- Shanks made a Sea King cower away and retreat. Seemingly low level Haki or something. Maybe.
- Zoro makes someone foam at the mouth after holding their head in his hand. Why? We don't know. Kinda weird. Just rolled over it as something that just happened.
- Zoro sees the "breath" of everything, allowing him somehow to cut what cannot be cut. Make sense? Not really, iron cutting iron? It is a manga though, so we go with it by assuming that it is some swordsman ability or something.
- Shanks walks on board Whitebeard's ship with his "Ambition" ablaze. Tons of low-level crew members knock out with foam in their mouth for no visible reason as far as we can tell, though we know it was Shanks' doing. Wait….what? Haven't we seen this before??
- Luffy stares down Motobaru telling him they don't need to fight. Motobaru begins to run away and then knocks out foaming from the mouth. Ehh!!? A trend?? Still makes no sense, right?
- Rayleigh is introduced: He does something and a ton of people knock out with foam at their mouth. Ok…seriously? What's going on??
- Hachi: "I think it's called Haki" – Readers: What's that!?!!? Haven't we seen that same effect somewhere??
- Rayleigh mentions that Roger can hear the voice of all things. Hmm, kinda sounds fishy….but haven't I hear something similar to this??
- Rayleigh stops Kizaru's kick somehow….wait, isn't that impossible? Some argue if the Logia user is unaware then you can -- but that has been proven to be more or less incorrect.
- Rayleigh cuts a Logia with his regular sword. Wait, this makes no sense!? He is doing the impossible!!
- Margaret shoots an arrow at Luffy that crushes stone. Luffy comments. Margaret responds by telling him it was imbued with "Ambition" (Haki). Wait a minute, you are telling me "Ambition" can be imbued into an item to do something it normally cannot? Like an arrow breaking a boulder? Sounds fishy….yet familiar.
Alright. So take my little notes in there as helpful curiosity to link everything together into a common thread. You can easily see how all of these "unknowns" have something in common. Breath of all things. Voice of all things. Cut what cannot be cut after seeing the breath of all things. Making people pass out with foam at their mouth. Cut what cannot be cut again. Adding extreme power to an otherwise weak projectile. Etc. It can all be summed up by one 'invented device' that Oda has literally used the entire manga up until now to hint at: "Ambition". Of course, this could all just be speculation that gets trashed for something different – but it at least has viable sense and logic, right?
…Yeah, exactly. I think.
@Fiasco.:
I found this also:
! http://img39.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000066782/07.jpg
Ray says Roger could hear all things, and I would expect the strongest man from the old era to master Haki in all it's forms. This theory about Haki actually seems possible.
I think it is the same ability like Zorro used against Mister 1 because he could hear the breath from all things, too.I don’t count the breath technique to Haki.
Not that my opinion matters much, but Oda has been intentionally (possibly) giving hints about "Haki" since the beginning of the manga ~~ very subtle hints and spread apart, mind ~~ for a reason. If you think about it, why wait until 500 chapters into the manga to really begin to reveal the nature behind this "Ambition" thing? Personally, I think Oda has a lot more to it than just some random warrior's skill for instant KO's. Again, personally, I think it is easy to link all of those unknown's together into one lump category: Haki. Not saying it will be or should be, but if you think about the nature of the few things we know:
I too noticed Oda giving subtle hints since the begining of the manga but I just don't think it is as many as you think.
Zoro makes someone foam at the mouth after holding their head in his hand. Why? We don't know. Kinda weird. Just rolled over it as something that just happened.
I always saw this as him squeezing her head with his hand until she passed out. We've already seen haki doesn't need to be used by touching the person. Zoro's strength is what did that imo. As for the seeing the breath of steel in order to cut it or w/e you quoted what I thought it was.
Rayleigh mentions that Roger can hear the voice of all things. Hmm, kinda sounds fishy….but haven't I hear something similar to this??
I already said it seems it is more likely that it was a DF. We already know Ray can use haki so how come Roger is the only one who has a haki that can allow him to hear all things?
Rayleigh stops Kizaru's kick somehow….wait, isn't that impossible? Some argue if the Logia user is unaware then you can -- but that has been proven to be more or less incorrect.
Rayleigh cuts a Logia with his regular sword. Wait, this makes no sense!? He is doing the impossible!!
It's still not determined that haki allowed Ray to do that. Somebody else said this in another thread but it is possible that Ray figured out the weakness for light and was using it in his fight against Kizaru and we didn't know. I will admit that Oda has been heavy on the haki since so that could be what explains it in that situation.
For the other ones I didn't quote I agree with…..
@Zik:
I always saw this as him squeezing her head with his hand until she passed out. We've already seen haki doesn't need to be used by touching the person. Zoro's strength is what did that imo.
Exactly, but since then we have seen Luffy do it unintentionally, Rayleigh do it, and Shanks do it – all with the same exact effect, and all without much explanation really. That's why I am suggesting there might have been a connection to Zoro's unintentional use. It would definitely make more sense then her being so scared of his strength that she passed out and foamed at the mouth – and strangely coincidental -- and misleading for that matter.
@Zik:
I already said it seems it is more likely that it was a DF. We already know Ray can use haki so how come Roger is the only one who has a haki that can allow him to hear all things?
First, I see no reason to believe Roger had a Devil Fruit. Much less evidence than I have supplied that is for sure. Second, who is to say Haki doesn't have different levels of usage and / or understanding – or for that matter, that Rayleigh and / or other members could not hear all things as well? At the least, I think it is more likely what Roger did was somewhat similar to what Zoro did against Mr. 1, which in return was somewhat similar to what Rayleigh did against Kizaru.
@Zik:
It's still not determined that haki allowed Ray to do that. Somebody else said this in another thread but it is possible that Ray figured out the weakness for light and was using it in his fight against Kizaru and we didn't know.
For the sake of arguing I will also comment on this. I understand it is not "set in stone" that what Rayleigh did was an example of "Haki", but the evidence for is greater than anything else. Another tiny bullet list:
Now, I understand someone could argue two things about Rayleigh: [1] He used a sea stone sword and [2] he knew the weakness to Kizaru. In response to those however I say that if it were in fact a sea stone sword, then Kizaru should not have even been able to block or defend with his DF power – so that is NULL. To the other, I would say that we would have seen a bigger shock come from Kizaru and Sentoumaru than just "Dang, this will be more difficult" -- while at the same time it would seem more likely that other people should have been able to find his weakness too. Also, why would Oda have hidden the secret to Kizaru's power when Rayleigh was theoretically exploiting it? Lastly though, it would just be too convenient that Rayleigh happened to know the secret to the Logia Admiral that showed up. Oh, sure, you could defend by saying he is a wanted pirate and should know these things, but it still seems too convenient to me when no one else (4+ Captains) could do a thing.
It would definately make more sense then her being so scared of his strength that she passed out and foamed at the mouth – and strangely conicident -- and misleading for that matter.
How would that make more sense than her skull was being slowly crushed and she passed out?
First, I see no reason to believe Roger had a Devil Fruit. Much less evidence than I have supplied that is for sure. Second, who is to say Haki doesn't have different levels of usage and / or understanding – or for that matter, that Rayleigh and / or other members could not hear all things as well? At the least, I think it is more likely what Roger did was somewhat similar to what Zoro did against Mr. 1, which in return was somewhat similar to what Rayleigh did against Kizaru.
Now you see that's your bias that Roger was more likely to be using haki. Since when does there need to be evidence to explain or to think it possible a person has a DF ability? Everybody assumed Boa's ability was a DF with no evidence than her power.
Rayleigh's only other fighting we had seen previous was Haki. In fact, he "debuted" the ability named. Meaning he used it enough for Hachi to at least know what it was by name.
That was not a fight, he made a bunch of nuisances pass out.
Margaret shows an arrow "imbued" with Haki that allows for what should not be possible. In the same manner, Rayleigh uses his foot and sword to do what should not be possible.
The arrow pierced through a rock. What Ray did was hit something that was supopose to be intangible. Margret never hinted that imbuing weapons with haki can make it attack elements as well.
@Zik:
How would that make more sense than her skull was being slowly crushed and she passed out?
Well, that would be the only time in the entire story that someone has passed out just from seeing someone else's strength, especially someone who was supposed to be extremely strong. I will concede that it is a possibility, but like I said – it would make more sense to simply link it to another ability that had been hinted at, than having the person knock out rather then just get crushed and tossed to the side. Oda intentionally had her foam at the mouth. Why?
@Zik:
Now you see that's your bias that Roger was more likely to be using haki. Since when does there need to be evidence to explain or to think it possible a person has a DF ability? Everybody assumed Boa's ability* was a DF with no evidence than her power.
*Let's keep in mind what thread we are in. I am not saying there needs to be evidence that a person has a DF ability, merely that you choose to believe he has a DF even though you have no basis, while you criticize everyone else's theories regarding Haki despite the fact that they have a basis for their theories. Does that make sense? I am not biased that Roger used Haki, I am merely using the coincidences and similarities in the series to suggest that it was Haki – and that if so, "who is to say that there are not levels…"
@Zik:
That was not a fight, he made a bunch of nuisances pass out.
That is beside the point. It was a "demonstration" of Rayleigh's abilities then, if that makes it easier to swallow.
@Zik:
The arrow pierced through a rock. What Ray did was hit something that was suppose to be intangible. Margret never hinted that imbuing weapons with haki can make it attack elements as well.
Again, this is beside the point. The point was that Haki can influence items, and do more than just knock people out – and that is confirmed. It is essentially the needle that broke the camels back so to speak. Due to that arrow and comment, we can make a decent basis for these theories. Well, sort of. Ugh, I am digressing. Do you get my point at least? There is enough to make these theories, and they are not as wild as you might think. Right?
Well, that would be the only time in the entire story that someone has passed out just from seeing someone else's strength, especially someone who was supposed to be extremely strong. I will concede that it is a possibility, but like I said – it would make more sense to simply link it to another ability that had been hinted at, than having the person knock out rather then just get crushed and tossed to the side. Oda intentionally had her foam at the mouth. Why?
What do you mean seeing? Zoro wasn't just holding her head like you hold hands with a girl. He was applying pressure, thus the feeling that your head is being crushed. It's not a reach seeing as he was probably more than 10xs stronger than those BW agents.
That is beside the point. It was a "demonstration" of Rayleigh's abilities then, if that makes it easier to swallow.
No it's not your trying to connect his use of haki in that situation in his fight with Kizaru. I stand by the other possibilities of Ray being able to hit Kizaru like he knew the weakness to light and was using it or he possibly has a DF and that is what was negating Kizaru's intangibility.
Again, this is beside the point. The point was that Haki can influence items, and do more than just knock people out – and that is confirmed. It is essentially the needle that broke the camels back so to speak. Due to that arrow and comment, we can make a decent basis for these theories. Well, sort of. Ugh, I am digressing. Do you get my point at least? There is enough to make these theories, and they are not as wild as you might think. Right?
I get your points but I just feel these connections and comparisons are incredibly weak and a reach. They seem less convincing after being questioned
@Zik:
He was applying pressure, thus the feeling that your head is being crushed. It's not a reach seeing as he was probably more than 10xs stronger than those BW agents.
True, I didn't mean seeing with eyes necessarily. I meant "understanding" or "realizing" that he was so much stronger. And this is dodging the question: This would still be the only time this has ever happened in the series; Oda drew her foaming at the mouth for a reason. Why?
@Zik:
No it's not your trying to connect his use of haki in that situation in his fight with Kizaru. I stand by the other possibilities of Ray being able to hit Kizaru like he knew the weakness to light and was using it or he possibly has a DF and that is what was negating Kizaru's intangibility.
As you have every right to believe whichever you want. But what right do you have to criticize others' belief's or theories? Fact remains that this is merely my point of view, and a theory at that. What we were discussing from the beginning was based around your criticism's over others' theories.
And a note: That theory expects me to believe that Rayleigh was covered head to toe (sword included) with whatever it was that allows him to negate Kizaru's fruit – convenient considering he should have been on his way to coat a ship. On top of this, Kizaru sure didn't seem very surprised that someone had figured that out, and Oda [for some reason] decided to let it remain a mystery. Why would he do that when he was already throwing tons of Haki hints around? Just to confuse us!? Lastly, I suggested during the Spoiler thread when Rayleigh first kicked Kizaru's leg that maybe Rayleigh coated himself with the coating resin, but I shot that down myself because it didn't seem very solid a concept. Who knows though? I still refer back to the hints that Oda has been dropping increasingly more and more though.
@Zik:
I get your points but I just feel these connections and comparisons are incredibly weak and a reach. They seem less convincing after being questioned
I am glad you see my points at the least. I like debating, but I get frustrated when the other person is just getting angry and ignores or doesn't understand what I am trying to say. I am curious as to what it is that looks or seems weak about these theories though? And what questions weakened that already weak view. I mean, compared to Roger having a Devil Fruit – which has no basis whatsoever.
Oda drew her foaming at the mouth for a reason. Why?
You'd be surprised from what certain parts of the body can make you foam at the mouth when being squeezed/crushed. Plus she could've just been scared to death.
That theory expects me to believe that Rayleigh was covered head to toe (sword included) with whatever it was that allows him to negate Kizaru's fruit – convenient considering he should have been on his way to coat a ship
Convenient that he showed up at all but w/e the weakness may be he wouldn't need to be covered in it, just his sword and I guess shoes. He dodged all of Kizaru's attacks at him or parried/blocked them. We didn't see how the fight ended so that's yet to be determined.
I mean, compared to Roger having a Devil Fruit – which has no basis whatsoever.
But is more likely than haki since Ray said that only Roger was able to hear all things, if it was haki Ray would be able to do it too.
I am glad you see my points at the least. I like debating, but I get frustrated when the other person is just getting angry and ignores or doesn't understand what I am trying to say.
I never get angry on here or ignore a logical opinion. Even when disrespected(not saying you did) I'd still wouldn't get angry just respond accordingly but anyway I do see and understand what theory you were trying to formulate.
I am curious as to what it is that looks or seems weak about these theories though? And what questions weakened that already weak view.
I asked them earlier in this thread. I can't get with a theory that builds speculation on top of speculation. It's circular logic, your basically saying if this is A and that is A then it's possible this is a form of A and what we thought was B is really just another different enhanced form of A and what could be C is also possible of being A.
Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
@Zik:
You'd be surprised from what certain parts of the body can make you foam at the mouth when being squeezed/crushed. Plus she could've just been scared to death.
The one speech bubble that makes me to believe that Zoro used Haki is „what’s wrong? Where has all your strength gone?”. I think he know she was stronger before but becomes weaker suddenly and that Zoro put even his hand in his pocket. So in my opinion he used Haki and is wondering that she becomes weaker because he doesn’t know that he used a technique like that.
If there would have been even the slightest clue for that elemental stuff to be true we would be seeing it in signatures and versus threads everywhere already.
OK, then lets start in my signature. 
Mihawk the “Hawk Eyes” and the invincible swordsman can cut elements.
@Zik:
You'd be surprised from what certain parts of the body can make you foam at the mouth when being squeezed/crushed. Plus she could've just been scared to death.
I suppose I would be at that, but I still choose to believe Oda drew it with a purpose in mind. I always had been curious as to what made that situation so different, and I feel like Haki might be able to explain it. Maybe not, but I would hope so. Either way, we understand eachother on this point – so we can drop it.
@Zik:
Convenient that he showed up at all but w/e the weakness may be he wouldn't need to be covered in it, just his sword and I guess shoes. He dodged all of Kizaru's attacks at him or parried/blocked them. We didn't see how the fight ended so that's yet to be determined.
True indeed. I suppose he could have done whatever needed doing on his way there, but I still think with all the hints Oda was dropping it would only be misleading to toss that in there without saying "Aha! I know the weakness to Light!". But who knows, right? Oda. We will find out soon enough I suppose.
@Zik:
But is more likely than haki since Ray said that only Roger was able to hear all things, if it was haki Ray would be able to do it too.
I do not think so. What Ray said was: "But you realize Roger couldn't read those runes, don't you? We were pirates. We didn't have the brainpower of Dr. Clover and the Oharans…He just heard......the Voice of All Things. That's all..." This is not saying that only Roger was able to hear all things, and back to my original point, if it was Haki – which I really do not know how I feel about that particular part being Haki -- who is to say that there aren't other levels that Ray doesn't know how to use. Or, perhaps Ray could hear it as well. We don't really know. But, I do not really wish to take this particular point any further as I am only arguing that it has sufficient rights to theory.
@Zik:
I can't get with a theory that builds speculation on top of speculation. It's circular logic, your basically saying if this is A and that is A then it's possible this is a form of A and what we thought was B is really just another different enhanced form of A and what could be C is also possible of being A.
While your example is confusing to follow, I understand your point. I was just curious because I thought you were referring to my posts. Either way, in my case it would be if B is correct, than theories A and C could be connected. Since more or less all of my examples were similar in nature to eachother.
I think we have more or less wrapped this one up though.
Not to intrude between Brennen.exe's and Zik's argument but I'd like to repost something from the 516 spoiler chap regarding Haki.
–-------------------------------------------------------
Here is my take on the whole 'Haki' issue.
I think most of you are overreacting regarding the matter. I think that in reality Haki will become somewhat of a staple in the New World but you guys are overestimating the power you acquire by being able to use this technique.
The whole making-people-fall-to-the-floor-with-foaming-mouths has only been displayed by Shanks (one of the Four Pirate Emperors) and Rayleigh (the first mate of the Pirate Fucking King). Of course these people have incredible ambitions and would be able to project a sense or aura which would be more powerful the anything a fodder pirate can muster.
Aokiji, Kikzru and Sentoumaru as well as Kuma, Moria etc... have proven to be incredibly powerful and I am sure that to a certain extent the do in fact know how to use Haki. But that doesn't mean they can use it to the extent that the aforementioned guys can.
In general the StrawHats have been pretty weak in information regarding what's going on in the world (obviously for storytelling purposes). They didn't know about log poses, Grand Line navigation, Shichibukai, Admirals, EL, CP1-CP8. They are pretty naive in this world and that is how it always is with the main characters because if they know everything then the story cannot be told. Hell they hadn't even heard of any other Supernovae whereas all the others seemed to know/have heard of each other. So it makes sense that Haki has been around/being used without them knowing.
While Naruto/DBZ/etc chose to base the manga on such techniques, One Piece developed the characters, other crews and then decided to introduce the whole 'chi' idea at a later stage.
In the same fashion that SSJ/Sharingan would be an analogy to Luffy's Gears (hard to sustain, possibly dangerous at first, but then a relatively common and staple technique (which will happen with Luffy's Gears)), hake is really an easy thing to map an analogy to. Instead of using the obvious Chi/Over 9000 analogy I'm going to compare Haki to skateboarding. The numbers used below are only for educational purposes and probably aren't accurate, but they give a pretty clear picture.
50% of people don't skate at all.
10% of people have skated at some point but don't do it regularly.
40% of people can skate properly.
Out of the 40% skaters:
80% can skate from point A to point B as a method of stress release or maybe to get somewhere easier.
15% enjoy trying tricks in skate parks/half pipes etc...
5.9999999996268656716417910447761% can perform tricks in a fairly professional level.
0.000000000373134328358208955224% is Tony Hawk.
I don't skate but you see my point. Only one person in the world is Tony Hawk. Sure many people have used Haki but only very, very few are powerful enough to be impressive.
Not to intrude between Brennen.exe's and Zik's argument.
Discussion. No worries though, we were finished.
Edit: Cool, I'm part of a 5.9999999996268656716417910447761 percentile!!
I must admit that brook is a complicate case. His whole body died. So the DF power has to take his mind state (as the brain is a complicated connection of nerves and if you can save all these connections….) just beforre the death then it would saved the whole personality of brook. Maybe we can talk here about electric connections/wires (when it comes to the brain). The Df must have created a backup of these state (mentioned as the soul) and let it then come back to his body after his death. As this backup is just electricity it had the ability to float through the air (in the fog
which is basicaly evaporated water). This backup of his brain came then to a rotten body and somehow reintegrated it. This is where i allow some irational stuff cause i don't have any good idea at how he manage to move his squeleton but hey it's a shonen :) Maybe that he gained the ability to move the cells and attract them with a strong magnetic field. I dunno.
.. hard to say if i should laugh or raise my thumbs ^^
After all, common biophysics know nothing about soul inprints, electrical storage of the whole brain etc. (or, yeah, maybe one point: rather than taking the brain as a set of wires take it as a set of nodes which are connected…) BUT as i really like sheldrakes theory of a morphogenetic field i admit there is the possibility of an free-form soul imprint on the search for a new host; aka. a ghost.
my favorite part is how you let us know that you've been thinking this ever since shanks looked at the sea king. yeah, that was sweet.
The Haki Frequency? It's 4.242564 Hertz. Not to be confused with Brown Noise.
I'm like Hisotensoku: Not here to preserve peace, nor to destroy it. I certainly can't move mountains. Mostly, I'm just full of hot air.- Meh
@_Meh_:
The Haki Frequency? It's 4.242564 Hertz. Not to be confused with Brown Noise.
LOL, this makes me think there could be a sound Df where the user can use the brown note as an attack.
my favorite part is how you let us know that you've been thinking this ever since shanks looked at the sea king. yeah, that was sweet.
Well, that really wasn't all that long ago though. I started reading OP when there were like a 200 chapters out or something and almost read straight through it
anyway, that would be quite fast though but actually mean that, now that something that negates DF's (probably) is being shown I already thought that it would exsist somehow and that it would have to do with frequencies. That's more accurate. So not from first chapter off course cause a bit more info was needed!
it's good to see other people's appinion, thanks
The one speech bubble that makes me to believe that Zoro used Haki is „what’s wrong? Where has all your strength gone?”. I think he know she was stronger before but becomes weaker suddenly and that Zoro put even his hand in his pocket. So in my opinion he used Haki and is wondering that she becomes weaker because he doesn’t know that he used a technique like that.
Meh, that's a reach and if true it'll never be revealed.
I'm impressed you managed to come up with a science-sounding explanation for this one. Actually, this is one of the things I can't come up with a scientific explanation. But there are still questions that needs to be addressed if you'll try to explain that phenomenon this way. Why does Brooke called that fog as soul? In your interpretation, you seem to say that there is a scientific explanation for souls. And I believe there have been some incidents in OP which involved souls, like that of Nami's foster mother who pushed Nami away of her house. And I wonder why that soul/fog came from the skies, beyond the clouds (that's what I watched in the anime. Tell me if it's different from the manga). It is suggesting the very common notion of souls: that they reside in the heavens which IMO can't be explained scientifically.
if i really understand your first question my answer to it will be: Brooke called the fog the soul because he don't have an explanation to it. Things that you cannot explain have always been stated as mystical etc… Many would say that the GL is mystical. I speculate that the strong magnetic fields are the reasons of circular rainbows or serpent waves etc...
The story with namis foster mother who pushed nami out of the house is personally new to me. Maybe that i forgot it. I said in my post that if you want to "save" the state of the brain (the whole electric impulses/connections representing your personality your wishes, your dreams, your qualities etc) you must duplicate it somehow. In the fog you can let electricity circulate (high concentration of evaporated sea water). Maybe that the fog that everyone sees at a soul is just a high concentration of evaporated water where a copy of the brain state exists thus making it possible for dead people to think after the death. See the clouds molecules (water + other stuff) as the nerves that just hold the same electric impulses like the brain. Your personality is saved and you have a life after death in your little fog/cloud and everybody shit his pants full if they see you cause you're a freaky ghost now :) So If namis mother came from the sky then it's pretty obvious that her state of mind was somehow saved in the sky clouds. Well i said that i can't recall it in the manga.
This thread still open? Hm?
I guess i'll contribute to the semi-deceased discussion by saying I don't agree with this frequency fiasco.
i honestly dont know why anyone starts these threads anymore, why would any1 go through all the effort to create a decent theory with facts and info to back there theory, coz at the end of the day 90% of the people that comment just critisize and complain, make mountains out of molehills and overall completely ruin the forum….
gr8 theory, i cant wait to see if its right, or close
i honestly dont know why anyone starts these threads anymore, why would any1 go through all the effort to create a decent theory with facts and info to back there theory, coz at the end of the day 90% of the people that comment just critisize and complain, make mountains out of molehills and overall completely ruin the forum….
gr8 theory, i cant wait to see if its right, or close
I remember you, the guy with the "Luffy's 4th gear is aura" and you made it your name and everything. lol.
Mihawk is like Kanye West…ppl only scared of him bcuz hes kinda crazy and dangerous...hes only got 1 friend Jayz i mean Shanks no 2 mention hes really cocky too and nobody in the OP world likes him..mayb kanye has a long black sword too!!
@Fiasco.:
I remember you, the guy with the "Luffy's 4th gear is aura" and you made it your name and everything. lol.
Why do you write in this thread? Are you trying to troll. If you haven't any arguments against or for our theories then …. you know what you have to do.
Why do you write in this thread? Are you trying to troll. If you haven't any arguments against or for our theories then …. you know what you have to do.
Do you want me to repeat what others have already said, is that an arguement in your eyes? Or is it that you can't see the obvious signs that i'm against this theory?
Haki being in frequency with the soul of all thing is a bit of a stretch in my opinion, Oda isn't the kind of person to complicate things, that is why I don't agree with this theory.
Happy?
Mihawk is like Kanye West…ppl only scared of him bcuz hes kinda crazy and dangerous...hes only got 1 friend Jayz i mean Shanks no 2 mention hes really cocky too and nobody in the OP world likes him..mayb kanye has a long black sword too!!
@Fiasco.:
Do you want me to repeat what others have already said, is that an arguement in your eyes? Or is it that you can't see the obvious signs that i'm against this theory?
What are you talking about?
@Fiasco.:
Haki being in frequency with the soul of all thing is a bit of a stretch in my opinion, Oda isn't the kind of person to complicate things, that is why I don't agree with this theory.
That's an argument to something that wasn't stated in this thread. If you saw this statement here correct me if i'm wrong.
@Fiasco.:
happy?
Stop acting like a child. A discussion runs like that: I say something with arguments. Then you come with i like it because … arguments... or with i don't like because of ... arguments...
Just saying "i don't like it" to a theory with arguments is not really intelligent.
@Fiasco.:
Do you want me to repeat what others have already said, is that an arguement in your eyes? Or is it that you can't see the obvious signs that i'm against this theory?
Don't say anything if you can't contribute. Yeah…
What are you talking about?
That's an argument to something that wasn't stated in this thread. If you saw this statement here correct me if i'm wrong.
Stop acting like a child. A discussion runs like that: I say something with arguments. Then you come with i like it because … arguments... or with i don't like because of ... arguments...
Just saying "i don't like it" to a theory with arguments is not really intelligent.
yeah, i'm a child? Very mature of you to act as if you don't understand a word I said and dismiss it as child-like behavior.
Don't say anything if you can't contribute. Yeah…
LOL, I find it funny that you now come to this thread seeing as how you failed to muster up even an arguement against me in another one.
Mihawk is like Kanye West…ppl only scared of him bcuz hes kinda crazy and dangerous...hes only got 1 friend Jayz i mean Shanks no 2 mention hes really cocky too and nobody in the OP world likes him..mayb kanye has a long black sword too!!
@Fiasco.:
yeah, i'm a child? Very mature of you to act as if you don't understand a word I said and dismiss it as child-like behavior.
LOL, I find it funny that you now come to this thread seeing as how you failed to muster up even an arguement against me in another one.
You said haki IS IN FREQUENCY WITH the soul/spirit of all things whereas flandrian said that haki IS THE FREQUENCY OF the soul or DF. There is a difference. My theory goes further. I guess you have read it and want to say something to it?
@Fiasco.:
LOL, I find it funny that you now come to this thread seeing as how you failed to muster up even an arguement against me in another one.
What are you talking about? And you didn't get my satire mr. Sarcasm.
What is so complicate abou the fact that someone is able to get to a high concentration level to modify the fields of all your cells to match the one of your opponent who use a DF power and negate it. I find this explanation simple enough. And this is what i think haki can be.
What is so complicate abou the fact that someone is able to get to a high concentration level to modify the fields of all your cells to match the one of your opponent who use a DF power and negate it. I find this explanation simple enough. And this is what i think haki can be.
I guess it was a wrong choice of words on my part, less complicated but more unlikely. The thought of that being possible would make Oda have to take a scientific approach to Devil Fruit, and the best part about DF are their "Magical" abilities.
Then you have the fact that this is already disproven. To me, it seems your saying Haki can negate DF abilities and that's all it's good for. But that is wrong with AMazon being able to imbed their weapons with Haki, and people being able to intimidate others with it. Your theory and the facts from the manga don't fit in my eyes, unless there is more to your theory?
Mihawk is like Kanye West…ppl only scared of him bcuz hes kinda crazy and dangerous...hes only got 1 friend Jayz i mean Shanks no 2 mention hes really cocky too and nobody in the OP world likes him..mayb kanye has a long black sword too!!
First Oda said in a SBS that vegapunk will come and explain how DF works. We all know that Vegapunk is a a unique genius so he will not come with an unclear theory about how these DF work. That's also the motivation of trying to explain Haki and DF with scientific approaches (at least from my side).
I will repeat myself about how i think haki can be explained. We all know that objects consist of atoms and that there are binds between the atoms attract each others thus forming a mesh that is in a macroscopic view the object we're talking about. If you're able to modify the binding between the atoms then you can also modify the shape of the object, transform it into another etc… So let's talk about the haki arrows of the amazons. They have clearly a destructive power so they have been for a moment really hard. After hiting the rock they became normal? Or maybe that just the head of the arrow was really hard. We can assume that the amazons know a way to modify bindings of the atoms of the arrows head so that it become hard as diamond.
As for the intimidation. We saw shanks using it to save luffy and on WB ship, and Rayleigh to knock out the weak slave hunters. Every brain emits magnetic fields. So every person in the OP world that have mastered haki will be able to emit a Magnetic field burst if they focus their energy. Electricity runs through your head so it's possible that they overstimulate the nerves and then produce that Field burst. Anyway how can that knock out other people you wil ask? I think that everyone that is not strong enough to produce a counter to this field will be overwhelmed and it will distrub your nerves so that you may faint. The key is to produce a strong wave like the one that is using this haki burst do. This will negate the attack leaving you unharmed.
How can haki also negate DF power? DF power change the binding of your atoms and allows you to control it. Then logia are able nearly invincible as they can scatter their atoms as they want. If you can produce a strong magnetic field that can block the "modified atoms binding" of the DF user and reverse it you will be able to do damages to their body. Luffy is rubber then haki users will reverse the effect of the rubber DF power and block its effect on Luffys body thus being able to harm him. I see luffys power like that: his DF power allows his atoms to disperse but not too much so that they fly away leaving him in a dead state. They do that when he attacks or when he receive punches. If you're adding more electricity to the atoms they will attract themself more and return to their original state. But i feel that i'm saying crap here and this is why i want a physician to correct myself here :) I mean is it 100% correct that the binding between the atoms is due to their electrical nature and that you can change that if you add electricty to it? BB DF power demonstrate well how the DF power blocking theory works. But here he can do that with his DF not with haki. Maybe that he failed to master haki and thus waited a long time to find a DF that has one effect of haki?
Another theory came to my mind now: Everyone that came in touch with high electricity gets paralysed for a moment of forever(lol …). If a haki user is able to infuse electricity to your atoms and block their abilities to disperse or to have a stronger binding then their original state then he ca also infuse more to attack your nerve system and paralyse you? But i doubt that someone has achieved this level :)
First Oda said in a SBS that vegapunk will come and explain how DF works. We all know that Vegapunk is a a unique genius so he will not come with an unclear theory about how these DF work. That's also the motivation of trying to explain Haki and DF with scientific approaches (at least from my side).
I will repeat myself about how i think haki can be explained. We all know that objects consist of atoms and that there are binds between the atoms attract each others thus forming a mesh that is in a macroscopic view the object we're talking about. If you're able to modify the binding between the atoms then you can also modify the shape of the object, transform it into another etc… So let's talk about the haki arrows of the amazons. They have clearly a destructive power so they have been for a moment really hard. After hiting the rock they became normal? Or maybe that just the head of the arrow was really hard. We can assume that the amazons know a way to modify bindings of the atoms of the arrows head so that it become hard as diamond.
As for the intimidation. We saw shanks using it to save luffy and on WB ship, and Rayleigh to knock out the weak slave hunters. Every brain emits magnetic fields. So every person in the OP world that have mastered haki will be able to emit a Magnetic field burst if they focus their energy. Electricity runs through your head so it's possible that they overstimulate the nerves and then produce that Field burst. Anyway how can that knock out other people you wil ask? I think that everyone that is not strong enough to produce a counter to this field will be overwhelmed and it will distrub your nerves so that you may faint. The key is to produce a strong wave like the one that is using this haki burst do. This will negate the attack leaving you unharmed.
How can haki also negate DF power? DF power change the binding of your atoms and allows you to control it. Then logia are able nearly invincible as they can scatter their atoms as they want. If you can produce a strong magnetic field that can block the "modified atoms binding" of the DF user and reverse it you will be able to do damages to their body. Luffy is rubber then haki users will reverse the effect of the rubber DF power and block its effect on Luffys body thus being able to harm him. I see luffys power like that: his DF power allows his atoms to disperse but not too much so that they fly away leaving him in a dead state. They do that when he attacks or when he receive punches. If you're adding more electricity to the atoms they will attract themself more and return to their original state. But i feel that i'm saying crap here and this is why i want a physician to correct myself here :) I mean is it 100% correct that the binding between the atoms is due to their electrical nature and that you can change that if you add electricty to it? BB DF power demonstrate well how the DF power blocking theory works. But here he can do that with his DF not with haki. Maybe that he failed to master haki and thus waited a long time to find a DF that has one effect of haki?
Another theory came to my mind now: Everyone that came in touch with high electricity gets paralysed for a moment of forever(lol …). If a haki user is able to infuse electricity to your atoms and block their abilities to disperse or to have a stronger binding then their original state then he ca also infuse more to attack your nerve system and paralyse you? But i doubt that someone has achieved this level :)
So you believe Haki is the ability to modify and control atoms? That, I do believe is kind of a stretch. One Piece seems like the kind of manga that keeps things simple and understandable, like for instance; Seastone, how does it nullify DF? They explain that it is like the harden form of the sea. Stuff like that, not exactly logical, but acceptable. Get what i'm saying?
Mihawk is like Kanye West…ppl only scared of him bcuz hes kinda crazy and dangerous...hes only got 1 friend Jayz i mean Shanks no 2 mention hes really cocky too and nobody in the OP world likes him..mayb kanye has a long black sword too!!
You guys are talking about atoms? lol man when will it end?
I think it's time you guys just wait until it's proven and see how wrong you were or by some miracle how right you were
@Zik:
You guys are talking about atoms? lol man when will it end?
I think it's time you guys just wait until it's proven and see how wrong you were or by some miracle how right you were
Go back to your Hancock is Luffy's mom theories. D:
Mihawk is like Kanye West…ppl only scared of him bcuz hes kinda crazy and dangerous...hes only got 1 friend Jayz i mean Shanks no 2 mention hes really cocky too and nobody in the OP world likes him..mayb kanye has a long black sword too!!
I wonder how powerfull Luffy will be if he gets powered up by Haki??
@Fiasco.:
Go back to your Hancock is Luffy's mom theories. D:
I shit on those theories just like I shit on these lol….........
Full time job I swear lol, hopefully the trolls do overtime with this upcoming week. I need to be entertained.
Oh and I think haki can best be compared to how they use ki in Samurai Deeper Kyo, it can make ppl faint and is unbearable for weak ppl when a strong person exerts it. As for the imbuing objects with it and possibly your own body I'll call it a sophisticated extension.
Hopefully haki doesn't end up like nen from HXH and you got categories you can specialize in and there are countless possibilities for powers you can come up with. Then humans in the NW won't need to fear a strong Df user at all.
I'm not fond of haki that much but I do feel it's needed and this is not a knock on Oda but if this goes too fa I gotta say it's a bit much for a pirate manga even with the cyborgs.........
@Fiasco.:
So you believe Haki is the ability to modify and control atoms? That, I do believe is kind of a stretch. One Piece seems like the kind of manga that keeps things simple and understandable, like for instance; Seastone, how does it nullify DF? They explain that it is like the harden form of the sea. Stuff like that, not exactly logical, but acceptable. Get what i'm saying?
If i remember correctly smoker has said that the saestone emits the same energy as the sea? So what can it be? A medium that extract the DF energie that helps the user to weaken or strengthen the binding between the atoms. Ok let say that at the end the result is extracting the DF power. So how can it work… If the energy it emits is just Strong magnetic waves that negate the impact A DF has on the binding between the atoms?
Another point i want to stress. I don't even expect Oda to go this far. But Vegapunk is a genius scientist. So we don't expect him to explain how a df works with "it's magic and God or the evil just borrows you some of his power" .... It's now just fun to build a good scientific explanation to it.
Here is my take on the whole 'Haki' issue.
I think most of you are overreacting regarding the matter. I think that in reality Haki will become somewhat of a staple in the New World but you guys are overestimating the power you acquire by being able to use this technique.
The whole making-people-fall-to-the-floor-with-foaming-mouths has only been displayed by Shanks (one of the Four Pirate Emperors) and Rayleigh (the first mate of the Pirate Fucking King). Of course these people have incredible ambitions and would be able to project a sense or aura which would be more powerful the anything a fodder pirate can muster.
Aokiji, Kikzru and Sentoumaru as well as Kuma, Moria etc… have proven to be incredibly powerful and I am sure that to a certain extent the do in fact know how to use Haki. But that doesn't mean they can use it to the extent that the aforementioned guys can.
In general the StrawHats have been pretty weak in information regarding what's going on in the world (obviously for storytelling purposes). They didn't know about log poses, Grand Line navigation, Shichibukai, Admirals, EL, CP1-CP8. They are pretty naive in this world and that is how it always is with the main characters because if they know everything then the story cannot be told. Hell they hadn't even heard of any other Supernovae whereas all the others seemed to know/have heard of each other. So it makes sense that Haki has been around/being used without them knowing.
While Naruto/DBZ/etc chose to base the manga on such techniques, One Piece developed the characters, other crews and then decided to introduce the whole 'chi' idea at a later stage.
In the same fashion that SSJ/Sharingan would be an analogy to Luffy's Gears (hard to sustain, possibly dangerous at first, but then a relatively common and staple technique (which will happen with Luffy's Gears)), hake is really an easy thing to map an analogy to. Instead of using the obvious Chi/Over 9000 analogy I'm going to compare Haki to skateboarding. The numbers used below are only for educational purposes and probably aren't accurate, but they give a pretty clear picture.
50% of people don't skate at all.
10% of people have skated at some point but don't do it regularly.
40% of people can skate properly.Out of the 40% skaters:
80% can skate from point A to point B as a method of stress release or maybe to get somewhere easier.
15% enjoy trying tricks in skate parks/half pipes etc...
5.9999999996268656716417910447761% can perform tricks in a fairly professional level.
0.000000000373134328358208955224% is Tony Hawk.I don't skate but you see my point. Only one person in the world is Tony Hawk. Sure many people have used Haki but only very, very few are powerful enough to be impressive.
Regardless all of my theories, I do still hope that Haki can't cut logia, I just hope that something like a mirror was on Rayleigh shoes, that makes him couldstop kizaru's kick. Knowledge is power, so actually i was hoping, that with rayleigh experience, he would know each logia's weaknesses.
To me, "Haki" is the "Force" in Starwars. The ability to influence matter, The power to see through the situation. The ability to hear the "voices" of all things.
@Zik:
Meh, that's a reach and if true it'll never be revealed.
I guest you're right, though I still think it's not haki 
I dunno if its been said but what if Zoros asura is like a visible form of haki?
I dunno if its been said but what if Zoros asura is like a visible form of haki?
wow, this is new, I never thought of Zoro's Asura as an Haki form. It is different from any other technique we seen (non DF technique) and Oda have yet given us any explaination. But still I don't think it's haki, I do hope that Oda will give us an explaination soon.
Yeah I hope so. But unless Zoro's eaten a DF in private, its my best guess.
