It's true that I shouldn't speculate so quickly. T believe Oda has the entire story planned out from now until the very end; I actually think he planned it all out while he was doing the Davy Back Fight. I'll always trust Oda to follow up a cliff-hanger like this with something that's gonna make all speculators shut-up, back-off, then applaude.
Chapter 485 "Strawhat Crew Member: Pirate Hunter Zoro" Discussion
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It'd be pretty cool if Zoro only stayed alive until he can finally beat Mihawk and claim the title of strongest swordsman in the world only to croak moments later due to that particular event that happend this chapter.
I know it has probably zero chance of happening, but it'd be a nice twist and would only make the character of Zoro more impressive than it already is.
That'd be interesting since it would pretty much make Zoro the strongest swordsman for eternity, no one would ever get the chance to steal the title away from him, since he'd die at his peak, I think Zoro would love that…
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this chapter more than makes up for the break cant wait for next weeks.
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Just noticed, Nami's hair came undone.
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I'm thinking Hogback did sth to Zoro.That could explain the blood.
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i think hogback will indeed end up helping chopper save zoro's life. i think at this point hogback probably thinks the strawhats are way to weak to prevent absalom from killing them and taking their ship but they will end up getting beat down by luffy. after that i can see hogback telling luffy he will operate on zoro to save his life as long as they let him go. one other reason why kuma was willing to let zoro exchange his life for luffy's is that he once knew dragon or was maybe even on the same crew once.
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Damn, Zoro is willing to give his life in order for Luffy to fulfill his dream (even to beg to Kuma) and Sanji was ready to do the same for Zoro - although his speech seemed more like a desire to go out "in a blaze of glory", so to speak- but nevertheless, he was ready.
And seeing that Zoro lived, Sanji is the only one who really knows what happened between him and Kuma (and I reckon it stays that way). Only time will tell how this will effect the relationship between Zoro and Sanji.
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Kinda happy with this if its the end of Thriller Bark, it shows that Kuma is not at his peak strength leaving him a good main enemy for another arc when Vegapunk is finished upgrading him.
This should also give good development for Zoro, I mean he took all of Luffy's damage plus his own and survived, barely but survived. Typically in shouen manga this will give a big strenght boost after he recovers. It shows that Zoro has gotten pass the point of "if you get in the way of my dream I'll leave" mentality and actually cares for his crewmates, great character development.
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wtf was the purpose of kuma's head cannon?
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It'd be pretty cool if Zoro only stayed alive until he can finally beat Mihawk and claim the title of strongest swordsman in the world only to croak moments later due to that particular event that happend this chapter.
I know it has probably zero chance of happening, but it'd be a nice twist and would only make the character of Zoro more impressive than it already is.
Hmmmmm what if Zoro becomes OPs Bucciarati.
(people who ve read Jojos Bizarre adventure know what I mean) -
much thanks bf 16 charsssss
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Don't what to think… Never imagined that Zoro or Sanji would let their own dream come sencond to Luffys... Even Sanji's to Zoro o_O
But great to see that both of them are able to do it...And zoro was such a motherfucker... Now I have the problem once again... Wh is my fav? Zoro or Sanji... DAMN
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Nice chapter. Seems like Zoro pulled a bit of a Yusuke on us, but awesome nonetheless. Definitely interested on how Zoro's condition will play out.
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Bloody hell, there's enough blood on that final page for at least 3 people. This is going to have some long lasting effects, it has to.
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Time for some cut-and-paste from the spoiler thread, with maybe a little bit of new stuff in between. Sorry for the length of this post, but it's probably the only one I'll be making for a while since I'm really sick today.
But first : Thanks to BF and Co. for the chapter and spoiler scans, and to Ulrilra for the speedy translation!
Damn there is a thing that bugs me… At page 17, Zoro's hand are inside that paw thingy and at the last page we cant see his hands.Wonder if there is a serius injury or just a coincidence.
(excerpt from my spoiler post #839)
I got to thinking about how he shoved his hands into the … umm, what should we call it? "Pain paw?" ... and how that's a pretty stupid thing for a guy who fights primarily with his hands to do to them. Now it could just be Zoro being stupid, but maybe it's an indicator that he was certain he was going to die then, so losing his hands wouldn't matter.In the last picture of the chapter, it looks like he's hiding his hands under his arms -- maybe his hands were seriously injured by the impact, but he wants to minimize the damage to his crewmate so that Sanji won't get all upset about it. Since he's got no other way to hide them, hiding them under his arms and saying "nothing happened" could be a strategy for downplaying his injuries.
It's consistent with Zoro's usual desire to minimize his injuries in front of others (thinking here mostly of Arlong Park, where it wasn't until he'd already fainted a few times that he admitted how badly he was hurt, and even then, only to Sanji – "I'll only last a few seconds").
2)Zoro and Sanji are very close, I mean people don't give Sanji enough credit, he's already been impailed through the heart and took the most damage from Oz, and was willing to sacrifice himself for Zoro's dream (which was very moving) but Zoro outshined him this time, this chapter developed their relationship more.
I think that Sanji fell so quickly from Zoro's strike due to a mix of three things: (1) weakness from previous injuries (2) he was caught off-guard by it (3) it was one of those crewmate-to-crewmate "Fist of Love" type hits – so it had a bigger impact because of that. That he fell so quickly doesn't mean Sanji isn't strong, just that he wasn't in that particular moment.
I agree with you cp9luchi -- as several of us have been saying all along -- Sanji and Zoro are like siblings: in times of peace, they fight constantly over petty stuff, but when there's a serious threat surrounding them, they're the first to take a bullet for each other. And in this chapter, it's mutual. Sanji offers his life for Zoro's, and Zoro knocks out Sanji (yes, it's harsh to do that, but how else would he get Sanji to back down?) in order to save Sanji's life ... So we know that they value each other's lives, even if they aren't very good at showing it from day to day.
can someone please explain me whats with the change of the location?
(from my post # 428 in the spoiler thread)
Isn't it fairly common in Japanese fight-stories to hear someone challenge another to a duel by saying "choose your place to die!" – Kuma's (or his Bible's) catch-phrase ("where would you like to go") could be interpreted as a less blatant version of that challenge, with "...to die" implied instead of stated ...Probably wanted to go there [to the forest] so that nobody else would interfere or be forced to witness his death, but I also like the idea of wanting to die in a forest, because that's what a lot of domestic animals do – wander back into nature and find a secluded spot to die -- so it fits that feral/beast side of Zoro well.
@Aldrich:It'd be pretty cool if Zoro only stayed alive until he can finally beat Mihawk and claim the title of strongest swordsman in the world only to croak moments later due to that particular event that happend this chapter.
Interesting idea.
It would certainly save him from the boredom that Mihawk suffers from …And seeing that Zoro lived, Sanji is the only one who really knows what happened between him and Kuma (and I reckon it stays that way).
Agreed. It's interesting that Sanji is the first person Zoro wants to hide his injuries from, but seems to also be the first person to whom Zoro finally admits the extent of his injuries. Again, that sibling rivalry thing.
Only time will tell how this will effect the relationship between Zoro and Sanji.
Give the ZxS doujin artists about 6 months …
I can hear their collective "SQUEEEE!!!" from across the Pacific as they read this chapter.wink
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Nice chapter. Seems like Zoro pulled a bit of a Yusuke on us, but awesome nonetheless. Definitely interested on how Zoro's condition will play out.
haha, i didnt think about that… it is pretty similar to yuyu h. maybe zoro will get a spirit animal
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Don't what to think… Never imagined that Zoro or Sanji would let their own dream come sencond to Luffys... Even Sanji's to Zoro o_O
But great to see that both of them are able to do it...And zoro was such a motherfucker... Now I have the problem once again... Wh is my fav? Zoro or Sanji... DAMN
It clearly wasn't only for Luffy, but the crew as a whole. As he specfically mentioned that there's nothing else he can do for the crew, just as his speech at the end of the last arc about Luffy taking the Captain role too light was about how the Captain basically holds the crew together.
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1)well everyone was right, there's no way Zoro could take Kuma, this chapter made it pretty danm clear
No one on the SH crew could have handled Kuma. Zoro took what Lufffy took from Moria and more.
2)Zoro and Sanji are very close, I mean people don't give Sanji enough credit, he's already been impailed through the heart and took the most damage from Oz, and was willing to sacrifice himself for Zoro's dream (which was very moving) but Zoro outshined him this time, this chapter developed their relationship more.
LOL, Zoro knocking Sanji out shows they are not close in power at all it shows how Luffy and Zoro are compared in power; dreams and strength!
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Zoro = BADASS MONSTER. he took atk's from ryuuma, odz, and now moria and kuma! zomg!
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Okay, now the whole pain transfer thing seems like less bullshit with the full chapter. Looks like Kuma really does have his own sense of justice, which still seems strange since the world gov should have quite a bit of control over him. Whatever.
I was really touched by Sanji and Zoro's words and actions in this chapter. It seems the bond between comrades is more important than their own greatest ambitions, which have both been huge themes since forever. We haven't really been able to get into Zoro's head much and it was interesting to see him so open about his feelings for the crew since he usually tries to play it down. Sanji's little speech made me think too much of Gokuh's sacrifice during the Cell games, mostly because I'm a DB tard, with his apology and request to Zoro to give the crew his regards. I would've cried buckets if either of them had died, but of course this is One Piece so I wasn't that worried…
A nice dramatic ending to the arc, if it really is over. I just hope Zoro is actually seriously effected by this, as in being crippled or something.
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ug, I am all for Zoro bad ass moments but how in hell does this fit with Kuma's character who was seconds before a government assassin who was fine with killing everyone on the island?
Why are we getting another Aokiji moment? One was enough. Fighting with must resume and atleast meet a draw. Otherwise, he is setting a stupid pattern of win, lose, power up, win and it is getting tiresome. Especially since each loss really should have resulted in death. How many times can the guy who utterly destroys them have merciful moments.(IE clear sign of mercy when Kuma goes from killing everyone on the island to allowing Zoro to stand in for Luffy.)
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Wow.
Awesome chapter, definitely makes up for the break. I must commend Oda for actually making Zoro interesting and cool. I really liked Zoro's little speech, the emotion was really well done.
Looks like Thriller Bark is finally wrapping up; IIRC it's been almost a year.
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Only a high level badass Zoro could make another fellow high level badass Kuma spare non badass crewmates. Sanji… next time grown folks takin close yo mouth. I so glad Zoro didn't get WTF owned, and that everything worked out.
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I have to say, I agree with almost everything Dinty said, but Anointed made me slap my face.
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Kuma's Devil's Fruit powers are probably some of the most versatile ones we've seen in the series. I was a bit confused about them at first, but even after the short time we've seen him he's done so much with them.
It's good to see a Shichibukai who isn't just "Hey, I can do anything because I have the government to back me up!". I thought Kuma's character would be really stoic until this chapter. At first, he wouldn't hesitate to follow orders to kill the Thriller Bark survivors. It's nice to know that at least one of the Shichibukai has a sense of honor, and how he decided to spare the crew after Zoro talked about protecting Luffy.
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Well, it seems Kuma PUSHING perona could be pausible after all. :S
I still wonder why the rock didn't shatter because of the pressure, but maybe Oda wanted to point out that Kuma's pushings are not lethal…....
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A lot of blood?….........I've seen worse. -_-
Carue looked cute on the cover!
Am I the only one who felt bad looking at Nami's body on page 4 when Kuma was walking around?
Ok, my thoughts are done.
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It wasn't like the explosion ripped off all her shirt, plus Robin seemed to be beaten more badly….
If anything, I felt more bad for Lola than for anyone else. It almost looked like if that chunk had crushed her head.
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@The:
A lot of blood?….........I've seen worse. -_-
In the Red Sea? ._.
hur hur hur
Carue looked cute on the cover!
Carue looked like he was ready to open up a freakin' cover story. Come on Carue. You can do it :o :wub:
Am I the only one who felt bad looking at Nami's body on page 4 when Kuma was walking around?
I'vvvve seen worse
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Zoro VS Buggy 1 Liter
Zoro VS Nyaaban Brothers 1.5 Liters
Zoro VS Mihawk 3 Liters
Zoro VS Hacchan & Arlong 5 LitersWonder how many liters are lost this time?
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^He lost more with Mr. 1
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@Lobster:
^He lost more with Mr. 1
Did Oda ever tell us how much blood Zoro lost in that fight?
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Did Oda ever tell us how much blood Zoro lost in that fight?
^Does he ever tell us? o_O
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One time, but that was it.:P
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This chapter almost proves that Kuma's bounty doesn't reflect his power. He got his mechanical enhancements after he became Shichibukai, I assume, as Dr Vegapunk works for the gov't. So that means Kuma > Moria? Dunno.
Weird chapter. I wonder what Kuma's link with Dragon is. It's a bit random him saying Dragon's name without having an individual relationship or association with him.
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Well, now I know what I felt was just wrong with Thriller Bark. Zoro didn't bleed enough during his fights. I guess this chapter makes up for it. squee~ Bloody Zoro:wub:
Anyways, I don't see what's all the hype about ZxS moment. It's really all background romance compared to all the LuffyxZoro rave this chapter is going to create. I bet we'll even see some KumaxZoro. squee /endfangirl
Anyways, so what's up with Kuma? I mean the way things were heading out in the last chapter one would think it would only end in Luffy's death and suddenly Kuma just walks away? How is he going to explain himself?
I think Kuma or maybe even Vegapunk has something to do with Dragon. But who cares, next chapter better be about injured Marimo and/or the fate of the Thriller Bark victims. Isn't Sunny the only working ship around?
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@Cap'n:
Kuma's honor was at stake, so killing Luffy at that juncture was out of the question.
The deal was to spare Luffy's life in exchange for Zoro's.
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Kuma's behaviour here is ruining my enjoyment of Zoro's badassery.
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The way Kuma used his paws to hurl the brick away instantly kinda suggest it was his paw fruit ability afterall that "removed" people away.
BTW, completely off-topic note…
Tokoro Ataru, the man shown in your sig of Bleach comic is Antonio Inoki, a famous retired professional wrestler. No, don't call him "something bad", or you will have Inoki worshippers put you in Octopus Hold to death.http://internet.watch.impress.co.jp/www/article/2002/0829/inoki02.jpg
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Ohh stop complain about zoro badassery it's already 50 page in spoiler tread about it
I wonder is Zoro cut work on Kuma or is Kuma is so fast in self regenerating .and than i through about Kuma Dragon relation . it seems that Kuma respect Dragon and its really unusual because goverment always hate revolutionaries call them terrorist and all , than it must be Kuma known Dragon in person so all of it support that theory of Dragon is former admiral.
Also when you think Kuma is natural enemy for Dragon :
in opworld only two people can move freely between island ,
dragon as an air logia can fly and only way to defeat him is fly or teleport to him and all fly zoan is just to weak to fight dragon so Kuma is only choise for that
Kuma can easely manipulate air pressure and reflect any air attack it is a great advantage against dragon .
and finally he has that pain train move it's not an physical attack so must affect logia user.
so finnaly Dragon is former admiral than he betrayed WG become revolutionary and Kuma designed as human weapon against him .
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@Miss:
Well, now I know what I felt was just wrong with Thriller Bark. Zoro didn't bleed enough during his fights. I guess this chapter makes up for it. squee~ Bloody Zoro:wub:
Anyways, I don't see what's all the hype about ZxS moment. It's really all background romance compared to all the LuffyxZoro rave this chapter is going to create. I bet we'll even see some KumaxZoro. squee /endfangirl
Anyways, so what's up with Kuma? I mean the way things were heading out in the last chapter one would think it would only end in Luffy's death and suddenly Kuma just walks away? How is he going to explain himself?
I think Kuma or maybe even Vegapunk has something to do with Dragon. But who cares, next chapter better be about injured Marimo and/or the fate of the Thriller Bark victims. Isn't Sunny the only working ship around?
Answer this first: Explain himself to who? Who exactly is going to make Kuma pay for disobeying that order? Being the "most obedient" shichibukai doesn't mean he's a completely obedient shichibukai.
It's the same reason Kuma left Thriller Bark–he started to lose favor in the mission when he found the SHs were so weak from that battle. So, he offers sacrifices to save everyone else--in the end Zoro was the one who was sacrifice. It's just his luck that he survived.
Really, I don't get why so many people are upset that Kuma didn't kill anyone--there's a perfectly reasonable explanation outside of "plot." Kuma didn't care for killing them in the first place--fuck the World Government.
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It's also great that we end an arc full of zombies with such a life and death situation. Zoro offers his life to save his crews, endures that fatal pain, and lives anyway thanks to his stamina and I assume will to live. Sweet stuff, ending this arc on a testament to life.
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am i the only one who was a bit teary eyed? after reading the translation it's amazing to think not only zoro but sanji also were willing to give up their dreams and die to save luffy. amazing writing. although the ending is a bit anti-climatic. and the whole "you are dragon's son," bull was just hokey. just something to get fans asking "what is the relationship between Kuma and Dragon?" i'm not falling for it Oda.
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Don't know if it's been posted or not but Franky House has finished their scanlation of this awesome chapter.
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Is it possible for Dr. Vegapunk to be Tom (Franky's Tom), or does the timeline not dictate this possibility?
I honestly can't be sure this is even plausible because I'm not well-versed enough about the mythology to be able to make such a huge claim. It's only a thought.
I hope Oda reveals a lot of Kuma's past later on because his character is awkward. He serves the govt. as its ultimate weapon, but makes his own decisions. Is it possible he was never human, but was a robot (not a cyborg since he has no human biological components) used to commit cruel acts of piracy for the purpose of being placed among the Shichibukai? I think Oda didn't explain a lot on purpose, so he doesn't write himself into a corner.
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Is it possible for Dr. Vegapunk to be Tom (Franky's Tom), or does the timeline not dictate this possibility?
I honestly can't be sure this is even plausible because I'm not well-versed enough about the mythology to be able to make such a huge claim. It's only a thought.
UHHHHHHHHHH
UH WHAT
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These wounds will come back and bite Zoro in the ass eventually.
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This reminds me of berserk, zoro looks like gatts, fucking himself for griffith became the king.
And next chapter must have the explanation for zoro "wounds", and the connection between kuma, vegapunk and dragon…bad english
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This reminds me of berserk, zoro looks like gatts, fucking himself for griffith became the king.
And next chapter must have the explanation for zoro "wounds", and the connection between kuma, vegapunk and dragon…bad english
We probably won't hear anything about that for another 100 chapters