The matter's resolved Jinbei. We're talking about the latest chapter now.
So please don't antagonize others by beating a dead horse.
Concession accepted.
The matter's resolved Jinbei. We're talking about the latest chapter now.
So please don't antagonize others by beating a dead horse.
Concession accepted.
That didn't really answer my question so I guess my earlier assumption was right.
Either way, he is right though in saying that was a rather crappy fight and a bad way for a principal character to be taken out(if Kakashi is in fact dead).
How is he right? whether the fight it sucked or not is all OPINION. and you say its was handle bad when in fact if kishi gave you or Luffy batters what you two wanted it would go against what already is. That would be bad story telling.
Also, he and Zkaiser did provide examples from other series that pertained to their points of view in how a fight against an overpowered foe that results in a character's death can indeed be handled well. It's not their fault you refused to check them out for yourself, nor is it against their point that you haven't seen them so saying it doesn't help their side of the discussion is rather…simple-minded of you.
Wrong when I asked for them to explain it to me? Heck there example of Genkai vs Toguro was worse then what happen to Kaksshi, and as Zkaiser point using Oda and Zoro, kuma etc as an example was debunked. They or anyone else has yet to answer my question or questions on this subject.
You can try tho.
Which I've done plenty of and you none of.
links?
That's Kishimoto's job not mine. All I did was prove it's possible. ZKaiser already gave you examples though even if it was unnecessary.
No, your ignoring the FACT that if that fight truned out the way you wanted it to, it would contradict the story. For the last fucking time, what happen was legit.
Go to One Manga, there are tons of series where deaths against out of league characters were handled well. This could have been one of those but wasn't.
This don't help your argument, for one those are different situations.
My argument was that it's possible for a character to fight another character who is out of his league, have a good fight and have a good death.
That depends on the situation.
How Kishimoto could have done it in this situation was up to him and he failed miserably.
for the last time Point it out for me, what exactly did he fail to do? Coz what happened didn't contradict the story in any way and it was legit for both of his characters.
Because you see Jinbei, it doesn't matter if it made sense. It's supposed to be entertaining AS WELL. Note the AS WELL as in I'm not saying he should ignore the story for entertainment but incorporate BOTH.
Yes it does, that is the reason why Marvel is always in deep shit with there fans. Weather it was entertaining or not is up to the person reading it.
Having Kakashi die in such a lame way, whether it makes sense or not is not an entertaining way for him to die. As to the possibility of even doing it, even if I don't have to address this, I will for the sheer irony of it, it's his story and if he could let Sasuke beat the hachibi despite how unentertaining and senseless it was, he could have given kakashi a decent death like all other mangaka do when they use such a plot device. The ability to balance both consistency of story and entertainment is what marks a true story-teller and Kishimoto definitely can't even provide either let alone balane.
again, your jumping to conclusions.
Then where did it come from? And why did you randomly post it?
I was addressing it.
Because she knows I'm the one who has a point (along with ZKaiser). Quit looking for support for your flawed logic just because you know you lost.
lost what when you ignore all my points?:wassat:
No, it won me the argument.
No it didn't, you win arguments by debunking points, and adding in good points, you on the other hand is doing the opposite, and contradicting yourself.
You're asking me to prove it's possible to have a good epic death against an opponent who's out of that character's league.
I've explained all that there was needed. You just don't want to listen.
No I'm asking you how would you do that for kakashi vs Pain with everything we know about the two with out depowering Pain, and contradicting the story? That is the argument, and you have ignore the question from the start. and No you didn't debunk anything, all you did was name names, and ignore the argument.
I never wrote any form of that post. And if it was someone else, why did you quote it in the middle of my quotes? Fess up, you wrote that and wanted to pretend I did.
I didn't, There no need to do that when you, don't even know how to debate. you must have edited your post.
It's my entire point, it sucked and I showed how it could have not sucked.
Please links me to the post that shows whats in the bold.
if you don't give me what I asked for I will accept your concession.
Because he was an extremely important character? The hell are you doing asking obvious crap. Like Zkaier said, good fight and death does NOT mean fighting equally with Pain. Will you stop ignoring everything that debunks your points.
That does not disprove anything, and Zkaier argument was shoot since
Zkaier points where already debunked. Stop making this debate go back wards.
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=999048&postcount=3762
Follow your own advice.
This is funny, coming from a guy who has yet to answer a simple question, and ignore points not to mention repeat the same thing over and over again. Admit it you have no argument Luffy batter, and are just posting to post.
@Vanessa:
Jinbei, why are you quoting things that Luffy Batter nor anyone else ever wrote down? I mean you're saying the guy edited his posts but I checked and there was never any alterations done so…seems to me you're making up stuff...
Anyway, you two can go back to your little "discussion" now.
This ain't my writing.
Kakashi's death at this point did show off some cool moves form Kakashi, and by sacrificing his life to save Chouji did prove his integrity. What we're lacking is the impact of his death. When Asuma died, we saw shots of everyone in his life–his team and Kurenai. When Jiraya died, though he was alone he reflected on the people he knew in his life, plus we more recently got to see Naruto's reaction. The problem I have with this "death" of Kakashi is that no one important to him knows about it--his body is just alone in a field of debris somewhere. Because of this, in addition to the fact I can't see a fatal wound on him, I'm hoping he' just unconscious.
I didn't make it. But since your here, why don't you, step in let Luffy batter know, that he should stop, with the mindless ranting and try to use his brain to come up with good points?
seems like people are going to get there wish of natsu & gazille vs. luxus. I just hope that Mist Gun get's to fight one of the raijinshuu. That would be utter bullshit if MG just did a small roll this time. You don't show up all bad ass looking just to do a small roll.
but I don't want it.
Go to OneManga and look at the series I listed
That don't help your argument.
What are you drivelling about here?
Do you need help as to understanding what i'm asking from you to prove? thats as simple as I can put it.
The other series I mentioned also had ants fighting dragons. In Air Gear, The Sora brothers were like 10x stronger but it was still a good fight and epic death.
Explain. or stfu.
No I didn't I never wrote any of that, it's not even my writing style though funnily enough it resembles yours-_-
not really, it was there until you edited or it could have been someones else post that I was debating with.
Funny how just now you pulled the subjectivity card and not before. Regardless, Kakashi dying like that is shitty no matter how you slice it.
That does not help your argument, next time come with some good points.
Do you even read Naruto? I think it sucks and even I know how Kakashi ranks on the power scale. Your blind belief in Kishimoto is bordering delusional now.
I was not talking to you, but if you want to enter in on this debate as well, if you know Kakashi ranks on the power scale, why in the heck are you debating for him to have a good fight to his bout with Pain?
Stop contradicting yourself Luffy batter.
You're just grasping at straws now.
That does not help your argument either. Thanks for letting me know you can't disprove anything.
Again other series manage this just fine.
If Kishimoto just used his brains a bit and actually tried to write a decent fight instead of pulling things out of his ass then it might have actually been a decent death.
You didn't even debunk anything I have said. Stop repeating, the same crap that has already been debunked. If kishi gave you what you wanted, it would not be legit to the story or Pain, or Kakashi.
Already did. Give up.
links?
By that logic, nothing can be compared since no other series has two ninjas called Kakashi and Pein fighting with those techniques.
I never asked for that, but if you need me to spoon feed you on this I will be happy to?
It basically involves people dieing a good, epic death and even fighting a good, epic fight with people that are way stronger than themselves. At any rate, ignorance is not an excuse, other mangakas have accomplished this to great effect, if Kishimoto is as great as you think he is, something like this should have been peanuts for him.
That would not even make sense, as I said before. You basically want Kish to contradict himself, about what his character can do and can not do. Having a good fight against an opponent, grants an epic death.
That something Kaksahi can't get, for being so out classed! its like an ant fighting against a dragon, the dragon is not going to go all out to kill a ant who can;t even give him a decent fight. Pain vs Kaksahi was already measured against all the other tough guys Pain has fought out of Kakashi's weight class.
I never wrote that. I hope you're not implying that I did. If you're not then I have no idea what you're doing quoting that since it is irrelevant to this argument.
Oh so looks like you edited, your last post then.
Believe me, I'm with you there. I'm so hoping against hope that Kakashi didn't die because it would be the shittiest character death ever. Regardless, if he did die in such a shitty way, it would be due to Kishimoto's sucky and lazy writing since other mangaka have managed such deaths just fine.
Thats all up to taste and opinion, and the good or bad character deaths usual depend on the situations.
As it may be legitimate story wise, in presentation and in respect to the character, it is very poorly played out.Kakashi is a character that has been in the story over the entirety of the manga and has been thought of as one of the most powerful character in the series. His sudden death last chapter does not do his character justice.
If kakashi was one of the most powerful characters in the series then Kishi would have not handle him like he did, and kishi sudden a$$ kicking he wrote for kakashi did do him justice, for the simple fact that Kishi didn't pull any punches for kakashi, and he still managed to bring down a Pain. How The fight turned out was legitimate to the story and to kakashi and his power, and for Pain. Was it ever confirmed that kakashi died?
To draw a paralell, the situation is similar to as if Eiichiro Oda decided to kill off Zoro during the After Battle on Thriller Bark. Kuma was out of his league entirely and defeated Zoro. had Zoro truly died from Kuma's Fatigue Sphere then that would be a poorly handled death.
Eiichiro Oda don't kill, but if he did, Zoro is someone who is well an equal to Luffy and his damage soak is godly him not dying is legit. but if you hand that situation to someone other then Zoro who has shown no damage soak feats, and they survive it would be bad writing.
Putting up a good fight doesn't mean that some one is equal, it just means that person is rsiliant enough to hang on to life so as to not get bitched out by their opponent. Enter Kuwabara. Kuwabara during the demon tournament got his ass kick on a regular basis, but it wasn't an outstanding underwhelming loss, such as Kakashi's recent one. All Kishimoto had to do was have Kakashi hold his own for a little bit longer and to damage Pain a bit. I also believe that you're hyping Pain up too much.
and thats how Kishimoto would contradict his story.
You must not know who Pain is to understand that there was nothing Kakashi could do that he hasn't done to put up a decent fight against Pain.
For one Kakashi is a guy who wouldn't dare fight Oro, that is the same weight class the J-man and Tsunade is in, Hanzou the former leader of the Rain is in a league above them 3 (Oro, J-man & Tsundae), Pain killed Hanzou and soloed the rain village all by himself, and he is now wrecking Konoha one of the most powerful villages in the Naruto world, and we have yet to touch the surface on how powerful Pain is. Now your telling me this guy who was scared to fight, no let me make this clear, sh8ting his draws to even make a move against Oro would be able to hold his own against a man in another world of power well beyond Oro, J-man and Tsunade?
Not to mention Kakashi was able to help take down a Pain.
Unf**kwittable!
I was actually waiting for me to ask for these series so I could slam them in his face but if all he's going to do is selectively quote me without actually looking at my points of discussion I might as well comply.
You and your cheerleader have yet to answer any of my questions nor debunk my points.
OK, off the top of my head, Yu Yu Hakusho (Genkai vs Toguro), Air Gear (Spitfire+Aen clock? vs Nike + Sora), Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (just got into this but there's already Zeppelli the 1st's death). I've never read HunterxHunter (mostly due to I'm afraid of getting into it just to suffer one of Togashi's infamous hiatuses) but from what I've heard about constant character deaths about guys you'd never have imagined would die and how hopeless situations really are hopeless, I'm sure there's a couple;). These are off the top of my head but if these aren't enough, I could trawl through onemanga to refresh my memories of other series where this occured.
Don't read air gear/HunterXHuter or Jojo so your going to have to explain those, and Mind bring up, a battle that is comparable to Kaksahi vs Pain situation? Coz you still have yet to explain how Kshi would be able to give you what you ask for with out contradict himself, about what his character can do and can not do. The only battle I'm familiar with that you have named is Genkai vs Toguro and its been a while since I see it, and if IIRC that is not comparable to Kaksahi vs Pain situation.
Kakashi's death at this point did show off some cool moves form Kakashi, and by sacrificing his life to save Chouji did prove his integrity. What we're lacking is the impact of his death. When Asuma died, we saw shots of everyone in his life–his team and Kurenai. When Jiraya died, though he was alone he reflected on the people he knew in his life, plus we more recently got to see Naruto's reaction. The problem I have with this "death" of Kakashi is that no one important to him knows about it--his body is just alone in a field of debris somewhere. Because of this, in addition to the fact I can't see a fatal wound on him, I'm hoping he' just unconscious.
Then maybe you should wait and see how his situations plays out, Before jumping to conclusions.
See, now Jinbei has lost. You have effectively won the argument.
Then maybe you should wait and see how his situations plays out, Before jumping to conclusions.
So, whats wrong with using a forum for what its for?