@Cyan-D-Funk said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
How the fuck are people still in the tank for Hancock, it's been 12 goddamn years.
For some reason, people mistook Yamato noy joining as clearing the last 12 years of speculation and putting their favs back in the game again.
It's time to unban AGOG.
@last-exit-to-laughtale said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@theackwardstation Yeah, and that frame is an extreme wide establishing shot where none of the characters are actually visible. The actual panel where Yamato actually says "I want to be a crewmate" none of Luffy's enthusiasm is on screen.
Again, compared to Jinbe, the response to Yamato staying behind is rather tepid.
Luffy's enthusiasm is not onscreen because he's pissed off. It would be out of place to see Luffy giggling while he's basically told that his "new crewmate" is actually not going with him. Btw, the same thing happened with Jimbe too in chapter 649 when we first saw Jimbe's denial to Luffy's invitation.
Anyway, the overall beats of the joining narrative for Yamato and Jimbe are obviously different from beginning to end, so there's only so much we can compare both of them. What matters to me is that my impression is that Yamato will join the crew eventually, which makes his situation just like Jimbe's. The comparison ends here.
@Kaiolino said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@Cyan-D-Funk said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
How the fuck are people still in the tank for Hancock, it's been 12 goddamn years.
For some reason, people mistook Yamato noy joining as clearing the last 12 years of speculation and putting their favs back in the game again.
It's time to unban AGOG.
No, Deicide has been pushing the Hancock agenda EVERYDAY for the last 12 years.
@Kaiolino said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@Cyan-D-Funk said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
How the fuck are people still in the tank for Hancock, it's been 12 goddamn years.
For some reason, people mistook Yamato noy joining as clearing the last 12 years of speculation and putting their favs back in the game again.
It's time to unban AGOG.
I mean to be fair it kinda did. Bad writing can literally be the support for any argument at this point. Can't be refuted either cause it could be Oda is just gonna surprise us.
I'm not even joking when I say that carrot could legit just stowaway just cause. That's the state of One Piece at this point.
And yes unban anyone arguing for their favorite pick. Principles like build up or things having to connect clearly don't hold water to surprising readers.
@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@last-exit-to-laughtale said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@theackwardstation Yeah, and that frame is an extreme wide establishing shot where none of the characters are actually visible. The actual panel where Yamato actually says "I want to be a crewmate" none of Luffy's enthusiasm is on screen.
Again, compared to Jinbe, the response to Yamato staying behind is rather tepid.
Luffy's enthusiasm is not onscreen because he's pissed off. It would be out of place to see Luffy giggling while he's basically told that his "new crewmate" is actually not going with him. Btw, the same thing happened with Jimbe too in chapter 649 when we first saw his denial to Luffy's invitation.
Anyway, the overall beats of the joining narrative for Yamato and Jimbe are obviously different from beginning to end, so there's only so much where we can compare both of them.
What matters to me is that my impression is that Yamato will join eventually, which makes his situation just like Jimbe's. The comparison ends here.
Enthusiasm can be inferred from a character being angry too, not just from happiness. Luffy's response is just "oh, what, you are not coming? :( oh, well, guess it can't be done" which doesn't really feels like he was crazy about having Yamato as much as he was fine with it (which is perfectly understandable since we never got a scene of Luffy claiming he wanted Yamato on the crew, it was always only Yamato's decision).
His response to Jinbe was nothing like that, he was visibly furious and even tried to get physical when Jinbe denied.
@access-timeco I think the upset is all over Luffy's face.
But I agree that Luffy's reaction here is not as strong as with Jimbe, but that's just easy to rationalize away. I don't the difference of portrayal is enough to dispel my impression that this scene reinforces the idea of Yamato joining.
Hancock, unlike Yamato, doesn't want to join Luffy's crew. She wants to marry him! And i maintain the only way that's happening is if she runs into Bonney and she ages her down to Luffy's age. Luffy wouldn't dare refuse her then! This is all just fan service though.
As far as Hancock actually doing something serious in the story, i maintain the only thing for her to do is join the fight again the celestial dragons! So basically, she would join forces with Dragon or something. Just imagine Hancock freeing slaves at some point- Fisher Tiger style! Wouldn't that be great?
@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
Luffy's enthusiasm is not onscreen because he's pissed off.
Yeah, so pissed off he didn't even bother to stand up at first, and maintains relaxed body language when the next frame shows a more closeup version of the scene.
In the scene with Jinbe from the chapter you're referring to, Luffy is literally shaking Jinbe by the lapels and yelling at him to join, and he keeps that energy up for several frames with extra exclamation points and surrounding Luffy with speed lines to emphasize his excitement and determination to see Jinbe join someday. Oda even includes a frame of every Straw Hat reacting to this to show that they too are looking forward to Jinbe joining, something Yamato's scene lacks.
@last-exit-to-laughtale that just means the scene with Jimbe was written better than now, which is also a consequence of how cramped with content these late chapters have been to move the story quickly.
@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
I think Yamato's current situation is like Jimbe's after Fishman Island and we'll see Yamato join in the future before the final arc. It could happen in the next 50 chapters or 100.
As for Carrot, after we got flashbacks of Marco and Yamato in chapter 1059, I expect we'll at least get another flashback for Carrot too in the next few chapters in case she didn't stowaway (which is unlikely). Her situation will get more clear and a little more satisfying one way or another.
Yep, we'll have to see how long it takes before Yamato's decision backfires on her, before others like Marco intervene.
@Zin-Magala said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
This chapter was all I needed to see when it comes to Hancock. She had a very small chance in my eyes, but I was willing to wait and see based on her status. I've settled on Hancock and Vivi not being the 11th.
I guess I'm riding the "nobody is joining" train until something interesting happens.
Nah, I don't think Vivi would be someone to choose desire over duty. ;)
Yeah, never thought Hancock ever had a chance at joining. Nothing has changed. That always seemed to be a solely fan based idea.
LOL @ Carrot being the most realistic possible candidate left to join. I thought the past few chaps wrapped all of that up. Didn't know there were still holdouts angling for another stowaway situation.
Thought we were all just looking forward to the next arc and new characters
Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
@theackwardstation How is a massive difference in body language and dialogue between two scenes in any way the fault of the pacing? You could simply change the tone of the scenes by changing Luffy's body language in one of the establishing panels, and then by reversing the perspective of the panel with Yamato & Luffy to show Luffy's face instead, change his body language to something more energetic, and don't make Luffy's response to Yamato so dodgy.
Bam, completely changes the tone of the scene without needing to even change the panel borders. And Oda evidentially doesn't have this framing problem with Marco only a few panels later.
@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@last-exit-to-laughtale in this chapter Luffy is TOTALLY onboard with Yamato joining the crew. He literally says "you're not going with us? Let's be pirates together!!". Luffy was even upset with Yamato's reasoning, but had to roll with it.
It's interesting, because the fact that Luffy offers the kind gesture of offering his protection even after Yamato said she'd help protect Momo and the others could possibly be a sign that Luffy is concerned about Yamato taking things on alone as well. Even now, I wonder if he's still concerned about it despite what Yamato said.
@electricmastro Please...Watch Crocodile's punk ass come for Pluton. Yamato will smash him!
@danie said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@electricmastro Please...Watch Crocodile's punk ass come for Pluton. Yamato will smash him!
Heh, who said it was only Crocodile Yamato had to watch out for
@Zik said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
Yeah, never thought Hancock ever had a chance at joining. Nothing has changed. That always seemed to be a solely fan based idea.
LOL @ Carrot being the most realistic possible candidate left to join. I thought the past few chaps wrapped all of that up. Didn't know there were still holdouts angling for another stowaway situation.
Thought we were all just looking forward to the next arc and new characters
Pretty sure the hardcore "Carrot for nakama" people are moving past the stowaway idea and will now push for Carrot joining down the line after she gets a flashback saying goodbye with some of the crew or something.
@electricmastro So you think Marco will come and stop him? The guy Blackbeard already beat? Most likely no one will stop Blackbeard if Oda decides he should have it.
@last-exit-to-laughtale expecting the same body language and for things to play out exactly the same here and there is a bit silly, in my opinion, including the fact that Jimbe's relationship with Luffy was much deeper than Luffy's with Yamato. And since one of your points was the consistency of the portrayal of Luffy's disappointment throughout many pages in chapter 649 after Jimbe's denial, then pacing is absolutely relevant to explain why soon after Yamato's notice Oda already had a scene of Luffy happy because of Marco's words to him.
@danie said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@electricmastro So you think Marco will come and stop him? The guy Blackbeard already beat? Most likely no one will stop Blackbeard if Oda decides he should have it.
That's the thing, I don't think it will just be Marco, but Marco, Vista, and all the other Whitebeard Pirates, coming to not only help Yamato, but also help Luffy in the form of giving him back-up protection for Wano. I've no reason to doubt they also love Wano, and might even regret not helping out Oden back then, so maybe after Marco and the others realize Luffy would need more back-up for Wano after all after Blackbeard attacks, they'd take it upon themselves to offer them to help out Luffy since he could always use more back-up seeing how it's not as reliable just to wait for him to sail back to an island that's in trouble.
Them supporting Luffy that way would probably fit in line with what Whitebeard said too.
@theackwardstation It actually wasn't "many pages," it was the same number of pages as Yamato's scene: 2.
And my point isn't that Jinbe's and Yamato's scenes must be identical, it's that comics are a visual medium and what Oda chooses to focus on is meant to convey readers what he considers important. With Jinbe, Oda signals to readers that Jinbe is important, and that his return is to be anticipated through Luffy's reactions, by focusing on his reactions and making them the center focus through close-ups, dynamic posing, and by having him use definitive statements. The scene with Yamato does nearly the opposite of all that, and as a result it has the opposite effect, and therefore carries opposite connotations to Jinbe's.
After all, if Luffy doesn't care either way, why should we?
@electricmastro Yeah, but they already lost to the Blackbeard Pirates. Why have them lose again? Like I said, if Oda decides Blackbeard should have Pluton, he will get it. No one will stop him. Why? Because he is final villain material, and Luffy already has Shirahoshi on his side. I guess Imu will have Uranus.
@Zik said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
LOL @ Carrot being the most realistic possible candidate left to join. I thought the past few chaps wrapped all of that up.
Carrot having this duke role randomly foisted upon her with the other minks dangling her dead mentor over her head, the scene ending with a worried expression on her face as she says "Pedro..." instead of a yes/no answer, and her not even getting a goodbye scene with the people she adventured with for an entire arc is literally the opposite of wrapped up.
I have no special fondness for Carrot but even I am expecting a sudden band-aid flashback with her after Oda gave one to Marco+Yamato. And I understand why the Carrot for Nakama gang feels some newfound hope because her """"""conclusion"""""" in 1057 was very weird otherwise.
Not even Naruto resorted to time travel
@danie said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@electricmastro Yeah, but they already lost to the Blackbeard Pirates. Why have them lose again? Like I said, if Oda decides Blackbeard should have Pluton, he will get it. No one will stop him. Why? Because he is final villain material, and Luffy already has Shirahoshi on his side. I guess Imu will have Uranus.
They didn't have Luffy's support back then. Their manpower could be enough to at least hold someone Blackbeard back enough in time for Luffy to theoretically get back to Wano and confront Blackbeard without Wano getting too much destruction.
@last-exit-to-laughtale Yamato's scene was one page, not two.
Anyway, I understand your argument and that visual depiction is meaningful, but you're overplaying subjective details of intensity in a scene as if it's a math formula with precise outcomes. You're putting too much stock in "hey, Luffy didn't react as strongly as it happened with Jimbe, therefore...", but I don't think it's that simple.
@electricmastro If that's the scenario you have in mind then Yamato, Momo, and the Scabbards should be enough to hold back the Blackbeard Pirates until the Strawhat Crew arrives.
@danie said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@Zik said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
Yeah, never thought Hancock ever had a chance at joining. Nothing has changed. That always seemed to be a solely fan based idea.
LOL @ Carrot being the most realistic possible candidate left to join. I thought the past few chaps wrapped all of that up. Didn't know there were still holdouts angling for another stowaway situation.
Thought we were all just looking forward to the next arc and new characters
Pretty sure the hardcore "Carrot for nakama" people are moving past the stowaway idea and will now push for Carrot joining down the line after she gets a flashback saying goodbye with some of the crew or something.
You know, I did directly tell you, the last time you said this, exactly when I'd let it go:
@Shift said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@danie said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
You'll aren't giving up until we see her with the other minks huh.
Although once that happens, I guess you'll just say she'll join down the line like Tama supposedly will, right?My wager with @FolhaS extends just until the crew reaches the island after Wano. If they get there and Carrot still hasn't appeared, I'll accept that she's done. Until then, I'll keep my faith in her and Pedro's will.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
@theackwardstation If you're including the establishing scene that happens on the previous page, then it is spread out over 2 pages. Jinbe has a similar establishing scene start at the end of one page and then the rest is given one page to play out in the same way.
And don't think it's unreasonable to think that a milestone as big as a potential 11th Straw Hat, most likely The Final Straw Hat, after 10 years of no new members after Jinbe's big dramatic entrance in Wano, would be treated with a modicum of gravitas. A mild "I guess" from the main character in response to Yamato just doesn't cut it for me.
@danie said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@electricmastro If that's the scenario you have in mind then Yamato, Momo, and the Scabbards should be enough to hold back the Blackbeard Pirates.
Well Marco has had experience confronting multiple admirals and All-Stars, as well as Vista knocking Aokiji to the ground bleeding and Vista keeping up with Mihawk, so I wouldn't doubt they'd make for a reliable line of inner defense, enough to satisfy Yamato and the Scabbards, especially in the event of Yamato gaining greater purpose to sail out beyond being free at sea.
@Shift Oh, okay. Your post did sort of give me the impression that you changed your mind about that. I guess I read it wrong.
I don't have a problem with anyone who believes any character, whether it's Yamato, Hancock, or even Carrot, has an endlessly open window for joining. This is the thread for that. And if I was going to really push it, I'd say anytime during the next island's adventure Carrot could make a big surprise entrance.
However, I've spent a long time on the subject, both with Jinbe for over 10 years and Carrot for 5. I made my peace with the fact I may be wrong, and just like I did when it seemed Yamato was all but assured, I will boldly admit it at that time. So please accept that I'm arguing in good faith here. I really believe Carrot has something left up her sleeve, and that it will be made clear very soon.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@Kaiolino said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@Cyan-D-Funk said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
How the fuck are people still in the tank for Hancock, it's been 12 goddamn years.
For some reason, people mistook Yamato noy joining as clearing the last 12 years of speculation and putting their favs back in the game again.
It's time to unban AGOG.
No, Deicide has been pushing the Hancock agenda EVERYDAY for the last 12 years.
Man, gotta to hand it to him....that is some true dedication right there. And I'm not saying this to mock him or anything.
All that for a fictional story which people should not be thinking too deeply about, haha.
@last-exit-to-laughtale you're putting too much weight in this scene to conclude that Yamato wouldn't have enough gravitas as the 10th crewmate, but what matters a lot more is the power of the scene of joining and all the other juicy stuff. Like, I was not putting my faith in Jimbe joining the crew based on the depiction of chapter 649 either, lol, it was not a particularly memorable scene full of gravitas.
Besides, there's this constant attempt to predict things based on what someone thinks is "good writing" or "bad writing" (like, "I don't think Yamato has enough gravitas, therefore he won't join"), which I think is a mistake.
I'm in "either crew's full or Vivi rejoin" camp
@Kfunk I think Oda may have gave it away for the YouTube header a while back.
It's going to be really funny in hindsight if true.
@theackwardstation said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
@last-exit-to-laughtale you're putting too much weight in this scene to conclude that Yamato wouldn't have enough gravitas as the 10th crewmate, but what matters a lot more is the power of the scene of joining and all the other juicy stuff. Like, I was not putting my faith in Jimbe joining the crew based on the depiction of chapter 649 either, lol, it was not a particularly memorable scene full of gravitas.
Besides, there's this constant attempt to predict things based on what someone thinks is "good writing" or "bad writing" (like, "I don't think Yamato has enough gravitas, therefore he won't join"), which I think is a mistake.
I think it all depends on how much greater purpose Yamato has to justify leaving Wano. She didn't talk about giving up opening Wano's borders, or even talk about what to do with Pluton either, so maybe it's left upon for her to sail out for when she's encouraged enough to find the answer to all this.
Hey, be fair, I didn't came here to talk about Hancock for every day for 12 years.
I mostly talked about it when provoked, from time to time.
I always expected she would be returning to the story eventually in a big way. Unlike most other candidates, her role wasn't exhausted back in Amazon Lily/Impel Down/Marineford. Amazon Lily felt like a prelude to her character arc, and it seems that arc is just beginning now. I also always said that losing the Warlord title would be the catalyst for that arc, and it feels pretty much on point right now.
Now, I need to see where the story goes, but this was a nice start.
i'm in the "both carrot and hancock are the most boringest bores ever please no more" camp.
since this is simply a very strong cold fact and not in any way based on a feeling or opinion or something please don't argue with me against this point.
edit: a very good point if i may add, i have tons of data to back me up, like... so many pages and panels.
@theackwardstation I personally didn't think there was any doubt laden in Jinbe's joining. There was a ton of buildup to his introduction alone, Luffy's the one to ask him to join, chapter 649 makes it clear Luffy absolutely won't take no for an answer, and quite a few scenes are dedicated to setting Jinbe up to be a pivotal figure in future arcs. Him & FMI having major ties to Big Mom was a pretty big flag that he would be relevant once she came into the picture.
It's not just that scene, Yamato just... doesn't have any scenes like that after 70+ chapters. Even the scenes where Yamato and Luffy interact directly is barely 10 chapters last time I counted. It creates this huge logistic problem where trying to re-work her in at this point means Oda would have to either decide that Yamato getting make-up bonding time with the 9-10 other characters isn't actually that important, or awkwardly re-insert Yamato into the story by making her central an arc she'd otherwise have no business being a part of, and imo no such arc has been set up for her, when the most emotionally cathartic conflict she had - her father being Kaido - is already over.
@last-exit-to-laughtale I think what I said was confusing, so let me explain better. The fact that Jimbe would join after FI was obvious to me, but due to the narrative as a whole and what I thought made the most sense. I just meant that it was not the "gravitas" of chapter 649 that made it for me.
The fact remains, Carrot didn't receive closure at the end of Wano. Many were up in arms about the way Oda seemed to leave things with Yamato in 1057. While I didn't think Yamato was leaving with the crew, I did correctly point out in the discussion immediately following that chapter that Yamato was lying to Momo about her reason for staying and that Oda hid the conversation with Luffy for that very reason.
Marco also didn't receive any closure at the end of the arc and as it turns out, we just needed to be a bit patient.
The same would seemingly remain true for Carrot. Being declared queen of Zou was no less abrupt than Yamato's (apparent; I thought it was where things were headed for a long time) sudden heel turn decision to remain on Wano.
Whether some in this thread want to acknowledge it or not, it remains true that Carrot was an important ally and friend to the Straw Hats. Oda flashed back to a farewell to Marco and Yamato, characters who spent substantially less panel time with the crew. Marco had never directly spoken to Luffy before that moment if memory serves. A lack of farewell or any kind ofo parting words to Carrot is very conspicuous.
Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker
"ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate
@theackwardstation Ah, I see. My bad. When I said "gravitas" I didn't mean to imply that scene exclusively. Jinbe's arc is framed with far more graviats overall that Yamato doesn't get in relation to the Straw Hats specifically. The difference in levels of passion in response to Jinbe and Yamato saying they intend to stay is just one example of many as to why I don't find comparisons between the two to be a compelling argument in Yamato's favor.
@last-exit-to-laughtale My certainty that Jimbe would join was surely much bigger than my present feeling that Yamato will join too... but I don't think the build up for Yamato is so uneventful either. Oda dedicated a lot of screentime and effort to Yamato (even if I may personally find some of it lackluster for my own tastes and idealism). And in chapter 1059 there's another repetition of Yamato's desire to join the crew, which was not necessary at all. Oda wants us to have this in mind, and to keep guessing, and to be prepared.
Btw, on a side note, I'm not stuck in the concept that there's necessarily only one more crewmate. I actually think it's very possible that Jimbe was the final member, and I also think it's possible that we can have Yamato, Carrot and somebody else join.
Right now I don't have a lot of confidence that Carrot stowed away (I think it's unlikely), but I surely hope so. And if Carrot joined next chapter, that wouldn't dispel my belief that Yamato will also join later.
@theackwardstation Yamato did get screen time, but my point was that in the time she was on screen wasn't used to actually establish an emotional connection with the main cast, and in some cases actively downplays any serious connection they could have - which is such a huge breakaway from how he handles the introduction of crew members that I don't think can be ignored. Yamato's expressed desire to join the crew feels dampened when directly juxtaposed with Luffy's distinct non-reaction, and given that this is supposed to take place before Luffy gives Momo his flag and calls Momo part of his crew, I don't think this scene overwrites how that goodbye scene ultimately frames Momo, Kin'emon and Yamato as a matched set. If anything the way the conversation circles back to Momo arguably further emphasizes him as the central figure of Wano.
This chapter makes yamato staying somewhat better because unlike the previous motive, it has some set up/foreshadowing (Aramaki invading the island, Yamato's DF being the guardian deity, etc). The previous one was "I can't believe Oda wrote this", while now it's "ok it makes sense he wrote this but it's far from his best material".
The thing is Yamato did not get enough character development in Wano. So him joining vs not joining was just a trade-off between pay-off that wasn't earned vs a waste of time. And we got the later in the end. Feels like Rebecca all over again.
(Now to be fair, rereading Dressrosa made me like Rebecca's role in the story a little better, because it turns out it was all about Kyros, not Rebecca, and his arc is pretty damn good. it makes sense Rebecca never fights, because Kyros' arc is about not letting her inherit his violence, and in the end he achieves that. It's just the execution is a bit sloppy since Oda has to spend 50 chapters giving Rebecca random things to do instead. So I wonder if Wano will be better when I reread it in bulk. We'll see).
@last-exit-to-laughtale I understand all that, and even argued these things before, but I'm not dogmatic about it either.
Re: next crewmate.
It's Vivi or nobody.
@Dragon-D-Luffy said in Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World):
This chapter makes yamato staying somewhat better because unlike the previous motive, it has some set up/foreshadowing (Aramaki invading the island, Yamato's DF being the guardian deity, etc). The previous one was "I can't believe Oda wrote this", while now it's "ok it makes sense he wrote this but it's far from his best material".
The thing is Yamato did not get enough character development in Wano. So him joining vs not joining was just a trade-off between pay-off that wasn't earned vs a waste of time. And we got the later in the end. Feels like Rebecca all over again.
(Now to be fair, rereading Dressrosa made me like Rebecca's role in the story a little better, because it turns out it was all about Kyros, not Rebecca, and his arc is pretty damn good. it makes sense Rebecca never fights, because Kyros' arc is about not letting her inherit his violence, and in the end he achieves that. It's just the execution is a bit sloppy since Oda has to spend 50 chapters giving Rebecca random things to do instead. So I wonder if Wano will be better when I reread it in bulk. We'll see).
Rebecca didn't seem to give the impression she was suppressing any grander dream or her own personal happiness to be with Kyros though, whereas Yamato does seem to be giving that impression. When considering this is a series about chasing after your dreams and for what Yamato went through and is still wanting, then it's a little hard to swallow even when keeping in mind how Momo failed to hold off the Admiral.
@Dragon-D-Luffy Yamato's arc, at least in Wano, was really all about Momo. She may receive more individual development in the future, but even the scenes where she shared deeply personal moments - like meeting Ace - were centered on Momo. That scene in particular was when Yamato passed on Oden's journal to Momo so that he could symbolically take up his father's mantle.
Oda could have used that Ace connection to underscore an emotional moment with Luffy, but instead used that connection to reinforce Yamato's growing attachment to Momo.
As you said, seeing Rebecca's role in the story as secondary to Kyros helps the reading experience with Dressrosa and I think a similar perspective regarding Momo and Yamato also makes sense.
This is something I brought up in discussing chapter 1051 as well - because for me, a big issue with the arc was the way Kaido was defeated. I actually like Gear 5, but the end of the battle itself felt abrupt and anticlimactic.
But Momo's speech at the end really drove home for me that this arc and even more broadly, story saga, has really been centered on Momonosuke. The big triumphant moment wasn't Luffy defeating Kaido, but Momo rising to proclaim himself Wano's new shogun.
Kaido was considered the world's strongest creature, while Momo first entered the story as a helpless eight year old child whose name ironically mans invincible. This was the story of Momo's odyssey through time and across the ocean to recruit allies he could lead into battle against the world's strongest. Luffy, the Minks, Law, Kid, the Akazaya, and Yamato were the soldiers whose loyalty was won over by Momo, who is slowly growing into the great leader he's destined to someday become.
Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker
"ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate
