Both Naruto and Bleach’s wars were massive disappointments, like seriously just horrible
Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !
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As terrible as the Shinobi war was the Marineford war was worse. There I said it and I don't even feel bad about it
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As terrible as the Shinobi war was the Marineford war was worse. There I said it and I don't even feel bad about it
LOL
For real?
What?
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@Zik:
LOL
For real?
What?
Oh I'm dead serious with this. And by that I'm not selling short how terrible the Shinobi war was. It deserves all the crap it gets. But he Marineford war was worse.
It's only been viewed postively here because this is a One Piece forum but hey, just go to a Naruto forum to see what brain gymnastics people have to perform to see any merit in it. It's easy to point fingers and laugh at Narutofans but it's also hipocritical if we think we are better over here.
If you like it than that's honestly fine. To me however it will forever be the worst piece of shit Oda has ever produced seconded only by Fishman Island. And every once in a while I just need to let it out how big my hate for it is.^^'
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It's not a direct comparison because One Piece isn't an anthology, but I appreciate the scale and scope Lucas and Filoni tried to capture with The Clone Wars animated series.
I get the impression, based on the fact Oda is intent on not letting us forget anyone, that nearly every character will in some way be involved in the final war. Just don't expect to see Kuro or Foxy.
But I do hope he can capture the global nature of the war. Marineford was great for a single battle, but the entire world is set to be turned upside down by the discovery of One Piece.
I think it could be interesting if post-Laugh Tale, pre-final battle in Marijoa, the Straw Hats for some reason must go on a 'world tour' of sorts to the East Blue. Like consider it the 'set-up' portion of the war saga / arc. I know this is just my wish. It's not an actual prediction. But I'd love to see places like Brook's home visited during this phase of the story. Or other places we might not otherwise see like Kano, the Land of Ice, etc. I could even seeing it being a slightly longer version of the adventure montages in Oden's flashback. Maybe spending a bit more time in each location, but showing us chapters of this global war so to speak as the Straw Hats and allies make their way across the world until at last building to the final battle in Marijoa against the WG, Elders, Imu, etc. I think it could be an interesting way to both capture the global scope of the war and account for the passage of time. The One Piece world has been waiting for 800 years and for this conflict to be truly as impactful as Whitebeard predicted, I think it needs to dwarf the scale of Marineford in terms of both length and complexity. If it were a simple matter of heading to the Holy Land, beating up the Elders, and Imu, and deposing the Celestial Dragons, even a sickly Roger would have been seemingly up to that task knowing he had Rayleigh, Oden, and the rest of his crew by his side and could surely have called upon Whitebeard for support. He also could have likely relied upon the support of a number of other nations. Roger knew he was too early, but also knew that his successor would need to act upon the information learned on Laugh Tale. So it is pressing and important - the world needs to change. But doing so cannot be a simple matter of the Straw Hats mustering up an army and storming the gates because that's something Roger could have done, even as a dying man.
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The idea that Wano is ending in 20 chapters is hysterical. Doflamingo vs. Luffy was like ten chapters and that was after a flashback, not to mention Scabbard Avenger's list of lingering plot points isn't even complete. I didn't really interact with the online fandom until last year, was it always filled with people arguing for off-screening things/rushing things or did this only happen after Oda's perpetual five year plan started?
I figured the final war was already starting with the Celestial Dragons vs. Revolutionaries and the great cleansing stuff and that finding the One Piece would just kind of be dousing fire on the war and signaling the straw hats entrance into it.
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Overall I liked both wars.
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The problem with the Shinobi War was that it last 1/3rd of the whole series and a lot of the events revolved around characters nobody cared about. You had the Hokage vs. Madara, Sasuke and Itachi vs Kabuto and then the final confrontation of Obito - Madara - Kaguya and that's basically the only parts that mattered. So much time was wasted on nothing.
At least Marineford condensed itself to one arc and knew to only really focus on Luffy for the majority of it.
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@Zik:
You guys should read more manga other than Naruto when you make these comparisons to what you might expect in the story.
What other recent mangas have ended with a world war though ?
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Funny enough i just got to the fourth war on my re-read.
Once i remembered that this is all there is for like 30 volumes my will to read on dropped.
But i'll have to push on ahead and see if i agree with Ivotas opinion
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I'm fine with Marineford. Sure, it has some issues. Like, it's an all-out war between the big names, yet we actually don't really see big names… going all-out. But I understand the narrative reasons, of course.
Besides, same as Water 7/Enies Lobby is one arc, so is Marineford the climax part of the arc which started at Sabaody. For me, it's perfectly fine within the overall narrative context.
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Oh I'm dead serious with this. And by that I'm not selling short how terrible the Shinobi war was. It deserves all the crap it gets. But he Marineford war was worse.
It's only been viewed postively here because this is a One Piece forum but hey, just go to a Naruto forum to see what brain gymnastics people have to perform to see any merit in it. It's easy to point fingers and laugh at Narutofans but it's also hipocritical if we think we are better over here.
If you like it than that's honestly fine. To me however it will forever be the worst piece of shit Oda has ever produced seconded only by Fishman Island. And every once in a while I just need to let it out how big my hate for it is.^^'
Yeah I don't get this take at all.
Especially when ranking all One Piece arcs. I got Marineford ahead of most of the post time skip arcs.
Agree about Fishman island and that's also why I can't see it being compared to Marineford.
I tend to look back and compare Marineford to most fights with a titan in Attack on Titan.
@Nilitch:What other recent mangas have ended with a world war though ?
I wouldn't even contain comparisons to just recent manga.
@ARTEMlS:I'm fine with Marineford. Sure, it has some issues. Like, it's an all-out war between the big names, yet we actually don't really see big names… going all-out. But I understand the narrative reasons, of course.
Was it really an all out war though?
For Whitebeard it was a rescue mission end of story. Before Luffy showed up and changed some things I'm pretty sure his plan was get to Ace, free him, and run.
When Luffy finally frees Ace, WB straight up gives his oast command and tells his crew and allies to leave him behind.
Another reason you weren't going to get multiple ppl going all out other than WB is cuz he wasn't giving anyone time to. I mean sure you can look behind the curtain and say Oda was just giving us short skirmishes of big names doing one attack and switching to another scene of the same thing but in story, it was Whitebeard running through anyone who stood up to him and Luffy barely surviving as he made his way to Ace.
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Seeing how oda love vikings, I really doubt elbaf will be a small arc, with it containing the last poneglyph and all.
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@Zik:
Yeah I don't get this take at all.
Especially when ranking all One Piece arcs. I got Marineford ahead of most of the post time skip arcs.
Agree about Fishman island and that's also why I can't see it being compared to Marineford.
I would be lying if I'd be saying it doesn't have to do with personal opinion but literally everything about it irks me the wrong way. Some of the things in a fundamental conceptual way and many of the "well, that could have been handled better" kind of way. On paper Marineford is amazing and heck, if you check my in the forums back then when the arc started I was totally excited. But that slowly faded away when it started to feel to me that many things were lacking.
I tend to look back and compare Marineford to most fights with a titan in Attack on Titan.
I'm afraid I don't know what that's supposed to mean^^'
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Funny enough i just got to the fourth war on my re-read.
Once i remembered that this is all there is for like 30 volumes my will to read on dropped.
But i'll have to push on ahead and see if i agree with Ivotas opinion
Naruto is much better read if it is read in one go.
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I don't dislike marineford quite to that degree, but since the current forum consensus has apparently slipped toward feeling it is among the best of the best it sure feels nice to hear someone call it shit. Now if someone can only call Ace a whiny poochie i will be fully satiated.
Naruto is much better read if it is read in one go.
It sure was. Even the earlier time skip stuff is passable when you just speed read it, but post-armadillo penis you can feel the already declining quality fall chapter by chapter.
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I would be lying if I'd be saying it doesn't have to do with personal opinion but literally everything about it irks me the wrong way. Some of the things in a fundamental conceptual way and many of the "well, that could have been handled better" kind of way. On paper Marineford is amazing and heck, if you check my in the forums back then when the arc started I was totally excited. But that slowly faded away when it started to feel to me that many things were lacking.
I'm afraid I don't know what that's supposed to mean^^'
I guess it comes down to your expectations and w/e you may compare an arc like Marineford. I just don't see how you could do it with Naruto Shinobi war arc given its length and how bad it continually became from Obito/Tobi to Madera to that alien. The way it overstayed its welcome was just insane but I felt everything after that time skip was terrible. Totally lost its charm and excitement.
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I'm more annoyed by mangakas calling "war" singular big frontal clashes between two opposing forces within a circumscribed field that end the same day they started than anything else.
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The shinobi war would've been interesting if it was done in the style of kingdom
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I'm more annoyed by mangakas calling "war" singular big frontal clashes between two opposing forces within a circumscribed field that end the same day they started than anything else.
I completely agree. Though, there's, well, this…
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The problem with the Shinobi War was that it last 1/3rd of the whole series and a lot of the events revolved around characters nobody cared about. You had the Hokage vs. Madara, Sasuke and Itachi vs Kabuto and then the final confrontation of Obito - Madara - Kaguya and that's basically the only parts that mattered. So much time was wasted on nothing.
At least Marineford condensed itself to one arc and knew to only really focus on Luffy for the majority of it.
More so than the entire war, I think he final battle, which itself lasted about 10 volumes, was used to rush the series to its conclusion. I know that's weird to say about a 73 volume series, but what I mean to say is the antagonist tags out 4 times in the same setting. Tobi / Obito -> Madara -> Kaguya -> Sasuke
Now, swapping Tobi / Obit for Madara made sense. The war was Madara's orchestration. And sure, Kaguya was the one really pulling the strings. But the only battle that worked naturally as a conclusion to the war was Obito / Madara. Tacking on Kaguya required tons of info / lore dumps.
It's important to remember, the fight started with Naruto and Obito butting heads. And then escalated and escalated and escalated. More and more characters kept showing up at this single setting. We had to cutaway to flashbacks or info / lore dumps more than once. Orochimaru was revived from the dead and made his way to the battlefield all while the fight was still happening.
I think the final battle in the ninja war was used to condense three arcs worth of story, lore, and antagonists into one single setting. I can't blame Kishi for being tired after so many years and I generally enjoyed Naruto to the end, despite some of its flaws, but I clearly get the sense Kaguya and Sasuke were meant to be central antagonists of their own distinct story arcs.
I would have liked to see an extended Infinite Tsukiyomi World arc for Kaguya where some of her lore could have been revealed more gradually. But more importantly, Naruto vs. Sasuke was the final battle and I wanted to see that conflict which had been brewing from the start of the series have time to actually be fleshed out and reach a conclusion in which Sasuke's eventual return and restoration would feel more justified and earned.
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Seeing how oda love vikings, I really doubt elbaf will be a small arc, with it containing the last poneglyph and all.
I agree with you regarding Elbaf being a big arc (no pun intended), but I think the last Road Poneglyph is elsewhere. Still, I think Elbaf is going to be another multipl-year story arc. I honestly can't imagine it being otherwise. Zou was short because there was no real conflict to resolve.
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I feel like the final war will involve the WG mobilizing all their forces after the SH, while allies will block the WG's way, so while Luffy and Blackbeard's crews are duking out at Laugh Tale, the world is fighting so allow/not allow interference.
I simply can't see something akin to the Shinobi War where characters discuss strategies and such.
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The shinobi war would've been interesting if it was done in the style of kingdom
Or The Ravages of Time but alas.
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I dropped Naruto about 2 chapters before the Obito reveal and never came back.
The fact the spoilers I heard about the story kept getting progressively dumber (including the aforementioned reveal) didn't help.
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Now if someone can only call Ace a whiny poochie i will be fully satiated.
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@Zik:
I guess it ones down to your expectations and w/e you may compare an arc like Marineford. I just don't see how you could do it with Naruto Shinobi war arc given its length and how bad it continually became from Obito/Tobi to Madera to that alien. The way it overstayed its welcome was just insane but I felt everything after that time skip was terrible. Totally lost its charm and excitement.
Oh, that one at least I can say a few words about, since that's a fair enough viewpoint I haven't really considered. On the Obito/Tobi to Madara to alien bit subject. While that definitely is part of the entire war Saga I consider it to be a specific part of it where it wasn't much about two actual factions fighting in out with troops on the battle field and rather developing into a DBZ-esque "let's defiat the big bad superstrong guy" thing only on a larger scale in terms of actual participants. But you are absolutely right. That's definitely part of the war saga so I should have actually considered it when making my statement. So I'd like to correct my stament if you allow me to do it: The Marineford War is worse than the actual Shinobi war, when there was two armies taking it out on the battle field.
About the lenght thing. Well, that didn't really bother me as much as everyone else because to me Naruto NEVER has been a good series to begin with. It was not a bad series but what people consider to be a good/great beginning I just consider ok-ish. So while for others Naruto covered the full spectrum from going to fantastic to terrible to me it went from mediocre to terrible. So I never felt the "this war is spending too much time straying away from what made the series good". It was never good to me in the first place and I felt no desire to return to what was mediocre. I just wanted to see how it ends.
Thanks Robby. I couldn't find that picture anymore and I felt like I'm leaving woodwolf hanging.:ninja:
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Naruto volume 10 was fantastic. It's the only volume of the series I own.
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I love all of Naruto part 1
Part 2 is where I started to lose interest
Key reasons is they stopped using the support characters and World Building and the main characters became unlikable
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Naruto volume 10 was fantastic. It's the only volume of the series I own.
I love all of Naruto part 1
Part 2 is where I started to lose interest
Key reasons is they stopped using the support characters and World Building and the main characters became unlikable
That's fair enough guys. I was just saying that to me it was never more than mediocre. That's not to say that it didn't have moments that were great but overall I just never found it anything more than mediocre.
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That's fair enough guys. I was just saying that to me it was never more than mediocre. That's not to say that it didn't have moments that were great but overall I just never found it anything more than mediocre.
That's my point. The Rock Lee fight was good.
That's the only volume I own. Nothing else was worth spending 8$ on.
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Some parts of the series pre-time skip were very exciting to read. To me, the main problem was always how unlikable the characters were. Apart from Rock Lee there's no one who isn't at least slightly annoying for one reason or another. The continuously awkward character interaction and the horrible attempts at humour sure didn't help, either.
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Cant believe its been 7 years since Naruto ended….. I'm feeling old.
I appreciate Naruto a lot more now than before, it's rivalry with one piece was fun, and part 1 has become very nostalgic. -
Naruto was toe-to-toe with OP till the Pain arc…..
Then the writing was all PAIN
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I prefer Part I over One Piece, big part is nostalgia but I love the stories and characters so much. Shippuden started out okay but each arc steadily went downhill and the whole thing crashed during the Shinobi War. What frustrates me the most was that I enjoyed most of the side characters and villains throughout the entire thing, it was the main trio that was the problem. The endless "we gotta save Sasuke and let's ignore all criticisms of what that means" drove me insane. One of the better examples was during Hidan and Kakuzu's arc, I thoroughly enjoyed the focus Shikamaru got and seeing him take out Hidan, and I really liked Kakuzu as a villain… only for the excitement to drop to rock bottom the moment Naruto arrived to save the day.
At least it's made me appreciate Luffy for being so likeable for 20 years.
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I thought One Piece surpassed all of Part 1 Naruto around Alabasta and never looked back.
And then at Enies Lobby it surpassed all of humanity's storytelling, but that's another conversation.
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The only thing superior about Naruto was the art in the very beginning. While it always looked charming and full of personality, One Piece' art in the first couple of volumes looked pretty rough and amateurish at times. By the he time the straw hats hit the grandline, Oda had easily surpassed Kishi in that department as well.
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Sending kids into extended battle royales and using them as fodder was pretty rad though.
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Naruto s art at the beggining was way worse than OP.
OP stands out and broke a few molds of what was standard at the time, but the art was the opposite of rough, it was clean and clear.
Naruto s art quality only stabilized on the style we re most familiar with halfway through the chunnin exams and Im being generous. The first volumes of Naruto are the rough ones -
Objectively speaking I'd say One Piece is better than Part I, but when it comes to personal taste I liked better how the characters were handled in Part I. It's hard to explain, but I guess they were more sensitive. One Piece doesn't really do that, it's not at all the style of the series, closest we got was when Usopp left the crew. When One Piece hits hard with moments like Vivi's goodbye or Luffy ringing the bell in Skypiea it feels like something epic, a culmination of a grand adventure I went on with the Strawhats. The harder hitting moments of Naruto however, like the Rock Lee fight or Naruto's talk with Gaara, feel more personal. It's two very different kinds of moments and while I find One Piece's more mind-blowing and grand and big, Naruto's is, well, more personal for me, more internally emotional, smaller without being less powerful.
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Cant believe its been 7 years since Naruto ended….. I'm feeling old.
There is no way that's true.
Where does time keep going!? -
Greg, do you still think that we could get awakened forms for at least King and Queen, I read your conservation back then in twitter with users:
Do you overall think that Oda throw the idea away to show awakened zoans or does he only save it for Kaido(would be pretty sad if at least the Calamity not getting it too)? -
whaat, awakening is just boring in Zoans, King and Queen already have much better and interesting perks about them, with the cybernetics and Lunaria stuff.
Plus, Zoro and Sanji are obliged to win(in credible ways), awakening at this point would just make it look like Luffy's Wings never stood a chance.
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Hope Greg is doing well, been over a month since he tweeted…
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He's fine. I talked with him the other day.
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What do you guys think the last species Big Mom doesn’t have on her Islands is?
Any hints Greg?
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Would she know about sky people? She knows about Lunarians somehow, but not really sure how known Skypiea's existence is. That's just assuming lunarians aren't some special 4th tribe of sky people.
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Skypeians, Shandians, and Birkans are all known.
No way only Shanks, Kaido, and Roger are aware of them.
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Well obvs it's more than them, there's Bellamy, Cricket, etc. who either went there or got confirmation, and blue sea tourists apparently aren't that rare up there. But it's kind of vague as to how known it really is, as grand liners thought it was a joke back at Jaya. Do marines know it's real? WG workers? Maybe just higher-ups? Did Big Mom see Urouge and wonder dafuq dat? There's a can of worms to be opened here, anyone in the WG who knows of it must be hoping it never gets brought up.
iunno it's one of those things I've always wondered about, but there's not really any clear status for it, just assumptions. Either way we didn't see any sky race people at Tottoland, and it seems like a race she could nab if she was aware of them. Assuming they weren't just off-panel the whole time.
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Greg-san can you force Oda to explain the Germa powers stuff. For example in a SBS? It became even more confusing now
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Well obvs it's more than them, there's Bellamy, Cricket, etc. who either went there or got confirmation, and blue sea tourists apparently aren't that rare up there. But it's kind of vague as to how known it really is, as grand liners thought it was a joke back at Jaya. Do marines know it's real? WG workers? Maybe just higher-ups? Did Big Mom see Urouge and wonder dafuq dat? There's a can of worms to be opened here, anyone in the WG who knows of it must be hoping it never gets brought up.
iunno it's one of those things I've always wondered about, but there's not really any clear status for it, just assumptions. Either way we didn't see any sky race people at Tottoland, and it seems like a race she could nab if she was aware of them. Assuming they weren't just off-panel the whole time.
I think they might not be a race, but rather a tribe of "special" humans (like the Kuja). I think it was discussed before that the wings are decorations or removable, especially when certain people like Enel and Ganfall lack them entirely.