@Robby said in Hiatus x Hiatus III: Goodnight, Sweet Princes:
@zeltrax225 said in Hiatus x Hiatus III: Goodnight, Sweet Princes:
You mean the exact thing Miyazaki has done multiple times?
I meant his deliberation over every single frame and him being increasingly annoyed by his staff when they failed to depict his vision. This didn't come out of my ass and was captured on film. His high standards have exasperated people around him and even his own son was weary of it.
Whisper of the Heart, Arriety, and Poppy Hill are all films he just did writing and boarding on, and left the bulk of the actual work and directing to other people and they came out great. Whisper of the Heart is my second favorite Ghibli film.
Didn't he make a snark comment towards the director during the press conference of Whisper of the Heart? I need to dig out the source but don't get me wrong, I'm sure Miyazaki has a lot of affection and love for him. You can refer to this interview or the eulogy to get where I'm coming from but my point is that he still had to push himself and adhere to Miyazaki's standards. He probably fought tooth and nail for it(I don't know) but the information we get depicts Miyazaki still being in control.
Nadia Secret of Blue Water was taken from notes and concepts he did that eventually tuned in Laputa, but taken in a whole different direction and it's one of my favorite animes. It doesn't feel like a Miyazaki movie, but you can still see some of him in it even without knowing his involvement, I knew it felt like one of his years before I knew about his involvement.
I really hate to be writing this because for everyone else it doesn't matter and I'm self-aware enough to know that this can sound pretentious. But traces of Miyazaki vs Miyazaki all over are two really different cases. I'm not arguing about whether Blue Water is better or that it has to be Miyazaki to be good, that's not my point. Generally no one is going to be THAT elitist and go hurr durr thats not Miyazaki enough you normies but there are going to be people who have seen enough and know film/animation by the book to catch that and not like/like it but one thing you can be sure of is there will be a distinction.
but if someone else wanted to take the manga as storyboards and adapted it for an 8 hour epic someday? Using the same artists and musicians and co-workers that have been at ghibli for decades? I'd been all in on that.
Sure, I will too. I generally don't care that much to the extend that I place people on pedestals despite everyone below them working their ass off. But there will be a distinction/difference because of the kind of person (influence,creative) that Miyazaki is. And because you and I might not be able to feel it doesn't change that fact.
I loved Nino-Kuni, and that's just Ghibli working with a game developer, not even any involvement from Miyazaki, but alot of those loving touches were all over it.
Ni No Kuni was great but it's also not Miyazaki. I'm reiterating what you've said but I think your point is as long as it captures the feeling of Ghibli and delivers what is satisfactory to the audience, it is still a great work regardless of the involvement of Miyazaki. I agree. It's a commercial success, it's a creative success, it's a gameplay success. It hits all the bars and standards for being excellent. But that's not what I'm talking about here. Even if a scenario where Miyazaki collaborates with a developer and they publish a game happens, there is no certainty that it will fare better than Ni No Kuni. But there will still be a difference. "But that's common sense, of course if two person were to be creative, they'll be different" and I agree but, putting aside that we are all less special than we think, Miyazaki and Togashi are juggernauts and standouts that the difference actually does matter and are individuals so unique enough that they are able to terraform an entire genre.
Or, to use a creator that actually died, Robert Jordan wrote 12 volumes of Wheel of Time and died before finishing. Brandon Sanderson wrote the last 3 and did a fantastic job. It's not the story Jordan would have given us.
That's my point. It's not the work he would have given his audience. Your position is fair because even if Togashi were not to be the one who wrote the series to the end, the consumer/readers and society as a whole would still view HxH as a success upon its conclusion. It's a desirable scenario for everyone except for the author/writer who prioritizes his work to be one that only he can tell and that no one else should divert(be it minute details or not) for him.
There's also the fact that Togashi is Togashi and no one else is Togashi. You'll understand that the very minute someone tries to adapt his style. Unlike Berserk where Miura likely had a completed story arc for the trio, Togashi does shit like the princes, nen, and giving minor/side characters 10 pages. This is the part where you'll say well maybe don't and concentrate on writing the conclusion for Kurapika(and 10 other loose ends).
My reply to that is that's asking him to do something that he doesn't want to just do and out of his usual method of writing. No other authors go on such Togashiesque deviations/tangents as Togashi does and whether you like it or not, it's what he does. Am I saying that he doesn't plan things out to the detail that other writers does and do write what is interesting on the fly? Probably. Is that what he does that is special to him. Absolutely.
I have to constantly emphasis that I don't see anything wrong from where you are coming from in terms of a content/commercial standpoint and that every story deserves a resolution. But I like you to think of it as going to a restaurant run by someone who has been cooking, I don't know, your favourite bowl of noodles or your slice of pizza. You've been going there for years and you and the chef both understand why it is different from the rest. Now the chef passes and some franchise comes in and tries to replicate that recipe but because of the craft and the individuality of the chef that they'll never be able to replicate, you'll be able to taste the difference.
You might or might not still like it, the world will love it, but you can't say for sure that the chef will like that. There's a lot of reason why he doesn't like what is done to his dish but none of the consumers will even get an inkling/grasp of what he is feeling. This is especially so when money/fame is no longer a concern.
Berserk is ongoing now after the authors death. We'll always know its not exactly what Muira would have done. The art isn't the same, the character stuff won't be as good, and its probably going to be a bit more rushed. But it IS the story he spent his life trying to tell, as best as his friend and personally trained studio can recall it. It's an imperfect resolution but it will at least be resolution as close to his desire as possible.
What is best for him AND the audience? To get help and tell it while he can, or to never tell it at all?
Yes, it won't be as good and it won't be as Togashi but yes it will deliver an outcome for everyone else. Everything you stated is better for the audience than it is best for him. And even "best for the audience" is debatable because fans would realise that no matter how Togashiesque someone else adapt the writing, it's not from him. Pariston brought it up earlier regarding the process and the experience you get just from experiencing the writing/art from an artist that can be vastly different from just wanting a conclusion/the seeking of knowledge.
Anyway, from his perspective, it might not matter as much. He might prefer having no resolution than having one that is half-assed or done by someone else or doesn't include his 10 tangents/side characters (that even if you find it a flaw, the guy loves it and see it as his masterstrokes) or whatever reasons there may be. He doesn't need the money, he doesn't need the fame, he does feel bad for his audience and his inability for a resolution which is why he felt obligated/decided to release the interview and that statement/chapter of the World Tree
He's already stated that if he dies he wants his wife to finish it... and that actually seems like the worst possible outcome, Naoko Takeuchi's art and storytelling are so drastically different and their strengths in such different places it seems like a terrible match and that it would just be a very rushed obligation, rather than anything guided through a team while he's still alive.
I want to bring up the consideration that having his wife finish it is a bad option from a rational point of view. But you have to remember that he probably spoke to her a lot about the story and where it goes so in his eyes there's no one other person who understands it more than him. There's at least that to think about because you're thinking of someone who can elevate his art or follow it like a subordinate would but he is thinking of someone who can be loyal to his vision.
If going from story point A to D is all that matters then just get anyone else to write it. If King, Martin, Sanderson, Rowling, Oda or Inoue Takehiko were to be given an outline of Chimera ant and asked to stick closely to it, you'll still be guaranteed a different experience. If Murata, Oda, Araki were to draw it and stick to Togashi style, you'd also get a different experience. Alternatively, if someone can emulate his artstyle and writing pretty closely, you'll get something like Boruto where the soullessness of it all just screams at you. It might be better, it might not be but it sure won't be the same. When the satisfaction of reaching point D matters more to the readers than the execution of it (which can only be done by a certain person), you'll get a different experience(and depending on how the dominoes fall, might as well be another series). Once again, I'm not arguing whether that's a good/bad/right/wrong/successful way to go about it, I'm saying that disregards the work that is put into the process of going from A to D which can only be attributed to the individual creator.
This was a long post and I'm pretty much broken down by all the replies I have to do which I don't even know why I'm doing but that's really all I have to say (which was a lot). I get the opinion from the other side and I'm simply defending the opinion of uh, the other other side. It's all words, we'll never know how he truly feels but I did enjoyed the discussion we've had.