@ea77:

Did you see why I said the drinking could be necessary. If we assume that Devil Fruits can "go on a rampage", as we know from chopper, and that Zoans "have a spirit", the key to Zoan awakening, unlike Paramecia awakening, is "emptying the vessel", so to speak. Hence Luffy awakens at near death when his "voice" dies out, and Kaido gets wasted. It's not a "Ohh he's drunk, therefore awakeneing", it's "what does being drunk" and "what does being hit in the head really hard" and "being asleep" have in common?

So Luffy need be almost in near death situation to use G5 awakened power? Are you implying that a Yonkou can´t used awakening without being drunk?
Chopper need his rumble balls because he alone is not strong enough, but here we speak about a Yonkou who has so much knowledge about awakening and yet he can´t awake it on his own without being drunk?
Sry but this sound so nonsense, I get what you try to explain and I understand you point, but a Yonkou should be able to awake on his own without needing extra tools.

As example, why BM didn´t used awakening, she isn´t a zoan? Why Oda skip her awakening too? Both Yonkou who ruling the seas over 20years, who have so much experince and knowledge, simple didn´t used their df awakened power. I rather take a non awakening Kaido then to get a excuse to give Kaido a bad awakened power as what you show with the theory…

Let me ask you simple this question, how many awakened user we know so far?
Nine people knows awakening and how we get the info that they are awakened?
Yeah Oda confirmed it with a statement that these people been awakened df users, he did it for Doflamingo,Jailer Beasts,Katakuri,Luffy,Kid and Law.

So why he didn´t confirmed it for one of the most important characters? It is not like Oda was in hurry, for BM as example, she began her fight with Kid in chapter 1013 and she was defeated in chapter 1040 and you wanna tell me that Oda had never a single time to explain us(the readers) that BM was already using her awakened power?
People saying stuff like:"Oda probably forget that BM using awakening,probably for Kaido too", they make it sound like that Oda didn´t had the time and was in hurry so he forget it but that is kinda a false thought.

He has time for Law and Kid to drop the statement of them using awakening(multiple times) but the opponent who also face them, didn´t had any time to get a awakened df statement too?
Same for Kaido, he even fought like 60chapters, let say we forget all the part and count only the Bulky version vs Luffy, who was shown in chapter 1037 and other chapters, Kaido probably got defeated in 1049, Oda didn´t get anytime to drop a line of Kaido saying that he is also using awakening?

Sorry but that sound bullshit, I doubt that Oda forget to mentioned that Kaido and BM been already awakened, it more like they really been not awakened df user.
Or Oda really try to surprise us soon with revealing their true power(awakened df power). But outside of that it doesn´t make sense for Oda to not reveal Kaido using awakening during 1037-1048, hell Oda even had enough time to Kaido to speak about awakened df power and show his knowledge twice!! But he has not time to reveal that the two Yonkous had awakened df power?

Sorry but the theory sound very bad for me.

@ea77:

As for Kaido's awakening, what do you guys think of this? https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/uqxhmn/explaining_the_probably_secret_behind_zoan/

TL:DR, Kaido;s awakening *is his Laughing Drunk/Homicidal Drunk mode

Paramecia awakening - Affect things other than the body.

Zoan awakening – Mind and Body catch up with fruit.

The Sake is required to dull the human mind and let more of the fruit take control. Same with Chopper's Monster point and Luffy being knocked the hell out while fighting for freedom AND the Impel Down guards looking like they are asleep with the nose dripping thing. Awakening a Zoan user requires turning them off and on again, basically, and then managing to keep in that state.

Luffy's Gear Second control lets him control his blood, so he could find the rhythm and effectively reverse engineer awakening.

The theory about the Drunken Kaido hybrid version is a awakened form is nonsense and doesn´t make anysense.
First Oda would clearly state it if it was a awakened df, he legit do it with everyone who showed awakening in the past, why not with Kaido in a raid almost long as DR?
Second he drink and then used the power with meaning it was not just a zoan power skill. Luffy got a entire new form in his unique way, the drunken version just is little bulky and has sharp teeth, it is not even unique.

I think people should stop search for excuses to give Kaido awakening with he doesn´t have or kinda not shown it yet.
I mean Oda has time to explain that Law,Kid and Luffy are awakened but not for Kaido and Big mom? Yeah, nooo…

@andy:

I read greg post , the big difference between me and him ( and part of the fan base )is i still think people are a threat to luffy .
( Kaido was super hard for him even with everything and in the end part of Kaido down fall is his fault)

Pls talk for yourself, I read lot of opinion of different readers who are worried too like Greg and I'm on Reddit,worstgen,twitter,german forum and youtube.
People are not really happy how different the portrayal was between the alliance(protagonist) and the villians(Beast pirates).
Lot of discussion about people not been happy how the Beast pirates got portrayal by Oda this arc.
At top now Luffy defeat Kaido the strongest creature.

Talking about the future of the series we don't have long more before the series end , so in terms of big fights 2 or 3 people the most for luffy .
IMO Oda is a good enough of a writer that he can make the fights that left interesting and have tension etc etc.
You mention Akainu Oda said he has the DF with the strongest attack power so it not hard to see how Oda can make him a match for luffy .
The top tiers are suppose close to each other and if Oda needs luffy to be the super under dog for his fights and story to interesting i think that is bad .

Let me ask this question, had fights like Hody,Ceaser or Foxy any tension for the readers/for you?
I remember people been annoyed by the fight with Ceaser, less tension in PH for any strawhat.
Oda and his stuff do anything to hype Kaido, make him the strongest one, even if we agree that Kaido was nerfed in terms of stamina, Luffy actually beat Kaido+strongest attack, took lot of Kaido attacks, what is posing him a danger in the future, in fact Kaido heat was the hot that it melt a horn who was larger then a mountain in the single moment when it touch it? Implying here to Akainu case, I mean if Akainu pull out his strongest move, how different it going be? I doubt it has any big outcome for Luffy right now.

The only one who I see could match/surpass Kaido, are BB and ofc Imu(who will be the final enemy), but the others will face a Luffy who probably getting even stronger after waking up from his wound after Kaido battle. It will be very hard for Oda to make all logical. Stuff like with Hody,Foxy or Ceaser shouldn´t work anymore, since with future sight Luffy should avoid all these problems, I don´t even count the fact that he has adv CoA, adv CoC(perhaps even get a new powerup like the version who most like Shanks and Roger had) and his mighty awakened power who could toe toe with Kaido and overpowered him, Luffy will master it even more, if this was already enough to beat Kaido(if he is down), who is going to fight Luffy who probably master anything, while the current one was strong enough to beat the strongest character so far?

We could reach situation like we had in late Dragonball z/super, with enemies giving a current Luffy trouble who shouldn´t been a problem in first case.
As I said even if BB is stronger then Kaido, the gap will be very close, Luffy already beat that guy who was called the strongest one.

As I said the possibly fighter who could face Luffy:
Kid,Weevil,Loki,BM(if he plan to bring her back),BB,Akainu and Imu?
I expect at least the half of the cast which I mentioned will actually face Luffy,how these fights going to play out, I don´t know but I hope Oda not mess up with the power structure in OP.

@andy:

Let me ask you a question , luffy beating any Yonko would have put him into top tier no matter what .
So if the yonkos , admirals suppose to be close to each other you would end up with the same problem of luffy is match for anyone .
How can you be near the end of the series and not run into that aspect ?

It is not about Luffy match them, it is right now that Luffy beat that top dog of that group, beat the strongest attack of that guy.
Even if someone follow up be stronger, the gap is minimal, how Luffy will now grow from this one, a stronger Luffy means a larger gap between Kaido and Luffy future opponents.
That is only one aspect, what is about the opponents who are under Kaido, like Weevil,Kid and Akainu? If Luffy is already stronger, how these fights play out when Luffy keep going stronger and growing?
Where is any tension between these fights? Someone mentioned Hody and Foxy, fights who didn´t had any tension or growing for Luffy in power.

People not get what we are going with the current route, BB giving later a stronger Luffy(most like with a another powerup in terms of adv CoC) a extrem beat down and hard struggle, what does this mean about Kaido and the power structure of OP? I'm not saying Luffy winning over Kaido is wrong, I'm curious more where this going on from now.
And how Oda is manage to make a proper story, im sure you read Greg post, you should also understand what this mean for the future story.

@Joy:

Can you quote Greg’s post in this thread since I’m banned from the spoiler section ? Would appreciate it

Sorry don´t doing it without Greg permission.

@Shiebs:

I wonder how Oda will make Black Beard, Loki and the SSG feel like bigger threats than Kaido

And other opponents as Kid,Weevil and ofc Akainu are up to the air too…

What @Greg wrote, I totally agree with him.
Kaido is and was the strongest one, like legit Oda and his stuff hyped this guy everytime when they had the chance to do it.
Kaido was portrayal as the strongest, Luffy actually beat that threat, he took that position via beating his strongest move(if Kaido is really down)!!
And that makes it what Greg wrote, Luffy is the strongest being in the world right now. And even if argue that he only beat Kaido because of Kaido facing so many opponents, in the end we all can agree that Luffy is close to close to Kaido, beat Kaido strongest move.

And that makes Luffy currently the strongest one next to Kaido and here start the problem, when we ever had something like this in OP? The strawhats already made a Yonkou crew this arc, looking like the underdog, how it keep going? How matches like Kid vs Luffy,Weevil encounter and other fights even happen at this point if Luffy stand as the number one at the top?
And even if we say BB and Shanks been stronger, do you think the gap between them and Kaido are huge?
It will be like Kaido(100), Shanks and BB at best 1-2points above 100, otherwise and here Greg point start, the gap between Kaido and Luffy upcoming opponents became ridiculous.

And there the unrealistic events start and kinda open up the question, how big will be Luffy grow at that point?
"There's no threat. No danger. No latitude. No need to grow. No need to explore. No need to struggle."
This kinda desribes the problem who await us in the next arcs, with Luffy the man who beat the strongest creature.
No one in OP world(except Imu probably) going to surpass Kaido far exceed, the other opponents at best surpass that very slighty at best with a small gap.

@Monquito:

Lucci and Jabra have huge expertise on their fruits, arguably much more than any Beast Pirate, with all those resources and wide knowledge from the WG, yet, they havent been able to awaken theirs fruits.

Of course some kiddos like Ulti and PayPay won't have it either.

Agree and as I said it make sense that no one of the flying six could use awakening, as Doffy state it, having a awakened power is rare.
I mean even Who´s Who with 546mio and the age of 38 not having it, isn´t bad either since it would clearly show the gap between the flying six and the calamity(I assumed in the past that the calamity would have awakening for sure).
But three guys with a bounty of 1B+ , two of them are old enough to have a awakened power in compare what we see from Doffy and Katakuri. And I agree with a post here about the Impel down jailers, I assume that they get forced to get the awakened power, but lose their mind and can´t change back to their human forms or Chopper Monsterpoint, I assume these powers are awakened.
Would be kinda sad that no one of Kaido strongest members don´t having a awakened power.

@Monquito:

whaat, awakening is just boring in Zoans, King and Queen already have much better and interesting perks about them, with the cybernetics and Lunaria stuff.

Plus, Zoro and Sanji are obliged to win(in credible ways), awakening at this point would just make it look like Luffy's Wings never stood a chance.

Don´t hating the cybernetics and Lunariia stuff, it really great stuff.
But in the arc full of zoans, a crew named beast pirates, where ancient zoans get hyped, a crew with full zoans/smiles, literally the right arc for Zoans to display their true power, wouldn´t it make more sense to development awakening for zoans after Oda display awakening for paramecia in the previous arcs? I mean I can understand it that no one of the flying six get it since a awakened user is rare, I even understand Jack because of his young age, but King with 47 and Queen with 56 age and bountiies over 1.3B don´t have awakened devilfruit yet? Be honest I would be disappointed if "only" Kaido getting a awakened devilfruit and not his strongest members.

Greg, do you still think that we could get awakened forms for at least King and Queen, I read your conservation back then in twitter with users:

Do you overall think that Oda throw the idea away to show awakened zoans or does he only save it for Kaido(would be pretty sad if at least the Calamity not getting it too)?