It could be here lol.
Let's agree to disagree then. I don't think he will appear in the manga either but I still think he's canon.
It could be here lol.
Let's agree to disagree then. I don't think he will appear in the manga either but I still think he's canon.
I don't think Oda is above using a canon immigrant character. Masked Deuce could appear eventually, but I don't expect more than a background cameo.
I don't think Oda is above using a canon immigrant character. Masked Deuce could appear eventually, but I don't expect more than a background cameo.
There’s an old quote from Oda in the Film Z thread, I think the editors and now probably Oda too, are against using characters introduced in non-canon media to appear in canon
Suzuki: It would be great if at least Z's name will be mentioned in manga some day.
Oda: I'd like to consider it if there's any chance.
Hattori (editor): Well, I'm not sure about it though…
Oda: Are you giving a warning to me? (laugh)
source: Theater Culture Magazine T (2012)
Shiki would be the exception since he was originally supposed to be a manga character. Zephyr and Tesoro are still canon in my head canon though, lol.
In order to stay a bit on-topic, Tama still got the best volume cover treatment!
Oda probably wouldn't do it to keep consistency.
Consistency here meaning "don't want to extend the possibility to melty heart eye beam guy from Law's novel".
All of Luffy's crewmates and fleet members have been on cover stories.
Strawhat's Separation Serial
Solo Journey of Jinbe, Knight of the Sea
The Stories of the Self-Proclaimed Strawhat Grand Fleet
From the Decks of the New World, 500 Million Berry Man; Vol 9: Alabasta Kingdom
The last crewmate and/or more fleet members may have been in a cover story or will be in one in the future.
I like to think non-canon stuff like Zephyr could be waved off as someone like Brook telling Luffy's story, and like how a story grows, it gets embellished here and there.
Z is canon in my heart, where it counts
I assumed Z as a character was canon due to him being included in Oda's notes published in the special volume called "One Piece 1000" (the one published to promote the film) tying him to the main plot. There was a detailed timeline saying he was an Admiral when his family was killed by a pirate, after that he wanted to leave but has been convinced to stay as instructor to many modern big names. It was even stated that the pirate who cut his arm became a shichibukai during the timeskip, and later I supposed it was meant to be Weevil since Z lost his arm 9 years before actual story time and the other two candidates were Law and Buggy, the first being too young and the second being too… Buggy.
Obviously only his past would be canon and coherent with manga's events.
EDIT: searching a bit more it seems Oda was just a supervisor and didn't write Z as a character, I was fooled by my memory, but if someone has more specific infos I'd like to read them (I found it was Osamu Suzuki who wrote the story and characters)
I assumed Z as a character was canon due to him being included in Oda's notes published in the special volume called "One Piece 1000" (the one published to promote the film) tying him to the main plot. There was a detailed timeline saying he was an Admiral when his family was killed by a pirate, after that he wanted to leave but has been convinced to stay as instructor to many modern big names. It was even stated that the pirate who cut his arm became a shichibukai during the timeskip, and later I supposed it was meant to be Weevil since Z lost his arm 9 years before actual story time and the other two candidates were Law and Buggy, the first being too young and the second being too… Buggy.
Obviously only his past would be canon and coherent with manga's events.EDIT: searching a bit more it seems Oda was just a supervisor and didn't write Z as a character, I was fooled by my memory, but if someone has more specific infos I'd like to read them (I found it was Osamu Suzuki who wrote the story and characters)
Except for trivia, references and origins for the strawhats and Tama, this right here in my bread and butter, let me enlighten you with some quotes.
”Q: So that (being involved in the Strong World movie) probably made your already packed workload for the serialization even more difficult right?
A: I thought I was gonna die for sure. Even just dealing with the drafts of the serialization, there are other jobs that come in and the movie filled all of that up to the point where I was just thinking about it day in and day out. It even opened up a few gaps in the serialization and there wasn’t much left of me after the whole thing. That’s why I made a declaration to the movie staff that nothing like this would ever happen again. In exchange for that, I made absolutely sure this film will be a smash. I told them that’s the only thing they can expect me to be responsible for. I can guarantee that it’s a really fun film.”
”- Just as your involvement in "Strong World", the universe in which the film is happening is close enough to the original manga, many people say that it has raised the prestige of the series still a step above.
“- Shueisha allows him to take more breaks these days. Oda wonders if this is because they are worried that ONE PIECE might come to an end due to his health problem. Oda got hospitalized after he works in Film Z. He thought the staffs finally noticed that if he worked too hard he would be down, but after all he got involved in ONE PIECE Film again…”
・Oda corrected the script hundreds of times. ex."Luffy won't say such a thing, Mr.Suzuki (scenario writer)."
It seems like Mr. Oda got too involved in Strong World, and in order to focus more on manga he wished take on the title of Producer. However, this is the first film in the New World Saga, and he wants to show everyone how Luffy got stronger in those 2 years. In order to have everyone enjoy One Piece's magnificent story and battles, Mr. Oda was indispensible. So, Mr. Nagamine and Mr. Suzuki and I went to Mr. Oda's workplace to conduct meetings many times. Mr. Oda dumbfounded us with his ideas, and I think we were able to have a deep conversation every time. We ended up having more contact and meetings for this movie than we did with Strong World. I received a half-joking, half-serious text from Mr. Oda: "Just how much are going to make me write, idiot?!" (laughs)
- What do you want to do in this movie?
- Hum … principles. At first, Suzuki asked me "what would you like to write? And I told him "a clash of principles". - Oda
As you can see, Oda was very involved in the script, not too mention the soundtrack, screenplay, the collaboration with Armani Exchange and Avril Lavigne.
He was credited as the executive producer in the movie, not supervisor. He was however the supervisor for Stampede and not an executive producer for it.
The films, Strong World, Z and Gold, are called films rather movies because of Oda's involvement with them, he had a hand in every area of those movies, and they were very much a collaboration effort with Oda involved from the start.
So I think its safe to say Zephyr and even Tesoro are totally 100% created by Oda, even Wapols brother Musshuru was according to Greg! Musshuru was the very first movie character 100% created by Oda alone.
As for Bullet? While I think his character was still created by Oda, it feels like the movie staff came with an idea to oda of where they wanted to go with the movie and Oda created Bullet accordingly.
I treat Zephyr like I do Shiki. They are canon characters but their interactions with the Straw Hats aren't canon. So Zephyr was an old Navy Admiral who quit but everything after thay is non-canon.
I also noticed besides Sengoku, there's never been any mention of another Admiral from about the time of Rocks to Roger, even to Ohara's destruction.
Kong was a (Fleet) Admiral during that time, if it counts. That character is so weird, I wonder if we will ever see him do something.
Kong was a (Fleet) Admiral during that time, if it counts. That character is so weird, I wonder if we will ever see him do something.
I kinda wonder why the WG needs a Commander-in-Chief anyways. I mean, the Five Elders interact with the Fleet Admiral and the Kings and such.
@Johnny:
I also noticed besides Sengoku, there's never been any mention of another Admiral from about the time of Rocks to Roger, even to Ohara's destruction.
It’s rare we get to see what the One Piece world and its marine organizations were like from before flash backs that take place between 10-30 years ago. It would have been a great opportunity to see the Admirals and what the marine status quo in general was like in the time of Brook’s flashback, but the flashback didn’t really expand to that point, so any high-ranking marines Brook and his pirate associates could have met more than 50 years ago weren’t made known to us.
@Johnny:
I kinda wonder why the WG needs a Commander-in-Chief anyways. I mean, the Five Elders interact with the Fleet Admiral and the Kings and such.
I agree its kind of redundant having a fleet admiral and a commander-in-chief. However I assume the commander-in-chief is responsible of all WG organizations – not just the Marines -- but Enies Lobby, Impel Down, Cipher Pol (except for CP-0), police, the prison guards on the Tequila Wolf. We mostly see the Marines because they're the WG's main fighting force, there's probably a lot more that Kong is in charge of that we don't see that because they're not combat related.
EDIT: I just checked and Kong is technically in charge of the shichibukai as well.
In order to stay a bit on-topic, Tama still got the best volume cover treatment!
Nah Volume 98 so far is the best of Wano, everything is tight and together besides for Raizo jumping up everyone fits in where an issue with 91 is too much space in it.
Nice poses for everyone, Kinemon drawing inspiration from Oden, Izo with his pistol, the dukes roaring and ready in the back with Luffy and Yamato front and center/drawing the eye.
Plus with the added touch of Kaido running through the volume like Shenron that will add upon itself in future volumes just great.
Caribou has yet to make his move. I doubt he's left, even tho it would be smart to. Haven't seen any of the Supernova crews yet either. It's mostly been their captains. I still think Caribou fits Kid's crew.
Nah Volume 98 so far is the best of Wano, everything is tight and together besides for Raizo jumping up everyone fits in where an issue with 91 is too much space in it.
Nice poses for everyone, Kinemon drawing inspiration from Oden, Izo with his pistol, the dukes roaring and ready in the back with Luffy and Yamato front and center/drawing the eye.
Plus with the added touch of Kaido running through the volume like Shenron that will add upon itself in future volumes just great.
Be honest, it's because of the Yamato side-boob.
Kong was a (Fleet) Admiral during that time, if it counts. That character is so weird, I wonder if we will ever see him do something.
I appreciate building up the world without the necessity to make everyone involved in the events.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Johnny:
I kinda wonder why the WG needs a Commander-in-Chief anyways. I mean, the Five Elders interact with the Fleet Admiral and the Kings and such.
Just like you need a Secretary/Minister of Defence as a person of responsibility.
A head of state interacts/can interact with Generals in emergency situations or important decisions, the day to day stuff is in the secretary´s hands.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I treat Zephyr like I do Shiki. They are canon characters but their interactions with the Straw Hats aren't canon. So Zephyr was an old Navy Admiral who quit but everything after thay is non-canon.
Yep that´s how i see it as well, especially since for both movies/characters, Oda drew a special chapter iirc.
Except for trivia, references and origins for the strawhats and Tama, this right here in my bread and butter, let me enlighten you with some quotes.
As you can see, Oda was very involved in the script, not too mention the soundtrack, screenplay, the collaboration with Armani Exchange and Avril Lavigne.
He was credited as the executive producer in the movie, not supervisor. He was however the supervisor for Stampede and not an executive producer for it.The films, Strong World, Z and Gold, are called films rather movies because of Oda's involvement with them, he had a hand in every area of those movies, and they were very much a collaboration effort with Oda involved from the start.
So I think its safe to say Zephyr and even Tesoro are totally 100% created by Oda, even Wapols brother Musshuru was according to Greg! Musshuru was the very first movie character 100% created by Oda alone.
As for Bullet? While I think his character was still created by Oda, it feels like the movie staff came with an idea to oda of where they wanted to go with the movie and Oda created Bullet accordingly.
That's really interesting, thank you for sharing, it would be nice having a collection of these "behind the scenes" so they don't go lost or altered with memory
Kong was a (Fleet) Admiral during that time, if it counts. That character is so weird, I wonder if we will ever see him do something.
Kong is Garp final battle in the final war, King Kong ancient zoan vs Monkey Garp for ''commander in chief'' position
I appreciate building up the world without the necessity to make everyone involved in the events.
I agree, but I would still appreciate some baseline info about the dude the Fleet Admiral has to answer to. I'm not expecting much, I would be fine with Kong being the Frühstücksdirektor of the WG.
You can’t deny greatness:
The first Yamato pose where the club was aimed down looked better composition wise, but I guess Oda went with that pose cause fanservice.
Of all the talk that Oda's women should have more variety of body types, Yamato is one that I think would be better with less boobs. Not necessarily because of his gender, it just would fit the design better.
Looking at that cover i just keep thinking about how ya'll somehow manage to mistake Nami for Yams. It still amazes me.
I guess Oda left out Kaido on the cover, I thought the rough draft showed part of him
Also Yamato’s colors should make Robby happy, he’s said for years the last crew member should have either White, red, purple, lime green or turquoise for there color scheme, Yamato has all of them
Yamato should absolutely have a flatter chest. It would be a more defining character trait. But Oda IS targetting 12 year old boys after all.
Yeah, in color they look nothing alike. Oda has fully settled in on the eyebrows having a sharp Oden style angle to them now even in happy shots, and is doing a lot of little details differently. Nose is longer, hair is more different, etc. Notably in both color pics we've had of Yamato so far, the lips have been filled in darker, something he never does for Nami and Robin.
Designs are still at a glance similar in black and white, but they've very deliberately been moving further apart. If Yamato had started at this point I don't think the complaints would have been as strong. Still nowhere near the "holy crap what is this yellow submarine character" there was going on with Robin, but it's definitely better than it was.
This is notably something he never really bothered to do with Rebecca or Pudding… he just moved Nami out of the story for a year with the first, and put up her hair differently in the second..
It's still close enough that it keeps me from going all in on Yamato joining, but I am at the edge man.
That we saw in the progress cover Oda drew Yamato and Luffy together like six different times and multiple layouts says a lot. He REALLY wanted them together even with all the other scabbards in the mix. But covers don't mean much unless they have other specific details backing them up like a chapter title or clear narrative tie. Though in this case the message is super clear, in all six versions Oda did... Yaamto is NOT one of the scabbards and shouldn't be grouped with them. His final role is not going to be staying behind to help out Momo like they'll be doing.
If anything the color scheme here is going "yeah, all of their dreams are going forward into THIS guy. See how the color grad matches his hair?"
Also Yamato’s colors should make Robby happy, he’s said for years the last crew member should have either White, red, purple, lime green or turquoise for there color scheme, Yamato has all of them
I consistently said white, red or purple. I never mentioned green or turquoise.
But yes, they're all there as we started noting back in October when the colors were first revealed.
Looking at that cover i just keep thinking about how ya'll somehow manage to mistake Nami for Yams. It still amazes me.
The extreme closeups in the first couple chapters were pretty close and jarring, especially with the angry face, I can agree with the criticism then. Not any problem with a medium or long shot shot. I don't think its an issue at this point, Oda's made enough little tweaks. I'd still prefer if it was something a wee bit crazier and more outlandish to show he really spent the time thinking about how to differentiate them in advance, but he's been putting in that effort since the debut.
It's not even slightly an issue in color.
I'm starting to think maybe Oda was thinking about the color design at the outset (for once) and so he didn't realizee initially it was a bit close.
[qimg]https://images2.imgbox.com/55/f1/YURb2z2m_o.jpg[/qimg]
Just noticed Luffy isn't wearing his captain's coat.
Oversight on Oda?
A stretch or not, there are some parallels between the female SH. You're free to not acknowledge it, but there are panel evidence for these.
1. The second recruit of each region
It's fine to think that this is just another "muh pattern" or "cherrypicked points", however the connections are already there in the manga. Any thoughts, bro?
OP & Ref:
I wish Oda would have given Yamato a different pose, but I guess that's what you get when the editors are irritating perverts.
Other than that it looks great. Not my favorite, color-wise, but it's definitely fresh.
A stretch or not, there are some parallels between the female SH. You're free to not acknowledge it, but there are panel evidence for these.
1. The second recruit of each region
- Nami : East Blue
- Robin : Paradise
- Yamato : New World
2. Introduce themselves on higher elevation while looking below at Luffy- Nami : roof
- Robin : railing of the Going Merry
- Yamato : ceiling (and she's taller)
3. They needed to convince Luffy to join first- Nami : ask to partner
- Robin : invite herself in
- Yanato : request to board the ship
4. They're related to other crews who is the main antagonist of an arc- Nami : Arlong Pirates
- Robin : Baroque Works
- Yamato : Beast Pirates
5. They experienced a great conflict at a young age related to their hometown- Nami : village domination
- Robin : Ohara incident
- Yamato : Wano coup
6. Luffy helps overcome their burden related to their past- Nami : wrecks her maps & defeating Arlong
- Robin : survived Buster Call & declares war against World Government
- Yamato : destroy her shackles & defeating Kaido
7. Their dreams are inspired by & related to paper-based work- Nami : maps
- Robin : books
- Yamato : journal
8. Their dreams require them to explore the world- Nami : draws world maps
- Robin : searching for Poneg & true history
- Yamato : going out & experience the outside world
7. Linked to the concept of freedom & liberation- Nami : freeing the village out of invader's occupation
- Robin : dubbed as the Light of Revolution
- Yamato : free herself from her caged life & opening Wano's border
It's fine to think that this is just another "muh pattern" or "cherrypicked points", however the connections are already there in the manga. Any thoughts, bro?
OP & Ref:
To be fair, a lot of those things apply to all strawhats in general.
But that means… yeah.
That cover volume confirms how Yamato doesn't fit with the Scabbards at all.
Yamato is a whole different generation, and it shows.
Oh, and the Minks maintain their color in the ears during Sulong, that's yet another detail we couldn't notice in Carrot for being entirely white.
I wish Oda would have given Yamato a different pose, but I guess that's what you get when the editors are irritating perverts.
Other than that it looks great. Not my favorite, color-wise, but it's definitely fresh.
Yeah, earlier pose was way better.
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Yup, Yamato is possibly part of the new generation of retainers like Shinobu. Luffy approved as well by sending him over there and establishing the introduction
Hmmm, I actually prefer the final pose over the draft one that had Yamato in a more defensive position. Yamato positioned in a 'ready to attack' position looks more dynamic to me.
Yamato not joining at this point would be shocking really. A lot of effort and work being done here that side characters never really get to this extent.
It's fine to think that this is just another "muh pattern" or "cherrypicked points", however the connections are already there in the manga. Any thoughts, bro?
All of this is true but it doesn't mean much when our sample size is so small.
This cover and the WSJ cover exemplify how Yamato is a strong ally for Luffy, but not specifically how or why he will be an actual crewmate, a part of his closest friends.
Looking at that cover i just keep thinking about how ya'll somehow manage to mistake Nami for Yams. It still amazes me.
To me, at least, it was never a matter of mistaking one for the other. I never do such mistakes even for clones like Shirahoshi and Rebecca. And Yamato was different enough from the start. But it is the same template, but only much more detailed.
This cover and the WSJ cover exemplify how Yamato is a strong ally for Luffy, but not specifically how or why he will be an actual crewmate, a part of his closest friends.
Sure. But it's the same treatment Jinbe got. The same type of marketing that actually matters. The effort Oda is putting here can't just be excused.
No one since Jinbe has gotten this much effort put into their character and design. I remain at this position because it makes the most sense to do all of this if they are going to be a main character.
Jinbro and Law are the only ones that had recieved this hero pairing cover treatment lately.
So, Yamato is either a multi-arc, semi-protagonistic ally, like Law, or just the eleventh person.
Law is pretty much a straw hat as he is never gonna leave and is Luffy husband :P
Law fits the role of a very popular hot guy who is friends/rivals with our hero. It makes a ton of sense why Oda started to put a lot of effort into his character when he took off. But he was never going to be a crewmate for many reasons. We are not doing two doctors, he was made in mind of the Supernova group of characters and he serves well where he is at.
Which is something I don't exactly see for Yamato here? Like what, they start a crew of all the tiny bit characters like Carrot, Wanda and uhhhhh Tama or just solo to just travel along with Luffy for the next few arcs for….. what reason?
Why not just join then? The effort, the Ace connection and yes, the hero poses ae crew level here. So what would be the point in just traveling for the last few arcs without joining? Just would seem a waste with all this work put in from the start.
@Dorobō:
So what would be the point in just traveling for the last few arcs without joining?
Leave the room fot the actual eleven person.
Eh just does not really work here nor fit Oda's style.
As I said, it would be shocking if they don't join.
@Dorobō:
Yamato not joining at this point would be shocking really. A lot of effort and work being done here that side characters never really get to this extent.
It really wouldn't be. Yamato is just an ally so far. It makes sense that he'd be on the cover with the other allies. In total, he's spent like, what 30 panels with Luffy? I think a lot of people are linking three key things together and making it equal a new nakama. 1) Him immediately asking Luffy to sail with him (because Oden), 2) knowing Ace and hearing about Luffy, and 3) being strong with a (unknown) DF. I think the first one is the one that people have latched onto the most. A SH knowing Ace isn't new (Jinbe) and neither is being strong with a DF (Robin and to some degree, Brook).
We'll obviously have to see more, but there hasn't been much shown so far that makes me consider him a de facto SH. I still go back to the design (different color hair and horns aren't enough to get past Nami-face), the lack of being foreshadowed, Luffy calling him Yama-dude/Yama-guy, and the fact that he's still pretending to be someone that he isn't.
After the Grand Fleet, people shouldn't be surprised if more characters form their own crews to help Luffy.
What Yamato/Carrot/Tama do next is anyone's guess, but don't be surprised if the reason why there's multiple secondary characters with dreams of becoming a pirate/see the world/have adventures is because they'll form their own crew.
If Yamato was the only Ace-inspired character with dreams of freedom around, I'd be more certain he'd join. But with Carrot wanting adventures and Tama also being an Ace-inspired wannabe… Someone is bound to be left behind, right? What if none is left behind because of them meet each other in the battle and decide to have their own adventure?
Yamato also has known about Luffy longer than any of the other Straw Hats. That's making the Ace connection have a lot more weight. And if Yamato was just an ally like that in the cover, they would not get paired up with Luffy away from all the other allies.
Lack of foreshadowing should not matter much really. Half the crew was not foreshadowed. And the Nami face thing is not really an issue when the design has moved away from that and again, the character pops out in the same way Jinbe did.
As for the Grand Fleet repeat being an option? Why? It's pointless to do it again here. It would be surprising because it's pretty weak writing. Might as well made Yamato back in Dressrosa with less effort then tbh.
And since Carrot and Tama are not joining…. they are for sure not joining Yamato in making a crew.