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Chapter 967: Roger's Adventure
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Then there's all the magical ways that translators adapt the I Am Lord Voldemort thing.
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Don't care about Woger. Those text dumps are extremely thin in content, and that highlight that is hyped so much on reddit (shows they literally know nothing and are impressed by anything), the "clash" between him and Whitebeard, is the most generic and minimalistic fanservice that Oda tends to indulge in. Just spam some "clash" panel half a year, or once a year, looking all the same anyway (well, it's a "clash"…) and everyone is happy for that year. No.
In other words: would have preferred keeping this flashback short and switching back to present time to move the plot forward towards the end of the year. That would have been more positive and satisfying, this is all just a drag. Or at least showing some real fights of the Rocks or anyone else. The text-dumps are super-shallow (and still always incomplete, go figure), Oda shouldn't have wrong ideas about that. It's kind of the same as the clash, just that it's more expositional.
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Are we Reddit-Famous now? Are those people watching us?
Because I always wanted to share some things with the world that usually don't belong here!
Like this strawberry that totally looks like the Op Op no Mi!
That strawberry looks so damn delicious right now.
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Those same cards romanized the the Impel Down warden as "Shilliew", and then Oda released a different official spelling of "Shiryu" just a few weeks later.
The data cards are not infallible, not written by Oda, and not intended for an English speaking audience. The english on them is to look cool to Japanese readers, not be the definitive final word on the matter..
The Shiliew/Shiryu thing isn't a fair comparison. That's a tricky case. The difference here is that Nekomamushi/Inuarashi are undoubtedly their names and catviper & Dogstorm are merely english equivalents that aren't their names.
I have an official, printed in Japan and written in Japanese, published by Jump, Dragonball book called "Dragonball Forever" that romanizes their names "Gokou", "Begeta" and "Klilyn". Doesn't make it right.
Romanization in Japanese is NOT the same as actually translating to English. Especially when the creator isn't fluent in the language. Lets not forget than even in the manga Oda has let "Flanky" slip through a few times, and put in Engrish sentences like "How fast the time fleets". .
Dragon ball name romanizations are some of the worst out there. They don't research deeply into those things nearly to the exent that Oda and his team does. You're correct in saying that rominizations aren't the same as translating into English, but the point I'm making here is that their names aren't supposed to be translated to english equivalents.
Take Sakura from Naruto. Sakura's english equivalent means cherry blossom, but cherry blossom is not her name and no one would ever call her that. Ino's english equivalent is pig, that doesn't mean her name is the english word, pig.
A spelling error like Flanky (because of the Japanese L/R thing) or a grammatically incorrect english sentence isn't the same. If I name my child Obama, that doesn't mean I'm calling them "little beach".
@Kdom:As proof, like Robby said, you have no issue with names like Whitebeard, Blackbeard or Supernova.
For a different reason though. Whitebeard & Blackbeard aren't their real names. Those are epithets. Oda himself has written their names as such which means he intended for those names to be translated. It also helps that the epithets come from a real person. Whitebeard & blackbeard are equivalent to "strawhat","pirate hunter" or "cat burgler"
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I'm still trying to figure out why both Viz and 4Kids! went with "Merry Go" instead of Going Merry. Is it because in Japanese, it has "-go" attached to the end of the ship's name? Is it a ship honorific? Listening to the subs, I know they say "Goingu Meri-go" and "Sauzando Sani-go". Going Merry-go was often shortened to just Merry-go in Japanese. But the "go" isn't part of the name, is it? Did 4Kids! hear this, and just decide that Merry Go sounded better in English, and just ran with it? (That also makes it a pun, like a reference to a merry-go-round.)
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I'm still trying to figure out why both Viz and 4Kids! went with "Merry Go" instead of Going Merry. Is it because in Japanese, it has "-go" attached to the end of the ship's name? Is it a ship honorific? Listening to the subs, I know they say "Goingu Meri-go" and "Sauzando Sani-go". Going Merry-go was often shortened to just Merry-go in Japanese. But the "go" isn't part of the name, is it? Did 4Kids! hear this, and just decide that Merry Go sounded better in English, and just ran with it? (That also makes it a pun, like a reference to a merry-go-round.)
All ship names in japanese end with go, it is not part of the name, but part of the rules of the language.
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It’s becoming more of a translation discussion thread than a chapter one lol
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One thing that's kinda bothered me is that nobody ever translates the admiral titles.
For the longest time, I thought Aokiji was his name rather than a title. -
I could hardly ever imagine replying with such language to anyone in the community, even if they openly insulted me, lot less if I had a position as important as being officially involved with One Piece. It certainly would make sense to do so here being addressed with this language, but there's no way I could do that. (By the way, I hope I'm not being condescending with this or acting like I'm all-mighty for acting this way, I think this should be standard behavior, don't feel it makes me "special" in any way. If it sounds condescending my bad again, I just find it unnecessarily petty.
Stephen post is indeed unnecessarily rude. I guess the disparition of the translator groups have revived the mangaplus translation bashing and he is a bit fed up with it.
Guys a friendly reminder that we are on fan forum and not an official one at that so, regardless of who Stephan is and what is his job/status…etc he is still a member here and can talk freely.
I'm not taking sides or saying who is right or wrong and what not. Remember that we had Super Rude people here and the community was cool with it. Not that I support it or that it should be the norm. But it happens here.
So I do not expect anyone to censor what they really want to say and say it as it is. -
@Bond:
One thing that's kinda bothered me is that nobody ever translates the admiral titles.
For the longest time, I thought Aokiji was his name rather than a title.Yeah, they're epithets like Shirohige and Kurohige but because epithets like those actually existed in English like Blackbeard they were easy to use.
Blue Pheasant and Yellow Monkey are strange and we already have a Monkey D. Luffy so we don't need more monkeys confusing people.
What is a little interesting is that they only ever give one name for admirals. After Aokiji left he just went by his one name, Kuzan. Maybe they're like Brazilian soccer players because once you're part of the Selecao you aren't cool unless you have only 1 name.
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For a different reason though. Whitebeard & Blackbeard aren't their real names. Those are epithets. Oda himself has written their names as such which means he intended for those names to be translated. It also helps that the epithets come from a real person. Whitebeard & blackbeard are equivalent to "strawhat","pirate hunter" or "cat burgler"
]People have given you the Harry Potter names change in different countries. Changing names in translation is a standard ! What the heck is hard to understand here? The bible names have been changed ! In French we call Beijing Pekin, we call Kings William, Guillaume.
Names are changed everywhere, aren't you just being stubborn here ? -
I'm still trying to figure out why both Viz and 4Kids! went with "Merry Go" instead of Going Merry. Is it because in Japanese, it has "-go" attached to the end of the ship's name? Is it a ship honorific? Listening to the subs, I know they say "Goingu Meri-go" and "Sauzando Sani-go". Going Merry-go was often shortened to just Merry-go in Japanese. But the "go" isn't part of the name, is it? Did 4Kids! hear this, and just decide that Merry Go sounded better in English, and just ran with it? (That also makes it a pun, like a reference to a merry-go-round.)
Perhaps controversial, but Merry Go is a change I don't just tolerate, I actually like it a lot more than the literal version, for all the reasons outlined here - the verbal match to the Sunny Go nickname that comes up later and the little bit of merry-go-round imagery that was perfect for the whimsical tone the manga still had when they were using that ship.
And while I'm praising 4kids-era adaptation decisions, their version of Roger's last words is my favourite one to this day. The drama, the sneaky title drop. It just sounds good to me in a way the more literal translations do not.
@Bond:
One thing that's kinda bothered me is that nobody ever translates the admiral titles.
For the longest time, I thought Aokiji was his name rather than a title.This one's always bothered me as well. I feel like I'd prefer them being in English but I've never seen a single version of story willing to try it. People say they'd be less cool or fitting, and maybe in some cases I could agree, but I think Red Dog is a pretty spot on name for a sailor.
I suppose the thing is that the Japanese text does seem to use them like given names, which could make them sound awkward when translated. It might take a little tweaking of the dialogue around the names or the framing of them to make it properly clear that they're epithets/codenames/whatever so it all flowed right, but I'm sure it could be made to work.
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It just can't work. Kizaru directly translated would be Yellow Monkey, that is a weird ass name and we already have Monkey D. Luffy although everyone calls him Luffy.
Even if you tried changing it to synonyms of 1 syllable because they sound a lot better it doesn't work. Something like Gold Ape but we already have Gold Roger, excuse me, GOL D LOCKS Roger.
Oh my god I just solved One Piece!
Gol D fought Locks and One Piece is the perfect bowl of porridge you enjoy sitting on the most comfortable chair after a perfect nights sleep in the perfect bed. Afterwards Joy Boy was eaten by bears and that is why it is a Tale full of Laughs and Tears. You heard it here first.
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It just can't work. Kizaru directly translated would be Yellow Monkey, that is a weird ass name and we already have Monkey D. Luffy although everyone calls him Luffy.
Even if you tried changing it to synonyms of 1 syllable because they sound a lot better it doesn't work. Something like Gold Ape but we already have Gold Roger, excuse me, GOL D LOCKS Roger.
Oh my god I just solved One Piece!
Gol D fought Locks and One Piece is the perfect bowl of porridge you enjoy sitting on the most comfortable chair after a perfect nights sleep in the perfect bed. Afterwards Joy Boy was eaten by bears and that is why it is a Tale full of Laughs and Tears. You heard it here first.
They could make them all one word to be clearer about the distinction. You might have a point for Yellow Monkey, but no one's going to look at Admiral Yellowmonkey and think he's related to Luffy and Garp. And it's not like the syllable count is that important. Yellow Monkey has the same number of syllables as Akainu. And I did say that some dialogue tweaking to have the epithets be used less like given names would probably be necessary, which would make it a lot clearer to begin with, even with two words.
And it's not like Oda's above doubling up on names anyway. We've got Scotch and Scotch. Tsuru and O-Tsuru. Morgan and Morgans. Jean Ango and Jean Barto. Granted those are bit parts, not major characters, but it's not like double ups never happen.
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It just can't work. Kizaru directly translated would be Yellow Monkey, that is a weird ass name and we already have Monkey D. Luffy although everyone calls him Luffy.
How about they only call him yellow?
Red, blue and yellow. The mighty stoplight trio.
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Wolo would probably have rolled better off the tongue. Or Steve, Steve the pirate hunter. It is a strange scenario where only one letter is altered but it ends up feeling more off than if you had changed the whole thing. It's like the worst meet you half way option on the board
"His name is STEVE he's like a samurai. And an L-A-D-Y, Nami's not shy!"
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How about they only call him yellow?
Red, blue and yellow. The mighty stoplight trio.
Stoplights have green, not blue. Blue stoplights lol, don't be ridiculous.
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How about they only call him yellow?
Red, blue and yellow. The mighty stoplight trio.
Where the hell do they have blue stoplights?
@Cyan:Then there's all the magical ways that translators adapt the I Am Lord Voldemort thing.
Oh, yeah, I guess he wasn't called Tom Denem in the original, huh.
On the other end, you have the whole Hodor business, where every translator went collectively "Shiiiiit".
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Where the hell do they have blue stoplights?
I thought Japan did. But if not then my suggestion falls flat
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They really do have blue traffic lights (technically green enough for international standards apparently). Fascinating.
Edit: Also based on something of a language interpretation topic so highly relevant to the current discussion. :p
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Huh, what do you know, they really do~
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Here is where we should all shame fel for his americentric denial of blue trafic lights right to exist.
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I wanna say that Blue Pheasant and Red Dog sound incredibly stupid. But then I'm reminded of back during Dressrosa, when Fujitora was introduced and several chapters later Doflamingo said that Fujitora was conscripted along with "Green Bull". And even though people pointed out relatively quickly that the Japanese name was Ryokugyu, for the longest time people kept calling him Green Bull wherever I saw, even though he was the odd one out as we used the Japanese names for all the others.
Then for a time I think people used kinda a mix and you'd see both names, but I feel like it was only when he was introduced during the Reverie that people definitively called him Ryokugyu and I've not seen Green Bull since. Though there's a huge gap in which I didnt visit this forum so maybe my timeline is off here and people made the switch way earlier. Anyways, just because he was translated to English the first time he was mentioned, people kept calling him by that name for so long. So while my instinct is that the English names sound dumb, maybe if that's the first thing I'd seen I wouldn't be thinking that way.
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I wanna say that Blue Pheasant and Red Dog sound incredibly stupid. But then I'm reminded of back during Dressrosa, when Fujitora was introduced and several chapters later Doflamingo said that Fujitora was conscripted along with "Green Bull". And even though people pointed out relatively quickly that the Japanese name was Ryokugyu, for the longest time people kept calling him Green Bull wherever I saw, even though he was the odd one out as we used the Japanese names for all the others.
Then for a time I think people used kinda a mix and you'd see both names, but I feel like it was only when he was introduced during the Reverie that people definitively called him Ryokugyu and I've not seen Green Bull since. Though there's a huge gap in which I didnt visit this forum so maybe my timeline is off here and people made the switch way earlier. Anyways, just because he was translated to English the first time he was mentioned, people kept calling him by that name for so long. So while my instinct is that the English names sound dumb, maybe if that's the first thing I'd seen I wouldn't be thinking that way.
Because Akainu and Aokiji and much easier for the english reader to remember than Ryokugyu
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Guys if u want debate about the name of a char they still use same word on the kanji/hiragana/katakana… Use it and problem solved..
Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk
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We would probably get used to Yellow Monkey after a few uses and start seeing it as a badass instead of stupid. I mean, that's pretty much how everything in One Piece works and the silliness it carries works particularly well with Borsalino.
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And even though people pointed out relatively quickly that the Japanese name was Ryokugyu, for the longest time people kept calling him Green Bull wherever I saw, even though he was the odd one out as we used the Japanese names for all the others.
Then for a time I think people used kinda a mix and you'd see both names
It just can't work. Kizaru directly translated would be Yellow Monkey, that is a weird ass name and we already have Monkey D. Luffy although everyone calls him Luffy.
But that's just it, they're not names, and were never intended to be; they're epithets, aliases, codenames, titles. As far as I remember, when the admirals were formally introduced into the series, the info boxes stated their epithets, followed by their real name. If the epithets were actually translated, there'd be a lot less confusion among English readers.
And no one is going to think Yellow Monkey is related to Luffy, because if he was, then the name would be Monkey Yellow (or Monkey D Yellow), but that doesn't matter anyway because Yellow Monkey is not Borsalino's actual name, as pointed out when he's first introduced.
I don't even think a lot of dialog tweaking would be necessary to make it work. Once translated, it's pretty clear that all of the Admirals are given codenames that consist of a color followed by an animal, but when left untranslated, that becomes a lot less clear.
Because Akainu and Aokiji and much easier for the english reader to remember than Ryokugyu
They're easier than Ryokugyu, sure, but it still took me quite a while to get all of the epithets straight, and even now I sometimes have to think about it. Also, as someone who never watched the anime, trying to pronounce them has always been something of an adventure.
I also believe this to be yet another case of "it isn't what I read/heard first, so I hate it" for most people.
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Isn't borsalino a hat brand? Like a fedora.
Hat, shirt and tie. The feared admirals.
Missed opportunity for a clothes theme there.
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Isn't borsalino a hat brand? Like a fedora.
Hat, shirt and tie. The feared admirals.
Missed opportunity for a clothes theme there.
Hence why he had it on in the flashback
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The real reason the Admiral codenames aren't translated is because Blue Pheasant doesn't scan well and Yellow Monkey is something you see on a WWII propaganda poster.
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Wow! This was one of the best chapters in a while, and maybe even one of the best in the series! I wonder what the discussion thread is like right now on good old APforums!
…:getlost:
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Ahaha,,.i know.Im too old and lazy to read the post (those are really long ones).To me what matters is what you like most. The translation could be anything.Still pumped for next chapter. Cant wait another week!
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Wow! This was one of the best chapters in a while, and maybe even one of the best in the series! I wonder what the discussion thread is like right now on good old APforums!
…:getlost:
Chapter wasn't that hot in my opinion.
I mean not bad at all. But a pretty standard info dump chapter.
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I thought Japan did. But if not then my suggestion falls flat
The stoplights in Japan are green but because of the oddity of Japanese the 青 (ao) from Aokiji that we call blue is actually used for some green things as well because a long time ago Japanese thought green was a shade of blue, those sillys.
So strange green words that have blue in them.
青信号 blue traffic light
青菜 blue vegetables (we just say greens in English "eat your greens"
青森 blue forest (Aomori - name of prefecture and state)Don't use the word 緑 midori (green) with these things or you'll sound like a crazy person.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Isn't borsalino a hat brand? Like a fedora.
Hat, shirt and tie. The feared admirals.
Missed opportunity for a clothes theme there.
Too confusing, because Akainu is wearing a hat/cap and Kizaru isn't.
Their names should be Glasses, Cap, and Vest.
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Too confusing, because Akainu is wearing a hat/cap and Kizaru isn't.
Their names should be Glasses, Cap, and Vest.
Akainu wears those gaudy mr furely shirts tho.
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The stoplights in Japan are green but because of the oddity of Japanese the 青 (ao) from Aokiji that we call blue is actually used for some green things as well because a long time ago Japanese thought green was a shade of blue, those sillys.
So strange green words that have blue in them.
青信号 blue traffic light
青菜 blue vegetables (we just say greens in English "eat your greens"
青森 blue forest (Aomori - name of prefecture and state)Don't use the word 緑 midori (green) with these things or you'll sound like a crazy person.
There is French Historician call Michel Pastoureau who has made books about the different colors history. It's quite fascinating to see their evolution. For example blue is now the favorite color in most countries but romans didn't even had a word for that color (yes, the sky and the sea were not blue for the roman people)
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@Cyan:
Japanese: He went inside the house.
VIZ version: He went inside the house.
Scanlators: That piece of shit motherfucker asshole went outside the fucking house, goddammit, desu.Japanese: This post deserves some sort of award.
VIZ version: This post deserves some sort of award.
Scanlators: Admiral Maynard! Feel the pain of Sabo and Issho's Victory! -
Japanese: This post deserves some sort of award.
VIZ version: This post deserves some sort of award.
Scanlators: Admiral Maynard! Feel the pain of Sabo and Issho's Victory!"What the hell?!"
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@Bond:
One thing that's kinda bothered me is that nobody ever translates the admiral titles.
For the longest time, I thought Aokiji was his name rather than a title.They actually did that at first in the German translation, Aokiji was Blauer Fasan (Blue Pheasant) and Akaini was Roter Hund (Red Dog). They kept that up throughout Water 7 and Enies Lobby, but changed it once Kizaru started appearing in the story, I guess because his name sounded too silly translated. Plus that was also around the time they changed the translators of the German manga and started trying to be a little closer to the original and less 'creative' in their translation. I do think they should have kept translating those names, because it's really jarring for anybody that doesn't know Japanese when a new admiral is introduced with two different names. It's just confusing when a character has a Japanes name and also a Japanese title that he is often referred to with.
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Lol manga panda was a disaster, slang stream was annoying but better than panda and had better image quality than M+. Jaiminis box was good. I enjoyed reading their translation before I read the official one. I used the official to clear out all doubts and misunderstandings.
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I guess the translation of names mostly comes to down to the creativity of the translator. In Harry Potter, the name translations were almost always pretty close to the original both in sounding and in meaning, but adjusted to the target language.
However, if you read something written in another language, be prepared to get names that sound like belonging to that language. If someone needs some fun trivia, they can always look it up on the internet~
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I still call Akainu "Akainu" because I assumed it was his name and have zero idea was his real one is. Same for Kizaru. To me they just sounds like name and I use them as such. So when I first started seeing Borsalino or Kuzan I thought it was just their last or first Name. Kizaru Borsalino & Aokiji Kuzan.
If it's not a person name put in English. Places name you can go either way.
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They call me blue bird kuzan down at the precinct
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One comprehension issue I don't ever seen brought up is that when they're left in Japanese and written as they are, it's not really clear the admiral epithets are two word things. It's not an issue with most of them, but going in manga only, my mental pronounciation of Akainu was Ack-eye-noo for way too goddamn long, because what other sound was an a and an i together meant to make to my English speaking brain. It was actually years before I stumbled onto an anime clip or some youtube thing that made me twig that aka and inu were meant to be said as their own things.
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One comprehension issue I don't ever seen brought up is that when they're left in Japanese and written as they are, it's not really clear the admiral epithets are two word things. It's not an issue with most of them, but going in manga only, my mental pronounciation of Akainu was Ack-eye-noo for way too goddamn long, because what other sound was an a and an i together meant to make to my English speaking brain. It was actually years before I stumbled onto an anime clip or some youtube thing that made me twig that aka and inu were meant to be said as their own things.
It's interesting, because as a Hungarian, this isn't really an issue for me. "A" and "I" together don't really pronounce any other sounds.
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Anyone else remembers those translations parody from CCC?
You know, the one with the Boogie-Loving Rookie, Bolomeo.
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Obviously this isn't noticeable in Japanese because they use kanji for the admiral epithets but when spelled out in English Kuzan is one letter away from Kazan which means volcano…but he doesn't have the magma fruit!
And the only way to solve the admiral problem is to give them pokemon names that combine those words.
Yellkey, Bleasant, and Rog. Also Grebull and Purpger.
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Purpger is wonderful.