It's funny that CP-0 apparently just walked away after Mjosgard maced Charlos. Like, "I don't have to care about it anymore".
Chapter 908: The Reverie Begins
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@Devil:
That was Absalom's fruit at work.
You're right, I must have missed the SBS where Oda announced it officially.
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Hey, long time reader here. I decided to register to drop my 2 cents on the Im issue, since I saw a lot of negative reactions to Im being introduced late in the game and seemingly out of nowhere. Which I don't think is the case. It is never established that the World Nobles created Marie Geoise / Mariejois. My interpretation has always been that the Holy Land existed before the World Nobles moved there. And the world nobles were either allowed or invited to settle in Marie Geoise / Mariejois. Therefore there must always have been another party in the Holy Land.
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Let's put it this way: Vivi is the "light" to be cleansed due to the fact she's the heir, and also because Alabasta knows too much. Eventually a major uproar happens, that ends up with Shirahoshi's identity as Poseidon being exposed. From this point she becomes the target that must be erased from existence before she becomes a major threat that could potentially end up destroying Marygoise. The Royal Family are then labeled "demons" in the same vein as the Ohara scholars, because of the power of Poseidon being passed through their members, ultimately leading to Fishman Island getting destroyed under the command of a man wearing a strawhat like Luffy.
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Leo is going to kick all five of the Gorosei's asses. You heard it here first.
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@.access:
It's funny that CP-0 apparently just walked away after Mjosgard maced Charlos. Like, "I don't have to care about it anymore".
One does wonder what happens if a noble kills another noble.
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People assuming Im is female because zhe is thin as fuck
Im has fingers that Oda usually draws for women.
Male characters have bigger, squarish ones.
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why do I get the feeling the Sterry's obsession with the Empty Throne means he has seen/will see a Shadowy Ringleader that he shouldn't know even exists???
That also came to my mind. I can imagine him finding an excuse to leave the "boring conversation" and then he sneaks into the throne room to sit on that throne and then sees the scene we have seen on the last pages.
Imu:"This king knows too much. Destroy Goa!"
And Boom, Makino's, Dadan's and the Mayor's lives are on the line.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Let's put it this way: Vivi is the "light" to be cleansed due to the fact she's the heir, and also because Alabasta knows too much. Eventually a major uproar happens, that ends up with Shirahoshi's identity as Poseidon being exposed. From this point she becomes the target that must be erased from existence before she becomes a major threat that could potentially end up destroying Marygoise. The Royal Family are then labeled "demons" in the same vein as the Ohara scholars, because of the power of Poseidon being passed through their members, ultimately leading to Fishman Island getting destroyed under the command of a man wearing a strawhat like Luffy.
And even if Kobra couldn't read the poneglyph in his country, he knew exactly what this poneglyph was saying. The whereabouts of Pluton.
EDIT: But they don't need that huge hat to cover the destruction of FI and blame Luffy. It is a trophy from 800-900 yrs ago. They run the media. And the media write whatever they want. They could write that 3 small fishman-kids (like the ones we saw at gyoncorde plaza repeatedly) played with fire and destroyed FI. Yeah, they can write random stuff just. like. that.
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Somehow i have the impression that anciant Roman Empire is the blueprint for MerryJerry. This Kuma…
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forgot to mention it earlier, but I think it may be possible tu that Lucci and Kaku are somehow being either hypnotized or controlled somehow,
I remember all Cp9 sailed together at the end of their cover story, yet only the strongest are around and all other useless cp9's probably got dispathed. -
I guess Orlumbus is ambidextrous. He throws people with his right arm but writes with his left.
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forgot to mention it earlier, but I think it may be possible tu that Lucci and Kaku are somehow being either hypnotized or controlled somehow,
I remember all Cp9 sailed together at the end of their cover story, yet only the strongest are around and all other useless cp9's probably got dispathed.Jabra and Kaku were equally strong. The difference in their Douriki was merelly technical, there just so we could rank them even though it was such a small difference it probably would have zero effect in a fight (say, like Zoro and Sanji were supposed to be back then). Jabra's absence in the group can't be due to him not qualifying in strength, otherwise Kaku wouldn't be there as well, so we should consider the absence of the other members due to something else… like they simply being somewhere else.
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One thing i do find fascinating is that other than the guy who was smashed in the face the nobles don't seem to be all that flustered that one of them bashed another ones face in with a huge mace. Like oh that Mjosgard is a strange guy oh well guess he beat up my kid.
Maybe the Donquixote family has a special standing. Or Charlos is hated among the celestial dragons and people are used to him getting beaten up.
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So many things to say about this chapter. It eclipsed the talking points of the last two chapters combined with how so much happened in the story.
Edit: Glad to see myosgard is on the up and up even according to other dragons, I know some doubted him but its much better for the story for him to be good.
Kuma is being disgraced by those schmucks, I hope sabo burns down their village. Also didnt know kuma was a king, maybe he was a tyrant, saw the light and became a revolutionary. Or maybe the WG was lying again.
Bonney shows up and her web of relationships is expanded. Maybe she was a relative to kuma or a citizen of his land. Really interested in her again.
The gorosei consider The Nefertari family traitors to the celestial dragons and they think a cleansing of the world is in order. Then we see Im-Sama, mysterious caped pinhead who was carrying luffy and 3 other posters. And now she/he seems to be targetting vivi. Also sitting in that secret throne with the gorosei bowing around her/him. And has Mihawk shaped eyes. WTF
Also Ill go out on a limb and say it here, Im is not the final villain.
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@.:Nonsh:.:
Maybe the Heal Heal Fruit can restore his mind. If it could restore a building…
Or maybe bonney can bring him more younger than when the brainwash happened
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if anyone is going to restore kuma is gonna be Law
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This post is deleted!
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@.access:
Jabra and Kaku were equally strong.
They were equally strong when Jabra had a devil fruit and Kaku didn't. Kaku getting a DF puts him well above Jabra now.
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They were equally strong when Jabra had a devil fruit and Kaku didn't. Kaku getting a DF puts him well above Jabra now.
If that thing measured transformed jabra, and the 2180 is not his default mode. What would be the point of transformation if you already got the power of the beast in your human mode.
One does wonder what happens if a noble kills another noble.
That is what Im and gorosei get to decide, cp0 are dogs of CDs, can't do anything when 2 equal in rank CDs battle.
But it's pretty clear doflamingo M. is special case, the other CDs seem to get along.
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As if Oda would let a woman run the world.
Thats what we all thought before he introduced Big Mom, the uncontested prime candidate to find One Piece and become Pirate Ki.. Queen
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Before this chapter, I kind of thought the 5 elders had some sense despite their previous actions. Like they even met with Shanks and allowed him to come to the holy land.
But how they worship this Im like he is a God or something is kind of weird.
Could Shanks be the 1 giving them clues on who to kill? Lol wild theory. He did come saying he had to talk about a certain person. Now they're going to kill the light or whatever.
Shanks has to have some type of connections with CDs.
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There's no problem to me there: they are doing both things: declaring a war and also rescuing Kuma. Actually the way they discuss the topic about Kuma in this chapter,with out Dragon or Belly in there, and the way they discussed the declaration of war in the past chapter are saying the main goal is the declaration and rescuing Kuma is likely something they just discovered now and is consistent with their main goal.
I sincerely hope that you are correct. To me it felt the other way around, that they are declaring war on the Celestials because of Kuma, which goes against the characterization of revolutionaries in my opinion; and I fear that Oda would take this route solely to hammer in the "good people save their friends no matter the odds" narrative that he has been pushing in for the bulk of the series. I don't mind this characterization on Luffy's crew, because that's who they are, but I felt that the revolutionaries had a distinct and bigger perspective than this.
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Maybe the Ima-sama is the Pandaman and he have the space time devil fruit ?
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@Rodrigo:
Maybe the Ima-sama is the Pandaman and he have the space time devil fruit ?
can he see 14 million possibilities and 1 where he wins?
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They were equally strong when Jabra had a devil fruit and Kaku didn't. Kaku getting a DF puts him well above Jabra now.
Douriki measures physical prowess (since that's the base of the Rokushiki, it makes sense CP9 uses that to rank their strength), so having a DF doesn't influence that. I mean, I assume a Zoan user would get a higher reading if they were "measured" in their transformed state, but we saw Lucci was measured in his base one and Jabra stated his DF also wasn't taken into account in his score.
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Because that´s what he was ordered to do, but then he became really enraged and went straight to the Gorosei to demand an explanation why they had to do all this shit for someone as insignificant and nasty as DD, and that makes it pretty clear what Akainu thinks of them personally.
Well no he doesn't like them personally but he sees their usefulness. I don't think wanting to have the best guinea pigs mean liking the person. Usually guinea pigs are people you don't like. It's making the scum useful. I think our point of difference is that you think Akainu hate pirate so much he sees no value to them when I think he is practical enough to use 3 of them if it means killing thousand more.
I think if they told him he could kill Whitebeard or have have him as an obedient weapon he would pick the second even if he despite Whitebeard. He could have had fuji kill Doffly and pretend Fuji didn't get the message on time, he didn't. Fuji could be talking to him to no longer have warlords instead he talks to Green Bull.
While I do think Akainu hate pirates I think you underestimate how practical he can be about it.
Following orders does not tell you anything about what he thinks himself, while the statement done to Bonney actually does.
And he did not go beyond government orders on Ohara, the order was to kill every scholar of Ohara, he just went beyond what most would do to fulfill that order.
And if that scene tells you anything, it´s Akainu making a clear cut between good and evil, as such he stated that evil has to be eradicated no matter what, which tells you enough about what he thinks about Shichibukai.He didn't blow a random boat of citizens. He blew the official boat sent by the government for citizens. So he most definitely went beyond his orders. And a put a personal stake on it. I think the same way he was fine to use Squardo to weaken Whitebeard and butcher them he is more than happy to have Vegapunk use Kuma to make the weapons that make sure they won't ever need pirates again.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Question here! When we see Bonney after the summit's war, she says ''it's his fault'' and declares that ''we need to go to the new world and find him''.
So based on her new relation to Kuma, her previous statement was about Vegapunk, who modified her beloved one, right?
That's actually an interesting theory I did not think about.
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Im is definitely the biggest ass-pull in One Piece
Im has fingers that Oda usually draws for women.
Male characters have bigger, squarish ones.
looks alien to me
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Im is definitely the biggest ass-pull in One Piece
looks alien to me
it is totally not. it has been alluded since the end of the whitbeard war and dressrosa arc that there was a someone higher pulling the real strings behind the World Government
Oda just took the right time to introduce all of this -
I was thinking about Vivi and nothing seems to justify her to be on that list. At least nothing that wouldn't make Cobra's presence more likely than hers (or both, at least). So maybe people suspecting Im to be an oracle are right and those four were not picked based on who they are now, but on what they will become?
Maybe Im can see the future not unlike Shyarly and she saw those four (Luffy, Teach, Shirahoshi and Vivi) will become the most dangerous individuals for the WG. If it is that, I could see Vivi becoming the head of the countries that will revolt against the WG.
Question here! When we see Bonney after the summit's war, she says ''it's his fault'' and declares that ''we need to go to the new world and find him''.
So based on her new relation to Kuma, her previous statement was about Vegapunk, who modified her beloved one, right?
The problem is that Sakazuki was clearly aware of Bonney's real identity when they met before. So if Bonney is really Sorbet's Queen not just someone impersonating her, and the WG knows about her real identity, how would she be normally taking part on the Reverie and be running away from Sakazuki at the same time?
A possibility could be if she is her descendant, though (Kuma's daughter?), so when she turns older she looks enough like Conney to pass as her.
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Im is definitely the biggest ass-pull in One Piece
The introduction of ambition was a pretty big one too.
But yeah it's defintely up there.
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Regardless of whether Im ends up being the final boss or whatever, it's CLEARLY a huge thing to see people like the Gorosei bowing to the authority of the other.
I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT THIS. I'm so conflicted.
I thought the Gorosei were the ultimate force at the top of the Marines and Celestials. I was okay with this since I LOVE the Gorosei so much. It's precisely because I love the Gorosei so much that I was fine with them being the final Marine villains and was ok with that.
But now seeing them bow to another, on one hand I think it's fine that there's someone they ultimately follow, but it depends on how strongly Oda writes that character and integrates them into the lore and the story. Like, on one hand, I think it's kind of genius or mindblowing that a character with the level of importance as Im to the point where the Gorosei are bowing to him, that Oda didn't even hint at him for the last 800 chapters. Like, at this point where we're already familiar with a lot of the "major, final players" it's crazy we're just now introduced to him.
What would make this all AMAZING for me is that if some OP fan finds out that Im's actually been foreshadowed in the story before somehow in some random chapter. The earlier the chapter the better. But I honestly don't recall anything like that, so I think it'll just rest on how good of a character Im can be.
Ball's in your court, Oda. Reverie's been the most amazing arc since forever and it's not even done yet, but you're playing with some serious fire here and you have to be careful.
But at the end of the day I have faith in Oda as I'm sure most of you will understand. We'll just have to wait and see.
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I don't have a problem with the Kuma/Bonney situation, but I'm just not emotionally connected to that plot yet, which is weird considering it looks so tragic.
I'd argue that the Gorousei still run the government for the most part and they still do this hypothetical "checks and balances" you talk about. This Im-sama guy is the tip of the iceberg above the Gorousei, but probably is only concerned with the ultra blaster mega super important subjects. And he seems to be particularly special to legitimize his authority over the Gorousei (like being an immortal being from the Void Century with some mysterious powers).
that sounds like the kinda asspull that later chapters of Naruto often pulled…god I hope you are at least partially wrong...his eyes even look like doujutsu...ugh... I love Naruto but it really went down hill and I want One Piece to recover, not get even worse. (Dressrosa was the only part 2 one piece arc I have liked, and even it had many issues)
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it is totally not. it has been alluded since the end of the whitbeard war and dressrosa arc that there was a someone higher pulling the real strings behind the World Government
Oda just took the right time to introduce all of thisNo, he just said "national treasure" or "WG treasure", something like that. Nothing about someone pulling the strings
What has alluded anything during Dressrossa ?
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I don't know why people are acting like the Five Elders being at the top was something Oda always stated and now decided to reveal to not be true. I don't know if it was just me, but I never really got the impression that the Five Elders stood at the top of all power, mainly because how early in the manga they were revealed and how the manga never really made a fuss about it.
Until one week ago it was always assumed the Celestial Dragons were above the Five Elders, it was only on 907 that it was revealed that the Five Elders were above the CD (cue people confused last week, even the japanese readers, about the sudden revelation the 5Elders were the highest CD exactly because it was always thought it was the opposite)…
So unless people can get that clingy to their conclusions in one week, I don't get this resilience to accept that we simply didn't knew (and still don't know) how the top of the WG's hierarchy is composed. -
Im is definitely the biggest ass-pull in One Piece
Yes because their presence was totally necessitated before this and they have absolutely no time to make an impact after this point
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No, he just said "national treasure" or "WG treasure", something like that. Nothing about someone pulling the strings
What has alluded anything during Dressrossa ?
Sakazuki's discussion with the Five Elders.
You know, around a 100 chapters ago.
To the point that people ended up thinking that the Elders were subordinate to someone else (most likely the World Nobles, because we had no idea who else could work). In fact, it was only up last week that the Elders were 100% stated to be the top WG officers, and then the tables turned once again.
Hell, were you here during the Chapter 906? People predicting that Im was the true boss of the WG were not few. The theory was popular, because there were things that led some to believe it. There was even some nut rambling about "secret Gorosei" or something like that.
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@.access:
I don't know why people are acting like the Five Elders being at the top was something Oda always stated and now decided to reveal to not be true. I don't know if it was just me, but I never really got the impression that the Five Elders stood at the top of all power, mainly because how early in the manga they were revealed and how the manga never really made a fuss about it.
Weren't they introduce as the head of the government?
Until one week ago it was always assumed the Celestial Dragons were above the Five Elders, it was only on 907 that it was revealed that the Five Elders were above the CD (cue people confused last week, even the japanese readers, about the sudden revelation the 5Elders were the highest CD exactly because it was always thought it was the opposite)…
So unless people can get that clingy to their conclusions in one week, I don't get this resilience to accept that we simply didn't knew (and still don't know) how the top of the WG's hierarchy is composed.The confusion was about how they can celestials not their level of power.
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Sakazuki's discussion with the Five Elders.
You know, around a 100 chapters ago.
To the point that people ended up thinking that the Elders were subordinate to someone else (most likely the World Nobles, because we had no idea who else could work). In fact, it was only up last week that the Elders were 100% stated to be the top WG officials, and then the tables turned once again.
Hell, were you here during the Chapter 906? People predicting that Im was the true boss of the WG were not few. The theory was popular, because there were things that led some to believe it. There was even some nut rambling about "secret Gorosei" or something like that.
Dude, chapter 906 was two weeks ago. That's still an ass-pull
And yes, we always knew that the Gorosei was kinda working in the interest of the Celestial Dragons. But this is entirely different from actually bowing down before one single freaky alien
@Kaido:
Yes because their presence was totally necessitated before this and they have absolutely no time to make an impact after this point
It's not as bad as the rabbit-goddess-from-the-moon, but it's still bad
You know, the Gorosei's presence before now wasn't very necessary either. But Oda introduced them a few hundred chapters before, so that it doesn't become an ass-pull
edit: at best, it was maybe necessary during Robin's flashback. But that thing aside, they've always showed up being overwhelmed by Luffy and other pirates like WB and Teach. Their purpose until now has been to say "wow, that pirate is a pain in the ass"
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Dude, chapter 906 was two weeks ago. That's still an ass-pull
And yes, we always knew that the Gorosei was kinda working in the interest of the Celestial Dragons. But this is entirely different from actually bowing down before one single freaky alien.
How?
For all we know, Im could be a Celestial Dragon. Maybe even the first.
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No, he just said "national treasure" or "WG treasure", something like that. Nothing about someone pulling the strings
What has alluded anything during Dressrossa ?
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- Doflamingo said the existence of the national treasure would shake the world
-Im's (the person who is most likely the national treasure) existence would shake the world
-Doffy needed the personality switch operation to be able to utilize this power
-Im is the ruler of the world. If doffy switched places with him/her he'd be the ruler instead with access to whatever powers they have.The immortality operation is somehow involved with the national treasure
-Im might be related to immortality or something. Doflamingo referenced this again in 906. For people to know about this ability of the Ope Ope no mi, it had to have been used before (maybe on Im)- Sakazuki referenced a higher power than the Five Elders when he talked to them
Both these points came up over 100 chapters ago.
A lot of confusion would be solved around here if some of you had better reading comprehension skills.
- Doflamingo said the existence of the national treasure would shake the world
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It's like two different mangakas. Second half of cake island or dressrosa and start of reverie arc. Run from BM pirates and bake some cake took like what, 35 chapters and now this in 4 chapters.
It's better for luffy to stay away from the story for more arcs if the difference in pace is this big( and it seem to get to the anime too).
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Doesn't seem like a very well-guarded secret if the red dawg already knows about it.
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- Sakazuki referenced a higher power than the Five Elders when he talked to them
A lot of confusion would be solved around here if some of you had better reading comprehension skills.
It's funny how you say that even though you understood what Akainu said completely wrong
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Why do so many people hold the opinion that Ima is the National Treasure? Since Oda revealed that Shirahoshi is Poseidon, more and more people are expecting this to be the bginning of a pattern Oda will follow with Uranus and the Secret Treasure also some person/living thing.
I don't buy it. Or to better phrase it: I always thought that Shiraohshi was a nice exceptional twist, precisely because this was supposed to be the exception. If any big, powerful, ancient thing from the Lost Century is now a living thing… Oda would kill many options he would have for surprises and make everything very predictable. Just my two cents.
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It's funny how you say that even though you understood what Akainu said completely wrong
How did I misunderstand what Akainu said? There were full on discussions last chapter because everyone was confused about Akainu referencing a higher power since the five elders were "supposedly" the highest authority.
@Big:
Why do so many people hold the opinion that Ima is the National Treasure? Since Oda revealed that Shirahoshi is Poseidon, more and more people are expecting this to be the bginning of a pattern Oda will follow with Uranus and the Secret Treasure also some person/living thing.
I don't buy it. Or to better phrase it: I always thought that Shiraohshi was a nice exceptional twist, precisely because this was supposed to be the exception. If any big, powerful, ancient thing from the Lost Century is now a living thing… Oda would kill many options he would have for surprises and make everything very predictable. Just my two cents.
When doflamingo referenced the national treasure we were shown Im alongside the giant strawhat. Obviously, Oda was hinting at the national treasure being in that picture, but most people wrongly assumed it was the strawhat. Knowing what we know now, Im is most likely the national treasure & many things now make sense considering that.
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@Big:
Why do so many people hold the opinion that Ima is the National Treasure? Since Oda revealed that Shirahoshi is Poseidon, more and more people are expecting this to be the bginning of a pattern Oda will follow with Uranus and the Secret Treasure also some person/living thing.
I don't buy it. Or to better phrase it: I always thought that Shiraohshi was a nice exceptional twist, precisely because this was supposed to be the exception. If any big, powerful, ancient thing from the Lost Century is now a living thing… Oda would kill many options he would have for surprises and make everything very predictable. Just my two cents.
Maybe people think that the 3 ancient weapons are living beings because now that one of them is Shirahoshi, if the others are not beings, it'd imply that they're inferior because they'd be man-made. It's the "mythological" argument I guess
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Wasn't Pluton confirmed to be a Warship already? :wassat:
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Gawdam! This arc just keeps adding more and more juicy pieces of information each chapter. This has been an exciting few chapters, and I look forward to seeing the rest roll out.
I am so glad Bonney is back. Great to see actual pirates are gonna be in the story.
Im is utterly intriguing. There's been nothing shown in the past that someone is really at the top of the in-universe Illuminati pyramid. What in the world is he fixated on Vivi for?
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How did I misunderstand what Akainu said? There were full on discussions last chapter about about Akainu referencing a higher power since the five elders were "supposedly" the highest authority.
http://forums.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=49702&page=31&p=3904646&viewfull=1#post3904646
This post and Monkey King's just below it (in last chapter's thread) explain pretty well what Akainu was saying (and he obviously wasn't referencing any higher power, he was just mocking them because as far as he knows they are the highest authority and the other Celestial Dragons went behind their back).
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I like the fact Ym exists. It's good, exciting, and isn't an "asspull" - it wasn't set up, but it's not an asspull. An asspull would be something that significantly changes dynamics when one side clealry has an advantage… but the battle hasn't even started yet, it's just a normal reveal. It isn't a retcon like haki was either, since the fact nobody knows about the king except the elders means the initial introduction of them as "head of the government" wasn't wrong, it was just intentionally misleading. Hell, do the strawhats even know the elder stars exist? How does this change anything?
It's not like the characters have defeated the last big bad, only to find out there's another one (like Naruto or Bleach - bunnygodess and number 10 is number 0 respectively). We're just worldbuilding, it's perfectly reasonable that we didn't know about their existence so far, if people are angry its just that their personal headcanon for how the "final battle" would go is now ruined lol.