Nazoms is actually Pekoms' Sulong form
Chapter 896: The Last Request
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The thing about Sanji's cigarette smoke is that all these siblings and the towns folks look to be in a residential area. There should be nothing suspicious about cigarette smoke at all. I'm sure some of those mooks can probably see Sanji sitting back there in the ally. Naturally the fighters would assume that some of the residents are curiously watching from a distance. Seems pretty realistic and self explanatory to me.
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The thing about Sanji's cigarette smoke is that all these siblings and the towns folks look to be in a residential area. There should be nothing suspicious about cigarette smoke at all. I'm sure some of those mooks can probably see Sanji sitting back there in the ally. Naturally the fighters would assume that some of the residents are curiously watching from a distance. Seems pretty realistic and self explanatory to me.
Pretty much Sanji and Pudding are even in the distance from the mirror so they shouldn't be able to smell them at all.
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It's not like the BM pirates are sitting at a table eating and Sanji is smoking under that table.
He's got quite the distance. I can't smell any smoke of the people 10 metres in front of me
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So Pekoms will most likely reform Nox Pirates and join Luffys fleet..
And I so hoped for new nakama.. beside Jinbe of course.
Oh and Jinbe is no real Strawhat for me until he gets a fight where he is trashed around and barely wins.
Might sound weird but Jinbe is being build up as tank-strong fighter. I would like to see him getting classic 1 vs 1 against tad stronger enemy.Not 2 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 but 1 vs 1 where he gets to fight someone strong from Kaidos crew. Someone bit below Calamities but still a strong fighter. Someone like Perospero in Big Moms crewm
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Is it literally not completely obvious to everyone that Katakuri did not truly want to win this fight? Maybe he did at he beginning, but once his image was tarnished and he started to respect Luffy, it was clear. He continuously encouraged Luffy to surpass his limits, knowing full well that Luffy was powering up throughout the fight, even going so far as to damage himself after Flambe's interruption.
Like, it's not obvious from that flashback that Katakuri, similar to Pudding and ostensibly many others in the BMP, secretly hated his own role and expectations? He literally wasn't even able to lay the fuck down unless it was in secret.
Guys, it is very deliberate that Oda wrote that Katakuri falls onto his back on his own rather than Luffy beating him down. Katakuri was finally able to just let go and get what he obviously wanted all along. All that talk about "Luffy detecting the feelings of others" and "I guess it depends on what kind of person they were" and just the look that Luffy gives him when he finally topples over? I really never thought I'd have to say this but you alleged adults sure cannot follow the themes of this shonen battle manga for teenage boys.
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Maybe say it in a less pretentious way next time.
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Guys, it is very deliberate that Oda wrote that Katakuri falls onto his back on his own rather than Luffy beating him down. Katakuri was finally able to just let go and get what he obviously wanted all along. All that talk about "Luffy detecting the feelings of others" and "I guess it depends on what kind of person they were" and just the look that Luffy gives him when he finally topples over? I really never thought I'd have to say this but you alleged adults sure cannot follow the themes of this shonen battle manga for teenage boys.
IMHO, if Katakuri wanted to continue the fight, he would just do it. Luffy took a battle stance because he knew that (just look at the panels where he had a conversation with Katakuri), but the latter decided to surrender hence him falling on his back (just look at Luffy's facial expression). Those two pages were legendary if you think about it. IMO, this is the best fight in the whole series, and this conclusion is the best that Oda can deliver. You guys should take your time rereading the whole fight and don't let some youtubers influence your opinion.
EDIT : Katakuri is like a mentor to Luffy now. We will see Luffy praising him in the upcoming fights in Wano. -
The thing about Sanji's cigarette smoke is that all these siblings and the towns folks look to be in a residential area. There should be nothing suspicious about cigarette smoke at all. I'm sure some of those mooks can probably see Sanji sitting back there in the ally. Naturally the fighters would assume that some of the residents are curiously watching from a distance. Seems pretty realistic and self explanatory to me.
It's not like the BM pirates are sitting at a table eating and Sanji is smoking under that table.
He's got quite the distance. I can't smell any smoke of the people 10 metres in front of me
10 meters is not 5 to 10 steps away from them. I posted how close they were up there or page 2 and 5 I think have both shots were its clear they are not 10 nor 5 meters away, maybe from the mirror, but not from the closest person to them.
So, it is better to think of chocolate scented smokes.
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Since the one in a million chance will happen. If you were big mum pirates, would you let Morgan go away and makes his article ?
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Nope, so he needs to start running away if he is even dreaming about getting that big scoop.
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Lol, the person that don't know how to analyse a fight telling others they can't. I would say that other people here have been more right than you in their analyses and I still think they are wrong.
Again with the stupid boxing example. Boxing has so many restrictions, conditions and specificities that you can't just do a direct comparison with unregulated fights. In fact you can't even make a very good comparison with freestyle martial arts, a la Dragon Ball tenkaichi budokai, and hardly even can make a direct comparison with other sport martial arts like judo, karate, taekwondo.
Is like saying that if you limit A, B, C, D, … then after that you obviously can make a situation like it. Well, none of those conditions so it really doesn't count.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
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Your analysis that Luffy was a helpless sod that got pummeled to no end is completely wrong. The technique Luffy used requires a lot of patience, he was in control during the fight except when Flampe interfered. Despite taking that damage from Mogura, he quickly compose himself and took the following barage with Haki.
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@Sibersk:
I thought the diced mochi attack knocked him out, it was just delayed.
Like the floor effect was delayed too xDD I can get from a "second floor to fall to the first" but Mirror World is just one ground.
Damn, Oda wanted to make this moment memorable… but all we care is about fights and this was the first time for him to not make an evildoer fail right away after a magnanimous attack, we're all confused xD.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Since the one in a million chance will happen. If you were big mum pirates, would you let Morgan go away and makes his article ?
I've thought this for a while… like hell they will. Luffy, a 500M winning over Katakuri, a 1B... that doesn't look good to marines, imo.
Maybe it will be known after Luffy Vs Momma at FI :ninja:
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Since the one in a million chance will happen. If you were big mum pirates, would you let Morgan go away and makes his article ?
I would not. I'd die of laughter if it turns out that Morgans can defend himself.
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So, from briefly looking through the thread I have a question… are people complaining about BMP not acting like smoke detectors, or are people complaining about the people who aren’t even complaining?
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We've reached the orojackson level of discussion. People are actually measuring the distance between Sanji and the Bigmom pirates to prove that they're closer than Pudding, and eventually that they should easily recognize the smell of his cigarette brand from this distance.
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So, from briefly looking through the thread I have a question… are people complaining about BMP not acting like smoke detectors, or are people complaining about the people who aren’t even complaining?
No, it was a casual response to the real complaint of them not being haki detectors.
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Can observation haki be used with the nose ?
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@K.:
No, it was a casual response to the real complaint of them not being haki detectors.
Seemed like there were posts from many people addressing the same thing.
But doesn’t haki basically just work like that they can sense someone being somewhere, and their strength ro a certain degree. So doesn’t seem odd, and definitely not by OP standards.
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Can observation haki be used with the nose ?
Of course, Fujitora smelled a rotten flamenco from Marineford and simply thought that all Shichi had that smell.
It's sad that Sanji will be kissed, and he won't remember that ;( Oda is very trollish.
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Is it literally not completely obvious to everyone that Katakuri did not truly want to win this fight? Maybe he did at he beginning, but once his image was tarnished and he started to respect Luffy, it was clear. He continuously encouraged Luffy to surpass his limits, knowing full well that Luffy was powering up throughout the fight, even going so far as to damage himself after Flambe's interruption.
Like, it's not obvious from that flashback that Katakuri, similar to Pudding and ostensibly many others in the BMP, secretly hated his own role and expectations? He literally wasn't even able to lay the fuck down unless it was in secret.
Guys, it is very deliberate that Oda wrote that Katakuri falls onto his back on his own rather than Luffy beating him down. Katakuri was finally able to just let go and get what he obviously wanted all along. All that talk about "Luffy detecting the feelings of others" and "I guess it depends on what kind of person they were" and just the look that Luffy gives him when he finally topples over? I really never thought I'd have to say this but you alleged adults sure cannot follow the themes of this shonen battle manga for teenage boys.
I refuse to believe Dogtooth is that careless about his crew an other citizens. He's just not that good at taking damage(or giving) and got beaten to a pulp by Luffy.
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Could someone clarify the final moments of the fight? My understanding is
- Katakuri attempted to do his overhead attack
- Before he could connect luffy hit him with such force he flew half way across the arena
- Nonetheless, the shockwave from Katakuri's attack was enough to shatter the floor underneath Luffy
- Luffy also got knocked out (although that may have been as a result of fatigue rather than the shockwave)
is that correct?
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Could someone clarify the final moments of the fight? My understanding is
- Katakuri attempted to do his overhead attack
- Before he could connect luffy hit him with such force he flew half way across the arena
- Nonetheless, the shockwave from Katakuri's attack was enough to shatter the floor underneath Luffy
- Luffy also got knocked out (although that may have been as a result of fatigue rather than the shockwave)
is that correct?
No, both attacks connected, you can see the blood trail over Luffy's head. 896 starts just after the attacks hit.
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That moment when Oda spends dozens of chapters drawing futile details but can't explain properly the climax of the main fight of the arc.
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At first i was a bit disappointed that the fight was decided by Snakeman, instead of CoO or even a hoped for DF awakening.
But after all it makes sense to me, that Luffy was abe to learn during this fight to better use his CoO, while obviously doesn´t reaching the level Katakuri has.
So the fight was essential of Luffy mastering better his haki, while his other traits and abilities had to be used for the finishing act. -
I really don't like how the fight ended. Katakuri's stamina and endurance spiraled way too fast compared to Luffy's.
Even if it weren't for that, Luffy's last attack and its impact were really lackluster.
Yes, I understand that a lot of Katakuri's weight was centered on the forearm, locking him in place, which is why Luffy's punch caused even more damage than it normally would have. But the King Cobra punch itself was visually unimpressive. I wonder if Oda will have him combine King Cobra and Kong Gun in the future, or something akin to that, if it's possible. Fire King Cobra, let it gain speed, then fire off Kong Gun at the point of impact.
Another thing is that Luffy went all or nothing. Would have been more content if Luffy deliberately used the weight of Katakuri's hand against him. It would go in line with how Rayleigh taught him not to attack without thinking. But no, he tanked that attack with his head, his other hand wasn't even raised in defense. Wonder if it would have been possible for Luffy to turn into Boundman or Tankman while King Cobra is still flying towards the target.
Just my 2 cents. Feel like Oda could have played around with Luffy's fruit a little more here. Showing the advantages it still might have over seemingly superior devil fruit.
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I really don't like how the fight ended. Katakuri's stamina and endurance spiraled way too fast compared to Luffy's.
Even if it weren't for that, Luffy's last attack and its impact were really lackluster.
Yes, I understand that a lot of Katakuri's weight was centered on the forearm, locking him in place, which is why Luffy's punch caused even more damage than it normally would have. But the King Cobra punch itself was visually unimpressive. I wonder if Oda will have him combine King Cobra and Kong Gun in the future, or something akin to that, if it's possible. Fire King Cobra, let it gain speed, then fire off Kong Gun at the point of impact.
Another thing is that Luffy went all or nothing. Would have been more content if Luffy deliberately used the weight of Katakuri's hand against him. It would go in line with how Rayleigh taught him not to attack without thinking. But no, he tanked that attack with his head, his other hand wasn't even raised in defense. Wonder if it would have been possible for Luffy to turn into Boundman or Tankman while King Cobra is still flying towards the target.
Just my 2 cents. Feel like Oda could have played around with Luffy's fruit a little more here. Showing the advantages it still might have over seemingly superior devil fruit.
I felt Katakuri haven't been in a fight that long in his life. He probably closes fights pretty quickly, they can't hit him and he knows where the opponent will dodge too. Those two attributes will make him resolve fights very fast. This fight was overdrawn for him, he complaned about how frustrating it was seeing Luffy dodge most of the attacks.
Luffy's fist on the last attack was huge, probably covered the entire abdominal area of Katakuri, he also got hit where he stabbed himself with Mogura.
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My only complaint is that we did not see the impact of that final strike. I think seeing Luffy take that hit while Kata was pushed back would have been a meaningful scene to have.
In retrospect, I kinda wish Brulee had played the Flampe 1.0 role more. I cannot remember if she tried helping Katakuri during his fight, but building some foreshadowing for the Flampe scene would have been great. The same way Kata stopped Luffy attacking her, he could have done the same from her. That way when she is eventually captured by Luffy we could say that she was still trying to intervene. Like her jumping from a window to hold him in place while his haki is depleted, but Luffy smiles and just jumps to her.
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Brulee is a closet Strawhat fangirl
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I felt Katakuri haven't been in a fight that long in his life. He probably closes fights pretty quickly, they can't hit him and he knows where the opponent will dodge too. Those two attributes will make him resolve fights very fast. This fight was overdrawn for him, he complaned about how frustrating it was seeing Luffy dodge most of the attacks.
Luffy's fist on the last attack was huge, probably covered the entire abdominal area of Katakuri, he also got hit where he stabbed himself with Mogura.
Things like that rarely matter in OP. Nowhere was it hinted that Katakuri doesn't have enough stamina compared to Luffy, or that he's anything less than a fighting machine. Luffy has been going non stop for the last couple of days while Katakuri was pretty well rested and even managed to take a snack amidst the fight.
I can buy what you said, but you're filling in the blanks that the author left open to interpretation.
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Well Katakuri did ask "How many years has it been since I've been injured in a fight ?"
While Luffy pushes his limit farther with every fight.
Luffy is certainly more used to fighting with severe injuries and very low stamina. -
yeah, Cracker and Katakuri were making it sound like they had never been hit in years
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@K.:
My only complaint is that we did not see the impact of that final strike. I think seeing Luffy take that hit while Kata was pushed back would have been a meaningful scene to have.
In retrospect, I kinda wish Brulee had played the Flampe 1.0 role more. I cannot remember if she tried helping Katakuri during his fight, but building some foreshadowing for the Flampe scene would have been great. The same way Kata stopped Luffy attacking her, he could have done the same from her. That way when she is eventually captured by Luffy we could say that she was still trying to intervene. Like her jumping from a window to hold him in place while his haki is depleted, but Luffy smiles and just jumps to her.
god I hope the anime shows that scene instead of deciding to be perfectly 1 vs 1
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It's either have the fandom btch and moan now or btch and moan down the road when Luffy defeats a Yonkou, Admiral, or other big-name obstacle he's gonna have to defeat on his way to becoming Pirate King. All of a sudden it's a problem that Luffy is tanky. Or that he packs a mean punch. Or that he has the stubbornness of a piece of rubbery iron. Where have you guys been for the last almost-900 chapters?!
He's the main protag, so the protag has to win. The only thing the author can do is make sure that he really struggles in the process. And Oda succeeded on that front shrug.
Luffy HAS to be this tough! He actually needs to be MUCH tougher, but he at least has to get there. Why is there such an issue with us seeing him get there?! I thought that's why everyone was reading this thing in the first place?
I wasn't around this forum back then (or reading the manga weekly), but did the fandom have this big an issue when Luffy defeated Lucci? Or freaking Crocodile, when he actually should've been KILLED 3 separate times?
Good Books for Katakuri:
- The Art of Honour: Why family treason is not honorable
- How to end your enemy in less than 8 hours, for dummies.
- What to do when your opponent is a auto-Phoenix-down Hack?
I want to add this to my sig, but it's already long enough as is :'-(
Good thing about ending of this fight is anime can't end it with pushing contest
Toei: "Hold my sake…"
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I really don't like how the fight ended. Katakuri's stamina and endurance spiraled way too fast compared to Luffy's.
Even if it weren't for that, Luffy's last attack and its impact were really lackluster.
Yes, I understand that a lot of Katakuri's weight was centered on the forearm, locking him in place, which is why Luffy's punch caused even more damage than it normally would have. But the King Cobra punch itself was visually unimpressive. I wonder if Oda will have him combine King Cobra and Kong Gun in the future, or something akin to that, if it's possible. Fire King Cobra, let it gain speed, then fire off Kong Gun at the point of impact.
Another thing is that Luffy went all or nothing. Would have been more content if Luffy deliberately used the weight of Katakuri's hand against him. It would go in line with how Rayleigh taught him not to attack without thinking. But no, he tanked that attack with his head, his other hand wasn't even raised in defense. Wonder if it would have been possible for Luffy to turn into Boundman or Tankman while King Cobra is still flying towards the target.
Just my 2 cents. Feel like Oda could have played around with Luffy's fruit a little more here. Showing the advantages it still might have over seemingly superior devil fruit.
All in all I also hoped for something more impressive when it comes to impact or final of fight being bit more flashy so to say.
Though I expect that Oda will give some time to shine to Sanji and he will receive something most visually impressive.
I expect to see Sanji fighting Daifuku in air after Daifuku handles Sanjis brothers(Germa helping with BM fleet and transporting Luffy through air). Germas flying ability was hyped a bit but left mostly unused, it might be saved for last bit of this arc. Germa is not very very strong but sure they are flashy and have their technology that should get some love together with their army that Big Mom wanted so much.
I will be suprised if Daifuku was hyped for nothing(Jinbei line about him being tough and some scenes from and after Wedding). I will also be suprised if Daifuku cannot fly with help of his Genie.
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@All:
Can someone explain how come Luffy's King Cobra arm was straight instead of bent like how it was in the previous chapter?
Look at those two panels LJSR posted. When he hit Katakuri, I think it's safe to assume Luffy pulled his arm all the way through and kept the punch going, instead of continuing to extend, if that makes sense.
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@Kaido:
I'm not too big of a fan of the lack of impact in the final blows, but Luffy and Katakuri's final exchange was pleasant. Pretty chill chapter which is nice after what the last one contained, good character moments. Mont-d'Or telling Morgans that he wouldn't get his big scoop was pretty funny. It was neat seeing Sanji undercover, and that moment with him and Pudding was admittedly pretty sweet, even if their road here was rather bumpy.
But really Oda? Introducing this Nazoms guy out of absolutely nowhere when the arc's about to end? At least Gastino had enough time to make an impression, but this is like prime asspull territory right here. How does he know Pedro? Did he escape from the circus? Why was he foreshadowed by the title of Chapter 888? I mean, honestly Pekoms could've been inserted here and that would've made more sense.
Seconded, the conclusion came way sooner than I expected and had no depth, Oda could have taken at least a splash page to build it up or something. What I found interesting was that Luffy fell through the floor, thus getting hurt worse when he collapsed, compared to Katakuri who just collapsed where he stood, and on top of that, Luffy climbed out of the floor despite all his injuries, whereas Katakuri just had to stand up from where he fell. It's like that saying, "You take one step, I'll take two" when someone is trying to surpass an opponent or rival, and Luffy's doing that here, even after the fight is over. Pretty interesting. Gotta respect Kata for acknowledging Luffy, though he went down a lot easier than I thought. Guess him living the life of having everything come easy softened him up. His attacks were definitely greater than his defense.
But I loved Mysteroms or whatever the translation was supposed to be, so hilariously out of left field, such a lousy disguise AND name, fantastic. Really, he's not getting away with that, so unless Kata's taking over the family and reform things if Big Mom goes comatose from the cake, Brulee's gonna rat him out and he'll be in hot water.
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It's either have the fandom btch and moan now or btch and moan down the road when Luffy defeats a Yonkou, Admiral, or other big-name obstacle he's gonna have to defeat on his way to becoming Pirate King. All of a sudden it's a problem that Luffy is tanky. Or that he packs a mean punch. Or that he has the stubbornness of a piece of rubbery iron. Where have you guys been for the last almost-900 chapters?!
He's the main protag, so the protag has to win. The only thing the author can do is make sure that he really struggles in the process. And Oda succeeded on that front shrug.
Luffy HAS to be this tough! He actually needs to be MUCH tougher, but he at least has to get there. Why is there such an issue with us seeing him get there?! I thought that's why everyone was reading this thing in the first place?
I wasn't around this forum back then (or reading the manga weekly), but did the fandom have this big an issue when Luffy defeated Lucci? Or freaking Crocodile, when he actually should've been KILLED 3 separate times?
How Luffy wins is still important for people in regards to suspension of disbelief. People don't like reading a story where things happen for the sake of planning future events if they don't seem to make sense in the moment. So the topic at hand isn't that incomprehensible.
The only big issue people seem to be gravitating around is how long the Luffy vs Katakuri fight lasted. How unlike all of Luffy other battles aside from Cracker (which had Luffy constantly running away and replenishing his health by eating, along with Nami's assistance), this fight lasted for multiple hours. It's not about Luffy being tanky, but exactly how tanky he is.
With that said… I don't have a problem with it. Ignoring that timeskip of hours, Luffy vs Katakuri isn't that different from the punishment Luffy has had to endure in all of the other fights. Factoring the timeskip of hours, it sounds a bit silly to say that Luffy is able to withstand this amount of punishment for so long on paper. But Oda did a good job of emphasizing how Luffy adapted his Observation Haki for dodging and blocking Katakuri's attacks. That, and I don't really take the timeskip seriously since battles that take place for hours/days in this series are exaggerated ways of saying "these two combatants are practically equals in strength". Base Luffy's attacks even became slightly relevant again. They probably barely phased Katakuri individually, but the damage definitely added up. I'm still convinced that Gear Fourth (and inevitably Awakening) are going to be Super Saiyan crutches for Luffy during the rest of the series, but this was still a pleasant surprise in strategy.
I think maybe what could allow people to swallow this battle more is if the battle had more emotional stakes. That's the recurring complaint I see about this fight, and something I had an issue with until Katakuri's reputation was on the line (and even then, I wouldn't have minded Luffy having more of a compelling reason to fight than Zenkai). How it's solely about Luffy getting stronger in contrast to almost every other Luffy fight being about him putting his life on the line for the sake of his friends and piracy pride. If the battle emphasized how Luffy had to keep enduring and push past his limits. Like when Luffy had to use 110% of his strength to stop Lucci from killing Usopp after already being motionless on the ground from one Ryokugan or Usopp being smashed with a 4-ton bat and still getting back up because Mr. 4 and Miss Merry Christmas were making fun of his captain's dreams.
One Piece battles rely a lot on raw emotion-invested willpower to pull off impossible feats of durability and offense, making the fights not only visually stimulating but also heavily cathartic in making us want characters to succeed past impossible odds. This fight was lacking that, so upping the ante this much for Luffy can seem disorienting for people. Now, I don't think that every Luffy has to be some dire death match for the sake of protecting everybody else. I can get into fights that deviate from this formula to switch up how formulaic One Piece can get from time to time and to spread out these death matches so they're more special. There is a reason why Luffy vs. Bellamy is so memorable narratively despite technically being a huge step down from Luffy vs Crocodile. But even then, this fight had the baggage of having all of its scenes split up throughout the cake shenanigans to make it feel dragged, introducing Observation Haki foresight which is really how Observation Haki should have been used in the first place, Luffy coincidentally finding Brûlée and having near-pointless short fight break hopping through Totland mirrors, and Katakuri's family status/discrimination which had little-to-no foreshadowing before the fight began.
All in all though, I still think it's a good fight that managed to juggle all of these narrative responsibilities better than I thought it would. It's definitely not perfect, but the Katakuri face reveal, the fight choreography, and art make for some of the best fight moments we've had in years. I would put this fight above Luffy vs Doflamingo easily since it handled the "villain activates Awakening" and "Luffy has to buy time to recover" phases much more sensibly.
My only real complaint is how the "Anything you can do, I can do better" theme at the beginning of the fight went absolutely nowhere. Both of these stretchy fighters ended up relying on alread-existent power-ups and Haki abilities to win instead of covering the potential advantages rubber can have over mochi. Thus adding onto my ever growing evidence pile of how mirror fights almost always end up looking monotonously boring and senseless in any fictional series (I'm looking at you, Flash vs. Reverse-Flash).
Still, this is easily the best post-timeskip fight we've had thus far. Which isn't THAT high a bar to pass, but still matters.
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I’m ok with Luffy vs Katakuri not being framed like the big emotional climax because
A. Katakuri is being framed differently from most villains.
B. The fight isn’t actually the big emotional climax. What it means afterwards was always most important (also the cake). -
Which Charlotte family member has your favorite design? Personally, I think that former Sweet Commander looks like a Snack.
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Amande, Prauline, and Katakuri are my favorites in no particular order.
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@Sibersk:
I’m ok with Luffy vs Katakuri not being framed like the big emotional climax because
A. Katakuri is being framed differently from most villains.
B. The fight isn’t actually the big emotional climax. What it means afterwards was always most important (also the cake).Of course. But those qualities can easily make this fight seem underwhelming compared to Luffy's other fights for certain fans. Or be mishandled in general.
@Medical:
Which Charlotte family member has your favorite design? Personally, I think that former Sweet Commander looks like a Snack.
Big Mom herself lol. I love how colorfully witch-esque and intimidatingly gluttonous she looks, and her three Homies look sick (especially Napoleon for being a bicorne pirate hat and a sword). Her skinny look in recent chapters is also charmingly threatening.
Aside from her though… Most of them haven't really wowed me as much as, say, Doflamingo's crew often did (Doflamingo and Trebol are probably two of my top favorite designs in all of One Piece). I love Tamago's design, but he is not a Charlotte. I like Perospero, evil clowns often jive with me and I like the candy cane. I like Katakuri when his mouth is being shown. I kind of like Mont-d'Or, Amande, Galette, and Opera. Praline is a very nice female design that's different from Oda's usual run of the mill style. Pudding looks cool in her wedding dress when making devious faces.
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@Medical:
Which Charlotte family member has your favorite design? Personally, I think that former Sweet Commander looks like a Snack.
Walking Fart joke Daifuku and Katakuri share the number 1 spot. Daifuku is a hilarious Odalike design while Katakuri is simply cool.
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Design? I would go with Amande. There's some unnamed Charlotte kids as well.
I loved Praline's before seeing how it was colored, though (I still like it, just not as much).
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@Count:
Of course. But those qualities can easily make this fight seem underwhelming compared to Luffy's other fights for certain fans. Or be mishandled in general.
I guess since Katakuri had already changed so much in the eyes of his family after gutting himself and taking off his scarf, him being defeated hardly matters by comparison. Having already accepted Luffy as a worthy opponent was an unprecedented occasion so that transformation for Katakuri was more meaningful even than his first defeat. How often do Luffy's opponent have a pause of that sort BEFORE being beaten? I'd still rather have seen a more brutal climax, like Kata was really pushing himself rather than just playing around like before (it still didn't feel like he was really straining to pull out a win) and couldn't believe how Luffy's resolve was empowering him, but that can wait for another fight.
Big Mom herself lol. I love how colorfully witch-esque and intimidatingly gluttonous she looks, and her three Homies look sick (especially Napoleon for being a bicorne pirate hat and a sword). Her skinny look in recent chapters is also charmingly threatening.
Aside from her though… Most of them haven't really wowed me as much as, say, Doflamingo's crew often did (Doflamingo and Trebol are probably two of my top favorite designs in all of One Piece). I love Tamago's design, but he is not a Charlotte. I like Perospero, evil clowns often jive with me and I like the candy cane. I like Katakuri when his mouth is being shown. I kind of like Mont-d'Or, Amande, Galette, and Opera. Praline is a very nice female design that's different from Oda's usual run of the mill style. Pudding looks cool in her wedding dress when making devious faces.
What was the name of that sister who was in that trio shot of new sisters with Smoothie recently? The thin one, not the fat one. She was the hottest daughter yet IMO. That one's the fave right now.
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I guess since Katakuri had already changed so much in the eyes of his family after gutting himself and taking off his scarf, him being defeated hardly matters by comparison. Having already accepted Luffy as a worthy opponent was an unprecedented occasion so that transformation for Katakuri was more meaningful even than his first defeat. How often do Luffy's opponent have a pause of that sort BEFORE being beaten? I'd still rather have seen a more brutal climax, like Kata was really pushing himself rather than just playing around like before (it still didn't feel like he was really straining to pull out a win) and couldn't believe how Luffy's resolve was empowering him, but that can wait for another fight.
What was the name of that sister who was in that trio shot of new sisters with Smoothie recently? The thin one, not the fat one. She was the hottest daughter yet IMO. That one's the fave right now.
Charlotte Cinnamon 16c's
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I guess since Katakuri had already changed so much in the eyes of his family after gutting himself and taking off his scarf, him being defeated hardly matters by comparison. Having already accepted Luffy as a worthy opponent was an unprecedented occasion so that transformation for Katakuri was more meaningful even than his first defeat. How often do Luffy's opponent have a pause of that sort BEFORE being beaten? I'd still rather have seen a more brutal climax, like Kata was really pushing himself rather than just playing around like before (it still didn't feel like he was really straining to pull out a win) and couldn't believe how Luffy's resolve was empowering him, but that can wait for another fight.
The pause and questioning of Luffy's goalswas cool as hell, but you described why the fight is impactful for Katakuri. With Luffy in contrast, there are a lot less stakes than usual. Although he still had one of his best showings ever in this fight.
What was the name of that sister who was in that trio shot of new sisters with Smoothie recently? The thin one, not the fat one. She was the hottest daughter yet IMO. That one's the fave right now.
Thin tall one is Cinnamon, fat one is Citron. No matter how hot Cinnamon might be, that line about thinking all men are stupid is an immediate turnoff (still surprised that Smoothie shut her down. That's the one time she actually impressed me).
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I liked the post fight scene. The guy with Future Sight complimenting the guy who cant about how hes looking into the future. Katakuri falling on his back which signals he truly is defeated. And Luffy showing his respect. Its just such a shame that the fight didnt lead into that at all.
The arguments about Luffy winning due to durability/endurance are nothing more than a giant No Limits Fallacy. If Luffy took 10, 100, 1000, 10000, 100000 or w/e amount more hits, people would still defend it by saying "Luffy has stamina and endurance, therefore its okay" But clearly it isnt. Luffy being made out of Rubber does not justify having an endless amount of damage thrown on him and then being completely fine. Katakuri has taken less than 1/10 of the damage that Luffy has received. Katakuri has shown to be superior to Luffy in basically every single aspect of the fight. Yet he lost, because Oda cannot make a fight end logically to save his life.
If this was between individuals who had the same power roughly like Gear 2nd Luffy and Leopard Rob Lucci, then I wouldnt have a problem with this. Because it clearly was a back and forth that could go either way. But the gap here between Katakuri and Luffy was simply too big for this conclusion to the fight to make any sense. If Fairy Tail did this we would rightfully criticize it. If Natsu was getting his ass kicked 90% of the fight and then somehow starts defeating his opponent, we obviously would call it out. Yet because its One Piece this gets a pass.All Oda would have needed to do was simply have Katakuri stand over a defeated Luffy, but because he is honorable and respects him, throws him outta the Mirror World so Luffy can meet up with his crew and escape Big Mom. There. The hype of Katakuri remains intact, and the plot continues just like before. Then when Luffy faces his next foe in the next arc, he can say he got stronger from his loss or w/e and continue like normal. Everything resolved nicely.
I just like my fights to make sense. Its important. Its what keeps things believable and allows for tension to exist. When fights end in ridiculous ways where the MC clearly shouldnt have won, the tension decreases.
Heck, not to mention the whole flashback with Rayleigh talking about how Haki gets stronger in the middle of a life threatening fight is just basically Odas way of pulling powerups out of nowhere during a fight as the plot demands it. But notice how it will only affect the good guys and not the bad guys. So clearly this universal rule of Haki isnt so. Heck, I dont even recall Fairy Tail trying to give that type of explanation as to why somebody who gets his ass kicked 90% of the time ends up winning in the end. Even Mashima wouldnt blatantly tell us that, because obviously that would make us criticize it as a way to pull plot powerups out of a hat. (Of course Mashima did a bunch of other terrible things)
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Luffy VS Katakuri did almost everything I would have hoped it would. It didn't resort to finishing things off with the obvious water weakness, concentration weakness or Haki limit. Katakuri didn't even bother with Brook, Nami or Chopper when he had the chance but had he beaten Luffy and been able to comfortably walk away from the fight he would have been on the rest of the crew as well. It wasn't emphasized much that Luffy had to keep everyone safe beyond the dual " they're counting on me" line but it was there. And I'm glad it was emphasized only as much as it was in part because of who Katakuri turned out to be as well as Oda saving the ultimate saving grace for last.
The weight of Luffy's fight being the end all be all to saving the crew, the allies, the locals and the enemies themselves is tried and true and wonderful. Thankfully this is a little different, something i've been wanting for a very long time now. The emotional stakes will continue to pile up, it'll get heavier and heavier and finally it won't be solved by Luffy. Instead it's all being saved for Sanji and I couldn't be more pleased.
Now that Luffy has beaten the second biggest obstacle in the arc I expect things to seemingly get better before they go horribly wrong and the cake saves all.
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@Count:
The pause and questioning of Luffy's goalswas cool as hell, but you described why the fight is impactful for Katakuri. With Luffy in contrast, there are a lot less stakes than usual. Although he still had one of his best showings ever in this fight.
Thin tall one is Cinnamon, fat one is Citron. No matter how hot Cinnamon might be, that line about thinking all men are stupid is an immediate turnoff (still surprised that Smoothie shut her down. That's the one time she actually impressed me).
For YOU maybe, LOL. Even Hancock turned that one around, so who knows. I wonder what if any DF power she might have. Besides, are we crediting any of Big Mom's family having an overabundance of intelligence or filters on their mouths or behaviors?
I liked the post fight scene. The guy with Future Sight complimenting the guy who cant about how hes looking into the future. Katakuri falling on his back which signals he truly is defeated. And Luffy showing his respect. Its just such a shame that the fight didnt lead into that at all.
Honestly, if I had one little wish, there would have been something about Luffy questioning Katakuri's motives and ambitions (in comparison to his own), and really making him confront what kind of leader he would be for the family in the future, something he probably didn't really think about much being such an enforcer and not a leader. Now that Kata threw away all that pride and family respect crap, that would probably really shake him and give Luffy much more of an edge in terms of 'I need to win this fight, and I will because I want it more'.
The arguments about Luffy winning due to durability/endurance are nothing more than a giant No Limits Fallacy. If Luffy took 10, 100, 1000, 10000, 100000 or w/e amount more hits, people would still defend it by saying "Luffy has stamina and endurance, therefore its okay" But clearly it isnt. Luffy being made out of Rubber does not justify having an endless amount of damage thrown on him and then being completely fine. Katakuri has taken less than 1/10 of the damage that Luffy has received. Katakuri has shown to be superior to Luffy in basically every single aspect of the fight. Yet he lost, because Oda cannot make a fight end logically to save his life.
A tad harsh on that last bit. Only things like the Lucci fight really ended with an asspull, but Luffy wasn't on the receiving end of nearly all the ass-kicking during that fight. With this one, Oda not putting in little things like, "Oh, Luffy's been munching on mochi the entire time, using that to curb the damage and restore his energy throughout, ergo him being able to take all that damage without just completely succumbing," was really asking a lot and I'd prefer not to go with this excessive approach in the future. Hopefully Oda gets some feedback on that if a significant amount of the fanbase is of that mind and will take heed.
If this was between individuals who had the same power roughly like Gear 2nd Luffy and Leopard Rob Lucci, then I wouldnt have a problem with this. Because it clearly was a back and forth that could go either way. But the gap here between Katakuri and Luffy was simply too big for this conclusion to the fight to make any sense. If Fairy Tail did this we would rightfully criticize it. If Natsu was getting his ass kicked 90% of the fight and then somehow starts defeating his opponent, we obviously would call it out. Yet because its One Piece this gets a pass.All Oda would have needed to do was simply have Katakuri stand over a defeated Luffy, but because he is honorable and respects him, throws him outta the Mirror World so Luffy can meet up with his crew and escape Big Mom. There. The hype of Katakuri remains intact, and the plot continues just like before. Then when Luffy faces his next foe in the next arc, he can say he got stronger from his loss or w/e and continue like normal. Everything resolved nicely.
I just like my fights to make sense. Its important. Its what keeps things believable and allows for tension to exist. When fights end in ridiculous ways where the MC clearly shouldnt have won, the tension decreases
This is it in a nutshell. I could have sworn even before grabbing Brulee and jumping out of the mirror for a breather, Luffy had gone G4 and called it off before he lost the ability to move, so him later on stating that it was strong enough to beat Kata made no sense (assuming I'm not mistaking it for G3) since if it was indeed as strong as that, no amount of size or blocking on Kata's part should have made a difference. Now, Kata having never faced an opponent of that magnitude before and allowing Luffy to recover so he could go G4 again after having run out of time would have been a really awesome turnaround even if Luffy had been getting bitch-slapped around in base form and G2 and G3. They could have had one of those meaningful conversations while Luffy's laying there, promising to kick his ass once he was able to stand up and use Haki again. But there was no balance here and while I can theorize that Kata never having a worthy opponent and not being used to taking punishing levels of damage made him a bit soft in terms of how much of it he could take before going down, that still doesn't cover why Luffy was able to keep going the entire time.