I'm really intrigued to see how Napoleon can contribute to Big Mom's abilities. I just know that it's going to be something astonishingly kooky just by looking at Baron Tamago's Devil Fruit .
Chapter 853: Not Here!!!
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Ok didnt expect to be shoujo style ,it was nice suprise.
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That is the most Zoan-like Paramecia I have ever seen.
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@Kaido:
Also, did anyone notice this?
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/1Gje11A.png[/qimg]
Why would she have that thought??
I guess this enforce the Pudding allied with Capone theory.
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yeah,brook hid the poneglyph copy inside his skull@RobZilla:
Literally the only thing I raised an eyebrow at was Luffy being glad that Sanji "wasn't tricked".
He was very much tricked, Luffy, and so were you!
it's more like "now i don't have to find him in the castle to tell him about it, i can wait in the designated spot"
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@Tom:
This probably comes down to personal preference, but I actually much prefer using the original name whenever possible, and then explaining any jokes in a TL note. The translations to my native language tried their best to translate literally everything, even if only to make a single joke work. Then you'd be stuck with a silly name for a character whenever they're referenced in future. For example the Impel Down Guard Saldeath (Sarudesu) was translated as something like M. onkey so that the joke could be understood. The problem is that in my native language it sounds really stupid and the name was for a character whose name was still referenced later. In a similar fashion, Baron Egg and Count Chicken sound a bit silly to me.
That said, I don't know how the original names sound if you actually understand Japanese. It might be that for a fluent Japanese speaker the original names sound just as silly as Baron Egg or an island called Elephant does to me. It might be that translating every name into the English equivalent captures Oda's intent better, in which case I suppose I just prefer the less accurate way of translating names.
It is a personal preference thing, absolutely. I wasn't expecting rapturous agreement to my ideas (as nice as it would have been )
My preference is a smooth reading experience. When a joke has to be explained in a translator's note, to my mind, it ceases to be a joke. It's just the assurance there was a joke there once. It's basically saying, 'for a full reading experience come back when you speak Japanese.' And I feel the point of translating a work is to craft an equivalent reading experience in the new language, for people who don't speak the original. I'm not here to learn Japanese, I'm here for a rollicking pirate adventure with ridiculous characters and bad puns.
But also, I think a translation has to work case by case. Saldeath's a great example, because the core joke of it sounding like "I'm a monkey" in Japanese is basically impossible to replicate. And with the main character's name already being the English word monkey (plus Mashira from Jaya adding another character who's name could be translated into monkey) you risk confusing readers with the similar names. Plus Saldeath is a neat sounding and totally fitting name for a jailer to English speaking ears. I think he's a case where you're better adapting the joke than the name. I think Funimation wrote some different comical ways for Luffy to mishear his name instead.
! Saldeath: I am Saldeath!
Luffy:There are plenty of names that work best in the original Japanese even though they have extra meanings we aren't getting (lots of major ones like Nami, Usopp, Sanji and his siblings, Kuro and Kuma for a few examples), but I singled out the ones that are entirely of the 'literal name joke' variety, because they have little going for them besides that, and lose out enormously if they're not fully understood.
Names are delicate and should be handled case by case. Translation should be a creative job, adapting instead of transcribing and engineering a new reading experience instead of blindly changing words between languages. The tone and author intent of the whole work should be taken into account.
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I found Tamago's archnemesis!
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It is a personal preference thing, absolutely. I wasn't expecting rapturous agreement to my ideas (as nice as it would have been )
My preference is a smooth reading experience. When a joke has to be explained in a translator's note, to my mind, it ceases to be a joke. It's just the assurance there was a joke there once. It's basically saying, 'for a full reading experience come back when you speak Japanese.' And I feel the point of translating a work is to craft an equivalent reading experience in the new language, for people who don't speak the original. I'm not here to learn Japanese, I'm here for a rollicking pirate adventure with ridiculous characters and bad puns.
But also, I think a translation has to work case by case. Saldeath's a great example, because the core joke of it sounding like "I'm a monkey" in Japanese is basically impossible to replicate. And with the main character's name already being the English word monkey (plus Mashira from Jaya adding another character who's name could be translated into monkey) you risk confusing readers with the similar names. Plus Saldeath is a neat sounding and totally fitting name for a jailer to English speaking ears. I think he's a case where you're better adapting the joke than the name. I think Funimation wrote some different comical ways for Luffy to mishear his name instead.
! Saldeath: I am Saldeath!
Luffy: [qimg]https://frinkiac.com/meme/S15E01/99016.jpg?b64lines=RGVhdGg_IFdlCmRvbid0IHdhbnQgYW55Lg==[/qimg]There are plenty of names that work best in the original Japanese even though they have extra meanings we aren't getting (lots of major ones like Nami, Usopp, Sanji and his siblings, Kuro and Kuma for a few examples), but I singled out the ones that are entirely of the 'literal name joke' variety, because they have little going for them besides that, and lose out enormously if they're not fully understood.
Names are delicate and should be handled case by case. Translation should be a creative job, adapting instead of transcribing and engineering a new reading experience instead of blindly changing words between languages. The tone and author intent of the whole work should be taken into account.
Those are completely unavoidable things due to the translation being a translation. There is no ideal solution so there is no really need to discuss about it in my opinion.
Also manga readers prefer to have japanese names for whatever reasons. -
@Kaido:
Actually I thought that was the funniest part of the chapter, with Pedro not being dumb and actually taking preventative action before Tamago evolved. It's a nice break from usual shonen conventions.
I do agree to this much, Pedro's practical attitude was great and Tamago's evolutions are a fun detail. However, their confrontation in this chapter felt hastily displayed, a sequence of snapshots almost. "Here this is me slashing you again, here I threaten your subordinates with explosives, hahaha watch them cower who could be afraid of explosions this is still One Piece, and here my friends smuggle me unnoticed through the mirror because no-one on this island has ever heard of Brulee's powers". Feels a little too easy for my taste, Pedro must barely be breaking a sweat.
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I think Brook may have got the Poneglyph rubbing and hid it in his most sacred hiding place. In his skull with the dial of "Bink's Sake." I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't the case, but I feel like that is the one place no one would think to look. Hence there was nothing in his clothes, leaving the discovery later to be a surprise.
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I do agree to this much, Pedro's practical attitude was great and Tamago's evolutions are a fun detail. However, their confrontation in this chapter felt hastily displayed, a sequence of snapshots almost. "Here this is me slashing you again, here I threaten your subordinates with explosives, hahaha watch them cower who could be afraid of explosions this is still One Piece, and here my friends smuggle me unnoticed through the mirror because no-one on this island has ever heard of Brulee's powers". Feels a little too easy for my taste, Pedro must barely be breaking a sweat.
Yeah, except Brulee is on their side, and common soldiers shouldn't (and don't) know the details about their power. You saying they should be able to imagine that Brulee herself rescues Pedro from a random mirror? For whatever reason?
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@Tom:
This probably comes down to personal preference, but I actually much prefer using the original name whenever possible, and then explaining any jokes in a TL note. The translations to my native language tried their best to translate literally everything, even if only to make a single joke work. Then you'd be stuck with a silly name for a character whenever they're referenced in future. For example the Impel Down Guard Saldeath (Sarudesu) was translated as something like M. onkey so that the joke could be understood. The problem is that in my native language it sounds really stupid and the name was for a character whose name was still referenced later. In a similar fashion, Baron Egg and Count Chicken sound a bit silly to me.
That said, I don't know how the original names sound if you actually understand Japanese. It might be that for a fluent Japanese speaker the original names sound just as silly as Baron Egg or an island called Elephant does to me. It might be that translating every name into the English equivalent captures Oda's intent better, in which case I suppose I just prefer the less accurate way of translating names.
You should consider, though, that those names are silly/stupid. When a japanese reader reads Tamago, they thing "wtf, he is called egg? what a stupid name", just like Gohan has a really stupid name because he is literally called rice (or Ryce, since it sounds the same but is written differently). Those are not supposed to sound like cool real names, but stupid ones with people being named after things and food, and that's lost when they are left untranslated.
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Those are completely unavoidable things due to the translation being a translation. There is no ideal solution so there is no really need to discuss about it in my opinion.
Also manga readers prefer to have japanese names for whatever reasons.also,with japanese having 3 alphabets and one of them can write the same chain of sounds in many different ways to mean completely different things , it's not easy to translate
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The question becomes, is the egg fruit the egg zoan or the chicken paramecia or the yolk logia?
And what is baron tamago in relationship with the other two, who is the "real" one, or the one who ate the fruit, and how does the yolk has both eyes? And how do they know how the fruit works?
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The question becomes, is the egg fruit the egg zoan or the chicken paramecia or the yolk logia?
And what is baron tamago in relationship with the other two, who is the "real" one, or the one who ate the fruit, and how does the yolk has both eyes? And how do they know how the fruit works?
i assume after a while he reverts to the base form of baron tamago
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The question becomes, is the egg fruit the egg zoan or the chicken paramecia or the yolk logia?
And what is baron tamago in relationship with the other two, who is the "real" one, or the one who ate the fruit, and how does the yolk has both eyes? And how do they know how the fruit works?
My brain is crumbling under the weight of those questions right now.
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@.access:
You should consider, though, that those names are silly/stupid. When a japanese reader reads Tamago, they thing "wtf, he is called egg?
Not necessarily. It might be normal in their culture. For example, Thai people have names that are literally random words in Thai, such as Sky, Rain, Crab, Chicken, Pig. And yes, even Egg is not an uncommon name.
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Chapter didn't really scratch that itch, but I'm glad we're back to the regular schedule. I kinda fail to see the meaning of Luffy sitting on that same spot on the road, since nothing stopped him from looking up Sanji on his own. It would have been one thing if he had been sitting there the entire arc waiting, but now it just feels like it's a piece of pointless symbolism. But for what it's worth I guess this chapter worked well for the plotprogression. But the whole dialogue between Big Mom and Pudding felt superredundant and needlessly expositional. It really bothers me when two people talk about something both of them already know for the sake of informing the audience.
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@.access:
You should consider, though, that those names are silly/stupid. When a japanese reader reads Tamago, they thing "wtf, he is called egg? what a stupid name", just like Gohan has a really stupid name because he is literally called rice (or Ryce, since it sounds the same but is written differently). Those are not supposed to sound like cool real names, but stupid ones with people being named after things and food, and that's lost when they are left untranslated.
I did consider it, though. Right in the post you quoted.
@Tom:…
That said, I don't know how the original names sound if you actually understand Japanese. It might be that for a fluent Japanese speaker the original names sound just as silly as Baron Egg or an island called Elephant does to me. It might be that translating every name into the English equivalent captures Oda's intent better, in which case I suppose I just prefer the less accurate way of translating names.
I don't speak Japanese so I have no idea what the name Tamago feels like as a name. It might be just as silly as the name Egg in English. There's also the possibility that because of the differences in the two languages, Tamago sounds better than Egg in English. That's just speculation though, and Tamago might be a really silly name in Japanese.
But yeah like I said already, in that case I guess I just prefer the less accurate translation.
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Chapter didn't really scratch that itch, but I'm glad we're back to the regular schedule. I kinda fail to see the meaning of Luffy sitting on that same spot on the road, since nothing stopped him from looking up Sanji on his own. It would have been one thing if he had been sitting there the entire arc waiting, but now it just feels like it's a piece of pointless symbolism. But for what it's worth I guess this chapter worked well for the plotprogression. But the whole dialogue between Big Mom and Pudding felt superredundant and needlessly expositional. It really bothers me when two people talk about something both of them already know for the sake of informing the audience.
except the entire big mom crew,yonko included?
he was lucky that he wasn'0t immediately recaptured, going away from the lion's den it's actually the smartest thing luffy has done in ages,even if done out of pure stubborness -
Those are completely unavoidable things due to the translation being a translation. There is no ideal solution so there is no really need to discuss about it in my opinion.
Also manga readers prefer to have japanese names for whatever reasons.The open-endedness of this kinda talk is why I like discussing it. Everyone's going to have a different opinion, unlike idle speculation, most which will eventually be utterly disproved, opinions stay relevant. I fear a lot of people are going to take a hard-line 'accuracy is everything' kind of stance though. Some readers seem want purity even at the cost of readability.
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i assume after a while he reverts to the base form of baron tamago
Then he must have the chicken or the egg fruit :-)
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When Tamago first ate his Devil Fruit, did he first turn into a chicken or an egg?
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Personally I prefer the names untranslated precisely because it hides the joke. I like my wordplay to be obscure so, for example, I much preferred mink names like Wanda the dog and Tristan the squirrel over Carrot the bunny.
Speaking of Carrot, I'm pleased with her art. I was sincerely hoping for good art in a totally different or unusual style.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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I liked that chapter. Tamago's fruit is cool. Carrot's Shojo drawing style was hilarious. I just expected her to be as bad at drawing as Luffy, but this is better. I felt a bit suspicious toward Pudding. I do think this is her real personality, but I'm thinking she's double-crossing Big Mom.
And maybe I just imagined it, but the art seemed especially good this week.
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People were complaining about Sanji's getting his shit together from last chapter and now they complain about Sanji not getting his shit together in this chapter.
Wooo.
But Sanji didn't get his shit together last week, he only found out what was really going on behind the scenes. He hasn't made any moves to do anything except sulk for really the entire time he has left the Sunny. I might be in the minority but I am kind of getting tired of seeing him just mope chapter after chapter. You want to get married to save your friend FINE, do it. If you don't want to marry the woman and rebel against Big Mom, FINE. Just do SOMETHING DAMN. I HATE indecisiveness, anything is better than nothing. It is a good thing Zoro isn't there because this arc would of been wrapped up so quick. I'm not saying they would of killed everyone but his voice of reason would of certainly moved things along.
Although Luffy is the captain he isn't a good captain yet, he leads with emotions with very little logic. When you have other peoples lives in your hands you have to lead with very little emotions and more logic. If they do have a second time skip, which seems more and more likely. I'm sure he will learn that lesson.
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But Sanji didn't get his shit together last week, he only found out what was really going on behind the scenes. He hasn't made any moves to do anything except sulk for really the entire time he has left the Sunny. I might be in the minority but I am kind of getting tired of seeing him just mope chapter after chapter. You want to get married to save your friend FINE, do it. If you don't want to marry the woman and rebel against Big Mom, FINE. Just do SOMETHING DAMN. I HATE indecisiveness, anything is better than nothing. It is a good thing Zoro isn't there because this arc would of been wrapped up so quick. I'm not saying they would of killed everyone but his voice of reason would of certainly moved things along.
Although Luffy is the captain he isn't a good captain yet, he leads with emotions with very little logic. When you have other peoples lives in your hands you have to lead with very little emotions and more logic. If they do have a second time skip, which seems more and more likely. I'm sure he will learn that lesson.
but he has to think of a plan,or at least weight the consequences,there's a lot at stake and a lot of actors in the scenario..and he basically JUST heard the entire truth.
I think people are expecting a bit too much from sanji,at least if you want him to react in a somewhat logical way…of course he might just have an entire elaborate plan one chapter after he knows the entire picture,but that would be kind of unrealistic,no matter how sharp sanji is.
until now he literally couldn't move, since every move was some kind of checkmate..either zeff dies,nami and luffy die,his hands blown off...it was a no win situation,it made sense for him to just go along with the flow and hope for the best,he didn't have much choice.
he now has choices, but for like what,10 minutes?
let the man asses the situation first,especially since he doesn't wanna go with the "who cares about reiju" path and he still worries about zeff (which is understandable,it's not like he can just go and check him onstatly,so if he just rebels now, in the back of his head he will always have the fear that in the end big mom decided to get her revenge on him, sinc the whole plan still needs sanji to work, if there's no groom,the vinsmokes have no reason to partecipate at the wedding.of course there's the question why she needs them to be at the wedding in the first place since,as puddinng said,the entire country is already trapped in big mom's territory, but i guess they want to take them down easy without much of a fight using surprise.
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So, is Big Mom going to lock up Brook right now in the books or she'll keep to "cuddle" him? If she's going to the floor below to imprisoning him in her collection of weird creatures she'll found out Luffy, Nami and Jinbe have escaped and rebelled, and the "unthinkable" might happen, too early before the Tea Party. That makes me wonder how is Smoothie going to hide all of that chaos from her mama till the next day.
Sanji is still insecure for the Baratie, but when he'll know Luffy is starving for hours without eating and many battles, then, whatever the consequences, he'll go to save his captain still without a clear idea about his future actions, and only then, as Brooke said, between Sanji and Luffy, not Nami Chopper or anyone else, will the matter be settled and Sanji will make up his mind about what he should do. The question is when will this happen? Who's going to tell Sanji about Luffy's conditions? Right now or during the Tea Party, when Luffy will have waited outside for many other hours and he'll be on the verge of serious starving? In the latter case Sanji's decision would feel more touching in my opinion.
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Why in the world did she make the SH look so girly in her drawing style. I think I like the samurai's drawing style better. LOL. Luffy looks like a damn woman.
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except the entire big mom crew,yonko included?
he was lucky that he wasn'0t immediately recaptured, going away from the lion's den it's actually the smartest thing luffy has done in ages,even if done out of pure stubbornessAlso, Luffy has no reason to think that Sanji won't come to their meeting spot. Maybe that's a bit optimistic but that's the way Luffy is. And honestly speaking, Sanji is being an idiot if he doesn't just meet up with Luffy and sort this thing with him.
It's pretty hard to believe that Sanji is so out of touch with his captain's personality, after witnessing his stubborness so many times already. Anyone in the crew should know that there's no way Luffy would just accept one of them leaving without a proper explanation. They should know that Luffy won't care what kind of opponent he needs to face to get his friends back.
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but he has to think of a plan,or at least weight the consequences,there's a lot at stake and a lot of actors in the scenario..and he basically JUST heard the entire truth.
I think people are expecting a bit too much from sanji,at least if you want him to react in a somewhat logical way…of course he might just have an entire elaborate plan one chapter after he knows the entire picture,but that would be kind of unrealistic,no matter how sharp sanji is.
until now he literally couldn't move, since every move was some kind of checkmate..either zeff dies,nami and luffy die,his hands blown off...it was a no win situation,it made sense for him to just go along with the flow and hope for the best,he didn't have much choice.
he now has choices, but for like what,10 minutes?let the man asses the situation first,especially since he doesn't wanna go with the "who cares about reiju" path and he still worries about zeff (which is understandable,it's not like he can just go and check him onstatly,so if he just rebels now, in the back of his head he will always have the fear that in the end big mom decided to get her revenge on him, sinc the whole plan still needs sanji to work, if there's no groom,the vinsmokes have no reason to partecipate at the wedding.
of course there's the question why she needs them to be at the wedding in the first place since,as puddinng said,the entire country is already trapped in big mom's territory, but i guess they want to take them down easy without much of a fight using surprise.
If you need to think why not wait in Reiju's room then, she is pretty level headed brainstorm with her. You aren't asking her to go against Judge just come up with a plan. I feel like him leaving her room was basically done to prolong the arc, and make it fit that Luffy was going to wait for Sanji where he said. Luffy doesn't always have to have things he say workout perfectly, circumstances come up and plans change. I was going to meet Sanji at this spot I got captured, escaped and bumped into Sanji in Reiju's room.
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@Kaido:
Luffy knew what he was doing when he left Nami with Jinbe. Plus it was very implicit since Zou that such a mission to Whole Cake Island would be fraught with peril.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Actually I thought that was the funniest part of the chapter, with Pedro not being dumb and actually taking preventative action before Tamago evolved. It's a nice break from usual shonen conventions.
Haha yeah. That was great.
Tamago was like "I'm gonna do this standard villian routine. I'm transforming to my uber form and own the hell out of you!"
And Pedro was chill like "The fuck you are, here are some explosives. K? Bye."
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If you need to think why not wait in Reiju's room then, she is pretty level headed brainstorm with her. You aren't asking her to go against Judge just come up with a plan. I feel like him leaving her room was basically done to prolong the arc, and make it fit that Luffy was going to wait for Sanji where he said. Luffy doesn't always have to have things he say workout perfectly, circumstances come up and plans change. I was going to meet Sanji at this spot I got captured, escaped and bumped into Sanji in Reiju's room.
because reiju doesn't want to brainstorm with him,reiju wants herself and the vinsmokes to die,and sanji would never accept a plan that includes that, so it was no sue staying there talking with her. the reason why sanji hasn't already acted it's exactly because reiju's plan doesn't satisfy him,leaving zeff's safety to chance and letting her die are not something he would do.
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except the entire big mom crew,yonko included?
he was lucky that he wasn'0t immediately recaptured, going away from the lion's den it's actually the smartest thing luffy has done in ages,even if done out of pure stubbornessOkay yeah, you're right. But Luffy didn't go to that meeting place to avoid Big Mom's crew. He went there because he felt it had a meaning, which is sort of lost on me, because Luffy only spent one or two chapter on that spot. Would have been one thing if there had been a longer buildup and we got a sense of meaning for that location in itself. It's a storytelling structure issue for me.
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Poor Brook, Big Mom's going to start calling him George soon.
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Okay yeah, you're right. But Luffy didn't go to that meeting place to avoid Big Mom's crew. He went there because he felt it had a meaning, which is sort of lost on me, because Luffy only spent one or two chapter on that spot. Would have been one thing if there had been a longer buildup and we got a sense of meaning for that location in itself. It's a storytelling structure issue for me.
That was the spot where Sanji acted like he had disowned the crew and attacked Luffy.
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@Kaido:
That was the spot where Sanji acted like he had disowned the crew and attacked Luffy.
I get it, but I feel like it hasn't been written into the story as a location of significance. We haven't had enough reminders in the story that makes it seem like it matters. So it seems like it just comes from out of nowhere. It would have been one thing if Sanji had like a thought bubble about it a few chapters ago, or if we got some visual callbacks to the place once in a while so that we remember it's importance. Cause right now, it doesn't feel like it has been properly established.
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@Kaido:
That was the spot where Sanji acted like he had disowned the crew and attacked Luffy.
And the place where King baum was killed!
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I get it, but I feel like it hasn't been written into the story as a location of significance. We haven't had enough reminders in the story that makes it seem like it matters. So it seems like it just comes from out of nowhere. It would have been one thing if Sanji had like a thought bubble about it a few chapters ago, or if we got some visual callbacks to the place once in a while so that we remember it's importance. Cause right now, it doesn't feel like it has been properly established.
Luffy's battle against Sanji and the Enraged Army made it significant enough for me. Don't worry, I'm sure we'll get plenty of callbacks and extensions of the field in the anime. Plus Luffy was trying to get out of the storybook prison to get back to that spot.
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The VOATS for Pudding was totally unexpected, what is the endgame for her?
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Why is King Baum good? He is a tree.
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The VOATS for Pudding was totally unexpected, what is the endgame for her?
I don't think it is VOATS. I believe her third eye can read anything.
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Why is King Baum good? He is a tree.
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I don't think it is VOATS. I believe her third eye can read anything.
But Big Mom said that she got someone that will develop that same power, not similar.
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So that's why Pudding was so important. If she awakens that power, Big Mom can make her move to find Raftel…interesting..
If Pudding awakens the power of the Three-eyed tribe, then she should 'see' something such as will, messages, time of creation, intentions or auras.
I want Van Auger to be of the tribe!! More hype to his Vs against Usopp.
I wonder if Count Chicken is his final form, or does he have 1 more, King Cock :happy:
Emperor Rooster!!
This Zoan remind me of Jojo's DIU, Koichi and his stand precisely.Great chapter.
Pudding's comment is reflected on what Lin Lin asked her to do in front of Strawhats, i guess. She must had other kind of resolution about this.
Brook is ready to leave! I agree with you all about his head.
Napoleon's possible unique ability must be related to my theory on the network.
Those drawings!! quite shoujo-styled, rolf.The quality of soul concept enters this chapter, i hope more development on that.
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Why is King Baum good? He is a tree.
How dare you discriminate against trees. Luffy tried to invite one to his crew on Thriller Bark.
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What does VOATS stand for? If it's Voice of All Things, shouldn't it just be VOAT?
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Yeah, except Brulee is on their side, and common soldiers shouldn't (and don't) know the details about their power. You saying they should be able to imagine that Brulee herself rescues Pedro from a random mirror? For whatever reason?
Not the common soldiers, no. But Brulee's been MIA for over a day now and Cracker, who was sent to back her up, came crashing right through the castle gates. And her homie sidekick King Baum was encountered and disposed of by the Enraged Army. At some point, someone among the Charlotte siblings is bound to ask questions and start looking fishy at mirrors ; info would trickle down the command chain. Here in the Pedro scene, Tamago at least could have heard something and have doubts, be wary about possible escape routes for his enemy. But no, apparently the mirror world is going to be this huge blind spot in Big Mom's defenses that the Straw Hats are allowed to take advantage of because the plot says so. That's a little too easy for my taste, in the perfect continuity of previous mirror world shenanigans.