Criticizing One Piece

Ruin

yeah, but compare how the fanbase feels about Jora or Machvise to how they feel about Baby 5 or the near roaring reverence they have for Senor Pink
it's pretty obvious in the Doffy family in regards to who's willing and loving this shit compared to the people who are broken and used
plus one of the overall themes in one piece is how your background doesn't define who you are as a person, you can come from shit and build yourself up into a bigger piece of shit, you can come from gold and be a huge piece of shit, and so on and so forth

Baby 5 was brought in for literally no other reason than to be used as a tool. no one in the family gave a damn about her issues or her wellbeing beyond being a convenient piece o' meat to throw at problems. Even Senor Pink was ready and willing, regardless of how tragic and broken he was. but Baby 5, due to her situation, had no choice.

Thebomer93

Am little fed up with the way the marines are made to look really weak arc after arc.

Daz

Baby 5 is a really weird case, because on the one hand the Doflamingo family is pretty clearly portrayed as having more cameraderie than usually; when he asks Monet to blow up Punk Hazard Doflamingoseems to be actually sad about it, he hesitates when Law takes Jora hostage, gets Baby five out of trouble in the flashback…its a far cry from how he treats an outsider like Bellamy.

But then suddenly it turns out that Baby 5 was just a disposable pawn no one gives a shit about, at the last minute I guess? Which is why she gets completely absolved of consequences, to the point where she even shows up on the "Yeah, fuck the Doflamingo family! spread.

Also her quirk itself is just aggravating; she's a super sexy french maid who will do absolutely anything you ask wink wink, including instantly agreeing to marry gross old men, so funny!! It being contextualized later doesn't change the punchline she was earlier, and ultimately the resolution to her neuroses is not to think for herself or find worth in herself independent of others, or even to think some people are more worthy of service than others. Its just that the last man she submits to happens to be nicer. And its not framed as if Sai accepts the heavy burden of taking responsibility for someone with a severe personality disorder, its framed as "Lao G: Lost, Baby 5: Lost in love"

wolfwood

@Thebomer93:

Am little fed up with the way the marines are made to look really weak arc after arc.

Purple guy says hello

Daz

@sggupta:

where in that panel do you get that she doesn't want to endure and survive,that she wants to help?all she's saying is that she is tired of being surrounded by despair.
"if clinging to a dream that will never come true is my only other option,then i'd rather bet on the opportunity of the tourney".
only thing i can take away from this page is desperation,having no other option but to enter the tournament or else eveyone dies(including herself).
though i do think she said something like wanting to help and not just being protected anymore,i'm just saying it's not this page

She says that she's not satisfied waiting, that she's going to take the chance. She isn't resigned to just passively keeping up business as usual in the Coliseum, she actively wants to take action, to do something.

The Franky Tank

Daz explained pretty well the Baby 5 situation and how the end didn't sit well for me.

For the Rebecca part, I see it that she is getting tired and feels like she should contribute towards something with the fight for the country that is coming up. In the end though she is still not someone who really wants to fight, and then with who she is her style is not the greatest outside of the coliseum. Though I will admit, the only thing that makes this weird is how after the Diamante fight she was actively looking for Doflamingo with her sword, with the intent to actually fight him. It would've been better if she was running around trying to help people and happen across him and have the scene happen, rather than have her try to take down someone who is even more out of her league compared to Diamante.

Bigivel

@Daz:

Baby 5 is a really weird case, because on the one hand the Doflamingo family is pretty clearly portrayed as having more cameraderie than usually; when he asks Monet to blow up Punk Hazard Doflamingoseems to be actually sad about it, he hesitates when Law takes Jora hostage, gets Baby five out of trouble in the flashback…its a far cry from how he treats an outsider like Bellamy.

But then suddenly it turns out that Baby 5 was just a disposable pawn no one gives a shit about, at the last minute I guess? Which is why she gets completely absolved of consequences, to the point where she even shows up on the "Yeah, fuck the Doflamingo family! spread.

Also her quirk itself is just aggravating; she's a super sexy french maid who will do absolutely anything you ask wink wink, including instantly agreeing to marry gross old men, so funny!! It being contextualized later doesn't change the punchline she was earlier, and ultimately the resolution to her neuroses is not to think for herself or find worth in herself independent of others, or even to think some people are more worthy of service than others. Its just that the last man she submits to happens to be nicer. And its not framed as if Sai accepts the heavy burden of taking responsibility for someone with a severe personality disorder, its framed as "Lao G: Lost, Baby 5: Lost in love"

That was only one thing that Lao G said, and his opinion. Taking it to be Doflamingo and the others members of the family opinion and reason for her is the wrong way to see it. Specially when we were shown to Law and Doflamingo Flashback and we know very well how Doflamingo seen the kids and why he allowed them to be with him as a family.

This is like totally deforming the opinion of a particular person and/or a group of people just because of a comment of one of the members. And not even a influential one in the group.

"She's a super sexy french maid who will do absolutely anything you ask wink wink", where was ever shown or depicted that to be her stick?

"It being contextualized later doesn't change the punchline she was earlier", yep that punchline that was trying to murder Doflamingo and that got shot point-blank. That also doesn't change Senor Pink, nor any other fictional character where later Flashback that further explains the reason for this character weird actions.

"The resolution to her neuroses" who said and where it was ever presented this was Baby 5 "resolution to her neuroses"?

"The last man she submits", the submissive woman card. So where was shown any submission? The opposite was shown she imposed on him.

KageKageKing

Complaining about Sabo is the same as complaining about Koala, because she also had no reason to come back. As if there is any other character outside of Dragon that can link the Straw Hats to the Revolutionaries. Heck, even Dragon can't do that well besides being the MC's biological father.

Ruin

jokes that are contextualized into something tragic or uncomfortable is basically almost any given one piece character with a modicum of depth

John Doe

Shu, the marine guy who destroyed Zoro's sword. He's the most ass-pulled character of this manga. Oda wanted to give Zoro a cool sword with the following arc so he decided to create the sabi sabi no mi. He never appeared after…

Zar

@The:

Daz explained pretty well the Baby 5 situation and how the end didn't sit well for me.

For the Rebecca part, I see it that she is getting tired and feels like she should contribute towards something with the fight for the country that is coming up. In the end though she is still not someone who really wants to fight, and then with who she is her style is not the greatest outside of the coliseum. Though I will admit, the only thing that makes this weird is how after the Diamante fight she was actively looking for Doflamingo with her sword, with the intent to actually fight him. It would've been better if she was running around trying to help people and happen across him and have the scene happen, rather than have her try to take down someone who is even more out of her league compared to Diamante.

You know, that's an interesting alternative take on Rebecca

Instead of having her so focused on defeating Doffy and winning the Mera Mera fruit, it would've been better if she tried to help her people. No matter how much they hated her, no matter how much they'd boo her and humiliate her, she would always do her best to help them when she could. That's also a way of fighting Doffy, by showing everyone around her that the last heir of the Royal family was much kinder than Doflamingo.

Wintermute

@John:

Shu, the marine guy who destroyed Zoro's sword. He's the most ass-pulled character of this manga. Oda wanted to give Zoro a cool sword with the following arc so he decided to create the sabi sabi no mi. He never appeared after…

First time ever I read that a minor character is the biggest asspull in a manga. It certainly doesn't felt like an asspull because of the big OP world and proper worldbuilding, which made it believable.

And if you consider all the convinient characters that happened to help Luffy in Amazon Lily, Impel Down and Marineford, I think your statement doesn't hold up.

sggupta

@Daz:

Baby 5 is a really weird case, because on the one hand the Doflamingo family is pretty clearly portrayed as having more cameraderie than usually; when he asks Monet to blow up Punk Hazard Doflamingoseems to be actually sad about it, he hesitates when Law takes Jora hostage, gets Baby five out of trouble in the flashback…its a far cry from how he treats an outsider like Bellamy.

But then suddenly it turns out that Baby 5 was just a disposable pawn no one gives a shit about, at the last minute I guess?

i personally see it as both.there's no doubt that doflamingo family manipulated her and made use of her,but also i really doubt doflamingo had no feelings for her.if he didn't i don't see why he would bother to kill everyone taking advantage of her.and no,it wouldn't be because she's useful to them.if she's so valuable to them,then why not just forbid her from going outside?
there's no denying he sort of makes use of her,but i don't think she's just a pawn to him.
it is also possible not all family members have the same thought process,and lao-g is just being an ass or just stating her role and abilities like it is.

Which is why she gets completely absolved of consequences, to the point where she even shows up on the "Yeah, fuck the Doflamingo family! spread.

it's true that she sort of just gets away with it,though i guess it is presented because of her abuse

Also her quirk itself is just aggravating; she's a super sexy french maid who will do absolutely anything you ask wink wink, including instantly agreeing to marry gross old men, so funny!! It being contextualized later doesn't change the punchline she was earlier, and ultimately the resolution to her neuroses is not to think for herself or find worth in herself independent of others, or even to think some people are more worthy of service than others. Its just that the last man she submits to happens to be nicer. And its not framed as if Sai accepts the heavy burden of taking responsibility for someone with a severe personality disorder, its framed as "Lao G: Lost, Baby 5: Lost in love"

but it's framed exactly like that.after Lao-G goes on about her usefulness to sai,he says in that case,i'll marry her.
and no one says her resolution is just getting married?for her to think for herself,she has to be in an environment where she can.ultimately,it's not like sai knows her very well,or is a seasoned psychologist trained in trauma and that was the only thing he could do.it's not like he did it because he was attracted to her.

@Daz:

She says that she's not satisfied waiting, that she's going to take the chance. She isn't resigned to just passively keeping up business as usual in the Coliseum, she actively wants to take action, to do something.

again,not what she's saying in that page at all.
"No,I Won't wait!we've been plunged from heaven straight into hell!Everyone's had enough!their spirits are broken!
Win a thousand battles and we can be free?That's not hope at all!It's a Giant Wall of despair"
the everyone part implied she was concerned about the others,and they were probably on death's verge.and it seems that she is not able to see any other option for her and the prisoner's sake

Daz

@Bigivel:

That was only one thing that Lao G said, and his opinion. Taking it to be Doflamingo and the others members of the family opinion and reason for her is the wrong way to see it. Specially when we were shown to Law and Doflamingo Flashback and we know very well how Doflamingo seen the kids and why he allowed them to be with him as a family.

This is like totally deforming the opinion of a particular person and/or a group of people just because of a comment of one of the members. And not even a influential one in the group.

It is only Lao G who speaks on the matter yes, but since his one line is the beginning and ending of the matter its not really made clear if its a general family viewpoint (supported by Odas SBS comments of Doflamingo using broken people to his advantage, further muddling the Doflamingo family characterization) or a Lao G specific viewpoint. Aside from Lao Gs words the most we get of a reaction to Baby 5 afterwards is Pica going "you betrayed us, huh" and trying to kill her, so its hard to tell if they saw her as a tool or not. Ots just the final note we're left with before she ditches the family and never looks back.

@Bigivel:

"She's a super sexy french maid who will do absolutely anything you ask wink wink", where was ever shown or depicted that to be her stick?

Obviously a manga aimed at young boys isn't going to directly say that people could just ask Baby 5 to fuck and she'd say yes (though she does seem custom made for hentai artists). But her character is still a standard issue Oda bombshell of legs, boobs and a pretty face whos custom outfit is a popular fetish getup, and whos main quirk is not being able to say no what people ask. Mostly men. Including old disgusting men, and we are invited to laugh at how this sexy girl will accept literally anyone. The joke is that she's super sexy and capable- but will still do anything you want!

With everything from Hancock being lovey-dovey, to gawking at Shirahoshis boobs to Sanjis hot sister frenching Luffy to even Jora or Brulee going on about appearances, Odas female characters are almost always linked to tired, generic female attributes such as love and looks, and a hot french maid who will marry anyone isn't helping with that statistic.

@Bigivel:

"It being contextualized later doesn't change the punchline she was earlier", yep that punchline that was trying to murder Doflamingo and that got shot point-blank. That also doesn't change Senor Pink, nor any other fictional character where later Flashback that further explains the reason for this character weird actions.

Recontextualization can be a powerful thing, and recontextualizing jokes can absolutely work. Its just that the Baby 5 joke was really, really, really cringeworthy. Rereading her scenes, am I now supposed to feel sorrowful sympathy for her during the "Disgusting man literally made of snot whom nobody can stand being close to jokingly makes a pass at her and Baby 5 instantly buys into it with stars in her eyes going "do you need me?" with a little heart visual effect get it haha the sexy maid is ready to throw herself at the snot-man"-joke through the power of added context? It doesn't work like that.

@Bigivel:

"The resolution to her neuroses" who said and where it was ever presented this was Baby 5 "resolution to her neuroses"?

"The last man she submits", the submissive woman card. So where was shown any submission? The opposite was shown she imposed on him.

She overanalyzed him, Hancock -style, and arrived at the conclusion he was coming on to her. Then in the end Sai announces he will marry her, and Baby 5 instanly accepts it, just as she did with every other instantly proposing man she'd met. Just because its not directly verbalized doesn't mean that Baby 5 isn't going to approach the relationship caring to Sais every demand in an attempt to please him and feel needed, because thats her character, and theres no indication that she ever moves beyond that. We can assume that Sai won't treat her badly, and that is the ultimate resolution for Baby 5's character, her goofy, puppy-love romantic end. There is no sign that she doesn't still define herself entirely through catering to a man…its just a nicer one this time.

maxterdexter

I'd say that it was Law's opinion that matter the most, Doffy was playing family, while he "cared" for the pieces that obeyed, he was going to throw law under the bus long before his betrayal, and killed Rosinante without heraing him out.

Just like a prosperous pig farmer, he has his favorites, but even the top excecutives could be turned to bacon if it was needed.

John Doe

@Wintermute:

First time ever I read that a minor character is the biggest asspull in a manga. It certainly doesn't felt like an asspull because of the big OP world and proper worldbuilding, which made it believable.

And if you consider all the convinient characters that happened to help Luffy in Amazon Lily, Impel Down and Marineford, I think your statement doesn't hold up.

Oda wanted to give Zoro a cool sword in the following arc so he decided to create the sabi sabi no mi. The guy never appeared after… he just rusted his blade and get the fuck outta there.

Daz

@sggupta:

but it's framed exactly like that.after Lao-G goes on about her usefulness to sai,he says in that case,i'll marry her.
and no one says her resolution is just getting married?for her to think for herself,she has to be in an environment where she can.ultimately,it's not like sai knows her very well,or is a seasoned psychologist trained in trauma and that was the only thing he could do.it's not like he did it because he was attracted to her.

The first thing that happens after Sai "proposes" is that Baby 5 does a lovey-dovey facefault. Then Sai defeats Lao G, says a cool one liner like a boss, and the fight ends on that note with the text "Lao G:lost, Baby 5: Lost in love". Yes, Sai obviously proposed because he felt sorry for her, but the whole thing isn't exactly framed in a melancholy light, and next chapter has goofy jokes about wedding planning.

@sggupta:

again,not what she's saying in that page at all.
"No,I Won't wait!we've been plunged from heaven straight into hell!Everyone's had enough!their spirits are broken!
Win a thousand battles and we can be free?That's not hope at all!It's a Giant Wall of despair"
the everyone part implied she was concerned about the others,and they were probably on death's verge.and it seems that she is not able to see any other option for her and the prisoner's sake

Yeah she says those things. But why are you dead set on ignoring Rebeccas statements that she wants to take action now and take her chance in the tournament…just because she talks about her motivation for doing so? I really don't get it?

"Win a thousand battles and we can be free?That's not hope at all!It's a Giant Wall of despair"
–-> "So thats why I want to take this chance in the tournament, and take action now". And this fits perfectly with where we see Rebecca first- going for the tournament in order to go after Doflamingo.

I mean, the page I linked to ends with Soldier explicitly telling Rebecca to not do the things she wants, since she very clearly wants to do things? Thats all I've ever been trying to say, that Rebecca expressed agency, a desire to do things, and the page does show that. I'm sorry but I don't think I can make this any clearer. And since this thread is draining my sanity, and I think I'm going to bed

KageKageKing

@John:

Shu, the marine guy who destroyed Zoro's sword. He's the most ass-pulled character of this manga. Oda wanted to give Zoro a cool sword with the following arc so he decided to create the sabi sabi no mi. He never appeared after…

So what? The guy appeared in like one page so that Zoro would actually have a reason to get a new sword, making the outcome ofhis duel against Ryuma more meaningful and people wouldn't complain about the random sword change. And poor Sharinguru didn't even got to show his moves in the anime.

Wintermute

@John:

Oda wanted to give Zoro a cool sword in the following arc so he decided to create the sabi sabi no mi. The guy never appeared after… he just rusted his blade and get the fuck outta there.

Yeah, that makes Shu a plot device. Like, losing your sword the cool way.

It wouldn't even matter which sword and which arc. How is that the biggest asspull?

Steakbrine

I liked the effect of that Sabi Sabi no mi, but rusting Zoro's blade in such a minor fight and then disappear was really weird and stupid. I think it would make more sense if Kaku broke his sword as he was a powerful opponent.

Razh

Maybe it would have been more elegant if Ryuuma broke Yubashiri during his encounter with Zoro. Zoro even remarks Ryuuma is using sword breaking technique. But it's such a minor thing I haven't really thought about it until I saw it here.

Tangaroa

@Steakbrine:

I liked the effect of that Sabi Sabi no mi, but rusting Zoro's blade in such a minor fight and then disappear was really weird and stupid. I think it would make more sense if Kaku broke his sword as he was a powerful opponent.

Honestly loved that scene. Because CP9 were the badguys and the ones with weird powers just happened to be duelling the Straw Hats was wondering why the rest of the navy seemed to be made entirely of mooks. Then suddenly out of the fray Berygood(?), Shuu & Sharingen showed up and it gave me the feeling this world wasn't entirely on rails that way. It made me feel that the weird and unexpected could show up not just in shonen boss-battles.
Kaku breaking his sword would have been more dramatic, probably, but it happening this way really expanded the OP world for me.

Robby

Shu shower up again in film Z, and that massive spread with all the other marines from around the same time, and at the war. He didn't do much, but he continued to exist.

Its just a way of showing that not every marine is a complete piece of fodder, the world is a big place with lots of weird things…. and not all drama comes from a big battle, Like say, Zoro's childhood friend and rival dying suddenly for trivial stupid reasons.

DemonX

Hmmm.

Oda thinking he doesn't have to be consistent with villain's power levels. Should have thought about that before introducing Crocodile as first Shichibukai at the beginning of the Grand Line (granted, he didn't think his manga would go on for so many years at that point - I think?).
Too many ideas/people in one arc. Though he recognized this probably and will hopefully be able to control himself :D
Making Luffy actually dumb and not letting him progress even a little.
Still having the SHs act like beginners in the NW. I know he wants everything to appear like an adventure yadda yadda, but certain things could be handled better.

That's the main stuff that are irritating me, I guess.

HacheBe

@DemonX:

Hmmm.

Oda thinking he doesn't have to be consistent with villain's power levels. Should have thought about that before introducing Crocodile as first Shichibukai at the beginning of the Grand Line (granted, he didn't think his manga would go on for so many years at that point - I think?).
Too many ideas/people in one arc. Though he recognized this probably and will hopefully be able to control himself :D
Making Luffy actually dumb and not letting him progress even a little.
Still having the SHs act like beginners in the NW. I know he wants everything to appear like an adventure yadda yadda, but certain things could be handled better.

That's the main stuff that are irritating me, I guess.

You could say that all the weird power level structure (or the absence of one) makes the manga better just because you never know how a fight could go! I do have to somewhat agree on the NW thing tho. But only a little because that is just how Luffy rolls. I think it was surprising to me that Nami nor Robin really learned something about the NW so far…. They will probs say something about it in the future tho. Especially Robin.

Hapuriainen

Regarding Rebecca, her not getting a proper fight wasn't what really bothered me (the most), but rather the fact that she didn't do anything else either. Even if her story was abot how she learns that she shouldn't even dream about getting a cool DONN! worthy battle, I don't see a reason why she couldn't contribute in some other way. Like Nami gets to look cool navigating, Mocha ate all the drugged candy, Riku gave a speech that encouraged the Dressrosians not to give up, and so on. Even Mansherry managed to be useful, and her ability was crying. But when I skimmed through the Dressrosa arc I couldn't find a single event where Rebecca's conscious actions and decisions were beneficial for Luffy's side and not irrelevant or a downright burden. If Rebecca had got a flu and stayed at home during the entire arc I don't think much anything would have changed aside from some other characters missing a few moments to look cool babysitting her.

Though I don't think the need for Rebecca to remain a pacifist and keep her hands clean worked particularly well either, since like someone said earlier, taking down Diamante was presented as an awesome badass moment and not something bitter and harmful that Rebecca needed to be shielded from. When you compare her to the other peace-loving princesses I find that Shirahoshi's decision not to reveal Hody as her mother's killer worked a lot better because that represented the arc's theme of not spreading hatred. Or Vivi preventing Luffy from attacking and instead begged for help in Drum was beneficial for the Straw Hats and showed her skills at diplomacy. With Rebecca I guess Dressrosa had something of a theme with Riku's pacifist ways vs the colosseum bloodbath under Doflamingo's reign, but since the arc had so much going on that kind of disappeared under a lot of other stuff.

I found the resolution to Kyros and Rebecca's storyline heartwarming at least and the concept of the two just wanting to live together peacefully was fine, but that's solely because I care about Kyros' side of the story. Though even if I can sort of see why a parent would want to protect their child from having to dirty their hands, I don't think a action manga with some 700 chapters about how awesome pummeling your enemy into oblivion is is the best place for that story (plus I'm pretty sure that we wouldn't have got a story line like this if Kyros had a son instead).

On a completely different topic, I find that the concept of bounties has a lot of missing opportunities. Why haven't we seen a single bounty hunter worth anything? Over a half of the characters the Wiki lists as bounty hunters are filler, or aren't defined by that trait and changed profession anyway, or are non-threatening ones like Johnny and Yosaku (who also quit). I believe that a bounty hunter character could make for an interesting antagonist. Even the Marines and World Government don't seem to have any particular interest in going after the Straw Hats despite constantly raising their bounties, since a lot of the time when Luffy runs into them it's someone who chooses to let them go (Smoker, Tashigi, Aokiji, Garp, Smoker again, Sengoku, Fujitora…) The bounties start to feel more like power levels when it makes no difference for the Straw Hats whether Luffy's bounty is 300 million or 500 million, since nobody comes after their heads anyway.

wolfwood

@Hapuriainen:

On a completely different topic, I find that the concept of bounties has a lot of missing opportunities. Why haven't we seen a single bounty hunter worth anything?

We had three bounty hunters in the Dressrosa arc.

That guy who threw blades at Don and got head butted and those two sword lickers

KageKageKing

And Weevil in a certain extend.

wolfwood

@KageKageKing:

And Weevil in a certain extend.

His mother certainly is one if nothing else.

SomeRandomGuy

This post is deleted!

Kaido King of the Beasts

The Straw Hats were relentlessly attacked by bounty hunters in Sabaody. Fact is that the Straw Hats haven't been in many locations where bounty hunters would reside, or people would be interested in collecting their bounty

DemonX

@HacheBe:

You could say that all the weird power level structure (or the absence of one) makes the manga better just because you never know how a fight could go! I do have to somewhat agree on the NW thing tho. But only a little because that is just how Luffy rolls. I think it was surprising to me that Nami nor Robin really learned something about the NW so far…. They will probs say something about it in the future tho. Especially Robin.

Uhm, when it's about Luffy you can pretty much guess he'll win - in the end. And the general issue with his gears isn't making things better (his base form being nothing compared to others etc.)
And no, it doesn't make things better when the in-universe consistency is fucked up (in general, not only power levels - everything else is still okay though). Although I guess this issue wouldn't be so glaring if we'd have…better, more concentrated fights/less hoping around. The thing is, future arcs are going to be full of different actors. I really hope Oda can make it work better than Dressrosa.

And I know how Luffy rolls, but he's legit acting like freaking dumbass now.

Razh

@wolfwood:

We had three bounty hunters in the Dressrosa arc.

That guy who threw blades at Don and got head butted and those two sword lickers

Hardly worth much. Weevil's mother included.

I certainly expected some high profile bounty hunters would appear in OP at some point.

You know, someone who might threaten the likes of Shichibukai or executives, if they had a chance to face them alone.

It's not like I'm missing them, but the whole concept of ever increasing bounties is useless if there isn't anyone who can actually capture or kill a person worth 800 mil, for example. And I doubt Yonkou crew members get betrayed that much. How long would someone who turns over someone from their own crew last?

wolfwood

@Razh:

Hardly worth much. Weevil's mother included.

I certainly expected some high profile bounty hunters would appear in OP at some point.

You know, someone who might threaten the likes of Shichibukai or executives, if they had a chance to face them alone.

It's not like I'm missing them, but the whole concept of ever increasing bounties is useless if there isn't anyone who can actually capture or kill a person worth 800 mil, for example. And I doubt Yonkou crew members get betrayed that much. How long would someone who turns over someone from their own crew last?

Well the warlords are essentially bounty hunters so that would be some hunter on hunter action.

Yobiyopi

Instead of Luffy running out of haki, i think it would have been simpler to just have Doffy inflict some heavy damage on him while clashing with the Leo Bazooka. After that Luffy would have collapsed and turned back to normal, and Law would have had to heal him with his knowledge on medicine and Doflamingo's powers. All of this would have put more emphasis on their relationship and team effort to take Doffy down, while also not providing the stupid explanation we have to deal with

Ruijerd

@hosemisnuba:

How dare you criticize One Piece. One Piece is the most perfectest piece of fiction everer. You has no right to be member of forum if disagree otherwise.

"How dare you criticize my criticism", this is such an obvious deflection.

HacheBe

@DemonX:

Uhm, when it's about Luffy you can pretty much guess he'll win - in the end. And the general issue with his gears isn't making things better (his base form being nothing compared to others etc.)
And no, it doesn't make things better when the in-universe consistency is fucked up (in general, not only power levels - everything else is still okay though). Although I guess this issue wouldn't be so glaring if we'd have…better, more concentrated fights/less hoping around. The thing is, future arcs are going to be full of different actors. I really hope Oda can make it work better than Dressrosa.

And I know how Luffy rolls, but he's legit acting like freaking dumbass now.

Well i mean that man is the main character. But things like Luffy vs Enel are able to happen because of the power level structure. It just means almost anyone is vulnerable if you find their weakness. It also helps to show character development. I know some people complain but I love how Luffy continually beats someone when it looks like there is no hope. I mean re reading some old arcs it reminds me how much of a gap there seemed to be between Luffy and the big bad guy at the beginning and how seemingly obvious it was at the end that Luffy was the stronger one. it happened in Alaasta, Skypea, Enies Lobby. Even now we are all doubting Luffy because of the fight with cracker but there have been countless other times this has happened in the manga. Oda sets it up like this all the time and looking back you can really appreciate it. It makes it that much more dramatic and awesome.

While it does make things really complicated because later in the story Croc is shown to be a semi big shot and Luffy already beat him but Oda somehow makes it all make sense. Obviously the people in the world of One Piece don't see it as much as the readers do. Didn't Oda say that Enel would be around 500 mil if he was from the Blue sea or whatever? Just because of luck Luffy was able to beat a guy that on land would be feared by many and he did it in base form!! That is what makes me appreciate it so much more. Not to mention i sorta enjoy power level discussions when the other person isn't a complete idiot

This is just a personal opinion though so agree to disagree!

Ruin

@Ruijerd:

"How dare you criticize my criticism", this is such an obvious deflection.

i think the word you're looking for is sarcasm

hosemisnuba

This post is deleted!

Black Leg

I always thought that instead of Luffy just running out of haki after using gear 4th and having to take a 5 minute break it would have been way cooler if Luffy's skin became really loose and saggy and he became a useless old man for time. That way there's a neat little parallel to gear 3rd and it doesn't feel like such an artificial handicap slapped on Luffy.

sggupta

@Black:

I always thought that instead of Luffy just running out of haki after using gear 4th and having to take a 5 minute break it would have been way cooler if Luffy's skin became really loose and saggy and he became a useless old man for time. That way there's a neat little parallel to gear 3rd and it doesn't feel like such an artificial handicap slapped on Luffy.

LOL,that's a pretty cool idea!
but hey,there's always next time.now that i've heard about this,i really want it to happen in the manga!
but speaking of haki overload,i don't really see the problem with it.
people in OP can only take a certain amount of damage.
people in OP can only have so much stamina.
i mean,as we know both gear 2 and gear 3 had limitations,gear 2 one's based on stamina and endurance,and gear 3's based on control of his DF abilitlies?
and we have also seen DF's also have limits to their ability,especially with law.
as a natural extension,haki too has a limit.i mean,even your spirit/will is gonna have an exhastion point,there's no way you have an unlimited reserve of it.
though i do think how the 10 minutes thing played out felt like a stretch for time and the execution was indeed somewhat flawed,but i don't have much of a problem with the logic behind it.

SomeRandomGuy

@Razh:

It's not like I'm missing them, but the whole concept of ever increasing bounties is useless if there isn't anyone who can actually capture or kill a person worth 800 mil, for example. And I doubt Yonkou crew members get betrayed that much. How long would someone who turns over someone from their own crew last?

That's the thing about OP, though.

You don't need a power level of over 9000 to take down tough guys. Being strong in OP doesn't mean they're completely immune to everything below their power tier. Things like poison and bullets still affect even the strongest people. Remember, Whitebeard died to gunfire and Blackbeard nearly died to poison. A random civilian if they got the chance could slip something into a high powered person's food and cart them off afterwards for the reward.

I do agree though, that the whole bounty hunter thing hasn't been explored as much as it could've been.

Kaido King of the Beasts

The Straw Hats haven't exactly been in locations where bounty hunters would normally go after Enies Lobby. Remember that they did get assaulted by bounty hunters on Sabaody, though.

wolfwood

@SomeRandomGuy:

That's the thing about OP, though.

You don't need a power level of over 9000 to take down tough guys. Being strong in OP doesn't mean they're completely immune to everything below their power tier. Things like poison and bullets still affect even the strongest people. Remember, Whitebeard died to gunfire and Blackbeard nearly died to poison. A random civilian if they got the chance could slip something into a high powered person's food and cart them off afterwards for the reward.

I do agree though, that the whole bounty hunter thing hasn't been explored as much as it could've been.

Or the best example. Mr fricking 3 nullified most of Magellan's arsenal.

Rukusho

One think in One Piece thats confusing is Luffys physics I know we shouldn't bring our real world physics into OP but sometimes its just puzzling.
@Black:

I always thought that instead of Luffy just running out of haki after using gear 4th and having to take a 5 minute break it would have been way cooler if Luffy's skin became really loose and saggy and he became a useless old man for time. That way there's a neat little parallel to gear 3rd and it doesn't feel like such an artificial handicap slapped on Luffy.

That would be a good idea since due to the expansion like a ballon after inflated it gets all wrinkly. But then Oda would have to explain why G3 didn't have the same effects. I like the approach Oda used for Gear 4th inflating your muscle properties but having to use COA to make sure the muscles don't burst during the process. I'm fine with the side effects as well he can't move and no haki.

Bigivel

@SomeRandomGuy:

That's the thing about OP, though.

You don't need a power level of over 9000 to take down tough guys. Being strong in OP doesn't mean they're completely immune to everything below their power tier. Things like poison and bullets still affect even the strongest people. Remember, Whitebeard died to gunfire and Blackbeard nearly died to poison. A random civilian if they got the chance could slip something into a high powered person's food and cart them off afterwards for the reward.

I do agree though, that the whole bounty hunter thing hasn't been explored as much as it could've been.

People are also forgetting that the Alive in the Bounty poster means that just telling info useful for the capture of that person by authorities is enough to receive the money! So it makes sense that a strong pirate has a bounty in his head and important info about him is constantly being given to authorities by 3rd parties.

Ruijerd

@Ruin:

i think the word you're looking for is sarcasm

No, he was making a strawman that everyone who disagrees with criticism of the series is a deluded fanboy.

hosemisnuba

@Ruijerd:

No, he was making a strawman that everyone who disagrees with criticism of the series is a deluded fanboy.

This pretty much. Its not exactly inaccurate though. One Piece is rather flawed, but I love it dearly. Yes, John Doe was trying to be a rabble-rouser when he made this thread, but the point stands, One Piece is not immune to criticism, not unlike every piece of fiction ever made.

Long John Silvers Rayleigh

@Bigivel:

People are also forgetting that the Alive in the Bounty poster means that just telling info useful for the capture of that person by authorities is enough to receive the money! So it makes sense that a strong pirate has a bounty in his head and important info about him is constantly being given to authorities by 3rd parties.

I think that's certainly true in our world where most civilians wouldnt be able to go into the base of a notorious criminal and take them into custody without killing them. In One Piece, I'm pretty sure all those people who ratted out robin didn't receive her bounty.

Bigivel

@Long:

I think that's certainly true in our world where most civilians wouldnt be able to go into the base of a notorious criminal and take them into custody without killing them. In One Piece, I'm pretty sure all those people who ratted out robin didn't receive her bounty.

They didn't because the government wasn't able to capture her. But you have in the chapter the example of the old lady that after ratting Robin, explicitly asked for the reward for giving the information.