@Cyan:
We're 100% this isn't Darth, right?
We ALL know the truth in our hearts.
@Cyan:
We're 100% this isn't Darth, right?
We ALL know the truth in our hearts.
Darth being banned was the greatest thing to happen to this forum.
Really excited to find out what Gear 4th is. I'm predicting Doflamingo goes down the chapter after its introduced, but Luffy will be straight styling on him the whole time.
Darth being banned was the greatest thing to happen to this forum.
Really excited to find out what Gear 4th is. I'm predicting Doflamingo goes down the chapter after its introduced, but Luffy will be straight styling on him the whole time.
Would that really Satisfy the fans after all the hype given to this fight these past 2 years or so
What happened to Darth? I've been more than out of the loop.
@DEE:
Why is everyone trying to act like they're one piece veterans..
-____-'
Because we are. Been on One Piece for 11 years that's why
@joekido:
Because we are. Been on One Piece for 11 years that's why
Meanwhile Sandman.
It does make sense, all it takes is to not downplay everything Luffy had to endure up till then. Luffy's literally panting and wheezing after knocking out Bellamy, taking hits, coughing up blood, fighting an equal battle against another HH user in Don Chinjao, fighting off Cavendish, fighting off and running from Pica, clashing with Fujitora, saving Violet from Gladius etc etc. Again if you downplay that to 'not all that much', yeah then it won't make much sense.
No it does not. Equal battle against Don? Is that a joke? Luffy beat him without much difficulty. What did Cavendish do to injury him? What did Pica do to injure him? What did Fujitora do to injury him? He took some hits from a scrub like Bellamy. Bleeding now is massive damage?
Apparently running around is the same as getting your inner organs cut up? Ohh ok, it all makes sense now. You're right. I don't know how I could have missed this! It's a shame a weakling like Law doesn't have the same penetrative attacks as Don who gets one shotted by an old man, a beaten to a pulp Bellamy, and the worst attack of all.. running around an entire city. Frankly, I don't know how Luffy is still standing.
It does make sense, all it takes is to not downplay everything Luffy had to endure up till then. Luffy's literally panting and wheezing after knocking out Bellamy, taking hits, coughing up blood, fighting an equal battle against another HH user in Don Chinjao, fighting off Cavendish, fighting off and running from Pica, clashing with Fujitora, saving Violet from Gladius etc etc. Again if you downplay that to 'not all that much', yeah then it won't make much sense.
Downplay? If anything, you are the one overplaying it.
Perhaps I should add that post from Robby to my signature, so that you never, ever forget it?
It doesnt change anything, your style and arguments are absolutely identical to Darths + you started accound day that Darth gotten banned.
What Robby wrote isnt making what you say automaticaly true. Around 5 minutes on google or second pc are enough to do what you almost certainly do.
I dont understand why you get into exchanges with people on "Me no Darth" when its so clear who you are and silence would at least look better as it would not suggest you take many people here as idiots. Not commenting on such things is better.
And lol at King Cannons reply
@Cyan:
We're 100% this isn't Darth, right?
16 characters of 101%
Darth being banned was the greatest thing to happen to this forum.
Best half of day
So is there any chance for earlier chapter ? Does anybody know if we can expect something tomorrow ?
Even being busy most of time doesnt help with lessening anticipation for Luffy vs Doflamingo and Gear 4th..
Blowing civilians ship that is part of the buster call process? I disagree.
I guess I will have to agree to disagree here. Confirming the death of all archaeologists seemed a reasonable move to me.
So much that I didn't even realize the guy and Akainu were the same person. He seemed like just another random marine doing his job.
Considering his subordinates call him on that and he used Sabo as his cover I disagree he has the choice.
iirc, Garp's subordinates called out on Aokiji's inaction too.
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Why is it sad that there are no schools? Well, for starters, illiterates must be common. And it can be said to show case another facet of authoritorian goverments: cutting people off education, to keep them more controlable.
Though, of course, it can also be that we just never see any.
I personally find schools to be extremely overrated. But the bit about authoritarian government does seem interesting. I wonder if Oda will ever go in that direction.
That's why I said the fight won't be too easy for her. She doesn't like to attack anyone. On that note, why would chopper attack someone without any rivalry either?
I can think of Shanks, Rayleigh, Kizaru, G2 Luffy and a couple others who have been shown to have such speed.
Even strong people like Bartolomeo were not able to see him. Dellinger never saw him coming.
His speed was made a plot point in order to escape a giant blast.
What else do you need to see in order to understand that Hakuba is extremely fast?Yes, Luffy in Gear 2 is still one of the fastest characters in OP. Although, now the top tier opponents are able enough to dodge his attacks.
Just because Gear 2 has become old, you are highly underestimating it.
1. I didn't bring up the scenario of chopper and Rebecca fighting so idk why they would be. However, thats not what i was commenting on. Lets say Rebecca had to kill chopper, how could she? If she even got close he could just guard point and knock her back. Also i doubt her sword skills would even bee strong enough to pierce his monster form skin even if he wasn't defending. Literally all she can do is dodge. Thats fine if u wanna push people into water, but in a real fight that'll only last until her opponent lands a hit or fakes being exhausted so she will go in for an attack.
2. I think speed and the ability to see/sense speed are two different things. Hakuba was fast enough that fodder and a non top executive couldn't see him. Sure bar to couldn't either, but he hasn't trained his eyes/ability for that bc he just puts up a barrier. I agree he's fast, I'm just not sure if i would call him one of the fastest(and for me that means like top 5, maybe 10).
3 Im not underestimating it, infact my comment only said positive things about that mode. Not sure why you think I'm underestimating g2
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Cyan:
We're 100% this isn't Darth, right?
we are 99% sure but a mod asked us not to bring it up so i would advise against it.
If he's not Darth, he should read up on who that guy is and why he was banned bc he's condoning himself in the same manner. "everyones acting like they're better than me/get off your high horse/stop committing this fallacy/youre opinion is wrong/ill insult you but if you insult me I'm gonna cry about it"
not saying this Varus guy is doing these things, just that his behavior s very similar to darth's, who did do these things
also can't wait for this chapter, hope it leaks early on wed(the day we used to get them :( )
@joekido:
Because we are. Been on One Piece for 11 years that's why
right? #byefelicia to you newbies…. >_> haha jk. I don't go on for a week and we're almost to page 100?
I really hope gear 4 has nothing to what we're thinking. I want it to be totally left field.
No it does not. Equal battle against Don? Is that a joke? Luffy beat him without much difficulty. What did Cavendish do to injury him? What did Pica do to injure him? What did Fujitora do to injury him? He took some hits from a scrub like Bellamy. Bleeding now is massive damage?
I agree with you. Don got beat by an attack from Luffy that DD dodged and was like, "come at me bro!" Luffy getting punched was his hesitancy to fight bellamy. Haki is based on emotion/will power, so him not wanting to fight = weaker armor as well (I am theorizing here).
He gave Spandam access to Buster call! He gave SPANDAM access to buster call!!!
I don't even know how to exaggerate that.
It was implied that Spandam stole the Golden Den Den Mushi.
Robin herself questions Spandam about it, and then Spandam dodges the topic by hitting her.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I guess I will have to agree to disagree here. Confirming the death of all archaeologists seemed a reasonable move to me.
So much that I didn't even realize the guy and Akainu were the same person. He seemed like just another random marine doing his job.
There were other ways to do it, like investigate the boat for archeologists.
Blowing everything up was just the lazy approach. Even Spandine who is a major dick was shocked by it.
This is like stopping a hostage situation by blowing up the building where it's happening. The hostages are now dead, but hey, so are the hostage takers! Mission accomplished.
@joekido:
Because we are. Been on One Piece for 11 years that's why
You know, when I read this I thought, damn that's a long time but then I did my math.
I've been a One Piece fan for 9 years!!! I feel old…
You know, when I read this I thought, damn that's a long time but then I did my math.
I've been a One Piece fan for 9 years!!! I feel old…
I sit back thinking, how the hell do people read this weekly. Then i look back at my time. Here are all the years past, and these are the chapters i waited for..
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
It was implied that Spandam stole the Golden Den Den Mushi.
Robin herself questions Spandam about it, and then Spandam dodges the topic by hitting her.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
There were other ways to do it, like investigate the boat for archeologists.
Blowing everything up was just the lazy approach. Even Spandine who is a major dick was shocked by it.
This is like stopping a hostage situation by blowing up the building where it's happening. The hostages are now dead, but hey, so are the hostage takers! Mission accomplished.
But that could be Aokiji :ninja:
It was a "thorough" approach.
@DHL:
I sit back thinking, how the hell do people read this weekly. Then i look back at my time. Here are all the years past, and these are the chapters i waited for..
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But that could be Aokiji :ninja:
It was a "thorough" approach.
Yeah, considering how effective explosions are in One Piece. :ninja:
It was implied that Spandam stole the Golden Den Den Mushi.
Robin herself questions Spandam about it, and then Spandam dodges the topic by hitting her.
That's what I thought at that time. But there were no consequences to his stealing the Golden Den Den Mushi.
In fact, the last time we saw him, he was still with the government planning to eradicate the CP9.
Pretty sure if he had actually stolen it, we would have seen some kind of reaction from authorities.
There were other ways to do it, like investigate the boat for archeologists.
Of course.
"Hey, you guys. I wanna kill all the archaelogists with information on Poneglyphs. But I have no means to distinguish them and people who have no knowledge on the subject. Anyone who knows how to read this stuff raise you hand".
Blowing everything up was just the lazy approach. Even Spandine who is a major dick was shocked by it.
Spandine was shocked because he realized how insignificant he was in government's plans. He didn't give two shits about the rest of the survivors.
This is like stopping a hostage situation by blowing up the building where it's happening. The hostages are now dead, but hey, so are the hostage takers! Mission accomplished.
Only it isn't. The innocent Oharans were not hostages.
A more accurate analogy will be bombing a city with dangerous terrorists even though it involves killing a lot of civilians.
Such collateral damage is morally questionable, but that's just how military works.
Who gives a crap if Verus is Darth, if he is in fact Darth, than hey at least he toned down his argumentative ways, and learned his lesson. If he isn't Darth then that's awesome, because atleast he challenges people (which is partially why I liked Darth). Atleast Verus isn't condescending like Darth was. He also seems more open to what others have to say.
That's what I thought at that time. But there were no consequences to his stealing the Golden Den Den Mushi.
In fact, the last time we saw him, he was still with the government planning to eradicate the CP9.
Pretty sure if he had actually stolen it, we would have seen some kind of reaction from authorities.
The authorities did react to it. When the battleships arrived at Enies Lobby, they expected Aokiji to be there, not Spandam.
Take the above fact with Robin herself saying that Aokiji wouldn't give such authority to somebody like Spandam and then add two and two together.
Of course.
"Hey, you guys. I wanna kill all the archaelogists with information on Poneglyphs. But I have no means to distinguish them and people who have no knowledge on the subject. Anyone who knows how to read this stuff raise you hand".
Uh, incentive the people on the boat to rat them out? They all lived in the same island after all and the scholars were pretty famous too.
Sounds pretty simple.
Spandine was shocked because he realized how insignificant he was in government's plans. He didn't give two shits about the rest of the survivors.
Uh, what? Where did that bullshit come from?
And he was so insignificant that he was the boss of their strongest non-CP0 Cipher Pol. unit. Oh, and he himself has a high rank in the WG nowadays too.
Only it isn't. The innocent Oharans were not hostages.
A more accurate analogy will be bombing a city with dangerous terrorists even though it involves killing a lot of civilians.
Such collateral damage is morally questionable, but that's just how military works.
Doesn't make it reasonable. If the true story of that had gotten out, you can bet the number of Revolutionaries would have skyrocketed. Not to mention the possibility of internal conflict in the military itself.
Also, the point of the whole thing was to criticize exactly the way military works.
Just stop posting about it, you guys just seem immature at this point.
The authorities did react to it. When the battleships arrived at Enies Lobby, they expected Aokiji to be there, not Spandam.
Take the above fact with Robin herself saying that Aokiji wouldn't give such authority to somebody like Spandam and then add two and two together.
As I said, the event itself suggested what you are saying. I won't deny that.
But what I am failing to see is how Spandam is still maintaining his position.
Why wasn't he arrested or executed or something for such a major crime?
Uh, incentive the people on the boat to rat them out? They all lived in the same island after all and the scholars were pretty famous too.
Sounds pretty simple.
Simple does not equal effective. There is really no way to actually confirm that someone has ability to read something.
Everyone will deny himself being an archaeologist. They will start pointing at others. What are you gonna do then?
Uh, what? Where did that bullshit come from?
How he constantly puts forward his life and even says that the only thing that matters is his life? I thought it is pretty established that Spandam and Spandine both care for only themselves with little to no concern towards anything else.
Doesn't make it reasonable. If the true story of that had gotten out, you can bet the number of Revolutionaries would have skyrocketed.
Backlash is a thing, you know.
Sure. The true story will probably increase the number of revolutionaries. But that's an argument against World Government. Not Sakazuki himself.
He was ordered to round up some terrorists, which is what he did. He might have been lied to by the government, but then, you can't really put the blame for that on him, can you?
Now that we all forget about mysterious guy in the palace it's the perfect moment to show him and make us wait one more week for G4
The simple solution is for Verus to make his avatar a picture of Whitebeard looking cool. That should prove beyond a reasonable doubt he's not Darth. Also, Darth had previously stated that he was Polish.
Fujitora Debate #279 seems to have gone on longer than usual this time but finally loops like it's subsided. Hopefully it stays that way until the chapter comes out.
The Who's More Handicapped debate is equally inane. Both characters have taken a lot of damage. Doflamingo can patch himself up anyway so we don't even know how much damage he's retained. Whoever wins is stronger. End of story.
As I said, the event itself suggested what you are saying. I won't deny that.
But what I am failing to see is how Spandam is still maintaining his position.
Why wasn't he arrested or executed or something for such a major crime?
Spandam shifted the blame to CP9. Didn't you read the cover story?
Simple does not equal effective. There is really no way to actually confirm that someone has ability to read something.
Everyone will deny himself being an archaeologist. They will start pointing at others. What are you gonna do then?
Well, Akainu's plan wasn't effective either as there were no scholars there at all. It was a gamble. You can't really call a gamble reasonable.
And heck, people could have survived the blast too. That possibility exists. The best way to go would've be to just arrest everybody and have them live in a secluded area where they couldn't escape (like they did with Flevance, but without the genocide). Not a much more humane option, but way better than death.
Alternately, let everybody free, but send agents to keep an eye on them for the rest of their lives.
How he constantly puts forward his life and even says that the only thing that matters is his life? I thought it is pretty established that Spandam and Spandine both care for only themselves with little to no concern towards anything else.
Spandine was the boss of CP9 at the time. He was not insignificant at all.
Sure. The true story will probably increase the number of revolutionaries. But that's an argument against World Government. Not Sakazuki himself.
He was ordered to round up some terrorists, which is what he did. He might have been lied to by the government, but then, you can't really put the blame for that on him, can you?
Uh, yes, you can. Or else why would the WG bother having a refuge ship for the Oharans?
The WG did not intend to kill the non-scholars. This is important.
This discussion again?
The authorities did react to it. When the battleships arrived at Enies Lobby, they expected Aokiji to be there, not Spandam.
Take the above fact with Robin herself saying that Aokiji wouldn't give such authority to somebody like Spandam and then add two and two together.
Not true. They were refering to Aokiji as having ordered Buster Call, because it was done on his authority. And they've had explicit orders from him to not attack Robin.
The fact that Robin did not understood Aokiji's motives at the time does make it explicit that Spandam stole the golden den-den mushi any more probable, when everything else is against it.
And lastly, there is nothing to say he could actually pull something like that off.
Uh, incentive the people on the boat to rat them out? They all lived in the same island after all and the scholars were pretty famous too.
Sounds pretty simple.
And yet nobody knew about Robin knowing it.
Ability to read is not something readily apparent, or something that could be checked. Your assumption is that nobody could learn the language and hide it, but that is proven wrong by a little girl. If she hadn't blurted out, she would have been completly overlooked.
Aftrer something like that, you are saying that you would be able to prove that there are no people capable of reading poneglyphs amongst the survivors? Okay. How?
Uh, what? Where did that bullshit come from?
And he was so insignificant that he was the boss of their strongest non-CP0 Cipher Pol. unit. Oh, and he himself has a high rank in the WG nowadays too.
And yet it didn't matter in a face of Buster Call, which is what he was shocked by; his lack of immunity, not the scale of the attack.
Doesn't make it reasonable. If the true story of that had gotten out, you can bet the number of Revolutionaries would have skyrocketed. Not to mention the possibility of internal conflict in the military itself.
Also, the point of the whole thing was to criticize exactly the way military works.
No, I'm pretty sure Oda didn't plan for the thing to be some sort of profound commentary.
And if WWII air raids are anything to go by, nobody would care. Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki we deliberate shock weapons, used on targets amonst high population cities. Do you want to have approval ratings for that? Because it is terryfying how high they are.
And yes, they went down overtime, but nobody rebelled against it. There was no massive internal conflict in the military. As long as it doesn't affect the people itself, they will not care. That is a sad truth of morality, unfortunately.
And One Piece goverment does not care, as seen by the man responsible becoming an Admiral. Neither do his men, as seen by complete poker faces of his crew after he blow up the ship.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well, Akainu's plan wasn't effective either as there were no scholars there at all. It was a gamble. You can't really call a gamble reasonable.
And heck, people could have survived the blast too. That possibility exists. The best way to go would've be to just arrest everybody and have them live in a secluded area where they couldn't escape (like they did with Flevance, but without the genocide). Not a much more humane option, but way better than death.
Alternately, let everybody free, but send agents to keep an eye on them for the rest of their lives.
Arguable. And your argument would work if A) Goverment had resources to spare B) There weren't incredibly powerful pirates around to try and use those people C) Actually, killing of all them is not a gamble. You need to take risks to gamble. What he did was not a equivalent of playing the dice, but rather melting the cup and the dice together so that they can never be used again. D) Scholars had stated intention of revealing the secret. How do you stop them from that?
Uh, yes, you can. Or else why would the WG bother having a refuge ship for the Oharans?
The WG did not intend to kill the non-scholars. This is important.
Yes, but at the time they didn't knew there were people amongst non-scholars capable of reading poneglyps.
So yes, Robin provides plenty of evidence and justification to Akainu's actions by simply existing.
Spandam shifted the blame to CP9. Didn't you read the cover story?
I don't remember anything like that. The cover story showed CP9 being pursued by the world Government.
It is still not clear to me as to why. Maybe as you said, Spandam shifted the blame of triggering the buster call on cp9.
I personally find that unlikely since he is the leader of the cp9 and any of the thousands of marines would have testified on him being the cause of false alarm.
Well, Akainu's plan wasn't effective either as there were no scholars there at all. It was a gamble. You can't really call a gamble reasonable.
And heck, people could have survived the blast too. That possibility exists. The best way to go would've be to just arrest everybody and have them live in a secluded area where they couldn't escape (like they did with Flevance, but without the genocide). Not a much more humane option, but way better than death.
Alternately, let everybody free, but send agents to keep an eye on them for the rest of their lives.
Firstly, we don't know if there were any scholars on that boat. At least I don't remember anything like that. Was it mentioned in some SBS?
Second, Making sure that no one escaped is not a gamble. A gamble is something which has an non-deterministic result. Akainu had a deterministic plan. Kill everyone so that there is no chance of any archaelogist escaping.
A gamble would be letting them escape and assuming that you can keep all of them under check for the rest of their lives. Something which is highly unlikely considering Kuzan did the same for Robin and failed miserably(Robin by chance happened to not tell Crocodile. If she had told him, what would Kuzan have done?).
If the Marines aren't even capable of keeping a single girl under check, doing the same for a boatload of people is a huge gamble.
Spandine was the boss of CP9 at the time. He was not insignificant at all.
So significant that the ships started attacking the island with no concern as to whether the leader is on the island or not?
The government hasn't really shown too much concern to positions when it comes to buster call.
Which is what was surprising to Spandine. His position suddenly seemed useless against a Buster Call.
we are 99% sure but a mod asked us not to bring it up so i would advise against it.
If he's not Darth, he should read up on who that guy is and why he was banned bc he's condoning himself in the same manner. "everyones acting like they're better than me/get off your high horse/stop committing this fallacy/youre opinion is wrong/ill insult you but if you insult me I'm gonna cry about it"
not saying this Varus guy is doing these things, just that his behavior s very similar to darth's, who did do these things
Wait, he was banned for that? If anything, that is so broad list of charges you could banned almost anybody on this board for doing it. Especially the bit about opinions of others being wrong.
Wait, he was banned for that?
People with no star don't really know why he was banned. Do you want my theory ?
Not true. They were refering to Aokiji as having ordered Buster Call, because it was done on his authority. And they've had explicit orders from him to not attack Robin.
The fact that Robin did not understood Aokiji's motives at the time does make it explicit that Spandam stole the golden den-den mushi any more probable, when everything else is against it.
And lastly, there is nothing to say he could actually pull something like that off.
They thought Aokiji started the Buster Call exactly because they didn't know the Golden Den Den Mushi was stolen.
Robin's words and Spandam's reaction all but tell that he did steal the thing. Otherwise, Oda wouldn't even bother putting that scene in.
No, I'm pretty sure Oda didn't plan for the thing to be some sort of profound commentary.
The Marine's way of Absolute Justice has been portrayed terribly through the whole comic.
You think Oda doesn't do social commentary?
And if WWII air raids are anything to go by, nobody would care. Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki we deliberate shock weapons, used on targets amonst high population cities. Do you want to have approval ratings for that? Because it is terryfying how high they are.
And yes, they went down overtime, but nobody rebelled against it. There was no massive internal conflict in the military. As long as it doesn't affect the people itself, they will not care. That is a sad truth of morality, unfortunately.
You don't understand the point of social commentary, do you? You're supposed to reflect about things like that. If people do not care, then give them something to think about.
Just because that's the way things are, it's not an excuse to not do anything about it. Things can change.
Arguable. And your argument would work if A) Goverment had resources to spare B) There weren't incredibly powerful pirates around to try and use those people C) Actually, killing of all them is not a gamble. You need to take risks to gamble. What he did was not a equivalent of playing the dice, but rather melting the cup and the dice together so that they can never be used again. D) Scholars had stated intention of revealing the secret. How do you stop them from that?
They can have the resources. If a bunch of random Fishmen were able to isolate an entire village from the rest of the world, then I don't see how that would be hard.
Heck, put them in a Calm Belt island, where escape is almost impossible.
Yes, but at the time they didn't knew there were people amongst non-scholars capable of reading poneglyps.
So yes, Robin provides plenty of evidence and justification to Akainu's actions by simply existing.
There were other actions that could be taken. Sure would have taken more resources, but it was for the life of innocents (they should have at least taken the time to analyze the situation). Those people did not deserve death, which is why Absolute Justice is contradictory as there's no justice in there.
But in the end, the joke's on Akainu. He only killed innocents, and his action actually helped Robin escape. I dunno how anyone could say he was effective.
No it does not. Equal battle against Don? Is that a joke? Luffy beat him without much difficulty. What did Cavendish do to injury him? What did Pica do to injure him? What did Fujitora do to injury him? He took some hits from a scrub like Bellamy. Bleeding now is massive damage?
Apparently running around is the same as getting your inner organs cut up? Ohh ok, it all makes sense now. You're right. I don't know how I could have missed this! It's a shame a weakling like Law doesn't have the same penetrative attacks as Don who gets one shotted by an old man, a beaten to a pulp Bellamy, and the worst attack of all.. running around an entire city. Frankly, I don't know how Luffy is still standing.
I'm sorry that it doesn't make sense for you then I guess. No need for the insults though, it won't make your arguments more valid.
You're arguing Luffy not being injured on all these occasions and not nearly as injured as Doffy, while that's not what I'm saying either. I'm saying Luffy is just as handicapped as Doffy, Doffy has his patched up internal wounds, while Luffy is worn out from all the fighting, panting and wheezing since he made it to the top floor. It's only a guessing game as to how effectively handicapped they are now in the OP universe, so the only thing we can go by is Doffy and Luffy's statements and Oda's history of having equal battles. The rest is just speculations.
Downplay? If anything, you are the one overplaying it.
No drive-by posts please. At least state why you find this or we'll just put eachother on the ignore list.
The Who's More Handicapped debate is equally inane. Both characters have taken a lot of damage. Doflamingo can patch himself up anyway so we don't even know how much damage he's retained. Whoever wins is stronger. End of story.
Hey, one can try to explain it right?
Firstly, we don't know if there were any scholars on that boat. At least I don't remember anything like that. Was it mentioned in some SBS?
Second, Making sure that no one escaped is not a gamble. A gamble is something which has an non-deterministic result. Akainu had a deterministic plan. Kill everyone so that there is no chance of any archaelogist escaping.
A gamble would be letting them escape and assuming that you can keep all of them under check for the rest of their lives. Something which is highly unlikely considering Kuzan did the same for Robin and failed miserably(Robin by chance happened to not tell Crocodile. If she had told him, what would Kuzan have done?).
If the Marines aren't even capable of keeping a single girl under check, doing the same for a boatload of people is a huge gamble.
Alright, it was not a gamble. It still wasn't effective and didn't accomplish anything.
Also, CP9 was able to round up scholars, which shows that they are competent at investigating. It's not hard to assume that CP9 had a list with the names of scholars.
Alright, it was not a gamble. It still wasn't effective and didn't accomplish anything.
Yes, it didn't accomplish anything. But It didn't accomplish anything because Kuzan betrayed the Marines.
How is someone supposed to plan ahead for high ranking officers neglecting their duties?
Also, CP9 was able to round up scholars, which shows that they are competent at investigating.
Agreed. They are quite competent at investigating.
But they are few. And monitoring a boat full of people(I' assuming a few dozens at least) for the rest of their lives is not an easy tasks for a limited number of elites.
It's not impossible, but as I said, an extremely risky move to make. Not to mention the terrible wastage of elite spies being used as monitors for the rest of their lives.
Agreed. They are quite competent at investigating.
But they are few. And monitoring a boat full of people(I' assuming a few dozens at least) for the rest of their lives is not an easy tasks for a limited number of elites.
It's not impossible, but as I said, an extremely risky move to make. Not to mention the terrible wastage of elite spies being used as monitors for the rest of their lives.
They still should have analyzed the situation. One can argue that Akainu did the logical thing, but the fact that he did it so abruptly without any consultation (the ship was the WG's idea) shows how little contempt he has over the loss of human life.
It wasn't his job to destroy that ship.
I guess I will have to agree to disagree here. Confirming the death of all archaeologists seemed a reasonable move to me.
So much that I didn't even realize the guy and Akainu were the same person. He seemed like just another random marine doing his job.
Reasonable or not he still overstepped his order. The ship wasn't a random addition. It was as much part of the operation as the other marine battleships. Evacuation of the civilians was as much part of the orders than getting rid of the civilians. He decided he could ignore that part.
iirc, Garp's subordinates called out on Aokiji's inaction too.
Didn't they just ask him if he was planning on doing something? I can't see them forcing Garp's assignment on someone else.
They still should have analyzed the situation. One can argue that Akainu did the logical thing, but the fact that he did it so abruptly without any consultation shows how little contempt he has over human life.
Agreed. He is morally wrong. He is, after all, an antagonist.
They still should have analyzed the situation. One can argue that Akainu did the logical thing, but the fact that he did it so abruptly without any consultation (the ship was the WG's idea) shows how little contempt he has over the loss of human life.
It wasn't his job to destroy that ship.
One does not equal another.
Akainu's amorality was never in question. There never was anybody who would try to tell us he wasn't ruthless when the situation called for it.
At the same time, however, one could argue he acted within the spirit of the orders, not the letter: Prevent the threat to the world.
Now that we all forget about mysterious guy in the palace it's the perfect moment to show him and make us wait one more week for G4
Isn't it goldenweek after this chapter and a 2 weeks break?
That's would be too much.
And there's nothing mysterious about the guy in the palace. It's Burgess…or Meadows.
At the same time, however, one could argue he acted within the spirit of the orders, not the letter: Prevent the threat to the world.
Which, ironically, ended up having the opposite effect.
I guess that's Karma at work.
They thought Aokiji started the Buster Call exactly because they didn't know the Golden Den Den Mushi was stolen.
Robin's words and Spandam's reaction all but tell that he did steal the thing. Otherwise, Oda wouldn't even bother putting that scene in.
No they do not. They tell Robin, who met Kuzan for all of few minutes on a burning island, thought it was out of character for him to give him said GDDM.
Which, as we know, it was. She was puzzled by his motivation, not implying Spandam's stole it.
And again, Aokiji gave orders to Buster Call. Orders Spandam did not know about. It does not add up.
The Marine's way of Absolute Justice has been portrayed terribly through the whole comic.
You think Oda doesn't do social commentary?
No, I don't. I think people are enforcing their own beliefs by interpreting situation as it is convenient.
You don't understand the point of social commentary, do you? You're supposed to reflect about things like that. If people do not care, then give them something to think about.
Just because that's the way things are, it's not an excuse to not do anything about it. Things can change.
I'm sorry, I'm critising you for saying revealing it would have great effect in universe, by comparing that situation to the known situations of the real world.
How the hell did interpret it as me not understanding social commentary?
They can have the resources. If a bunch of random Fishmen were able to isolate an entire village from the rest of the world, then I don't see how that would be hard.
Heck, put them in a Calm Belt island, where escape is almost impossible.
Those two situations have nothing in common. Stop strawmanning.
There were other actions that could be taken. Sure would have taken more resources, but it was for the life of innocents (they should have at least taken the time to analyze the situation). Those people did not deserve death, which is why Absolute Justice is contradictory as there's no justice in there.
But in the end, the joke's on Akainu. He only killed innocents, and his action actually helped Robin escape. I dunno how anyone could say he was effective.
It's like saying that Whitebeard sure sucks because Squardo betrayed him.
And from utilitarian stand point, Akainu took the best course of action.
As for absolute justice being contradictory… Oda clearly does not believe in absolutism of values.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Which, ironically, ended up having the opposite effect.
I guess that's Karma at work.
You mean deliberate sabotage.
Meh. You can always argue that he could have done more. His solution was the most efficient, and most amoral. Nothing more, nothing less.
They can have the resources. If a bunch of random Fishmen were able to isolate an entire village from the rest of the world, then I don't see how that would be hard.
Definitely a good point.
No they do not. They tell Robin, who met Kuzan for all of few minutes on a burning island, thought it was out of character for him to give him said GDDM.
Which, as we know, it was. She was puzzled by his motivation, not implying Spandam's stole it.
And again, Aokiji gave orders to Buster Call. Orders Spandam did not know about. It does not add up.
Then why was Spandam acting all suspicious when questioned about it?
No, I don't. I think people are enforcing their own beliefs by interpreting situation as it is convenient.
So I guess racism was not a thing at Fishman Island. It must have been everybody's imagination.
And the slavery. And the social class disparity…
I'm sorry, I'm critising you for saying revealing it would have great effect in universe, by comparing that situation to the known situations of the real world.
How the hell did interpret it as me not understanding social commentary?
Because why the fuck are you comparing real life's reactions with in-universe's ones?
Especially of a time where the mentality of people was very different because of constant conflict. You think people don't criticize those times?
Those two situations have nothing in common. Stop strawmanning.
Strawmanning? It's a fucking comic book that doesn't work by real life standards.
The point is that an alternative that didn't have to involve hundreds of innocents dying existed as the WG clearly wanted people to escape. A situation that involves the lives of people is something that should be given time to analyze.
And from utilitarian stand point, Akainu took the best course of action.
Funny, had he not done anything and just followed with the operation, Robin would have been captured by Kuzan.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Meh. You can always argue that he could have done more. His solution was the most efficient, and most amoral. Nothing more, nothing less.
You can't call something efficient if the results weren't effective (number of scholars killed by Akainu's action = 0).
@uniaka:
Isn't it goldenweek after this chapter and a 2 weeks break?
That's would be too much.
And there's nothing mysterious about the guy in the palace. It's Burgess…or Meadows.
Golden Week starts in 29th I think. Not sure if they're going to start that week, since 29th is Wednesday. Possibly a double issue since it's the last week of April, then one week break only.
Then why was Spandam acting all suspicious when questioned about it?
He didn't act suspicious, he acted offended that Robin would dare to question him. In character for the ass he is.
And you still haven't explained why would Aokiji give orders to the buster call he did not have anything to do with.
So I guess racism was not a thing at Fishman Island. It must have been everybody's imagination.
And the slavery. And the social class disparity…
Yes, the mere presence of a thing makes it a social commentary.
So you are also saying he glorifies vigilantism? Or that he approves of prison breaks, as long as one in question is a family?
Please.
Because why the fuck are you comparing real life's reactions with in-universe's ones?
Especially of a time where the mentality of people was very different because of constant conflict. You think people don't criticize those times?
Because human mentality does not change nearly as much as you suggest, and it is a good comparison.
Humans act like humans. It's one of the principles of a good story.
Strawmanning? It's a fucking comic book that doesn't work by real life standards.
The point is that an alternative that didn't have to involve hundreds of innocents dying existed as the WG clearly wanted people to escape. A situation that involves the lives of people is something that should be given time to analyze.
Assumption being that Sakazuki didn't analyzed it, because if he did, he would come to your conclusion, right?
I know belittling opponents is a common tactics in eristics, but you don't have to do it to fictional characters as well. If one takes amoral approach, it is completly possible to arrive at Akainu's conclusion.
Funny, had he not done anything and just followed with the operation, Robin would have been captured by Kuzan.
And if one scholar had a brother he taught poneglyphs to, and said brother wanted revenge, the world would burn.
If we are talking about ifs, Sakazuki's plan has less holes in it.
You can't call something efficient if the results weren't effective (number of scholars killed by Akainu's action = 0).
I can call something efficient if it does not rely on using massive resources that can be used instead to, dunno, countering giant plague of man murdering pillaging pirates.
And it only counts as ineffective if you can prove, from in universe stand-point, that there were no scholars on that boat.
Reasonable or not he still overstepped his order. The ship wasn't a random addition. It was as much part of the operation as the other marine battleships. Evacuation of the civilians was as much part of the orders than getting rid of the civilians. He decided he could ignore that part.
Fair point.
Didn't they just ask him if he was planning on doing something? I can't see them forcing Garp's assignment on someone else.
They specifically said how it's not a good thing for him to sit on the sidelines when the enemy is in front of his eyes.
http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v45/c438/6.html
Yes, the mere presence of a thing makes it a social commentary.
So you are also saying he glorifies vigilantism? Or that he approves of prison breaks, as long as one in question is a family?
Please.
Racism, slavery and other similar things were focused and elaborated enough to be considered commentaries.
Because human mentality does not change nearly as much as you suggest, and it is a good comparison.
Humans act like humans. It's one of the principles of a good story.
Human mentality is influenced by several things. We're not the same as when we were in the Middle Ages for example. It helps that nowadays we live in a globalized world.
But alas, I'm not a psychologist. But I do know that most of the functionings of the human brain is still unknown.
Assumption being that Sakazuki didn't analyzed it, because if he did, he would come to your conclusion, right?
He was not the only one who should have analyzed it. What about Aokiji's opinion? And Sengoku? And the WG?
It wasn't solely Akainu's job to decide what to do.
I know belittling opponents is a common tactics in eristics, but you don't have to do it to fictional characters as well. If one takes amoral approach, it is completly possible to arrive at Akainu's conclusion.
I'm not saying Akainu would have come to a different conclusion. Just that he wasn't the only one that should have decided what to do.
And if one scholar had a brother he taught poneglyphs to, and said brother wanted revenge, the world would burn.
If we are talking about ifs, Sakazuki's plan has less holes in it.
I can call something efficient if it does not rely on using massive resources that can be used instead to, dunno, countering giant plague of man murdering pillaging pirates.
And it only counts as ineffective if you can prove, from in universe stand-point, that there were no scholars on that boat.
Like I said before, the WG had good investigators. They managed to round up all scholars in the island, which makes me believe that they knew who they all were and could identify them easily. Any scholar trying to get in the ship would have been easily identified as well.
If their intention was to prevent any threat from escaping, then they wouldn't even disponibilize a refuge ship. They had faith on their agents.
Robin was overlooked becaused she was barely seen with the scholars, and because she was considered too young to have mastered the poneglyph language.