Love: Everything about him is awesome and manly
Loathe: Nothing
5/5
Love and Loathe: Daily One Piece Character Analysis
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@Light:
Love: Well, he's plain awesome. Even at his eighties he still nukes it out with admirals. Not to mention is a great father figure. Plus Dat Moustache.
Loathe: Nothing in particular. Tough Dat Moustache did look a little silly.
Overall: 4.5/5
Whaaaaaaat? He has the manliest mustache of OP, even manlier than Zeff's mustache, which by itself already means a lot.
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Love: You have to love the man who waged war and brought it to the doorstep of the WG. All for family. All for one man he called a son. That says a lot about his character and even more so because of all of those who followed that man to their likely deaths in that war.
Loathe: A little bit too trusting.
Rating: A mighty 4.5/5
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Edward Newgate
Love: Whitebeard is the standard for all of piracy's morality in One Piece. Whereas other pirates pillage towns, he saves them; and whereas more pirates care only about themselves, he fights for the sake of his family and friends. Most importantly, this is all pulled off so…believably!
By the beginning of the Marineford War, your only reason to have rooted for Whitebeard may've been Ace and Luffy; but by the end of it, you're probably rooting for him and him alone, because what he stands for at that point in the story is so much bigger than them.
Hate: Honestly, we're given so little opportunity to find faults with this guy, but if I could think of one, it'd be his inability to forecast the future. Just got done talking with Roger about the significance of "D," yet you still don't want to know about Raftel? Brilliant! Let your loyal D-branded subordinate go after your not-so-loyal D-branded subordinate, even though you know that the nature of D-named people makes them ticking time bombs??? Way to go, pal! For the most part, it seems like a lot of the problems that led to the Whitebeard War could have been avoided with some more proactivity on ole Newgate's part.
5/5
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Love: Almost everything. That panel when he stops Squardo's ship without effort tells everything there's is to love about Whitebeard whether it is his extreme strength, his immense love for his sons or his willingness to sacrifice himself for them. He is the one I like the most in One Piece.
Loathe: Deciding he could let it go when Thach was killed by Teach. If you have a bad feeling… go yourself. Having a devil fruit, I just wanted the strongest man to not have eat the magical fruit that makes a pirate unable to swim. The speech when he died. Seems like Oda wanted to do a remix of Roger's death and I hated it. Whtiebeard should have gone after saying a last farewell to his sons not by rambling about One Piece existing or future fight and Roger's legacy.
4.8 which goes up to 5/5
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Love: He really cares about his sons. He declared war on the World Government just to save one. I love how unlike most pirates who are after treasure and fame, he wants family. Unlike Big Mom, Kaido, and Blackbeard who amass territory to increase their own forces and power, he claims islands to protect the people that inhabit them. He took hundreds of swords, bullets, and cannonballs + magma to his internal organs and half his face blown off, and he died standing up.
Loathe: He didn't take his health problems very seriously. If he had actually taken care of himself and acknowledged his poor health, he might have been in a bit better shape. Not that it stopped him from kicking serious ass in Marineford, but maybe he wouldn't have had a heart attack when he tried to stop the executioners for example.
4.5/5. -
Love: Almost everything. That panel when he stops Squardo's ship without effort tells everything there's is to love about Whitebeard whether it is his extreme strength, his immense love for his sons or his willingness to sacrifice himself for them. He is the one I like the most in One Piece.
Loathe: Deciding he could let it go when Thach was killed by Teach. If you have a bad feeling… go yourself. Having a devil fruit, I just wanted the strongest man to not have eat the magical fruit that makes a pirate unable to swim. The speech when he died. Seems like Oda wanted to do a remix of Roger's death and I hated it. Whtiebeard should have gone after saying a last farewell to his sons not by rambling about One Piece existing or future fight and Roger's legacy.
4.8 which goes up to 5/5
Ratings have to be from 1 to 5, either the round number or .5, or else they don't count.
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Love: Can I say just everything? He was a man who stood like a legend even in death, he was strong like a monster. BUT he was greatest father for his sons. He saved thousands of people and was crazy enough to hunt down anyone who'd hurt his nakama. And not only he gave parent to his sons but brothers too, lot of brothers and helped them create the strong bond.
Loathe: nothing. I understand and respect every of his actions.
Rating: 5/5
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Love: That he treated his pirate crew as his "sons" and "daughters". I found that to be very heart-warming, considering that most pirates who have a wife+kids leave them behind, but Whitebeard desired to have a family. I like how although he doesn't have a family through blood, he created one through a love for adventure.
Loathe: During the Marineford War, I don't get why he would allow Squardo to stab him rather than at least try to block the attack. I still believe the speech would've got through to Squardo without the stab. Also, I find it odd that he hasn't made it to Raftel or even care to go to Raftel, considering that he's Gol D. Roger's rival, but I assume Gol D. already told him what One Piece was before he was executed. Still, if he does know about what One Piece is, he seem to not give a damn about it other than confirm that it does exist before he died. Seems like his purpose was to just be a Gol D. Roger 2.0.
3.5/5
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Love: He was (of course) insanely strong. His experience as a pirate showed when he anticipated most of the baits Sengoku set. His death has a huge emotional impact and effectively marks the change of an era. The comment about his back clean of scars talks loads about his attitude during life. Only ater fighting (and failing his objective) he decides to stay and die while going all out and giving a chance for the survivors to retreat. There's a well done self sacrifice. The recount of his injuries is epic (sad that this word has lost power because of overuse).
Hate: That he had to be weakened by a disease for plot reasons, and how it was executed. Going from flinging giants to coughing blood because of poor kidney function, and then back to stop a ship with a single arm is a suspension of disbelief breaker. He didn't manage the situation about Blackbeard properly. On one side, he was kind of laissez faire with his crew (in particular, Ace's decision to hunt Blackbeard). But another importan part of his character was that he did intervene to save even one of his subordinates; after Shanks warning, he should have realized Ace was in actual danger and take action. His late reaction was also harmful to the zones he protected.
4/5 (he was responsible for many critical events, made some poor decisions but then tried to fix them by giving everything he had to give).
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Whitebeard
Love: Badass old man with an even more badass power. I liked his unique way of living his dream, his life as a pirate, by treating every one of his crewmates as his children. Fought till the very end, and he was equally serious regarding betarayal as he was with love towards his sons. I'm sure if Blackbeard wasn't so tough, WB would've killed him for sure.
Loathe: the above mentioned was his downfall, Blackbeard betrayed him, then Squardo too. He never pursued ambitious goals and he was content with what he had. This is a bit conflicting with him being a Yonkou, because I would imagine a pirate with his caliber is more ambitious.
Overall: 4.5/5
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Love: A father to his men. Try to kill or threaten the live of his men He will beat the shit out of you and also he can give some high boost of morale. Also his manliness goes up to 11 when he is left dead standing on foot with no injury in his back.
Loathe:He's dead, but with style.
5/5 -
Love: His strength is the stuff of legend. When he was in his prime he equaled roger. When he wasn't he kicked he still destroyed marineford along with Akainu. Its remarkable how a man of his stature and strength didn't get corrupted by his own strength. Even in death he stood, against incredible odds to protect what he loved. You just cant help loving a character after that can you?
Loathe: Loathe would be too strong a word to describe something about whitebeard but his failure to deal with blackbeard lead to so much damage and death, that went on even after his death, with people rampaging across his former territories. Whitebeard would have to take responsibility for all the damage that happened during the war and its aftermath because it was his ineptitude in dealing with blackbeard that was the root of it all.
Rating 3.5/5 -
Loath: Tough he was portrayed as the strongest man in the world, he actually wasn't because of his sickness. Having the strongest DF power in the world, there wasn't much he could do in the the war. Treating that many pirates as his children was a weakness, allowing Squardo to attack him. And he fucked up, having to let a rookie free Ace and in the end Ace died anyway. You could say Whitebeard is the most bad ass fail.
4/5
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love: well he can crack the air and dat mustache, I also really liked his weapon
loathe: can't think of anything
5/5
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Love: His dog?
"Loathe": To be honest, I think WB was kinda underwhelming for a character that held the position of the strongest and most influent pirate in the seas in the current age. I don't question his strength, the guy was a beast, but his personality just hits me as plain boring. The "family" part could be interesting, but I feel like it was not properly developed.
Granted the fact almost all his screen time was in a war where he had to share the field with a thousand other great character doesn't help him, but usually the "old strongest guy" is always a character that draws all the attention to him when he is around and I don't think WB was able to do that, even when all the lights were turned to him.
I don't hate him, I don't like him, he just leaves no strong impression in me. Unless a flashback adds more to him, he will always be the kind of character I will forget was even there and I think that is a major flaw in a character built like him.1.5/5
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Love: His death. It was one of the coolest things ever. Instead of being sad, or even shocked at his death, I was literally thinking "YES! THAT WAS AWESOME! DIE AGAIN! THAT WAS SO COOL!"
And of course his dog Stefan is pretty kickass as well.Loathe: Nothing in particular, he didn't really do enough to have things to loathe.
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Love: What I liked the most was WB's whole "family" dynamic with his crew. Despite being a mighty pirate who was around in Roger's time, the guy just wanted a family. It contrasts nicely with his macho, super-intense side we always see. I mean, to see him risking it all just to save one crewmate (Ace), and even forgiving Squardo in the middle of the battle…..when the time called for it, he was a caring beast.
Loathe: scratches head Dunno. Guess he was a little too trusting? (I don't want to call this "loathe", so much)
4.5/5
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Love: Even though he was the strongest out there, and the most influential pirate, no matter what, he was never blinded by his fame or strength. He always seemed reasonable, and treated his crew pretty much as Luffy treats his nakama. Not many pirates are like that (Kuro comes to mind). He trusted each and every one of them and loved them like children. The whole concept of "Family" was a surprising aspect, not that I actually expected it when Whitebeard first appeared. He was first shown as a jerk, who though he had nothing to fear, but he went through an interesting development in the war. He was a nice man, who made such rogues like Sqardo shed tears, just because he still treated them like children, no matter what.
His power was nicely done. The quake man was amongst the expected abilities he might have, but it still was executed differently from what I imagined it would be. His power really showcased that he is the strongest man in the world, when he created a freakin tsunami I truly understood, that it's gonna be a fantastic arc.
His death was executed well, and I liked his last moments very much. Can't say more about him.
Loathe: Loathe is not really the word I'd put in here, but rather disappointment.
I guess he could have done more in Marinford. For most of the battle he stood and sometimes used his power. I expected some more showcase of his great strength, despite him being ill and sick.
Also, when you're sick, why not just acknowledge it and ask for a proper treatment? Why acting all high and mighty when he himself said "I'm only one man with one heart" then why don't you take care of yourself? I'm pretty sure he could afford it with his level of influence.He should have used Haki more in the war. It's a war, where the top dogs of the marines gather and he expected to do this without usage of Haki? Why didn't he kill Aokiji with his spear? Why did he punch Akainu all over the place when he could just stab him with Haki? And what about Conquerors Haki? Though I'm not pretty sure he has it, but if he did he could use it more and actually fodderize all the marines at least below Vice Admirals.
Anyway 5/5 he was a decent character. -
Love : everything, his power, his dream, his character, his manliness, his coolness, his death…. I don't remember something I didn't like about him.
Loath : maybe the fact that there was no big FB about him? But IMO it's understandable, because this FB would have a lot of spoiler regarding his first crew-mates, his relation with Roger/Garp/Shiki and all strong pirate.... I honestly believe that we will see all this sometimes... in the distant future....
5/5.
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Love: Everything, from his powers and abilities to his dreams and philosophies. Not all pirates seek wealth and fame, and Whitebeard shows that just cause you put family over treasure, it doesn't make you a wuss. This is a man who has the power and conviction to do as he pleases, and what pleases him is absolutely heartwarming.
Loathe: This is hard…I guess despite being an exemplary father figure, he's pretty hard to relate to. Though I think that actually works well for someone you're supposed to look up to. Still...something about him just doesn't click with me and is preventing me from giving him a perfect score. I'm going to take a guess here, but I think maybe if you strip him of his abilities and his crew, he's actually kind of boring as a character.
4.5/5
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Love: An all around awesome father figure. He's strong, strong willed, and always puts his family first. The guy takes a sword through the heart by his own son, and the first thing he does is stoop down to give the confused little guy a hug (it was a good hint, city). He continued to stand and fight until after his dying breath, how awesome, and took a ridiculous number of attacks before finally kicking the bucket. An extremely powerful death scene… and mustache!
And this:
BAD. ASS.Loathe: He's missing a good back story. We can probably imagine why he has sought a family ever since his youth, but I don't want to imagine it. I want to see more of the man's history and his relationship with Roger. Oda shows just enough for us to see that they were friendly rivals, only to tease us with a tiny reveal about the D's and that there is a special way to get to Raftel. Come on, now!
4.5/5
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Oh… I'm goint to get some really stimulating comments over this, ain't I...
Sooo! Edward Newgate. Also known as Whitebeard.
Love: He is arguably badass... Objectively, probably the most badass person in the whole One Piece world, regardless of what overhypers been saying about the other Yonkou... Loved his powers, as well. I do like the characters that are pure destructive force.
Loathe: "Sigh" I don't want to do this. I might as well dress myself in a meat suit and release hungry dogs...
So, what do I loathe about Whitebeard... For starters, if you are woried about Teach and his case being weird, go with your sons to hunt him down, and don't let Ace take care of the matters by himself... He can invade Marineford, but not hunt one pirate down?
Next up... his carelessness. Honestly, with him throwing that many AoE around, may I just point out that Admirals saved Ace twice from his attacks? And don't give me that he knew that would happen, it still is careless. He also kinda had no other plan than "Charge!", which cost him guys, btw. Like Oars.
Next stop... a little bit too forgiving, in my opinion, but I don't mind that too much.
His endurance also got a little bit on my nerves, if only because it started to be a little bit of a bullshit, when he casualy shrugged of having half of his blown away, only to die because of bullets.
All of those are rather minor though. So, here comes the big one.
The "One Piece is real" speach. I hate it. And I know it's harping on man's romance, I really do, but it comes off, to me at least, simply as mean spirited. It actually worsens the situation of his people, worsens the situation of Islands he protected, worsens the situation of Fishmen island and Jimbei signitificantly, cause countless deaths across the globe... when Blackbeard acknoledges that you've done well, you should probaly rethink your actions.
All and all... just too much things for me to ignore.
Final judgment: 2/5
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Thank you for the 48 hour evaluation time city_lights31, I find 24 hours too short that I do end up missing some of the character evaluations.
Also thank you for shining the spotlight on Whitebeard, I've been waiting for him =)._______________________________________________
Love: The way he died - I'd be happy to die if I had a grin like that on my face. Edward Newgate aka. "Whitebeard", what a guy. A monster, yes, a beast, definitely, but most of all he was a human, just "one man with one heart". Whitebeard ignited the will of those witness to his overwhelming resolve and quaked open the path to the New Era and became the catalyst that brought forth changes that have and still are echoing through One Piece.
The way Oda covered Whitebeard was brilliant, he entered Marineford with only a fraction of his full strength, but from start right to his dying breath and even beyond that, he oozed out awesomeness. It was no wonder why so many pirates were willing to put their lives on the line to follow him.
Another aspect to love was how Luffy really brought out the best in Whitebeard, who ultimately became the foundation for their era. It was incredibly romantic. For me the three reasons for why I loved the Summit War Saga were: Love, Death and Whitebeard.
Loathe: that he didn't trash Sakazuki some more.
5/5
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@Lao:
He should have used Haki more in the war. It's a war, where the top dogs of the marines gather and he expected to do this without usage of Haki? Why didn't he kill Aokiji with his spear? Why did he punch Akainu all over the place when he could just stab him with Haki?
I thought he did use Haki on Aokiji though… And anyway, plot convenience. The same reason Akainu didn't ripped his whole head off with Meigo while Whitebeard was coughing up blood and was completly defenseless...
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I thought he did use Haki on Aokiji though… And anyway, plot convenience. The same reason Akainu didn't ripped his whole head off with Meigo while Whitebeard was coughing up blood and was completly defenseless...
I get the feeling that he tried to, but WB just barely avoided it. If you can even call it that.
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I get the feeling that he tried to, but WB just barely avoided it. If you can even call it that.
No, no. I mean earlier. You know, when he was on the ground, and Akainu busted that hole in his chest? He did not seem to be capable of dodging then, to be honest.
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Love : Whitebeard's whole crew as family relationship, his gura gura powers, his laugh, his tache, Edward Newgate had a whole lot of great characteristics. The one that stood out for me though, was his willingness to change the era, even though it would end his own. Some of his quotes from Marineford are favourites of mine from the series as a whole. Particularly;
"Go now! There is no ship that can carry me into the new era"
and, of course;
"ONE PIECE…EXISTS!!!"
Loathe : Nothing in particular, although he really was sweetened considerably from initial impressions of him, like when he thought that himself ordered Ace after Teach, and refused to heed Shank's advice. He started as the real devil of the sea, and ended as everybody's favourite powerhouse pirate uncle. I'm still cool with that though.
Rating : 5/5
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I'm afraid I'm just as incapable of really breaking things into 'love' and 'loathe' as I am of giving a number score, but I feel like it would be nice to at least join in on the spirit of the thread by trying to share a few general thoughts. So, first, to spring-board off something someone else has said:
@.access:
…usually the "old strongest guy" is always a character that draws all the attention to him when he is around and I don't think WB was able to do that...
Honestly, I find myself agreeing with this, at least to an extent, but find that it's actually something I enjoyed about how the battle was done. First, of course, there was the simple fact that it was such a huge battle in the first place, and so it was fitting that no individual at all be able to completely control the spotlight. Beyond that, though, I feel it really helps to drive home a fairly central aspect of Whitebeard's character, coming at times even from his own mouth: namely, that for all his prodigious strength, he was ultimately, on the most basic level, a dying old man. The war was never about him, from the beginning. Time was passing, as ever, and the newer generations were gaining influence while the older ones were slowly losing relevance. Whitebeard knew and acknowledged these facts; at the same time, though, he remained the World's Strongest Man up to the moment of his death, a fact he well demonstrated during the war. On the whole, I think this dichotomy to his character – simultaneously a monstrously powerful beast and a simple, sick old man -- was executed quite well, and cast him in an interesting light.
The war aside, I suppose his other big moment, which most people seem to touch on in some way or other, was how he dealt with the Ace and Blackbeard situation. Honestly, I thought this was some incredible writing. For one thing, it masterfully created one of those great moments where new information causes an earlier scene to take on completely new meaning. In his first meeting with Shanks, Whitebeard came across as prideful, arrogant in his own power, unable or unwilling to heed Shanks' warning. The truth, however, makes things entirely different. The whole sequence, I believe, does a wonderful job of demonstrating his role as a father figure. For all his power, he was able to recognize that Blackbeard was a threat, and so out of concern for his son still living -- perhaps the only thing more important to him than vengeance for one dead -- he told Ace not to go after him. Yet, when Ace went anyway, he did not stop him, though he surely could have. His son, after all, was a man in his own right; and much as a father might wish to protect his son from all dangers, it cannot be his place to deny his son from doing what he feels is right. The most he can do, in a situation such as that, is to take the responsibility for his son's actions upon his own shoulders, regardless of cost to himself, or how it might make him appear. That, I feel, is what exemplified Whitebeard as a father figure: his willingness to do everything in his power to support his sons, while never impinging upon their worth as their own selves, nor denying them their right to live their life as they feel best fit.
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Great post panda
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How much time it took to write Panda?
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@Panda:
That, I feel, is what exemplified Whitebeard as a father figure: his willingness to do everything in his power to support his sons, while never impinging upon their worth as their own selves, nor denying them their right to live their life as they feel best fit.
Excellent analysis, Panda. I couldn't agree more with what you've said here.
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Oh… I'm goint to get some really stimulating comments over this, ain't I...
Sooo! Edward Newgate. Also known as Whitebeard.
Love: He is arguably badass... Objectively, probably the most badass person in the whole One Piece world, regardless of what overhypers been saying about the other Yonkou... Loved his powers, as well. I do like the characters that are pure destructive force.
Loathe: "Sigh" I don't want to do this. I might as well dress myself in a meat suit and release hungry dogs...
So, what do I loathe about Whitebeard... For starters, if you are woried about Teach and his case being weird, go with your sons to hunt him down, and don't let Ace take care of the matters by himself... He can invade Marineford, but not hunt one pirate down?
Next up... his carelessness. Honestly, with him throwing that many AoE around, may I just point out that Admirals saved Ace twice from his attacks? And don't give me that he knew that would happen, it still is careless. He also kinda had no other plan than "Charge!", which cost him guys, btw. Like Oars.
Next stop... a little bit too forgiving, in my opinion, but I don't mind that too much.
His endurance also got a little bit on my nerves, if only because it started to be a little bit of a bullshit, when he casualy shrugged of having half of his blown away, only to die because of bullets.
All of those are rather minor though. So, here comes the big one.
The "One Piece is real" speach. I hate it. And I know it's harping on man's romance, I really do, but it comes off, to me at least, simply as mean spirited. It actually worsens the situation of his people, worsens the situation of Islands he protected, worsens the situation of Fishmen island and Jimbei signitificantly, cause countless deaths across the globe... when Blackbeard acknoledges that you've done well, you should probaly rethink your actions.
All and all... just too much things for me to ignore.
Final judgment: 2/5
So after seeing your posts in general, I really wonder why you even read this manga, because it is clearly not aimed at you and Oda's ideals clearly differ HEAVILY from yours. I really find it hard to understand what someone like you finds compelling about this manga when your basic set of beliefs seems to conflict EVERYTHING this manga stands for
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Oyaji 5/5. How could it be any different.
That to say many of you guys opinions sound twisted to me. Particularly when you start evaluating Whitebeard by praising his strength. I can see how aspect of power may draw people, but really, is it the most worthy feature of a character?
Why I like Whitebeard, is often something you've mentioned you dislike him for. I love Whitebeard for not not interfering with 0 Ace's actions, when the later was rushing after Teach. I love him because he let his son act on his own moral judgement and hadn't tried to prevent Ace from fulfilling his duty just because of vague uneasy feeling. I so love Whitebeard for not limiting Ace's freedom of action that time. Sure he wanted to protect his sons, but they are pirates, freedom of greater value for them than safety.
As mentioned by other people - family thing. I do not agree with all those, who claim that this is small ambition. This is far, far greater than ambition of ruling over somebody or something.
God archetype - Loving, Forgiving Father. Splendid and interesting execution of that archetype on authors part.
Saviour - it has already been stated, that he protected many islands. But, as asserted by Ace, he was also saviour of his children, and in very moral sense too. He basically gave them place in the world and love. In case you guys haven't realise, most of his children weren't living very good lives, both in moral sense and not fulfilling, they were pursuing hollow things like fame (instead of acceptance). Whitebeard offered moral guidance.
Personality - Whitebeard, however isn't niceness incarnated, he is stubborn old dude, who drinks too much and refuses to take proper care of himself (not atypical for old guys). He is very arrogant and treats younger people as brats. That makes him very human and relateable.
Not being all powerful - that's a good thing, he certainly is overwhelmingly powerful, but at the same time he is ill and his abilities are limited. That makes things much more interesting.
Asserting Hope - what his final speech was all about. Most people at that time couldn't understand it, but there was certainly those, who got the message.
Great design - just look at those moustaches (also he doesn't actually have a beard… ha ha). I'm also a fan of blade on stick weapons, and his bisento is awesome.
Over-the-top - he is about 4 meters tall, ridiculously manly and just remember the counts on wound he received during the war. That is clearly brand of One Piece.edit:
Great post Panda (I've only seen it one I've posted mine). -
Love: Easily the biggest "surrogate father" pirate captain in the entire series. This guy is so legendary yet so caring for his own crew that he instills true heartfelt loyalty among his crew, compared to other captains that typically are only captain because they are strong and/or instill fear. Whitebeard himself takes himself very seriously in this role–even when he was impaled by Squardo, rather than be angry at his foolish betrayal, he reacted as a heartbroken father which in turn absolutely shamed Squardo into weeping with regret. Virtually his entire crew is willing to die for both the captain and each other, which is good for the crew's sake because he's a very level headed sort that rarely goes out looking for trouble and needlessly risking the lives of his crew. This coolheaded warmth of Whitebeard's also seems to have made him among the most trustworthy among the more honorable contemporary pirates equal if not greater in strenghth than himself, such as Shanks and Rayleigh
That said, Whitebeard isn't a softy--he has a crusty old man exterior and has enough sense to dish out some tough love when necessary. He's captain of a notorious pirate crew led by one of the Four Emperors that controls a quarter of the entire New World seas and there are many rivals that would either like to claim his territory or gain untold prestige by defeating him in combat (by fair means or foul). As such, he has a stipulation that killing a fellow crew member was punishable by death. The rule is as much a security measure as it is a serious act of personal betrayal to both him and the crew. Whitebeard's fatherly love isn't cheap, and when a crew member accepts to become one of his "sons" he also accepts his brothers (and sisters? While there doesn't appear to be any, WB doesn't seem to be the sort to discriminate the offer), and fatally turning on them is understandably an unforgivable act.
Lastly, he's an absolute powerhouse. Oda didn't shy away from presenting Whitebeard as an absolute force of nature, from his fearsome fruit ability to his superb physical fighting prowess--all the while a shadow of his former self and a mere glimpse of his legendary prime. Throughout Marineford, he shrugs off getting impaled and doesn't let a little thing like getting half his head getting blown/melted off stop him in his furious rage. Sure it's ridiculously overdone and stretched suspension belief at least a little bit, but because he was Whitebeard you could believe he was capable of such feats before eventually succumbing to his injuries. It also did a great job at actually gauging how strong the Four Emperors were to be in the New World.
Loathe: Honestly don't really. One could argue that letting Ace to go off to take down Blackbeard was foolish, but Whitebeard didn't seem to know about BB's new fruit and Ace was pretty obviously capable at taking him out with ease otherwise, so no real foul there. I also get the feeling Ace had done this sort of work before.
One might assume that Whitebeard's critical health and age-related condition, to the point where he's surrounded by nurses and spends much of his idle time being hooked up with IV and oxygen tubes, may have been exacerbated by the barrels of booze he drinks on a regular basis. But the dude is a giant and most important of all a pirate–if he were to give up grog he might as well retire from piracy altogether. Plus I have a feeling it helped ease the pain he might have been in otherwise.
Even his death wasn't an issue. He went out like a badass and he lived a very full and proud life and raised some pretty honorable pirates to take over in his stead. I guess the only issues are that Blackbeard desecrated his corpse and stole his fruit ability and that the current Whitebeard pirates don't have a true protege to allow the crew to maintain Emperor status.
5/5
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So after seeing your posts in general, I really wonder why you even read this manga, because it is clearly not aimed at you and Oda's ideals clearly differ HEAVILY from yours. I really find it hard to understand what someone like you finds compelling about this manga when your basic set of beliefs seems to conflict EVERYTHING this manga stands for
I sometimes think he's reading One Piece from the perspective of Akainu.
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So after seeing your posts in general, I really wonder why you even read this manga, because it is clearly not aimed at you and Oda's ideals clearly differ HEAVILY from yours. I really find it hard to understand what someone like you finds compelling about this manga when your basic set of beliefs seems to conflict EVERYTHING this manga stands for
One Piece is a story that can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. There is no set definition of how a theme or moral of a story or a character is. There might be a majority who agree on a common denominator, but that doesn't make it official. If his ideals are different from Oda's, then so what? It's not like Oda doesn't have different ideals from other people and probably other mangakas.
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So after seeing your posts in general, I really wonder why you even read this manga, because it is clearly not aimed at you and Oda's ideals clearly differ HEAVILY from yours. I really find it hard to understand what someone like you finds compelling about this manga when your basic set of beliefs seems to conflict EVERYTHING this manga stands for
I find it almost offensive, you know.
Why would I be incapable of critising something I like?
Why would I be incapable of liking something I don't agree with?
And the hell you are doing, deciding that there is only one way to interpret a work of art?
Seriously, man. That's a rather narrow minded point of view, don't you think?
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I sometimes think he's reading One Piece from the perspective of Akainu.
Just so.
Well, I lied. I read it from the perspective of people of the world, as well as the marines. Sometimes.
Because I can, and why the hell not, if it makes for interesting intepretation and discussion? Don't dismiss my theories, and opinions. By all means, disagree with them, and challenge them, but don't dismiss them.
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One Piece is a story that can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. There is no set definition of how a theme or moral of a story or a character is. There might be a majority who agree on a common denominator, but that doesn't make it official. If his ideals are different from Oda's, then so what? It's not like Oda doesn't have different ideals from other people and probably other mangakas.
Why, thank you. I appreciate it. I really do.
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@Panda:
Honestly, I find myself agreeing with this, at least to an extent, but find that it's actually something I enjoyed about how the battle was done. First, of course, there was the simple fact that it was such a huge battle in the first place, and so it was fitting that no individual at all be able to completely control the spotlight. Beyond that, though, I feel it really helps to drive home a fairly central aspect of Whitebeard's character, coming at times even from his own mouth: namely, that for all his prodigious strength, he was ultimately, on the most basic level, a dying old man. The war was never about him, from the beginning. Time was passing, as ever, and the newer generations were gaining influence while the older ones were slowly losing relevance. Whitebeard knew and acknowledged these facts; at the same time, though, he remained the World's Strongest Man up to the moment of his death, a fact he well demonstrated during the war. On the whole, I think this dichotomy to his character – simultaneously a monstrously powerful beast and a simple, sick old man -- was executed quite well, and cast him in an interesting light.
To be honest, when I wrote that I thought about it myself. Thought that WB not being the center of attention and just wacthing things for most of the time actually fit his personality, the place he decided to have (instead of being the next king himself, support someone else from the new generation) and the meaning behind the war.
But even seeing things like that, it doesn't exactly add anything to WB as character, it adds to Oda's writing - assuming it really was deliberate - but that's not what I was judging there.
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And the hell you are doing, deciding that there is only one way to interpret a work of art?
Even if you there are infinite possible and equally valid interpretations, there still are interpretations that plainly suck. Some interpretations are just flat and some contradict basic ideas, work they are interpreting is build around.
You know some people do interpret "Year 1984" as advocating for liberal capitalism.
You are mistaken multiple possibilities with "anything goes". To give you a metaphor (and a hyperbole), you can build a house in multiple way starting with the design to construction techniques. However if you star by putting roof on the ground upside down circulate everything with a stairs and put bunch of doors and windows on the top, it won't be a house, no matter how hard you would persist to call it so.I have nothing against seeing your posts around the forum. People are making excellent replies to them.
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So after seeing your posts in general, I really wonder why you even read this manga, because it is clearly not aimed at you and Oda's ideals clearly differ HEAVILY from yours. I really find it hard to understand what someone like you finds compelling about this manga when your basic set of beliefs seems to conflict EVERYTHING this manga stands for
There's Akainu, i guess that's worth for him.
Love: His mustache, what glorious mustache he has.
Loathe: My mustache will never be like his.
5/5
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Even if you there are infinite possible and equally valid interpretations, there still are interpretations that plainly suck. Some interpretations are just flat and some contradict basic ideas, work they are interpreting is build around.
You know some people do interpret "Year 1984" as advocating for liberal capitalism.
You are mistaken multiple possibilities with "anything goes". To give you a metaphor (and a hyperbole), you can build a house in multiple way starting with the design to construction techniques. However if you star by putting roof on the ground upside down circulate everything with a stairs and put bunch of doors and windows on the top, it won't be a house, no matter how hard you would persist to call it so.I have nothing against seeing your posts around the forum. People are making excellent replies to them.
I have annoying tendency of not letting things go. One of my many flaws.
And, regardless of what I have been showing, I know when I'm being unreasonable. And I try to not be. I sometimes get carried away, and fail at that.
Disregarding that, I would like to think that my interpretations do not suck. Not all of them anyway.
And I admit, I was annoyed by the sugestion that I cannot enjoy One Piece, and that I should not read it based on my different interpretations of the characters. I'm not saying anything goes. I'm saying that the art is subjective, and can be interepreted as such. With more than one interpretation.
There's Akainu, i guess that's worth for him.
Yes, I happen to like character everyone hates. It works well with machiavellan side of my personality. And?
Damn, I must look shallow in your eyes.
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Its Whitebeard. 5/5
Oh okay then, I'll write some more.
Love: Remember how I dismissed Rayleigh as a boring character, because he was just the "old man, who is cool and really strong" stereotype and nothing else? How having limited paneltime is no excuse for being boring?
I present thee: Whitebeard.
Whitebeard was the strongest man in the whole world, and he had tonnes of strength feats- but thats not why we remember him. Thats not why we love him. The reason those moments had the impact they had was that they were fueled by Whitebeards burning, fatherly compassion. Throwing an Admiral around is neat and all, but when you do in silent fury at your sons death, it becomes something special. A quake-punch is only as cool as the raw emotion powering it.
Whitebeard only had one real arc to show off, and he used his time extremely well.Loathe: I think Darth has a fair point about the One Piece speech causing collateral damage.
I thought he did use Haki on Aokiji though…
You remember correctly, he did use Haki- Aokiji just made a hole in his body, to escape the spear.
The "One Piece is real" speach. I hate it. And I know it's harping on man's romance, I really do, but it comes off, to me at least, simply as mean spirited. It actually worsens the situation of his people, worsens the situation of Islands he protected, worsens the situation of Fishmen island and Jimbei signitificantly, cause countless deaths across the globe… when Blackbeard acknoledges that you've done well, you should probaly rethink your actions.
Hm, you're right that it probably caused an increase in piracy overall. Thats a valid point. Though I'm uncertain how exactly it worsened the situation for his protected islands? They'd probably get targeted regardless of his speech.
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@The:
You remember correctly, he did use Haki- Aokiji just made a hole in his body, to escape the spear.
It's nice to be right every once in a while.
@The:
Hm, you're right that it probably caused an increase in piracy overall. Thats a valid point. Though I'm uncertain how exactly it worsened the situation for his protected islands? They'd probably get targeted regardless of his speech.
My logic was this: Pirates aiming for One Piece must go to the New World. So that is a bother to the Fishman Island, at the very least, and then in the New World… My thought process was: Most pirates get their resources by pillaging. In the New World, it is reasonable to assume that you have limited options: Either you go after Goverment protected islands, and you don't really want to get on the bad side of the Marines, go after islands protected by Yonkou... or you go after those unprotected by either side. From the perspective of rookie pirates coming to the New World, going after ex-Whitebeard islands is as better play then going after other Islands, because you could logicaly assume that those islands, trusting in to power of Whitebeard flag, did not have any powerful hidden aces, like countries like Wano and other indepedent countries probably do.
It's just a speculation, but I think it's solid enough. Of course, since Blackbeard took hold of most of Whitebeard islands, the point is kinda moot.
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I have annoying tendency of not letting things go. One of my many flaws.
And, regardless of what I have been showing, I know when I'm being unreasonable. And I try to not be. I sometimes get carried away, and fail at that.
Disregarding that, I would like to think that my interpretations do not suck. Not all of them anyway.
And I admit, I was annoyed by the sugestion that I cannot enjoy One Piece, and that I should not read it based on my different interpretations of the characters. I'm not saying anything goes. I'm saying that the art is subjective, and can be interepreted as such. With more than one interpretation.
Yes, I happen to like character everyone hates. It works well with machiavellan side of my personality. And?
Damn, I must look shallow in your eyes.
Well from formal side of the things your interpretation do not suck. Everything is clear, your premises are quite visible and your conclusions match your premises. It's obvious you are aware of your own premises, you do not limit yourself to surface, and in that regard you are quite sophisticated.
I haven't read all of your interpretations, so I can't tell if there are any passable among them, but given what I see from your profile of thinking, it's actually possible.You are not very Machiavellian, you are far too idealistic (in popular sense of the world, not referring to your ontological stance) for that (again, Machiavelli was very much idealist, ideals he is known for expressing just weren't pretty ones, so people confused him (and possibly he himself) for a person with pragmatic approach. So maybe you actually are Machiavellian, but Machiavelli- sort of Machiavellian and not the type that is usually put under that denominator).
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It's nice to be right every once in a while.
My logic was this: Pirates aiming for One Piece must go to the New World. So that is a bother to the Fishman Island, at the very least, and then in the New World… My thought process was: Most pirates get their resources by pillaging. In the New World, it is reasonable to assume that you have limited options: Either you go after Goverment protected islands, and you don't really want to get on the bad side of the Marines, go after islands protected by Yonkou... or you go after those unprotected by either side. From the perspective of rookie pirates coming to the New World, going after ex-Whitebeard islands is as better play then going after other Islands, because you could logicaly assume that those islands, trusting in to power of Whitebeard flag, did not have any powerful hidden aces, like countries like Wano and other indepedent countries probably do.
It's just a speculation, but I think it's solid enough. Of course, since Blackbeard took hold of most of Whitebeard islands, the point is kinda moot.
To be honest, I think that is thinking about things a bit too much.
We are not talking about a real world where acts will have much more consequences than what we can think of in a first moment. Was it reality maybe I would agree with you on WB speech turning out to bring more problems to the world. But it is not, it's a fictional world and the consequences will only amount to those the author consider and I seriously seriously doubt Oda thought about things to that point.But even if things turn out to be like you are depicting, he is a pirate, isn't he? He did the same as Roger. Roger's death was a curse to the world, we know through Ace flashbacks how much the regular people hated Roger and how his dying speech just made everything worse for everyone but the pirates. He is a god for the pirates, but regular people suffer in the hands of pirates and the Great Age of Pirates turn out to be a terrible age for the world population. But Roger, WB, pirates don't care about that, even the good pirates in this manga are no heroes (although we all know in the end things will change when the WG falls and the world is freed from whatever). They don't care if people overseas are suffering… heck, WB caused major tsunamis around the world with his quakes in Marineford.
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Well from formal side of the things your interpretation do not suck. Everything is clear, your premises are quite visible and your conclusions match your premises. It's obvious you are aware of your own premises, you do not limit yourself to surface, and in that regard you are quite sophisticated.
I haven't read all of your interpretations, so I can't tell if there are any passable among them, but given what I see from your profile of thinking, it's actually possible.Thank you. It's always nice to hear that I don't completly fail. :happy:
I don't always manage to get my exact point across, I think, because of english being my second language only, and I lack a bit of proper wording for some of my more complicated thoughts…
You are not very Machiavellian, you are far too idealistic (in popular sense of the world, not referring to your ontological stance) for that (again, Machiavelli was very much idealist, ideals he is known for expressing just weren't pretty ones, so people confused him (and possibly he himself) for a person with pragmatic approach. So maybe you actually are Machiavellian, but Machiavelli- sort of Machiavellian and not the type that is usually put under that denominator).
Agreed on me being idealistic. And I hold the true Machiavellian philosophy close to my heart, not the popular misinterpretation. Both Prince and Discourses are actually quite idealistic, I know, but at the same time… well, they are some truths to it, and it's not a bad philosophy to have, to be honest. I know some worse ones...
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@.access:
To be honest, I think that is thinking about things a bit too much.
We are not talking about a real world where acts will have much more consequences than what we can think of in a first moment. Was it reality maybe I would agree with you on WB speech turning out to bring more problems to the world. But it is not, it's a fictional world and the consequences will only amount to those the author consider and I seriously seriously doubt Oda thought about things to that point.Honestly? I think he might have. Don't quote me on that, but I think he might exactly know what the consequeces are. It makes the story a little bit less black and white, and therefore more interesting, so it would've been a briliant move on his part if he did.
@.access:
But even if things turn out to be like you are depicting, he is a pirate, isn't he? He did the same as Roger. Roger's death was a curse to the world, we know through Ace flashbacks how much the regular people hated Roger and how his dying speech just made everything worse for everyone but the pirates. He is a god for the pirates, but regular people suffer in the hands of pirates and the Great Age of Pirates turn out to be a terrible age for the world population. But Roger, WB, pirates don't care about that, even the good pirates in this manga are no heroes (although we all know in the end things will change when the WG falls and the world is freed from whatever). They don't care if people overseas are suffering… heck, WB caused major tsunamis around the world with his quakes in Marineford.
That's one of the reason I think underlaying motives of conflict between different philosophies does exist in One Piece as manga. On the one hand we have dreams of man, a certain romantic theme, which people live without regrets, and are free of most of modern day worries. On the other hand, we have justice, or the reality, as I would like to call it here. Those deal with consequences of people living the dreams. Both stances appear valid, in my opinion, I just choose justice over dreams. And both sides have their extremes.
That actually makes me think that there are moments in this manga that we are not exactly suppose to route for protagonist and pirates, but that's overthinking it.
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Now that I think about it, one of Whitebeard's flaws is that he never designated a sucesor. His subordinates weren't expecting him to stay in the island, but when that happened nobody assumed leadership.
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Thank you. It's always nice to hear that I don't completly fail. :happy:
I don't always manage to get my exact point across, I think, because of english being my second language only, and I lack a bit of proper wording for some of my more complicated thoughts…
Agreed on me being idealistic. And I hold the true Machiavellian philosophy close to my heart, not the popular misinterpretation. Both Prince and Discourses are actually quite idealistic, I know, but at the same time... well, they are some truths to it, and it's not a bad philosophy to have, to be honest. I know some worse ones...
We'll English is not my first language either, but I see absolutely no problem with your wording.
You sometimes amuse me to no end, I wonder if you see irony if your own words, if not I'll let you scratch your head on that.To other matter. I think You guys overestimate effects of Whitebeard's speech. It's somehow hard to evaluate as few things happened simultaneously. Balance of power have been shaken, it inevitably had to result in rise of opportunists. Marines had been weakened by the War, that meant, even if morale rose, they were less effective in their work. There is also value of Whiebeard's death itself. He was huge factor stopping many pirates from even trying with his sheer existence. That was a huge factor in whole case, and outcome being rise of piracy was mentioned even before the War. Furthermore, relatively unknown earlier Balckbeard rose to power, and that had to be inspiration for others.
All things considered, whatever Whitebeard said wouldn't cause much of additional damaged. The situation isn't parallel at all to Rogers death. -
We'll English is not my first language either, but I see absolutely no problem with your wording.
You sometimes amuse me to no end, I wonder if you see irony if your own words, if not I'll let you scratch your head on that.I sometimes do. Not always, but sometimes.
To other matter. I think You guys overestimate effects of Whitebeard's speech. It's somehow hard to evaluate as few things happened simultaneously. Balance of power have been shaken, it inevitably had to result in rise of opportunists. Marines had been weakened by the War, that meant, even if morale rose, they were less effective in their work. There is also value of Whiebeard's death itself. He was huge factor stopping many pirates from even trying with his sheer existence. That was a huge factor in whole case, and outcome being rise of piracy was mentioned even before the War. Furthermore, relatively unknown earlier Balckbeard rose to power, and that had to be inspiration for others.
All things considered, whatever Whitebeard said wouldn't cause much of additional damaged. The situation isn't parallel at all to Rogers death.My point here would be that it is threated as a big deal in universe, and not just confirmation of Roger's words… All and all, either we go that the speach had very little effect on pirate community, which lessens the meaning of it, or that it actually had quite large effect, but also with negative side-effects. I personaly would go with the latter. Sooo... I dunno. You might be wrong, you might be right.
However, I would still say that it was ill considered of him to do, considering Fishman Island, and the problems caused by the original speach given by Roger. Seems a little bit unfair to Jimbei. But that's just my opinion.