However, this was one of the clearest and quickest beatings in One Piece yet.
Indeed it is, along with this -
!
However, this was one of the clearest and quickest beatings in One Piece yet.
Indeed it is, along with this -
!
If Law had killed Caeser earlier, Doflamingo would have put all his focus on protecting the only remaining production facility he has left. Law has so far needed Caeser to stall time. It's been pretty obvious for a while now. I don't know why this is being discussed as a flaw in the story.
That's tacting a non living ship not teleporting a live person who can climb clouds with stings
That's tacting a non living ship not teleporting a live person who can climb clouds with stings
Huh? What are you talking about??
Why is DD worried by kaidou when he have the Whole Goverment on his side.
Why is DD worried by kaidou when he have the Whole Goverment on his side.
that's why they call him Kaidou of the beasts also he's "strongest creature in the world"
that's why they call him Kaidou of the beasts also he's "strongest creature in the world"
Even Whitebeard with all his allies wasnt able to defeat the marines, and dd not only having marines on their side but also the World Goverment…
Didnt the Gorosei said they will kill shanks if he makes problem? When they are able to kill whitebeard and shanks , kaidou is the least problem
@Kyoji:
"Law's plan" my ass.
Why the hell did Law "ask" Dofla to quit Shichibukai? Just to avoid that the Marine HQ would "help" him? If the main goal was to put Kaidou against Dofla by stoping smile production, it wouldn't be more simple just kill Caesar?
if he never quit being Shichibukai .. maybe WG will help him from Kaidou
but if he quit he would be enemy of WG & Marine also
think of being attacked by Yonko & WG same time
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Even Whitebeard with all his allies wasnt able to defeat the marines, and dd not only having marines on their side but also the World Goverment…
Didnt the Gorosei said they will kill shanks if he makes problem? When they are able to kill whitebeard and shanks , kaidou is the least problem
until now we don't know nothing about kaidou (and big mom) how strong ? how much allies has ? how much commander ? which territory he protect ?
and for WB he got old and ill that's why he take him down on MarineFord…
Even Whitebeard with all his allies wasnt able to defeat the marines, and dd not only having marines on their side but also the World Goverment…
Didnt the Gorosei said they will kill shanks if he makes problem? When they are able to kill whitebeard and shanks , kaidou is the least problem
oh no! Kaido is coming after the Pirate DD! assemble all the marines! call other 6 shibukai! get the 3 admirals! head to Marine Ford! we must protect an ex-celestial Pirate underworld Pin no matter what! we shall not fail no matter how many we scarifice!
Indeed it is, along with this -
! http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l636/MasterKingJC/Voila_Capture141-1.png
Yes Luffy vs Kizaru is also similar. It's happened to them all really.
It's not the same. Luffy was reckless because he's an idiot and also knew that he was stronger that Caesar, which explains part of his recklesness..
Why do people consider that Luffy was reckless against Ceasar in the first fight? He came at the dude punched him the entire time while avoiding what he could. No one is going to assume that he's going down because of an invisible move. Really don't see how he was idiot or reckless on this one.
Didnt the Gorosei said they will kill shanks if he makes problem? When they are able to kill whitebeard and shanks , kaidou is the least problem
When was this again? I don't remember Gorosei saying they'll kill Shanks.
I wonder if Doflamingo has been informed that Burgess is fighting in the tournament, and if he has what he intends to do about it, or if he'd rather just sit on the information.
And Sanji put in some good effort, but Doflamingo is just out of his league. There's no shame in losing to such a powerful character, Laws about to get the same treatment. He might escape Doflamingo's strings a couple of times thanks to his Hax fruit, but Law will get caught. Wonder what will happen to him when that happens…
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
When was this again? I don't remember Gorosei saying they'll kill Shanks.
They never did, Yonkou's are untouchable, and the Gorosei would rather not mess with them because of world balance.
They never did, Yonkou's are untouchable, and the Gorosei would rather not mess with them because of world balance.
It's not that they can't kill them, because they y'know, basically killed Whitebeard.
They have nothing to gain from the chaos, it's in their favor to have four pirates in perpetual Cold War with eachother.
Yeah, and I don't think that the WG is going to help Dofla once they figure out WHY he's being targeted by Kaidou.
@Monkey:
It's not that they can't kill them, because they y'know, basically killed Whitebeard.
They have nothing to gain from the chaos, it's in their favor to have four pirates in perpetual Cold War with eachother.
So why did they conspire to kill Whitebeard then? Was extinguishing Roger's bloodline that important?
@Thousand:
So why did they conspire to kill Whitebeard then? Was extinguishing Roger's bloodline that important?
LOL yes. Sengoku explicitly stated that Ace was an idiot for thinking that any of the other WB Pirates actually wanted Whitebeard to be the Pirate King instead of him. Ace was always the target. Seeing as how the marines suffered disastrous losses during the Battle of Marineford, it's likely that the fight against Whitebeard was simply an inevitability that they accepted, rather than a plot to kill a Yonkou.
Yeah, and I don't think that the WG is going to help Dofla once they figure out WHY he's being targeted by Kaidou.
But then why didn't he tell the WG about Dofy's arrangement with Kaidou or at very least Fujitora during their fight?
Even if he did find sanctuary with his allies he'd be in a gilded cage unable to move freely, as it is now he has no real enemies
But if Kaido gets on his case it'd be captain Hook and the crocodile on repeat
@Thousand:
So why did they conspire to kill Whitebeard then? Was extinguishing Roger's bloodline that important?
They didn't conspire to kill Whitebeard, what are you talking about?
I really wouldn't be surprised if the Elder Stars were utterly furious at Ace's capture, because they knew what Whitebeard would do.
Is it to late to return to sender guys? Ah crap i guess it's war then
@wolfwoof:
Is it to late to return to sender guys? Ah crap i guess it's war then
"Great, now we'll HAVE to promote the crazy admiral."
Wait, I just thought of something… Back at Jaya, Blackbeard wanted to capture Luffy instead of Ace, which would have allowed him to become a Shichibukai and recruit the ID prisoners... But he wouldn't have been able to kill Whitebeard or secure the Gura Gura no Mi, which I thought was part of his plan. I guess it wasn't part of his plan? Or he was expecting Ace to catch up with him sooner or later, so it didn't really matter? Or he was planning to kill Whitebeard on his own? I have no idea how he would have accomplished that without the aid of the marines, LOL.
Or maybe it was just fate. :ninja:
Wait, I just thought of something… Back at Jaya, Blackbeard wanted to capture Luffy instead of Ace, which would have allowed him to become a Shichibukai and recruit the ID prisoners... But he wouldn't have been able to kill Whitebeard or secure the Gura Gura no Mi, which I thought was part of his plan. I guess it wasn't part of his plan? Or he was expecting Ace to catch up with him sooner or later, so it didn't really matter? Or he was planning to kill Whitebeard on his own? I have no idea how he would have accomplished that without the aid of the marines, LOL.
Or maybe it was just fate. :ninja:
I always thought his plan was to capture Luffy, then regardless, Ace would come(it would just give him another reason, with Luffy being his brother and all). Him capturing Luffy wouldn't change the fact that Ace would be coming after him if he already killed Tacht. Then he'd still get the Gura Gura.
Wait, I just thought of something… Back at Jaya, Blackbeard wanted to capture Luffy instead of Ace, which would have allowed him to become a Shichibukai and recruit the ID prisoners... But he wouldn't have been able to kill Whitebeard or secure the Gura Gura no Mi, which I thought was part of his plan. I guess it wasn't part of his plan? Or he was expecting Ace to catch up with him sooner or later, so it didn't really matter? Or he was planning to kill Whitebeard on his own? I have no idea how he would have accomplished that without the aid of the marines, LOL.
Or maybe it was just fate. :ninja:
Yeah, I think Blackbeard is very flexible with his planning and just takes things in stride. He has goals, but he doesn't set his plans in stone.
Stealing DF powers was part of BB's plan all along.
The Gura Gura no Mi was just opportunism, just like Ace in Banaro.
Wait, I just thought of something… Back at Jaya, Blackbeard wanted to capture Luffy instead of Ace, which would have allowed him to become a Shichibukai and recruit the ID prisoners... But he wouldn't have been able to kill Whitebeard or secure the Gura Gura no Mi, which I thought was part of his plan. I guess it wasn't part of his plan? Or he was expecting Ace to catch up with him sooner or later, so it didn't really matter? Or he was planning to kill Whitebeard on his own? I have no idea how he would have accomplished that without the aid of the marines, LOL.
Or maybe it was just fate. :ninja:
He is truly the Moriarty of the OP world
I agree and rather than refer to CP9 I would compare this to Luffy's, Law's and Smoker's first encounter with CC when they all lost. But that doesn't mean Sanji is capable to defeat Dofy just as he couldn't stop Vergo but he is definitely able to stand his ground for a while.
In my opinion Law also won't be able to win against Dofy simply because he's already exhausted and he's speech and the circumstances foretell a bad ending. Especially Law's break up with the SH is an invitation for them to prove him that actually it didn't matter what his plans were. If Dofy takes him hostage it's a chance to save him despite his betrayal, if Law wins or escapes it's a chance for them to change his mind.
Nevertheless, I believe Law is one who's going to defeat Dofy. He simply is going to need a few attempt just as Luffy with Croc.On the other side, I am not sure against whom Luffy is supposed to win especially after the extent of power it took him to overwhelm a scientist. In my opinion the best case scenario would be if Luffy can win against Burgess and Zoro has to hold off Fujitora since the admiral's power is a perfect challenge for Zoro who is well rested because he didn't get into the tournament.
Stand his ground for a while? Christ on bike. The fight lasted a minute tops. No one is expecting Sanji to beat DD, if Sanji landed a hit on DD and DD said you're strong and proceed to try and kill Sanji, I won't complain. If you compare it to Luffy's first defeat to CC, 1) Luffy wasn't serious 2) Luffy landed 2 or 3 punches 3) Luffy even dodge that gastanet attack. The scenario is not similar at all.
DD dodged Sanji attack while laughing, then blocked an entire barage. The only part of that fight that showed Sanji's strength was that DD was suprised Sanji recovered from the 5 thread attack quickly. The rest of the fight was like whitebeard and that VA Giant in Marineford.
Why do people consider that Luffy was reckless against Ceasar in the first fight? He came at the dude punched him the entire time while avoiding what he could. No one is going to assume that he's going down because of an invisible move. Really don't see how he was idiot or reckless on this one.
Because he should have been more careful against such an opponent instead of going head first, think about tactics later. Luffy hitting him constantly and evading his attacks shows just how superior he was to Caesar so him getting caught in Caesar's attack is IMO carelessness as he should of been more careful during the fight. Esp the way he got caught…
I wonder if Doflamingo has been informed that Burgess is fighting in the tournament, and if he has what he intends to do about it, or if he'd rather just sit on the information.
And Sanji put in some good effort, but Doflamingo is just out of his league. There's no shame in losing to such a powerful character, Laws about to get the same treatment. He might escape Doflamingo's strings a couple of times thanks to his Hax fruit, but Law will get caught. Wonder what will happen to him when that happens…
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
They never did, Yonkou's are untouchable, and the Gorosei would rather not mess with them because of world balance.
Law is about to get a massive beating, agreed. I still don't understand how he managed to do everything that he did last chapter after being a punching bag for Doflamingo and an Admiral for as long as he did… He shouldn't have much if any energy left for this fight, while DD doesn't have a scratch. It's going to be brutal...
Why wasn't there an attempt to kill Shanks at marineford, if the marines had the capability?
Law said in Punk Hazard that all pirates in the new world either work for or fight against the four emperors. There are far more than four groups of pirates at war, and obviously the top four must have some form of leverage, be it power or whatever. It doesn't benefit the marines to leave them alone because of this, especially since they all have a common enemy in the marines, not sure what kind of crazy moon logic would lead someone to this idea.
If Shanks and three other pirates are the strongest four, eliminating one clearly means its replacement is not as powerful. If there are stronger pirates just sitting around, why are there only four emperors? Blackbeard is the obvious exception because he was powerdul enough to kill Whitebeard himself. Just for reiteration, Whitebeard nor Shanks were killed by marines, and leaving pirate emperors running around is completely inconsistent with "absolute justice."
Y'see, that's just dumb to me, if anything Nami should have higher authority than Sanji (as people were speculating in that other thread). Why you do this Oda.
Especially since Nami orders Sanji around and not the other way around
Am I missing something or didn't Nami have the executive decision to leave in this case? She didn't consult Sanji. Swirly mostly being used to describe the person who'd take the brunt of dangerous shit coming their way.
Am I missing something or didn't Nami have the executive decision to leave in this case? She didn't consult Sanji. Swirly mostly being used to describe the person who'd take the brunt of dangerous shit coming their way.
Yeah I guess we could view it that way too.
Or like, she was subtly making him the scapegoat for the decision to abandon Luffy.
@CCC:
Errr… not quite. She was telling Law they DIDN'T need the whole crew, by changing the name of the crew from "Strawhat" (representing Luffy) to "Swirlystraw" (representing Sanji, who would lead them if they fled right there and then. Which they did).
Law was telling Nami and the others they should go to Zou which they are because of them being targeted. But Nami yelled out "spiralhat crew are setting sail!" (or whatever she said). Basically what she is saying Sanji is their leader.
Btw where did you get Straw from? Will we ever know what it said? haha
There are just some situations where Nami is good at leading, and others where she isn't.
Law was telling Nami and the others they should go to Zou which they are because of them being targeted. But Nami yelled out "spiralhat crew are setting sail!" (or whatever she said). Basically what she is saying Sanji is their leader.
Btw where did you get Straw from? Will we ever know what it said? haha
…
She initially refused Law's request to flee because she didn't want to leave Luffy and the others behind ("We're the STRAWHAT crew after all [and Luffy is the one wearing our namesake]").
But then Fujitora starts attacking and DD is rushing them, so she changes her mind and says "Fuck it. Forget Luffy and his strawhat. We're the swirlystraws now, which means we don't owe anything to our namesake so let's get out of here."
Here's the language as I explained it:
@CCC:
Mugi = wheat or barley
wara = straw, in general
Mugiwara = wheat or barley straw
Mugiwara boushi = straw hat (traditionally made of wheat straw)
Mugiwara Ichimi = Strawhat Crew (the literal "hat" is omitted but understood)Nami's line in this chapter is "Guruwara," or literally, "curly/swirly straw."
It's admittedly a stylistic decision to go with "Curlyhat" like MP and MS, but you definitely can't say that I'm flat-out wrong. Only perhaps overly literal.
Law was telling Nami and the others they should go to Zou which they are because of them being targeted. But Nami yelled out "spiralhat crew are setting sail!" (or whatever she said). Basically what she is saying Sanji is their leader.
Btw where did you get Straw from? Will we ever know what it said? haha
Soooo you don't know who you're talking to huh.
@CCC:
Here's the language as I explained it:
So… They're not even the Straw Hat Pirates!?
My life is a lie.
Why wasn't there an attempt to kill Shanks at marineford, if the marines had the capability?
Law said in Punk Hazard that all pirates in the new world either work for or fight against the four emperors. There are far more than four groups of pirates at war, and obviously the top four must have some form of leverage, be it power or whatever. It doesn't benefit the marines to leave them alone because of this, especially since they all have a common enemy in the marines, not sure what kind of crazy moon logic would lead someone to this idea.
If Shanks and three other pirates are the strongest four, eliminating one clearly means its replacement is not as powerful. If there are stronger pirates just sitting around, why are there only four emperors? Blackbeard is the obvious exception because he was powerdul enough to kill Whitebeard himself. Just for reiteration, Whitebeard nor Shanks were killed by marines, and leaving pirate emperors running around is completely inconsistent with "absolute justice."
You must've been reading something else, Two Piece fan fiction perhaps? Because in OP, BB did not take down WB by himself. Go re-read it yourself if you don't believe me.
But going on your other question, why didn't the Marines go after Shanks? I think the Marines were only prepared to take on one Yonkou force. Coupled with BB's treachery, the Hearts Pirates and Shanks' force sudden appearance, I think it would've been total chaos to fight on their home turf (which was being leveled in the war) against all these forces simultaneously. No new allies were suddenly joining the Marines side. So it would've been stacked against them. But you're right, odd that the Marines seem to be leaving the Yonkou to their own devices. Then again, as it remains, we only see the story following the SH crew and not other entities statuses in depth. So we don't know if the Marines are actively trying to take down the Yonkou.
Did you read the original in that case? Curly/Swirly/Spiral mean the same to me and makes sense, but whether hat or straw was used idk. I understand your concept but we shall see in the Anime what they use.
Why wasn't there an attempt to kill Shanks at marineford, if the marines had the capability?
Because there was nothing to be gained from that but at best a phyrric victory?
It's all there in the manga dude, so i don't get where that line of questioning comes from
Law said in Punk Hazard that all pirates in the new world either work for or fight against the four emperors. There are far more than four groups of pirates at war, and obviously the top four must have some form of leverage, be it power or whatever. It doesn't benefit the marines to leave them alone because of this, especially since they all have a common enemy in the marines, not sure what kind of crazy moon logic would lead someone to this idea.
It's been established that they don't have the power to take and hold the new world under their wings
And that the emperors for all the bad that can be said about them do keep a semblance of peace in there
Hence it's better for the world peace that the emperors get to keep their territories and occupy themselves with in-fighting
If Shanks and three other pirates are the strongest four, eliminating one clearly means its replacement is not as powerful. If there are stronger pirates just sitting around, why are there only four emperors? Blackbeard is the obvious exception because he was powerdul enough to kill Whitebeard himself. Just for reiteration, Whitebeard nor Shanks were killed by marines, and leaving pirate emperors running around is completely inconsistent with "absolute justice."
So your contention is that if Blackbeard hadn't been there Whitebeard would still be alive?
I think the namechange thing was more of a joke more than anything. I doubt anyone seriously thinks Nami & co. had forsaken Luffy, it just made for a funny 180. Chopper and Nami most often comically fold when things really heat up–at least when retreat is an option.
You must've been reading something else, Two Piece fan fiction perhaps? Because in OP, BB did not take down WB by himself. Go re-read it yourself if you don't believe me.
But going on your other question, why didn't the Marines go after Shanks? I think the Marines were only prepared to take on one Yonkou force. Coupled with BB's treachery, the Hearts Pirates and Shanks' force sudden appearance, I think it would've been total chaos to fight on their home turf (which was being leveled in the war) against all these forces simultaneously. No new allies were suddenly joining the Marines side. So it would've been stacked against them. But you're right, odd that the Marines seem to be leaving the Yonkou to their own devices. Then again, as it remains, we only see the story following the SH crew and not other entities statuses in depth. So we don't know if the Marines are actively trying to take down the Yonkou.
The Marines may be trying to undermind the Yonkou, just as the Yonkou are trying to undermine eachother and the Marines, and the Shichibukai undermine whoever they feel like.
BUT I think the Gorusei oversee all this, and try to move their chess pieces (Marines and government forces, kinda the Shichi) in order to maintain a stalemate on all sides.
Obviously they wouldn't go up to the Marines and tell them "Don't actually take down the Yonkou". But they can make that happened behind the scenes.
I think their goal is to keep the whole world stagnate, so that no one gets to One Piece or figures out how to. To keep the status quo.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, they are a villainous neutral whose whole role in the story is as the guys sitting on top of Pandora's Box.
It still doesn't make any sense to me that Kizaru and Kuma basically disappeared for a good chunk of the battle. You'd think that they would be teleporting around and blowing shit up.
It still doesn't make any sense to me that Kizaru and Kuma basically disappeared for a good chunk of the battle. You'd think that they would be teleporting around and blowing shit up.
Perhaps they were, just in some other part of Marineford.
Like the outer ring with all the allied pirates.
One thing i noticed is that Doflamingo can only control 5 parts of a body, these include, head, two arms and two legs x2 (two hands)
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/199781/one-piece_ch724_by_powermanga/7
If you notice on this page Doflamingo is holding Sanji using, pinky and thumb for both legs, ring finger and index finger for arms and middle finger for head. So i would say it would take 3 people to take on Doflamingo, so Doflamingo does not trap two people and it's all over (because he has only two hands). Having the "string releaser" as a third person is valuable. But apparently only a "Novice" would get trapped by DD as stated by Jora. 3 vs 1 would be only if people didn't know how to not get trapped.
Also i have never seen Law being trapped (aka controlled) by DD. Hopefully he can share his tips.
But apparently only a "Novice" would get trapped by DD as stated by Jora.
Lolwut? When did she say that? Jozu's a novice now?
Lolwut? When did she say that? Jozu's a novice now?
Jozu is a beast and very strong but he is a novice to Doflamingo's powers, he has never fought with him before so he has no experience against it. It's like Ace was a Novice to BB's ability, Ace didn't know his power could suck the DF out of him temporarily.
And she says it on the same page, read the page on the link.