Who said Hancock heard it first hand? She wouldn't need to see Fisher climbing the red line to hear about it later. Its easily possible Hancock heard about who Fisher was and what he did after the event. Unless you think she was just hanging around the top of the red line for some reason and saw him coming up
Chapter 623: "The Pirate Fisher Tiger"
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
=/ Ok so that implies inconsistency in his character development but not contradiction or confusion in the story. It's quite clear that Tiger returned, told Jimbei and Arlong he was on a long journey when in face he was enslaved, then went to Neptune and told him what he witnessed. Later he returned to Marijoa and freed all the slaves. News spread of what happened. Otohime says they couldn't have stopped him that day. Tiger returns once again to Fishman Island, recruits Jimbei, Arlong, Marco, etc. and forms the Sun Pirates.
I don't think there's even inconsistency in his character as Tiger himself explained the reason he didn't tell Arlong and Jimbei. He didn't want ANYONE to know he was a slave.
As for why he'd ask Neptune's help but not the friends that were like his adopted children….I think that's pretty obvious. Ask for the help of an entire army for help....makes perfect sense. He would obviously want a lot of backup. However, Neptune turned him down. If Jimbei and Arlong were his friends...you really think he'd want to endager them by asking them to accompany him on a suicide mission to climbe the Red Line and directly attack Marijoa for the sake of a personal vendetta they had no connection with? To me, it's quite obvious why he took it upon himself and didn't tell anyone.
Knowing oda, what's more likely, Character development inconsistency or Story telling inconsistency.
If the fishman island army raises itself against the world goverment it would have raised hell on the world, WG attacking fishman island for retribution, Whitebeard would get involved for his territory getting attacked, every fishman on land persecuted, the yonkous taking advantage of WB's focus somewhere else and probably Shank's absence (Seriously, I need a global timeline). Neptune saw this, Fisher saw this, he knew that if he managed to push the royal army vs the world goverment, everyone that he ever knew and loved would be in danger, not just them.
Besides, this is One Piece, when do people do amazing and world changing things? When they are supported by their friends, or are forcefully separated from them.
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Wonderful chapter.
In the short time we've had to know him, Fisher's final words were really touching and profound.
Tragic but honest. I really respect him.
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You're making contradictions. There are none. You can think whatever you want about friends this, friends that, but you can't write in your own plot.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
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Tiger took over the Noah district when Jimbei, Arlong, etc. were young kids and protected them
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Tiger was an adventurer. He left to go on big adventures / journeys. 16 years ago, he returned from an especially long journey. Jimbei and Arlong commented on this when he got back. During this time Tiger was enslaved at Marijoa but managed to escape.
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He told them he had business and Ryuugu Palace. He went to Neptune and explained what he saw. He claimed to have witnessed "Humans", and Otohime wept upon hearing his story. However, they did not agree to assist him in raiding Marijoa.
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Tiger returned to Marijoa because he could not abandon the other slaves he saw there. Even Hancock commented that Tiger hated humans as a species, but freed the slaves indiscriminately.
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News broke out on Fishman Island of Tiger's amazing feat, climbing the Red Line and causing trouble and Marijoa single-handed. Tiger then formed the Sun Pirates and put his mark over the Hoof of the Celestial Dragon. Arlong, Jimbei, Macro, Hachi, Aladdin, Chu, Kuroobi, etc. joined up with Tiger to form the Sun Pirates and went on a rampage. Neptune and Otohime recall the meeting with Tiger before this event and Otohime states there was nothing they could have done to stop him.
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Hancock and her sisters fled from Marijoa and were rescued by Elder Nyon who returned them to Amazon Lily
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Koala ended up on an island far away from her home. The villagers handed her over to the Fishman Pirates and requested that Tiger bring her back to her hometown. They then informed the Marines so that they could ambush Tiger at Koala's village.
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In exchange for officially setting Koala free, the villagers agreed to allow Strawberry and his fleet to use their village in order to corner Tiger.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Look, even Jimbei says "by himself he launched an attack against the World Government and freed the slaves" and this is prior to the flashback, in the present, after Jimbei knew that Tiger was a slave:
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/83002268/16
"afterward he gathered the fishmen he freed and formed the Sun pirates"
This clearly did not happen when Tiger returned from his long journey, but later in the chapter after he spoke with Neptune and raided Marijoa. I don't know how you're explaining away the fact that he asked Neptune to help him before the raid…which would be impossible if he freed the slaves as he was escaping.
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@RobbyBevard:
Fishman Island should be a two year arc by all rights.
It looks like Oda is trying to avoid another Skypiea and to do it in one.
Which is a shame.
I've said it several chapters ago, that it looked like Oda was making things move too fast in this arc, and that I was with the impression that he didn't intend to make a long arc out of it… Nobody agreed with me at the time...
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I don't really want to delve into the whole timeline debate, since both possibilities seem open to me. I guess I'm slightly leaning towards him going back afterward, but weakly.
What I do want to say is that Aladdin and Macro don't look surprised enough to me about the news that Tiger was a slave.
This arc is still going to be long as hell.
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How does saying he launched an attack on Mariejois imply that he climbed the red line? It could just as easily mean he freed himself and then went berserk and launched an attack before going back to FI
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Aladin seems a bit….well too important. I think we're definitely gonna see more of him.
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If you can't explain something clearly, you don't understand it yourself. But I'll re-read the flashback, with a whiteboard, for analysis sake.
Do you want me to draw it for you?
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What I do want to say is that Aladdin and Macro don't look surprised enough to me about the news that Tiger was a slave.
Maybe they had their suspicions. We know that at least Aladdin was an ex-slave.
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All this talk of whether or not an arc is being rushed is rather perturbing me.
I am of the belief that you can't determione if an arc was rushed or drug out until it's over, as none of us have any idea where this arc is ultimately going. Oda may have another 50 chapters planned for this arc. If so, then this is the perfect pace.
If he only has 10 chapters left then yeah, this would be a little fast.
Also, I don't believe this flashback is being rushed either, as I don't believe Fisher Tiger was ever the main character of the flashback. I don't believe there is a main character for it, really.
Think, we still have to see what happened to Arlong and Jinbe, and we also have to learn what happened with Otohime. Oda could easily get another 3-4 chapters out of this making it a good 6-7 chapters, which is the perfect length for a flashback.
Seriously people, trust in Oda, the main knows what he's doing.
If anything is wrong with this arc it's the people on these boards who overhyped this arc to astounding proportions. No one is going to be more dissapointed with this arc than these people.
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Dude, Aladdin for next crewmember lo. Not really it's gonna be Caribou dur
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http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/35896723/4
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/35896723/5
It's quite obvious the events at the top of the second page and at the bottom are at different times. The transition from black to grey in the outline suggests a shift in time as Neptune asks "did he really do it?" and recalls their meeting. This meeting took place directly after Arlong and Jimbei greeted Tiger upon his return. Tiger is wearing the same shirt (Frog? No. Hippo).
At the top of the second page, Neptune is remembering the conversation with Tiger. The bottom of the page, he's still sitting on his throne, but Tiger is not in the room as it is AFTER Tiger's raid on Marijoa. This is when Otohime says there was nothing that could have been done to stop him.
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Earliest One Piece chapter ever!
If I remember correctly, this isn't the earliest, we used to get very early chapters during golden weeks in the old days, we have even had chapters of the WSJ released as early as the first week of the 2 weeks break of the end of the year… Good old days...
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Didn't expect this chapter but so happy it came out. Nice surprise after a long day at work.
Anyway I'm loving this flashback. Didn't see fisher tiger being a slave coming! thats Oda for ya! Great chapter! Hopefully 624 comes out Wednesday as usual ;) -
How does saying he launched an attack on Mariejois imply that he climbed the red line? It could just as easily mean he freed himself and then went berserk and launched an attack before going back to FI
He needed to climb the red line because he was on fishman island before assaulting Mariejois.Do you remember the scene where he was on Ryuguu's palace requesting Neptune's help to assault Mariejois?Now look at the bottom of this page: http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/28684017/16
It's the same scene where he was talking about 'humans', which happened AFTER his evasion from Mariejois and BEFORE his assault to that land - since he still was requesting help to execute the assault.
Since Mariejois is on the top of the red line and Tiger was on fishman island(which is located on the bottom of red line) BEFORE the assault, then…well... he needed to climb it. -
Look, the big problem here is that you're making an admittedly well-constructed inferential argument when all Oda really needed to do was say something explicit about his return to Mariejoa, especially if it really were as epic as his scaling the Red Line. But we don't have that, save for a statement from Hancock, which need not be viewed as infallible evidence. So, yes, you have made a compelling re-construction of the timeline that allows for the possibility, but it does not prove that it happened…yet. And that seems to be a limited indictment of Oda's storytelling in this arc, namely that it's taking quite a bit of work to establish the timeline (largely due to his holding the "Fisher Tiger slave" card close to his chest) and even then there are characterization issues at work against it.
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Yeah, I'm not seeing the pacing issues. The one chapter that skipped ahead 3 years in the flashback was a bit of a problem for me, but not this one. I really don't want to judge Fishman Island until it's done, anyway.
For me this is one of the best chapters we've had in months. Loved how Koala's smile got more "genuine." And yes, to see even Macro crying was very interesting/disturbing. There's tons more to say about this chapter but most of it has already been said.
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Ok, Otohime saying in 622 that they could not stop him makes it clear. The audience is before he relases the slaves.
The confusion comes because things that we see happening in this chapter contradicts things that we heard before, so it was worth checking it out.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Do you want me to draw it for you?
Vongola no 9 said it clearly, and I already checked it out. I admit that the long event is the correct one.
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Seriously people, trust in Oda, the main knows what he's doing
Oda isn't infallible. He is an author and authors make mistakes. This flashback is clearly an experimental design choice with it's broad focus and lightning round-esque presentation.
The thing about experiments is that they often don't work out, which is what's happening here. The flashback is jumping around at a rate that's rather uncomfortable for the reader and leads to a lot of confusion. If Oda had taken more time to lay out the framework for each event everything would be far more clear and have even more of an impact on us as readers.
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Look, the big problem here is that you're making an admittedly well-constructed inferential argument when all Oda really needed to do was say something explicit about his return to Mariejoa, especially if it really were as epic as his scaling the Red Line. But we don't have that, save for a statement from Hancock, which need not be viewed as infallible evidence. So, yes, you have made a compelling re-construction of the timeline that allows for the possibility, but it does not prove that it happened…yet. And that seems to be a limited indictment of Oda's storytelling in this arc, namely that it's taking quite a bit of work to establish the timeline (largely due to his holding the "Fisher Tiger slave" card close to his chest) and even then there are characterization issues at work against it.
That is ridiculous. How can things that the reader infers like Tiger's story being exaggerated hold more weight than the personal testimony of characters within the story like Boa Hancock?
What is most likely must always come directly from the story, not from reader's interpretation. You have to take into account all context clues from the story. You can't pick and choose.
Tiger's revelation that he was a slave has absolutely no bearing on the timeline. Oda would not introduce such confusion into the story. If this contradicted the previous story of him climbing the Red Line, then Oda would have stated that.
I actually am completely against the above post.
Let's look at the FACTS.
1 - Fisher Tiger was first mentioned by Boa Hancock as the one who climbed the Red Line and freed the slaves
2 - Hodi and his group heard a false story of Tiger's death, which adds fuel to the fire of their hatred
3 - Tiger was a great adventurer. He went on one particularly long journey. Just before his death, he reveals that on that journey he was actually enslavedYou claim that because it is not stated directly in the story that Tiger returned to Fishman island, then went back to Marijoa (something Oda obviously could not explain 3 chapters before it was revealed that Tiger was a slave…he could NOT have said that Tiger escaped slavery, went back to FI, then scaled the Red Line as he had not yet revealed that Tiger was a slave. He DID show us that Tiger requested Neptune's help. This is not deniable. It is clearly seen in the manga. We now know that Tiger was a slave so this could ONLY happen after escaping, thus there is NO OTHER explanation that makes sense), it is the readers making this up. Thus you say the facts previously stated by Hancock are instantly negated, and the more likely story is that Hancock somehow got the story wrong and heard the exaggerated tale of Tiger's exploits.
However, you are reading FAR more into Tiger's final words than is implied. Read carefully. Tiger explains that he was a slave. Just think about this for a minute. He never states that he freed the other slaves as he was escaping. Oda never implies this. This is INFERRED by the fans. Tiger never once mentions his story being exaggerated. This again, is INFERRED by the fans. It is not directly stated in the manga. It is in no way implied by Tiger's revelation. The fact that he was a slave has absolutely no bearing on the timeline, which is why Oda provided no further explanation.
You absolutely cannot take things inferred by the fans as being more credible than details directly stated or shown in the manga.
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Don't really know how accurate the translation is for this week chapter but Tiger said that he barely escape with his life so I don't think he dumb enough to go back while injured. He didn't go back to FI after freeing the slave.
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/58373218/17
again, I don't know how accurate that part is but it said that they couldn't stand by and watch him die so they gathered companion from Fishman District, there nothing there about Tiger telling them to join him.I think that Tiger didn't come back to FI after freeing the slave because Jinbei, Arlong, Macro and the rest of their fishman district companion leave FI and join Tiger on their own. -
you know what I'm still confused about…that one panel where Arlong tells Jimbei not to mess with unconscious humans. lol that's what doesn't make sense to me.
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I don't understand why the news didn't say a slave escaped and broke everyone out if that was the case..The rest of the world knows Fisher Tiger as the guy who climbed the Red line and freed a bunch of slaves right? so they had to get the news from the paper, and why would the paper say he broke in if he didn't?
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
That is ridiculous. How can things that the reader infers like Tiger's story being exaggerated hold more weight than the personal testimony of characters within the story like Boa Hancock?
What is most likely must always come directly from the story, not from reader's interpretation. You have to take into account all context clues from the story. You can't pick and choose.
Tiger's revelation that he was a slave has absolutely no bearing on the timeline. Oda would not introduce such confusion into the story. If this contradicted the previous story of him climbing the Red Line, then Oda would have stated that.
I actually am completely against the above post.
Let's look at the FACTS.
1 - Fisher Tiger was first mentioned by Boa Hancock as the one who climbed the Red Line and freed the slaves
2 - Hodi and his group heard a false story of Tiger's death, which adds fuel to the fire of their hatred
3 - Tiger was a great adventurer. He went on one particularly long journey. Just before his death, he reveals that on that journey he was actually enslavedYou claim that because it is not stated directly in the story that Tiger returned to Fishman island, then went back to Marijoa (something Oda obviously could not explain 3 chapters before it was revealed that Tiger was a slave…he could NOT have said that Tiger escaped slavery, went back to FI, then scaled the Red Line as he had not yet revealed that Tiger was a slave. He DID show us that Tiger requested Neptune's help. This is not deniable. It is clearly seen in the manga. We now know that Tiger was a slave so this could ONLY happen after escaping, thus there is NO OTHER explanation that makes sense), it is the readers making this up. Thus you say the facts previously stated by Hancock are instantly negated, and the more likely story is that Hancock somehow got the story wrong and heard the exaggerated tale of Tiger's exploits.
However, you are reading FAR more into Tiger's final words than is implied. Read carefully. Tiger explains that he was a slave. Just think about this for a minute. He never states that he freed the other slaves as he was escaping. Oda never implies this. This is INFERRED by the fans. Tiger never once mentions his story being exaggerated. This again, is INFERRED by the fans. It is not directly stated in the manga. It is in no way implied by Tiger's revelation. The fact that he was a slave has absolutely no bearing on the timeline, which is why Oda provided no further explanation.
You absolutely cannot take things inferred by the fans as being more credible than details directly stated or shown in the manga.
Er, I don't really care enough about this argument to devote too much more time to it, but a.)I actually don't think your argument is wrong, I'm just pointing out that there are some flaws in the storytelling that mean it is, in fact, based on inference, b.) I never made any claims that the counter-argument is not based on inference (my problem is not with the two arguments, it's with the fact that there are two reasonable arguments being made that both partially agree with the facts but run counter to each other), c.) the point you make about Oda not being able to be clear about Fisher Tiger being a slave earlier in the story is actually one of my main points, namely that he screwed the pooch by trying to hold that reveal off, and d.) I never negated Hancock's testimony, just pointing out that it's possible that her knowledge of the event is just as fallible as Hodi Jones and the gang's.
And your point at the end is quite in line with what I think is the big problem, namely that the SUPER-SECRET SLAVE REVEAL is actually more problematic than anything, since there should have been several opportunities before his deathbed speech for that information to get out, from the tattoos to other ex-slaves to the navy's knowledge of Fisher Tiger.
If it helps at all…
you know what I'm still confused about…that one panel where Arlong tells Jimbei not to mess with unconscious humans. lol that's what doesn't make sense to me.
We're in absolute agreement here.
Good work assembling your argument, mate.
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The point is that Human Memory isn't perfect, and after re-reading the previous chapter it is clear that after fisher escaped he asked neptune for help, then he went on his own to free the slaves with a dedication that Otohime could not hope to sway.
Before the re-read it was confusing to separate the 2 flasbacks of the royal chambers.
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It's highly likely that we'll get that flashback later.
The point is that there are 2 events:
Fisher frees himself, relases the slaves and escapes to Fishman Island to talk to neptune.
Fisher frees himself, escapes without raising a fuss, talks to neptune, climbs the red line, relases the slaves, goes back to fishman island.
Posibility 2 implies that fisher went to fishman island and didn't see his old family and went straight to neptune to ask for help, then when he got back just to visit his old family they say that they haven't seen him in a long time and inmediatly form the Sun Pirates to protect him.
Posibility 2 implies Tiger was willing to ask Neptune for help but not his family, that he was willing to risk all merkind and not his chilhood friends.
Posiblility 2 implies that Fisher went back to Fishman island to plan the Ballsiest thing that anyone has ever done in One Piece history and not say good bye or just talk to his friends.
It is very clear that Fisher Tiger, after witnessing slavery, spoke with Neptune PRIOR to freeing slaves.
Maybe the translation was too terrible to tell (since Mangastream even got who Tiger's lines were directed to WRONG), but it's obvious as hell in the Japanese.Timeline is as Vongola says. Fisher Tiger become a slave -> Escapes -> talks to Neptune -> Goes back to free slaves.
And no, Tiger never said "Join me!".
I swear that translator needs to be gone. He's made way too many mistakes every single chapter. -
Ah heh, yeah. Maybe some of the slightly out of character behavior with Alrong and Tiger is translator issues? But I did like this chapter very much.
-And a lot of people called it that Koala would be Tiger's downfall.
-I'm curious to see what happens with Arlong. Perhaps Jimbe makes a deal to be a Shichi in exchange?Maybe after Tiger Fred himself he went along breaking out the others too? That's what I had assumed once he revealed he was a slave. It's not an uncommon scenario.
Or what Aohige said lol..
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
However, you are reading FAR more into Tiger's final words than is implied. Read carefully. Tiger explains that he was a slave. Just think about this for a minute. He never states that he freed the other slaves as he was escaping. Oda never implies this. This is INFERRED by the fans. Tiger never once mentions his story being exaggerated. This again, is INFERRED by the fans. It is not directly stated in the manga. It is in no way implied by Tiger's revelation. The fact that he was a slave has absolutely no bearing on the timeline, which is why Oda provided no further explanation.
Shockingly enough, if you had read that page completely, you'll notice Tiger says "on my last voyage".
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It is very clear that Fisher Tiger, after witnessing slavery, spoke with Neptune PRIOR to freeing slaves.
Maybe the translation was too terrible to tell (since Mangastream even got who Tiger's lines were directed to WRONG), but it's obvious as hell in the Japanese.Timeline is as Vongola says. Fisher Tiger become a slave -> Escapes -> talks to Neptune -> Goes back to free slaves.
And no, Tiger never said "Join me!".
I swear that translator needs to be gone. He's made way too many mistakes every single chapter.Aohige has spoken.
End of Discussion.
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Wait where did it say that?
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/35896723/4
Bottom half of this page is all wrong btw…
Hell, I'll translate this page and the following so it makes sense.
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It is very clear that Fisher Tiger, after witnessing slavery, spoke with Neptune PRIOR to freeing slaves.
Maybe the translation was too terrible to tell (since Mangastream even got who Tiger's lines were directed to WRONG), but it's obvious as hell in the Japanese.Timeline is as Vongola says. Fisher Tiger become a slave -> Escapes -> talks to Neptune -> Goes back to free slaves.
And no, Tiger never said "Join me!".
I swear that translator needs to be gone. He's made way too many mistakes every single chapter.He has spoken! Now let it rest!
@ Mr 333 I seriously wasn't riding the wave of your statement there like so many of us on this thread do. I just took forever with my statement below.
Great flashback so far! I'm betting at least 2 more for the Queen, prefect length. I love seeing the humans reaction to Koala just casually hanging out with the fishmen while they go into town for supplies. And the little "which hand is which?" game Hatchi plays with Koala is pretty touching. Even during Arlong Park Hatchi always seemed like a nice guy. Love it!
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http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/35896723/4
Nearly half this page is wrong by the way….
Hell, I'll translate this page and the following so it makes sense.
Oh I thought you meant from this chapter. I thought I missed it or something.
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
you know what I'm still confused about…that one panel where Arlong tells Jimbei not to mess with unconscious humans. lol that's what doesn't make sense to me.
Kinda role reversal.
After 3 years, Jinbe has soften to humans. Whereas the treachery of Koala's townsfolk has probably added fuel to Arlong's now merciless rage. -
Mangastream makes so many mistakes, I'm just gonna have to learn Japanese just so I can understand One Piece (and so I can buy the Japanese volumes lol)
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I wonder if Arlong will hurt Koala next chapter. Better yet I wonder if Koala will over hear about FT's death, and maybe cause her to go out to see in the future!
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I'm actually really surprised I haven't seen any aladdin4nakama posts yet.
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bottom half of page 4
Ryuguu palace
Neptune: He really did it…!!
FLASHBACK to a scene
Neptune: You say you'll free the slaves!?
Tiger: I can't stand it...! Living the life of slave... is a living hell, is it not!?
Even now, they are suffering horrible inhumane acts on them... That's why I've decided!!page 5
Neptune: What exactly did you see in your last journey...!?
Tiger: I saw "Human"!!
(or "humanity", it'd go better with English)Otohime cries....
FLASHBACK IN THE FLASHBACK ENDS, time returns to after Tiger's assault on Mariejois
Neptune: Fishman Island's position in the world has gotten even worse... We won't be able to attend the "Reverie" for a while...
Otohime: But it was impossible to stop him on that day... The voices I heard from his heart were... screaming in pain
Neptune: !?There you go. Now you see how it makes perfect sense, and no confusion in timeline.
In retrospect, being master of CoO, it seems the Queen sensed Tiger's pain he spent in life of slavery.
She kept it to herself though, I'm sure, to honor Tiger's will. -
Thanks Aohige, that clears things up.
Also, reading the last page of the chapter, realized a couple of things; Arlong says "the island that reported him", so it would seem that on the way to deliver Koala, they stopped at an island (probably the one they bought the Eternal Pose of Fullshout Island from) and the people there contacted the Marines and/or the residents of Fullshout. Makes more sense now.
Also, as we see Kizaru's finger emitting smoke, I think it's safe to assume he had his Devil Fruit powers at that time.
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So Neptune didn't know that Tiger was a slave?
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We don't know. We can assume that Otohime did, but she may have kept that from Neptune.
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Good chapter.
Also glad it came so early.
But anyone have problems with MS not loading random chunkls of some pages ?
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My prediction is that the Tenryuubito ordered the marines to bring sun pirates to be their slaves, as revenge against Tiger for what he did, and Borsalino intends to bring Arlong to the Tenryuubito, but Jinbe will intervene and somehow make a deal with the WG to let Arlong and the other sun pirates go, and be free, in exchange for him becoming a Shichibukai… And that is how he ended considering himself responsible for Arlong's actions in East Blue, since it was thanks to him that Arlong was free to do what he did, and it was also thanks to him that even though the marines knew about his evil doings, they didn't do a thing against Arlong, because of the deal Jinbe made with the WG.
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My prediction is that the Tenryuubito ordered the marines to bring sun pirates to be their slaves, as revenge against Tiger for what he did, and Borsalino intends to bring Arlong to the Tenryuubito, but Jinbe will intervene and somehow make a deal with the WG to let Arlong and the other sun pirates go, and be free, in exchange for him becoming a Shichibukai… And that is how he ended considering himself responsible for Arlong's actions in East Blue, since it was thanks to him that Arlong was free to do what he did, and it was also thanks to him that even though the marines knew about his evil doings, they didn't do a thing against Arlong, because of the deal Jinbe made with the WG.
Does he have the renown yet though? As far as we know his bounty is still 76 mill, unless he worked his way up to 250 since then. I doubt it, since he was only a second mate at that point and fisher's bounty would need to be significantly higher.
I'm looking forward to finding out the circumstance.
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bottom half of page 4
Ryuguu palace
Neptune: He really did it…!!
FLASHBACK to a scene
Neptune: You say you'll free the slaves!?
Tiger: I can't stand it...! Living the life of slave... is a living hell, is it not!?
Even now, they are suffering horrible inhumane acts on them... That's why I've decided!!page 5
Neptune: What exactly did you see in your last journey...!?
Tiger: I saw "Human"!!
(or "humanity", it'd go better with English)Otohime cries....
FLASHBACK IN THE FLASHBACK ENDS, time returns to after Tiger's assault on Mariejois
Neptune: Fishman Island's position in the world has gotten even worse... We won't be able to attend the "Reverie" for a while...
Otohime: But it was impossible to stop him on that day... The voices I heard from his heart were... screaming in pain
Neptune: !?There you go. Now you see how it makes perfect sense, and no confusion in timeline.
In retrospect, being master of CoO, it seems the Queen sensed Tiger's pain he spent in life of slavery.
She kept it to herself though, I'm sure, to honor Tiger's will.Thank you so much for this, Aoihige. When I read that chapter last week I thought the translation made no sense so I was convinced it was a mistake, but I couldn't find an alternative translation. This makes a lot more sense now.
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@Mr.:
Does he have the renown yet though? As far as we know his bounty is still 76 mill, unless he worked his way up to 250 since then. I doubt it, since he was only a second mate at that point and fisher's bounty would need to be significantly higher.
I believe he does… But it is also possible that Arlong lived some time as a slave, and Jinbe had to work his way up to reach the status necessary to become a Shichibukai, and only then he made the deal and Arlong was freed.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Thank you so much for this, Aoihige. When I read that chapter last week I thought the translation made no sense so I was convinced it was a mistake, but I couldn't find an alternative translation. This makes a lot more sense now.
I've just opened the mangahelpers website, and Cnet is back!!! :D
I'm going to post the links of the translations in the respective topics of the chapters…
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EDIT, forgot quote >_<
Oda isn't infallible. He is an author and authors make mistakes. This flashback is clearly an experimental design choice with it's broad focus and lightning round-esque presentation.
The thing about experiments is that they often don't work out, which is what's happening here. The flashback is jumping around at a rate that's rather uncomfortable for the reader and leads to a lot of confusion. If Oda had taken more time to lay out the framework for each event everything would be far more clear and have even more of an impact on us as readers.
But you're assuming that he's not laying out the framework right now. I'm convinced that this flashback is focused on, if anyone, Otohime, as even when Tiger was dying he brought it back to Otohime.
I personally don't believe that we were ever really meant to connect with Tiger too much. If oda had intended us to, then he would have spent more time building his character. Tiger, while still playing a crucial part is nothing more than a minor character in this flashback with Otohime, Jinbe, and Arlong all being more important than him.
And of course Oda isn't infallible, but he can still know what he's doing.
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Daaaw Koala is holding Boss Tai's hand. Cute~
Good thing we have people like Aohige around otherwise I'd have no clue what was happening. I've never before been this confused while reading One Piece. As far as flashbacks go, it's definitely not my favorite, though we have been getting lots of info to be sure. I guess it's not exactly a pacing issue so much as poor story telling on Oda's part. Not that the whole arc has been bad by any means. There were some good scenes
except chapter 609.I sure hope that off-screened fight was more than Tai getting shot because I have a hard time believing he died from bullets alone. First off, the marines should have shot themselves more than him, and since when do people get killed so easily by bullets in this series. Besides that random bandit from the first chapter. And Bellemere… If Tai had just charged forward, he shouldn't have had difficulty breaking through those ranks and maybe gotten away with a few bullet wounds, but certainly not enough to make him bleed to death. Unless Strawberry (damn I love his hair btw) fought too. Which I guess there was no time at all to even imply just a teensy bit even though that would have made that scene feel more believable. I probably just missed it cuz his hair is far too distracting. Yeah. I'm sure that's it.